Amway And Gambling?

This blog post is not about comparing Amway to a game of chance. Rather it is the common thread that hooks people and keeps them involved. Why does Amway appeal to some people despite the overwhelming odds? I believe it's the same reason why people enjoy gambling and what keeps people hooked on both. Like gambling, the Amway opportunity (the way it is often presented) represents "HOPE". Hope it why people buy a lottery ticket. Hope is often the reason why people gamble as well. One pull on a slot machine could result in millions. Amway is not a game of chance but it represents hope. As a young prospect, my sponsor would ask how else any of us could become rich or millionaires? The answer was zilch. My sponsor would say that the Amway business represented our "best" chance.

Everyone needs hopes and dreams. It's what keeps most people going. Without hope, many people are susceptible to depression or they may begin to wonder what the purpose of their life is. In some instances where people take their own lives, is it common for that person to have lost hope. Without any hope for better things or a better life, they give up and may do the unthinkable and take their own lives.

Where I believe some Amway leaders are scum is when they give people false hopes and dreams and sue it to profit handsomely likely knowing that their downline will never profit in the business. I've heard from some former pins who had witnessed some of the bigger pins making jokes about the dreamers in the audience who keep coming to seminars but will never make it. These folks want success so badly that they literally have tears in the eyes. They will work the business hard but they won't make it. The system is designed to have a few successes with many participants. A good example is the common
6-4-2 plan where all 79 IBOs moved enough volume to earn a bonus, yet only one platinum is created from that volume. The rest, if on the system of cds, seminars and books will likely operate at a net loss despite doing the right things and putting in the effort. It's just really sad to know that so many people have big hopes and dreams that will never be fulfilled.

Some groups of diamonds will display a "diamond lifestyle" showing off golf trips, fabulous vacations, mansions, cars and jet skis. Do all of this with no job and the money is unlimited and keeps rolling in. This is what some groups will portray as the goal for many young and newbie IBOs. They'll says things like "anyone" can do it. While anyone can do it, anyone can also win the lottery or anyone can make million in Las Vegas. No, Amway is not gambling, but the representation of "hope" is often what attracts people to gambling, Las Vegas, and Amway.

Amway IBOs Deny The Reality?

One thing that appears to be quite common among Amway IBOs is how IBOs are in denial. They truly believe that their uplines are working in their best interest and that upline wants their success. I don't believe that to be true. If uplines were truly making a fortune from Amway, why would an downline IBO have to pay for practically every bit of help they get from upline leaders? Most IBOs are not aware that their sponsor should be training them free of charge.

To show the plan, you would need to pay to attend an open meeting, and pay for your guests, even if they do not register as a result of the presentation. You pay for voicemail to communikate with your upline and downlines. You pay for standing orders and you may end up paying twice if you were in attendance at the function when the standing order was recorded. You pay for books and other materials as well.

What's more, many IBOs turn their heads when ugly facts rear their heads. For example, some IBOs deny that a prominent triple diamond was involved in bankruptcy proceedings. They continue to edify and pay for financial advice from someone who could not even manage his own finances. They believe that Amway saves marriages even when the leaders who speak this may be getting divorced. It's like upline simply revises history and downlines buy it without question. Many IBOs do not even see it as a problem that some upline boldy lied and said there were no profits from tools in the past. I find this odd because tool profits are still shrouded in secrecy and downline simply believe that they will eventually get a cut, even without a written compensation plan and agreement.

I believe too many IBOs are simply in denial. They give upline their trust and upline abuses it. IBOs are told they are successful for attending a function even when they might be losing money month after month. They may be told that the Amway business is not about money but about making friends. They may be told that they are nicer people because of their participation in Amway. What too many IBOs do not see is that they are in denial about their business. Most IBOs are losing money, a little at a time, perhaps $100 or $150 a month. For the hardcore, maybe more. But they are taught to ignore these simple facts and deny that there is a problem.

It is my hope that exposure of some of these tactics will be beneficial to information seekers and perhaps new IBOs who have not yet been fully indoctrinated. I encourage people to ask tough questions, demand answers and use due diligence when checking out this oppportunity. The fact is that very few people every make a profit and people should know this before getting involved. Don't deny the obvious.

Getting "Paid" In Amway?

One of the major reasons why I think Amway is not such a good opportunity is because of the unfair multi tiered compensation plan. I have heard that Amway pays out about 30-33% of the gross to their IBOs, but I find it unfair in that you get rewarded for sponsoring people who move volume more than you do for actually selling products. I believe this is why so many IBOs are desperately trying to sponsor people and in some cases, deception and trickery is used in recruiting, which contributes to Amway's bad reputation. This also explains a lack of emphasis on actual retail sales of products to non IBOs. Some groups still adhere to the "buy from yourself" philosophy, which focuses on personal use and not on sales.

This multi tiered compensation plan also rewards a few people at the expense of the masses. If an IBO works really hard and sold/used 100 PV worth of goods, that IBO would get $9 or $10 in a bonus from Amway (plus any retail profits)and layers of upline would split up about $90. I fail to see how that is fair, especially when IBOs seemingly say "do the work and get paid". In this case, you do the work and your uplines get paid.

I think Amway would be more efficient by giving all IBO's 20-25% back as a bonus, with the remaining 8-13% in bonus (33 - 20 or 25) going to certain levels of achievers. I believe that this would truly allow someone to change their buying habits and gain some value. It would also be good for retention of IBOs because a 100 PV would get you a monthly bonus of about $60. If you sold 100 PV to customers, you would get the retail profit plus the bonus. I believe there would be less of an emphasis on sponsoring and more of an emphasis on selling. It would put less pressure on IBO's to recruit and sponsor, and I believe that Amway's reputation could be repaired in this manner. While you would have less emphasis on "going diamond", those who did achieve it could still get handsome bonuses.

I believe implementation of this type of compensation would also eliminate the endless need for cds and seminars. Sure, product expos and some teaching on salesmanship might help, but I believe that compensating the "majority" of IBOs would keep them interested in doing business and would lessen the need for tools. I believe this is a win-win for the majority of those in the business.

I'm sure some Amway apologists will find fault in my line of reasoning, but I believe this is a long term sustainable solution for Amway. Comments are welcome.

"Walking Away" From Amway?

One of the things that many IBOs mistakenly believe is that they will build their Amway business (once) and then they will have the ability to "walk away" from the business while the income continues to flow in. I believe if there was such an incredible benefit such as lifelong residual income that could be achieved from Amway, I'm fairly certain that Amway would advertise this as a benefit of being an IBO. But Amway does not. It is very likely that your LOS such as WWDB or one of the others will promote this benefit while telling you that your bext chance to achieve it is by subscribing to their "system".

One thing that goes unnnoticed all too often is that there seems to be nobody who is actually retired and living off the efforts of having built a big Amway business once upon a time. Seems that even the crown ambassadors still have busy lifestyles running from function to function and participating in other business related activities. While many of these leaders may claim they love their downlines or some other bunk, it is my belief that these leaders keep working their Amway businesses for one reason only. That is they need to keep working in order to keep the income flowing in.

The diamond lifestyle that is often portrayed may seem like a great goal or dream to achieve, but the fact of the matter is that a "diamond lifestyle" cannot be sustained on diamond income. The average diamond, according to Amway, earns about $150,000 a year. While that may seem like a great amount of income, it's not nearly enough to sustain the kind of lifestyle portrayed by diamonds. Even if that income is supplemented by income from the sale of tools, you can't fly your family around the country first class to do all kinds of functions and still end up with much leftover to own fancy homes and cars.

If I deposited $1000 in the bank and never touch the money, the bank would pay me a certain amount of interest each year, guaranteed. That is residual income. In Amway, you can basically earn income in two ways. You can sell products for a profit, but there are problems with this. First off, Amway products in general are more expensive than local retailers. It is why you hear so many justifications about quality and concentration, because you are hard pressed to argue cost. Secondly, you are severely restricted from advertising, thus selling can be difficult. The other way to generate more income is to build a downline in hopes that the downline will help you to leverage your volume. But then your downline will have the same problem that you had in moving products. That being said, even if you achieve some level such as emerald or diamond, your business will immediately begin to fall apart once you stop working because attrition will take its toll. It is why there are hoards of "former" platinums. If platinums are not sustainable, then neither is any other level.

There are many many instances of diamonds quitting, resigning, or falling out of qualification. People come and go in this business every day. Do you really think you can bank on retirement and residual income under these circumstances? If you believe that, I have some swamp land in Florida to sell you.

Amway IBOs Make More Excuses Than Money?

Not counting IBOs who sign up and never do a thing with the Amway business, I would guess that a typical business building IBO spends several months at 100 PV, earning $10 a month, and spending some money on functions and other support materials, thus ending up with a net loss in running their business. What I have also observed is that these new IBOs are often the most fierce defenders of the Amway opportunity. What is amusing is their defense of Amway, because they aren't knowledgeable enough about the business and cannot back up claims of being profitable. You can usually recognize these folks as they stand out like a sore thumb.

A common defense is to attack someone's job. Oftentimes, I will hear that my job is a pyramid, or that the social security system is a ponzi scheme. What they fail to understand is that people with jobs have a net gain of income at the end of the month, unlike a typical IBO. Also, even if my job was a pyramid, that doesn't have any relevence as to whether the Amway opportunity is also a (legal) pyramid. And the same goes for social security. But although I find some faults with the social secuiry system, they have not yet failed to pay benefits to anyone who has paid in, as far as I know.

One of my favorite conversations is when an IBO, probably in frustration with facing the facts, will state that they have been in Amway for a month and they are already earning in excess of $5000 a month. Sure it's possible I suppose, just as it's possible for lightning to strike the same spot three times in a row. These IBOs are often the "drive by" commentors who never show up again. I recently had a conversation with an IBO who swore that he was earning $1000 a month in Amway, but refused to discuss what level he was at, or whether he made any actual sales, or had downline. He later asked for my email address and when finally supplied with it, he ended up blocking me from further contacting him.

I just wonder why upline leaders would teach such nonsense to downline, or whether downline simply wants to deceive others about their status in Amway? I mean it's really no big deal if a newbie IBO isn't making a lot of money. In fact that is expected when you are new. But I believe IBOs to some degree, might still be taught the old "fake it till you make it" theory that existed back when I was still an IBO some years ago. The concept was to fake success as a means to entice prospects until you actually made some progress in the business. Sadly, most IBOs never ever sponsor a downline, get discouraged and quit. I can't blame them when most IBOs who build the business suffer a financial loss, ironically it is usually from purchasing training materials that may have been promoted as the key to your success.

The sad result of all this is that "most" IBOs make more excuses than dollars.

Amway Your Way To Retirement?

One of the things upline leaders apparently do is to disparage people with jobs. Oh, they would say we needed people to wait on our tables and clean our toilets, but in general, jobs were put down and basically the group was told that Amway is their best chance at achieving financial freedom, giving them the ability to flush their jobs. Ironically, IBO's jobs are what funds their Amway businesses. Most IBOs would be out of business within weeks if not for their job income funding their Amway businesses.

The key selling point appears to be the 2-5 years of part time work rather than working a job for 30 - 40 years and then retiring on social security which may or may not be there when you retire. This plants a fear in people about the future and then the Amway opportunity is presented in a positive light because the Amway opportunity comes with a low start up cost. What uplines do not mention is how the opportunity can become a money pit as the monthly defacto 100 PV quota starts to add up. It is my guess that if people only bought items they truly needed, these IBOs would likely move 100 PV every three months, unless they are actively selling goods to non IBO customers.

When an IBO finally agrees to register, it is then that the hidden costs are revealed. Many uplines will introduce standing orders and functions and present these tools as vital to IBO success. Most new IBOs don't know better and feel subtle pressure to conform and give it a try. Some upline may loan some tools to downline in the beginning but evemtually, the IBO will be encouraged to be a "serious" business owner who should be purchasing their own tools to loan to their downline and the cycle goes on.

If you examine some version of the Amway recruitment plan, you will see that most IBOs are at the 100 PV level, which will reward you with a monthly bonus of about $10or so. If that same IBO subscribes to the tools system, than IBO will likely be losing over $100 a month not including the product purchases. And because many IBOs have been convinced that working a job is so horrible, that they can be convinced that this condition of losing money is temporary and that untold wealth is right around the corner. Sadly, for most, this condition is the norm and even the sponsorship of a few downline, the losses continue to mount. Yet many are convinced that this is better than a job.

Ironically, a job allows people to pay their monthly bills, feed their families and many people enjoy their work and co workers. While upline leaders may convince you otherwise, it is this very same excuse upline leaders use when asked why they are still working instead of walking the beaches of the world collecting massive amounts of residual income. I would encourage IBOs to truly analyze their efforts in Amway and determine if it is beneficial to your finances. In most cases, your Amway efforts ONLY benefits your upline's finances. For most who get involved, the Amway opportunity is not better than a job. Be careful!

Financial Freedom In 8-12 Hours A Week?

One of the myths that my upline used to, and likely still perpetuate is the claim that you can build an Amway mega empire on 8-12 hours per week. I'm venturing an educated guess that this number is used because while it still represents time, it is probably less hours than working a part time job. It's also not overly imposing for someone who has a job and/or kids. But let's take a closer look at this 8-12 hours per week.

If you listen to one (1) cd per day as recommended by upline and read one of their "success" books 15 minutes each day, you're already close to nine hours of time used in the week and neither of these activities produces any income for your Amway business. In fact, both activities cost you money and produce no tangible result. If you spend another 15 minutes a day contacting people, you are close to 12 hours per week. Where will you find additional time to show the plan and to expand your name and contact list? What about finding and servicing customers, at least for IBOs who actually may have some customers?

What about attending meetings and functions? These are also non income producing activities. It's no wonder the vast majority of IBOs don't make any money. Their upline has them running around participating in activities that produce no income for their businesses. Ironically, there non income producing activities such as listening to a cd, or attending functions, produces a lot of income for certain iplines who produce and sell them. To me, it is just an elaborate game of bait and switch played by upline.
You sell the dreams and hopes and then tell the downline that the key to success is in the training. While often undetected, the hopeful IBOs end up getting systematically drained of their resources pursing the Amway dream that will not materialze.

You sell the prospect the dream of financial freedom. You tell that that Amway is their best or only chance. You tell them that you can help them and that the tools of the business (standing order, voicemail, books, functions) are the keys to their success. Those who are serious enough to commit to the system likely won't quit without making some effort and will allow uplines to earn some nice profits before these downline eventually realize they aren't profitable and quit. Because many IBos are sponsored by family and friends, you don't see too many formal complaints about the business. Most people chalk it up as a life lesson and do not complain. Many who quit are simply ashamed about being suckered and they disappear never to be heard from again.

But IBOs and information seekers, do not be fooled into thinking that you will create a financial empire by working 8-12 hours a week. It's just not going to happen.

Amway IBOs In Denial?

One thing that appears to be common among Amway IBOs is how IBOs are in denial. They truly believe that their uplines are working in their best interest and that upline wants their success. I don't believe that to be true. If uplines were truly making a fortune from Amway, why would an downline IBO have to pay for practically every bit of help they get from upline leaders? Why are there endless numbers of cds and meetings at cost, to learn to buy and sell, and to recruit others. Is Amway that complicated that IBOs mist be continually trained or is it because uplines make the most profits fromt tools? I believe the tools are one of, of not the biggest profit center for upline.

To show the plan, you would need to pay to attend an open meeting, and pay for your guests, even if they do not register as a result of the presentation. You pay for voicemail to communikate with your upline and downlines. You pay for standing orders and you may end up paying twice if you were in attendance at the function when the standing order was recorded. You pay for books and other materials as well. And there is no end. If you are in Amway for ten years, you would get ten years worth of this material. If you are in for thirty years, you would get thirty years of this material.

What's more, many IBOs turn their heads when ugly facts rear their heads. For example, some IBOs deny that a prominent triple diamond was involved in bankruptcy proceedings. They continue to edify and pay for financial advice from someone who could not even manage his own finances. They believe that Amway saves marriages even when the leaders who speak this may be getting divorced. It's like upline simply revises history and downlines buy it without question. Many IBOs do not even see it as a problem that some upline boldy lied and said there were no profits from tools in the past. I find this odd because tool profits are still shrouded in secrecy and downline simply believe that they will eventually get a cut, even without a written compensation plan and agreement.

I believe too many IBOs are simply in denial. They give upline their trust and upline abuses it. IBOs are told they are successful for attending a function even when they might be losing money month after month. They may be told that the Amway business is not about money but about making friends. They may be told that they are nicer people because of their participation in Amway. What too many IBOs do not see is that they are in denial about their business. Most IBOs are losing money, a little at a time, perhaps $100 or $150 a month. For the hardcore, maybe more. But they are taught to ignore these simple facts and deny that there is a problem. They cling to hopes that success is right around the corner or that they will succeed if ony they will never quit. Most of this advice only serves the upline and not the IBOs. It is a sad thing.

It is my hope that exposure of some of these tactics will be beneficial to information seekers and perhaps new IBOs who have not yet been fully indoctrinated. I encourage people to ask tough questions, demand answers and use due diligence when checking out this opportunity. The fact is that very few people every make a profit and people should know this before getting involved. Don't deny the obvious. If the details don't add up, keep researching. The interenet is chock full of information about Amway. This website is just one source, but look high and low before committing your time and money. The fact is that less than 1% of IBOs make any money out of this opportunity. Don't deny the undeniable. Get the facts and act on them!

Amway Tools Don't Work?

Based on my experience in Amway, my blogging experience, and observation of other people who give financial advice such as real estate gurus who teach you to buy property with no money down, or others such as Robert Kiyosaki for that matter, all show testimonials of sucessful people. Obviously they do not show you the vast majority of people who try their systems and fail. They will show you "best case scenarios" of people who may have made some money with their "systems". What is not shown is how sustainable that income is, and whether these folks actually made money as a direct result of the system or whether they were simply lucky and a statistical anomaly. What they don't show is the vast majority of rank and file prospects, who may have put in just as much or more effort than the "successful" ones, only to end up with a loss.

It is my informed opinion that whether it is Amway, WWDB, BWW, N21, real estate or the cashflow business, the vast majority of people who try these systems do not make any kind of significant income. Sure, some do, and those are shown as the possibilities. But if you watch infomercials, you will see in small print on the bottom of the screen, "unique experience", your results may vary. I believe that a similar message used to be at the end of Amway diamond recordings as well. Part of the issue I see is these systems and tools really do not work and these gurus and leaders get rich off the backs of those they promote to. Have any of these folks been held accountable for the results of their followers? Surely such a tiny success rate cannot be completely the failure of motivated and eager students to spend time and money to learn?

These systems in general do not work for various reasons. Many people simply do not have the acumen to work the system. Or the system has too many variables for the system to work, or the system calls for things beyond your control. For example, success in Amway generally requires you to sponsor others, something that is beyond the control of most people. Add in the lazy and people who are hopng for a quick score and it is understandable that most will fail. But these systems are often set up where the majority simply cannot all succeed. Nowhere is that more true than the Amway business where the pyramidal compensation plan nearly guarantees failure for the lower level IBOs. In the common 6-4-2 plan, there are a total of 79 IBOs and only 1 is a platinum. And that has the faulty assumption that all 79 IBOs in the group did enough work and volume to earn a bonus. The reality will always be much worse than the plan illustrates.

So what can someone do? Well, it may no be as sexy or convenient, but a part time job and investing and saving might be something to think about. Even a part time business where you focus on selling products for a profit might work. It just seems prudent to avoid these "systems" as the primary beneficiary of these "systems" are the ones who directly profit from them. Try asking some of these leaders how much they make from the system versus their income from Amway or something similar. I bet you won't get a straight answer!

Testimony From A WWDB Prospect

I just received this comment from a prospect who was invited to see the plan by a WWDB IBO. The person giving the testimony took time to learn the details about Amway and WWDB and in doing research, found my blog and contact information. I was emailed this commentary which gives great insight into Amway and in particular, WWDB. Note the emphasis on tools and WWDB expenses:

Hi Joecool,

Not sure if ya want to share this in your stories or not, but I just thought I would share my Amway qual meeting exp. with you.

I started thinking about doing something from home as a "supplement" to my current work from home business. I run a wonderfully successful daycare/preschool program for 1-5 year olds and it grosses me $3500.00-4000.00/month not including my legit tax write offs to Canada Revenue. (I mention this as it is a key part of my story) As well I get a great tax return each tax year!

Now, when I started looking into Amway it was because my friends are IBO's and I wanted to "help them succeed." When I googled it I got a handful of good reviews, but most of them talked about sinking $$ into it, and getting next to nothing back...

I am of the small business self employed mindset so I dismissed it at first as others not wanting to do the work so I went to my second BP. (Board Plan) It was a charasmatic couple talking about how mom "finally got to retire and stay home with her baby, and see all of the baby's milestones....." yack yack. And, they claimed they were able to do this is 3 years and that the man of the duo was 2 years away from doing the same thing... Sure great. (Laird and Alysha Dyck)

But how did you do that? How did you generate leads for your business? How do you make this sustainable? What kind of profit are you looking at? (ballpark) What sort of upfront costs are there? (As I know in starting some businesses have startup costs)

When I asked these questions and told the upline that this is needed to start a successful business I was given a "cold hand shake" and told that this would be answered in my nuts and bolts meeting, I just came from it today.....

AND HONESTLY.....

This asshat dismissed my daycare business as small and "not living the dream" When in reality though I am not a gazillionare we live in a nice home, and live quite comfortably (again not driving mazzorotie's (sp) or anything) my husband also works full time in Network Operations at a local telephone co.

But we aren't living the dream!!! Whatabuncha bull!!!! At least I am using my degree, and we both (my hubby and I) take pride in what we do. But we aren't living the dream. (WTF)???

The only reason I looked into Amway was because of my friends, and because I wanted extra income to pay off student debt. As well as credit cards.

In today's nuts and bolts the guy admitted that they don't want people buying cleaning products they want costumers buying Nutralite, Artistry, and big "PV BV" products. He also admitted that he lives off of his tax return at the end of the year, and that he and his wife still work ft...Not only that he said he ditched a family wedding to attend "dreamnight" because they were dedicated and wanted to do everything right. WTF is wrong with this douche??

All this in front of IBO's in the last steps of the process????? Not a once did they tell you how to be a success as an IBO, instead they went on and on about CD's and WW, (World Wide) and the spring confrence (sp) thing....

OMFG.....

I pulled them aside and told them that if this is what they wanted from me that I'd be fucking running out the door, and that they can kiss my business savvy $$ making ass goodbye..Surprisingly I was told they wanted to give me an offer!

JUST AN FYI people those CD's will teach you NOTHING ABOUT RUNNING A BUSINESS NOTHING. They are braging about how rich they are; nothing more nothing less; if you chose to get involved with amway, though I doubt you would after reading this....DON'T BUY INTO THE BRAINWASHING SHIT!! And don't let them make you feel like shit for working a JOB THAT EARNS YOU A RELIABLE PAYCHECK!!

BECAUSE IF THEY ARE TRULY HONEST WITH YOU THEY ARE NOT RETIRED from the jobs they work just for Amway...They are still 9-5’ers...or something close to that.
The follow up to my Amway qual exp. so I guess it made sense to post it here, as I am now seeing that Amway IBO's are angry control oriented weirded out freaks....

In my post last evening I had mentioned how they knocked me for "my small business sense" that really got and continues to get my back up...

Today at my last qual meeting my "potential upline" outlined costs associated "with the Amway dream." And. seriously I almost crapped my pants. (The costs in Canada)

An annual cost of $67.00

(for my amway business lic.) AHAHAAHAA seriously?? You are a comissioned sales rep in all reality (not to sound like I am watering it down, and you have to pay for comissions??)

A one time cost of $100.00 (for the starter pack)

And the monthly costs:

Premier Membership $50.00 (Access to retail website, and training website)

WWDB $25.00

Communikate: $50.00

"Tools" $15.00 (Extra CD's for prospects books etc)

And the sometimes costs:

Dreamnight: $75.00

Board Plans $10.00/PER PLAN/PER IBO

Major Function Tickets $125.00-200.00 (Canada functions only US ones are more expensive) this does not include hotel, meals, travel, NADA.

Each black box info system is $30.00 (the one they give potential IBO's at the time that they express interest)

This seems like a lot of "nothing" to me...realistically you need access to your retail website email, and that's it.... All the other junk is not needed, and if you have any business saavy what so ever you'll know how to market yourself anyway...

I told them that my small business is quite successful (my home daycare and preschool) to which they said that they were different, and that I needed to stop comparing them.... Really though ways to market yourself comes with EVERY BUSINESS.... but what do I know?? I am just the small minded retard who knows nothing...I need Amway CD's to help me think and do right? (Sarcasm)

You are looking at an annual cost for the monthly stuff of,*drum roll please* $1800.00 and about $2300.00 for functions.

When I told them that paying for WWDB wasn't something I could do right now, as well as the other tools, I was told "Oh that's okay some of us are meant to be small busineses, and others are meant to have IBO's under them, taking this seriously."

REALLY??

You are going to try to bully me into this??? I quipped back, "I take all business opportunities seriously, but I am not going to default on my mortgage payment, utilities, etc to make this "dream come true"!!"

I also stated that "I understand that there are business costs associated w/ every business, but I will do this when and if I am ready to do so, and only on my terms and within my budget..."

I then got "Well perhaps ****** and ****** can sit down with you and go through a budget so Amway obligations can work for you." To which I said an emphatic "No thank you I have my own accountant, and I already have a spread sheet of my obligations, and only my husband and I are privy to that."

During this coffee meeting I was also told some pretty bizarre things about what I could and could not wear to anything Amway related..How I had to talk to upliine wives only, and how we didn't ever want to "mess with marriages and how we always put marriages first."

Since it was a man who introduced me to Amway's business anyway..I snap, "so I can never talk to ******? Is that what you are telling me?" And they said "No, but anything Amway..or Amway related must go through ******* at all times (the wife).

Are you kidding???

Interestingly enough they still want to make me an offer....I suppose they thought I was an easy aim because of the fact that I am a wheelchair user.

What whack jobs!!!

I did have a question though if you just simply sold product here and there without getting all this other junk is it worth it?

Thanks so much

What Happens To An Amway IBO After A Few Months?

I send this message to inform IBOs tha they should be aware of their circumstances in business. What I mean is when you are a new IBO, it is common for you to buy/sell your 100 PV, and perhaps listen to some cds. If you basically did what your sponsor or upline advised, you made your 100 PV bonus level and you will receive a bonus from Amway for about $10. If you did as advised by your upline/sponsor, then you likely made a namelist and started contacting some potential business partners aka prospects. You're probably a bit excited because things are going as you expected. You did your part and a bonus is on it's way to your doorstep. Heck, you may have even sponsored a friend or relative because of your newly found excitement and enthusiasm.

But what happens after a few months? If you are still doing 100 PV and have no downline, then what are the chances that you will ever achieve anything? Your excitement is wearing off and now the Amway opportunity is becoming "work". You are also starting to notice that it is starting to get expensive to continue to purchase products, many of which you never purchased before. For example, were you buying cases of energy drinks and "high end" vitamins before Amway? Did you buy $50 cases of bottled water before Amway? Supposedly their laundry soap and other cleaners are highly concentrated, therefore your consumables are the nutrition/vitamin products.

Even if you managed to find some downline, are they duplicating what you do? Are they also moving volume and sponsoring downline? If not, what are your chances of fulfilling the 6-4-2 plan or some similar version of it. When I saw the plan, I thought it was reasonable and I was on my way to platinum. What I discovered though, is that as you progress, upline has greater expectations of you and that includes more tool purchases. (I was in WWDB). In the end, my recommended tool purchases ate up any profits I had and at the 4000 level, I was just about breaking even, which means I was at a loss when factoring in my time spent and other miscellaneous expenses such as gas money.

Where are you at? If you're been in for more than a year, are you on schedule to become platinum or are you at 200 PV with one downline? Maybe you have a small group with 600 PV? You still aren't close to a net profit. For the vast majority of people, success is not right around the corner. What's around the corner for most is more time lost, more money expended, and no progress. If your group is now growing each and every month, you are sliding backwards. If you don't constantly have new IBOs coming into the group, you are probably stagnant. With about half of IBOs dropping out each year, keeping a group together is a tremendous task.

IBOs, where are you at after a few months? Where are you at after a year? If you haven't gone platinum, it is nearly a certainty that it will never happen, despite what your upline might say. The facts are there, it's a matter of whether you want to believe it or not.

Amway Sales = Charity?

I know Amway defenders will talk about some of the sales they make, and that's fine and good, but when I look at the kinds of sales they make, it is usually insignificant. I recently read some comments that sort of made me laugh. A prospect apparently was invited to an Amway recruitment meeting by a friend, and out of courtesy, sat through the presentation (which nobody else attended) and politely declined to register. The commenter went on to say that after the meeting, he felt sorry for his friend and purchased something off of his friend's IBO website, and it felt like making a charitable contribution. Makes me wonder since Amway's products are mostly consumed by IBOs themselves and I believe less than 5% of Amway good actually made it into the hands of a non IBO customer.

But now I wonder out of the tiny amount of IBO retail sales, how many of those sales are basically charitable contributions made to IBOs by family and friends who simply feel sorry for their acquainted IBO? When I first declined to join Amway under my eventual sponsor, they did ask me to buy some of their goods. But being a single male, my age group demographic didn't really match me with the products they were pushing. If I remember correctly, I ended up buying the liquid Amway car wax. While the car wax worked as well as the other leading brands, I recall that I paid about $12 for it back in 1995 or so. I can currently get a jumbo sized bottle od Nu-Finish or Astroshield liquid car wax for $7.99 at Target or other local retailers, and at times, the store puts them on special sales for $5.99. So basically, I am getting about twice as much car wax for the price if I purchase my car wax on a store special. I know Amway zealots will want to compare the price with an online sourcem but as I said, I make my purchase in person and wait for store soecials which occurs every couple of months.

I know at times, I have seen other family and friends involved in MLM. And while I was once there, I now see their attempts as somewhat pathetic, especially when they are basically walking the same path I did about 12 years ago as an IBO. I do not discourage them, but simply decline to see their plan or register as a downline. I have at times, also made charitable contributions to some friends who had become involved in MLM. If nothing else, just to be supportive of a friend. Ultimately, these MLM friends eventually figured things out on their own and quit as I did. Some of them follow my blog and some just quietly faded into the sunset. They do not run an informative blog as I do, but not everyone can or will. (Sound familar?)

However, after reading the comments about the polite friend who bought an Amway product from a friend, I have to wonder whether IBOs are making true retail sales or merely receiving charitable contributions from friends and family in the form of Amway product purchases?

Amway Is Not "Get Rich Quick"?

One of the things upline used to say was that Amway is not "get rich quick". I suppose they say this because most people would more likely think scam if they promoted it that way. But when you stop and think about it, 2-5 years, build it right and you have willable, residual income for like while walking the beaches of the world? That's not get rich quick? Or is ot more of a disclaimer so that the opportunity doesn't sound "too good to be true"? One thing is for sure, even if uplines tell you that it's not get rich quick, it's obvious that IBOs think they will eventually get rich, even if it's not quick. The vast majority of IBOs won't "get rich at all", at least not from Amway.

What most IBOs don't figure out quickly enough, is that they are unlikely to even make a profit, let alone getting rich in Amway. How many of these peoplle exist? Where are all of these retired Amway IBOs who built a business in 2-5 years and then walked away from their business and will be collecting a significant residual income for many years to come afterwards? I don't know of a single person who has done this and none of the Amway defenders and zealots I have encountered over the years has been able to supply this information either. I hear stories of these people but not one shred of bonafide evidence has yet been supplied.

I can acknowledge that Amway is a business opportunity and will definitely take some work to be able to achieve something. But thinking realistically, what business could you actually be able to walk away in 2-5 years and not work again? More than likely that business doesn't exist, whether it's Amway or not. Say you opened a conventional business. There wouldn't be many scenarios where you could walk away after a number of years. The business would still require work and maintenance. But for some reason, people are mislead to believe that you can do this in Amway where there is a high attrition rate and where your business can only expand by person to person.

Sadly, many of the people who are attracted to the Amway opportunity are often young and ambitious people looking to get more out of life. They are often eager and willing but may lack a means to gain wealth, thus the appeal of the opportunity is there. Unfortunately, these nice young people are more likely to end up channeling their hard earned dollars into standing orders and functions which will almost guarantee that they end up with a net loss. The bottom line is that not only is Amway not get rich quick. The more likely scenario is that your involvement with Amway will very likely be not begetting rich at all. A net loss is the most likely result. I challenge anyone to try and prove me wrong on this point.

The Amway Reality?

When I was an IBO, I saw the Amway presentation many times. The person showing the plan used the 6-4-2 plan at the time. While some other variations have been made since, the basic premise is to show off fancy cars, houses, a leisurely lifestyle and attribute it to the Amway business. Often, the presentation will show a best case scenario for IBOs and ignore the reality for most. Dreams and hopes may be talked about. Dreams of early retirement and residual income flowing for generations to come while you and your family wake up at noon everyday and decide what fun activities you'll partake in for the day. The presentation is certainly thought provoking and can get people's interest. Who wouldn't like to quit their job if they can be "retired" and have more income rolling in with minimal effort?

Sadly for most, the reality will set in soon enough and many will end up doing little or nothing. Some will give it an earnest try and end up seeing the reality of the business. The reality is that the business is nearly impossible to build and sustain. While a select few might succeed and make some money at it, the vast majority, even those who work hard and learn the skills of the trade will make nothing or lose money. Participation in the tool system which includes functions, nearly assures an IBO of a net loss. While this will be downplayed by upline leaders, it it absolutely the reality for most.

Why is the business so next to impossible to build? There are various reasons. In general, Amway's products are not priced competitively. You can find most(same) products or similar products at a big box retailer and get it cheaper. In many cases, the quality is better or equal. That is not to say there is nothing of value in Amway. Some of their products are fairly good and have value. But overall, you can get more bang for your buck at other retailers. For that reason, it is difficult for many IBOs to sell Amway products, save for some family and friends. What makes it even harder for IBOs is that they are primarily moving product by person to person interaction as advertising is limited or prohibited altogether by Amway's rules.

IBO retention also makes it nearly impossible to retain a group and makes the possibility of "residual" income next to impossible, save for some very tenured and old timers who have very deep legs (downlines). I don't personally know of anyone who's retired to walked away from the Amway business with income still coming in. While there might a few, you'd have to wonder why crown ambassadors and double diamonds continue to work the functions when they could be sitting on an exotic beach relaxing.

Also factor in some crazy IBO behavior and IBO's antics and you can see why the Amway business is next to impossible to build and retain. There are countless stories of people being tricked into attending Amway meetings, or people being lied to or deceived by an IBO. When you have this kind of reputation, you can easily see that building and retaining an Amway business is next to impossible. That is the reality. The reality is that most IBOs who give it an earnest try will lose money if they participate in the seminars and standing orders. The reality is that uplines might make most of their money from the sale of tools and not from Amway. The reality is that recruiting and maintaining a downline is nearly impossible.

While IBOs and Amway apologists may paint a different picture, it doesn't change the reality, which is clear to me.

Your Amway Job?

Amway IBOs like to call themselves "Independent Business Owners". But when you sit down and think about this for a minute, I believe that the Amway opportunity is more like a job. As an IBO, you are basically acting as a commissioned salesperson without any benefits coming from the Amway corporation. It's great for Amway as they only pay you for products that are moved. They are also a separate legal entity, thus they can distance themselves from IBO's who do stupid things. The defense being, "Amway didn't do that", even if Amway IBOs may have been responsible for something stupid.

The Amway corporation can sit back, and simply issue bonuses to downline IBOs. It is the IBOs themselves who recruit others, train others and move the products. Many IBOs are fiercely loyal to Amway products even when they could get the exact same product or a similar product, in many cases, at a fraction of the cost at a big box retailer, or even a local retailer. This is taught by the Amway Motivational Organizations (AMOs).

Uplines get you to see the world differently. That you do not equate an hourly wage with your business. But if IBOs did think of their earnings that way, they would easily see that they are working to lose money or to make pennies an hour. For the vast majority of IBOs, working minimum wage would be far more lucrative than spending countless hours and money chasing an Amway dream that is very unlikely to materialize. Uplines also get you to think you are "investing" in your business by purchasing tools, but in reality, you are just a customer of your upline's tool business. Uplines disguise this fact to many IBOs and the result is IBOs purchasing many tools even when their business is not growing or getting any results because of the tools.

You dedicate yourself to attending meetings, working the phones, meeting with uplines and downlines. You drive a lot of miles. But what many IBOs do not notice is that the priority in building a business should be a focus on getting more customers and expanding sales. But because Amway products can be hard to sell, most IBOs are focused on expanding their business by recruiting others. An endless chain of recruitment, which is why many people think of Amway as a pyramid scheme. Whether it's legal or not as is, is not my call. Some groups may teach "buy from yourself", which is okay, except that no business can succeed without actual sales to customers who are not participants (IBOs).

But the bottom line in my view, is that Amway is more like a job than an independent business. Call it what you will, but in either case, business or job, it doesn't pay well for most. The facts are there. The question is whether you can evaluate that answer objectively.