tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-84943092850430630742024-03-19T01:48:45.843-07:00Amway - The Dream Or The Scheme?Joecoolhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09121920263105613498noreply@blogger.comBlogger3297125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8494309285043063074.post-46169931423529669462024-03-18T15:39:00.000-07:002024-03-18T15:39:30.689-07:00Diamonds Teaching About Debt?<p> Getting out of debt sounds like good advice. On the surface it is because people should not be racking up consumer debt or committing large sums of their income for cars and other items they simply cannot cannot afford. But what does it mean for an IBO? I know my former upline taught our group to get out of debt. However, I believe my former uplines had self-serving intentions when they taught this. Let me translate what I believe they meant:</p>"You should not have any debt because it would affect your ability to buy more PV and tools. If you have debt, it affects my cashflow" This is if you read between the lines if what the diamond is saying, in my informed opinion.<br /><br />Ironically, for many, maybe most IBOs, although taught to get "get out of debt", the bottom-line result is more debt. There is more debt because the cost of products and tools begin to mount. How many families actually spend $300 a month (approximate cost of 100 PV) on household products? And then to add onto that expense, IBOs who are trying to be "successful" need tools which cost anywhere from $150 a month up to more than $500 a month depending on whether the IBO is married, single and the level of commitment. Thus, IBOs are now spending at least several hundreds of dollars or more that they never spent before.<br /><br />Most IBOs, especially new IBOs, generally earn less than $50 a month. In fact, $50 a month income in this business would make you quite exceptional. Most IBOs earn less than $20 a month. With that kind of income and with the expenses I listed above (tools = voicemail, books, standing orders, and functions), nearly all "serious" IBOs operate in the red and never turn a profit. The only way an IBO can turn a profit is to sell Amway products like crazy (which I have never witnessed) or to sponsor enough downline to absorb the losses for them. The only true success stories are the ones who sell the tools.<br /><br />The reason why I believe that my former uplines (who are still in WWDB and apparently teach the same things now as they did back when I was an IBO) are teaching self-serving advice because although they said to "get out of debt", they made an exception to this and said it was perfectly okay to go in debt to attend functions or to buy more standing orders. IBOs were also told to do "whatever it takes" to get to the next function or to buy more tools. It is why I witnessed some crosslines go bankrupt, more than one couple lost their homes following upline advice. And these couples were told they shouldn't worry because they can pay cash for their homes when they go diamond. Another apparent lie told by WWDB leaders, especially those who had their own homes foreclosed.<br /><br />Let's be perfectly real here. If you join Amway and participate in the system consisting of voicemail, books, standing orders and functions, you are far more likely to get into debt or increase your debt rather than making money and getting out of debt. The math bears it out if you are willing to look at it objectively.Joecoolhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09121920263105613498noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8494309285043063074.post-31721875923381367512024-03-17T17:02:00.000-07:002024-03-17T17:02:49.852-07:00Statues Of Amway Diamonds?<p> I often heard the saying in Amway: "there are no statues of Amway critics". To that I would respond, there are no statues of Amway diamonds either.</p>I often wondered what the Amway opportunity would be without any critics. Most likely Amway IBOs would be blissfully building their business while blindly following upline advice to over consume PV and Amway related tools and functions. If you are in WWDB or another Amway related teaching system, have you noticed that your upline is often tracking how many audios/cds you are sending downline and how many people you have attending functions? This is done because upline is trying to plan and makes plans for their projected income. Do the math on a major function and you will easily see what I mean.<br /><br />Many Amway supporters think that critics exist only to tear down others or to bash the Amway opportunity. I see it completely opposite. I believe that Amway critics are important for IBOs. Without any opposing voice, IBOs would mistakenly believe that they are in Amway utopia except that eventually, they would notice that they are losing their shirts. An opposing voice is a good thing to bring up issues that you may not have thought of. Imagine what you might be like without the ability to feel pain? You might have injuries or illnesses that would go undetected which could eventually kill you. But you upline probably teaches people to "avoid negative". Avoiding excessive negative might be good but avoiding all negative is like an inability to feel pain.<br /><br />When I was an IBO, our upline (and many others apparently) claimed that nobody made any profits from the system (voicemail, books, tapes/cds. functions). Without any opposing voices, this might still be happening. IBOs had no way of knowing. Upline just told bold lies and got away with it. To this day, none of these "awesome" leaders have even been held accountable for the lies. The diamonds simply ignored it. Sure, they now speak about making some income from tools, but there is little transparency about how you actually qualify for a share and how much you get when you qualify. Why is that?<br /><br />Critics have also pointed out that many IBOs are taught to ignore important facts such as their profits versus losses. Some IBOs are taught "fake it till you make it" or they are taught to "buy from yourself", both of which are ridiculous from a business standpoint. But without an opposing view, IBOs would never question upline. In fact, many IBOs are taught to avoid all negative such as don't watch the news or read the newspaper. In other words, upline wants you to be apathetic and only read and intake their Amway propaganda. This is why some people accuse Amway leaders of running a cult.<br /><br />Think about this. I believe that having opposing views are vitally important for IBOs to consider. Valid criticism is good for IBOs who are serious about building their businesses. Constructive criticism is a good thing. If you consider good criticism as negative, just remember: As far as I know, there are no statues of Amway diamonds.Joecoolhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09121920263105613498noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8494309285043063074.post-61536446933177939212024-03-15T16:24:00.000-07:002024-03-15T16:24:43.324-07:00Success Speaks Volumes?<p> I heard a great comment from a commentator on a related Amway blog. Basically, he said if Amway IBOs were so successful, people would just naturally be attracted. And that's true! Where I live, the local electric company is an attractive place to work with a good salary and benefits package. When there's a handful of openings, you might get as many as 6,000 people applying for a handful of these positions. When the federal government hires for the post office, you get thousands of applicants for a handful of jobs as well.</p>But IBOs have to justify their positions. The common ones are how Amway products are concentrated, or they have magical ingredients in their vitamins. It is my position that if these products were so good and the opportunity actually produced successful IBOs, there would be no need to be deceptive about the products or opportunity. The products could easily be marketed. In fact, customers would be seeking IBOs to find the products, and there would be lines of people waiting to see the opportunity.<br /><br />Instead, IBOs themselves are the primary consumers of Amway products. Many IBOs are deceptive when inviting people to see the Amway plan. Some prospects are outright lied to when recruited for the Amway opportunity. The curiosity approach is still used by many, because mentioning "Amway" is more likely to get you funny looks than interest. If what I am writing is not true, why do IBOs need to deceive people? Why don't some IBOs open their books and display the financial success they claim to have? Why so secretive? Why aren't there hoards of new diamonds and emeralds each month? Instead, you mainly hear of the Amway growth in foreign countries. Most likely because the Amway name and reputation has not yet been soiled as it has in the US and Canada.<br /><br />In the US, I see primarily the same old diamonds who were in control of the functions and systems from more than 12 years ago. In fact, factoring in diamonds who quit or dropped out, I believe there are fewer diamonds now than when I was an IBO. Some of these diamonds also had some apparent financial difficulties. The opportunity is far from how it's promoted. Success speaks louder than words, and where North American Amway success is concerned, the silence is deafening!Joecoolhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09121920263105613498noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8494309285043063074.post-46596142630178003202024-03-14T19:53:00.000-07:002024-03-14T19:53:52.053-07:00If Not Amway, Then What?<p> One of the humorous things that Amway IBOs often bring up is that someone who sees Amway in a critical eye should bring up viable business or income producing alternatives. I mean if someone prevents you from falling over a cliff, they should have warned you and given you alternatives right? If I recognized you getting were conned by a conman, I should find viable financial investments for you before warning you of the potential scam you are about to walk into right? It sounds completely ridiculous, but Amway IBOs have actually made those comments on this blog and some other Amway related websites.</p>Well, let's explore a few of these alternatives anyway just for fun. How about you stay home and do nothing? For most IBOs, you would be better off financially than committing your time and resources into Amway's products and their ineffective training materials and functions. If you are really dedicated to tools, sending your upline a check for $50 or $100 monthly and not buying Amway goods or related training materials would make you better off. Isn't it ironic that doing nothing makes you better off than Amway? Staying home and watching TV is better than Amway because you won't lose money in doing so, LOL<br /><br />A second job where you actually receive a paycheck is a better alternative. While there's no hype and hopes of getting rich in 2-5 years, you can do much for your future by saving a portion of that paycheck each month. If you are young, this especially applies to you. But anyone can help their future by saving and investing. Even someone who panhandles is more likely to have more net cash than most Amway IBOs since most Amway IBOs make nothing or lose money.<br /><br />Sure, some people do make money in Amway, and some make a lot of money. The problem is they make money by exploiting their downlines and those hopeful downlines basically have no hope. In other words, you profit by selling false hope and false dreams. Basically, you can gain wealth in Amway by being a conman. Can you live with yourself in order to profit at any cost? What the upline does is extract $100 or a few hundred dollars a month from a lot of people. This comes in the form of PV/BV volume and the bonuses that come from it, along with sales of tools and functions, which have a high profit margin than Amway goods, which is why so many uplines emphasize the tools and functions.<br /><br />I haven't even gone into the amount of time lost chasing prospects and attending functions. Your time might be the most valuable commodity that is lost chasing the 2-5 year dream. Ask yourself this question. Where are these diamonds who did the 2-5 year plan living in luxury and doing nothing? I have asked this over the years numerous times and not a single Amway defender can name someone and provide a shred of evidence that it's true.Joecoolhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09121920263105613498noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8494309285043063074.post-807050122227694262024-03-13T21:31:00.000-07:002024-03-13T21:31:17.200-07:00A Random Observation?<p> http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=192279&page=8</p><br />It's refreshing to see so many good people on this forum telling the truth about Amway. It looks like the pro-Amway shills here and on other sites are becoming increasingly outnumbered and desperate. I've read through this entire thread and think it is hilarious how many times the shill has to move the goal-posts or play word games to make Amway look like an amazing business opportunity.<br /><br />I was originally introduced to Amway many years ago in my late teens by an uncle of mine. I attended a few of their seminars, and was impressed at first. But the whole thing started to seem ridiculous and unrealistic and so I didn't get involved any further. Also, I'm not that materialistic, so Amway's message doesn't appeal to me. I wish my uncle had been more skeptical.<br /><br />My uncle was very devoted to Amway for a few years. He bought all their products(especially the tapes and books), tried to get others to buy them, and also tried to recruit all his family and friends into his new religion. He eventually lost money and friends and alienated himself from much of his family.<br /><br />Already heavily in debt, he eventually fell for another, even bigger get-rich-quick scam shortly after quitting Amway (to Amway's credit, they don't threaten to kill anyone for leaving Amway). This one robbed him of his entire life savings. The scammers got away with it because they knew how to play him right (he met one of them through Amway). His wife divorced him soon after.<br /><br />As if this wasn't enough, after making a modest financial recovery with his business over the course of several years, he loses it all to yet another scam. He had to borrow heavily from the few friends he had left since no bank would ever give him a loan, and almost no one in the family has anything to do with him anymore. I haven't seen him for 15 years.<br /><br />One thing I wonder about my uncle is if all those seminars and inspirational tapes and books softened him up to fall for all those other scams he fell for after quitting Amway (he didn't have a reputation for being gullible before joining Amway, though he was never that bright to begin with). If I remember correctly, he tended to blame himself for failing at Amway, and may have never understood that it was a big scam or at least not a good business opportunity.<br /><br />I still remember those crazy seminars and how they told everyone that joining the Amway cult will likely lead to yachts, exotic vacations surrounded by hot bikini babes, and shiny expensive cars, among other symbols of wealth. Everyone is told at the seminars and in the "tools" that they have all this unfulfilled potential, but to realize this potential we must avoid those small-minded "dream killers"(skeptical family members and friends).<br /><br />The story about my stupid uncle is true. There are many other people out there just like him who have fallen for Amway and others MLMs. The few people I've met who claimed they were very successful at Amway usually seemed sleazy or I would find out years later they were up to their eyeballs in debt.<br /><br />The person who said before that the people who regularly attend these seminars are mostly fools and misfits was spot on.Joecoolhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09121920263105613498noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8494309285043063074.post-89779544556035722942024-03-12T22:36:00.000-07:002024-03-12T22:36:34.628-07:00Shark Tank?<p> Has anyone seen the show "Shark Tank" on one of the business/financial news channels? I watch a few shows weekly and I find it interesting and educational at the same time, regarding starting a business and how to take it to greater levels. </p><p>If you're not familiar with Shark Tank, you have a panel of investors with some bankroll. They listen to pitches from upstart entrepreneurs and if the pitch/product is appealing, one of the "sharks" might offer to invest in the upstart business for a equity share in the business, or some product royalties, or both. Oftentimes the sharks get personally involved and help boots the business since they will have made a significant investment at times. The show is quite intriguing and sometimes you see brilliant young entrepreneurs who know their business and sometimes, you see folks who completely miss the mark. </p><p>The panel of sharks, if interested, will ask pointed questions about the upstart business including patents, sales, investment of personal assets into the business, revenue projections and other important related questions. People who cannot answer questions or are not sure of what they are pitching often hear "I'm out" from one of the sharks, or investors. Now all of these investors are seasoned and experienced business people with the know how and support staff to take your business to new levels. This is displayed when they show updates on previous investments where s start up is now a multi million dollar business. </p><p>That brings me to the relevant question. How would an Amway IBO fare on Shark Tank? How would even a diamond be able to answer relevant questions from the panel such as retail sales, cost to acquire customers, etc etc. My guess would be that IBOs would be laughed out of the room when the talk about real non-IBO customers came up, When you think about it, the Amway opportunity is all about recruiting your customers to become downline who you will also exploit with tools and functions. I can't imagine any Amway IBO, diamond or not, would be able to gain any traction at all in the Shark Tank. And that's because the Shark Tank panel will ask real business questions which cannot be obfuscated by answering a question with a question or by changing the subject when pressed. I suppose this is why no Amway person has ever made an appearance on this show, as far as I know. But even if they did, the outcome would be very predictable. </p><p>But as a side note, if any IBOs are reading this article, Shark Tank is a great place to learn about real business. I would highly recommend it. LOL</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p> </p><p><br /></p>Joecoolhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09121920263105613498noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8494309285043063074.post-63693797733246242502024-03-11T23:07:00.000-07:002024-03-11T23:07:10.289-07:00None Of Your Business (Nunya)?<p> <span style="font-size: 14.85px;">One of the things I heard as an IBO, and still witness today, is IBOs telling prospects that their income is none of your business, or "nunya". That you can refer to the compensation plan and see that you are compensated for volume. That your effort will yield different results than their efforts. All I can say is what a load of baloney. If you are researching the Amway business opportunity and the person contacting you won't disclose financial details of their business, red flags should pop up all over the place. Sure, if your potential sponsor is new, they may not have much to share, but are they willing to share or claim that it's a trade secret?</span></p><div class="post-body entry-content" style="font-size: 14.85px; line-height: 1.4; position: relative; width: 578px;">Remember that your sponsor will receive a financial benefit from your purchases and/or sales for the life of his/hers and your business. Volume that you move, plus your downline volume will be a part of your sponsor's and upline's volume. For that kind of reward, you'd think that people would be open to sharing. Now I'm not suggesting you ask to see the sponsor's personal job income, but surely, you'd want to know what kind of time, effort and expenses you might expect, along with the kind of expected results that your potential sponsor may be experiencing so you can decide whether it's worth the investment of time and money, especially if you will be encouraged, or more like expected to purchase training from the upline.<br /><br />If your potential sponsor has a downline, and has been around for a month or more, wouldn't you want to know what their results and expenses are? It's perfectly reasonable to ask and expect a response. Since Amway leaders often talk about duplicating, wouldn't you want to know what you would be duplicating? I wouldn't want to put in 12 hours a week plus a few hundred in expenses if the likely result would be a net loss. Now I understand that a new business might not prosper right away but what are the indicators that a profit is coming? If you have trouble selling and sponsoring downline, you will more than likely never make a net profit. If you are selling and sponsoring, but still not profiting, then what? Are the tools and training expenses eating up all your profits?<br /><br />It is my conclusion that uplines and potential sponsors don't share this information because it would not be attractive to prospects. Most IBOs run at a loss, especially if they have tools and training expenses and they might be putting in a tremendous effort. We know that some diamonds have financial difficulty. We also know that some, possibly many diamonds make more money from the tools and training than from Amway. I believe that the Amway opportunity is a far cry from how it's presented with the mansions and sports cars. I believe the reality is a sad one. If you are told by your potential sponsor that their business income and/or results are none of your business, you should pack up your bags and run!<br /><div style="clear: both;"></div></div><div><br /></div>Joecoolhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09121920263105613498noreply@blogger.com3tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8494309285043063074.post-91660264112535184212024-03-10T21:16:00.000-07:002024-03-10T21:16:06.807-07:00I Didn't Work Hard Enough?<p> <span style="background-color: white; caret-color: rgb(51, 51, 51); color: #333333; font-size: 14.85px;">I believe there's a gigantic myth that people who ultimately fail in Amway simply didn't work hard enough, or didn't put in enough time, and ended up quitting too early. Based on personal experience and observations of others, I truly believe that to be NOT true. Now I agree that many IBOs do little or nothing, but generally, these folks don't complain, and their losses are generally limited to the sign up fee or kit. Most do not seek refunds, file complaints and simply chalk up the loss as a learning experience. </span></p><span face="Arial, Tahoma, Helvetica, FreeSans, sans-serif" style="background-color: white; caret-color: rgb(51, 51, 51); color: #333333; font-size: 14.85px;">I myself, put in some months of very dedicated work towards building a business. I had a decent sized group and was headed for platinum. But the fact of the matter is that even though my group was growing, I wasn't making a net profit. I seriously doubt that any of my downline made a net profit, primarily because of the business and tools expenses. I drove the miles, I showed the plan, and I attended all the meetings and functions. I did what I was advised by my upline. My net profit at 4000 PV was little to nothing with a net loss when all the business expenses were factored i such as gas money, functions, standing orders, etc. </span><br style="caret-color: rgb(51, 51, 51); color: #333333; font-family: Arial, Tahoma, Helvetica, FreeSans, sans-serif; font-size: 14.85px;" /><br style="caret-color: rgb(51, 51, 51); color: #333333; font-family: Arial, Tahoma, Helvetica, FreeSans, sans-serif; font-size: 14.85px;" /><span face="Arial, Tahoma, Helvetica, FreeSans, sans-serif" style="background-color: white; caret-color: rgb(51, 51, 51); color: #333333; font-size: 14.85px;">My upline also did a lot of work, and he put in the hours, drove the miles and attended everything. He told me his net profit was not any of my business. (If you hear that, it's a huge red flag). I suspect my upline and sponsor also broke even or lost money despite working very hard and doing what they were advised to. I later read the assessment made by the Wisconsin attorney general Bruce Craig, who examined the tax returns of (I believe it was platinums/direct distributors) of IBOs in his state and they averaged a net annual loss of $900. While the study is a bit dated, the business has not really changed except that there are more expenses and tools associated with the business today, than back when the study occurred. </span><br style="caret-color: rgb(51, 51, 51); color: #333333; font-family: Arial, Tahoma, Helvetica, FreeSans, sans-serif; font-size: 14.85px;" /><br style="caret-color: rgb(51, 51, 51); color: #333333; font-family: Arial, Tahoma, Helvetica, FreeSans, sans-serif; font-size: 14.85px;" /><span face="Arial, Tahoma, Helvetica, FreeSans, sans-serif" style="background-color: white; caret-color: rgb(51, 51, 51); color: #333333; font-size: 14.85px;">I also question the validity of Amway defenders who claim that people did not work hard enough or did not run their business properly. I seriously doubt that anyone has done a comprehensive study of people who actually made an effort to build an Amway business, to determine why they may not have the success they desired. However, I can make my own conclusions. Many IBOs are taught to buy from themselves with little sales. They're taught to buy tools, even when they aren't making progress in the business. People who are struggling in Amway are often told that they need to sponsor more people, show more plans. (A struggling business opens new stores to improve business?).</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(51, 51, 51); color: #333333; font-family: Arial, Tahoma, Helvetica, FreeSans, sans-serif; font-size: 14.85px;" /><br style="caret-color: rgb(51, 51, 51); color: #333333; font-family: Arial, Tahoma, Helvetica, FreeSans, sans-serif; font-size: 14.85px;" /><span face="Arial, Tahoma, Helvetica, FreeSans, sans-serif" style="background-color: white; caret-color: rgb(51, 51, 51); color: #333333; font-size: 14.85px;">In my opinion, hard work and success in Amway have little relationship. Sure, there is work needed. But working hard doesn't assure you of anything. You need to be able to develop a following. Just working hard has nothing to do with long term sustainable success. There are plenty of examples of hard workers who lost money. What I believe happens, is that IBOs get excited, get started and contact people and show plans. But Amway has the reputation of "pyramid" or "scam" and people quickly get discouraged and stop building the business. Those who try to sell Amway goods find that a month's supply of multi vitamins ($80) double x is a tough sell, or $50 cases of bottled water. They also get discouraged and quit. </span><br style="caret-color: rgb(51, 51, 51); color: #333333; font-family: Arial, Tahoma, Helvetica, FreeSans, sans-serif; font-size: 14.85px;" /><br style="caret-color: rgb(51, 51, 51); color: #333333; font-family: Arial, Tahoma, Helvetica, FreeSans, sans-serif; font-size: 14.85px;" /><span face="Arial, Tahoma, Helvetica, FreeSans, sans-serif" style="background-color: white; caret-color: rgb(51, 51, 51); color: #333333; font-size: 14.85px;">Only those who can somehow recruit and replace those quit end up having a chance to grow their group large enough to sell them tools, which then makes selling Amway products less important. But I don't buy for a minute that people simply do not succeed in Amway primarily because they don't work hard or smart enough. I challenge anyone to prove that a lack of work is the reason for Amway failure. The system is designed for only a few to succeed. Examine the 6-4-2, there is 1 platinum and 78 downline, and that's assuming everyone "did some work".</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(51, 51, 51); color: #333333; font-family: Arial, Tahoma, Helvetica, FreeSans, sans-serif; font-size: 14.85px;" /><br style="caret-color: rgb(51, 51, 51); color: #333333; font-family: Arial, Tahoma, Helvetica, FreeSans, sans-serif; font-size: 14.85px;" /><span face="Arial, Tahoma, Helvetica, FreeSans, sans-serif" style="background-color: white; caret-color: rgb(51, 51, 51); color: #333333; font-size: 14.85px;">IBOs fail in vast quantities, but not because they don't do enough work.</span>Joecoolhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09121920263105613498noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8494309285043063074.post-72775133450595870372024-03-09T21:55:00.000-08:002024-03-09T21:55:58.430-08:00Joecool's 4000 PV Business?<p> I wanted to give people a glimpse into what it was like at the 4000 PV level and what my experience was. Although Amway and WWDB apologists will claim this doesn't happen, or that it doesn't happen anymore, I have reasons to believe that very little has changed in WWDB since I was an IBO. The only major difference was that we did call in and product pick up back then. Currently, everything is done online and shipped to your home or designated address. Apparently, some WWDB leaders still talk about buying homes in cash and teaching the same old stuff. </p>How many hours per week did I work? I would say up to 30 hours a week was spent on business related issues. Granted, product pick up consumed an entire afternoon and evening, generally on Thursdays. I would have to call in my order to the platinum on Wednesday night and then pick up the stuff on Thursday afternoon. Then I had to rush home and distribute the stuff to my downline. My upline platinum was not good at filling orders so it was a real pain. I'd say pick up and associated paperwork cost me maybe 8 hours a week. One good benefit today is that Amway issues the bonuses. In the old days, you as an upline had to do so. (This is an area where I agree that Amway made good progress) I did hear though, that WWDB still has call in and pick up for standing orders and such. If this is true, then they undid the progress that Amway had made. Also, as a up and coming leader, my platinum expected me to absorb some of the cost of returned tools, such as absorbing losses if someone on standing order quit. (Brad Duncan cut a true north tape at the time that basically said IBOs absorb the cost of standing orders for downlines who quit)<br /><br />As a 4000 pin, I had to show the plan or attend plans for my frontline, if the platinum was showing the plan. I'd say 4 nights per week we showed the plan for a downline or a downline in depth. Of course, after the plan, we might "hang out" with downline and have some night owl teaching. Some people call this association or whatever. Depending on the length of the drive, this might take 3-4 hours 4 nights per week. Sometimes it was shorter when you had no shows.<br /><br />We counseled with downline and upline. I spent some individual time with my upline and also with downline who wanted one on one time to get ideas on how to improve their Amway business. We looked over their group parameters and of course, tools flow. There was a WWDB counseling sheet for this purpose. Looking back, I'm not sure what this really accomplished except for the big pins to know which leaders are selling the most tools. I guess in the end, tool sales were the focus of the big pin because they made a significant portion of their income from these sales. To say otherwise, would be a big lie, in my opinion. <br /><br />Then we had open meetings and functions. One local function each month and generally one or two open meetings where a diamond or emerald would show the plan. Of course, my sponsor (platinum) did not feel right unless he augmented our function with his own night owl meetings. We also had three long distance functions on the mainland (I'm from Hawaii). These functions were (at the time) called Leadership, Family Reunion and Free Enterprise day. Being from Hawaii, these functions cost me, as a single, at least $1,000 or more for each trip because it was airfare during peak travel times, hotel, rental cars and the function ticket. I hate to think what couples paid.<br /><br />Because of my status as an up and coming leader, I had the privilege of attending special meetings where our diamond would teach or show house plans. I even had the honor or driving the diamond to a house plan. Damn, how can anyone live without such an honor?<br /><br />For my troubles, I had a business at 4000 PV, with eagle parameters. I was considered a "mover and shaker". Lots of people knew me and my sponsor wanted so badly to break a downline platinum. He sat down with me one afternoon and told me I could really push to platinum and ruby easily if I would only ditch my girlfriend (fiancee' at the time). He told me that he would ditch his wife if the upline diamond told him to do so. He said a single (ruby or higher) could easily attract a lot of eligible women. It was after that meeting when I decided to quit.<br /><br />I had reached 4000 PV. I was making very little or losing some money because of the tools and functions. I did not see prospects of making money even at platinum and now my upline wanted control of my life. I told my group the truth and all of them quit except 1 or 2 of them who were brainwashed enough to stay involved. That was my story and I have no regrets about my decision to quit. I truly hope this story helps a prospect or a current IBO. <div><br /></div><div>If you want to surrender control of your life to a self serving upline, regardless of making profits or not, then Amway might indeed be the business you are seeking. It wasn't for me.</div>Joecoolhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09121920263105613498noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8494309285043063074.post-32051553899096332252024-03-08T21:03:00.000-08:002024-03-08T21:03:34.976-08:00In The End, Your Upline Is A Car Sales Person?<p> Our Amway group (WWDB) edified people who bought extraordinary amounts of extra tapes/cds, extra function tickets and made superhuman efforts to get to functions. Looking back, I remember an IBO who was edified for coming all the way to a family reunion function in Portland Oregon when he was diagnosed with terminal cancer. The speaker said he could have been miserable spending time at home but here he was making a difference in people's lives. WTH? I once wrote a post about how IBOs think they are saving the world and helping people when in reality, the masses of IBOs are only "helping" their diamonds to attain material wealth by purchasing function tickets, voicemail, standing orders and other materials. While people are doing community service, IBOs are sitting in functions and rah rah meetings.</p>I would agree that some training and information can be helpful for new IBOs, but I do not see any value in a never-ending supply of cds and an endless number of meetings and functions. The very thing (support materials) that uplines claim is your key to success is the very thing that nearly guarantees business building IBOs will have financial struggles. Our upline wanted IBOs to be out of debt, which is good, but they would also say in the same breath that it was okay to go into hock if it was to attend functions or to purchase additional support materials. Sadly, many IBOs do not see through this self serving advice.<br /><br />Most people, including myself are very wary when we deal with car salesmen. We are wary because we know that the salesman is out to make money off of us and will try to sell us every option in the book. Thus, we negotiate and reject the car options that we don't really need to or. Guess what? Your uplines are like car salesmen except that they sell you different options such as premier club, standing order, book of the month, function tickets, voicemail, open meeting tickets. Just like a car buying customer, taking all the options maximizes the car salesman's commission and the car dealer's profit. Buying all the support materials increases your upline's profits. Imagine the car salesman telling you that the extended warranty was vital to owning the car. You'd think twice about it, yet uplines will tell you that functions are vital to your Amway business and many IBOs buy it hook line and sinker. I hope this analogy will encourage IBOs to think of support materials as options on the car. You don't need any options to make the car work. Just as you don't really need support materials to buy and sell Amway products, and to get some downline to do the same.<br /><br />We are wary of car salesmen. In my opinion, downline and prospects should be just as wary of uplines who promote tools as "vital" to your success in Amway. Keep in mind that a sponsor is obligated to help train any downline, regardless of whether they are on the system or not.Joecoolhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09121920263105613498noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8494309285043063074.post-51630882094518276122024-03-07T10:52:00.000-08:002024-03-07T10:52:45.380-08:00Prosperity Preachers?<p> One of the things I often thought odd as an Amway IBO was how our upline would keep teaching us that the Amway business was all about "helping people". Somehow, our upline felt that showing someone the plan or talking to them about the business was helping someone. That is because our upline felt that everyone was doomed for financial failure if they didn't join Amway. Of course, nothing could be further from the truth now that I am looking back. In fact, I would have to say that building the business and purchasing tools was the CAUSE of financial disaster for some of my fellow IBOs. I remember reading about more than one home foreclosure and a couple of bankruptcies.</p>It's like IBOs held some dark secret and they could save the world by sharing this secret with prospects. So the theme of many voicemails (Amvox at the time) was about how IBOs in the group were saving the world by helping people. I used to wonder how we were helping people when we basically only "helped" IBOs who wanted to build the business. If someone declined to join, they were forgotten. Our upline said we threw them a life preserver, but they rejected it, so we are moving on. it was often compared to a church activity where IBOs are saving souls. I actually found this extra weird because we were often taught that we could give the church money in the future ($10,000 checks) and we could serve in ministry after we were "free". I find this ludicrous now, but at the time, we were told that this was delayed gratification. After I left Amway, I spoke to the senior pastor of the church, and he opined that Amway was harmful to many because it simply held too many empty promises. In other words, they promote big dreams and wealth, but very few ever attain any success, for whatever reason. The pastor said the reason for the low success was not relevant. The fact that it was rare to see success was enough to conclude that Amway was not a good opportunity.<br /><br />In fact, some diamonds can be seen as prosperity preachers. They speak about wealth attained through Amway when in reality their wealth may come from other sources, such as tools income, yet they falsely promote Amway as their primary source of success. Then they bait and switch IBOs and tell them that the tools system is the only way to succeed, all the while profiting handsomely from the tools. They then justify their conflict if interest by claiming that IBOs are helping people and/or doing God's work by joining Amway. I believe many IBOs are giving false hope and promises to prospects as taught by upline leaders. All the while they themselves are losing money while thinking they are supporting a noble cause. I hope they awaken before it's too late.Joecoolhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09121920263105613498noreply@blogger.com2tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8494309285043063074.post-13805896940401139502024-03-06T19:38:00.000-08:002024-03-06T19:38:26.363-08:00No Negatives, Amway Positive?<p>There's always been some debate between critics and Amway supporters over an issue regarding a WWDB function called 'Dream Night". A WWDB IBO reported that the function was sold out but would not disclose the amount of a Dream Night ticket. He later posted an article saying that he was sorry for being "negative". Now as a former IBO from WWDB myself, I was taught to be only positive, We were told that we have too much negative in our lives and that we need the positive. But there's a difference between being positive and being "Amway" positive. For example, if you got sick and caught a "cold", they would say they caught a "warm". I thought this was a bit bizarre, proclaiming the opposite, as if that will change things.</p>Now I agree that having only "negatives" in our lives would be detrimental. That eventually, we would be worn down by only negative. But conversely, the teaching of having only positive in your life can be equally damaging. I recall an old Twilight Zone episode where a guy allegedly dies, and he thinks he went to heaven as a man in white came to him and offered to grant him what he wanted. He asked for beautiful girls and to be a winner in gambling. Well, the man could never lose a single bet. He won every single time, and he had girls all over him. He found it to be no challenge and found life so mundane and predictable that he asked the man in white if he could lose once in a while or be challenged. The man in white basically said "no" and the man (I believe his name was Rocky) Rocky, said how come heaven was so lame (not verbatim). The man in white proceeded to tell him "what makes you think you're in heaven" and laughed incessantly while the Twilight Zone music ended the show.<br /><br />Now being positive and having a good attitude is a good idea and probably good for your business, but having only positive and shutting out all negatives is a ridiculous thing, and it seems as if WWDB leaders are still teaching it. What happens if your business gets audited? You tell the IRS man you can't speak to him if it's not "positive news"? What if you go to the doctor? You tell him don't let you know what's going on unless it's positive news? If there's a natural disaster in your town, you turn off the news because it's not "positive"? What if your body could not feel pain? Would that be positive for you? It might but the reality is that not feeling pain or having zero stress is likely to be detrimental to your health. It's a fact that people need some degree of stress in their lives. Too much or too little can actually cause you problems.<br /><br />In my informed and experienced opinion, I believe that some Amway and WWDB leaders teach you to shut out negative in your life is because lots and lots and lots of people have negative experiences and things to say about Amway and WWDB. If you doubt me, ask about Greg Duncan, Dave Shores, Brad Wolgamott, Dean Kosage and some others. Ask your sponsor or your upline what happened to these folks. If they tell you nothing or that it's negative, I challenge you to google search and find out for yourself. If your upline still denies it or says you should shut out negative, maybe you should find out what they are hiding by shutting out all negative in their lives?<br /><br />Having only positive in your life is probably "weird". Is that what you want to be?Joecoolhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09121920263105613498noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8494309285043063074.post-17825321101067125062024-03-05T18:02:00.000-08:002024-03-05T18:02:50.215-08:00The Hard Reality"<p> One of the things that keeps some Amway IBOs going is the "hard reality". What I mean by that is for some IBOs, once you have been in Amway for a while, it can be hard to quit. You were possibly recruited with dreams of lifelong residual income and walking on all of the exotic beaches of the world. Retiring young and spending that time with your wife and family, and Amway friends. To quit means an IBO would have to face the reality that these dreams will not come true, at least not with the Amway business. The fact is that the Amway opportunity probably would not have delivered those dreams anyway. Even a diamond more than likely cannot afford those dreams. In fact, I would estimate that most diamonds, if they flaunt some excessive lifestyle, are near broke or in heavy debt as a diamond income cannot sustain a jet set lifestyle, save for a founder's double diamond or something similar. I believe the prominent WWDB triple diamond bankruptcy (in 2009 - WWDB Diamond) shed a lot of light into the finances of an upper-level pin and it wasn't as impressive as I would have thought.</p>The triple diamond who filed for chapter 7 bankruptcy made about half a million dollars annually from Amway. That's a great income and more than most people earn, but seriously, a half million dollars income is not going to allow you to buy mansions paid for in cash, or a fleet of sports cars. After paying taxes and business expenses, I'm not even sure someone with that kind of income even lives a worry free life of leisure. And we're talking about a triple diamond, not your average run of the mill regular diamonds who I would safely assume, earns much less than a triple diamond.<br /><br />But what really is the hard reality? It's working hard only to drift between 100 and 500 PV. It's finally sponsoring a new IBO only to have a downline quit. It's talking to people about Amway and getting laughed at or getting rejected. It's your upline or sponsor pushing you to do more. Possibly your upline is one who questions your manhood if you aren't working hard enough. It's your upline or sponsor reminding you that a winner doesn't miss functions, especially the major ones. It's staying up late for team meetings or night owls when you need a good night's rest to do your job the next day. It's driving the miles to show a plan, only to have your prospect not show up. It's having to be deceptive about what you are doing. It's skipping functions with family and friends so you can be "core" to the Amway business.<br /><br />As IBOs, do you see any of this? I saw some of this during my involvement. While I have not been an IBO in some years now, I still see many testimonies and comments by more current and even some active IBOs to indicate that a lot of this still goes on. While Amway defenders will deny it, I see no reason why any of this would have changed over the years since Amway has made no significant changes to stop abusive uplines. If Amway did make any changes, they are not immediately apparent, and the continuous string of comments and testimonies do not confirm that any clean-up has been done.<br /><br />For active IBOs or prospects, these are the hard realities that may be attached with the Amway opportunity. Much of it is because of motivational groups such as WWDB, but if you are seeing these traits in your group, ask the tough questions. If you happen to decide that the Amway opportunity is not for you, take heart! There are other ways to achieve your financial goals and dreams and there are more efficient ways out there. Sometimes, quitting something that isn't working is often a wise business decision, and sometimes you can lose more by not quitting. Good luck in whatever you decide.Joecoolhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09121920263105613498noreply@blogger.com2tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8494309285043063074.post-15522085634460874782024-03-04T21:31:00.000-08:002024-03-04T21:31:04.028-08:00Amway Versus Costco?<p> One of the things I frequently heard as an IBO sitting in meetings and functions was a comparison between the Amway opportunity and Costco. The comparison made was that Amway was sort of like a buyer's club, similar to Amway, we were told. I guess to the uninformed, and to the Amway faithful, it probably made sense. The thought was that you pay for a membership and in return, you get to purchase goods and wholesale, which saves you money. Amway and Costco right? But when you look at it a bit closer, Amway is not described anywhere as a buyer's club, nor does Amway promote themselves as such, unless there's something I completely missed about Amway's disclosures.</p><p>Let's look at value since this is often brought up as well. The diamond or speaker would often joke about how you go to Costco, and bring home 5 gallon buckets of laundry detergent, or a gallon of peanut butter, or whatever else you were looking to purchase. The speaker used to joke about "stack em deep and sell em cheap". Then the speaker would go on to say something like Amway sells in large bulk, but in Amway, you can buy eaches, or single products such as a regular bottle of shampoo and not the 64 ounce bottles. Of course, the speaker never mentions that the 8 ounce bottle of shampoo from Amway costs nearly the same as the 64 ounce bottle from Costco. Then there's the concentration story they use. But seriously, how concentrated is their stuff that 8 ounces can outlast 64 ounces, even if everything else is equal?</p><p>I might add that if you give good reviews about Costco to friends, they typically agree, and most people are already members. In contrast, the same friends may not be so enthusiastic about Amway. They might tolerate it and might even buy stuff from you if they are your good friends, but in the end, most people do not see Amway and Costco in the same light. Also, I have never heard anyone even say that Costco was like a pyramid scheme or some kind of scam. And Costco doesn't sell you training in order for you to be able to learn how to shop and Costco. That alone makes Costco a better deal, IMO. </p><p>One big line that upline used, was how you got paid for shopping through your own Amway business. Of course, in order for you to get paid for shopping through your own business, you needed to reach a minimum of 100 PV, which is roughly equivalent to $300 (USD). If you reach that magical 100 PV, you get a 3% bonus, which is roughly and typically $10 or so. In contrast, I could use a cash back credit card and get a percentage back even if I spend only $10. Sure, if I spend $300 at Costco, my cash back reward might be only $3-6, but then again, I go to Costco when I want, if I need stuff. Amway's bonus structure requires that you achieve 100 in a calendar month or you go back to 0 and start over again next month.</p><p>Another facet which I enjoy myself, is investing in Costco. I own 50 shares (currently trading about $758 per share as of today, March 4, 2024). I bought those shares last year and because Costco had a great year and was flush with cash, they paid a special dividend of $15 per share. Also, Costco stock has been on a roll, producing more than a 49% gain in 2023 and is on pace to get there again this year. For these reasons and more, I find Costco to be a superior choice. While Costco is not a business opportunity in itself, you could probably buy and sell certain products for a profit. That's why so many small business owners shop at Costco to buy supplies for their stores and restaurants. </p><p>The other argument I've heard from Amway apologists in regards to Costco, is that Amway can make you a millionaire. But I've challenged this claim with a question to those making the claims. Show me with reasonable evidence, that someone in Amway has a net worth because of the Amway business and not from other sources of income or resources, not including the Amway owners. The apologists will come back naming all kinds of diamonds and higher up pins, but they have no idea of how much they made and how much of a net worth these folks have. Thus, it's an empty claim.</p><p>I'll end on a funny story. An Amway apologist told me that his upline makes more money taking a crap in the morning than I make in a full year. So I offered to wager him $1000. I did the math. I was generous and said let's assume the diamond earns $5,000,000 a year. And dividing 5 million by 2000, which is the number of hours most full time workers put in, in a year. That diamond would make $2500 an hour. 2500 x 2000 = 5,000,000. So let's assume that diamond spends a full hour taking a crap in the morning, he would make $2500. That person never bothered to post on the forum again after the math was shown to him. </p><p>Costco is superior to Amway in many many ways, in my opinion.</p><p><br /></p><p> </p><p> </p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p> </p><p><br /></p>Joecoolhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09121920263105613498noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8494309285043063074.post-50794524728855361422024-03-03T20:11:00.000-08:002024-03-03T20:11:07.314-08:00Freedom?<p> Financial Freedom! That was one of the major battle cries when I was recruited for the Amway business. You gain control of time and money by creating residual or passive income. That is true financial freedom. You wake up at noon, no job, and just do whatever you please, whenever you please. I remember the speaker saying that broke/unemployed people also had freedom, but it was different because they were broke and could not afford to go golfing or do other activities that required money on a regular basis. Or you might have someone rich but spends 60-80 hours per week working to earn that level of income.</p>I am assuming that this is still the case for many IBOs. Of course, upline leaders may toss in a disclaimer that you don't get rich quick as an IBO, but the pitch apparently still contains the financial freedom and residual income theme, based on my experiences with IBOs. IBOs still think they will be rich. Also, 2-5 years sounds like "get rich quick" to me. Most prospects and current IBOs assume that diamonds are incredibly wealthy, often without actually doing the math to make a determination on their own. Instead, they tend to believe the speaker at meetings and functions, who have been built up by the downline faithful so they carry a degree of credibility with the audience, even if they may not have earned that credibility. <br /><br />But hey, financial freedom would be a great thing, don't get me wrong. Who wouldn't want to be 35 years old with enough cash to never have to work again? I mean I could spend some time imagining how fun that would be. It would also be fun to imagine what you would do with all the cash if you hit the power ball lottery as well. But for the starry eyed IBOs, I simply have a few questions for you to ponder. A few realistic questions that you should be asking yourself. The answers to these questions will tell you a lot.<br /><br />1. Who in your group or upline truly has achieved financial freedom? Have you seen their financials or simply a display of wealth such as mansions and fancy cars? Mansions and fancy cars could just be a massive pile of debt. Not too long ago, there apparently were diamonds who had their homes foreclosed, and a triple diamond who was in bankruptcy proceedings. Find out if anyone in your group/upline has actually achieved the success that they are using to recruit you. Also, if they are financially free, why do they work at function after function? Traveling and speaking might not be a traditional job, but it is still work, nonetheless.<br /><br />2. Even if you find someone who is retired and golfing everyday because of Amway residual income, ask yourself what the likelihood is that you will be able to achieve the same results. If diamonds are still working, what chance do you have of success if you are new or experienced in Amway, and have few or no downline. More than likely, your chance of winning the lottery will be greater than your chance of achieving a significant residual income from your Amway business. Also, I don't know of any Amway retirees who built their business once and walked away with any significant residual income from Amway. Do you?Joecoolhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09121920263105613498noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8494309285043063074.post-67199590079103354912024-03-01T21:08:00.000-08:002024-03-01T21:08:53.159-08:00Mentors?<p> In the Amway business, many active IBOs and prospects are advised to trust upline. To think of upline as a coach or a mentor. These upline mentors or coaches are supposed to have your best interest at heart and they will guide you to success if only you will be open to learning, or "teachable" if you will. Many uplines, including my former uplines used to coin the term "copy" or duplicate. If you can do that you will be successful. Even the simplest of people can copy. The upline may crack a joke about getting thru school by copying. Thus, many IBOs follow exactly what their upline advises them to do.</p>But then uplines turn the responsibility away from themselves. Many Amway defenders will also claim that downline should not simply follow the advice of upline. They may make a ridiculous claim that standing orders and functions contain advice that must be discerned. That information is like a buffet. You pick and choose what you need and discard the rest. If you are a new IBO or prospect, let me tell you that is a load of guano (crap) that is being heaped on you. Your upline is touted as having experience and wisdom in the Amway business, which is why you are paying good money for voicemail, books, cds, and functions. So why would their advice be something you pick and choose? How would a new IBO know what to pick and choose? If you believe that BS, then I guess it is what it is.<br /><br />Imagine hiring a guide for a trek in the wilderness. The guide is supposed to be an experienced outdoorsman, likely an expert. So, if he recommends that you eat certain plants or fruits, you trust that he is going to guide you right. Imagine eating something that made you sick to your stomach, only to have the guide tell you that he just points out plants and fruits and you have to discern which is good for you and which is not. You would fire the guide and tell everyone you know not to use that guide anymore.<br /><br />But here we have these "systems" such as Network 21, WWDB or BWW that have been "guiding" IBOs for many years, and yet in some cases, and the number of diamonds are negligible. Sure, there are many new platinums, but many tool consuming platinums have been found to be losing money or making very little money for their efforts. What's more, it would appear that Amway is losing ground based on sales. One can reasonably guess that any new platinums that break are simply replacing the volume for a platinum that no longer exists or a platinum that no longer qualifies. My former upline diamond appears to have all new qualifying platinums from the time I was in the business and here's the kicker. My former diamond had 6 downline rubies. As far as I know, none of these rubies are qualified as platinum anymore. How do you "walk away" from Amway when you can't retain your downline leaders?<br /><br />Uplines also program their downline to take responsibility for the failure. Thus, you have IBOs who did everything that was asked of them, only to fail. Yet these IBOs often blame themselves for their failure. It is my opinion that former IBOs who did everything asked of them only to fail should file a formal complaint against their LOS with the better business bureau. Amway defenders like to think that a lack of formal complaints means that the system works when clearly, there is no unbiased substantial evidence to suggest that the system works. It looks like some succeed in spite of the system, not because of.<br /><br />The catch in all this is uplines skirting responsibility for the outcomes of those they "mentor" and profit from. IBOs should ask if upline really cared about their success, why do you have to pay for any help that you receive from your upline diamond? Buy a standing order, upline profits. Buy voicemail, upline profits. Attend a meeting or function, upline profits. Read the book of the month, upline profits. Mentors generally don't charge those that they are helping.Joecoolhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09121920263105613498noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8494309285043063074.post-81972563076539974962024-02-29T17:12:00.000-08:002024-02-29T17:12:24.309-08:00Do You Have The Skills?<p> Many IBOs and Amway supporters adhere to the idea that their system works. As far as I know, there is zero unbiased evidence that the system works. The system generally consists of a website, voicemail, standing orders and seminars or functions, as well as meetings to show the plan, etc. While Amway supporters will claim that nearly everyone who succeeds is on the system, they won't mention how everyone who succeeds also has hundreds if not thousands of downlines who do not succeed, even with earnest effort in building the business using the system.</p>Edward O. Thorpe was a math professor at M.I.T. who studied and wrote a theory on Blackjack, and found that it was mathematically possible for a blackjack player to have an edge over the house in a game of blackjack. Casinos scoffed at the theory and said it was just that. A theory with no real life application. Well, Mr. Thorpe started playing small and found that his theory was correct. He was counting cards in blackjack and making consistent money. His book eventually became a best seller. The casinos were ticked off and started kicking out people who were obviously winning and counting cards. Counting cards is not illegal but casinos can refuse to allow a player on their premises. But what casinos did not notice right away, was that their profits were skyrocketing because so many people knew the theory but could not or were not capable of executing the card counting system.<br /><br />But hey, the system works so everyone should count cards for a living right? Afterall, it is proven by math that the cards will eventually favor a player and in the long run, you can make huge profits from playing blackjack. Of course not, it is ridiculous for people to think that card counting is a good way to make a buck. Not everyone has the bankroll, the skill, and the patience to succeed in card counting. Most people are better off not even trying this.<br /><br />In my informed opinion, this card counting system is just like WWDB, BWW, LTD, N21 or other Amway systems. For one thing, card counting is a proven system. The Amway systems are not. But it can be viewed as similar in that very few people can use the system and make it work. Even when hundreds of thousands may try it, very few will succeed in both Amway and card counting. In both "systems", those who do not succeed can lose thousands of dollars. In both systems, doing things right can still result in losses.<br /><br />In both systems, it is "possible" to succeed, but it is highly unlikely. The vast majority of people simply do not possess the knowledge, skills and abilities to make the systems work for them. You also need some money, some patience, and some luck in order to be a long term success. This article is not about comparing the Amway systems to gambling, it is about a person's ability to make the system work. The difference is that nobody promotes card counting as a good way to make a buck. The same holds true about Amway and their systems. It is not a good system to make money.Joecoolhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09121920263105613498noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8494309285043063074.post-82747137654498292492024-02-28T17:23:00.000-08:002024-02-28T17:23:01.641-08:00Important To Know?<p> When I was an IBO, my upline used to advise us to recruit people who had a financial need or young people who were open minded as they may not have preconceived ideas about Amway. When I was recruited, I was not where I wanted to be financially as I was in my 20's when I first got recruited by my sponsor. I believe that this is still common practice today, to look for people who are in need and then offer Amway as a solution. Sadly, Amway and the tools systems will more likely become a problem than a solution for the vast majority who try. Nearly everyone who even signs up to try the system will wind up with a net loss of income.</p>In my opinion, this is why some people defend Amway so fiercely. They accept Amway as their solution for long term financial stability and to admit that they were in error is difficult as it would not only expose the error, but it would leave the IBO as not having that "hope" of long term financial freedom. It's hard to admit you got fooled or scammed and some people will dig in and press on, hoping that success will eventually come. Hope is a powerful thing after all. However, for most, it is false hope that is pitched in recruitment meetings and functions.<br /><br />Many prospects see big dreams when the diamonds parade on stage with designer suits and talk about waking up at noon and enjoying a lifestyle chock full of luxuries. It's almost like dreaming about hitting it big in Las Vegas or winning the lottery. I can't fault prospects for wanting some of these things. I know I certainly had some of these same dreams when I was an IBO. The problem is that Amway is highly unlikely to be the vehicle that delivers these dreams. For most, a second job along with saving and investing will bring more long term success. The problem is that people don't like to wait for the long term and Amway is presented as a short cut to success.<br /><br />The sad reality is that some (maybe most) diamonds are simply putting on a show, like an illusionist or a magician. Diamonds may indeed earn a six figure income, but after taxes and other expenses such as medical insurance, a diamond is very likely to live a very middle class lifestyle. Now I'm fairly sure that a crown ambassador type may have a million dollar income, but these Amway crowns are very rare, and the ones who exist have been in the business for a long time. There is not much chance of any new IBO coming in and achieving that level. In fact as time rolls on, it seems that more diamonds drop out due to divorce, better MLM opportunities or simply quit. It is apparent that long term residual income is a myth. Why do crowns seemingly keep working (or die on the job) if they could "walk away" and live a life of luxury with no worries?<br /><br />Amway reports that the average IBO earns $202 a month. I believe that number is also questionable as "most" IBOs (as shown in 6-4-2) actually earn more like $9 or $10 a month. Is this what you are signing up for? Don't forget about the ongoing expenses for tools and functions which results in net losses for most who get involved.<br /><br />Amway prospects can benefit by knowing this before signing up.Joecoolhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09121920263105613498noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8494309285043063074.post-7504291680821572842024-02-27T20:19:00.000-08:002024-02-27T20:19:49.516-08:00The Bait And Switch?<p> I believe Amway is used as a bait and switch scam by the diamonds and other higher up pins. They show off luxurious lifestyles, mansions, sports cars, jet skis and other displays of wealth. Most of us familiar with the pitch have heard the lines before. 2-5 years, part time effort, built it right, build it once. Do what we did, and you can have what we have (quotes from a diamond). Early retirement, making major purchases in cash, financial freedom. I mean, who wouldn't want that? Apparently, many do and are willing to give Amway a shot, even if they think their chances might not be good. I believe the same reasoning goes into increased purchases right before the Powerball lottery numbers are released.</p>But the insidious part of the Amway business is that the diamonds lure people into the business under the pretenses that "anyone can succeed" or that everyone can succeed, but only if you follow their foolproof "system" consisting of cds, voicemail, books, seminars and what some call "the core steps". What is really disgusting about this entire process is that so many good and talented people have come and gone through the system, only to fail, despite doing what they were advised or told to do by upline. My former sponsor for example, sponsored over 100 people and was uber hard core for many years. He peaked at platinum (non Q12) and fell back and has never reached that level again. It definitely was not due to a lack of effort or not doing things right.<br /><br />My sponsor was not alone. I did what was advised and went up to 4000 PV, only to find that there was no net profit. I wised up and got out of the business shortly after that. The truly sad thing is that many people hang onto Amway because they feel like failures if they leave or that they have no other hope of financial success without Amway. This is also a byproduct of upline teaching that most of us have no chance to be financially successful without Amway. Ironically, the vast majority of people would be no worse for wear or better off without any brush with Amway. Most people snap out of it quickly, but some people bite hard like my former sponsor, who is still toiling away after more than 20 years. What's worse is my sponsor was/is a physician and he is probably farther away from financial freedom than most people is a similar occupation.<br /><br />So, in summarizing the scam, the diamonds lure people into Amway with great displays of luxury and wealth. They say that anyone and everyone can possibly achieve the same by following their system and by participating in their tools system (cds, books, seminars). What ticks me off is that these hucksters claim all the credit for any tiny amounts of success but blame anything less than success on the individual. They'll call it personal responsibility. These diamonds are liars and cheats. They have never been held accountable for the failures of even the most earnest of IBOs who followed their system. The excuse being that the IBO did not work hard enough, or they didn't do thing exactly right. That is total BS.<br /><br />The vast majority of people fail in Amway because Amway is designed that way. Their common 6-4-2 plan consists of 79 IBOs. One is a platinum and the rest are not. When you consider that these 79 IBOs are all active and receiving bonuses, this is not a realistic group. A more realistic group will be 200 or more downline IBOs. Many doing little or nothing and the rest scraping up enough PV to make someone a platinum. Thus, one two hundred is one half of one percent. And that's below the going average of success for someone reaching platinum, and this was confirmed on Amway.com. According to Amway, about 1/4 of 1% reach platinum. Imagine the rate of success for diamond? It's a tiny fraction of one percent. And that's just to reach diamond, not to maintain it.<br /><br />Come join Amway and get rich. That's the pitch. The reality is the diamonds and above are getting rich selling their downline training on how to success in Amway. A classic bait and switch scam. The tools business is the "real" business with higher profit margins than Amway products and less people sharing in the profits. Amway is just the front for the tools business to exist. I believe this post clearly explains how Amway is used as a bait and switch scam. Beware!<br />Joecoolhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09121920263105613498noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8494309285043063074.post-6554717100777625432024-02-26T16:51:00.000-08:002024-02-26T16:51:15.742-08:00The Legality Issues?<p> Amway is a legal company. They were investigated by the FTC back in 1979 and the FTC ruled that Amway was not an illegal pyramid because they did not pay for recruiting (headhunting fees) and they required product purchases. Also, there are no required purchases and Amway has a fairly generous refund policy. So yes, by the letter of the law Amway appears to be a perfectly legal MLM company. What is not true is that the better business bureau (BBB) endorses Amway or that the FTC "praised" Amway after the 1979 ruling. In fact, Amway was fined in 1986 for deceptive income claims.</p>However, that being said, doesn't mean that Amway IBOs and IBO leaders can't run their independent businesses in an illegal and unethical manner. For example, if your upline tells you not to sell anything and to simply buy your volume to qualify for bonuses, that is a very questionable practice. If your upline tells you to deceive people about the Amway opportunity or teaches "fake it till you make it", that is also a questionable practice. In what business can you rely on deception and hope to make it a long term and sustainable success? Think about that seriously for a minute. In some ways, it's laughable and yet it's a WTH moment as well.<br /><br />Amway the company has some standards that they uphold but at times, Amway IBOs or IBO leaders will disregard those standards. New IBOs and prospects at times may not know when their upline or sponsor is leading them astray, which is what prompted me to write this post. If you are taught to "submit to upline", keep in mind that you are an independent business owner and will be responsible for what happens with your business. Too many times I've seen or heard of IBOs failing and accepting the responsibility all the while following the "experienced" advice given by upline. What is troubling is that many serious IBOs will be paying for advice from upline in the form of functions, seminars, cds/audios of the week, open meetings. Yet when followed advice fails, upline will tell the IBO they are responsible for their own failure. Seriously?<br /><br />Some IBOs I've known stayed in Amway for many years, spent tens of thousands of dollars or more and have not made a cent in net profit. They have been programmed to think that they will succeed if they never quit or that success is right around the corner, and they can't quit because they don't want to quit just before the business pays off. In the end, a business is a business and IBOs need to look at their bottom line. If you aren't making a net profit after following the plan and advice mapped out by upline, there comes a point where tough business decisions must be made. Maybe Amway is not the way. Maybe it's time to do something else? Nobody can make that decision except the business owner. Look at the facts. If you aren't making a net profit, perhaps your business isn't as viable as you think?<br /><br />To summarize, the Amway corporation appears to be perfectly legal but your sponsor or your upline can be running things illegally without Amway's knowledge, which can cause you financial damages. New IBOs and people who are looking into the business need to be aware of these facts. If you question upline and don't receive a straight answer, that should send up all kinds of red flags immediately.Joecoolhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09121920263105613498noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8494309285043063074.post-60422041330457403862024-02-25T20:31:00.000-08:002024-02-25T20:31:17.027-08:00Does Anything Ever Change?<p> If I'm not mistaken, Amway was booming in the mid 90's. Their sales had hit a new high of around 7 billion at that time. Recruitment was up and there seemed to be new diamonds and emeralds popping up all over the US. I joined the Amway business around 1997-1998 and the wave was still going. I later quit, discovered the lies and fraud that was used to entice me to join and eventually became an advocate for the truth about the AMOs (AMO = Amway Motivational Organization such as WWDB, BWW, etc) and some of the AMO leaders.</p>One of the things used by Amway defenders is that the experience of people who are critical of Amway are invalid because the experience may be dated, or because some people who are critical of Amway have never actually been IBOs. I don't buy that argument because you can be quite knowledgeable about certain things without having done them. I know that I would not put my hand on a hot stove because my hand would get burned. Even if I have never burned my hand on a stove before, I know this. Or if I burned my hand on a stove 15 years ago, would my experience be different if I put my hand on a hot stove now? Unlikely. I also know that jumping off a 10-story building would not be good for my health, although I haven't done it myself.<br /><br />Yes, the Amway business has undergone some changes over the years. Most groups do not use the call in and pickup method of product movement anymore, although my understanding is that some groups still do this for standing orders and other tools. There is accreditation process for the tools which may have helped, but even with this, there is evidence of unethical practices going on, just that these issues are going on small meetings rather than recorded functions. This is because uplines can say things in small meetings that they cannot say on a big stage where the speech might be recorded. Many groups still focus on recruiting new IBOs and not on selling products for a profit. Many groups still focus on selling their downline tools and not ensuring profitability for new IBOs.<br /><br />My former group, WWDB, apparently still has many of the leaders who were present when I was an IBO. There have been very few new diamonds in the last 25 years or so, relative to the number of IBOs that have come and gone. The lies and deception by the upline leaders were never accounted for. They have been exposed as basically frauds. Leaders who taught "pay by cash only" are found to have debts they cannot pay. leaders who swore that Amway saved marriages are getting divorced. Those who swore that tools were the key to success have little or no success to show for all the tools they sold. There is little "fruit on the tree", which was a common phrase back in my IBO days. The tree is close to barren.<br /><br />What has changed in the Amway business in the last 15 to 20 years other than a name change to Quixtar and then back to Amway? Not much when you look at the big picture. The masses are still losing money today. Success rates are tiny fractions of 1% and nothing of note that I'm aware of has changed to make Amway and it's business opportunity any better, as far as I know. Joecoolhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09121920263105613498noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8494309285043063074.post-15656630751552419102024-02-24T20:13:00.000-08:002024-02-24T20:13:54.380-08:00Joecool Or Your Upline?<p> Who does more good as a whole for society? Joecool, who posts personal experiences, facts, and informed opinions about Amway, which allows IBOs to make informed decisions about whether or not to get involved in the Amway opportunity, or an upline who fills a prospect's head full of dreams and fantasies that will never come true? I certainly do not encourage anyone to quit or not to join, my goal is to provide information which will allow an IBO or information seeker to have full disclosure before committing time and/or money into this business venture. I feel I am qualified to speak on the matter, having been an IBO and having built my business to the 4000 PV level. Most people agree that due diligence is a must for anyone wanting to start a business venture.</p>When you think about it, Amway IBOs can actually unintentionally contribute to a downturn in their local economy. You see, an IBO now spends about $300 a month or more on products that they get from Amway, a Michigan based company. Those purchases would otherwise have been able to go to local grocery stores or local retailers. Those purchases would help pay the local workers. Secondarily, IBOs who spend several hundreds of dollars on conventions and meetings and standing orders, voicemail, etc, end up channeling more money to their uplines somewhere. Thus, instead of movies or a sit down dinner at a local restaurant, IBOs send that money elsewhere and that also affects the local economy. It's great for Amway but I'm fairly certain that the impact on the local economy can add up after some time passes.<br /><br />This would be different if many IBOs actually made tons of money to be able to enjoy luxuries at home and to be able to bless local charities. I have heard many times about IBOs being told to defer donating time and money to charity because when they eventually go diamond, they can then donate ten thousand dollar checks to their church. Sadly, so few people ever make a significant income from Amway, and out of those who do, I wonder how many ever make good on that promise to donate ten thousand dollar checks? I suspect the answer is very few. Instead, it appears that many diamonds would rather provide for their own pleasure based on the kinds of toys and luxuries they show off at functions. Around 2009, a triple diamond declared chapter 7 bankruptcy and his income taxes and things were made public. I saw no $10,000 donations to charity. In fact, despite a near million dollar annual income, I don't believe the diamond had even donated anywhere near $10,000 to charity, total. That means for all the big talk, this diamond gave less than 1% of his gross income to charity. (all talk but no walk?)<br /><br />So who does more good? A Joecool who provides free information that can help people? Or uplines who may lie or deceive people into joining so they can make hefty profits from selling them tools?Joecoolhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09121920263105613498noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8494309285043063074.post-66960810846594019002024-02-23T12:30:00.000-08:002024-02-23T12:30:36.588-08:00The Truth?<p> One of the things that irks me about some Amway leaders is their blatant revisionist history. They never take responsibility for anything except for the tiny amounts of success that seeps through their system. Real problems and issues are ignored, or leaders pretend they never happened, or they simply rewrite history to fit their goals and agendas. And to make matters worse, these same leaders teach their downline to accept personal responsibility for their failures, even when downline faithfully purchase and apply teaching from tools such as voicemail, standing orders and functions. And despite this, the faithful downline revere these leaders, treating them like rock stars.</p>One good example was the complete lie that nobody made profits from tools. Then when caught red handed, leaders now admit that they make profits from tools, but nobody seems to know exactly how much, or how you actually qualify to receive compensation. And there was no backlash for having told such blatant lies. When I was an IBO, these leaders stood on stage and said that nobody made profits from tool, and in fact, any profit was incidental and that profit was reinvested into WWDB to make future functions more affordable. (Where's my rolling eyes emoji?)<br /><br />Leaders in my former LOS, WWDB used to teach how so few IBO couples ever gets divorced. I heard that Amway couples had a 2% divorce rate as compared to the rest of the world where over 50% of couples get divorced. Yet, WWDB uses their own revisionist history. One really good example is diamond Howie Danzik, who WWDB says built his business as a single and later married Theresa Tsuruda. I guess I must have imagined the emerald function I attended where Howie and his wife at the time, Susan, said they built the business together. There are other examples of this, but what amazes me is how the downlines seem to ignore these facts.<br /><br />Another recent example was how an IBO insisted that a prominent triple diamond in WWBD did not have homes foreclosed or was not involved in bankruptcy proceedings, even when there are numerous public documents providing ample evidence that it is true. It's mind boggling. If Tiger Woods were a diamond and denied that he had any affairs, I bet his downline would believe him as well. Scary.<br /><br />I just have to wonder when IBOs, who dedicate themselves to various systems, will ever hold these leaders accountable for their actions. If you buy a television and it didn't work, you would ask for a refund. Well, if those standing orders and functions contain vital information and you apply them and they don't work, you should ask for a refund as well. People should also ask upline the tough questions. If someone gives you bad advice, they should be held accountable. If someone tells you buying a home with a mortgage is stupid because of the interest you will pay, then you find out they have "interest only loans", that makes them a hypocrite and their advice should be questioned.<br /><br />Don't allow these well compensated leaders to simply rewrite history to ignore their mistakes and transgressions. While nobody is perfect, these leaders need to be held to account.Joecoolhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09121920263105613498noreply@blogger.com2tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8494309285043063074.post-42658848385753481822024-02-22T19:52:00.000-08:002024-02-22T19:52:34.968-08:00Amway Changed My Life?<p> One of the things that was heavily promoted when I was an Amway IBO, and I believe is still promoted, is the control of time and money. I recall hearing that "broke" people often have lots of time, but can't do much because of a lack of money, or how a very hard-working man might have money but a lack of time as he is working 80 hours per week. So why not join Amway, work hard for 2-5 years and have all the time and money you need for life? Residual, willable, walk away income right? Who wouldn't want that?</p>Well, it all sounds good on the surface, but how many people actually do that? I don't know of any IBO who worked the business 2-5 years and walked away from their business to enjoy control of time and money forever. And there are reasons for that. Attrition. Most IBOs who join don't do much and more than half of all IBOs won't even be in business for more than a year. IBOs also need to be active and moving side volume in order to qualify for some of the bonuses. It is why I believe that there aren't any diamonds who left to enjoy their time and money because of passive ongoing Amway income. Diamonds and above must continually work the business or their businesses will fall apart like the waves would erode a sandcastle at the beach.<br /><br />For many IBOs ironically, what they desire most, time and money, is what they have less of because of their involvement in the Amway opportunity. It is because of the way many IBOs are taught by the systems such as WWDB, BWW or N21. Many of these groups will teach a defacto PV requirement of 100 PV which costs about $300 monthly. In some cases, you are getting a small box of goods for the same amount of cash that would have gotten you a cartload of goods at Wal Mart or Costco. For system IBOs, you are also paying for instruction that basically tells you that this is a great idea and that you should never quit.<br /><br />So now when your family and friends have backyard barbeques or birthday parties, you are absent because you are securing your financial future. Your kids surely won't mind you missing their baseball games or sending them to the sitters while you attend a function. Your family and friends will be wowed when you retire next year and throw them a part to end all parties. It all seems surreal, and for most, it truly is. There may be $10 or even $50 monthly checks rolling in from Amway but is never covers the cost of your expenses. You can't quit because success might be right around the corner.<br /><br />Suddenly your sponsor or upline might tell you that the Amway business is not about money. You might be told that you are a nicer person or a better parent (even if you neglect your kids to attend functions), or that the business opportunity has saved your marriage. Which leads to my question. What have you achieved in the Amway business that has given you more control of time and money? Do you have less time and money as a result of your involvement with Amway? And the most important question is why did you join if not for more money? To have upline toss out a distraction that Amway isn't about money is total BS. You would not have joined if not for a pitch about money so don't let upline distract and try to appease your goals and desires with lies about Amway is not about money.<br /><br />During my involvement with Amway, my life was changed, but not for the better. And it wasn't because of Amway. It was self serving teaching by WWDB leaders designed to suck the life out of IBOs. We were to attend all meetings. All means all. We were to submit to upline. Check your ego at the door. We were to buy extra tapes/cds because you can't listen to the same ones each day. Wives and husbands needed separate standing orders. If downline quit, you don't cancel standing order. It is why I saw crosslines go bankrupt, lose a home to foreclosure and many ended up quitting and with large financial loss.<br /><br />I hope this message of personal experience helps information seekers.Joecoolhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09121920263105613498noreply@blogger.com4tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8494309285043063074.post-55992830695969855832024-02-21T20:49:00.000-08:002024-02-21T20:49:28.583-08:00Business Equity?<p> <span style="background-color: white; caret-color: rgb(51, 51, 51); color: #333333; font-size: 14.85px;">Many people see the Amway plan. Some prospects sign up in the hopes that additional Amway income will help them fulfill their dreams and that they will walk away from their jobs and collect lifelong residual income while walking the beaches of the world. Sadly, most IBOs will never even sponsor a single downline and many will not sell a single product to a non IBO customer. These IBOs may continue in the business for a while but will eventually quit when they see the writing on the wall. The fact that many people sign up and do little or nothing is a problem that seems to go ignored by many. Why would you be hyped up about working 2-5 years then being set for life, only to end up doing little to nothing then quitting? </span></p><span face="Arial, Tahoma, Helvetica, FreeSans, sans-serif" style="background-color: white; caret-color: rgb(51, 51, 51); color: #333333; font-size: 14.85px;">But wait, you're an "independent business owner". So instead of quitting, why not sell your Amway business? I wonder if any IBOs actually think about what their business is worth. I mean a diamond could sell their business and live large happily ever after right? Here's some food for thought. Why are there instance of diamonds quitting or resigning from Amway? Why would they just quit when they could either walk away and collect an income "forever" or sell the business? What would an Amway business be worth? You don't really own equipment or a building. You probably don't have employees. Your Amway business likely has little or no equity. You don't own your downline, although their volume passes through your business. But if they do nothing, you get nothing, which is why people cannot just "walk away" and collect income forever. </span><br style="caret-color: rgb(51, 51, 51); color: #333333; font-family: Arial, Tahoma, Helvetica, FreeSans, sans-serif; font-size: 14.85px;" /><br style="caret-color: rgb(51, 51, 51); color: #333333; font-family: Arial, Tahoma, Helvetica, FreeSans, sans-serif; font-size: 14.85px;" /><span face="Arial, Tahoma, Helvetica, FreeSans, sans-serif" style="background-color: white; caret-color: rgb(51, 51, 51); color: #333333; font-size: 14.85px;">I believe diamonds quit and resign because their business is worth very little or nothing. And most Amway businesses do not even generate a net profit. For IBOs who are seriously pondering on this very important message, try looking up this topic in Amway's rules. There are very complicated steps to be taken when selling your Amway business as each person upline must be offered ownership (To the best of my understanding). This process can go on for a long time and the attrition of your business could render it worthless before you can find a buyer, if you have a buyer at all. Also, if you quit, the downline in your group would be surrendered to the immediate upline anyway. So why would your upline want to buy your business? Why not just do nothing and let the downline be defaulted to you? </span><div><br /></div><div>Given these rules, it seems silly and a bad business decision for any of your upline to buy your Amway business if they inherit all of your downline if you quit. Besides, your business is what exactly? Your Amway business is just a spot on the proverbial pyramid, in my opinion. <br style="caret-color: rgb(51, 51, 51); color: #333333; font-size: 14.85px;" /><br style="caret-color: rgb(51, 51, 51); color: #333333; font-family: Arial, Tahoma, Helvetica, FreeSans, sans-serif; font-size: 14.85px;" /><span face="Arial, Tahoma, Helvetica, FreeSans, sans-serif" style="background-color: white; caret-color: rgb(51, 51, 51); color: #333333; font-size: 14.85px;">So IBOs, I ask you. What is your business worth? Food for thought....</span></div>Joecoolhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09121920263105613498noreply@blogger.com0