Amway - The Dream Or The Scheme?

Why Do People Quit Amway?

2012-01-28T10:45:00.000-08:00

When I was a prospect for the Amway business, my sponsor told me that the diamond was in the top one tenth of one percent in income. Now it may or may not have been true but the audience certainly figured the diamond was wealthy. He (The diamond) arrived at the open meeting in a nice suit and a Mercedes Benz. He spoke about common sense things that people could relate to. That Americans are commonly carrying credit card debt and that inflation and insurance and other things took a bite out of your income. He spoke about waking up when you felt like it, flushing the job and your boss. He spoke about doing what you want when you want.

It sounded great. He explained that with 10-12 hours per week of work, you can do all of this in 2-5 years. With so much to gain, you would think everyone would do this and become "free".

In debating with Amway apologists, they often claim that most IBOs "do nothing". I don't believe that. First of all, I would challenge anyone to explain how they would know if someone did a little, or did nothing. Maybe the new IBO spoke to family and friends about the business and got laughed out of the room and ending up discouraged and quit. Maybe some truly do nothing. Maybe some try very hard only to get negligible results. But to claim that most IBOs do nothing is nothing more than a convenient excuse for Amwayers to justify the miserable results their IBOs end up with.

In my case, I did work hard. I sponsored a dozen people personally. I had some downline who sponsored and we moved volume. But as I moved up pin levels, I was encouraged to buy more tools and do more work. My reward for all that work? I just about broke even or took losses. That isn't factoring in my time and other expenses such as gas money. When I reached the 4000 PV level, I was at break even. My sponsor told me to just keep going and the money would be there. I calculated what my bottom line would be at platinum and I still could not see a profit on the horizon. I eventually decided that the Amway business simply wasn't profitable so I left. Not to mention at the time, uplines lied and said nobody made profits on tools.

So why do people quit Amway? In my experience and from years of contact with current and former IBOs, it is my conclusion that most IBOs at least give Amway a try before they quit. There is so muc negative about Amway on the net and in society that people can get discouraged and even those who work hard are likely to end up as I did. Yes, it's possible to make some money in Amway, but the tools scam will usually negate any profit an IBO might earn. I believe that people quit Amway having tried and gotten discouraged, or having tried, gotten results only to have a net loss. It's not the fault of the IBO. The Amway and the motivational groups such as WWDB or Network 21 are simply set up that way.

You Gotta Believe!

2012-01-27T10:19:00.000-08:00

In the past, and I believe still today, some leaders in motivational groups talk about faith and belief. Speak it into existence. Some of this is the talk amongst IBOs who believe they are going diamond. Never mind that statistically, your chance of winning the lottery might be better than going diamond in Amway. In fact, I believe there have been more powerball lottery winners than new Amway diamonds in the US and Canada in recent years. But an honest question for IBOs, prospects, and Amway supporters. Do you truly believe that this business works and that you will succeed? What evidence do you see that supports this belief? My old LOS, WWDB, has fewer diamonds now than 15 years ago. Some diamonds quit WWDB!

If you truly believe, would you feel confident walking into a bank and meeting a loan officer. Tell the loan officer that all you do is sponsor 6 who sponsor 4 who sponsor 2 and you will be a new platinum (silver). Then all you need is 6 of these groups and the money will roll in forever while you sit on a beach in the Bahamas sipping exotic drinks while money rolls in by the barrelfull. And then ask the loan offier for a business loan. If you think this suggestion is crazy, maybe you don't truly believe in the business. Surely a loan officer would have some financial acumen and would be able to determine the viability of the business prior to approving a loan.

Would you feel comfortable talking to your doctor about joining Amway because a diamond makes much more income with less effort? How about a business professor at your local university? Surely someone with an established expertise in business would see the value of an Amway business and join your efforts? Or would the professor laugh you out of his office? Do you truly believe in what you do? If so, do you use the curiosity approach or are you straight up with prospects and invite them to an Amway meeting? If it's the latter and not the former, maybe your belief isn't that strong?

How hard do you work at building your business? If you truly believe that going diamond is the answer to all of life's challenges and problems, why aren't you building it and working on it as if your very life depended on it? Maybe your belief isn't what you think it is? Are you adding people to your downline every week or month? If not, maybe your belief isn't what you think it is?

If you have some doubts about what you are doing, then it is probably because you see IBOs coming and going. Maybe you see monthly losses in your business. Maybe you see people quitting the business regularly. Maybe you see the same old leaders on stage giving the same rah rah speeches. Maybe you see the logic and the common sense in most of the articles posted on this blog. My blog isn't here to make anyone quit Amway. My blog is to provide information to information seekers and to assist people in making informed decisions if they seek information prior to joining Amway and a motivational group such as WWDB or BWW.

Do you truly believe in what you're doing? Joecool truly believes in what he blogs about.

Dead or Broke By Age 65 - An Amway Myth Debunked?

2012-01-26T09:11:00.000-08:00

Below, I have posted a recent article indicating that about 1/4 of Americans are working beyond the age of 65. That certainly debunks the IBO myth that 98% of people are dead or broke by age 65. It should be noted that the older folks still working make very good money. More food for thought should be how you as an IBO will benefit from the Amway business if you are not making money or if you are losing money due to continuous purchases of "educational" materials.

http://www.usnews.com/money/blogs/planning-to-retire/2009/7/14/a-quarter-of-americans-still-work-after-age-65.html

A Quarter of Americans Still Work After Age 65
Comment By Emily Brandon

Posted: July 14, 2009

Retirement is a thing of the past for a quarter of Americans over age 65. Just over 25 percent of those between ages 65 and 74 were still working in 2008, according to the latest Census Bureau numbers. And amazingly 9 percent of Americans still go to work between ages 75 and 84. After age 85, the number still working trickles down to 3 percent or about 122,000 people who continue to hammer away at their keyboard or punch in with their time clock.

Most people over age 65 still in the workforce are professionals (20 percent) or hold management positions (19 percent). A large portion of seniors also work in the service industry (18 percent) and sales (15 percent) or have office jobs (12 percent). But a few retirees also manage to do sometimes strenuous jobs such as production and transportation (12 percent) or construction and maintenance (5 percent).

Many of the seniors who continue to work full time have earnings at the top of the pay scale. About 20 percent of those age 65 and over make over $75,000 annually and just over half (53 percent) earn between $25,000 and $75,000 from work. Slightly over a quarter of those working full time in retirement make less than $25,000 annually.

Seems this is just a myth perpetuated by AMO leaders. Possibly to scare people into thinking they should consider Amway as a solution.

Amway Financial Freedom?

2012-01-24T09:46:00.001-08:00

When I was an IBO, I often saw my upline diamond driving around town dressed in a business suit. I used to wonder why he keeps working if he can "walk away" and collect residual income? My sponsor told me that the diamond only works because he cares about his downline and wants to help them. So there are two possible scenarios, the diamond is working to help his downline out of a genuine concern for them, or possibly he is working because he has to! The only difference now is that the diamond works the nite and/or graveyard shift, because many IBOs are building the business after the complete their day jobs. This is probably why diamonds sleep until the "crack of noon", because they are working all night!

Now Amway has stated that the average diamond earns about $147,000 a year. That is a decent income, but after yaxes and paying for basic expenses such as medical and dental insurance, the average diamond probably lives a very middle class lifestyle. Keep in mind that a large portion of a diamond's income comes in the form of an annual bonus, thus a diamond's monthly income may be quite small. Yes, diamonds may have other sources of income such as speaking engagements and income from standing orders and functions. But this income depends on the diamond's continued appearances and efforts.

So is it likely that a diamond is "free"? I would have to conclude that a diamond is not free, and may actually have to spend more time maintaining his group than if the diamond simply had a 9-5 job. For one thing, a diamond needs to maintain a personal group to keep qualifying for bonuses. With a poor retention rate in Amway, I am fairly sure that a diamond spends much time recruiting personally sponsored IBOs to maintain this group. Additionally, a diamond must help his six or more groups of downline platinums to maintain their businesses or face the possibility of falling out of qualification. My former diamond dropped down to the emerald level but has since re-qualified at diamond. A diamond must also dedicate time to reward up and coming movers and shakers, to keep them motivated. I got to spend time with my upline diamond when I was considered a promising up and coming pin.

In order to continue to receive tools income, a diamond must also travel to numerous functions and speaking engagements. Although the tools income allegedly doubles a diamond's income, it also adds a lot of expenses, especially if the diamond and his family travel first class to show off the diamond lifestyle, and stays in 5 star hotels. It is probably why diamonds need free transportation to and from the airport and why they stay with friends when traveling as much as possible.

After breaking down projected income and considering projected expenses, I can only conclude that a diamond probably lives a middle to upper middle class lifestyle, and probably works as much as a man with a 9-5 job, except that a diamond works nites and weekends. A good portrait of this is shown in Ruth Carter's book (Amway Motivational Organizations: Behind The Smoke and Mirrors). In the book, the diamond had a net income of over $300,000, but lived in debt, could barely pay his mortgage, and was always on the run from one function to the next. It is very expensive and time consuming to travel from city to city showing off your freedom and diamond lifestyle.

Is this the freedom you are seeking?

My Upline Really Wants Me To Succeed?

2012-01-22T13:51:00.000-08:00

One of the biggest loads of guano that upline diamonds often tell their groups is that they really want success for their downline IBOs. The obvious to me is that your upline diamond doesn't give a rat's ass about your success as long as you are buying tools and attendin functions. Your dedication is money in the bank for the upline diamonds. They will tell you that you are a warrior or a fighter to make you feel good, but behimd the scenes they could care less.

Now I believe your sponsor probably does care about you succeeding, but technically, your sponsor is supposed to train and motivate you free of cost, which is why your sponsor can benefit if you purchase or move enough volume. The problem with this is that your sponsor is also very likely to be immersed in the tools system which takes away income from his/her business to feed the upline diamond.

If you take a close notice, you will see that the advice given from stage at functions o big meetings are so generic that it usually does not apply to you as a person and if so generic, then you can get that same advice on an MP3 or a cd. Yet, the diamonds expect IBOs to attend major functions every three months. I suppose to supplement their Amway income. These diamonds are not mentors. They don't analyze individual businesses and your personal skills. How can they guide you in this type of business without knowing these details? They can't.

Think about it. Your upline wants your success or do they want your money? Practically anytime you receive "help", it costs you. Open meetings, attitude sessions, functions. Every one of these has a cost of time and money with no direct cause and effect of people succeeding and receiving the mythical residual income. If your upline says this, ask how they can assure that it happens, aside from a dedication to functions and cds?

Food for thought. If you actually went diamond, your leaders would get less tool money. Do they really want your success or are they just saying it?

Amway IBOs Miss The Obvious?

2012-01-20T22:25:00.000-08:00

It is my feeling that most IBOs and prospects are likely nice people, motivated to want more out of life, and willing to do some work. Sadly for most, their experience in Amway is making nothing or losing money, likely because of the tools and functions that are promoted by the upline. I applaud IBOs and prospects for being willing to do something to make more money for their families, but all too many IBOs and prospects simply miss the obvious red flags and get sucked into a system where they cannot win.
I was an IBO at one time. I had ambitions and dreams, many of which I accomplished after leaving Amway.

Let me explain. If you buy some lottery tickets, you do so hoping to win but you know realistically that your chances of of winning the big jackpot or some significant prize is slim to none. While Amway isn't a game of chance, your chance of success is very slim. We know that many IBOs sign up and do nothing. We know that many IBOs may try but end up quitting very soon after starting. We know that few IBOs ever last more than a few years. Knowing that, you can assess that long term sustainable success in Amway is difficult at best.

But it's obvious to those in the know when you see the "plan". If you see one person become a platinum with 78 downline (in the common 6-4-2 plna), and you know that many do nothing or do a little and quit, then you know that you need to have maybe 200 IBOs go thru your business to become a platinum, and who knows how hard it will be to maintain that level. My former sponsor was a platinum but never hit Q12 and often fell below 7500 PV. Last I heard, he was 2500 PV after nearly 20 years in the business. Factoring in tools and business expenses, I believe the net losses of my former sponsor is staggering. And my former sponsor was able to personally sponsor over 100 downline.

The next obvious thing that IBOs and prospects miss is the functions. If you've been around or attended functions, you'll likely see an audience of thousands with one or a couple of speakers. That will probably never change. ANd if you can assess that situation, you can see that only 1 in thousands will ever reach thet coveted diamond level.

While Amway apologists claim that many people sign up to get products and to make a few dollars a month, I think that is total BS. Have any of you ever seen a presentation where your option was a buyers club membership
or where you make a $100 a month? I saw yachts and mansions and talk about the diamond being financially free (a myth). To those who see thru the deception, the reality is obvious. It's just a matter of whether you see it or not.

Just The Facts About Amway IBOs?

2012-01-18T09:04:00.000-08:00

So many people get duped into thinking that they will somehow get wealthy by becoming an Amway IBO. Many recruiters will tell stories about how they were once broke, but signed up, endured challenges and now they are diamonds enjoying untold wealth and luxuries. People get caught up in "dreams" and are often encouraged to ignore the facts. People running businesses should pay close attention to the facts because it tells you much about your business and your likelihood of success. But what are some facts about the Amway business that many people don't know about? I have outlined a few important ones for those who harbor dreams of going diamond.

1. The average diamond, according to Amway, earns less than $150,000 a year. Yes, some of this may be supplemented with money from the sale of tools, but after taxes and business expenses such as travel to and from the many functions that a diamond attends would leave a diamond living an ordinary middle class lifestyle, not one with mansions and sports cars as portrayed in many functions or meetings. Yes, a Q12 diamond would have more earnings, but a Q12 diamond is the exception, and not the rule.

2. Most IBOs are NEVER able to sponsor a single downline. Pretty hard to develop six (6) downline platinums when most people cannot sponsor anyone.

3. Most Amway products are purchased by IBOs and not sold to customers. Name a real business that sustains itself by having it's own workers or salesforce purchase most of the goods. MLM is probably the only business where this occurs. Understandably, it explains why 99%+ Amwayers lose money.

4. For most IBOs, the cost of functions, standing orders and other support materials represent the reason why most business building IBOs lose money and it also represents a significant profit for some of the diamonds who sell the materials.

5. Not working hard is not necessarily the reason for someone's failure. But conversely, working hard does not equate success in Amway. I would guess that out of those who work hard, it is still a fraction of 1% of hard working IBOs that even attain a significant profit. Doing nothing won't get you anywhere, but in this business, working hard often gets you nowhere as well. It is my informed opinion that the cost of the support materials is the direct reason why so many IBOs lose money, even out of those who work very hard.

I could go on and on, but these are a handful of facts that IBOs and information seekers should be aware of. I welcome differing thoughts and opinions.

Amway IBOs, They Don't Work Hard Enough?

2012-01-15T21:50:00.000-08:00

I believe there's a gigantic myth that people who ultimately fail in Amway simply didn't work hard enough and ended up quitting too early. Based on personal experience and observatioons of others, I truly that that to be true. Now I agree that many IBOs do nothing, but generally, these folks don't complain and their losses are generally limited to the sign up fee or kit. Most do not seek refunds and chalk up the loss as a learning experience.

I myself, put in some months of very dedicated work towards building a business. I had a decent sized group and was headed for platinum. But the fact of the matter is that even though my group was growing, I wasn't making a net profit. I seriously doubt that any of my downline made a net profit, primarily because of the business and tools expenses. I drove the miles, I showed the plan and I attended all the meetings and functions. I did what I was advised by my upline. My net profit at 4000 PV was little to nothing with a net loss when all the business expenses were factored i such as gas money, etc.

My upline also did a lot of work, and he put in the hours, drove the miles and attended everything. He told me his net profit was not any of my business. (If you hear that, it's a huge red flag). I suspect my upline and sponsor also broke even or lost money despite working very hard and doing what they were advised to. I later read the assessment made by the Wisconsin attorney general Bruce Craig, who examined the tax returns of platinums in his state and they averaged a net annual loss of $900. While the study is a bit dated, the business has not really changed except that there are more expenses and tools associated with the business today, then back when the study occured.

I also question the validity of Amway defenders who claim that people did not work hard enough or did not run their business properly. I seriously doubt that anyone has done a comprehenseive study of people who actually made an effort to build an Amway business, to determine why they may not have the success they desired. However, I can make my own conclusions. Many IBOs are taught to buy from themselves with little sales. They're taught to buy tools, even when they aren't making progress in the business. People who are struggling in Amway are often told that they need to sponsor more people, show more plans. (A struggling business opens new stores to improve business?).

In my opinion, hard work and success in Amway have little relationship. Sure, there is work needed. But working hard doesn't assure you of anything. You need to be able to develop a following. Just working hard has nothing to do with long term sustainable success. There are plenty of examples of hard workers who lost money. What I believe happens, is that IBOs get excited, get started and contact people and show plans. But Amway has the reputation of "pyramid" or "scam" and people quickly get discouraged and stop building the business. Those who try to sell AMway goods find that a month's supply of multi vitamins ($80) double x is a tough sell, or $50 cases of bottled water. They also get discouraged and quit.

Only those who can somehow recruit and replace those quit end up having a chance to grow their group large enough to sell them tools, which then makes selling Amway less important. But I don't buy for a minute that people simply do not succeed in Amway primarily because they don't work hard or smart enough. I challenge anyone to prove that a lack of work is the reason for Amway failure. The system is designed for only a few to succeed. Examine the 6-4-2, there is 1 platinum and 78 downline, and that's assuming everyone "did some work".

IBOs fail in vast quantities, but not because they don't do any work.

The Amway Business Is Built On Inconvenience And Other Nuances?

2012-01-14T13:23:00.000-08:00

Looking back at my IBO days, I can now laugh at some of the weird stuff we did and believe it or not, I have reason to believe that my old LOS, WWDB still teaches some of this and some other major groups also teach it. I believe some of these practices were the reason why some people refer to the Amway business as cult or having cult like qualities. If you recognize some of these practices, you might be in an unethical group and you should ask your upline the tough questions and possibly reconsider or reprioritize your involvement in the business.

Late meetings. Our upline was into late meetings, many occuring after midnight. I suppose it was a show of loyalty and dedication to the upline and the system. In reality, it made most people angry at their jobs because they had to wake up early to go to work. For me it made me mad at our upline because the meetings taught us nothing of substance and it just made us tired. Our upline used to talk about time being important but it was never important enough to make him show up on time for his own late night meetings. Another cult like factor - sleep deprivation. Our upline described this practice as Amway being a business of incovenience, designed to weed out the weak and undedicated.

Submission to upline was one of the things we were told. Our group was told that upline would never purposely lead us astray so we should trust them and never try anything without checking upline. Afterall, upline had experience and probably had all the answers. Some of this checking upline included asking permission to get married, buy a car or a home, or even something as small as purchasing a camera. The upline said maybe someone upline might have advice on how to get a good deal on a camera so no harm in checking upline before making a purchase. It is my guess that upline didn't want your disposable income being spent on anything other than standing orders and functions.

Secrets. Anytime we asked about how much income uplines may have been earning, we were either told it's none of our business or shown a photocopy of a 5 year old bonus check that someone upline may have received. Our proof that the business worked was upline showing off pictures of sports cars and mansions. Of course we now find that some WWDB diamonds had homes foreclosed, and one prominent triple diamond had some dealings in bankruptcy court. Looking back, I suspect that many diamonds have mortgages, which would be nor problem except that these leaders scoffed at the sutpidity of having a loan. That diamonds pay cash for everything, including homes. My former sponsor still lives in a run down rented home beause he won't purchase a home unless he's got the cash. My former sponsor is a physician so I find his position on buying a home preposterous. His oldest child, a son probably grew up deprived of his parents because of dedication to the system and the functions.

Losing money is success. Many times, our group was told that losing money was a sign of success. It was success because we were investing in our futures. That the business really is not about money but about friendships. I suppose upline taught this because everyone was losing money so it was nice to hear that success was around the corner, and that we were all nicer people and on our way to success if we just attended more functions and bought more standing orders. People who sold off some of their personal property were edified if they did so to attend a function. Obviously these folks were not advised to run their business within their means. Upline even said that going into debt was okay, but only if the debt was to invest in the business or to buy extra function tickets.

While some of these practices seem bizarre, I believe it is because the upline advice was self serving and meant to channel their downline's dollars into tool purchases. It is the only conclusion I can make.

IBOFB In Denial About Amway?

2012-01-13T10:07:00.000-08:00

Recent comment from the Unhappy Franchisee Blog:

■DoAsISay on January 12th, 2012 8:01 pm

Thanks for the reply Joecool. I realize from previous posts that IBOFB is in denial about Amway and its credibility as a company. I also can conclude that he may also have some mental issues from the brainwashing he has received over the years of being around ambots. It really is a shame that this sort of business practice can go on so long without being shut down. I have read where the MLM businesses have been sued for being deemed illegal and the only ones to survive though it all were the ones who had millions of dollars or more and highly paid attorney’s fighting against it. The reason these so called leaders teach you not to go on the internet to research Amway yourself is so you don’t find out that you will soon be brainwashed into thinking, talking, acting and eating like all of them and not even realize it. My upline suggested that we eat the food from our business and that’s it. He said to eat 2-3 bars a day and drink 2 drinks from the business. First of all, I only drink water from a faucet which cost me next to nothing. Second, I don’t think it is very healthy to just eat bars with no real food entering your body. Your body needs the nutrients from real fruits, vegetables, meats, dairy, and grains. Something that isn’t going to be supplied by only eating bars. The last thing I want to say about there sub-par products is that whoever pays $45+ for a case of “perfect” water needs some serious help. There is nothing special about that water expect the people who drink it. IBOFB, you want to know how to make more money than you did/do selling Amway? Take your empty perfect water bottles and fill them up with water from a water source, examples could be: faucet, a local stream, or even the next time it rains. This next part is tricky. Tear the label off your bottles and replace with your brand and give it a clever name like “healing water”. I know that wasn’t that clever that’s why your going to make the millions. Sell your water at $40/case because you got to be lower than the competition if you want to sell your product because you and I both know that people are price sensitive and will “usually” buy the cheaper yet comparable product over the other. You are set for life! You now “never have to worry about a dollar bill again”. O yeah, one more thing, that is all just “my opinion”. One thing I learned from the business is that if you put “in my opinion” before or after any statement you make, it’s ok to lie or stretch the truth.

Back To The Future - Amway and WWDB?

2012-01-11T12:30:00.000-08:00

I am still following the blog of a current WWDB IBO. The things he writes about indicates that the exact same teaching exists now, that existed back in the 1990's when I was an IBO. This is despite the fact that Amway implmented an accreditation of the AMOs (tool selleers) and despite claims from Amway and WWDB appologists who claim that things have changed for the better. Below is a list of excerpts from the blog that make it evident to me that WWDB and Amway are basically the same now as they were 13-14 years ago:

http://expeditionoftruths.com/

On another note, I highly doubt someone like John Maxwell would put his integrity and reputation at risk by associating with World Wide Dreambuilders, you know considering he’s the worlds greatest teacher on Leadership. But what does John know eh?

I look at the motivational and teaching conferences that World Wide Group puts on and I get excited when tickets go on sale. I get excited because I love the association and atmosphere of the whole event.

Either way I see training, conferences, motivation the same if it’s my day time job, or my part time business. I know I get more value out of WWDB events as they help move our business forward and help motivate us for the next three months. We need motivation, every one does, so what’s so wrong with that? Many people make some good money with motivational speaking and I’ll gladly pay for that if it gets me moving.

Looking forward to the future we are pumped to hit Double Eagle Ruby late next year at which time I’ll be stepping away from my job so that I never have to work for another man’s dream and give my 1st best to them. I know that we will work hard at this so that my kids will always have me at home when they need me and not have to wait for me to come home from work. I look forward to the days that we can take our kids out to the ski hill during the week day and not the weekend when it’s jam packed.

One thing I really love about being on the board or plugging guests into other plans is the atmosphere people have. I absolutely love walking into someones house where they have a dreamboard or goals written all over the place. These are people that are moving on. I’ve posted this before where if you want to achieve your dreams and goals then WRITE IT DOWN.

Our free time is slowly dwindling as our employers demand more and more of this time at the least amount they can pay us. Its sad what our society has become.
This is part of the reason why my wife and I build this business. I no longer want to be on call or be tied to my blackberry for work.
We will be attending Moving Up right before Family Reunion which we are pumped for. Moving Up is a leadership incentive for achieving Double Eagle or 7500 PV.

So we will be renting here in Edmonton for the next 2-3 years and then move out to Kelowna where we have been wanting to raise our family. As we move out there we will rent for a few more years, get an idea of where we want to build or buy a place and build it in cash. Mock me, say it won’t happen, say I’m crazy, but I will do it. The more you say I cannot do it, the more it will just fuel my fire to do it. So bring it on

This weekend we started planning for my wife’s freedom day. What is “Freedom Day” ? Freedom Day is the day that she gets the choice of working or not. Sure she could continue to work, have some other man control when she can have lunch, when she has to show up to work, how late to stay… OR, she can choose not go to work anymore and decide to wake up when she wants and pretty much do whatever she wants with her day.

A healthy business always has its ups and downs and World Wide Dreambuilders is on the rise again. Mark my words there will be people from our area and other areas going into Diamond Qualification. The people on the outside who are no longer building this business have no idea.

I think the biggest thing I took away from last night was to not let anyone steal your dream. What does that mean? Means no matter what kind of dream or goal you have set for your life don’t let someone tell you that you can’t. ‘Can’t’ is a negative/broke person’s word. ‘Can’t’ is for the weak minded people that just use excuses for their failures and they try to bring you down by telling you that you cannot do something.

Another thing more related to our business is that every business has negative stuff about it, someone is always willing to write something about anything. Check out one of the largest companies in the world, Wallmart, and do a quick search on Google about how many law suits they’ve had. All successful companies have this and Amway Global isn’t the first OR the last.

It was due to the fact my attitude and mentality has shifted from being a career focused person to an entrepreneur focused person building a business that will eventually let me walk away from my job so I can focus on other things such as my family and wife.

These guys have stepped away from their full time jobs because of this business we are in and my wife and I will also be doing the same in a very short time with hard work, determination and persistency and consistency! There is no option of failure and no option of turning back… there is only… FREEDOM!

How many times have you heard someone say “I Love My Job”? Probably a lot. You know what though, this is the biggest lie. Why? Well do you love your job more than spending time with your family? Do you love your job more than spending time with your wife? Do you love your job more than travelling to different places around the world? If you said yes, you need to get your head checked.

Wouldn’t you rather work your tail off for 2-3 years so that you can have the rest of your life to yourself so you do not have to trade time for money? Think about it.

How To Maximize Your Earnings In Amway?

2012-01-10T15:08:00.000-08:00

How to maximize your earnings in Amway? Simple, get your downline to attend more functions. Functions that you run and profit from! If your downline attends the same function twice, you earn twice as much! Even better, get your downline to make it his own idea! Our friend Shaun has been taken hook line and sinker.

http://expeditionoftruths.com/2012/01/06/2012-dream-nights/

Wait wait wait, did you say Dream Nights as in plural? More than one? That can’t be, how can you possibly go to more than one Dream Night? My upline must be forcing me or cohering me into attending more than one and after all it’s just the same thing each night. Just who does World Wide Group think they are having these multiple Dream Nights, two in Edmonton and one in Calgary, and others across Canada. But wait, there’s more! A Dream Night in Saskatoon?? What? Growth in another province? It must be all those Edmonton people driving 6 1/4 hours, 525 KM’s just to make that dream night happen earlier this week. So does that mean people are attending 4 different dream nights? When does it end? Will the excitement ever stop? I better contact Amway, World Wide Group, The Police, FTC, Alert the presses cause this is just madness.

No it’s not, it’s called growth and I have a confession to make, I attended or will be attending two Dream Nights this week. Yup, it’s true. Out of our own free will without any cohesion, guilt, pressure, etc… we attended last night and will be attending tonight. Both nights, different venue’s and different speakers, in fact because of growth they’ve had to move one of the nights to the Shaw Conference Centre. If there wasn’t growth in this area that would seem like overkill or a waste of money to put it up there don’t you think? To be honest I don’t know how many people are attending each event as I’m not function hosting and who’s going to more than one, quite frankly I don’t care. I care about my wife and our business only.

Testimonial - Amway Saves Or Destroys Marriages?

2012-01-09T16:39:00.000-08:00

http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/will-amway-make-you-annoying/comment-page-12/#comment-92192

■DoAsISay on January 8th, 2012 9:31 pm
I finally decided to search the web after being out of Amway now since February 2011. I was hesitant to do so because I had been told not to so many times by my uplines that there is negative on the internet even about Mother Teresa. That was the “line” that they used to trick me into not doing my research. I am a college graduate with a bachelors degree in accounting and I was taught to always research a company to learn more about them if you are going to be involved with them. Anyways, I am glad that I did because I now realize that I am not the only one who disagrees with Amway and their approaches to “the business”.

A little more background about my situation which I’m sure is not unique to many others who have been in Amway. My girlfriend and I were introduced to this business by a friend of my girlfriend and her husband. From the presentation that was shown to me I thought that it sounded VERY easy to do. I was told that I only needed 3 friends out of my 200 contacts in my phone to want to save money and make money at the same time. That was the first lie that I later found out. First of all, we didnt save any money. We threw away over $7000 and saw under $300 return. How exactly am I saving money? Secondly, IF, IF you get (trick) 3 friends to signed up, you have alot more work to do than that. Try 50 people and by the time u get 50 people involved, 48 of those will have quit once they finally realize that you took advantage of them and weren’t straight forward with them.

So Time went on and I hung around and observed the behaviors of people in Amway and how they talked. I said to myself, I want to be nothing like these people. They all sounded the same to me and it was just a little weird. Finally I realize that they have all been brainwashed how to think, how to spend their money, who they spend their time with, and how they spend their time. Amway with the help of the “EDUCATION” has completely taken control of the lives of many, many naive, weak minded, gullible, ignorant, or too trusting (you fill in the blank) individuals who worship their upline like they are God. Sure I thought it was cool that I knew a millionaire and got to hang out at his house and all, but Im not going to empty my bank account for anyone! How about this line…”You don’t make money FROM your friends when they get involved, Your making money WITH your friends”. WHAT?!? Last time I checked anyone you sponsor in the business, you collect their business volume from the stuff they buy and get a kickback from those purchases. I believe that’s called making money FROM your friends. They have another sneaky tactic that they use to conceal the truth. “You’re not making money from your friends, Amway is paying you for driving volume to their website. Ok, Yeah that’s still making money from your friends. Im not an idiot and your blender of words and phrases don’t have any effect on me.

Back to November 2010, I got married to my girlfriend I was in the business with and shortly after she became an Ambot as I’ve heard people refer to it. In February 2011, i had enough of it and decided to cut my loses and get out. My wife didn’t share the same thoughts and feelings though because she had been soaking in every last drop of the expensive “Education” we were receiving. Up until the point of me getting out of the business since I had known her, we NEVER had an argument. We were inseparable and much in love. That all changed as time progressed. We started disagreeing and this horrible person came out of her as I never seen before. She physically hit me on 3 occasions and we would fight, mostly her, as I like to be calm and collective. I rather reason things out by gathering the facts and explaining my perspective. Her reasoning went out the door with her mind because everything out of her mouth was something about the business.

I spent many nights home alone waiting for her to get back from those stupid waste of time meetings. Eventually in October I had enough. We got in another fight and she asked me to leave, so I did! Now supposedly when a woman says leave, that means dont leave in translation, but I took it at face value and left. We are currently separated and in the process of filing for a dissolution. I never thought Amway could destroy a marriage like that, but I’ve read so many sad stories where has done just that. Like I said, I’m sure my story isn’t a unique one, but I just wanted to share in hopes that I can TRULY HELP people steer clear of this plague. Not only will it empty your bank account, waste time you could be living your life and enjoying the company of family and true friends, it will destroy your relationships with the ones you love. These people that were in our business call themselves Christians, yet they can easily let a marriage be destroyed and not even flinch. Greed and lies are all I see in these people!

I would like to sit my wife down and show her some information so maybe, just maybe she will snap out of it, but I feel like she is so programmed at this point that I won’t be able to get her to read it. If anybody actually reads my entire story (I know its long) and has any advice on getting her out let me know. I got nothing to lose at this point since I’ve pretty much lost the love of my life.

Amway IBOs Fighting For Good And Helping People?

2012-01-07T19:14:00.000-08:00

One of the BS things our upline constantly told our group was that we were out there helping people and fighting for what is right in the world. That evil will triumph when good men fail to take action. I agree with this. That the AMOs have thrived because too many good people have ignored the problem and it hasn't gone away, only unnoticed by most. The result is probably millions of people over the years getting scammed out of their hard earned dollars via the "tool scam".

Let's dissect these issues and look at them one at a time. What exactly are you fighting as an IBO? Fighting against yourself? Your job? I know many uplines want you to think your job sucks, thus giving you motivation for joining and succeeding in Amway. Then the hook comes where they will tell you that tools are vital for your success. But you aren't fighting anything.

How about helping people? How do IBOs help people by enticing them to join Amway? While people are doing community service or other projects, IBOs are stalking people at malls looking for prospects or spening weekends at meeting and functions. How does this help anyone but the folks who profit from the functions? How are IBOs helping people? It's nice to believe that you are fighting or a cause or helping other people, but the fact is that most people make nothing or lose money by being involved in Amway, not even factoring in the time you may lose for family and friends.

I was once an IBO. I thought we were involved in a good cause. I did eventually realize that we weren't helping anyone. The only people we took interest in were potential AMway recruits. Everyone else was cannon fodder. Those who are familar have heard "some will, some won't so what? Next"!

IBOs are mostly good and hard working people. They have just been sucked into believing a false cause perpetuated by their upline. Most wake up and get out quickly as I did, but I believe the damage over the years is immense. I hope this blog provides some valuable insight for new and tenured IBOs and prospects.

If You Criticize Amway, What's Better?

2012-01-06T16:44:00.000-08:00

One of the humorous things that IBOs say on my blog is if Amway isn't such a great deal, then why don't we offer a better solution? I guess it's not enough that there are facts and experiences posted here so that information seekers can find and make informed decisions about joining or not joining Amway, but we must also suggest better options? Well, I will offer some. While I am not advising anyone to listen to my thoughts, nor do I think you should act on what you read what's here without doing your due diligence and your own soul searching, here are my opinions on what may be better than Amway:

1. Be a better steward of the money you already have. Many people have enough income but simply channel too much of it to things they don't need. A daily $5 cup of starbucks for example. Disciplined saving and investing.

2. Get a second job and set aside a portion for saving and investing. You will not only have more discretionary cash, but also more to be able to set aside for your golden years.

3. Start your own small business. The biggest issue with Amway, in my opinion is the endless supply of training that uplines sell. It causes most "serious" IBOs to end up with a net loss. You can find a niche product and sell it on ebay or craigslist, unlike Amway products. Another type of small business might be something like learning to do minor household repairs or installing hardwood flooring. These kinds of services are quite common and can be lucrative.

4. Do nothing. Since most business building IBOs lose money, doing nothing, although comical, actually makes you bette off than losing money because of functions and standing orders.

5. Spend more time with your family. Ironically, many IBOs have this as a goal, but actually spend less time with family because of Amway related activities.

There you have it folks. There are some ideaas of what might be better than spending your time and money participating in the Amway business and the Amway motivational organizations. While these are only ideas, only you can decide what is best for you and your family. In whatever you decide to do, I wish you well.

Are You An IBO Or Just An Amway Salesperson?

2012-01-04T08:45:00.001-08:00

IBO = Independent business owner. I thought it was cool, but looking back at the bottom line, IBOs are just salesmen for Amway with no fringe benefits and no guranteed salary. Or, a comission only salesman. Salesmen earn their income by selling goods and services, and earn a commission. Sadly, many IBOs sell very few items because they have been taught that you make your money by purchasing items from yourself.

On the surface, buying from yourself sounds sensible but you don't truly make a profit by purchasing your own goods, you simply empty your checking account. Any profit you think you have earned has actually come out of your own pockets. In any business, you must have a base of customers in order to have a steady income. If you are purchasing the majority of your goods, you are only making a profit for Amway the corporation, who makes, or in the case of partner stores, distributes the goods. The ones who actually produce the goods are the ones who profit. An IBO is just someone who sells the goods and who distributes them for a commission.

For most "real" business owners, building their business might mean advertising, creating special sales, and increasing the number of customers or by increasing the volume purchased by existing customers. An IBO who is "building the business" is rarely ever trying to attain more customers. In factm some of Amway's regulations make it difficult to attain a mass of customers such as restictions on advertising. Therefore, most IBOs who are "building" are simply seeking to add downline who will hopefully buy their PV and also attain more downline. In this manner, IBOs are increasing volume, and therefore their commissions by adding people to their downline. Ultimately, the upline is making their money by the efforts of their downline and often, from the jobs of their downline because there are usually not enough customers to sustain any significant level of sales.

In this day of social networking and power advertising, Amway apparently remains a dinosaur. While they do advertise some of their product line on TV, the salesmen or IBOs have little ability to market their products on a large scale. Instead it is word of mouth, individual to individual. It is highly ineffective. Do you know why it costs hundreds of thousands of dollars for a 30 second commercial in the superbowl? It's because tens of millions of people are watching. What do you think is more effective on increasing sales, a superbowl commercial or word of mouth advertising. Keep in mind that zany IBO behavior has already damaged the Amway name, thus giving you a disadvantage over other opportunities.

In the end, or the bottom line is that an IBO is just a salesman who receives no fringe benefits, and a relatively small commission. It's a great deal for Amway, but is it a great deal for an IBO?

What's Better Than Amway?

2012-01-02T16:58:00.001-08:00

One of the silly comments I often receive on this site is that Joecool should offer suggestions about what might be better than Amway since I make comments against the Amway opportunity. First of all, I would like to make clear that most of my point of contention is against the tools companies and not Amway itself. Having said that, I believe Amway can and should have done more to prevent IBO abuse by upline and tool selling companies. But I believe Amway has not because the uplines are the ones who recruit new IBOs and teach (defacto) 100 PV quotas to new IBOs, thus keeping Amway sales consistent. Uplines also teach product loyalty.

But what can be better than Amway? Well, since most IBOs earn less than $25 a month, there are many things better than Amway. Working part time for a wage would be more benefioial to most people who get involved in Amway. Buying and selling items for a profit on Ebay is likely to get you more income than selling Amway products. Heck, a lemonade stand on the roadside is likely to get you more income than an Amway business.

What makes the Amway business financially dangerous to many, is not Amway and Amway products, but the involvement in Amway training such as voicemail, standing orders, functions and other materials. This training is promoted as the key to Amway success, but as far as I know, there is ZERO unbiased documented evidence that any of this materials work. In my old LOS, Worldwide Dream Builders, or WWDB, the same leaders I saw 12 years ago are still there and there are no new diamonds that I know of. I would guess that there were "some" new diamonds, but there are also many diamonds who are no longer in business. Kind of makes me wonder why diamonds would quit or resign from Amway if they could "walk away" and continue to collect "residual income". Perhaps this residual income is a myth prepetuated by your LOS. Afterall, Amway doesn't mention anything about residual income and income from your business would come from Amway.

What is really discouraging is that so many eager and motivated people get caught up thinking their financial dreams and goals will be achieved by their involvement with the Amway opportunity. Sadly, most will end up losing money because of the very training that was supposed to bring them success! Even the fiercest of Amway defenders have no documented proof of success. It appears that Amway success is elusive even to the most dedicated of IBOs.

So what's better than the Amway opportunity? Seems just about anything. In fact if you are involved in the training system, donating $100 a month to charity and doing nothing else would make you better off financially than particpating in Amway and the related training. Doing nothing would make you better off. Watching football games would also likely make you better off financially than Amway and the training systems. My recommendation (but you must make your own decision) is to simply find part time work and invest your extra income wisely. It isn't quick or flashy, but you are likely to benefit long term. Of course, your mileage may vary. Good luck on whatever you choose to do

Amway And WWDB In 2012 - Not Much Has Changed?

2012-01-01T21:07:00.000-08:00

There's one Amway apologist named Bridgett Baron who continually likes to use "old" and "outdated" as her source of criticism against Amway critics. She uses this feeble excuse as a means to defend Amway and WWDB. She claims that things have changed and that critic's experiences are old and invalid. She says some of these things despite the fact that she participates on the blog of a WWDB IBO who is saying the same things I heard as an IBO over 12 years ago. Bridgett is either wrong or purposely distorting the truth, apparently. I recently had a WWDB IBO email me with current WWDB documents and I will be posting the details below. It is exactly the same stuff I was told as an IBO more than 12 years ago. Old habits die hard I guess. The only difference is that as an IBO, we did not use the internet. Basically the rest is the same VERBATIM. So much for Bridgett Baron's credibility. Not that she had credibility..... I don't think she's very smart. :-)

Here's the details from the WWDB IBO's documents:

4 STANDARDS
1. Membership with Amway Global
2. Meet the Bigger Team
3. Ditto on the First
4. Check your Team Website Daily and Listen to LIT Updates sent through e-mail

5 NIGHTS A WEEK
Build your business 5 nights a week!

9 CORE STEPS

1. STP 3-5x Each Week
2. Personal Circle (150PV Single/300PV Couples)
3. Customers (50PV Minimum)
4. Membership CD.s- Listen Daily
5. Read a Book from the Book List 15 min. Daily
6. Attend ALL Events / Game Day.s
7. Associate & Counsel regularly
8. Integrity & Accountability
9. Check your Team Website Daily and Listen to LIT Updates sent through e-mail

3 POWERS
1. Power of Agreement . this means be willing to listen & learn, submit your ego & be teachable.
2. Power of Unity . unity with your growing upline & the bigger Dream Team
3. Power of the Spoken Word . speak positively, expecting the best from yourself & your business

3 CARDINAL RULES
1. Never mess with anyone's money (Is bankruptcy messing with someone's money?)
2. Never mess with anyone's ego
3. Never mess with anyone's spouse

3 NEVERS
1. Never embarrass your upline, downline, or crossline
2. Never pass negative downline or crossline
3. Never do anything for the first time without checking upline

Following The Journey Of A WWDB IBO

2011-12-30T10:02:00.000-08:00

http://expeditionoftruths.com/tag/wwdb/

I've been following the journal of an IBO who is in the WWDB LOS. Essentially, I believe the dude is hard working and wanting the best for his family. The problem I see is that he has apparently fallen for the deception that was and continues to be taught by WWDB. Pro Amway folks have criticized Joecool because they say my experience is old and outdated. Yet, here it is on the journal of a current WWDB IBO, pretty much verifies that the same material taught in the late 1990's is still taught today. The only difference I see is that the WWDB leaders are not lying about nobody making a cent of profit from tools. Although they have their own spin on that as well.

Ironically, his website says "Sto Pro Veritate", which means "I stand for the truth". I would guess that Shaun believee what his upline says is the truth but his blog is littered with material that is dicey, but because his upline said so, Shaun believes. I was once there myself, but realized the scam after a number of months. Sometimes it's hard to discern because your sponsor or upline is often a friend or family member. They get you to agree on various issues to build a degree of trust and slow up your level of commitment. Shaun is a perfect example of this.

Basically, Shaun's wife got involved and eventually, Shaun also jumped in. The couple went 1000 PV in March 2010 and even posted copies of their checks. Nothing indicating further progress has been posted since. I would assume any new pin level would have been an article that was newsworthy on such a blog. Lately, there has been more mundane material, and Shaun does not allow comments on his blog anymore, which in itself is interesting. Shaun, in 2009, posted that why wouldn't someone want to work hard for 2-3 years and never have to do it again? 2012 is around the corner, about 3 years since he got started. Food for thought.

Some of the interesting things that can be found on the blog:

The couple plans to purchase a home in cash.
Denied that Greg Duncan (One of their mentors) had bankruptcy issues
Amway/WWDB IBOs have a 2% divorce rate compared to 60% for the rest
Will be Double Eagle Rubies making $117K in 2011
Will be job optional in November 2011
Debt Free (True, but sold their home and cashed in 401K to do so)

Here's a recent quote: "We’ve got some pretty big dreams and today the dream of owning an aircraft was at the forefront. Don’t laugh, get your own dream!"

**Now let me say I wish Shaun and his family well. I hope he does succeed and is able to fulfill his goals and dreams, but not exclusively at his downline's expense. What troubles me is how the leadership at WWDB is apparently teaching him the same junk I saw as an IBO and is filling his heart with false hopes and dreams that are unlikely to ever come to fruition. Even the miniscule number of people who do succeedin Amway, do so at the expense of their trusting downline. Seems that Amway accreditation did nothing to alter or shape the teaching of these LOS's. I will continue to follow his progress and hope that he will eventually see through the facade.

Only Winners Join Amway?

2011-12-29T11:12:00.000-08:00

One of the things that my upline taught, and I believe is still taught today in various groups is that winners join Amway and losers do not. Kind of makes me wonder about the "most" who "do nothing" after joining.
I also heard that you're a winner because you were doing something to better your financial future and those who didn't were losers. or broke minded. Of course the upline who said this had no knowledge about those who were not in Amway. Some of them may already have been financially sound or may have been doing something to better their financial future. I'm not sure why these uplines, who promote "positive", had to resort to calling people losers simpy because they did not agree that Amway was the greatest thing since sliced bread.

In many games or sporting events, there will be someone or a team that wins the game and someone or a team that loses the game. Losing a game doesn't make you a loser and certainly, a team that wins the game would not say the losing team were losers. Can you imagine a pro football team's coach taking the podium after a game and saying his team won because the other team was a bunch or broke minded gutless losers? That would never happen, yet we see that frequently in the Amway world. The owner of Amway, Rich DeVos had once said in a recorded message that just because people do not agree with you (paraphrased) about Amway, does not make them losers and that IBOs should not call people losers.

In all of this, people's jobs are also criticized. That a job stands for "just over broke" or "jackass of the boss" and other blurbs. Many IBO's goals and dreams consist of ditching their job so they can sleep all day and live a life of luxury. Ironically, it is most IBO's jobs that continue to produce income so they can pay their bills and feed their family. It is also an IBO's job that funds their Amway and AMO expenses such as product purchases and functions and voicemail, etc. Without having a job, most people could not even join Amway or pay for any tools. Sadly, most IBOs won't make any money in Amway either, and will have to continue to work at their jobs. I do not believe that someone earning an honest living working a job is a loser. Ironically, the folks calling people losers are often not even netting a profit from their Amway business!

Yes, in this business or the sports world, there will be winners and there will be losers. The question is whether you are the one who is allowed to be the judge of who is and who isn't. I would also suggest that IBOs are completely shutting down potential future business by their behavior. What if I went to a store to purchase something but the item was not available on that particular day, so I don't purchase anything and leave. As I leave, the store owner says I am a loser for not buying something there. Will I go back? Very unlikely. If an IBO truly sees themselves as a store owner, all prospects should be seen as potential business, whether future or present. If your upline tells you that people not interested are losers, you should kick him where the sun doesn't shine.

Only winners join Amway? Think again!

How Strong Is Your Belief In Amway?

2011-12-28T00:43:00.000-08:00

I often hear stories and testimonies about how some people (usually newbies) have this incredible belief in Amway, their sponsors and their LOS, such as WWDB or Network 21. Being that many, possibly most IBOs are sponsored by a friend or family member, means that there is an inherent trust in the sponsor or upline. If that were not true, then we would likely see many more complaints about Amway and/or the uplines and lines of sponsorship.

But an important facet of being an IBO is to have a dream. Don't let "naysayers" steal your dream, is what many IBOs are told. But what is that dream? Is is a dream (a long term attainable goal) or a wish such as winning the powerball lottery? Many prospects and IBOs want to succeed. They are willing to work hard, and are very dedicated, I would say that these folks usually will end up failing, not for lack of effort, but for a flawed MLM/Amway system that cannot possibly reward more than a few. The famed 6-4-2, 6-4-3 or some other variation of the plan will illustrate that only 1 in 100 or so can be "platinum". And that's with nobody quitting. Factor in attrition and "do nothings" and it might be 1 in 200 who can reach platinum. Even if the whole world signed up for Amway, that fact doesn't change.

Do you really believe in Amway and your line of sponsorship such as WWDB or Network 21? If you truly believe in Amway and your metors, I challenge you to do one of these things. If you can't or won't, then I question your level of commitment. I question your belief. I'm not here to steal your dream. I am just challenging you.

Take your 6-4-2 or 9-4-2 or 6-4-3 plan to a loan officer at a bank and show them the plan. (Hey, it will help you be CORE) Ask the loan officer for their opinion of the plan and see if you can get a business loan based on the Amway plan. If not that, try seeking the advice of a real millionaire (Someone who has a net worth of a million bucks) and see if they think the 6-4-2 or other Amway (version) plans can work and whether they think Amway is a good idea. Heck, try asking your church Pastor. My church Pastor said Amway had too many false hopes and promises to be considered a viable business option.

How strong is your belief in Amway? Strong enough to take my challenge? Or will you ignore this and go on fooling yourself?

IBO (Lack of) Success?

2011-12-27T08:54:00.001-08:00

I heard a great comment from a commentator on a related Amway blog. Basically, he said if IBOs were so successful, people would just naturally be attracted. And that's true! Where I live, the local electric company is an attractive place to work with a good salary and benefits package. When there's a handful of openings, you might get as many as 6,000 people applying for these positions. When the federal government hires for the post office, you get thousands of applicants for a handful of jobs as well.

But IBOs have to justify their positions. The common ones are how Amway products are concentrated, or they have magical ingredients in their vitamins. It is my position that if these products were so good and the opportunity actually produced successful IBOs, there would be no need to be deceptive about the products or opportunity. The products could easily me marketed. In fact, cutsomers would be seeking IBOs to find the products and there would be lines of people waiting to see the opportunity.

Instead, IBOs themselves are the primary consumers of Amway products. Many IBOs are deceptive when inviting people to see the Amway plan. Some prospects are outright lied to when recruited for the Amway opprtunity. The curiosity approach is still used by many, because mentioning "Amway" is more likely to get you funny looks than interest. If what I am writing is not true, why do IBOs need to deceive people? Why don't some IBOs open their books and display the financial success they claim to have? Why so secretive? Why aren't there hoards of new diamonds and emeralds each month? Instead, you mainly hear of the Amway growth in foreign countries. Most likely because the Amway name and reputation has not yet been soiled as it has in the US and Canada.

In the US, I see primarily the same old diamonds who were in control of the functions and systems from more than 12 years ago. In fact, factoring in diamonds who quit or dropped out, I believe there are fewer diamonds now than when I was an IBO. Some of these diamonds also had some apparent financial difficulties. The opportunity is far from how it's promoted. Success spakes louder than words, and where North American Amway success is concerned, the silence is deafening

Merry Christmas!

2011-12-23T13:32:00.000-08:00

I would like to wish everyone a Merry Christmas! Joecool will be taking a few days off from blogging to enjoy the Christmas holiday. I remember as an IBO, even at Christmas parties I was wondering about who I could invite to an open meeting or who might be open to seeing the plan. Our upline said we can enjoy the holiday but we should always have our feelers out there for people who might be "looking" for an opportunity.

Looking back I should have simply enjoyed the holiday with no strings attached. Sometimes I wonder what my family and friends thought of my Amway days. I tried not to be over the top when talking about business but I'm sure it was on the back of everyone's minds when the subject of business came up. Turns out I recently found some acquaintances who are Amway IBOs. Although none of them have so far tried to recruit me or sell me Amway products.

Anyway, Merry Christmas to all and be safe!

A Lying Amway IBO?

2011-12-22T14:15:00.000-08:00

An apparent IBO recently engaged me on facebook. I copied his statements and my responses. He goes by the name "Mike". He engaged me for a few exchanges and then he later comes back a month later to try and recruit me. In the exchange I catch him in a lie. Maybe he is learning fake it till you make it? I bet he is in WWDB. LOL

August 17 at 2:54pm Mike:
you wouldn't know a real biz if it hit you in the face.... who r u fooling??? My biz makes 35 to 40K part time....

Joe says: Who are you? Some Amway dude?

August 17 at 2:58pm Mike:
8.2 bil this year WITHOUT you... will be over 9 bill when the #'s all shake out... all WITHOUT you... r u stupid... this is fact!!! oh you must have a job... mike

Joe says: Amway 9 billion, Walmart 401 billion. No comparison.

August 17 at 3:04pm Mike:
lets see ... yes walmart great co... what do they do... oh they distrib.... only prob. with walmart can't have a biz... 15,000 new ibo's per day... over 40 mil. hits on the web everyday... the ONLY debt FREE co on the web that doing over a bill in biz .... income i'm plat. yrly 35-40 k...

Joe says: Debt free? Good for Amway. You are not Amway.

August 17 at 3:27pm Mike:
first thing you can do is call corp... they will give you doc... have been debt free from day one when rich & jay started... i don't know where you went to school but you must have flunked math... your crazy to think over head is 3k per month... no one gets sucked in... they join on their own... how many people start college and never finish... oh lets see ... they quit... mmmmm spent $$$$ on tuition/ books/ room-board....

Joe says: So are you profitable? Mike responds with the broke loser statement but a month later, he’s back………..

September 14 at 4:45pm Mike:
hey Joe... mike here.... do you want me to sponsor you??? had 3 new people at a home meeting on thur. last week... 2 are in and 1 customer... things are going well... mike

Joe says: It’s great that you had people at your meeting. Having people at a meeting doesn’t make you any money does it?

September 15 at 11:51am Mike:
have ALWAY'S been profitable.... i make a profit in EVERY biz i have... have been since i was 22... mike

Joe says: Are you making a net profit? What level are you?

September 15 at 2:24pm Mike:
yeh.. hi Joe... gas, cd's, functions and other expense 300-400.00 monthly... biggest expense are function weekends... run bout 300.00 for ticket,room and food... made over 50k... high margin of profit... must hang in to build the biz right... mike

Joecool commentary: So this IBO admits his expenses run about $300 to $400 a month to “build the business right”. You will notice that a month ago he was a platinum making $35 to $40K. Now, a month later he says he is making $50K. Clearly he is lying, probably faking it but not making it. Why do so many IBOs need to lie?

Amway And Christmas?

2011-12-21T09:38:00.000-08:00

On the internet, I've seen some interesting stuff that some IBOs have done. Such as talking about how the malls are crowded and why bother with all the hassle when you can shop on Amway.com? I guess if you don't mind paying through your teeth you can shop at Amway.com and get your Christmas shopping done. I can imagine the looks on the faces of your family when they receive a bottle of LOC or a box of SA8 when others are receiving Xbox games and/or gift cards for WalGreens.

I'm not sure about Amway's current gift catalog programs, but I recall purchasing those items at Christmas to give to family and friends. Afterall, you gotta build that PV right? Looking back I wonder if my family and friends thought I was cheap or brainwashed with those kinds of gifts? But hey, as an IBO, you do it to support your business. So what if you spent $500 to get 100 or 200 PV? Your "broke" friends and family won't be getting that $12 check in the month following December.

One of the things our upline taught the group was that there's raraely a "day off" when you're in Amway. Sure, you might relax on Christmas day but you need to get off your duff and back on the recruiting trail so you can work on fulfilling your dreams. Afterall, you want to eventually walk away from your evil boss and deadend job and spend time at the beach with your "awesome" upline mentors. Do IBOs ever wonder why their upline mentors don't spend time at the beach and instead are out showing the plan and speaking at functions, even at Christmas? I used to see our upline diamond in his car, wearing a suit frequently. I thought why he didn't just take a month's vacation at Christmas. My sponsor said he was so focused on helping the downline "get free", that he didn't take time off. Looking back, I believe he was busy because he had to. Our former diamond (Harimoto) was a dedicated ocean lover. I wonder why he up and moved to Washington (State) in the Pacific Northwest? Maybe he enjoys a white Christmas?

Anway, for the IBOs out there... It's nearly Christmas. Lighten up. You can take a break from recruiting family and friends into Amway. Just enjoy the company and fellowship with your loved ones. Don't have undermining thoughts of showing them the plan. I can nearly assure you that your gathering with have less tension and that you will enjoy yourself. Your loved ones are likely to enjoy having you around also.

Are You Still CORE?

2011-12-19T00:20:00.000-08:00

Here is a breakdodown of CORE and why it doesn’t work. Here are the CORE steps. Some groups may have variations of CORE, but this is generally what many groups use. CORE is allegedly the proven system of success. Apologists claims that people who are CORE for at least six months straight will succeed. I doubt it. There are many examples, including my former sponsor who can suggest it doesn't work.

1 - Show the Plan (10-15 per month)
2 - Retail the Products (10 customers @10 PV each)
3 – Tapes/cds
4 - Books
5- Functions (attend all)
6 - Accountability
7 - Counsel with Upline (Be teachable!)
8 - Buy 100% of your own products
9 – Communikate

Many upline will tell you that your success is nearly 100% guaranteed if you follow these steps for 2-5 years. Some Amway enthusiasts will tell you that 6 months of this activity will nearly assure you of a platinum level business. Certain steps are within the IBO’s control, such as reading every day and listening to cds, and attending functions. It is also easy enough to be accountable, counsel with upline, buy your own products, and use KATE (voicemail).

Here’s where an IBO’s efforts will break down. Showing the plan and retailing products. And remember, if you cannot do these steps then you are not considered “CORE” and your upline will likely tell you that it is your own fault and that you simply haven’t been CORE, therefore you did not achieve success. There is some truth in this but let me expose the system in a different angle.

Amway has a spotty reputation in the US. I don’t think anyone can dispute this fact. Therefore, for the vast majority of people, being able to show the plan 10-15 times per month is a nearly impossible task. If you are able to do this, you are a really good salesman or a good liar. In this scenario, the IBO is already successful, but not because of CORE, but simply because the IBO has the gift of being able to convince people into seeing the plan. But for many IBOs, they may contact hundreds of people and not be able to get anyone to see the plan. Even IBOs who follow upline advice on how to contact will probably not be able to show 10-15 plans per month. Thus this IBO, who is doing the work, will not be able to succeed. The system will blame the IBO, but the reality is that the IBO has too big of a disadvantage to overcome.

Secondly, with high prices (on average) and with a spotty reputation, most IBOs are unable to retail products. Amway itself has admitted that less than 4% of Amway products are sold to customers (non IBOs). Thus most IBOs are unable to sell products, therefore they are not CORE, therefore upline will blame the IBO for failure..

What if an IBO contacts 1000 people and cannot get 10 people to see the plan? Upline will claim that IBO is not CORE and therefore it is personal failure of the IBO. IMO, the only reason why upline can claim that CORE works is because in order to do the CORE steps consistently, you have to already be at a certain level of success. The vast majority of IBOs cannot and will never be able to reach that level.

That is the myth and the deception that many uplines will use to attract recruits. That each IBO can do the CORE steps. When only a fraction of 1% ever reach the level of platinum or higher, the numbers strongly support what is written here. Apologists are welcome to try and prove me wrong, but they can't.

Amway & Costco

2011-12-16T12:25:00.000-08:00

A Re-Post of this blog's most popular thread. I made some comments in bold:

Funny Story, the other day at work, I get a call from a friend, asking me to deliver a package for him to a mutual friend. A catalog drops out of the bag. It’s an Amway catalog, and apparently a friend of mine still buys dish drops. Anyway, I look at a few popular items from the catalog and compare them to Costco prices. I am shocked. Just by purchasing Gatorade at Costco instead of quixtar, I already get $14 savings and 80 ounces more product!

Prices Competetive?

XS Sports drinks 24 16 oz bottles = $30.00
Gatorade 24 20oz bottles = $15.95 (at Costco)

XS energy drinks 8.4 oz (case of 12) = $23.99
Red Bull 8 oz (case of 24) $31.30 (at Costco)

Double X (31 day supply) $78.05
Multi Vitamins (3 month supply) $24.80 (At Costco)

SA8 6.6 pound (100 loads) $22.75
Kirkland (5 gallon bucket from Costco) $15.99

Meadowbrook bath tissue 48 rolls $29.99
Kirkland bath tissue 36 rolls $11.99 (Costco)
Some Amway zealots actually had the gall to debate the quality of toilet paper

Smart menu Pasta 12 – 16 oz. Bags = $24.99
Golden Grain Pasta 12 16oz. Boxes = $8.99 (Costco)

Smart menu chunk light tuna 24 6 oz cans $25.99
Coral chunk light tuna 12 6 oz. cans $5.99 (Costco)

Progresso soups 8 19 oz cans $19.99
Progresso soups 8 19 oz cans $11.99 (Costco)
This soup at Costco was exactly the same 8 pack as the one in the Amway catalog

Amway And Pyramids?

2011-12-15T08:57:00.000-08:00

Let me start out by saying that Amway is a perfectly legal company. Therefore I am not saying or implying that Amway is illegal. But I believe that the way Amway businesses are run, are like pyramids. In most groups, you will have the lowest level IBOs efforts and tool purchases being responsible for the upline bonuses and tools income. Many many IBOs are fooled into thinking that the ability to surpass your upline or that you don't get paid to recruit downline makes this a good deal. Think about it for a bit. Aren't most Amway gatherings about motivation and recruiting?

Unless you have a very very rare group where actual product sales to non IBOs is sufficient to cover the costs of running your business, functions and all, then it is true that the lower level IBO's jobs are likely the source of income for the uplines. How many groups are like that? None that I have ever seen or know of. In fact, how often do IBOs even sell enough products to cover their expenses for even one month out of the year? The groups that teach "buy from yourself" end up doing the most financial damage to their groups because the downline's expenses are then covered exclusively from the downlines jobs, bank accounts, or drive the downline into debt.

I've seen and discussed group structures in forums many times and I can only conclude that tool sales wipe out what little profits/bonuses some of the downlines might receive. Only when an IBO is able to sponsor enough downline to absorb the losses for them will they finally breal even or make a little profit. I would guess that the 4000 PV level or platinum is where a dedicated CORE IBO would breal even and possibly start to make a real profit. But we also know that most platinum groups have 100 or more IBOs in order to generate 7500 PV. Thus we can also conclude that less than 1% of IBOs make a net profit. The only way IBOs can earn a net profit at a lower level is to avoid purchasing tools and to avoid paying for functions. Those who get involved in a system such as WWDB or N21 almost guarantee that they will have a net loss.

Sure, my job may have a pyramid structure with the CEO making the most money. But the difference is that in a company, even the lowest paid employee still receives a paycheck and has money at the end of the month. The same claim cannot be made by IBOs. For these reasons, I believe Amway to be a legal pyramid. IBOs and information seekers are free to participate, but I challenge them to sit down and really analyze their ability to make a net profit. In most cases, the analysis won't be favorable. If you are in the US in particular, you may have great difficulty in even being able to discuss "Amway" without getting strange looks your way from others. Good luck in whatever you decide

The "Truth" About Amway?

2011-12-13T09:38:00.000-08:00

Comment left on Happy Franchisee blog:

http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/will-amway-make-you-annoying/

mary on December 5th, 2011 10:35 am

My husband and I were involved in the Amway/Quixtar business for 13 years. We worked very hard, attended all the meetings, reached the direct level, and made very little money. Thank God for Dateline. We were convinced that this was a reputable business,the people were great….so we thought. Then we found out the truth. The majority of the money that was told to us was suppose to be on the products and sponsoring /helping others,l was actually made on the books,tapes and seminars. You know they tell you that the speakers take the time from their families to give back to the business. Totally false ! The speakers are paid to perform. That is how they make money. Please believe me when I say that you are not being stupid just convinced by people you trust that you will make money. We went to our sponsors and told them we know how they are making money. We watched Dateline , years ago and still could not believe how we were tricked. It is sad that people will continue to believe this opportunity will produce millionaires. Most of the people in our upline were sued by other people and eventually went on to another scam. I know you will find this hard to believe. I did too. I am now reading all this information and at one time felt the same way. Again you are not stupid… just misinformed. We worked long hours, left our children with sitters, argued with our family , and listened to our upline to not believe the internet. If you make money at this business it will be on the books, tapes, seminars and speaking. We could not comprehend how our upline could have lied to us… they were good people that also got caught up in the lies. It is really difficult to listen to someone speak highly of this business, I know I would defend the products and the system too. I also thought I knew what was going on but I did not know the truth. Find another way to make money you, will be glad you found out now.

Profit Is The Motivation That IBOs Need?

2011-12-12T16:55:00.001-08:00

I believe that Amway IBOs have approximately a 50% attrition rate for the first year alone. If you look at a 5 year window, I believe the attrition rate is something like 95%. So what we're saying is that out of 100 IBOs, only 5 will be around in 5 years, or out of 1000 IBOs, 50 will remain after 5 years. This is extremely significant because if you are a business builder, you will need to replace half of your IBOs every single year. For this reason, I am very doubtful that there are IBOs who "built the business right and built it once", who no longer do Amway related work, but still collect significant residual income. I would guess that significant income could be defined as being enough to live a lifestyle in the top tax bracket (for the US) without having to report to a J-O-B.

Now I understand that some IBOs take it personally when I bring up subjects like this. It is because they have been deceived by some upline diamond or big pin who has sold them on a dream of financial prosperity for life if they will only work hard for 2-5 years. I once thought so too, but realized that there isn't a single diamond that I know of who built the business right and walked away to enjoy the beaches of the world while truckloads of money rolls in. Kinda makes you wonder why you see Crowns still working, and diamonds actually quitting or resigning. I have asked the question many times and it has never been answered. Can anyone name a few people who built their business right and built it once who is currently enjoying these lifelong residuals? Also, if that were a benefit, why doesn't Amway say so?

Instead, you have a constant and endless flow of motivation being sold to IBOs. This motivation comes in the form of cds, books, meetings, functions and other things like voicemail messages. It's sad that IBOs have to continue to pay through the nose for motivation and "teaching" about the Amway business when there are cheaper and more efficient means of communication. For example, why would you need an expensive voicemail when a facebook group account can disseminate messages to your group in seconds at no cost? It is because the uplines want to extract every possible sent from their downline. Because of the internet, I believe people are starting to figure things out and avoid the systems altogether. I hope Joecool's blog contributes to this.

All the motivation IBOs truly need is to see a net profit at the end of the month. If IBOs actually earned an extra $200 a month, or $50 a month, or $600 a month as advertised, there would be no need for motivational speeches. The IBOs would simply look at the growth in their finances and they would keep going. The poor retention rate is easy to explain. IBOs are losing money because of the system expenses and they lose their motivation to continue. If you are an IBO or a prospect, stop and think for a minute. If you are making an extra $200 a month with minimal effort, would you need functions and other materials to motivate you? Or would you have intrinsic motivation from the profit? All the motivation you will ever need is a net profit. Take that to the bank.

Amway And WWDB & Integrity?

2011-12-09T23:46:00.000-08:00

I've been following the blog of a WWDB IBO named "Shaun". He runs the blog called "Expeditions Of Truth" http://expeditionoftruths.com/

He seems to think that not only is he in business with people full of integrity, he also thinks that he is going to retire in November 2011. Is this now December 2011? While I think doing business with people of integrity is a good thing, I also know of many successful people in business who are ruthless. So are Amway and in particular, WWDB people full of integrty or are they just as ruthless as other business people? Does it matter? In my opinion, it doesn't matter except for the fact that WWDB people seem to think that they have integrity filled leaders.

Well, lets look at some of these leaders. Back in the 1990's, the current batch of WWDB leaders swore that nobody made a profit on tools. Nobody knew the truth at the time. We now know that this was a lie. Is this integrity? We know that Greg Duncan was in chapter 7 bankruptcy proceedings. Not paying for your obligations is integrity? We know that Greg Duncan and David Shores had homes foreclosed (Public information). Is that a move filled with integrity? With the tons of money Duncan and Shores make, couldn't they have made an effort to pay off their debts?
If you look at a blog linked to this one "Rocket's Rants", there's a youtube video of "crown" Brad Duncan telling rank and file IBOs that they can make "hundreds of thousands of dollars" a month. First of all, I wonder if Brad Duncan has achieved this himself, let alone any others? Even if someone had achieved it, it would be illegal or unethical to portray that kind of success as achieveable to a a prospect.

Brad Wolgamott used to talk about how WWDB had a low divorce rate. Is it full on integrity for WWDB leaders to seperate or divorce when they talk about integrity and how Amway and WWDB saves marriages? What about Dean Kosage? Another divorcee? Are they full of integrity? What say you Shaun Guthrie of WWDB? What about Howie Danzik whose website doesn't mention that he was once married to Susan? Is it integrity to say you built the business as a single when Howie previously built the business with his former wife?

Amway's owner Rich DeVos ackowledged that the "tools" were likely a pyramid scam and Amway did nothing after sales dropped following some attempts to clean it up. Is that an integrity move? I don't know but
it sure seems as if WWDB and Amway have issues where integrity is concerned.

Edification and Amway?

2011-12-08T09:15:00.001-08:00

Edification. During my time in the Amway business, we saw many IBOs get edified, including myself. Of course it felt great when your upline platinum or diamond would say something that made you stand out in the crowd. For example, I remember an IBO being exalted because he quit his job to attend a major function. His boss wouldn't allow him to use vacation time so he quit to attend the function. I remember Brad Wolgamott telling people it's just a job, attend the function and get another one (job). I remember at a family reunion function, a man was edified by the diamonds because he was diagnosed with terminal cancer but instead of being at home and bitching and moaning, there he was at an Amway function, making a difference in the world they would say. But looking back, I truly believe that the upline's intentions were to uplift those who went thru extraordinary efforts to spend money on tools or functions.

In other words, you are buying your edification. Of course when I say you are buying your edification, you are not necessarily doing so in dollars. It can either be in dollars or in time. For example, you may have been edified for listening to 15 standing orders in one day, or you may be edified for driving the miles to show plans, even if the guest was a no-show. I also recall some IBOs in the group being edified for 1000 PV personal use in a month. I honestly don't know who anyone can possibly do 1000 PV in personal use without the purchase of some big ticket items. I mean how much SA8 or LOC can anyone use in the month? I suppose that you could make Nutrilite vitamins your main source of food or something like that and move a lot of PV, but it's ridiculous to spend that much on personal use.

So to what extent are you willing to go to get ediified? For my upline sponsor, it was what he lived for. My sponsor was/is a physician and he therefore could have a nice lifestyle without Amway but he was more interested in the recognition and edification. He ate it up when he was asked to speak at a function once. He told the group in a nite owl that the dream of being on stage as a diamond was more important to him than the money. Sadly, he never got beyond the platinum level as far as I know and last I heard, he was below 4000 PV. Whatever your dream or reason for building Amway, I honestly believe you need to look at the cost of it. For example, you wouldn't sell your soul to the devil in order to go diamond. I actually wonder how my former sponsor feels these days now that our upline diamond (his hero) has moved to Washington and he cannot spend much time with him anymore?

The cost of edification in Amway is high. Are you willing to foot that bill? I'm glad I woke up and decided that there are much better ways to spend my time, money and efforts. Joecool's blog is one of the better things. :-)

What Goes Around Comes Around?

2011-12-07T13:19:00.000-08:00

One of the things that many prospects and IBOs believe is that they will make an investment of time and money into Amway and that they will eventually get their time and money back in such abundance that they can walk off their jobs, and walk the beaches of the world while living on lifelong residual income, all because of the Amway opportunity. For IBOs and prospects of Amway, I wonder if any of you can actually name even five people who have actually accomplished this? Can you even name one person? Why do Corwn Ambassadors keep working? Keep in mind that there have probably been tens of millions of people who also wanted this and tried Amway and the systems, only to find that reality paints a different picture.

Many people think they will reap what they sow. While that many sound true, I guess the next logical question is what are you sowing? Are you deceptive when prospecting people to see the plan? Do you mention Amway when prospecting? Are you having to justify and hide price comparisons that are not favorable? Are you actually selling goods to customers and actually qualifying for your Amway bonus? Do you have a negative opinion (broke losers) about people who don't join Amway or are not interested in seeing the plan? Do you now think your boss and your job are evil? Do you leave your kids at home to attend endless numbers of functions and meetings? You reap what you sow correct?

I wonder what some WWDB diamonds were sowing? At least the ones who had their homes foreclosed, and one in particular was involved in chapter 7 bankruptcy proceedings? Are they reaping what they sowed? What about the WWDB diamonds who got divorced? What were they sowing? Are IBO sure about wanting to make the claim of reaping and sowing? And yes, Joecool the person also has his own flaws, but the difference is that I am not on stage proclaiming to be flawless and many diamonds would imply when they speak (and profit from) their tens of thousands of downlines. I am not earning a living by deceiving people and profiting from people I am supposed to be helping. Have any of these leaders been held accountable by their downlines or have they simply revised history?

What goes around comes around.

Personal Responsibility?

2011-12-05T09:19:00.000-08:00

One of the disturbing things I have noticed about Amway IBOs and IBO leaders is how they wlll tell downline to trust them. To trust them as they have already blazed a trail. No need to re-invent the wheel. Just ride the coattails of your upline to success. The system is proven. Many IBOs take this to heart and put forth tremendous effort. Then when they fail, upline will shun them and tell them that the failure is their own. That they are personally responsible for failure.

Now I am not talking about IBOs who sign up and do nothing, or never place an order. I do believe that the fact that many IBOs sign up and do nothing brings concerns about how these IBOs were recruited, but I di not recall ever seeing an IBO do nothing and then complain that Amway was a scam or anything like that.

I have found, however, that many people who are critical of Amway and the systems, put forth much effort, did everything they were told, and did not find the success that upline promoted, or in some cases, guaranteed. My former sponsor was still active, last I heard and has been in Amway for over 15 years. I do not believe he has ever gone beyond platinum, and I know that he was never a Q12 platinum. Some Amway apologists might see being a platinum as a bonus, but when you are hard core sold out to the systems, platinum is a break even or make a small profit business. Factor in that time spent by husband and wife and these folks are breaking even or making a fraction of minumum wage. Is this the dream that will allow you to buy mansions with a cash payment?

What is also disturbing is how people will tout the system as responsible for any success, but hide the vast majority that the system doesn't help. Sure, some will succeed in Amway, but for every success, there are hundreds if not thousands who fail. And if you consider diamond as the benchmark of success, the failures could be in the millions. As I said, some succeed, but very very few in relation to the number who try. Going diamond is probably less common in the US than winning the lottery.

Succeed and the systems and upline take credit, but fail or quit and it is your own responsibility. Are these the kinds of leaders or mentors you want advice from? Where's the personal responsibility of the leaders and mentors? There are many stories of IBOs doing exactly what they were advised, only to lose money and/or fail. Where's the responsibility of the leaders? The tools system is win win for the upline leaders with the downlines getting a lose lose situation.

Does Amway Care About Rules Violations?

2011-12-03T23:32:00.000-08:00

I often read about things that Amway does. Some are good. They apparently are concerned about eco friendly products and doing things for charity such as Easter Seals. While this is all good, I wonder sometimes about whether or not Amway cares about their IBOs. IBOs are the lifeline for Amway. Basically, an IBO is a commissioned sales person for Amway with no fringe benefits. IBOs move products for Amway, often at their own expense with Amway paying out bonuses that rewards upline more than the people who actually move the products in most cases.

What makes it worse is that the Amway co-owner, Rich DeVos acknowledged that the "system", consisting of seminars and other tools, were basically an illegal pyramid scheme. Amway tried to reign in the abuse but when certain "kingpins" fought against Amway, sales dropped significantly and the tool abuse went on.

Now, many years later, some Amway groups continue tool abuse. Dateline in 2004 exposed the scam and there were some incidents with some leaders and groups that pruned some of the Amway abusers, but still, it didn't seem as if Amway did anything of substance to curb the abuses. The tools are still promoted in unethical means and even though Amway started an accreditation program, many groups have skirted the spirit of the program and Amway, despite their claims, have apparently turned a "blimd eye" to the issues.

If you examines my former LOS, (WWDB), you can find ample evidence that nothing has changed from my time in the business to now. There is still abuse, lies and deception. Amway claims to address issues, but I have emeiled them numerous issues, many with no response, and in another issue, I posted information about a rules violator on the Amway Answers Blog, which was never published and no response given. Does Amway care? It seems that they do when it favors them and they don't care if not.

Endless Amway Motivation?

2011-12-02T11:37:00.001-08:00

The Amway Financial Freedom Myth?

2011-12-01T13:20:00.001-08:00

Financial Freedom! That was one of the major battle cries when I was recruited for the Amway business. You gain control of time and money by creating residual or passive income. That is true financial freedom. You wake up at noon, no job, and just do whatever you please, whenever you please. I remember the speaker saying that broke/unemployed people also had freedom, but it was different because they were broke and could not afford to go golfing or do other activities that required money on a regular basis.

I am assuming that this is still the case for many IBOs. Of course, upline leaders may toss in a disclaimer that you don't get rich quick as an IBO, but the pitch apparently still contains the financial freedom and residual income theme, based on my experiences with IBOs. IBOs still think they will be rich. Also, 2-5 years sounds like "get rich quick" to me.

But hey, financial freedom would be a great thing, don't get me wrong. Who wouldn't want to be 35 years old with enough cash to never have to work again? I mean I could spend some time imagining how fun that would be. It would also be fun to imagine what you would do with all the cash if you hit the powerball lottery as well. But for the starry eyed IBOs, I simply have a few questions for you to ponder. A few realistic questions that you should be asking yourself. The answers to these questions will tell you a lot.

1. Who in your group or upline truly has achieved financial freedom? Have you seen their financials or simply a display of wealth such as mansions and fancy cars? Mansions and fancy cars could just be a massive pile of debt. Not too long ago, there apparently were diamonds who had their homes foreclosed, and a triple diamond who was in bankruptcy proceedings. Find out if anyone in your group/upline has actually achieved the success that they are using to recruit you. Also, if they are financially free, why do they work at function after function? Traveling and speaking might not be a traditional job, but it is still work, nonetheless.

2. Even if you find someone who is retired and golfing everyday because of Amway residual income, ask yourself what the likelihood is that you will be able to achieve the same results. If diamonds are still working, what chance do you have of success if you are new or experienced in Amway, and have few or no downline. More than likely, your chance of winning the lottery will be greater than your chance of achieving a significant residual income from your Amway business. Also, I don't know of any Amway retirees who built their business once and walked away with any significant residual income from Amway. Do you?

Only Amway IBOs Are "Winners"?

2011-11-29T09:00:00.001-08:00

One of the things that my upline taught, and I believe is still taught today in various groups is that winners join Amway and losers do not. Or that you were a winner because you were doing something to better your financial future and those who didn't were losers. or broke minded. Of course the upline who said this had no knowledge about those who were not in Amway. Some of them may already have been financially sound or may have been doing something to better their financial future. I'm not sure why these uplines, who promote "positive", had to resort to calling people losers simpy because they did not agree that Amway was the greatest thing since sliced bread.

In many games or sporting events, there will be someone or a team that wins the game and someone or a team that loses the game. Losing a game doesn't make you a loser and certainly, a team that wins the game would not say the losing team were losers. Can you imagine a pro football team's coach taking the podium after a game and saying his team won because the other team was a bunch or broke minded gutless losers? That would never happen, yet we see that frequently in the Amway/IBO world. The owner of Amway, Rich DeVos had once said in a recorded message that just because people do not agree with you (paraphrased) about Amway, does not make them losers and that IBOs should not call people losers.

In all of this, people's jobs are also criticized. That a job stand for "just over broke" or "jackass of the boss" and other blurbs. Many IBO's goals and dreams consist of ditching their job so they can sleep all day and live a life of luxury. Ironically, it is most IBO's jobs that continue to produce income so they can pay their bills and feed their family. It is also an IBO's job that funds their Amway and AMO expenses such as product purchases and functions and voicemail, etc. Without having a job, most people could not even join Amway or pay for any tools. Sadly, most IBOs won't make any money in Amway either, and will have to continue to work at their jobs. I do not believe that someone earning an honest living working a job is a loser. Ironically, the folks calling people losers are often not even netting a profit from their Amway business!

Yes, in this business or the sports world, there will be winners and there will be losers. The question is whether you are the one who is allowed to be the judge of who is and who isn't. I would also suggest that IBOs are completely shutting down potential future business by their behavior. What if I went to a store to purchase something but the item was not available on that particular day, so I don't purchase anything and leave. As I leave, the store owner says I am a loser for not buying something there. Will I go back? Very unlikely. If an IBO truly sees themselves as a store owner, all prospects should be seen as potential business, whether future or present. If your upline tells you that people not interested are losers, you should hand him a mirror.

Amway IBOs Should Face The Facts

2011-11-25T09:54:00.000-08:00

One thing that appears to be common amongst IBOs is how IBOs are in denial. They truly believe that their uplines are working in their best interest and that upline wants their success. I don't believe that to be true. If uplines were truly making a fortune from Amway, why would an downline IBO have to pay for practically every bit of help they get from upline leaders? Do upline leaders actually evaluate your business before advising you to buy more tools?

To show the plan, you would need to pay to attend an open meeting, and pay for your guests, even if they do not register as a result of the presentation. You pay for voicemail to communikate with your upline and downlines. You pay for standing orders and you may end up paying twice if you were in attendance at the function when the standing order was recorded. You pay for books and other materials as well.

What's more, many IBOs turn their heads when ugly facts rear their heads. For example, some IBOs deny that a prominent triple diamond was involved in bankruptcy proceedings. They continue to edify and pay for financial advice from someone who could not even manage his own finances. They believe that Amway saves marriages even when the leaders who speak this may be getting divorced. It's like upline simply revises history and downlines buy it without question. Many IBOs do not even see it as a problem that some upline boldy lied and said there were no profits from tools in the past. I find this odd because tool profits are still shrouded in secrecy and downline simply believe that they will eventually get a cut, even without a written compensation plan and agreement.

I believe too many IBOs are simply in denial. They give upline their trust and upline abuses it. IBOs are told they are successful for attending a function even when they might be losing money month after month. They may be told that the Amway business is not about money but about making friends. They may be told that they are nicer people because of their participation in Amway. What too many IBOs do not see is that they are in denial about their business. Most IBOs are losing money, a little at a time, perhaps $100 or $150 a month. For the hardcore, maybe more. But they are taught to ignore these simple facts and deny that there is a problem.

It is my hope that exposure of some of these tactics will be beneficial to information seekers and perhaps new IBOs who have not yet been fully indoctrinated. I encourage people to ask tough questions, demand answers and use due diligence when checking out this oppportunity. The fact is that very few people every make a profit and people should know this before getting involved. Don't deny the obvious.

Happy Thanksgiving From Joecool

2011-11-23T20:38:00.000-08:00

With Thanksgiving upon us, I want to wish everyone a Happy Thankgiving! For those on the roads, I wish you safe travels and a blessed return trip. I hope families can truly reflect on what they are thankful for that that any differences can be reconciled.

I hope everyone has enough to eat and can enjoy a nice meal with friends and family!

Amway - Vertical Alignment?

2011-11-22T13:12:00.000-08:00

When I was an IBO, and even now, there is ample evidence that uplines continue to teach contradictory and poor business practices. I believe the abuse of downline continues because nobody has ever corrected or held upline accountable for their bad advice or even outright lies, such as the previous claim that nobody made a profit from tools. While some of the teaching might make sense on the surface, I believe that much of the upline teaching has an under current designed to profit the upline at the expense of those they are advising.

For example, upline may teach you to get out of debt and live below your means. While that may seem like good advice, it is rendered meaningless if your sacrifices and savings are spent on purchasing tools. I've recently been following the blog of an IBO who got out of debt by selling his home and cashing out his 401K. I believe he was advised by upline to do this. The sad thing is that I believe he is overspending on tools and products with the savings he realized by wiping out (most of) his debts. The upline likely wants you to live below your means and eliminate debt so your disposable cash can be channeled towards tools. I seriousbly doubt that the hard tool pushers really care whether IBOs profit or not, as long as they buy tools. It is why a failure to progress in business often leads an upline to advise the IBO to buy more tools.

A really interesting piece of advice would be to get into vertical alignment. Which is God = #1, Spouse #2, family #3, job #4 and Amway #5. Yet anytime a conflict comes up with a function or a business meeting, the "priorities" somehow turn out where the Amway meeting becomes #1. Sadly, I have seen some dedicated IBOs miss their kids childhood days chasing the Amway dream and they never earn a net profit. If your upline teaches this, I would urge you to consider keeping Amway at #5 and not reschedule family or church gatherings.

Selling products are vital to running a business, yet many uplines do not place emphasis on this aspect. Many IBOs are taught to self consume products. If this happens, then the only way for IBOs to earn an income is to recruit downline. This borders on the parameters of legal. Also, it creates an artificial need for Amway products. How many former IBOs consistently use 100 to 300 PV? How many current IBOs actually use that much without being taught it? How many of you spent over $100 a month on vitamins? How many if you drank energy drinks or $48 for a case of (perfect) water?

Some uplines also emphasize the "side benefits" of the business such as you being a nicer person, which may or may not be true, depending on the perspective of others. They may say that they are your friends for life, at least until you miss a function. They may claim that Amway saves marriages, while not talking about IBOs who may have divorced BECAUSE of the Amway opportunity. Try this, stop being CORE and see how long some of those lifelong friendships last. Once I stopped being CORE, I never heard a peep from any of my lifelong Amway friends.

Many uplines will teach downline IBOs things that benefit the upline and not the IBOs themselves. If you see or hear some of these ideas or others. I urge you to ask tough questions about why the teaching may be contradictory to the princioples of business or of what they are teaching. If you are taught to get out of debt, I do not believe your savings from doing this should be spent on functions. You should seriously reconsider adding debt to build your business, afterall, you were probably told that the Amway business has little to no risk or overhead. Hold your upline to their promises. Do not allow them to manipulate it for their own benefit.

Good luck to IBOs and prospects, but seriously think about teaching that does not add up.

Amway IBOs And Tax Deductions?

2011-11-21T14:08:00.001-08:00

One of the things that I have observed is how IBOs are so misguided by their upline, that they think that their business losses, which result in a tax refund is somewhat like a profit, or that they are getting a free pass with the government footing the bill for their standing orders and functions. In the past, IBOs have been audited and had many business deductions disallowed because the tax department ruled that they were not truly running a business, but participating in a hobby called Amway. Sadly, this only made some IBO's losses even worse as they had their losses magnified because of their participation in Amway and the systems.

I know that most IBOs are deducting the cost of their training materials on their taxes, but the issue at hand is whether the training materials are resulting in increased sales for your business. If you are running a "buy from yourself" business, then there is a strong possibility that your expenses may not be valid deductions come tax time. If you are not selling products to customers for a profit, then there is a chance that your expenses are not valid deductions. It would be sad indeed to be audited at tax time a few years after you have been an Amway business owner, only to find out that your expenses are not valid and that you may owe tens of thousands of dollars in back taxes.

Another apparently common mistake of IBOs is to think that their business expenses are basically free from the government because they may end up with a tax return. Your expenses are deductible from your taxable income. Thus if you had $10,000 in business expenses, your return would depend on your tax bracket. If you are in the 15% tax bracket, then $10,000 in expenses would get you about a $1,500 tax return, depending on other deductions you may have. But IBOs get duped into thinking they made a score and now get back $1,500 when they may not have had a refund in the past. Obviously in this case, the IBO would have been better off saving the $10,000 and never getting involved in Amway. Some IBOs proudly proclaim their refunds as basically a windfall, almost like it is a profit. That is truly scary.

Folks, there is no free ride. If you are spending money on legitimate business expenses with an intent to make a profit, then there is nothing wrong with that. But if you are traveling to conventions hoping to learn the secret of sponsoring more downline, you could be walking on thin ice should the IRS ever decide to audit your business. There have been many cases in the past where not only did IBOs lose their shirts due to the business support materials they purchaed, but they got double whammied later when the IRS disallowed tax deductions, leaving them in financial ruin. I truly hope you aren't on that path.

Check out this link:
http://www.apollowebworks.com/amway/irs.html

"TRAVEL AND ENTERTAINMENT have always been areas of abuse. Sections 162, 262, and 274 are always applicable and sometimes Section 183. Since most of the travel is primarily to attend social gatherings for entertainment and motivational purposes, any real business purpose is suspect. Unless the taxpayer can show that attending seminars, meetings, etc., meets the requirement of Section 162, the travel should be disallowed. Amway people have been unable to show that attending these meetinqs increased their sales. The agendas of these meetings appear to be primarily for entertainment, socializing, and listening to motivational speeches. The meetings have nothing to do with promoting the sale of Amway products to the general public. In fact, Amway distributors are specifically warned aqainst mentioning either Amway or selling when recruitinq potential downline people. Since it is not likely that the taxpayer will increase his sales by attending these functions, then there is not a reasonable business purpose for the trips"

IBOs, The Real Losers?

2011-11-19T20:55:00.001-08:00

One of the things I recall as an IBO was thinking how sorry I felt for people who were not IBOs because we were all going to be rich and everyone else was a loser. Our upline used to tell us that we were winners - and if you weren't a winner, then obviously, you are a loser. Many times, the term "broke" was attached to the term loser. That was my mindset back then, but having been out of the system more than ten years, I can look back and laugh, realizing that the losers were the ones buying stuff they don't need, stalking people at malls and bookstores, and wasting their time and money on tapes (cds), books and functions.

What goes unnoticed in many cases, is how much time and money really goes down the drain for IBOs who work the system. Your life revolves around the business if you are dedicated and hard core. You are always looking for prospects and people to show the plan to, and you have to rearrange your schedules, or outright skip social or family gatherings because of the neverending number of meetings and functions, many of which teach you nothing about running a profitable business. When I first left the Amway business, I was sort of angry at the time and effort that was wasted, along with the cahs I threw down the crapper.

But after I did finally cut ties with the business and the people associated with it, I got back into a routine of sorts. I focused on my job and after some years of gaining experience and working my way up the corporate ladder, I received some promotions and I am scheduled to be retired before the age of 60 with a decent retirement income and will likely have my home paid off by then. So while I did have to work a dreaded job to be able to retire, pretty much all IBOs are also working a job or business PLUS having to expend their time and money to run their Amway business which has little to no chance of providing a long term stable and significant income. And if I may add, it is the systems such as WWDB or N21 that usually end up costing the IBOs the most money because of things like the functions.

So I will ask the question. Who's the real loser? The person diligently working and saving for their future or the person chasing a dream that is unlikely to materialize? Factoring in the expenditure of time also makes the systems even more costly than it appears on the surface.

"Anyone" Can Succeed In Amway?

2011-11-17T16:19:00.000-08:00

One of the "false hope" things my upline used to tell our group was that everyone was going to succeed. That although things are tough, one day we will all be at diamond club together looking back at the struggles and laughing. Well, nothing could be further from the truth. One of the things that Amway promoters like to state is that "anyone" can succeed", but in the same line of reasoning, I could also say that "anyone" can win the lottery. The same thing can apply to not "everyone" can succeed in Amway and not "everyone" can win the lottery. Amway is not a game of chance like the lottery, but this still applies.

Using the term "anyone can succeed" is simply a statement that gives people hope. It appears that Amway promoters love to use the psychology of giving people hope as a means of recruiting and retaining IBOs. Hope is what keeps people motivated. The problem with the Amway opportunity, is that it is false hope. It is very easy to see that in most groups, the majority of downline IBOs will lose money. The majority of active IBOs, if they receive a bonus, will get only about $10 a month from Amway. If they use voicemail, or subscribe to standing order, they are already at a net loss for the month. Never mind the open meetings, major functions and other expenses associated with the Amway business.

I believe it is hope that makes gambling popular. One pull on a slot machine handle can change your life. Many IBOs believe that one good run of business can change thir lives. Unfortunately, the Amway business has not appeared to produced much fruit in North America. It seems that any new success is simply replacing older pins who no longer qualify. In my opinion, it is a telltale sign that Amway has stopped reporting North American sales. I'm sure if sales were up, they would stand on their rooftops and trumpet out such success. While Amway reported an increase in sales, there is insufficient data to determine the cause and effect of the sales increase. I have heard some chatter that it could be a result of increased prices. I wish the corporation would just be more transparent about these issues.

To summarize, "anyone" can succeed. But that simply means that you never know who the next platinum or diamond may be. You don't know where they will come from. And it is unlikely to be a new recruit. If you are using a system such as N21, WWDB, or BWW, then I can say with certainty, that "everyone" cannot succeed.

What If Everyone Joined Amway?

2011-11-16T13:28:00.000-08:00

The point of this blog post is to illustrate that the Amway opportunity is simply not sustainable and that the market is basically saturated in North America. I know Amway recently released some propaganda on the average IBO income being up, but once again, a clear explanation of how they derived the numbers was not given. For all we know, they have hve simply excluded more IBOs by declaring them as "inactive". Anytime I heard the word Amway, it frequently draws funny looks from people. I know that Amway proponents will claim that Amway is not saturated, but in real life, you aren't going to have people lining up to join. It is why there are countless stories of people being lied to or tricked into attending recruitment meetings.

So in reviewing the common 6-4-2 plan, there are 79 IBOs and one becomes a platinum. And that is with the generous assumption that all of these IBOs are moving 100 PV consistently each month. Factor in some folks who do little or nothing and some who order infrequently and anyone can reasonably conclude that a platinum business will commonly have well over 100 downline IBOs. Now with that being said, what if everyone in the entire world suddenly had an epiphany and decided to join Amway?

Well, the structure of most platinum businesses won't change. You will still likely have more than 100 downline in each platinum group. The platinum will make some money and most downline, especially those on the system of cds and functions will lose money. Thus less than 1% of the IBO population can realistically be a platinum at any given time. Whether is now or whether the entire planet signs up for Amway, it will always be less than 1% of the IBO population at the platinum level. That is how the system is set up. The only exceptions to this rule would be for IBOs to sell enough PV to make up for a lack of downline. But there is ample testimony and evidence to indicate that many IBOs simply self consume their PV because they cannot or do not like selling. Some AMo groups teach IBOs to almost exclusively consume their own volume. My former LOS, WWDB did not emphasize selling, but focused on recruiting. And why not? The reality is you cannot go emerald or diamond without many downlines.

So even if every person on earth joined Amway, there would still be less than 1% of IBOs at the platinum level and very likely that less than 1% of IBOs would be at a net profit. Some proponents argue that many IBOs sign up and do nothing or sign up and don't order products. So what? They are still IBOs and even if you didn't count them in averages, what I have posted above explains why the success rate (platinum) still cannot amount to much more than 1% even at the best case scenario.

Still thinking about registering for Amway? Do your research and you may want to think about this article.

Looking Beyond The Amway Facade?

2011-11-15T09:43:00.000-08:00

One of the things that Diamonds and some other leaders do to attract new IBOs is to put on a dog and pony show. They want prospects to think that you can consume Amway products and get others to follow your lead and in a few years, you will be set for life financially, speaking on stages and securing the future for generations to come. They might use props such as pictures of mansion. slideshows of cars, yets, yachts. It looks impressive but based on what I know now, who knows whether the diamonds actually own this stuff or if they are simply showing you a slideshow of "lifestyles of the rich and famous". The reality is very likely that many diamonds are actually living in debt or bonus check to bonus check. It is a fact that more than half of NBA basketball pros end up broke, and they earn more than diamonds. Why would a diamond be different than the average Joe, especially when they appear to live beyond their means.

In the few cases where diamond income was exposed, we can see that they were not making the kind of money they would have you believe. Triple diamond Greg Duncan was making about half a million a year from Amway. A nice income for sure, but not what people would think, and not enough to save Mr. Duncan from bankruptcy. David Shores lost a home to foreclosure. Another diamond, unnamed but documented in the book "Amway Motivational Organizations, Behind the Smoke and Mirrors", talks about a diamond who had a gross income of over 3 million dollars, and a net of about $320,000. This diamond was in debt, had back taxes owed to the government, and was working hard to portray the diamond lifestyle.

Some of these leaders also use religion or Christianity as a means to justify their involvement in the business. For those who know, the Bible is clear that the love of money can lead to destruction. When you have functions such as Dream Night, what does that say? I would also like to note that in cases where these diamond's financials were exposed, there were no significant contributions to charity. I wonder if these charlatans talk a good game but do not contribute time or money to worthy causes? Where are the ten thousand dollar checks they talk about donating to charity? These leaders often refer to themselves as mentors, but any help they provide to downline results in some kind of compensation for them. This is not a mentor, but more like a paid consultant who is not getting effective results.

Behind the nice suits and the glitz of the functions, I believe that IBOs and prospects would see a world they truly would not want to be a part of. A world where deceit is practically needed to succeed. Where you take advantage of people who trust in you. Where you pretend to be wealthy and free, but in reality a slave to the mighty dollar. Where you traded a 9-5 job for a job that works the graveyard shift. If you look objectively behind the facade, you might see what I see.

Upline Wolves In Sheep's Clothing?

2011-11-14T09:55:00.000-08:00

The really insidious part about some of the LOS leaders, such as the ones I had in WWDB, is that they apparently are cutthroat ruthless businessmen with nice suits, and disguised as your mentors and friends. They get you to trust them, and they will tell you that they have your best interest at heart, or that they would never purposely lead you astray. On the surface, you may think this is true, but look at their actions and you can easily discern that some of these uplines are absolutely ruthless businessmen who would take every cent from you if they could. I was in WWDB and I have good reasons to believe that they are still doing this, based on a WWDB IBO blog. On this blog, I see all the same teachings today, that I heard as an IBO and some of the same claims such as buying homes in cash. It's scary.

They may even claim moral superiority such as using religion as a basis for building the business. I heard some leaders say "Amway is a God pleasing business". Really? God likes lying and exploiting others? I would beg to differ. They might tell you lies such as Amway and/or WWDB IBOs have a lower divorce level than the world. They may tell you a bunch of unsubstantiated details. I urge IBOs to verify and confirm claims like these.

As an IBO, the diamonds may tell you to never miss a function, ever. The only good reason for missing a function was for your own funeral. I recall some crossline IBOs rearranging pre-planned anniverssary parties, weddings, and other special family events in the name of being core and attending all functions. Some IBOs actually did quit their jobs to attend functions and they very well may have done so because some uplines taught this. IBOs were also encouraged and told to go into debt to attend a function. This was okay because it was an "investment" into your business.

Our group was also strongly encouraged to buy extra cds every week. To be core, you needed to listen to a cd each day and you cannot listen to the same one each day right? Couples were told to buy their own seperate standing orders. Brad Duncen even had a true north tape (cd) that said sponsors were to eat the standing orders for downlines who quit because it was too much trouble to call upline who calls upline who calls upline to cancel a standing order. Oddly enough, they didn't mind upline calling upline calling upline to add a standing order.

In the end, I was lucky enough to have been progressing up the pin ranks so my losses were not that devastating. I ended up losing in my early months of the business but mostly broke even when I was at 4000 PV. Sadly though, my crossline did not fare so well. I know of one couple who declared bankruptcy. I don't know how much their WWDB involvement contributed to bankruptcy, but I am certain it was a major factor and I know of two couples who had homes foreclosed, and I believe that their allegiance to WWDB was a factor in those foreclosures. But I guess hey, two WWDB diamonds had homes foreclosed so maybe they were duplicating?

Do not be fooled. The diamonds may have a nice smile and a nice suit, but they are cutthroat wolves in sheep's clothing who will take your last dime if you allow them to.

Dear Amway:

2011-11-10T09:58:00.000-08:00

This is an open letter basically explaining Joecool's position and why in my opinion, criticism of Amway doesn't stop.

Dear Amway,

Why does criticism of Amway continue Ad Nauseum? Because you have not taken any apparent visible action(s) against higher level IBOs who make their living by ripping off unsuspecting prospects and faithful downline by feeding them lines about how easy it is to build an Amway business and how they can ditch their jobs and live on easy street. I saw it and there are countless testimonies and experiences posted on the internet.

When I was an IBO in WWDB, we were fed outright lies by upline. Nobody made any money from tools being the biggest. Downline were taught how long they could string out their mortgages or electric bills so they can attend functions and buy more tools. Yes, IBOs have culpability as well, but the culture of these groups is one of trust and loyalty to the diamonds. Amway's owner, Mr. DeVos acknowledged this in his 1983 speech "directly speaking". But despite the speech, no apparent visible action was taken, thus status quo continued. Even the accreditation system which seemed nice on the surface appears to be a farce. I believe that possibly millions of people over the years have been adversely affected financially because of some of these Amway IBO leaders.

Many of the same leaders who lied to benefit themselves are still at it. A fellow blogger named "Rocket" recently reported a possible violation where crown ambassador and IBOAI member, Brad Duncan is caught on tape claiming that IBOs can make "hundreds of thousands of dollars" a month in Amway. Your response was to make non sensical remarks and then eventually no response when pressed for one. I also reported a WWDB IBO who was making disparaging and false statements about some competitor's products while making misleading positive statements about Amway products. Your response was no response and my comment wasn't even published on your "Amway Answers" blog. Ironically, one of the topics on that blog was about how Amway doesn't turn a blind eye to problems. Yeah, you can say it but your actions show something else.

Maybe someone can explain why actions in other countries indicate that the folks who sell Amway tools are scammers. For some reason, the regulatory agencies in the US have not taken notice of the tools business. The Dateline segment in 2004 exposed the tools and systems. It became a big debate on the internet with critics and proponents. While Amway can claim innocence because the unethical actions were taken by IBOs, or "independent" business owners, I still believe that Amway has a responsibility to reign is some of the sales force that represents them.

Food for thought: Joe Paterno was an assistant and head coach, an icon at Penn State University for more than 60 years. He was fired yesterday because he had knowledge of child abuse occuring at the program under his watch. While he was not personally guilty of this, and did many good things for Penn State and the community, still his inactions may have caused harm to befall innocent children. Ultimately, he had the ability and power to stop the wrongdoing but did not. It is a sad ending for a man who many consider a legend. I wish him well.

Amway can reign in the tool abuse and take control of some of the bad leaders, but apparently has not and will not. The fight goes on.....

A Part Time Job vs The Amway Opportunity

2011-11-09T10:18:00.000-08:00

Many people pitch Amway as an easy, and somewhat shortcut to riches. It's all over the internet, it's what I saw as an IBO, and I have good reason to believe that many still pitch Amway in this manner. I believe that people want to believe that you can create wealth part time in 2-5 years. IBOs and prospects may be told "it's not get rich quick", but 2-5 years to quit your job and live off residual income sure sounds like the pitch of a get rich quick scam. It is what has contributed to Amway's current reputation.

A typical IBO (not counting those who do nothing), according to the "plan" will consume and possibly sell some goods on their way to 100 PV, which will earn them about a $10 bonus from Amway. There might be some profit from sales to customers, but there are also expenses involved in running a business. If an IBO is on the system, then their expenses might run from $100 or so to $500 a month, depending on level of commitment (brainwashing). In the end, a falwed system and generally non competitive pricing and products leads to most IBOs eventually quitting. The vast majority of IBOs on the system will wind up with a net loss, even with a tremendous amount of effort. Seems that effort has no relationship with success in Amway. Based on my experience, deception and lies seem to be a better way to succeed in Amway than by hard work.

But what if someone basically worked a part time job instead of Amway? If someone simply got a 20 hour a week job at $10 an hour (not that difficult), someone could earn about $800 a month gross income, or about
$9600 a year. In ten years, even with no raises in salary, that person would have earned close to $100,000 more income. That money, if invested into a diverse portfolio can be the nestegg that allow someone to retire early, or to retire more comfortably than most. And that salary is guaranteed if you work the hours.

In Amway, there are no assurances of anything, even if you work 40 hours a week. The only assurance if that you will help your upline earn more than yourself by moving products. If you are on the system, you are basically paying your upline (via tool puchases) for the priviledge of boosting your upline's volume. It is why uplines teach you to "never quit" and to be "core". These virtures help assure your upline of profits, but does little for the rank and file IBOs. I write this blog post just to stimulate thought amongst IBOs and prospects. There are better and easier options than the Amway opportunity. If you are reading this, you are looking at one potential alternative. It's your job to decide.

The Purpose Of Night Owls And Small Group Meetings?

2011-11-08T10:51:00.000-08:00

Based on my personal experience, and based on having read numerous acconts from other former IBOs, it's pretty clear that the higher uplines, absolve themselves of issues and problems by having others do their dirty work. While some leaders are bold enough to make dumb statements on stage, many uplines will have their "eagles" or platinums do their dirty work, which is to pass bad and often self serving advice to their downline. Advice that will help them (upline) to profit directly from the losses suffered by downline.

For example, a diamond may stand on stage and talk about the merits of getting out of debt. Now getting out of debt is a good thing and nobody should get caught up in credit card debt and other piles of debt. But so many times, I sat in meetings where the group was told they needed to be at the next funtion - no matter what. Do whatever it takes to get there, even if it meant selling personal belongings. Ironically, the solution to getting to the next major function did not involve selling Amway products. So many IBOs made sacrifices of time and money to get to the next function, but their business did not experience any growth in volume or downline. I saw many crossline IBOs attend meeting after meeting and function after function without any downline. They faithfully spent their time and money chasing a dream based on lies by the upline leaders. Our group was told that upline made zero profit on tools. While some groups now admit that profit is made on tools, there is still a lack of transparency about the tools profits and as far as I know, there are no formal written agreements with regards to the tool profits.

I also recall our platinums having platinum and above meetings while we were at major functions and it seemed that the platinums always had something to teach the group that was contrary to what we had just heard on stage and the platinum would tell us that he had the freshest information from the meeting. It's like the platinum was just a henchman for the diamonds and carried out their dirty deeds. Another example is how the diamonds taught vertical alignment where God is first, then your spouse, your kids, your job and in 5th place was your Amway business. But anytime an event such as a friend's wedding or an anniversary dinner or your kid's soccer game conflicted with an Amway event, the group was told "attend all meetings". All means all, is what our group was told. That is directly contrary to the concept of vertical alignment. In fact, the Amway IBOs became less useful to their communities and churches as they are constantly attending meetings and functions and unable to serve in other capacities. I also wondered whether the Amway business and tools consumption took away their abililty to tithe and give to the local charities. Our upline would tell us to go diamond and then send in $10,000checks as if that made it okay not to serve others and help the needy.

It is my informed opinion that this still goes on today, despite the claims of Amway appologists that my experience is twelve years old. There is ample evidence suggesting that very little has changed from 20 years ago. In fact, many of the leaders from my IBO days are still teaching unethical things to this day. Many Upline passes bad advice downline, but they do it in sneaky ways such as having their downline leaders pass the information on. This is also how Amway itself can skirt some of their issues, as IBOs are not Amway employees, they are "independent". But most people in North America now know the truth and hopefully this article shines some light on that truth.

"Why" Are You Building Amway?

2011-11-07T10:16:00.000-08:00

One of the reasons why I joined Amway at one time in my life was because a close friend of mine had joined, and had gone platinum and convinced me of how easy it was and that I could easily do what he had done. Additionally, I was sold by delusions of residual income flowing for the rest of my life. I honestly thought that the one day would come when there would be no job and life's toughest decision would be where to have lunch.

I got serious and started building the business and eventually reached various levels, eventually topping off at the 4000 PV level. At that point, my upline had assured me that my net income would be $1000 a month with the right parameters. I had those parameters but my net income was zero because upline expected IBOs to reinvest all of their earnings into tools (standing orders, functions, etc). At that point, I began to question why we would do all the work and get no financial reward. I was told that the money would be there if I just kept working the business.

Apparently, many IBOs get in for various reasons and I'm sure that teh displays of mansions, jets and cars made some people salivate. Some really enjoyed the thought of telling off their boss and quitting their jobs because Amway was so lucrative. Many people believe it because they want to believe it. Many people would love financial freedom, especially when you have a 2-5 year shortcut to achieve it.

I recall some nite meetings where upline asked the group "why" we are building Amway. It was to spend more time with family, or to possibly gain financial freedom. A popular one was to retire the wife so she can be the one to care for the kids and eventually the dad wouold soon follow. In a nutshell, many people joined Amway as a means to have more time and more money. Money from your residual income and time because you won't need a job. The truly sad thing is that for the vast majority of people who try, even those who work hard at it, end up with less time and money as a result of Amway and the systems.

Rather than why you should build an Amway business, people would think about better and more realistic ways of securing their future. That hard fact is that only a fraction of 1% of people will ever make any decent money from Amway, and even those who might make some coin from Amway, much of that profit is rechanneled back into tools. IBOs would seriously be better off doing nothing than doing Amway.

The Problems With Amway?

2011-11-04T10:34:00.000-07:00

The reason(s) why I feel that Amway is a poor business opportunity is for various reasons. While upline leaders and recruiters give recruits the pie in the sky view, the reality for most is not so pretty.

The products in general are priced uncompetitively. That isn't to say that there is no value in any Amway products, but overall, with the internet and big box retailers, you can almost guarantee that you can find products of equal value at a better price somewhere. It is why Amwayers end up talking about product concentration or "quality", which is subjective. I find it ironic that the quality and concentration doesn't seem to be enough to keep former IBOs as faithful customers.

The compensation plan is unfair to those who do the work. An IBO who moves 100 PV, roughly $300 in sales, usually gets the smallest cut of the bonus. $300 in sales generates about $90 to $100 in bonus money. Approxinately 90% of that bonus goes to layers and layers of upline (middlemen) and the IBO who did all the work might get $10 or so. Some of the upline who enjoy the bonus may have done nothing and may not even know the IBO who did the work. Most IBOs would be better off just selling some other products without being in an MLM and they could then keep all of the business and not have a minimum (100 PV) in order to qualify for a bonus.

The system consisting of voicemail, website fees, cds, books and functions do not work. Sure, some people may learn some techniques and gain some self improvement benefits. But a business exists to earn a profit and the system fails miserably in that regard. The system may churn out a diamond here and there, but these few successes amount to a tiny fraction of 1% of IBOs. Even IBOs who put in tremendous effort often find out that their hard work doesn't pay off. Instead, the system slowly drains IBO resources which is why most system IBOs end up with a net loss at the end of the month. IBOs who stay on the system for several years can be out tens of thousands of dollars, one cd and one function at a time, with no profit to speak of. This is despite uplines claiming that the system is so vital to your success. Recruits need to carefully analyze their progress or they can wake up a few months later and be out thousands of dollars.

I also wonder whether or not Amway actually takes any action against IBO rule breakers. I have, and seen others report obvious violations with no results. In some cases, the Amway folks would not even acknowledge or publish my comments when I have exposed rule violations. The accreditation process was a joke and there's plenty of evidence that nothing has changed, save for some cosmetic changes. The real issue was identified by Amway owner Rich DeVos in 1983 (Directly speaking)but it looks like doing the right thing hurt Amway sales so the violators were left alone and the result has been millions of people being adversely affected by the non action.

It is why I have had the resolve to keep blogging all of these years. to get the word out. That if you join Amway and the tools system, you are nearly assured of a net loss. Do the math and it is an easy conclusion to make. Good luck to all.

Where's The Money?

2011-11-03T10:03:00.000-07:00

When I was a young IBO, I saw the plan and thought it was realistic to go direct and to find six (6) downlines who could do the same thing. I didn't know the realistic chances of doing this, but the presentation made sense so I went with it. I basically built my group on excitement and it seemed like the system could work. Sadly, as I climbed the ranks, my bottom line did not change. I did not "net" $200 at the 1000 PV level, and I did not "net" $1000 a month at 4000 PV as my upline taught. I had the parameters they taught, but the reality was my leaders taught everyone to pump what little profits we earned into buying more tools.

My leaders also taught people to get out of debt, which was good advice on the surface, but at the same time, any disposable income left over was to be channeled into tools, and for those who did not escape debt, they were told it was okay to go deeper in debt, but only if it was to "invest" in their businesses by purchasing more tools. Thus it certainly appears that upline's advice was purely self serving and had nothing to do with an IBO's individual success.

I was in WWDB and they (upline) said that WWDB was breaking the most new diamonds and that WWDB diamonds were the most profitable. So here it is a dozen years later, where are all these new diamonds? Aside from from foreign diamonds, there are (I believe) less than 4 new diamonds from WWDB in the US from the time I left the business. Now I may be wrong, but even it was a few more than 4 new diamonds, that is a miserable success rate given the amount of cash spent by downline on tools and the claims made my upline about the tools.

We have also seen some WWDB diamonds end up in home foreclosures. Where is the integrity and financial acumen these leaders boasted about? Where is the success and long term financial security available to everyone that was touted? I believe more diamonds and emeralds fell out of qualification than new pins emerged. The business was promoted as one that would stand the test of time. Sadly, I believe WWDB and the Amway opportunity as promoted by WWDB has been a miserable failure.
There is little success to speak of, just he same old tired diamonds showing off a lifestyle that some of them apparently can no longer afford. Where is the success?

It is years later and we are still waiting.......

Climbing The Amway Pyramid?

2011-10-31T10:06:00.001-07:00

So many eager young people join Amway with the hopes that they will retire early, live a life of luxury and basically enjoy life with no worries. Most of the people who join Amway are very likely to be motivated, hard working and wanting more out of life. Their intentions are great but it leads to the question of why do so few people actually get anywhere in Amway and why are there so few new diamonds, at least in the US and Canada?

I think part of the problem is that the folks who recruit new prospects into Amway often imply that everyone has a chance to be a diamond and they also imply that it's not that difficult. I heard comments once that going platinum was so easy that someone's dog could do it. It's obviously not true when less than one percent of IBOs ever reach the platinum level and even those who do often are unable to maintain that level of volume.

Now let's break it down to numbers. A platinum group is often typically 100 to 150 IBOs. Of course not all of them are busy moving products or recruiting downline. A diamond group is six platinum groups plus some side volume, thus a diamond group is likely to have 750 to 1000 IBOs. Being a platinum can be compared to being the manager of a company and a diamond is like being a CEO of a big organization. In a job, you can work your way up and eventually become a manager or CEO. Some IBOs think they can never achieve those goals at work, but they mistakenly think they can surpass their sponsors in Amway so it's a better deal. But even if you earn more than your sponsor, does that mean you will eventually reach platinum or diamond? I think a better gauge of success would be those who go diamond. Diamond is often portrayed as the pinnacle of success and is the target shown in "the plan".

However, as I stated, going diamond would also be like achieving the level of CEO in a company. There is only so much room at the top. That is true. While there can be many diamonds, you would still need to have about 100 to 150 downline to achieve platinum and you would still need six platinum downline groups equating about 750 to 1000 downline IBOs to be diamond, plus your personal group. Thus a diamond is like a CEO who creates his own company. Factor in that half your group is likely to quit each year, thus you must replace hundreds of IBOs every year to maintain the minimum qualification of platinum or diamond. Add the in name "Amway" that makes some people cringe and maintaining a group is a daunting task. Imagine being a CEO of a company that loses half of their employees every year. That's what a diamond "lifestyle" includes.

It is my informed opinion that a diamond lifestyle is one of hectic schedules, constantly working to help your groups maintain volume and bringing in new IBOs, plus sponsoring and maintaining your own personal group of 2500 PV volume. If you cannot maintain 2500 PV personal volume, I believe you would not qualify for some of the bonuses paid by Amway. Also, because the rest of the workers normally works 8-5 or so, a diamond is out working the night shift and odd hours trying to keep the group intact. Also, factor in the travel to functions for speaking engagements and a constant churning of meetings and you have little time to actually work your business and spend time with family. Sadly, many people join to gain more time and money and they often end up with less time and less money because of their involvement with the constant meetings and functions.

So can someone succeed in Amway? Certainly it has been done, but I believe that many diamonds are possibly busier working odd hours than someone with a job with regular hours. The diamond lifestyle may be shown as fabulous, but I believe the reality is not as nice a picture. See my previous post about visiting with a diamond.

Why It's Hard To Quit Amway?

2011-10-28T11:19:00.000-07:00

One of the things that keeps some IBOs going is the "alternative reality". What I mean by that is for some IBOs, once you have been in Amway for a while, it can be hard to quit. You may have been recruited with dreams of lifelong residual income and walking on all of the exotic beaches of the world. Retiring young and spending that time with your wife and family. To quit means an IBO would have to face the reality that these dreams will not come true, at least not with the Amway busines. The fact is that the Amway opportunity probably would not have delivered those dreams anyway. Even a diamond more than likely cannot afford those dreams. In fact I would estimate that most diamonds, if they flaunt some excessive lifestyle, are near broke or in heavy debt as a diamond income cannot sustain a jetset lifestyle, save for a founders crown ambassador or something similar. I believe the prominent WWDB triple diamond bankruptcy shed a lot of light into the finances of an upper level pin and it wasn't nearly as impressive as I would have thought.

But what is the reality? It's working hard only to drift between 100 and 500 PV. It's finally sponsoring a new IBO only to have a downline quit. It's talking to people about Amway and getting laughed at or getting rejected. It's your upline or sponsor pushing you to do more. Possibly your upline is one who questions your manhood if you aren't working hard enough. It's your upline or sponsor reminding you that a winner doesn't miss functions, especially the major ones. It's staying up late for team meetings or nite owls when you need a good nite's rest to do your job the next day. It's driving the miles to show a plan, only to have your prospect not show up. It's having to be deceptive about what you are doing. It's skipping functions with family and friends so you can be core to the business.

As IBOs, do you see any of this? I saw much of this during my involvement. While I have not been an IBO in some years now, I still see many testimonies and comments by more current and even some active IBOs to indicate that a lot of this still goes on. While Amway defenders will deny it, I see no reason why any of this would have changed over the years since Amway has made no significant changes to stop abusive uplines. If Amway did make any changes, they are not immediately apparent and the continuous string of comments and testimonies do not confirm that any clean up has been done. I recently sent some information to Amway about some unethical behavior by an IBO. Not only did they not publish my concern on their now defunct "Answers" blog, they also did not respond and apparently did nothing to the unethical IBO. So much for not turning a blind eye.

For active IBOs or prospects, these are the realities that may be attached with the Amway opportunity. Much of it is because of motivational groups such as WWDB or BWW, but if you are seeing these traits in your group, ask the tough questions. If you happen to decide that the Amway opportunity is not for you, take heart! There are other ways to achieve your financial goals and dreams and there are moe efficent ways out there. Sometimes, quitting something that isn't working is a wise business decisions and sometimes you can lose more by not quitting. Good luck in whatever you decide.

Amway - IBOs Are Legit Because They Sell Stuff?

2011-10-26T10:55:00.000-07:00

I've been debating with some IBOs about retail sales to customers. While many IBOs claim to have real customers and to teach retail, the reality seems to paint a different picture. Even an Amway corporate blogger at one time wrote a piece stating that sales to non IBOs were 3.4% of Amway (Quixtar) sales a few years back. Apologists will say that many IBOs are actually customers who only buy stuff and do not build the business. While there might be some IBO customers, I highly doubt that the majority of IBOs are paying renewal fees just to buy soap and overpriced vitamins.

I know some groups have their schtick down. They will say they "teach" their IBOs to have sales to about 20 customers which gives them a monthly income and allows them to qualify for a PV bonus. It certainly sounds great, but I would bet that IBOs with 20 actual regular customers are about as common as a founder's diamond. In many groups, the IBOs are taught to "buy from themselves" primarily. Thus the income generated for the diamonds simply comes out of the pockets of their downline IBOs. Sadly, "serious" IBOs often wind up paying their upline (via tool sales) to learn that this sham is a good idea.

I can prove right here that IBOs are not focused on selling products. The focus is on selling the opportunity. How can I prove it? Very simple. Every single time I have seen or heard about the Amway business, there was talk about the economy, inflation, etc. The speaker talks about his easy lifestyle, and how he made it bbig by capitalizing on an opportunity, the Amway oportunity. Then the 6-4-2 plan or some similar variation is shown to the audience. It is shown as "simple", "reasonable" and "doable". The plan is about making money, typically six figures at the diamond level and a decent income at the platinum level. There is little mention about having to sell products, and little or no mention about the actual products that Amway carries. The hype in the meetings is to sell the opportunity. Sure, after the plan is over, a prospect might be given some samples and such, but the emphasis is still on the business opportunity. The products are usually a side note in the presentation.

While IBOs might talk a good game about selling products, the reality is that many active IBOs have very few actual customers. It is my informed opinion that even the few real customers are often sympathetic friends and family of the IBO, rather then people who are genuinely seeking Amway good and services. I wonder if anyone in Amway has ever "shown the plan" by starting out with product presentations and samples? When you really think about it, unless the business has real customers, all you are doing is exploiting those you sponsor for their personal consumption, which might benefit your business a bit, but won't benefit your downline unless they can dupe others into joining them.

So take a real look at your business. Are you actually selling goods to outside customers are are you engaged in a personal consumption game? My undedrstanding is that an IBO does not qualify for a bonus without sales to actual customers. Are you legit or not?

Amway - Excuses, Excuses

2011-10-25T10:32:00.000-07:00

I've been a blogger now for a number of years. I've debated with Amway apologists and they ultimately resort to excuses and/or personal attacks when they run out of defenses. Food for thought, when you have to make excuses about why your opportunity isn't a scam or a pyramid scheme, that should already make you stop and think for a minute. The easy excuse is to say that "my group isn't like that". Yet I see testimonies and statements that indicate to me that things have not changed, even in all the years since I left the Amway business myself.

Even the product's prices need to be justified. That there is concentration or other factors that really make Amway stuff a better value. Strange how that better value doesn't seem to translate further once an IBO realizes that there is no residual income at the end of the rainbow. Many IBOs don't seem to mind paying for Amway stuff when they believe that they will one day walk the beaches of the world while more money than they can count will keep rolling in. When the dream fades, so does the desire to purchase these awesome products. If not, with tens of millions of former IBOs, Amway sales should be through the roof after all these years. But it hasn't. Although Amway recently reported an increase in north american sales, that wasn't the case in the last 10 years. Amway apologists even have excuses about why that is the case.

Amway also reported recently, that they have updated their average IBO income. While it is still miserable, it has gone up, although a clear explanation as to how and why they calculated the "average income" was not apparently given. So the debate continues. Critics analyzing and predicting how and why, and Amway apologists making excuses and justifying their position. Why not just be transparent and end the debate once and for all? I think most people know the answer. The bottom line for most is whether or not they make a net profit. For the vast majority of IBOs, especially the ones on the system, the answer is a net loss. It is predictable and easy to conclude. The 6-4-2 or any other version of the compensation plan clearly shows that very few people can make any decent money. If a platinum IBO typically has 100 or more IBOs, that is your answer there. It should be noted that a platinum might not even be very profitable if they are sold out on buying system tools.

So IBOs and Amway defenders, are you making money (net profit)? Or are you just making excuses?

IBO Prospects - Deceived At The Outset?

2011-10-24T10:31:00.000-07:00

I was thinking about how propsects are invited to see the plan. In many cases, there will have been a bit of deception or half truths told in order for an IBO to get a prospect in front of the plan. But then I thought about the plan and how much deception was used in the plan itself by the speaker.

IN many cases, IBOs and new prospects are deceived right from the beginning. The speaker might make some small talk, and get the prospect to agree on certain issues, such as income tax and insurance eating away at your paycheck, etc. When a prospect hears this, it will make sense and they will agree and trust the speaker somewhat. Afterall, the speaker has been built up to be a financial whiz and all. And much of what the speaker says makes sense, at least on the surface.

Then the deception begins.............

The speaker might talk about IBOs saving 30% on products righ from the start, which is false. Here's some information debunking that age old myth:
http://www.amquix.info/Save30_myth.html Not only do many products cost more, factor in shipping and handling fees and it's not evebn close in many cases.

Then the speaker might talk about 98% of people being dead or broke by age 65, which is not true. The speaker might talk about 90% or more of small businesses failing in the first year. These little factoids (which are untrue) are apparently used to make other opportunities seem flawed in comparison with the Amway opportunity. Readers and prospects really need to do some research and due diligence and they will easily see through the mistruths.

The speaker might then talk about how the Amway opportunity is cheap to get started, and has little or no overhead. But the problem is that many dedicated IBOs will get hosed as their upline will begin to teach them that they need to invest in their business in the form of voicemail, book of the month, standing order and attending all meetings. These expenses nearly guarantee that an IBO will end up with a net loss of income. What's more, upline may teach that this is success! In many cases, the speakers don't care abot the prospects. All they care about is getting people signed up and on the system. Sure they may loan cds to newbies, but once an IBO wants more, they are likely told that "serious" business owners buy their own tools.

So a question for IBOs and prospects. Is it a good opportunity when you have been lied to or deceived right from the outset?

Amway - Diamond Freedom Is A Myth?

2011-10-19T09:53:00.001-07:00

When I was an IBO, I often saw my upline diamond driving around town dressed in a business suit. I used to think why does he keep working if he can walk away and collect residual income? My sponsor told me that the diamond only works because he cares about his downline and wants to help them. So there are two possible scenarios, the diamond is working to help his downline out of a genuine concern, or possoibly he is working because he has to! The only difference now is that the diamond works the nite and/or graveyard shift, because many IBOs are building the business after they complete their day jobs. **We should also note that my former upline diamond dropped down to the emerald level around 2005 and has since re-established his diamond level.

Now Amway has stated that the average diamond earns about $146,900 a year. That is a decent income, but after taxes and paying for basic expenses such as medical and dental insurance, the average diamond probably lives a very middle class lifestyle. Keep in mind that a large portion of a diamond's income comes in the form of an annual bonus, thus a diamond's monthly income may be quite small. Yes, diamonds may have other sources of income such as speaking engagements and income from standing orders and functions. But this income depends on the diamond's continued appearances and efforts.

So is it likely that a diamond is "free"? I would have to conclude that a diamond is not free, and may actually have to spend more time maintaining his group than if the diamond simply had a 9-5 job. For one thing, a diamond needs to maintain a personal group to keep qualifying for bonuses. With a poor retention rate in Amway, I am fairly sure that a diamond spends much time recruiting personally sponsored IBOs to maintain this group. Additionally, a diamond must help his six or more groups of downline platinums to maintain their businesses or face the possibility of falling out of qualification. My former diamond dropped down to the emerald level but has since re-qualified at diamond. A diamond must also dedicate time to reward up and coming movers and shakers, to keep them motivated. I got to spend time with my upline diamond when I was considered a promising up and coming pin.

In order to continue to receive tools income, a diamond must also travel to numerous functions and speaking engagements. Although the tools income allegedly doubles a diamond's income, it also adds a lot of expenses, especially if the diamond and his family travel first class to show off the diamond lifestyle.

After breaking down projected income and considering projected expenses, I can only conclude that a diamond probably lives a middle to upper middle class lifestyle, and probably works as much as a man with a 9-5 job, except that a diamond works nites and weekends. A good portrait of this is shown in Ruth Carter's book (Amway Motivational Organizations: Behind The Smoke and Mirrors). In the book, the diamond had a net income of over $300,000, but lived in debt, could barely pay his mortgage, and was always on the run from one function to the next.

I believe that diamonds may actually be busier at the diamond level than an average Joe who has a 9-5 J-O-B. The difference is that the diamond works the night shift. Is this the freedom you are seeking?

Amway IBOs Are Nearly Guaranteed To Fail?

2011-10-17T16:29:00.000-07:00

What many Amway and MLM IBOs do not realize is that the Amway/MLM compensation plan nearly guarantees failure for most IBOs. There, there will always be some people who make money in Amway. Some might even make a nice income, but they are few and far between. But for Amway. all you need to do is look at the 6-4-2 plan and you can easily see how few people can actually succeed.

We know that in the 6-4-2 plan there are 79 IBOs doing 100 PV. We know that many IBOs do little or do nothing, thus a group where 7500 PV is moved, then one can conclude that you would need more than 100 IBOs. I believe many platinum groups consist of 150 to 200 IBOs. Many of these folks quit and need to be replaced, so the platinum is often very busy showing the plan and recruiting downline. In the end, out of these 150 to 200 IBOs, there is one who is making a decent income (the platinum). Well, that platinum represents less than 1% of IBOs. Even if the entire population of the world signed up for Amway, that rate of success would not change because it simply takes that many downline to make a platinum.

Based on the evidence supplied here, you can make a claim that joining Amway or an MLM nearly guarantees your failure. The only exception would be an IBO who signs up and only sells products to actual non IBO customers. These folks can make a profit, but are highly unlikely to make any significant income. However, most IBOs end up joining Amway with an AMO attached (AMO = Amway Motivational Organization) such as WWDB or Network 21. These folks are for profit companies that sell training and motivational materials. But if the system only allows for a fraction of 1% to be "successful" at any given time, no amount of training or motivation will make it better.

The upline leaders who sell these tools often deceive their groups that anyone and possible everyone in the room can succeed. It's simply not true. The system is set up for a limited number of successes. You cannot become a platinum or higher simply by choosing to do so or by wanting it bad enough. Hard work may help but still doesn't guarantee you anything. The system is multi level and it can only yield a small number of "success", just as there can only be so many officers in the Army. Working harder can help someone advance, but the number of leaders (platinums) will only increase relative to the numbers of lower level IBOs. Do the math and the sad picture becomes more and more clear.

Controlling Time And Money?

2011-10-16T22:55:00.001-07:00

Time and money. When you control both, you are free. At least that's how the business was pitched to me as a prospect. It made sense at the time. If you have enough money, then you don;t have to have a job and go to work every day. Having enugh money allowed you to control your time. It sounded like a great deal to sleep late every day and not have any financial difficulties. It sounds so simple. Join Amway, 2-5 years and there you are.

But for most people, joining Amway (and the systems)ironically robs you of what you desire most. Time and money. For those wanting to build a business, you may be told you need to invest in your business, and while that may be true, I do not believe there is any bonafide evidence that can support the relationship between the investment of time and money into the Amway business and earning a significant income. Many people have invested years and thousands of dollars into the business only to end up with nothing. My sponsor was a physician who spent many days away from his practice (lost income) and his oldest child (son) probably didn't see him very much since he was out showing the plan every nite.

Diamonds give the appearance of being filthy rich with nothing to do but golf abd go shopping but we are now seeing evidence that diamonds may not be all that. Home foreclosures, bankruptcy, former diamonds speaking out, diamonds moving their groups out of Amway, diamonds possibly selling their homes and downsizing. I believe that there are possibly many - a - diamond who is in financial difficulty and they have not escaped the tough economy as they may have implied in a meeting.

Also, if diamonds were so free and filthy rich as they like to portray, why don't any of the bigger pins ever walk away from the business and live on the beaches of the world that they like to talk about? Why are they always attending and running functions? I am guessing tha most of them are working these functions - because they have to. I suspect that some of these diamonds are in debt trying to portray a lifestyle that they truly cannot afford.

If you are joining Amway to gain more time and money, I urge you to make sure you are keeping track to see if you are gaining time and money, but if you look carefully, you will probably find that what you desire more of, is what you actually have less of. That is, time and money.

Amway Critics Are Important!

2011-10-14T17:17:00.001-07:00

I often wondered what the Amway opportunity would be without any critics. Many Amway supporters think that critics exist only to tear down others or to bash the Amway opportunity. I see it completely opposite. I believe that Amway critics are important for IBOs. Without any opposing voice, IBOs would mistakenly believe that they are in Amway utopia except that eventually, they would notice that they are losing their shirts.

When I was an IBO, our upline (and many others apparently) claimed that nobody made any profits from the system (voicemail, books, tapes/cds. functions). Without any opposing voices, this might still be happening. IBOs had no way of knowing. Upline just told bold lies and got away with it. To this day, none of these "awesome" leaders have even been held accountable for the lies. The diamonds simply ignored it. Sure, they now speak about tools, but there is little transparency about how you actually qualify for a share and how much you get when you qualify.

Critics have also pointed out that many IBOs are taught to ignore important facts such as their profits versus losses. Some IBOs are taught "fake it till you make it" or they are taught to "buy from yourself", both of which are ridiculous from a business standpoint. But without an opposing view, IBOs would never question upline. In fact, many IBOs are taught to avoid all negative. Don't watch the news or read the newspaper. In other words, upline wants you to be apathetic and only read and intake their Amway propaganda. This is why some people accuse Amway leaders of running a cult.

Think about this. Your body has pain sensors for a reason. What if you could turn off your pain sensors because you see it as a "negative". Do you think this would be good? Minor cuts or infections could become major health problems or other minor injuries untreated can become life threatening. You could touch a stove and burn your hands but you wouldn't know it without some pain. For this reason, I believe that having opposing views are also important for IBOs to consider. Valid criticism is good for IBOs who are serious about building their businesses. To avoid negative just for the sake of avoiding negative is silly. Critics are important.

Selling False Hopes And Dreams?

2011-10-12T11:45:00.000-07:00

The really insidious part of Amway, in my opinion is that certain leaders of AMOs such as WWDB use the hopes and dreams of people to get them to join Amway and to sell them motivational tools that are supposed to help people to achieve these hopes and dreams. Many of these folks are nice, motivated and hard working people who have dreams and goals. What they don't often see right away is that those dreams and hopes are not going to be fulfilled by building and Amway business and using WWDB as a support system.

Since my time in the business, WWDB has fewer diamonds now than there were when I was an IBO. While there may be some new diamonds, I don't really know of any in the US. I believe there are some new diamonds in foreign countries where the Amway name and tool scam hasn't been fully exposed as it has in the US and Canada. This is a glaring issue. If diamond is the pinnacle of success, then where are they? The same old tired diamonds are on stage and apparently teaching the same BS today, that they taught many years ago, despite claims that things have changed.

They still teach about buying everything in cash, and that there is residual income and walking the beaches. I find it very odd that with the benefit of walking away from Amway while cash rolls in, why hasn't anyone exercised their right to do so. Is it that all of these tired old diamonds love Amway and they downline so much that they cannot bear to quit? Or is it more likely that the residual income for life is a complete myth and that these diamonds work because they have to?

I know of at least two (2) WWDB diamonds who had their homes foreclosed. There is also a triple diamond who was dabbling in chapter 7 bankruptcy, and ironically, this diamond is still on stage teaching audiences about his financial acumen. There are some diamonds who llived and loved Hawaii and the ocean, but saw it fit to move to the mainland US. Many WWDB diamonds put their homes for sale in a bad real estate market. Sure, they may just want to liquidate, but maybe they can't afford these mansions and toys anymore? Maybe.

WWDB still has a function called "Dream Night" where the diamonds parade around showing off sports cars, fancy homes, jet skis and other toys, implying that they all own these things and paid for in cash. They want the audience to dream of obtaining the same and that Amway is the only way to attain it. Sadly, for most, joining Amway and WWDB is far more likely to push you farther away from your hopes and dreams. Amway's own numbers tell the story. $115 a month average IBO income, and one half of one percent (.5%) achieve the gold/platinum level where you might earn about $1000 a month gross income.

Buyer beware.

The University Of Amway?

2011-10-11T15:35:00.000-07:00

Many IBOs justify their involvement in the system of cds, tapes, books and seminars by comparing it to college. They claim they need this education and that it is much cheaper when compared to a college or university. Of course this is the upline propaganda that IBOs are fed, much like the concept that a job is a bad idea. It is a well documented fact that college grads earn more than their non college counterparts.

In college, it is true that not everyone graduates, but approximately half of those who start college end up graduating. Those who do not graduate still benefit from their education on a year to year or course by course basis. When you are job seeking, a college degree will give you more options than those who don't educate. This claim cannot be made by Amway IBOs. The education an IBO receives by seminars and cds do not even equate to success in Amway, much less in other venues in life. Only a small fraction of IBOs ever reach platinum, which supposedly is the break even point. So as an IBO, you have less than one half of a one percent chance to break even as compared to approximately a 50% chance of graduating college.

Also, once you graduate and receive your degree/diploma, it is complete. In Amway, there are many many many examples of people who reached levels as high as diamond or above who could not maintain the level. There are also many examlpes of diamonds who quit Amway. If there were such a thing as "residual" income, why would anyone quit when they could sit back and watch the cash roll in. I think the answer is quite obvious.

There is also no evidence (as far as I know) that your Amway related education of cds and seminars actually work. The tiny fraction of 1% of successful IBOs is not a good case for arguing the success of the system. Colleges on the other hand, have accreditation standards, which is nothing like the ineffective Amway accreditation of groups such as BWW, WWDB or Network 21.

The fact that IBOs even dare to compare a college education to their teaching in Amway is a joke. Try telling a prospective employer about your Amway education and see what that gets you. LOL

Trust Your Upline?

2011-10-10T14:21:00.000-07:00

Over the years, I have encountered many IBOs and they often have a common theme. They trust their upline and in some cases, consider them mentors. Some IBOs go so far as to trust their new mentors over trusted friends and family. (This is also the insidious part of this whole scheme) Now in a business venture, it might be good to have a mentor or someone to guide you, but in the Amway opportunity, most of the upline mentors make money off those who they mentor. That is a major conflict of interest but IBOs simply fail to see it.

When an IBO sees the plan in a big meeting, the speaker will often be built up as a financial genious, and possibly as an expert on how to succeed in Amway. An IBO may hear something about the trail was already blazed by upline and you just need to follow the trail. Don't re-invent the wheel, just duplicate what upline has done. But as I have said many times before, duplication sounds easy and looks good on paper, but in real life, the vast majority of IBOs run into problems that they simply cannot overcome, such as the bad reputation that the Amway name has in the US, or trying to justify the ridiculous prices of some Amway products.

What is troubling however, is that IBOs are taught to trust upline and do as they say (defacto requirement), but they are also taught that failure is their own shortcoming, even when they do exactly what upline told them. It is also troubling that many uplines will tell their faithful followers that they need to purchase more and more tools (voicemail, cds, seminar tickets). In some cases, an upline may advise their downline to sacrifice basic family needs to buy these tools. Some IBOs were advised to skip meals to buy a cd, or skip paying the mortgage to be able to attend the next big function. I personally witnessed IBOs in my crossline who followed upline advice to their own demise (home foreclosure and bankruptcy). Sure, IBOs are culpable too, but the upline had the gall to give that kind of advice.

I might also add that as a newer IBO or prospect, you may have heard that "everyone starts at zero", or that it's a level playing field. It is not. As a new IBO, you will likely be in the 100 PV bracket. Since Amway pays out about 31% in bonuses, your upline(s) will split up about 28% in bonuses off your efforts while you get a 3%bonus. That doesn't sound very level to me. You also do not make any money from the tools. That is reserved exclusively for higher level pins.

So each IBO should look at things objectively and see if your upline is helping you or simply helping himself by giving you advice that ends up in profit for himself with little or nothing for you. You might be surprised to know the answer.

What Is The Truth About Amway?

2011-10-08T11:13:00.001-07:00

One of the things that irks me about some Amway leaders is their blatant revisionist history. They never take responsibility for anything except for the miniscule amounts of success that seeps through their system. Real problems and issues are ignored, or leaders pretend they never happened, or they simply rewrite history to fit their goals and agendas. And to make matters worse, these same leaders teach their downline to accept personal responsibility for their failures, even when downline faithfully purchase and apply teaching from tools such as voicemail, standing orders and functions.

One good example was the complete lie that nobody made profits from tools. Then when caught red handed, leaders now admit that they make profits from tools but nobody seems to know exactly how much, or how you actually qualify to receive compensation. And there was no backlash for having told such blatant lies.

Leaders in my former LOS, WWDB used to teach how so few IBO couples ever gets divorced. I heard that Amway couples had a 2% divorce rate as compared to the rest of the world where over 50% of couples get divorced. Yet, WWDB uses their own revisionst history. One good example is Howie Danzik, who WWDB says built his business as a single and later married Theresa Tsuruda. I guess I must have imagined the emerald function I attended where Howie and his wife at the time, Susan, said they built the business together. There are other examples of this, but what amazes me is how the downlines seem to ignore these facts.

Another recent example was how an IBO insisted that a prominent triple diamond in WWBD did not have homes foreclosed or was not involved in bankruptcy proceedings, even when there are numerous public documents providing ample evidence that it is true. It's mind boggling. If Tiger Woods were a diamond and denied that he had any affairs, I bet his downline would believe him as well. Scary.

I just have to wonder when IBOs, who dedicate themselves to various systems, will ever hold these leaders accountable for their actions. If you buy a television and it didn't work, you would ask for a refund. Well, if those standing orders and functions contain vital information and you apply them and they don't work, you should ask for a refund as well. People should also ask upline the tough questions. If someone gives you bad advice, they should be held accountable. If someone tells you buying a home with a mortgage is stupid because of the interest you will pay, then you find out they have "interest only loans", that makes them a hypocrite and their advice should be questioned.

Don't allow these well compensated leaders to simply rewrite history to ignore their mistakes and trangressions.

Amway Is Not Get Rich Quick!

2011-10-06T12:24:00.000-07:00

One of the things my upline used to say was that Amway is not "get rich quick". I suppose they say this because most people would more likely think scam if they promoted it that way. But when you stop and think about it, 2-5 years, build it right and you have willable, residual income for life while walking the beaches of the world? That's not get rich quick? Or is it more of a disclaimer so that the opportunity doesn't sound "too good to be true"? One thing is for sure, even if uplines tell you that it's not get rich quick, it's obvious that IBOs think they will eventually get rich, even if it's not "quick". Sadly, they are wrong.

What most IBOs don't figure out quickly enough, is that they are unlikely to even make a profit, let alone getting rich in Amway. How many of these people exist? Where are all of these retired Amway IBOs who built a business in 2-5 years and then walked away from their business and will be collecting a significant residual income for many years to come afterwards? I don't know of a single person who has done this and none of the Amway defenders and zealots I have encountered over the years have been unable to supply this information either. It's like some kind of myth or urban legend that people have actually retired from Amway on residual income. We also know that due to attrition, it is virtually impossible to maintain a profitable Amway business. People quit the business daily, thus even what looks like a solid busness can be gone in a very short amount of time. I compare retired Amway diamonds with residual income walking the beaches is like legend of bigfoot/sasquatch. Everyone has heard about them but nobody has ever produced tangible evidence that they exist.

I can acknowledge that Amway is a business opportunity and will definitely take some work to be able to achieve something. But thinking realistically, what business could you actually be able to walk away in 5 years and not work again? More than likely that business doesn't exist, whether it's Amway or not. Say you opened a conventional business. There wouldn't be many scenarios where you could walk away after a number of years. The business would still require work and maintenance. But for some reason, people are mislead to believe that you can do this in Amway where there is a high attrition rate and where your business can only expand by person to person.

Sadly, many of the people who are attracted to the Amway opportunity are often young people looking to get more out of life. They are often ambitious but may lack a means to gain wealth, thus the appeal of the opportunity is there. Unfortunately, these nice young people are more likely to end up channeling their hard earned dollars into standing orders and functions which will almost guarantee that they end up with a net loss. The bottom line is that not only is Amway not get rich quick. The more likely scenario is that your involvement with Amway will very likely be not getting rich at all. A net loss is the most likely result. I challenge anyone to try and prove me wrong on this point.

Signs Of A Brainwashed Amway Follower?

2011-10-05T11:45:00.000-07:00

Sometimes it happens to the nicest of people and it oftens happens slowly and subtly. These are the signs that you are becoming indocrinated and you are likely annoying your friends and loved ones at this point. I hope this helps:

*You're driven to recruit everyone you know. You may even resort to deception or outright lies to get people to meetings. Before you know it, your family and friends avoid you like the plague. You end up spending time at malls and other public placse scouting for recruits.

*You're encouraged to develop an unreasonable, irrational zeal for the products. Even so far as to justify the quality of toilet paper or to call the products prestigious. You may even argue the quality of energy drinks or about phytonutrients, something you may not even know about.

*A whole bunch of demands, promises, subtle threats of failure if you don't try hard enough are made in the promotional material and motivational seminars. i.e. If you quit, you are a loser destined to die broke and unhappy. Or you let someone steal your dream. These ridiculous claims are how your upline keeps you hooked.

*Because the system is touted as the way you're going to make yourself fantastically rich, you're under pressure to drop any conflicting or competing interests such as your bowling league or golf club. Nothing else in life has importance except for the quest of financial freedom. All activities in your life must enhance your Amway business and have an affect on your financial future. No ther activities matter to you unless it affects your financial future.

*Your upline soon becomes your most trusted friend. Your thoughts and feelings are shaped in part by the cds, meetings and functions.

Do you recognize these behaviors? Hopefully you aren't displaying these behaviors.

Amway - Upline Integrity?

2011-10-03T11:35:00.000-07:00

I often hear about how peope refer to upline integrity. I often wonder how a downline can determine that his or her upline has integrity. I decided to google the word on dictionary.com to further this discussion:

In·teg·ri·ty /ɪnˈtɛgrɪti/ Show Spelled[in-teg-ri-tee] Show IPA noun

1. adherence to moral and ethical principles; soundness of moral character; honesty.
2. the state of being whole, entire, or undiminished: to preserve the integrity of the empire.
3. a sound, unimpaired, or perfect condition: the integrity of a ship's hull.

Based on these definitions, I would have to say that many uplines do not have integrity. Now you might ask what I base my opinion on and that is a good question. I have several examples of a lack of integrity by my former uplines. The odd thing is I keep hearing that there is good change going on at Amway and WWDB but yet the same old same old keep happening.

Look at all of the lies told by upline in the past. Nobody makes profits from tools. If you were in WWDB in the mid 1990s, you know this is true, that uplines lied. They also lied about buying everything in cash, as evidenced by somewhat recent home foreclosures and bankruptcy filings by diamonds. One diamond who spoke about the non existent divorce rate in Amway and WWDB is now out of WWDB and is either divorced or getting divorced. Look at the fiasco some leader created by making false claims about Amway's "perfect water". I guess $50 cases of water is a tough sell, but lying about it shows a lack of integrity, in my opinion.

Even now, there's a link on my blog to a blog called "Rocket's Rants" where he has shown evidence to the Amway corporation of an Amway IBOAI and WWDB leader making the claim that IBOs can make hundreds of thousands of dollars a month. Stay tuned, I wish to see what kind of integrity is shown by the corporation (or lack of).

So when I hear IBOs talk about integrity, either they are mislead or they have a blurred picture of what integrity is.

Condemning Testimony About Amway & WWDB

2011-09-30T15:21:00.000-07:00

This was posted by a former IBO in Hawaii:

"I personally had experience with Quixtar. It is a "tool based business'. Did I buy their books and tapes (yes...back then it was cassette tapes)? Yeah, i did.

I realized there was a problem when things started getting "shady". My gf was a downline of mine. My upline said that buying tools will help build my business. I agree that some of the information they provided could be legit and work for some people. The problem was that I was purchasing tools on a weekly basis, but my gf was not. My upline refused to "teach" me and give me any support unless my gf was buying the tools too!

Are you serious? My gf, who lived in the same house as me, had to buy tapes and books when I was already buying tapes and books?

I got out and soon afterwards, never really heard much about Quixtar or Amway again."

Joecool asked who the upline diamond was and the response:

I believe Matt was the Upline Diamond. The name sounds familiar. He's short? I think he used to be the GM of T&C or something like that.

Are you considering the business?

I wont deny that some people can make money....its just the lies I was told before and while I was in it that made me quit. I hardly even hear about them anymore....or any other MLM for that matter.

WalMart Beats Amway?

2011-09-29T16:06:00.000-07:00

I recently saw an Amway supporter talk about how Walmart is so bad and Amway is good. But let's just look at the details. Walmart and Amway are both billion dollar companies, although Walmart makes Amway look like a midget. Walmart has over 400 billion in sales while Amway last reported about 10 billion.

Walmart eliminates the middleman and sells all kinds of products to consumers at rock bottom prices. Amway adds middlemen to the process, thus making distribution inefficient and the result is $50 cases of water or $80 for a month's supply of double x vitamins. While Amway apologists will make quality and concentration claims, there's no unbiased evidence that organic vitamins have any special advantage over the much cheaper vitamins you can get at Walmart. Even if products may be concentrated, it doesn't necessarily mean they are better or cheaper than Walmart. Walmart will match any advertised price for an exact same product. Thus if Walgreen's has an ad for something cheaper than Walmart, take the ad to Walmart and you get that price. Walmart's slogan is live better, save money. Amway's slogan is "now you know". LOL

Walmart's employees all get paid and have a net paycheck at the end of the month. Amway salesforce of comissioned sales people often make nothing or lose money if the IBO is caught up in the training program (cds and functions) Walmart adds to the local economy by providing jobs and good prices whereas Amway might be a drain on local economies as the profits go to Michigan and/or the tools companies.

Yes, you can google and find all kinds of negatives about Walmart. Walmart sometimes ends up shutting down mom and pop stores, they may have customers slip on their floors. But unlike Amway, Walmart doesn't have the terms "scam" or "pyramid" attached to them when you google their names. Amway does and because of unethical IBOs and tool companies, it would seem that the reputation is well earned over the years.

In the end, Amway is no competition to Walmart, where you live better and save money.

Amway Uplines - The Root Of Many Evils?

2011-09-27T12:31:00.000-07:00

Over the many years of Amway's existence, their reputation in the US and Canada has tanked. And it's not due to Amway the corporation, but rather Amway IBO leaders who teach and condone unethical behavior. Of course, I don't know of any significant measures that Amway has taken to discipline some of their wayward IBOs, but that's another story.

During my blogging career, I've seen young people who were discouraged from attending college so they could build an Amway business. I've personally seen people go bankrupt and lose their homes because they followed the advice of their all knowing uplines. Sure, people have some responsibility for their actions but I feel as if some of these kinds of actions by some IBOs and IBO leaders is predatory, and focuses on people who can least afford to funnel money into the business and the leech teaching systems such as WWDB or Network 21.

I've seen ridiculous product claims such as people claiming that bottled water could cure ills and make you athletically superior. Of course this water costs about $50 a case when you could buy 10 cases of water at WalMart for the same price. They claim superiority in their vitamins without unbiased scientific evidence to support their claims. Perhaps that is why the Amway vitamins seemingly are consumed nearly exclusively by IBOs themselves.

Despite claims by Amway supporters and IBOs that things are changing in Amway for the better, there is plenty of evidence that nothing has changed. Outrageous income claims. I thought the Dateline show exposed some crazy stuff with an IBO leader claiming that people could eanr $250K per year with a part time effort, but then my friend Rocket finds this gem with an IBOAI member and crown ambassador in WWDB/Amway claiming you can make hundreds of thousands of dollars a month: http://rocketsrants.blogspot.com/2011/09/amway-guys-they-sure-say-stuff.html

I wonder if Brad Duncan himself even makes that kind of money. Ironically, his triple diamond brother wasn't even close to that when his bankruptcy papers were exposed a few years ago.

So to Amway prospects and apologists, the Amway corporation itself may be perfectly legal and clean, but the root of many evils comes from Amway uplines and AMO leaders. It is for this very reason that many get turned off just at the mention of the Amway name. Amway can stop them, but will they?

Amway And MLMs A Con Game?

2011-09-26T11:10:00.001-07:00

Great Thread posted at scam.com:

http://www.scam.com/showthread.php?t=142975

It is stunning to realize the enormity of this con. Multi-million and billion dollar companies, stock exchange listed companies, companies that put on the facade of being a good corporate neighbor and innocent "business" (cough) next door.

Nework marketing is a flawed and unsustainable business model that effectively is fed and supported by those on the bottom. Those on the bottom work a job to fund their product purchases. Those spoils of war then are divided up by the upline and sponsor company. Those on the bottom, who use funds from their jobs (rather than product sales) to sustain the "business", are an ever expanding rotating door of new recruits.

Although the products may be of high quality and slickly packaged, and give the impression that you are a marketeer of these sundry goods...the reality is much different. You are required to buy monthly quotas for personal use and recruit your ass off to gain entry into the promised land. The product you are really selling is a dubious "business opportunity"...your real market is "opportunity seekers".

A real business markets and sell goods and services. They are sustained by real retail sales. They order only what they know they can sell. From what I see all these mlms push recruiting as the ticket to the good life. Products and retailing mean nothing.

Another major difference is a real business owner holds title to his business...something he can sell. In mlm, you own nothing but your small product inventory.

The nature of this false and flawed business model will always have in its wake a vast turnover at the bottom of the pyramid structure. Its the nature of the beast and can be no other way, all math aside. The many "losers and the quitters" and dreamers who hang in there waiting for their ship to come in are those who support the top and sponsor company. There will always be a relentless drive to recruit at the bottom as it has nothing to do with true product retailing to support the business but finding and recruiting opportunity seekers. The emphisis is always on finding new recruits rather than selling product. And indeed, many of these mlm businesses put restrictions on the associates ability to retail the product...which subtly strengthens its true goal of recruiting as the primary revenue stream...not product sales.

These "businesses" (cough again) are predatory and prey on the many by appealing to dreams of luxury and a life of ease, especially those with troubles in their life. The start money is low to get into the "business", which is unlike a real business that takes more sizable seed money, some knowledge and guidance and a real business plan.

Those few that actually make sizable incomes from these schemes must live with the knowledge that their life is supported by the broken dreams, efforts and losses of those on the bottom. They conveniently set aside any feelings of culpability after stepping on the bodies of their fellow man so they can proclaim that they worked hard and made it.

There simply is no parallel between a network marketing model as a "business" and how a "normal?" business really works. I understand this because I own a real business that retails real product.

Network marketing is simply the greatest con game of all time. They should all be shut down.

Amway Is Cheap And Low Risk?

2011-09-23T10:05:00.000-07:00

One of the stupid things said by IBOs and Amway apologists is that the Amway business is cheap and low risk. While it can be true, it is not a good reason to get into business. While upfront costs can be somewhat cheap, these same people often to do not mention the ongoing costs and the cost of tools, which can add up to tens of thousands of dollars after a relatively short period of time.

Even if the opportunity is cheap to get started, wouldn't a bigger factor in starting a business be how likely you are to succeed? Amway's own numbers reveal that the opportunity is a poor one. That the average IBO earns $115 a month and that about one half of one percent of IBOs reach the Gold/Platinum level, where you might earn about $1000 a month or so. So one out of more than 200 IBOs reach a level where you earn close to minimum wage equivalent earnings (gross).

Even if something is cheap, it doesn't mean it's a good idea. Wha if you were being sold a car? The car is dirt cheap, but it looks like it may have trouble running and may have mechanical problems. Would you jump in and buy it because the salesman says it's cheap and low risk? Or would you decide that it's not worth it, even at a very low cost?

Many Amway leaders and/or those who show the plan, like to show the very best case scenario to IBOs, without giving the prospect a realistic and likely result. It's like saying the lottery is a good way to make money because the lottery winners can show off mansions, sports cars, and other fancy things they bought with their winnings. While the Amway business is not a game of chance, the presentation is done in a similar manner. A diamond is probably a 1 in 20,000 proposition, yet it is presented as if everyone in the room can go diamond. It is mathematically impossible. What is truly sad is even if that one diamond were truly wealthy (I have my doubts though), nearly all of that diamond's downline is losing money.

Cheap and low risk might sound like justification to get started, but people should ask if their small investment is worth it. Most people, the vast majority, would be better off taking the family to a movie or a nice dinner.

A Better Way To Do Amway?

2011-09-21T13:46:00.001-07:00

One of the major reasons why I think Amway is not such a good opportunity is because of the unfair multi tiered compensation plan. I have heard that Amway pays out about 32-33% to their IBOs, but I find it unfair in that you get rewarded for sponsoring people who move volume more than you do for actually selling products. I believe this is why so many IBOs are desperately trying to sponsor people and in some cases, deception and trickery is used in recruiting, which contributes to Amway's bad reputation.

This multi tiered compensation plan also rewards a few people at the expense of the masses. If an IBO works really hard and sold 100 PV worth of goods, that IBO would get $9 or $10 in a bonus from Amway and layers of upline would split up about $90. I fail to see how that is fair, especially when IBOs seemingly say "do the work and get paid". In this case, you do the work and your uplines get paid.

I think Amway would be more efficient by giving all IBO's 20-25% back as a bonus, with the remaining 8-13% in bonus (33 - 20 or 25) going to certain levels os achievers. I believe that this would truly allow someone to change their buying habits and gain some value. It would also be good for retention of IBOs because a 100 PV would get you a monthly bonus of about $60. If you sold 100 PV to customers, you would get the retail profit plus the bonus. I believe there would be less of an emphasis on sponsoring and more of an emphasis on selling. It would put less pressure on IBO's to recruit and sponsor, and I believe that Amway's reputation could be repaired in this manner. While you would have less emphasis on "going diamond", those who did achieve it could still get handsome bonuses.

I believe implementation of this type of compensation would also eliminate the endless need for cds and seminars. Sure, product expos and some teaching on salesmanship might help, but I believe that compensating the "majority" of IBOs would keep them interested in doing business and would lessen the need for tools. I believe this is a win-win for the majority of those in the business.

I'm sure some Amway apologists will find fault in my line of reasoning, but I believe this is a long term sustainable solution for Amway.

Amway Complaints?

2011-09-20T17:17:00.001-07:00

Over the years, I have seen literally hundreds (if not more) blogs and testimonials about Amway. Most of them decry the pitfalls of being an Amway IBO. Most of the complaints cite the fact that Amway in general has higher prices than comparable retailers and the fact that the system consisting of voicemail, books, cds and seminars ate up any profits the IBO may have made and resulted in net losses for most. One particular Amway apologist bemoans the fact that the internet is full of bad testomonials about Amway. The reason why there are so many negative testimonials about Amway is because over the years, thousands, possibly millions either had a bad experience for the reasons I cited above, or personally know of someone who had a bad experience.

Amway defenders will often cite the fact that many IBOs sign up and "do nothing" as their defense to this. But I will easily point out that I haven't seen anyone say they signed up, failed to do anything or order products, quit and started blogging about a bad experience in Amway. These defenders will also compare Amway to the gym where people sign up and "do nothing". Whether true or not, I also do not see people who sign up and "do nothing" complain about not receiving health benefits by simply signing up. It is a very weak defense. Conversely, I have seen numerous accounts of folks like myself who did put in effort, some for many years, who did what upline advised and did not see the financial rewards that is promoted in "the plan".

Amway defenders will then try to justify themselves, saying that the better business bureau (BBB) receives few formal complaints about Amway. I will agree with this. Many IBOs never bother to file formal complaints to the BBB or to Amway because in many, probably most cases, the person who quits and may have had a bad experience, was sponsored into the business. The sponsor was often a friend or family member of the IBO who left the business. Many will simply leave and forget the episode and chalk it up to a learning experience in life. Some will complain, but really have to ne venue to voice their remorse about joining. Some of us have found the interent to be quite effective in sharing our experiences and our opinions on why the business did not work. This is what one Amway defender calls the "internet war". What I have pointed out is that critics most often simply point out what the IBOs themselves have done. In many cases, the IBO is his own worst enemy. Afterall, critics didn't deny Amway and Quixtar had a connection, nor did critics make up claims about perfect water, etc.

It would appear that most of the problems has a root in the AMO systems, such as WWDB, BWW, LTD, or N21. Now, not all upline leaders are unethical, but it appears that many are, and new IBOs have no way to identify the good from the bad. It also appears that some of these upline leaders will issue bad avice. Advice that is detrimental to the IBOs, but financially beneficial to themselves, such as telling IBOs to never miss a function, or to buy more cds. In many cases, these unethical uplines do not care about IBO success, their goal is just to move as many support materials as possible, so they can fund their "diamond" lifestyle. Sadly, it is also apparent that the diamond lifestyle may be a facade in some cases. An illusion of wealth portrayed as a recruiting tool.

If you recognize some of these warning signs, ask tough questions of your potential sponsor and visit this or some of the blogs linked to this one for more information.

Upline Wants My Money And Not My Success?

2011-09-18T01:31:00.000-07:00

One of the things my upline alway said was how they loved us, how they would never lead us astray, that our success was their success, that they didn't make pennies until we made dollars. Now as I look back, I know that our uplines in WWDB were full of crap.

First if all, some of our upline are hypocrites, talking about the 2% divorce rate of IBOs while the rest of the world is at 60%. Well, that is BS and WWDB leaders have a higher divorce rate. They speak about financial integrity but allow their homes to foreclose, which exposed the lies told by WWDB leaders that they pay cash for everything, including homes. I wonder if triple diamond Greg Duncan has settled his bankruptcy issues?

On the surface, the talk about downline IBO success makes sense. That a diamond and higher pins want IBOs to succeed because their level depends on movement of volume. It makes sense until you factor in the little detail that some, possibly most diamonds, make more from tools (standing order, premiere club, voicemail and functions) than they do from their Amway businesses. If diamonds make tons of money from tools, they don't need new leaders (platinums and above) because they would have to share tool money. It is more beneficial to these diamonds to have people join and buy tools, and quit, only to be replaced - because IBOs who succeed get a cut of the tools money.

It makes sense. Tool money is a sacred issue. The fewer slices of the pie, the bigger your cut is. It is why you can google and find so many instances of lawsuits putting diamonds versus diamonds and why diamonds break away from their beloved mentors - to get more tool money.

Ask yourself this. If your upline diamond cared so much about you and your success, why do you have to pay for just about every instance where you see him/her? (payment for functions, open meetings, etc.)

Try this. Ask your diamond if they truly want your success. If they say yes, ask why you need to pay for standing order, functions and open meetings if they benefit the diamond's business more than yours? Sure, it costs money to run functions and meetings, but why do the diamonds in general make more from these "tools" than from Amway? If not more, they certainly make a significant amount.

Does your upline want your success or your money??????

Beware Of The Dream Stealers!

2011-09-16T10:05:00.001-07:00

Some debates over Amway recently churned up some accusations once again about critics being "dream stealers". I thought I would address this but first I wanted to print the definition of a dream from dictionary.com:

dream
[dreem] Show IPA noun, verb, dreamed or dreamt, dream⋅ing, adjective
Use dreams in a Sentence
–noun
1. a succession of images, thoughts, or emotions passing through the mind during sleep.
2. the sleeping state in which this occurs.
3. an object seen in a dream.
4. an involuntary vision occurring to a person when awake.
5. a vision voluntarily indulged in while awake; daydream; reverie.
6. an aspiration; goal; aim: A trip to Europe is his dream.
7. a wild or vain fancy.
8. something of an unreal beauty, charm, or excellence.

–verb (used without object) 9. to have a dream.
10. to indulge in daydreams or reveries: He dreamed about vacation plans when he should have been working.
11. to think or conceive of something in a very remote way (usually fol. by of): I wouldn't dream of asking them.

–verb (used with object) 12. to see or imagine in sleep or in a vision.
13. to imagine as if in a dream; fancy; suppose.
14. to pass or spend (time) in dreaming (often fol. by away): to dream away the afternoon.

–adjective 15. most desirable; ideal: a dream vacation.

—Verb phrase
16. dream up, to form in the imagination; devise: They dreamed up the most impossible plan.

-------------------------------------------------------------

Based on these definitions, I do not see how it is possible for anyone to steal a dream. This dream stealing verbage is just more upline propaganda designed to get IBOs to shut off their critical thinking skills and to blindly commit themselves to buying more standing orders and function tickets, whose profit goes into the pockets of your beloved upline leaders.

I believe #6 is the most appropriate definition for an IBO. A long term goal. But if an IBO's long term goal is retirement and riches, they should analyze their involvement in the Amway business and determine if that is the appropriate vehicle to achieve their goals. For the vast majority of people, this is not the appropriate vehicle and facts confirm this. It's a matter of whether or not an IBO was told to ignore the facts by his/her upline.

The Real Amway Business - Selling Tools To Downline?

2011-09-15T11:34:00.000-07:00

I have been reading some ongoing debates about whether the system income for higher pins is more than their Amway bonuses. I believe the systems such as BWW, WWDB, N21 or LTD, does generate more profit for upline than the sale of Amway products. How the system income is divided though, is still a mystery as it doesn't appear that there are bonafide written contracts explaining how tools income is split up among the higher pins. There is also the debate of whether diamonds themselves or their "corporations" receive the profit, which is laughable as a defense.

But it's very easy to determine that more income is made from the system than from Amway. If you move $100 worth of Amway products, Amway will pay about $33 back in the form of bonuses. These bonuses will be split among the Amway IBOs (middlemen), depending on your level. On the other hand, if your group bought say 20 cds at $5.00each, the system will profit about $90 as cds cost about 50 cents each to produce in bulk. Some Amway apologists will cite the fact that some groups sell cds for $2.50 or $3.00. While this is true, there is a "member's fee" which must be paid. And when you add in the member's fee, the profit for the system is the same or possibly higher! Even when you factor in the system employees, you can easily see the math and determine where the real money is made.

If you buy a major function ticket for $125, the cost of that function might be in the neighborhood of $25 to $30 per attendee, so the system may generate $100 profit on a $125 sale. I believe the smaller functions such as open meetings, books and voicemail have smaller profit margins, but still overall, it's easy to conclude that the profit from the system is greater than profits generated by moving Amway products. I might add that the sales on these functions are often made in cash, thus who knows if the diamonds are even paying the IRS taxes on these sales.

The only question is how much each individual earns. I have "heard" that platinums get a discount on the sale of standing orders and cds, but I have never heard of a platinum sharing any profit for functions, voicemail, or any of the other materials. This is puzzling to me as I believe the platinums do the most work in the system, helping downlines.

So for the lower level IBOs, if you move $300 in Amway sales (Approximately 100 PV), you will receive about $10 or 3% while upline enjoys the rest of the $90+ in bonuses from Amway. And then when you purchase and move tools volume, you receive nothing and some of your uplines enjoy all of the profit. While I don't see any problem in upline making a profit for selling training materials, I see a problem in the fact that the tools don't work. So few IBOs progress to levels where an actual profit is earned that the use of tools cannot be justified. Amway supporters will point out the new platinums emerging each year, but do not mention the platinums who do not re-qualify.

Based on my observations, I can only conclude (quite easily) that there is substantially more profit from the sale of support materials for upline to enjoy, and I can also conclude that the support materials are ineffective in training downline IBOs so they can progress to higher levels of the business. But as PT Barnum once said, a sucker is born every minute.

Are There Benefits In Organic Vitamins Or Foods?

2011-09-14T11:27:00.000-07:00

Apparently not. Thus, one could conclude that there are likely no benefits in paying high prices for double x?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/earthnews/5932100/Organic-food-has-no-added-nutritional-benefit-says-Food-Standards-Agency.html

Organic food has no added nutritional benefit, says Food Standards Agency
Expensive organic food is no better for you than conventionally-grown farm produce, according to the Government's food watchdog.

In the most comprehensive study ever to be carried out into the nutritional content of organic food compared to ordinary fare, scientists found no significant difference in vitamins and minerals.

A separate study found there are no extra health benefits to eating organic food rather than meat, fruits or vegetables grown on intensive farms.

The Food Standards Agency (FSA), which commissioned the research by the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, concluded there was no reason to buy expensive organic food for nutritional reasons.

The study is likely to come as a blow to the billion-pound industry which is already struggling in the economic downturn as shoppers turn away from more expensive goods. For example, an organic chicken costs three times the price of a more conventionally-reared bird.

But celebrity chefs and organic farmers said the studies failed to take into account the health impact of the "cocktail of chemicals" left on conventional food and the environmental benefits of growing organic food on wildlife-friendly farms. Advocates claim the produce is better for you, with some claiming it can help cure skin conditions, asthma and even cancers.

However previous studies have proved confusing, with some claiming organic foods can provide more vitamins, while others find no difference to ordinary foods.

The new research looked for the first time at the best evidence over the last 50 years. After looking at 160 studies on the nutritional content of organic foods versus non organic it concluded there was no significant difference in vitamins and minerals that are important to human health. A further study of more than 50 studies on the health implications found no good evidence that organic food is better for you than non-organic.

Dr Alan Dangour, of the LSHTM, who carried out the studies, said the report was the most comprehensive review of the health benefits of organic food ever carried out.

"Our review indicates that there is currently no evidence to support the selection of organically over conventionally produced foods on the basis of nutritional superiority," he said.

Gill Fine, FSA Director of Consumer Choice and Dietary Health, said there is no need for people to buy highly-priced organic food for the health benefits.

"The study does not mean that people should not eat organic food. What it shows is there is little, if any, nutritional difference between organic and conventionally produced food and that there is no evidence of additional health benefits from eating organic food."

Why Should An IBO Trust Their Upline?

2011-09-13T11:33:00.000-07:00

Part of what Joecool perceives as the problem with the Amway opportunity is the utter lack of accountability of some upline leaders. They may tell you to trust them, to submit to them and simply copy or duplicate what they have done, and they imply that you will get the same results. Many downlines over the years have put in blood sweat and tears into the business only to suffer massive losses following the system. Upline will then place the blame on the downline. Citing that they either did not try hard enough or they didn't put in enough time and effort. Despite a shockingly low success rate of system IBOs, nobody seems to fault the system as being flawed. And nobody seems to question whether upline is at fault.

In my observations, I would say that many financial systems are similar. Whether it be BWW, N21, WWDB, real estate gurus or other systems, the success rate is low. Many systems that advertise on television will have a disclaimer that a success testimony is a rare or unique experience. I believe it is similar to the systems in Amway. Dedication or continued spending on the system is not the problem. The problem is often the system itself. It can work for some exceptional people. These people were likely to succeed in other venues anyway. The problem is that is does not work for the majority of people.

The bigger problem, is that for many many years, some uplines have lived high on the hog off of the dedicated tool purchases of their downline. All the while, quesitonable or bad advice was given to the faithful downline. Advice such as quitting a job to attend a function, skipping financial obligations such as the rent or electric bills to buy more tools. One upline even said your family can skip a meal because the standing order may contain the one thing you needed to hear to make your business grow. I have personally seen couples lose their homes and go bankrupt because they followed upline advice. Upline allegeldy "has their best interest at heart". Granted, the couple has some culpability in these decisions, but uplines who give this advice seem to get a pass.

Where is the accountability? Some of these uplines who give and gave bad advice, are still active today, and some are still giving bad advice to their downlines. Advice that profits upline and drains downline's resources. Even with valid complaints, it appears that many uplines avoid any accountability. For some, perhaps there is poetic justice, such as diamonds having their homes foreclosed. But as many uplines have nobody to hold them accountable, do you really want to do business with these folks? Would you invest your retirement money with a broker who could not be held accountable? Would you have your car repaired by a shop whose mechanics could not be held accountable? I believe the answer is no to these questions, yet many people are asked to trust and follow the advice of an upline who is not held accountable for their advice.

The system is credited for the few successes that are visible, but the individual is held accountable for any shortcomings or failures. IBOs, I encourage you to hold your upline leaders accountable for the advice they give you. If they won't answer tough questions or take responsibility, then one should wonder why the upline should be given your trust.

What Amway Success?

2011-09-12T10:50:00.001-07:00

When I was a young IBO, I saw the plan and thought it was realistic to go direct and to find six (6) downlines who could do the same thing. I didn't know the realistic chances of doing this, but the presentation made sense so I went with it. I basically built my group on excitement and it seemed like the system could work. Sadly, as I climbed the ranks, my bottom line did not change. I did not "net" $200 at the 1000 PV level, and I did not "net" $1000 a month at 4000 PV as my upline taught. I had the parameters they taught, but the reality was my leaders taught everyone to pump what little profits we earned into buying more tools.

My leaders also taught people to get out of debt, which was good advice on the surface, but at the same time, any disposable income left over was to be channeled into tools, and for those who did not escape debt, they were told it was okay to go deeper in debt, but only if it was to "invest" in their businesses by purchasing more tools. Thus it certainly appears that upline's advice was purely self serving and had nothing to do with an IBO's individual success.

I was in WWDB and they (upline) said that WWDB was breaking the most new diamonds and that WWDB diamonds were the most profitable. So here it is a dozen years later, where are all these new diamonds? Aside from from foreign diamonds, there are (I believe) less than 4 new diamonds from WWDB in the US from the time I left the business. Now I may be wrong, but even it was a few more than 4 new diamonds, that is a miserable success rate given the amount of cash spent by downline on tools and the claims made my upline about the tools.

We have also seen some WWDB diamonds end up in home foreclosures. Where is the integrity and financial acumen these leaders boasted about? Where is the success and long term financial security available to everyone that was touted? I believe more diamonds and emeralds fell out of qualification than new pins emerged. The business was promoted as one that would stand the test of time. Sadly, I believe WWDB and the Amway opportunity as promoted by WWDB has been a miserable failure. There is little success to speak of, just he same old tired diamonds showing off a lifestyle that some of them apparently can no longer afford. Where is the success?

It is years later and we are still waiting.......

Losing Money Is Success In Amway?

2011-09-09T11:38:00.000-07:00

Looking back at my IBO days, I can now laugh at some of the strange stuff we did and believe it or not, I have reason to believe that my old LOS, WWDB still teaches some of this and some other major groups also teach it. I believe some of these practices were the reason why some people refer to the Amway business as cult or having cult like qualities. If you recognize some of these practices, you might be in an unethical group and you should ask your upline the tough questions and possibly reconsider or reprioritize your involvement in the business.

Submission to upline was one of the things we were told. Our group was told that upline would never purposely lead us astray so we should trust them and never try anything without checking upline. Afterall, upline had experience and probably had all the answers. Some of this checking upline included asking permission to get married, buy a car or a home, or even something as small as purchasing a camera. The upline said maybe someone upline might have advice on how to get a good deal on a camera so no harm in checking upline before making a purchase. It is my guess that upline didn't want your disposable income being spent on anything other than standing orders and functions. Our group was taught to reduce debt, but ironically, upline said it was okay to go deeper in debt if it was to attend a function or to buy more cds.

Late meetings. Our upline was into late meetings, many occuring after midnight. I suppose it was a show of loyalty and dedication to the upline and the system. In reality, it made most people angry at their jobs because they had to wake up early to go to work. For me it made me mad at our upline because the meetings taught us nothing of substance and it just made us tired. Our upline used to talk about time being important but it was never important enough to make him show up on time for his own late night meetings. Another cult like factor - sleep deprivation.

Secrets. Anytime we asked about how much income uplines may have been earning, we were either told it's none of our business or shown a photocopy of a 10 year old bonus check that someone upline may have received. Our proof that the business worked was upline showing off pictures of sports cars and mansions. Of course we now find that some WWDB diamonds had homes foreclosed, and one prominent triple diamond had some dealings in bankruptcy court. Looking back, I suspect that many diamonds have mortgages, which would be nor problem except that these leaders scoffed at the stupidity of having a loan. That diamonds pay cash for everything, including homes. My former sponsor still lives in a run down rented home beause he won't purchase a home unless he's got the cash. My former sponsor is a physician so I find his position on buying a home preposterous. His oldest child, a son probably grew up deprived of his parents because of dedication to the system and the functions.

Losing money is success. Many times, our group was told that losing money was a sign of success. It was success because we were investing in our futures. That the business really is not about money but about friendships. I suppose upline taught this because everyone was losing money so it was nice to hear that success was around the corner, and that we were all nicer people and on our way to success if we just attended more functions and bought more standing orders. People who sold off some of their personal property were edified if they did so to attend a function. Obviously these folks were not advised to run their business within their means. Upline even said that going into debt was okay, but only if the debt was to invest in the business or to buy extra function tickets.

While some of these practices seem bizarre, I believe it is because the upline advice was self serving and meant to channel their downline's dollars into tool purchases. It is the only conclusion I can make. What's your conclusion?

Free Enterprise Day (FED) Is Coming!

2011-09-08T16:20:00.000-07:00

http://www.rurdev.usda.gov/rbs/pub/cir451.pdf

"Free enterprise is an economic system that allows individuals the opportunity to make their own economic decisions, free of government constraints, and as private profit-potential businesses".

In Joecool's opinion, the Amway opportunity has nothing to do with free enterprise. In addition to some governmental conditions, the Amway corporation itself has many restrictive features, such as no advertising without Amway's permission and approval, etc.

As an IBO, I attended a function called Free Enterprise Day (FED). It was held in a convention center in San Diego. I remember being excited when attending, and participating in the hype. But looking back with an objective eye, I can honestly say that it did nothing to help build my business. Sure, we got some motivation out of it, but being from Hawaii, a mainland trip in October, plus rental cars and hotel costed me over $1,000. It simply is not worth the expense versus what my business got out of it. I would rather have enjoyed a vacation somewhere else.

Also, the Amway business as an IBO is not free enterprise. An IBO is a commissioned salesperson with no guaranteed salary and no fringe benefits. Hard work does not equal success as in other sales occupations. It is possible to work very hard to receive zero dollars. What's more, much of an IBO's business expenses are not for business but for training and motivation. An Amway IBO's duties are to sell goods and to sponsor downline. Basically that's it in a nutshell but IBOs have fooled themselves into thinking that they are real business owners with real expenses. If only more IBOs knew this, they could actually make a net profit (without tools) and they would be motivated by net monthly ptofits.

Sadly, upline leaders lure their downlines into thinking that IBOs are engaged in free enterprise when they are not. At best an IBO is a middleman distributor and at worst, a commissioned salesperson. That is not free enterprise. What is also sad is that I did some research about renting space or convention centers and these can be rented cheap or possibly free, if the convention will bring many tourists to town. Go check for yourself. If it is free enterprise, it is your upline's tools business that is free enterprise. Sadly, for IBOs, free enterprise day is not free.

Are Diamonds Broke Like Everyone Else?

2011-09-07T15:09:00.001-07:00

I recently read an article on what constitutes wealth. Some say an annual income of $100,000 would make them wealthy, some say assets exceeding $4 million would do it, and some estimated that $2 million would make them "rich". Of course, everything is relative and someone earning $25,000 a year would think that $100,000 a year is wealth, etc. College students might think $40,000 a year is awesome because many have little money to begin with. I'm sure someone like Bill Gates would not consider $4 million to be astonishing. It's all relative. If you are content with what you have, you are likely relatively well off already.

But let's talk about Amway diamonds. I say diamond because it is basically the pinnacle of success. It is the crowning achievement of the 6-4-2 plan (or other variations) that many groups show. The average diamond earns about $150,000, according to Amway. Now $150,000 sounds like a lot of money to young people or to those with lower wage types of jobs, or those who are just starting out in their careers. But we also know that diamonds earn income from the sale of tools. Some groups advertise (verbally) that someone might earn $100,000 a year from the tools/speaking income.

Let's be generous and say the diamond earns $300,000 a year from Amway and tools income. Income tax and medical insurance for the family will eat up about 40% of that right off the top, leaving about $180,000. Fantastic you might say? Well, a diamond certainly would live in a million dollar mansion, which would give you about a $6000 a month mortgage or $72,000 a year, leaving $108,000. (Although many - a - diamond pays for their homes in cash) Fantastic right? Well, diamonds are constantly traveling to various functions, flying first class and staying only at 5 star hotels right? So an average of 1 trip per month with a family, first class and a 5 star hotel would probably cost about $5000 or more per trip, or about $60,000 a year, now leaving $68,000 for this diamond's yearly budget. A good diamond with a family surely consumes 300 PV per month for household goods, or about $900 a month or about $11,000 a year, leaving $57,000 for the rest of the year. A good diamond is often a Christian who would faithfully tithe 10% of his income, or about $30,000 a year, leaving the diamond with $27,000 a year, or about $2250 a month to pay for their monthly electric and utility bills, gas, car payments, meals and entertainment.

Yes, some expenses may be slightly higher or lower, but what I am trying to illustrate is that even an above average diamond with tools income is more likely to be broke than wealthy if they live the lifestyles portrayed at functions such as dream night or other major functions. Do the math. It is unlikely that diamonds pay cash for everything and it is unlikely that fabulous lifestyles can be sustained on a diamond income. There is plenty of evidence out there. Diamond's homes foreclosed, diamonds behind on income taxes, a prominent triple diamond in bankruptcy proceeding, many diamonds selling off their homes in a bad real estate market.

I truly believe that it is quite possible for many diamonds to be broke. What do you think?

My Upline Said So!

2011-09-06T10:28:00.000-07:00

When I was sponsored into Amway, it was by a friend. It wasn't my closest or best friend at the time, but there was still an element of trust. It was enough trust where I took his word as the truth, especially when it was related to the Amway business. I later started to see flaws and inconsistencies in what my sponsor and upline said, but at first I took things at face value, because it seemed to make sense and it seemed sincere.

For example, when my upline said they had our best interest at heart, and that they would do their best to help us succeed, it made sense. You build depth and solidify your business. Seems sensible. It seemed perfectly reasonable and sensible until I later learned how much money my upline was potentially making on tools. My upline (WWDB) stated explicitly that no profit was made on the sale of functions and tools, thus it only made sense that upline wanted downline to succeed. Knowing that there was no profit motive on tools, you'd trust that upline truly wanted the downline to succeed. Let me clarify that upline said there was tool profits, but that profits did not benefit the diamonds, and that the profits were reinvested back into WWDB to make the functions better and cheaper. As it turned out the no profits from tools was an outright bold faced lie told by WWDB upline. To this day, noone has ever been held accountable for these lies and it has since been forgotten.

Based on things written and information available on the internet, I have reason to believe that WWDB continues to teach the same stuff today, as they did 15 years ago. They teach that IBOs should purchase homes in cash, that jobs are no good, that the wife should stay home, that WWDB IBOs have a 2% divorce rate compared to 60% for the rest of the world. Some IBOs are so flippant that they believe that only Amway IBOs have integrity in this world.

What is scary is that so many downline get systematically brainwashed into thinking that everything but Amway is no good and that only IBOs are good. Some of these folks are good and hard working, but they have been caught up in a systematic scam. They believe their upline qithout question and anything said by upline is the gospel truth and everyone else is wrong. These folks also censor information and worship their leaders. It is why so many people compare some Amway groups to a cult.

It is a bit scary but it's happening on this very day. A sad sight to see.

It's Great For Amway But IBOs Are Still Losing Money?

2011-09-04T12:15:00.000-07:00

I hear ridiculous claims from IBOs at times. They make all kinds of claims that have nothing to do with their business. For example, Amway recently reported their sales at 1 billion dollars in a month. It's good - for Amway! It has no bearing on IBOFightback Enterprises, or whatever you call your business. In fact, because most Amway IBOs lose money, you could concluude that more Amway sales could result in more IBOs losing money.

Amway Arena had a rock concert! Great for Amway - it has no bearing on John Smith Enterprises. The DeVos and Van Andel families are billionaires! Great - it has no bearing on an IBO's business. Amway winning awards has no correlation with an IBO making a net profit. Amway recently reported a partnership with the Detroit Red Wings. Great, but that helps IBOs in what way other than having a topic of conversation?

So many IBOs mistakenly or ignorantly confuse Amway's success for their own. Of course it helps when the corporation gets good press because it can help them recruit downline by having something nice to point out. But then again, many IBOs don't sell goods, they "buy from themselves". If you buy from yourself, then all of this good press does nothing to increase your sales. Without sales, you can't make money unless you recruit tons of downline, and even at that, without sales and many downline, you may be running an illegal pyramid.

All of the good things happening for Amway or because of Amway - is it increasing your bottom line? Is it helping your "Independent Business"? If not, then why brag about it? Aren't you an IBO - Independent Business Owner? Can you make the same or similar claims about your own business?

P.S. Amway is NOT endorsed by the BBB or FTC. IBOs who make these claims are possibly in violation of the Amway IBO rules of conduct. IBOs should go look it up if they don't know what I am referring to.

Make Money Exploiting Your Downline!

2011-09-03T17:32:00.001-07:00

Of course there are some people who make money in Amway. If nobody made money, then the opportunity would cease to exist. But it is basically exploitation of the downline that accounts for upline success. Amway's admission that sales to non IBOs are low, confirms this. Thus certain upline make their income from their downline's PV volume, and on tool purchases. I mean even a lottery has winners. Even ponzi schemes and other questionable opportunties have some winners. This is not to suggest that Amway in not legal. Amway is perfectly legal, but the way the opportunity is set up, those who profit, primarily do so at the expense of their trusted downline.

There are no groups that I know of where all the IBOs can win and earn a profit. I would guess that there might be a few rogue groups who only focus on retail sales, and while these groups can be profitable as a group, they are few and far between. This is because most IBOs fall under an LOS such as WWDB, BWW, LTD or N21, and these groups all seemingly focus on recruiting of new IBOs. Yes, they may sprinkle in some suggeestions about selling goods, but generally speaking, their "training" materials consist of motivation speeches, feel good stories (whether true or not), and the theme of never quitting while continuing to purchase more tools.

Some upline have the nerve to start teaching downline that their Amway business is not about making money, but to save your marriage, make you a nicer person, or some other diversion to make you forget that you are losing money month after month after month. Some groups even mix in religion and politics into their functions and meetings. As far as I can see, the typical business buildiing IBO signs up, gets some of the tools and attends a few functions, and finds that the products are hard to sell because they are not priced competetively with other retailers, and that a damaged reputation is nearly impossible to overcome. These IBOs realize they are not going anywhere, and they walk away, chalking up the losses as a life lesson. But apparently, many uplines who lied and deceived in the past are continuing to do so today, often just revising history for their benefit (i.e. lying about making any profit on tools).

Many IBOs, prospects, information seekers and critics read this blog. My question is very simple. What is so great about the Amway opportunity? For most, it is just a bad use of time and money. While some may exist, I don't know of a single person who "did the work once" and sat back collecting barrels of Amway money while sipping Mai Tais on the beaches of Jamaica. I see crown ambassadors working as hard today as they did many years ago. Diamonds losing homes to forclosures, a prominent diamond in bankruptcy proceedings, and a hoard of WWDB diamonds apparently selling off mansions that they allegedly paid for in cash. (It os quite possible that their lifestyles are simply not sustainable).

Where is the benefit in the business for the typical IBO? Just as there are some diamonds, there are lottery winners. Displaying a lottery winner doesn't make it prudent to spend your money on lottery tickets. Displaying a diamond's lifestyle doesn't make Amway a good opportunity. While Amway is a business and not a game of chance, the results of either, sadly are eerily similar - that is a few winners and millions of non winners.

What is so great about the Amway opportunity? I don't see it.

The Amway Opportunity Is "Fair"?

2011-09-02T11:16:00.000-07:00

One of the bogus things my upline taught us was that the Amway opportunity was fair. That it was a completely level playing field. On the surface, that sounds right because "everyone starts at zero". While everyone does start at zero, the compensation plan is unfair to those who "do the work" and in my opinion, should be revamped so lower level IBOs make more money. It would probably help with IBO retention and maybe, some higher level leaders wouldn't have to work so hard to keep replacing people who quit. It is my informed opinion that many IBOs quit because they aren't making a profit. Real profits would motivate people to stay involved in the business.

If you are a new IBO, then you might not be really familiar with the Amway compensation plan. Amway pays out about 30+ percent of their gross as bonuses. Thus if you move 100 PV in goods, or about $300 in sales, then Amway pays out about $100 in bonuses. You as a new 100 PV IBO, would receive about $10 and your uplines, some of whom don't even know you exist, will split up the remaining $90 in bonuses. It truly is not a case of doing the work and getting paid. You are doing the work so upline gets paid. To add insult to injury, upline wants you to purchase materials (functions and other tools) that tries to convince you that this is a good deal.

And something very significant to think about. In what other sales profession are you compensated so low (3%)? I can only think of real estate, but in real estate, your sales are likely in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. In just about any other sales related profession, you get a much higher cut than 3%. Yes, your bonus or commission can be higher if you move more volume, but then you are likely receiving more money because you are now exploiting people doing 100 PV who get only $10 back. In other words, your profits come from your downline's pockets.

Even after you consider the unfair compensation, you must factor in the cost of tools. Most uplines promote tools (cds, voicemail, functions) as vital to an IBO's success. Some uplines push the tools harder than others. But the tools purchases will often be the primary cause of IBO financial losses because the cost of tools will normally exceed an IBO's bonus. It is very common in the US for monthly tool purchases to exceed $200 a month on average, and very very few IBOs will ever reach a high enough level in the Amway compensation plan to earn enough just to break even. Also, the tools apparently do not work. There is no unbiased evidence to suggest that tools have any causal relationship to IBO success.

With Amway's spotty reputation and the unfair compensation plan, IBO retention is spotty. Many IBOs sign up and do little or nothing, and many IBOs don't even last a full year before they quit. What happens is IBOs begin to figure out that recruiting downline is next to impossible and therefore, generating more volume is nearly impossible, even for individuals with skills. If you are a new IBO or a prospect, I encourage you to sit down and really look at the math and factor in the cost of tools. There are many ways to earn a dollar, I just don't feel that Amway is an efficient way to do that.

Amway Makes Me Nicer?

2011-09-01T10:16:00.000-07:00

When I was an IBO, I remember at many meetings, the speaker would talk about how IBOs are helping people by getting them in the business or at least showing them the plan. Looking back, I fail to see how inviting someone into a business where they are virtually assured of losing money (in the systems) is helping them. This is also how some IBOs think that they are suddenly "better" people because they think they are helping people by being an IBO. My upline used to talk about how IBOs were helping people. Yet when community projects were going on, we were in meetings and functions.

On average, Amway products cost more than big retailers so a prospect is not necessarily helped by purchasing Amway products. For IBOs purchasing Amway products, they are taking away from their local economy by purchasing Amway goods, although I guess you could argue that the IBO is helping Amway to succeed. But they certainlt aren't helping anyone.

IBOs who are actively building a business usually have many meetings to attend, and hard core IBOs are taught not to miss any meetings. Therefore and IBOO has less time to spend with his or her family. The IBO has less time to spend at church, and less time to help with any community projects. The IBO will probably miss someone's wedding or birthday celebration because of the hectic schedule of an IBO.

While all of this activity is happening, IBOs also have less money because the voicemail, standing order, functions and books and other expenses eat away at an IBO's resources. Thus IBOs have less to contribute to charity.

So an honest question. How do IBOs help people by building an Amway business? How are they better people by showing someone the plan?

Im my informed opinion, the nicer and better person is what upline teaches as a side note to distract an IBO from the FACT that they are losing money. Much of this is because of the defacto 100 PV and tools requirements. They also make it seem as if IBOs are "helping" people by showing them the business plan. When you think about it, perhaps just the opposite is happening. This is another tactic, IMO that uplines use to justify an IBO's lack of progress, much like how they tell downline that they are successful just by getting themselves to a function.

Upline Hypocrites?

2011-08-30T14:03:00.000-07:00

Now that the internet is so accessible, information flows freely and some of the dark secrets of the Lines Of Sponsorship have been exposed. Also, as times passes, it is becoming clear that a bunch of upline leaders are major hypocrites, apparently motivated by greed and personal gain. I believe this trend will continue as well. It appears that these same leaders have managed to get around Amway's accreditation guidelines, which appears to be toothless.

Many upline leaders appeal to their audience by talking about how the Amway business can save marriages. I remember sitting in an audience when some diamonds spoke about how couples who build the business have a less than 2% divorce rate as compared to the national figure of 50% or so. One major reason cited was the financial stress that J-O-B people had (not enough cash). But now we see some upline diamond leaders getting divorced and in some cases, no explanation is offered, as if the missing spouse was beamed up by aliens. Many leaders simply revise history or deny that certain events happened. Some leaders just pretend nothing happened and it seems like IBOs are very forgiving, thus no real accountability has ever been applied to upline leaders.

People also found that some diamonds make a lot of money from tools. When I was an IBO, we were told very clearly, that nobody made profits from tools. That profits went back into the functions to make them better and cheaper. (Has any function gotten cheaper in the last 12 years?) In fact, when I was an IBO, I was told that WWDB was a non-profit entity, which was a bold lie. I will admit that upline later changed their story to WWDB was a for profit company, but nobody kept profits, thus the channeling money to make events better and cheaper. Agsin, when have events ever been cheaper. Now I don't think that events should be run pro bono, but the leaders should be transparent about it rather than the lies and shroud of secrecy that often accompanies talk about tools and tool income.

Some upline leaders also spoke of how utterly stupid it was to take out a loan as the banks make so much money off the interest. We now see some of these very leaders having their homes foreclosed! Some of these diamonds were the very ones who said their pay cash for everything, including their homes and cars. It is not in the hopes for these folks to suffer, but it is exposing the lies and deception that leaders used to entice IBOs to join and to purachse tools that were supposed to help IBOs to attain the same lifestyle as the diamonds. However, rather that more diamonds, I believe WWDB and some other LOSs, at least in the US, have fewer diamonds now than 15 years ago. Where's the evidence of success?

What's even more amazing is how the hypocrisy of some of these leaders are exposed to downline and the downline simply ignores it and continues to follow blindly without an explantion or questioning the leaders after the incidents are exposed.

IBOs should ask their leaders questions when these kinds of issues arise. And you should think twice if the answer you receive is silence or deflections.

Amway - Double X Vitamins

2011-08-29T12:06:00.000-07:00

A review of Amway's flagship vitamin - double x:

http://energyfanatics.com/2007/09/17/nutrilite-double-x-multivitamin-review/

Nutrilite Double X is a multivitamin that contains a wide variety of vitamins, minerals and phytonutrients per serving. If you have not heard of Nutrilite, according to its researchers, it is one of the world’s leading brand of dietary supplements. My review on Double X is based on taste, price, energy level, vitamins and minerals, and health benefits.

Nutrilite Double X – Retail Price: $29.95 (10-day supply) $74.75 (31-day supply)
Size: 60 tablets (10-day supply), 186 tablets (31-day supply)
Taste: 6/10
Price: 7/10
Energy Level: 7/10
Vitamins & Minerals: 9/10
Health Benefits: 7/10

According to Amway/Quixtar IBOs, Double X is one of the best multivitamins on the market because it contains more plant concentrates than the leading brands of multivitamin. Is this why Double X is more expensive than the leading brands of multivitamin? Or is this just a marketing trick to encourage you to buy it? At the price of about $75.00 it is expensive, but when you break it down the cost is about $2.50 per day. From this point of view, it is a decent bargain but it would of been an even better bargain if all of its vitamins were high quality, and extracted from better or natural sources. How do I know some of its vitamins are low quality? Please read the whole review and you will find out. Like most multivitamins, it does not taste sweet like candy cane. Instead, it has a light-bitter herbal-like flavor, just swallow it whole and you should be fine.

Double X is a supplement that I can usually take without any problem because I do not experience major bad side effects. I took Double X regularly for a week, than stopped taking it for a few days and felt a noticeable change in energy. I usually take this supplement on a semi or full stomach to avoid the minor side effects. Taking this supplement on an empty stomach gives me a minor upset stomach and makes me feel lightheaded. The feeling usually lasts for about 30 minutes.

I do not recommend taking more than two servings of Double X per day, because you may end up consuming too much vitamins and minerals which can be toxic in the long-run, especially if they are not created properly.

Is Double X all natural?

The video at the bottom of this page claimed that Double X has more plant concentrates than three of the top multivitamins combined: Advance Formula Centrum, One-A-Day, and Pharmanex Life Essentials. Double X may have more plant concentrates but many of its vitamins and minerals are synthetic. This was a little shocking because according to the video Nutrilite grows, harvests and processes plants for its vitamins on its own certified organic farms. Some of the synthetic vitamins in Double X are vitamin A, C, E, vitamin B1 (thaimin), B6, B12 and niacin. According to the supplement facts, 75 percent of vitamin A is from natural beta carotene. Independent researchers suggested that synthetic vitamins do not work as well as natural vitamins and can also be toxic. Vitamin toxicity can occur if the vitamin is not created properly or contaminated with harmful substances such as metallic aluminum. These types of problem happen more than people may realize. These are some of the reasons why I stopped taking Double X.

How do I know Double X contains low quality synthetic vitamins and minerals?

To find out if Double X’s vitamins and minerals are synthetic or cheaply made you need to look at the supplement facts on the back of the box. Below is a list of some of the vitamins and minerals listed on the box of Double X.

Vitamin B6 (from pyridoxine hydrochloride): “From pyridoxine hydrochloride” means that the source of vitamin B6 is from pyridoxine hydrochloride which is the synthetic version of B6.

Vitamin C (from ascorbic acid): Ascorbic acid is the synthetic version of vitamin C. The natural vitamin C complex is made of many different components. Ascorbic acid is only a small part of the whole chemical structure of vitamin C.

Vitamin B12 (from cyanocobalamin): Cyanocobalamin is only one part of the vitamin B12 complex. Cyanocobalamin is easy to create in lab and is cheap, which is why supplement manufacturers love using it. The natural version of B12 is created by bacteria and is more expensive to make.

Magnesium (from magnesium oxide): Two of the best sources of magnesium are magnesium taurate and magnesium citrate. The reasons are because they are easy to absorb and utilize by the body. Magnesium oxide is hard for the body to utilize and is very hard to absorb.

These are just a few example of the cheap vitamins found in Double X. Once you learn how to tell if a vitamin is synthetic or not, and high quality or not, you will know if the supplement you are buying is high quality. The supplement facts will usually help you with this. By reading Double X supplement facts, it becomes clear that it is just an average dietary supplement that is overpriced. It is important to know that not all synthetic vitamins are bad. Some do work but you need to find the ones that are easy to absorb and are created with care. The problem with vitamins is that they are usually dried with high heat before being packaged. This will destroy some of the vitamins that are sensitive to heat. As a result, the amount of vitamins you get per serving is misleading.

Your Upline Helps You - Or Themselves?

2011-08-26T16:47:00.000-07:00

Over the years, I have encountered many IBOs and they often have a common theme. They trust their upline and in some cases, consider them mentors. Now in a business venture, it might be good to have a mentor or someone to guide you, but in the Amway opportunity, most of the upline mentors make money off those who they mentor. That is a major conflict of interest but IBOs simply fail to see it. Just about any "help" you receive results in compensation for someone upline.

When an IBO sees the plan in a big meeting or function, the speaker will often be built up as a financial guru, and possibly as an expert on how to succeed in Amway. An IBO may hear something about the trail was already blazed by upline and you just need to follow the trail. Don't re-invent the wheel, just copy what upline did. But as I have said many times before, duplication sounds easy and looks good on paper, but in real life, the vast majority of IBOs run into problems that they simply cannot overcome, such as the bad reputation that the Amway name has in the US. High prices for products don't help either.

What is troubling however, is that IBOs are taught to trust upline and do as they say (defacto requirement), but they are also taught that failure is their own shortcomings, even when they do exactly what upline told them. It is also troubling that many uplines will tell their faithful followers that they need to purchase more and more tools (voicemail, cds, seminar tickets). In some cases, an upline may advise their downline to sacrifice basic family needs to buy these tools. I saw some IBOs who were advised to skip meals to buy a cd, or skip paying the mortgage to be able to attend the next big function. The results are devastating for some.

I might also add that as a newer IBO or prospect, you may have heard that "everyone starts at zero", or that it's a level playing field. It is not. As a new IBO, you will likely be in the 100 PV bracket. Since Amway pays out about 31% in bonuses, your upline(s) will split up about 28% in bonuses off your efforts while you get a 3%bonus. That doesn't sound very level to me. In addition, you as an IBO are paying for this priviledge when you buy tools.

So each IBO should look at things objectively and see if your upline is actually helping you or simply helping himself by giving you advice that ends up in profit for himself with little or nothing for you.

Dead Or Broke At 65 - How Does $115 A Month Help You?

2011-08-25T15:16:00.000-07:00

One of the myths that IBOs and IBO leaders perpetuate is that 98% of people will be dead or broke by the age of 65. I have debunked this myth more than once, but I had an interesting thought about this subject. If people are destined to be dead or broke by age 65 as IBOs claim, then for sure the Amway business is not going to change that end result. It is likely to ensure that you end up broke, provided you live to be 65 years or older. Imagine people who go all in for Amway, and wind up with $115 a month? You would be a surefire qualifyer for food stamps or some other government assistance with that kind of income. Ironically, Amwayers use the fear of being broke as a means to recruit people to do Amway.

Amway's own numbers show that the average IBO earns $115 a month. And that $115 a month is not counting IBOs who did nothing, and it is gross income, meaning that business expenses and taxes have not yet been factored in. Unless you have a large nest egg, pension, and/or some kinds of investments to live on, the amount of income that the average IBO earns from Amway won't make any difference in their lifestyles. In fact, if an IBO is putting 10-12 hours a week into their business, then that IBO is earning less than $3.00 an hour for their efforts. You would be better off doing much more lucrative work such as flipping burgers or greeting customers at WalMart.

Seriously, if you are looking at Amway as a business opportunity, then the average earnings should be alarming. The person prospecting new people will say that the average is low because many people quit or don't work hard enough. The question to come back with would be why this is so if the business was so efficient and the products were so good. If you note that the average income is $115 a month for IBOs and .5, yes, that's one half of one percent reach the level of Gold/Platinum where you might earn $1000 a month (before taxes and expenses), then most people would conclude that it is not a good business proposition. I wonder if many Amway prospects are young and inexperienced in life, thus unable to properly evaluate a business opportunity? Or do Amway recruiters make the business sound simple and easy, which would be deceptive?

If you want to earn less than minimum wage on average, then Amway might be the perfect opportunity for you!

Your Upline's Dreams Fulfilled At Your Expense?

2011-08-25T12:03:00.000-07:00

One of the issues I have with the Amway plan is that the newest IBO, possibly the one who does the most "Work", receives the smallest compensation. Amway pays about 32% of their income back in the form of bonuses. An IBO who does 100 PV receives a 3% bonus and somewhere, uplines and sponsors receive the rest. Some of the upline may not have even met the IBO who actually did the work. Is that really fair and is that a level playing field? What do some of these uplines do to deserve the lion's share of the bonus you worked to get? Yes, the upline diamond may show the plan in an open meeting, which may help you, but then again, you pay for entrance into that meeting.

Many uplines will talk about dreams and fulfilling your dreams. But if an IBO would stop and think for a moment, you can easily see that you are building the dreams of your upline, and not your own. You receive a tiny portion of the bonus for the volume that you move, and then in addition, if you are on the system, then you are also paying upline in the form of tool purchases for the priviledge of giving them bonuses with your product purchases.

It is why your upline diamonds can parade around on stage with designer suits and show you their fancy cars and mansions and other toys. It is because they are cashing in on your efforts. You are making their dreams come true. Your dedication to moving volume and purchasing standing orders are fulfilling dreams. The upline dreams. Yes, someday you can hope to have your own group of downline to exploit for your own benefit, but unless you are adding members to your group regularly, you will never achieve the kinds of dreams that uplines talk about. In the meantime though, you are definitely helping someone upline achieve their dreams with every function you attend. Ironically, the upline leaders will tell you to never quit, even if they don't know your personal circumstances and/or how your business is progressing.

Here's a challenge for IBOs and/or prospects who are being recruited into the Amway business. 100 PV will cost around $300 a month and dedication to the tools system will cost you around $150 to $250 a month on average. Would you not be better off simply writing a check to your upline for $100 and not even joining? Would you not be better off staying home and watching television instead of joining? If you read all of the information available on this blog and still decide to join, good luck to you, but remember this: Whose dreams are being fulfilled by your participation?
Yours or your upline?

The Return Of Quixtarisacult

2011-08-24T16:31:00.000-07:00

Welcome back my friend!

http://quixtarisacultintervention.blogspot.com/

Quixtar? isn't this Amway? I'm sure a lot of prospective recruits into the former Quixtar pyramid recruitment scheme have asked that question. It all seems so amusing to me now. Shouldn't people being exposed to the supposed new Amway Global pyramid recruitment scheme now ask the question: But isn't this Quixtar?

The former Amway cult became the former Quixtar cult which is now the present day Amway Global cult. A cult by any other name is just as bad I suppose? The historic bad legacy of Amway continues; and yes, it is still a cult, a pernicious (harm doing) cult. They still operate by proselytism of the unwary into a 'closed market swindle' preying on their own with little regard for the thousands of thousands who have historically lost in the Devos/Van Andel merry-go-round of greed.

I find it ironic that Amway is now willing to cough up well over 100 million dollars to re-compensate present and former 'associates' who GOT SCAMMED by Quixtar! Of course they admit no wrongdoing? Of course they settled pyramid scheme allegations made by former 'associates' out of court.

I'd really like to say to all those former Quixtar Independent Business Operators I TOLD YOU SO! Of course that might seem like gloating which it is. The truth has always been out there. The writing has been on the wall about Quixtar/Amway. British born author and Amway critic David Brear coined the best descriptive term for Amway: The Financial Holocaust. Indeed Amway's history reads like a crime story. I sometimes grow weary of repeating the same bad themes about Amway, but there is always the hope that just one prospective recruit can be saved the anguish of realizing the bad truths of Amway after the money's all gone.

Quixtar just seems like an appropriate name for the Amway cult. What could they have been thinking? Shouldn't this Quixtar affair be continuously served up cold and rubbed in Amway's face? Isn't it significant that Amway is coughing up a very small percentage of their swindled loot to settle with the 'taken' in their former Quixtar Cult?

Amway, again, manages to settle their pyramid scheme problems out of court and stay in operation. With very minor changes in their carefully devised swindle, they continue to rope in the unwary (or the greedy) and continue their swindle worldwide unabated. Of course that is the bad news. For those squandering thousands of dollars in a Quixtar nightmare, there may be a check and some rather mundane Amway products on your horizon. Your intentions to defraud others into your scheme may pay off in an unexpected way. Lucky you!

"The Amway slot machine rings up a couple cherries I suppose, not exactly the three gold bars as originally promised."

The proposed settlement may still be in the hands of the presiding judge. You would think that the Department of Justice might take a long look at the alleged Amway corruption. I suppose the DOJ will just take Amway's word for it that they are admitting no guilt by settling the suit. Again, this all plays out like past Amway affairs. Amway watchers and critics have good reason to be jaded!

Your Upline Is Just A Salesman?

2011-08-23T10:07:00.000-07:00

Our group (WWDB) edified people who bought extraordinary amounts of extra tapes/cds, extra function tickets and made superhuman efforts to get to functions. Looking back, I remember an IBO who was edified for coming all the way to a family reunion function in Portland Oregon when he was diagnosed with terminal cancer. The speaker said he could have been miserable spending time at home but here he was making a difference in people's lives. WTF? I once wrote a post about how IBOs think they are saving the world and helping people when in reality, the masses of IBOs are only "helping" their diamonds to attain material wealth by purchasing function tickets, voicemail, standing orders and other materials. While people are doing community service, IBOs are sitting in functions and rah rah meetings.

I would agree that some training and information can be helpful for new IBOs but I do not see any value in a neverending supply of cds and and endless number of meetings and functions. The very thing (support materials) that uplines claim is your key to success is the very thing that nearly guarantees business building IBOs to financial struggles. Our upline wanted IBOs to be out of debt, which is good, but they would also say in the same breath that it was okay to go into hock if it was to attend functions or to purchase additional support materials. Sadly, many IBOs do not see through this self serving advice.

Most people, including myself are very wary when we deal with car salesmen. We are wary because we know that the salesman is out to make money off of us and will try to sell us every option in the book. Thus we negotiate and reject the car options that we don't really need to or. Guess what? Your uplines are like car salesmen except that they sell you different options such as premier club, standing order, book of the month, function tickets, voicemail, open meeting tickets. Just like a car buying customer, taking all the options maximizes the car salesman's commission and the car dealer's profit. Buying all the support materials increases your upline's profits. Imagine the car saleman telling you that the extended warranty was vital to owning the car. You'd think twice about it, yet uplines will tell you that functions are vital to your Amway business and many IBOs buy it hook line and sinker. I hope this analogy will encourage IBOs to think of support materials as options on the car. You don't need any options to make the car work. Just as you don't really need support materials to buy and sell Amway products, and to get some downline to do the same.

We are wary of car salesmen. In my opinion, downline and prospects should be just as wary of uplines who promote tools as "vital" to your success in Amway. Keep in mind that a sponsor is obligated to help train any downline, regardless of whether they are on the system or not.

Get Rich Slow?

2011-08-22T11:28:00.000-07:00

One of the things upline used to say was that Amway is not "get rich quick". I suppose they say this because most people would more likely think scam if they promoted it that way. But when you stop and think about it, 2-5 years, build it right and you have willable, residual income for like while walking the beaches of the world? That's not get rich quick? Or is it more of a disclaimer so that the opportunity doesn't sound "too good to be true"? One thing is for sure, even if uplines tell you that it's not get rich quick, it's obvious that IBOs think they will eventually get rich, even if it's not "quick".

What most IBOs don't figure out quickly enough, is that they are unlikely to even make a profit, let alone getting rich in Amway. How many of these people exist? Where are all of these retired Amway IBOs who built a business in 2-5 years and then walked away from their business and will be collecting a significant residual income for many years to come afterwards? I don't know of a single person who has done this and none of the Amway defenders and zealots I have encountered over the years have been unable to supply this information either. It's like some kind of myth or urban legend that people have actually retired from Amway on residual income. We also know that due to attrition, it is virtually impossible to maintain a profitable Amway business. People quit the business daily, thus even what looks like a solid business can be gone in a very short amount of time.

I can acknowledge that Amway is a business opportunity and will definitely take some work to be able to achieve something. But thinking realistically, what business could you actually be able to walk away in 5 years and not work again? More than likely that business doesn't exist, whether it's Amway or not. Say you opened a conventional business. There wouldn't be many scenarios where you could walk away after a number of years. The business would still require work and maintenance. But for some reason, people are mislead to believe that you can do this in Amway where there is a high attrition rate and where your business can only expand by person to person.

Sadly, many of the people who are attracted to the Amway opportunity are often young people looking to get more out of life. They are often ambitious but may lack a means to gain wealth, thus the appeal of the opportunity is there. Unfortunately, these nice young people are more likely to end up channeling their hard earned dollars into standing orders and functions which will almost guarantee that they end up with a net loss. The bottom line is that not only is Amway not get rich quick. The more likely scenario is that your involvement with Amway will very likely be not getting rich at all. A net loss is the most likely result. I challenge anyone to try and prove me wrong on this point.

Why People Associate Amway With "Scam"?

2011-08-20T14:41:00.000-07:00

I've seen many debates recently on why some people think Amway is a scam. Normally a defense of all this is that the abuses or the scam part of business, being the tools, is not the fault of Amway. It is true that Amway the corporation does not scam anyone, or sell them these tools. However, the groups such as WWDB, BWW, or Network 21 are run by IBOs. They are run by Amway IBOs. Even though the Amway corporation is a seperate entity from these tool companies, these tool comapnies are still run by Amway IBOs and they use the Amway opportunity to capitalize on the downline as customers of the tools.

While there is nothing wrong with some personal development and motivation, I believe there is a lack of honesty and tranparency in how the tools business is administered. For example, how many IBOs actually know exactly how to qualify for a cut of the tools income and is there a specific compensation plan for these tools? Allegedly, there are some documents explaining this but I do not believe the rank and file IBOs know about the details. In cases where diamond income was revealed, diamonds made significant income from the sale of tools. Some diamonds make a lot more from tools than from Amway. Also, since a diamond recognition is forever, even non qualifying diamonds can be getting significant income from Amway.

So why the label of scam? Because so few people actually make money from the Amway opportunity. Amway defenders like to cite that most IBOs simply do nothing. While iy may be true, this in itself represents a problem with the recruitment process or the recruiters. Even if you examine a big function where there may be tens of thousands in attendance, I wonder how many have a net gain after expenses? I would guess the answer to that is a fraction of 1%. Amway's own numbers reveal this. $115 a month average gross income. And .5 (one half of one percent) of IBOs reach the Gold/Platinum level where you earn about $1000 a month gross income, or near the equivalent of full time minimum wage.

And to gain this full time minimum wage proposition, you must overcome incredible challenges, including being able to replace IBOs who quit, and to replace them ast enough so your volume doesn't diappear. Thus some IBOs, desperate to sponsor, resort to tricks and deception to get people to see the plan. I experienced it myself. These actions, coupled with a low success rate, make it seem like a scam for most, especially when the tools are claimed (by the tool sellers) to be a bonafide means to success in Amway. Add all of these up, and over the years, you develop the reputation of "scam". Amway can do more to restore their reputation, but it is unknown to the public in general what and if anything is being done about the abuses.

Amway IBOs Help People?

2011-08-18T12:06:00.000-07:00

One of the things my upline said at nearly every meeting was how we were helping people by sharing the dream and showing others the Amway plan. "Helping people". He claimed that IBOs became better people and were doing good for the community by helping people. I always thought this was odd because the only people we really "helped" were those who got into the business. We didn't hang out with or help anyone else. We didn't do community projects and many of us had little money to help others because we were buying products and discretionary money for most IBOs were mostly sucked up by the system and the tools.

How do you help someone when your life is dedicated to buying and selling Amway products, recruiting Amway prospects and attending Amway related meetings to learn how to recruit more Amway IBOs and to motivate yourself to never quit the business. I used to think about people doing volunteer work, or community service projects, or even outreach through their churches. These are the real everydy heroes who are helping others. While an outreach volunteer feeds the homeless, IBOs are in meetings. When people are doing community service projects, IBOs are showing the plan or prospecting the malls for new recruits. Who is actually helping people?
IBOs only help people who are interested in joining Amway. Aside from that, it wasn't apparent to me that IBOs did much of anything to help others.

Yes, I am aware that IBOs at times, contribute to Easter Seals and the like, but do they invest the kind of time that others do? And I'm not faulting IBOs, but simply pointing out that the Amway business activities can eat away at your time and prevent you from spending time with family and friends, and prevent you from actually "helping others". While the Amway business is no different than other businesses and the like in that regard, I do not feel that the tiny average earnings of IBOs make it worth their while to spend all of that time in meetings and recruitng to make their return on their investment a worthwhile activity. While you trade hours for dollars at a job, you trade hours for losses or pennies in Amway (for most active IBOs).

So in all of the activities you engage in as an IBO, are you helping people? Or are you only helping people who might be interested in joining your Amway business? Are you truly wanting to help others or your Amway business......