The really insidious part about some of the LOS leaders, such as the ones I had in WWDB, is that they apparently are cutthroat ruthless businessmen with nice suits, and disguised as your mentors and friends. They get you to trust them, and they will tell you that they have your best interest at heart, or that they would never purposely lead you astray. On the surface, you may think this is great, but look at their actions and you can easily discern that some of these uplines are absolutely ruthless businessmen who would take every cent from you if they could. I was in WWDB and I have good reasons to believe that they are still doing this, based on a WWDB IBO blog. On this blog, I see all the same teachings today, that I heard as an IBO and some of the same claims such as buying homes in cash. It's scary. The bar is slowly raised as your trust goes up until you to immersed in the tool system. The tool system will drain your bank account one cd, one book or one function at a time.
As an IBO, the diamonds would tell you to never miss a function, ever. The only good reason for missing a function was for your own funeral. I recall some crossline IBOs rearranging pre-planned anniverssary parties, weddings, and other special family events in the name of being core and attending all functions. Some IBOs actually quit their jobs to attend functions and they very well may have done so because some uplines taught this. IBOs were also encouraged and told to go into debt to attend a function. This was okay because it was an investment into your business. Going into debt for an Amway business is insanity as your business is not even generating enough income to pay for the tools or products you consume (for the vast majority).
Our group was also strongly encouraged to buy extra cds every week. To be core, you needed to listen to a cd each day and you cannot listen to the same one each day right? Couples were told to buy their own seperate standing orders. Brad Duncan even had a true north tape (cd) that said sponsors were to eat the standing orders for downlines who quit because it was too much trouble to call upline who calls upline who calls upline to cancel a standing order. Oddly enough, they didn't mind upline calling upline calling upline to add a standing order.
In the end, I was lucky enough to have been progressing up the pin ranks so my losses were not that devastating. I ended up losing in my early months of the business but mostly broke even when I was at 4000 PV. Sadly though, my crossline did not fare so well. I know of one couple who declared bankruptcy. I don't know how much their WWDB involvement contributed to bankruptcy, but I am certain it was a major factor and I know of two couples who had homes foreclosed, and I believe that their allegiance to WWDB was a factor in those foreclosures. But I guess hey, two WWDB diamonds had homes foreclosed so maybe they were duplicating?
Do not be fooled. The diamonds may have a nice smile and a nice suit, but they are ruthless businessmen who will take your last dime if you allow them to.
I call those ruthless businessmen kingpins (as the courts do). Their business advice are lies, more lies and damn lies. Joecool, at some point, possibly Amway will decide to take their corporate offices out of the U.S.. I estimate that much of Hebalife's problems have brought them much consternation. Of course, they've got a lot of friends in high places working behind the scenes to keep Amway's tit out of the wringer. David Brear's latest post on MLM: The American Dream Made Nightmare has a good video on the Lyoness scheme. It's a classic:
ReplyDeletehttp://mlmtheamericandreammadenightmare.blogspot.com/2014/08/lyoness-lie-under-investigation-in.html#comment-form
Thanks for the comments. I agree. Although I doubt the FTC will have the cajones to shut down Herbalife, a significant blow to MLM would be to shut them down and send a message to the MLM industry. The FTC does not act fast enough and when they do, seemingly confuses the issue by not clearly defining things like end user. They allow the IBO to be an end user but clearly the intent of the retail sales rule is not for IBOs to self consume. If that were the case Amway would not have defined retail sales as non IBOs.
DeleteI believe Amway made that rule to be in compliance with the FTC rule even though it seems as though Amway doesn't do much to enforce that rule.
Many the diamonds I see of the 90s are gone. Use to hear names like toshi and bea taba edc. Heard they are active or involved anymore. Are they losing more north american diamonds than replacing them with new ones?
ReplyDeleteToshi is gone. Brad Wolgamott and Kosage are gone. There are others who quit or dropped out. I haven't heard of any new diamonds in the US in quite a while.
DeleteSince diamonds don't last very long. I wonder how many are in financial problem? They aren't necessarily the most frugal bunch.
DeleteI can't prove it but I think many diamonds are in debt and possible living check to check also. You're right, they portray an diamond lifestyle and it's not frugal. The reality is probably debt for many diamonds. Why would they be any different than the rest of the world?
DeleteEven if a diamond earned say $20,000 a month, they can be broke if they are living the high life. Imagine living with a big income and still being in debt?
The nba and nfl players have bigger average incomes. But I hear horror stories every few months of how they lost it all living the high life.
DeleteYes, the pro athletes often go broke living beyond their means. Just like Amway diamonds.
DeleteThere is insurance with a brain dead athlete who overspends. It's their hefty pension plan they get. Might take a few yrs to get. With Amway people like Greg Duncan who goes bankrupted. Has no safety net of getting a decent pension.
DeleteNobody really knows but I wonder if Duncan is still living check to check in debt?
DeleteJoe, you probably have a better clue how bankruptcy works. I thought he still owes money to many people. Where he makes monthly payments. He's lucky if he gets off without owing money. Hes at least a double diamond so has six figure a month income. So renting and month to month isn't that bad. I bet he regrets quitting med school by now? Lol
DeleteActually, Duncan doesn't have a six figure per month income. He did make a lot of money. According to Duncan's Montana public documents, he made nearly a million a year or about $80,000 a month. Half from Amway and half from tools. He owed a lot of back taxes and he had tons of debt from trying to flip houses. He's a hypocrite because he used to call people stupid for making loans and there he was with a bunch of loans and credit card debt.
DeleteHe might be able to work his way out of debt since he's got a pretty large income but I don't know why people would want to follow his counsel anymore.
That's truly pathetic if Greg doesn't make atleast 2 mil per yr. The type of lifestyle he portrays. He should be taking his own advice. Pay everything with cash and only spend what he can afford.
DeleteApparently Greg lied about paying everything in cash. He not only had homes foreclosed, he owed back taxes and had credit card debt.
DeleteJoe, when I see Brad Duncan's house and cars. I think he makes min 200k per month. I use to think Greg was in that neighborhood. Its very sad if its all for show and nobody is netting much.
ReplyDeleteWhen Greg filed for chapter 7 bankruptcy, his income was made public. He made just about $40K a month from Amway and about the same from tools. His total inccme was about $500K from Amway (per year) and $500K from tools. That's a lot of money but not the kind of income you'd think a triple diamond would make. Despite that income, he was having several homes foreclosed on, he hadn't paid his taxes in several years and he had significant credit card debt. Apparently the man teaching IBOs about money couldn't manage his own finances.
ReplyDeleteAfter his bankruptcy became public. I doubt he made much from speaking engagements. So the number you're stating might be even lower now. If the industry looks down on divorce. Wonder what they think of him being bankrupt?
DeleteI'm not sure if IBOs know. I was in discussion with an IBO back then and he said people were smearing and telling lies about Greg Duncan. Maybe their downline believes him and thinks nothing happened. It's possible because I believe Duncan was still doing functions while all this was going on.
DeleteI do notice many edc and diamonds not living it up as much as brad Duncan,Greg Duncan,or puryear. When I look at their profile its usually a nice car like Benz and a above average house in a OK area.
DeleteHere's the link to the Duncan Bankruptcy. Read all about it!
ReplyDeletehttp://www.amquix.info/duncan_bankrupt.html