Breakdown of CORE and why it doesn’t work. Here are the CORE steps. Some groups may have variations of CORE, but this is generally what many groups use. Some things may have changed but the general premise is likely the same:
1 - Show the Plan (10-15 per month)
2 - Retail the Products (10 customers @10 PV each)
3 – Tapes/cds
4 - Books
5 - Functions (attend all)
6 - Accountability
7 - Counsel with Upline (Be teachable!)
8 - Buy 100% of your own products
9 – Communikate
Many upline will tell you that your success is 100% guaranteed if you follow these steps for 2-5 years. Some Amway enthusiasts will tell you that 6 months of this activity will nearly assure you of a platinum level business. Certain steps are within the IBO’s control, such as reading every day and listening to cds, and attending functions. It is also easy enough to be accountable, counsel with upline, buy your own products, and use KATE (voicemail).
Here’s where an IBO’s efforts will break down. Showing the plan and retailing products. And remember, if you cannot do these steps then you are not considered “CORE” and your upline will likely tell you that it is your own fault and that you simply haven’t been CORE, therefore you did not achieve success. There is some truth in this but let me expose the system in a different angle.
Amway has a spotty reputation in the US. I don’t think anyone can dispute this fact. Therefore, for the vast majority of people, being able to show the plan 10-15 times per month is a nearly impossible task. If you are able to do this, you are a really good salesman or a good liar. In this scenario, the IBO is already successful, but not because of CORE, but simply because the IBO has the gift of being able to convince people into seeing the plan. But for many IBOs, they may contact hundreds of people and not be able to get anyone to see the plan. Even IBOs who follow upline advice on how to contact will probably not be able to show 10-15 plans per month. Thus this IBO, who is doing the work, will not be able to succeed. The system will blame the IBO, but the reality is that the IBO has too big of a disadvantage to overcome.
Secondly, with high prices (on average) and with a spotty reputation, most IBOs are unable to retail products. Amway itself has admitted that less than 4% of Amway products are sold to customers (non IBOs). Thus most IBOs are unable to sell products, therefore they are not CORE, therefore upline will blame the IBO for failure..
What if an IBO contacts 1000 people and cannot get 10 people to see the plan? Upline will claim that IBO is not CORE and therefore it is personal failure of the IBO. IMO, the only reason why upline can claim that CORE works is because in order to do the CORE steps consistently, you have to already be at a certain level of success. The vast majority of IBOs cannot and will never be able to reach that level.
That is the myth and the deception that many uplines will use to attract recruits. That each IBO can do the CORE steps. When only a fraction of 1% ever reach the level of platinum or higher, the numbers strongly support what is written here. Apologists are welcome to try and prove me wrong, but they can't. :D
Its funny to me that every person who does this business well (millions of people) you consider them a liar - only due to you being a failure. I have now read several of your bitter blogs and you continue to repeat yourself. You are out of touch with many structure changes that have taken place over several years and I really think you need help.
ReplyDeleteAlmost 60 years of success and you still think its a bad business?? Millions of successful ABO's. 20k+ employees across the globe via ABG. Tons of philanthropy, educational support, growing leaders, grooming outside services and companies.
What have you done successfully? Anything at all? Do you help anyone? Ever?
I do so love Amway! Millions of ABO's and thousands of employees all making a great wage with benefits. I'm amazed that two guys (Jay and Rich) could start a multi billion dollar company from their garage. Capitalism at its best and so many of us that live in the US have received a positive impact. Buildings and companies in Michigan, Ohio, Florida, Arizona and California that support so many in the United States. We are truly blessed to have this business in America!
ReplyDeleteWhat "millions" of people are doing well in Amway? According to Amway.com, only .26 or about 1 in 400 IBOs reach the Gold level. At the Gold level, you gross about $1200 a month. $1200 a month is about equal to minimum wage full time, but not factoring in business expenses.
ReplyDeleteFYI, I didn't "fail" in Amway. I did what I was advised to do by upline and achieved what they asked of me but I ended up losing money due to business expenses, which were also advised by upline.
Joe Cool...you continue to lie. A gold level makes more than $1,200 per month, you just don't have the information. Anyone that gives it to you - you call them a liar with no proof. When you are corrected with facts you change the subject and look the other way. Why are you okay with making up numbers and data to try and discourage others? You failed miserably and you still have not answered my question...what have you done successfully? What did you do that makes you an expert? What have you contributed to society? What have you done to help any other person make even $1,200 per month and why are you the one deciding what enough income is? You did fail and you hide behind a fake name with fake numbers and poor yourself into this worthless blog. I just don't understand how you have been filled with so much hate and bitterness. Surely there is something better you can do with your time?
ReplyDeleteYou ask what millions of people are doing well in Amway...well, over 4 million ABO's are not wrong. They put their time into doing what they love...running their own piece of business. They choose their hours, how hard they work, where they live. Why is this not good enough for you?
The Ambots are out in full force. Typical amspeak, everyone else must be a failure because they aren't in Scamway. With all the facts available on the internet and in the media in general not to mention an almost 100% failure rate, how can these people possibly believe what they are typing? How many new diamonds have emerged in the last 5 years? How many diamonds have gone bankrupt? How many so called successful IBOs have retired and are walking the beaches of the world? The same old recycled Diamonds are speaking at the major functions and the same tool scam continues to line their pockets all while Ambots ignorant to the facts right in front of their face come to sites like this and spew factless crap. Don't get me started....
ReplyDeleteIf you claim I am making up numbers, you are free to provide a quote and a link. If you show that I am wrong, I will retract what I said and post whatever is more updated.
ReplyDeleteBut to claim I'm lying at providing no evidence, is jus fluff.
What have I done successfully? Well, my blog is closing in on 2 million page views since about 2010 or so. That's pretty successful.
I never said anything about being any kind of expert so I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.
What have I done? Well, over the years, many people have said they read my information at didn't join Amway. Since they avoided paying for an IBO signup fee, cds, voicemail, books and functions, they likely saved more than $1200 each.
If my blog is fake and worthless, why are you having a meltdown criticizing me for running this blog? I'm not bitter or hateful about anything. Not sure where you got that idea. Truth be told, you sound more bitter and hateful that I run this blog.
Over 4 million Amway IBOs, with less than 1% actually making a net profit. That's not much to boast about. If people like paying Amway so they can sell products for them and shell out money to upline, that's their right.
Many people don't like to do that so they seek information about Amway. That's why they visit my blog. If you don't like it, you can choose to stay away.
Joe, we're really getting under their skin!
ReplyDeleteThe sheer rage visible in these posts at 3:06, 3:10, and 3:56 is revelatory. Whoever this guy or these guys are, they are in a state of baffled panic and fury over the fact that this blog continues to kick the living shit out of Amway and Amway's pyramid-scheme racket.
They don't have to come here if they don't like the blog. But they continue to come because they are infuriated.
Anon at 7:46, thanks! Like I said, my blog sits here on the "net" and people come here on their own. They choose to read what I say. Then they whine that I'm hurting business or whatever. The fact is my blog sits here and people choose to read what I post or not. I don't force anyone to read my material. But it's funny that people come here to complain that my blog exists......
ReplyDeleteYou're right Anon @ 7:46
ReplyDeleteIn spite of having hit a nerve, not one critic actually even begins to argue the points that Joecool made. Nobody motivates, for example that showing the plan 15 times month after month is simple. Nobody argues with reasons that having 10 retail customers is easy. Nobody is trying to proof Joecool wrong or explore how 15 plan shows translate to signifficant quality recruits and eventual wealth. That is the same in all blogs that go into specifics. If Joe gives stats, like less than 1%, nobody says no it's actually 50%.
What we are seeing instead is sheer rage, blanket accusations of lying, or nit picking an incidental point regarding gold earnings with nothing to back it up. On that point it would have been nice to enlighten us to what the number should be, if Joe's number is wrong.
No doubt this blog is keeping people informed about the Amway trap. But give credit where it's due, it is actually these comments from Amway apologists that help a great deal to make real casual observers, or people that have just been prospected, stay far away. It just looks different if nonsense is repeated away from the hype of a show evening or a guided presentation.
Well I've landed here after performing search for an awesome WWDB couple - saw what I want - clicked on this link and am here, and posting, for the first time, ever.
ReplyDeleteI just shake my head in a pitying way for the majority of the posters here. Joecool, you once were a dreambuilder and you've quit to go back to building someone else's business, right? If I were to live by the crap I see here then I once had a bad experience with a plumber in Norway, so according to the logic here, all plumbers on the planet must be idiots. The fact is Joecool that you lost or never had a goal worth talking about, you were ineffective, you quit and here, you mouth off as you probably always have while being anonymous, expecting high credibility. The world is full of people like yourself - it takes absolutely no skill to build what you've built here. Anyone can critize, but a true mark of an idiot is to contracdict world news because you like to steal the potential from your readers. Anon art 7:46? You're not getting under anyone's skin - I am not looking for people like you nor Joecool because I don't need either one of you - you're both providing other people only criticisms but no solutions of you own. People such as yourselves simply have no solutions, only harm.
It's funny that you shake your head in pity. I was in WWDB and I can say for the most part, the unethical teaching I observed is still happening. You know what's more funny? People who spoke about WWDB savings marriages got divorced (Wolgamott, Kosage). People who spoke about financial freedom had homes foreclosed (Duncan, Shores) Some crown ambassadors dies while still working the Amway business. Where's the ultimate "freedom" that IBOs cheer about?
ReplyDeleteThe fact is that I lost or never had a goal? Now how in the world would you know so much about me to be able to make a statement like that? Fact of the matter is I'm going to retire at the age of 55 with enough resources an income to do a lot of traveling to nice places and I'll be able to live comfortably the rest of my life. I own a home and a rental unit in Kailua, Oahu. Try looking up the average price of homes there.
"It takes absolutely no skill to build what you're built here". Actually, my many years of blogging have taught me how to write better, how to debate better and how to frame my thoughts better. I also have nearly 2 million page views since blogger started tracking it in 2010 or 2011. I'd say my blog might be one of the most successful Amway related blogs on the internet. I wear that as a badge of honor."
"I don't need either one of you - you're both providing other people only criticisms but no solutions of you own." Actually, I do provide alternate solutions to Amway. Doing nothing is better than losing money in Amway. Watching football games on TV is better than losing money in Amway. Even working a minimum wage job 1 shift per week is more lucrative than Amway.
Amway's own stats say the average IBO earns $202 gross income. (source Amway.com) And the $202 is after disregarding about half of all IBOs as "inactive". Thus the real average gross income of all IBOs is about $100 a month, not factoring in business expenses. Add in the cds, voicemail books and functions and the average business building IBO loses money. The $202 average includes diamonds and crown ambassadors.
Basically, Amway sucks as a business opportunity.
@Joecool - either you never were an IBO associated with WWDB nor Amway, or, you're intentionally leaving out crucial information for your readers. The Amway Corporation operates with full disclosure and they publish that the average monthly gross income for *active* IBOs is $203.00/month. Then they go on to define "active", to wit: when they "attempt to make a retail sale, or presented the Amway IBO Compensation Plan, or received bonus money, or attended an Amway or IBO meeting. If someone sustained that level of activity every month for a whole year, their annualized gross income would be $2,484.00..." That figure is USD.
ReplyDeleteSo, if I buy a few products from my business that I use to buy at Safeway, Albertsons or wherever, but better quality and with a 180-day no questions asked money back guarantee (thereby tripping over 100 PV/month to earn bonus money), or I show the business plan to my dog because I'm scared of people, or just attend a meeting (similar to carrying a gym membership in my wallet and reading their bulletin board once per month), or if I ask my neighbor if they'd want to buy a pack of gum, then I am "active" in the business and earn $2,484 gross, on average, each year. So let me ask you two questions: 1) does Safeway or wherever you buy stuff offer as good a deal as this? And, 2) you do possess the mental facilities to understand that if 10,000 "active" IBOs sit on their butts for 29 days each month, that would only lower the average for all, including the Crowns, correct?
You write about divorce and bankruptcy as though these exist only in an Amway business model. So you tell your readership, since you trained yourself to be so skilled at blogging, is divorce and/or bankruptcy a usual ingredient for evaluating a JOB? Or, do many take on jobs because, well, hey, go timing? But since you and other dream stealers so often use divorce and bankruptcy in your attempts to analyze a business model, Kosage was divorced before he became a diamond and that had zip to do with the business. Brad Wolgamott had issues with character. So all plumbers on the planet that have a failed marriage must just be *horrible* at plumbing if they are divorced, according to your skilled logic ones again. Now to bankruptcy - to wealthy business operators in ALL INDUSTRIES bankruptcies are used as the tool that they are - to shift money around, or to prevent a freeloader filing a suit to take any part of another person's family legacy away unearned. Limited Liabilty Corporations, S Corporations, other legal avenues also provide protections to limit the owner's liabaility. But to keep it simple: all plumbers, then, who operated their own shops but filed bankruptcy due to economies or, more often, a lack of business knowledge, and went to work again at plumbing must suck too? According to your logic.
See next note for the continuation...
Why aren't you quoting stories about the dozens of Double Eagle Rubies (~$140,000/yr USD) that have crossed into freedom from their jobs? By the dozens, I mean the 20-something year olds during the past 1.5 years that will never work a job again, nor will their children. Might someone in their 20's become divorced to file bankruptcy? God forbid but, let's face it, it could happen between now and the year 2097 to a few. I hope it doesn't but if it were to, that does not seem to be a reflection on either Amway or WWDB as much as on the daily decisions made by the individuals themselves.
ReplyDeleteAnd finally, anyone can retire at 55 - that doesn't take much of anything except luck, being in the right place at the right time or strategizing to a limiting degree. For example work a job and play the penny stocks as a day trader - it could happen. WWDB does not focus on merely YOU retiring at 55 but you retiring 2-5 years after launch regardless of age, with a multi-generational passive income stream that benefits not only you but your children and grandchildren, and the people in the neighborhood, and your parents, and... By the use of the word "you" of course I do not mean YOU, personally, cause that train already came and left for you. YOU only spend your time now lying intentionally or by omission to your readership in an effort to justify your own decisions already made. How of-zero-benefit you are.
"" If someone sustained that level of activity every month for a whole year, their annualized gross income would be $2,484.00..." That figure is USD""
ReplyDeleteThat average is deceptive. An IBO moving 100 PV earns about $10 a month, or $120 per year. So disregarding "inactive IBOs, but counting diamonds and platinums, the average income is $202 a month. Not impressive at all. If someone worked 10 hours per week, they averaged about $5 an hour on average. Less than minimum wage.
""1) does Safeway or wherever you buy stuff offer as good a deal as this? And, 2) you do possess the mental facilities to understand that if 10,000 "active" IBOs sit on their butts for 29 days each month, that would only lower the average for all, including the Crowns, correct?""
I get discounts on gas for shopping at Safeway and I use a cash back credit card which earns me 1-3% back for doing nothing.
10,000 "active" IBOs sitting on their butts is redundant isn't it? They are classified as active for a reason.
""And finally, anyone can retire at 55 - that doesn't take much of anything except luck, being in the right place at the right time or strategizing to a limiting degree""
Except Amway IBOs right? They work until death because they love Amway? I can retire early because BEFORE and AFTER my stint in Amway, I worked part time and invested that into my retirement fund.
""WWDB does not focus on merely YOU retiring at 55 but you retiring 2-5 years after launch regardless of age, with a multi-generational passive income stream that benefits not only you but your children and grandchildren""
ROTFLMAO! Name one person, and prove that they are retired living with multi generational passive income streams from Amway and WWDB. Not a single person has been able to name even a single one. And not just name one, but name one with evidence.
Again you accuse me of lying but FAIL to say what I'm supposed to be lying about. You do a better job of making my point than I do.
""Why aren't you quoting stories about the dozens of Double Eagle Rubies (~$140,000/yr USD) that have crossed into freedom from their jobs?""
ReplyDeleteI'd be glad to. Where can I find these stories with verification that they make $140K and where can I find information about their downlines?
This information would be like quoting stories of people winning the power ball lottery. I know that some people succeed an make good money in Amway, but they are like power ball winners in that many lose in order for the one to win.
""You write about divorce and bankruptcy as though these exist only in an Amway business model. So you tell your readership, since you trained yourself to be so skilled at blogging, is divorce and/or bankruptcy a usual ingredient for evaluating a JOB?""
Actually, someone in Amway is no different than anyone else. People get divorced and people go bankrupt. But it becomes an issue when Amway and WWDB leaders tell audiences that Amway and WWDB saves marriages. Sort of hypocritical for Brad Wolgamott to make the claim don't you think? Isn't it a lie for Greg Duncan to say that he only pays cash for houses and everything else and than file for chapter 7 bankruptcy and have multiple homes foreclosed?
These things are only issues because they were brought up as selling points for Amway and WWDB.
""Now to bankruptcy - to wealthy business operators in ALL INDUSTRIES bankruptcies are used as the tool that they are - to shift money around, or to prevent a freeloader filing a suit to take any part of another person's family legacy away unearned. Limited Liabilty Corporations, S Corporations, other legal avenues also provide protections to limit the owner's liabaility.""
Greg Duncan filed chapter 7 bankruptcy. That's the type that "broke people" file. Corporations may file chapter 11 to re-organize their business. Chapter 7 is a different game.
BTW, how did Greg Duncan lose homes to foreclosure is he was honest about saying he paid cash for everything?
About averages: you want to illustrate that someone doing 100 PV per month earns about $10/month (it's a bit more than that), but then you want to include commentary about diamonds and platinums. The trouble here is that Platinums generate a minimum of 7,500 PV/month and earn considerably more than $10/month, and a Diamond? A Diamond has trained leaders to become leaders - a minimum of six of them - and they run ruby volume on the side. Most if not all at this pin earn more in a month than you do in a year. So why are you focused on the absolute, Day #1, brand new IBO generating 100 PV a month?
ReplyDeleteYay, you get discounts on gas for shopping at Safeway. How many times have you been able to duplicate what you're doing there and rather than save, you're earning?
Come on! Really? No one has ever been able to name even one person that has retired from their Amway-affiliated business? *cough*
https://youtu.be/Xv_eOaw24jw <- it's on the Internet therefore it must be true, huh, Clownshoes? I don't have to prove a damn thing to you. Go do the work yourself.
Amway IBOs work until the day they die?? Most people that have ready at least one book on success knows that if we do what gratifies us, we tend to do THAT for life. Here's some example of the sentiment: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/keywords/do_what_you_love.html. By the way, Branson, with Virgin Air, loves what he does, is wealthy but keeps doing "his thang", and he isn't even affiliated with Amway. Is it so weird that Crowns or Diamonds or whatever still do what they love? It really isn't so weird to imagine someone hating their job and giving up time away from their families to settle for it. Pfft.
Amway has, since 1959, paid out $55.9 BILLION dollars to the IBOs or Independent Business Owners. How's your boss doing?
http://www.euromonitor.com/amway-claims
One final thing, the next time, be armed with logic if you want to battle using it. Yes, you are a liar and I believed the train of thought was intact, now seeing that it was not. My apologies. You are a liar because you love to mouth off about the averages as if that doesn't mean a calculation of ALL IBOs worldwide, including the majority that sit on their butts and merely bought in like a gym membership - you ommitted the definition for average as issued by the corporation. Math may not be your thing either.
Ask Greg Duncan those questions yourself.
ReplyDelete""Yay, you get discounts on gas for shopping at Safeway. How many times have you been able to duplicate what you're doing there and rather than save, you're earning?
ReplyDelete""
That's more than what most IBOs get for spending time doing Amway.
""Come on! Really? No one has ever been able to name even one person that has retired from their Amway-affiliated business? *cough* https://youtu.be/Xv_eOaw24jw <- it's on the Internet therefore it must be true, huh, Clownshoes? I don't have to prove a damn thing to you. Go do the work yourself.""
A youtube video is just that. It isn't evidence of lifelong passive income that is multi generational. No financial disclosures. If these folks were making all that money, they would prove it and nothing else needs to be said. People who want to give an illusion of wealth create youtube videos. I can create a video of me in front of a mansion or in a sports car. It doesn't mean I'm wealthy.
""Amway has, since 1959, paid out $55.9 BILLION dollars to the IBOs or Independent Business Owners""
And divided by the tens of millions (or more) of Amway IBOs, that averages out to about $100 to $200 a month, including the diamonds. *shock*
""You are a liar because you love to mouth off about the averages as if that doesn't mean a calculation of ALL IBOs worldwide, including the majority that sit on their butts and merely bought in like a gym membership - you ommitted the definition for average as issued by the corporation""
That's no lie. I used the Amway issued information that the average active IBO earns $202 a month and that's after disregarding about half of the IBOs. Even doing so, the average income is $202 a month which doesn't factor in business expenses and taxes. If these active IBOs are buying voicemail, books, cds, open meetings, functions and the works, they are probably LOSING money. The average active business building IBOs is likely LOSING money each and every month. Thanks for proving my point.
I don't need to ask Greg Duncan myself. His bankruptcy was public record in the State of Montana. All the documents could be read and copied from Pacer.
Joe, this pro-Amway "Anonymous" must be off his meds or something. He screams that he doesn't care about us, or what we say, or else he calls us losers and failures who harm people, but nevertheless he feels compelled to come here and post long illogical screeds about how good Amway is.
ReplyDeleteWhat did I say before about Amway freaks? Here it is again: WE ARE GETTING UNDER THEIR SKIN! This blog and several others are starting to have a measurable negative effect on the ability of Amway IBOs to develop down-line or to push product. Hence the rage, the frustration, the furious anger and boiling spite that you see in these posts by the guy. He's a walking bag of resentment.
If he actually were content in Amway, he'd ignore us completely. If he were honest, he'd tell us precisely how long he has been an IBO, and how much cash he has lost in that time.
Also, I invite him to go and post at Anna Banana's blog. There he'll REALLY get his ass reamed out.
Independent Businesses are not publicly traded - they are privately-held, multigenerational assets. Because they are not public there is no law mandating that a private citizen must report earnings to the SEC such as publicly traded companies are required to. Therefore you need to go out and dig yourself - I do not answer privacy questions about other people.
ReplyDeleteFirst comment connected with your gas card, weak. In reality I have Amway branded products that I do not buy at Safeway, and consumables, and Apple Computer, Home Depot, Macy's and a boatload of other partner stores that I use, and in fact duplicate in a global economy, indefinitely. That means anywhere in the world where the corporation has operations (100+ countries and territories). You do not have the capability with your lil ol' gas card. Much like Safeway chose to partner up with the gasoline company, Apple Computer (for one) has chosen to partner up with the Amway Corporation, as has Macy's and all the rest. So sure, the entire legal team at Apple and the other household names purposely partnered with a "pyramid scheme". *yawn*
You are correct - anyone can use YouTube to conjure up anything they want to, which you described you might do. Some of us, however, really do celebrate our victories and the victories are those we love and care for. Not everyone nor everything is out-to-get-ya. And as I already made quite clear, I don't need you and I wouldn't sponsor you even if you wanted to be. We aren't looking to change people, but rather, people that are ready to change yesterday. You ain't that guy. Heh heh...
Tens of millions or more of Amway IBOs?? Wow - anything to make your BS math add up, huh? There aren't even one million IBOs on the planet. One of your readers posted that we don't broadcast showing 15 plans a month (paraphrasing it). Well, we do, and frankly I'd rather do that for a few hours a month over reporting to an incompetent boss for 50 hours a week! There aren't even one million IBOs on earth because of rational displayed by your reader - non thinking, sheep-like, mediocre. But let's go with that figure, AND let's presume that all 1M IBOs on earth are more-than-active - they are actually building their businesses using CDs, voicemail and all your other misunderstandings... $55.9 billion devided by 1M IBOs = $559,000, each. But we already know that the vast majority are active but not building, lowering the average to $207/month. Seems to me that the ones that do build stand to be retiring pretty well.
What I mean by misunderstandings, and this... (continued on next post)
What I mean by misunderstandings, and this is where I bug out because you bore the bejesus out of me, is, suppose you started a tradition business, of any type, anywhere. You would be *required* to put money into it - office space perhaps, phone, business cards, inventory, employees, on and on. In my business the Day #1 Brand new IBO open a second bank account - instead of buying from Safeway where are they get is product for their money, they now buy some of those items from their own business, out of that second account, at wholesale. Then, as they receive their items and place them into their cupboards, they pay that second account (the second account) out of their first, established checking account, at retail. Their business, on Day #1, is profitable, is in the black, opens up the use of the Schedule C to the business owner which lowers their taxable income from the JOB and results in even more money for their family, and, now watch it... Those retail profits showing up in their second account fully pays for everything known as CORE - the audios, voicemail, etc. As the IBO increases their retail business, and their organization and Performance bonus, differential bonuses and so forth begin to deposit into their second account, the IBO can stop paying themselves the retail value of the products that they consume in their homes. Did you catch how that works son? All businesses need business support materials - we just happen to need the least (my graphic designer lady running a home-based design shop tells me that even that costs more on a monthly basis).
ReplyDeleteIf you won't ask Greg Duncan for his story then you don't need to be asking me, either.
Well I'm off - it's time to go have conversations with people that do want more out of their lives. Good luck with this blog, because buddy, you're certainly going to need this when you're 55 to pass the time away.
""Tens of millions or more of Amway IBOs?? Wow - anything to make your BS math add up, huh? There aren't even one million IBOs on the planet.""
ReplyDeleteWell, you made the comment that Amway has paid 55 billion since 1959. How many IBOs were paid that 55 billion since 1959? Perhaps tens of millions? Go ahead, re-visit this issue and let's do the math.
"" Apple Computer (for one) has chosen to partner up with the Amway Corporation, as has Macy's and all the rest. So sure, the entire legal team at Apple and the other household names purposely partnered with a "pyramid scheme". *yawn*""
Should I mention that these partner stores allow IBOs to sell their stuff but your partner stores don't sell any Amway stuff, nor do they do anything to help IBOs. Should I mention that WorldCom (MCI) and Enron were also Amway partners at one time?
""What I mean by misunderstandings, and this is where I bug out because you bore the bejesus out of me, is, suppose you started a tradition business, of any type, anywhere. You would be *required* to put money into it - office space perhaps, phone, business cards, inventory, employees, on and on.""
But Amway is promoted at low or no overhead. IBOs are supposed to be able to profit quickly but so few make even a cent of ne profit. And that's because the products are not priced to compete with retailers. Yeah, WalMart might not have LOC, but hey have cleaners that work just as well and you can be sure that WalMart's got them cheaper than Amway for the vast majority of products.
""If you won't ask Greg Duncan for his story then you don't need to be asking me, either.""
I don't need to ask Greg. Bankruptcies are public records so I got to see all of his financials including his tax returns. I wonder why had credit card debt and had not paid all of his federal taxes at the time he filed chapter 7?
""Well I'm off - it's time to go have conversations with people that do want more out of their lives. Good luck with this blog, because buddy, you're certainly going to need this when you're 55 to pass the time away.""
My blog must have hit a sore spot somewhere. I can tell. :-)
Joe, you can say that again. This Anonymous Amway-freak has really got a bug up his ass.
ReplyDeleteHe puts up two almost simultaneous posts at 3:22 and 3:24, filled with all the usual Amway bullshit about "buying from yourself" and how big companies are "partnering" with Amway, and how IBOs are "building their business."
Can he really be that stupid?
Yes, I guess he can. To "buy from yourself" is not merely financially useless -- it's patently INSANE. Big companies don't "partner" with a dipshit MLM racket like Amway -- they just use Amway to sell some of their stuff. And according to Amway's official figures, 99% of all IBOs fail to make money in the scheme -- so how are they "building their business"?
I found this article to be very informative, but not nearly as informative as the comments. LOL. Over my life I have been "introduced' to Amway several time. I attended a few of the meeting, and I can not tell you the amount of people that I have met that have either tried to sell me products or get me to buy in to the whole thing. In the 18 years that I have been aware of the company and the roughly 50 people that I have met that were involved. LITERALLY EVERY SINGLE ONE still HAS TO work a full time job. None of them made substantial amounts of money.
ReplyDeleteJust so we are clear, finance is my career. I happen to be an AVP for one of the 15 largest banks in the U.S . In the opportunities that I have had to review the financials, it has been readily apparent that it pays less than a minimum wage job! By the time you pay for the books, the tapes the open meetings and seminars as well as the amount that you have to personally spend on the products you are looking at a monthly cost of about $500.00. You must deduct that from your gross profit. You also need to divide the net profit by the total amount of time that you spent for that given month. Don't forget to count travel time and the phone calls, each business opening, every time you try to introduce a new prospect to the "business".
What I have found is that people make less than minimum wage. If you were to 50 hours a week and made 15 an hour, you're gross would be $825/weekly. Subtract 25% as a general rule and you would Net $618/weekly.. However you would have already paid taxes and would have insurance. As a 1099 employee or IBO you would have neither and would still need to pay those...
I saw someone mention the Double Eagle Rubies that make $140,000 or more a year. That's great and a good amount of money. Just a few things, that would appear to be the highest level which would make it the top .002% of the company (look at that again) .002%.... How long did it take for them to get to that level? Also as is the case above, they still need to deduct all of their expenses and pay taxes and insurance. It is not a NET PROFIT of $140,000. To be fair currently I do not gross $140,000/yearly (yet) and you could certainly live comfortably with that kind of income, but by no means will you be buying million dollar mansions and yachts on that income either. Better put if Amway were really able to deliver on the expectations that they set... Why isn't everyone a millionaire? Why doesn't everyone just saw Amway? How many people do you personally know that is able to just sit back and relax by the pool because they were successful with Amway???
Joecool did a wonderful job presenting facts and presenting realistic information. I suspect that most of the people leaving negative feedback are within their 1st year of the Amway business or are to brainwashed to think objectively.
John C.