A recent comment left on this blog stated that perhaps I had a bad upline, which may have led to my bad experience in Amway. While this may be true, I have to ask how anyone can possibly know who might be a good or a bad upline? As far as I know, all of the Lines Of Sponsorship such as WWDB or BWW or Network21 sell tools which consists of books, cds/audios, functions, meetings and voicemail. They all earn profits from the sale of these materials, thus they all promote these materials. I have heard that many uplines make more from selling tools than they do from Amway.
It makes perfect sense that some upline would make more money on tools than from Amway because the tools have a larger profit margin than Amway products and because to promote these tools, the uplines must travel from city to city to run functions, thus taking time away from running their Amway businesses. And while they may say verbally that tools are an optional expense, many groups promote them as a defacto requirement. For example, I heard that tools were optional but so was success. Or that nobody ever succeeded without tools but I could be the first to try. My sponsor also told me that Greg Duncan was a multi millionaire and he thought that tools were vital but if I thought I knew better, I could try it on my own. What is a new IBO to think? It sure sounds like only a fool would try to build the business without tools.
What's also amusing in some ways, is to debate with Amway supporters or defenders who tell me that I simply had a bad upline, and then to find out that they have the same upline that I had! It amazes me because I was in WWDB and basically, the same leaders are on stage today. The same leaders who were on stage when I was an IBO. These leaders at one time told bold lies, such as nobody made a cent of profit on tools, or that WWDB was a non profit organization. For some reason, IBOs don't seem concerned that upline leaders told these lies. They also mistakenly believe that everything upline tells them now is the truth.
IBOs even deny things that are of public record such as Greg Duncan's chapter 7 bankruptcy proceedings, or Brad Wolgamott's divorce. It seems that uplines just revise history and downlines believe it and do not ask questions or hold upline leaders accountable for their actions. I believe that these leaders should be held accountable and to a higher standard because they have profited handsomely over the years from the sale of tools. But another concern is the utter lack of success from the proven system. Where are the new diamonds? I cannot even think of more than a handful of new WWDB (My former LOS) diamonds from the US since I left the business in 1998 or so. And it might be noted that some diamonds have left since my time in the business.
So I ask the question again. How would an IBO or a prospect know what a bad upline is? Most find out when they finally see the light or when they notice the losses mounting month after month. I hope this blog helps information seekers to see the light.
It's not so much a question of your up-line being "bad," as it is the simple fact that you and your up-line have divergent interests.
ReplyDeleteYour up-line basically wants only these basic things from you: fees, function money, payment for CDs and tapes and books, and a range of other little financial outlays that you are expected to make for being in Amway. Yes, he also wants you to buy products for yourself, and maybe sell some products to outsiders.
Your interest is to create your own down-line, so that you to can be an exploitative up-line who gets those fees and expenditures.
It might sound as if these interests supported each other, but in fact they don't. You are always in a kind of low-level competition with your up-line. He'd rather have another leg directly under him, than to have you get a new IBO under you.
It's similar to those work situations where there are two tiers of employees: the full-time ones, and the part-time ones, with different responsibilities, pay levels, and benefits. They CAN'T be represented by the same union, because their interests are in conflict.
In a typical MLM racket like Amway, the advantages and the real money are always going to go to the Diamonds and the Big Pins, and not to the little IBO in some one-horse town trying to recruit his neighbors and relatives.
@Anonomous (Oct 14).
ReplyDeleteOn the nail there. Divergent interests are not mitigated by an individual being good. We don't let a good judge preside in a case where his interests are compromised. Not even if he is a proven good honest judge. We take a car's salesman's assessment of his product vs the competition with a grain of salt. Even if he is a good guy. Appreciating interests is what the free market is built upon. That's why we ask whether a person's role makes him suitable for the simply trusting the advice we get from him. Even if he is good and nice.
And I do think that there is more than the low level competition, more conflict of interests than just fishing from the same pond. The system itself is flawed in that it does not align interests. Having a mentor that gets a cut from the sales of your business, but who does not feel the expenses and effort to make those sales, cannot possibly be expected to give unbiased advice in the interests of your business. A completely uninvolved mentor yes, a completely vested mentor (in sales and expenses) yes. But having a mentor involved in sales but not expenses, the Amway way, is looking for trouble. Having a mentor's mentor a few levels up, that actually benefits from expenses (like tools), is not asking for trouble, it is demanding trouble.
Of course they will be nice and supportive. Of course they will want to keep a downline business going as long as possible, even if it operates at a loss, even if it's clear that it is unlikely to change. It is not a good thing, it is a very bad thing. The loss making downline business is good for upline.
That is why the essence of all training, motivation, conferences, and upline advice is not equipping people to run their business better, for which a financial statement and cost benefit analysis approach to expenses, would be good places to to start. The essence of all these wisdoms and advice is to keep loss making businesses from reflecting on the state of their business. To keep loss making ventures in the game for as long as possible. In the nicest possible way. Upline is incentivised to do exactly that.
It's not a proven good system with bad apples. It's a system of which the design incentivises it's members, good or bad, to gravitate towards bad behaviour. Ironically this means I have a higher view of those drawn in by Amway, than Amway defenders have. Amway defenders explain the great likelihood of losses by laziness, lack of motivation etc, they explain bad upline experiences as being due to bad apples. I blame the system, not the people, for most of these.
@Anonomous (Oct 14).
ReplyDeleteOn the nail there. Divergent interests are not mitigated by an individual being good. We don't let a good judge preside in a case where his interests are compromised. Not even if he is a proven good honest judge. We take a car's salesman's assessment of his product vs the competition with a grain of salt. Even if he is a good guy. Appreciating interests is what the free market is built upon. That's why we ask whether a person's role makes him suitable for the simply trusting the advice we get from him. Even if he is good and nice.
And I do think that there is more than the low level competition, more conflict of interests than just fishing from the same pond. The system itself is flawed in that it does not align interests. Having a mentor that gets a cut from the sales of your business, but who does not feel the expenses and effort to make those sales, cannot possibly be expected to give unbiased advice in the interests of your business. A completely uninvolved mentor yes, a completely vested mentor (in sales and expenses) yes. But having a mentor involved in sales but not expenses, the Amway way, is looking for trouble. Having a mentor's mentor a few levels up, that actually benefits from expenses (like tools), is not asking for trouble, it is demanding trouble.
Of course they will be nice and supportive. Of course they will want to keep a downline business going as long as possible, even if it operates at a loss, even if it's clear that it is unlikely to change. It is not a good thing, it is a very bad thing. The loss making downline business is good for upline.
That is why the essence of all training, motivation, conferences, and upline advice is not equipping people to run their business better, for which a financial statement and cost benefit analysis approach to expenses, would be good places to to start. The essence of all these wisdoms and advice is to keep loss making businesses from reflecting on the state of their business. To keep loss making ventures in the game for as long as possible. In the nicest possible way. Upline is incentivised to do exactly that.
It's not a proven good system with bad apples. It's a system of which the design incentivises it's members, good or bad, to gravitate towards bad behaviour. Ironically this means I have a higher view of those drawn in by Amway, than Amway defenders have. Amway defenders explain the great likelihood of losses by laziness, lack of motivation etc, they explain bad upline experiences as being due to bad apples. I blame the system, not the people, for most of these.
Absolutely right, kwaaikat. Your analysis is much deeper and more accurate than mine was.
ReplyDeleteYour point about Amway up-line's basic interest ("to keep loss-making businesses from reflecting on the state of their business") is worth its weight in gold. It cuts right to the heart of the entire Amway racket.
And yes... your mentor may be "nice and supportive." But it's only because your losses are his gain. As long as you pay all your required fees and maintain your PV level, up-line really has no interest in whether you are making any kind of profit. This is why Amway is so crucially dependent on hype and excitement and manufactured enthusiasm. Those idiotic "functions" like Family Reunion and Free Enterprise Day do serve a purpose -- they keep low-level IBOs in a state of unthinking frenzy, so that they will stay in the business.
You say Amway "incentivizes bad behavior." That is a precious nugget of wisdom! It should be spread to every anti-Amway and anti-MLM website in the English-speaking world.
Hi Joecool!
ReplyDeleteAgree 100% with this post.
I'm very thankful for all your work. In fact, you've inspired me to start my own blog regarding Amway/WWDB. Feel free to check it out:
https://grannyolove.blogspot.com/2018/10/amwaywwdb-part-3-ethics.html
https://grannyolove.blogspot.com/2018/10/amwaywwdb-part-4-economics.html
Keep the content coming!
Cheers,
Granny
Thanks for your comment. I'll check it out right now.
ReplyDelete