Let me start out by saying that Amway is a very likely a perfectly legal company, and therefore I am not saying or implying that Amway is illegal. But I believe however, that the way Amway businesses are run, are like pyramids. In most groups, you will have the lowest level IBOs efforts and tool purchases being responsible for the upline bonuses and tools income. Many many IBOs are fooled into thinking that the ability to surpass your upline or that you don't get paid to recruit downline makes this a good deal. This doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of IBOs lose money. The lottery is legal in most states but I'd say it's not a good investment for your money.
Unless you have a very very rare group where actual product sales to non IBOs are sufficient to cover the costs of running your business, functions and all, then it is true that the lower level IBO's jobs are likely the source of income for the uplines. How many groups are like that? None that I have ever seen or know of. In fact, how often do IBOs even sell enough products to cover their expenses for even one month out of the year? The groups that teach "buy from yourself" end up doing the most financial damage to their groups because the downline's expenses are then covered exclusively from the downlines jobs, bank accounts, or drive the downline into debt.
I've seen and discussed group structures in forums many times and I can only conclude that tool sales wipe out what little profits/bonuses some of the downlines might receive. Only when an IBO is able to sponsor enough downline to absorb the losses for them will they finally break even or make a little profit. I would guess that the 4000 PV level or platinum is where a dedicated CORE IBO would just about break even and possibly start to make a real profit. But if you are hard core dedicated, you can still lose money at these levels. We also know that most platinum groups have 100 or more IBOs in order to generate 7500 PV. Thus we can also conclude that less than 1% of IBOs make a net profit. The only way IBOs can earn a net profit at a lower level is to avoid purchasing tools and to avoid paying for functions. Those who get involved in a system such as WWDB or N21 almost guarantee that they will have a net loss because of the expenses associated with these systems.
Sure, my job may have a pyramid structure with the CEO making the most money. But the difference is that in a company, even the lowest paid employee still receives a paycheck and has money at the end of the month. The same claim cannot be made by IBOs. For these reasons, I believe Amway to be a legal pyramid, where money flows from downline to the upline. IBOs and information seekers are free to participate, but I challenge them to sit down and really analyze their ability to make a net profit. In most cases, the analysis won't be favorable. If you are in the US in particular, you may have great difficulty in even being able to discuss "Amway" without getting strange looks your way from others. Do you have to shy away from using the name Amway? Do you have to use the curiosity approach? If you do, ask yourself why. The answer is obvious.
When I was in Amway/ LTD (leadership Team Development) last year (2018) the uplines and diamonds would actively try to debunk the pyramid scheme claims. But for me it was obvious after the first month I was in that it was a product based pyramid scheme. At all the info sessions/ teaching and training I went to, the uplines would only spend less than 5 mins talking about the products. The rest was about bringing more people into the scheme. Amway's overpriced products are just the legal loophole they use to not be an illegal pyramid in my book.
ReplyDeleteThe Amway business is like any other business in that you can succeed or you can fail, and it all depends on the effort you put into it. LTD focuses on ALL aspects of entrepreneurship, not just product sales, which explains why they spent only a portion of the time on products. It sounds like your business was a failure, which means you're not qualified to talk about how the successful entrepreneurs should or shouldn't run their businesses.
DeleteThat's a red flag. Little focus on actually selling products and more focus on recruiting and self consumption are signs of a product pyramid. I really wish the FTC would have clear cut rules on what constitutes an illegal pyramid but they have grey areas that allow these scams to keep operating.
ReplyDeleteAmway's "Leadership Team Development" (LTD) is one of the most corrupt of the LOS subsystems. Its only focus is on the recruitment of new IBOs, and on personal consumption of products. The idea of actually selling Amway products to non-members is laughed at as a "waste of time."
ReplyDeleteLTD paints itself as an energetic and vibrant organization, but in fact it is a pure pyramid-scheme racket, run by cynical thieves.
Yes, LTD was the LOS system I was in last year. My upline Diamond was Brian Mcgrath and the dude under him was Manny Winston. They are some of the most arrogant, self absorbed liars I ever seen. The entire organization is one big creepy cult where they mock people who quit or have dreams other than scamming people in a pyramid scheme. The World Wide Group and LTD have caused hundreds, if not thousands of people to lose time, money, friendships, marriages, and so much more. They are truly evil people.
ReplyDeleteThat statement you make is baseless.... America is a country where is not illegal to fail...Look at many business success stories Have you ever interviewed owners asking them How many times they have failed..
DeleteThank you for this. I'm in 2 years but I'll never quit, because it's the only thing I've found that will give me the lifestyle I want, and I will succeed. I'm guessing most of the people that have negative things to say are people who didn't give it their all, and quit too soon
DeleteLTD Amway Brian and Caryn McGrath are crooks! So is Manny Winston and Candance Winston.
ReplyDeleteRandall and Brianna Ward were my immediate uplines and they stole 3 years of my life. I just got out.
Also Jonathan Benjamin is another crook in the making. They praise Alexis Rumber and all the other pretty "tokens" to make it seem like you can make it too. It's just a lie...
There isn't one Amway LOS subsystem that isn't corrupt to the core. That's why the Amway Corporation in Ada, Michigan tries as best as it can to disassociate itself from their activities. The lying and the thievery that go on in the subsystems are out of control, and there is absolutely no oversight or regulation of what they do and what they claim.
ReplyDeleteIn virtual fact, the subsystems are independent organizations that can thumb their nose at anything Amway says. Do you think anyone in Ada, Michigan could tell Bill Britt or Dexter Yager what to do? The few times that Amway tried to rein in these megalomaniacs, Amway was told in no uncertain terms to fuck off and "stick to making the products."
At all the big functions, it is stated that the Amway Corporation has no connection whatsoever with the gathering, or with what is being done or said there. This is also why any complaints that an IBO has about his situation are completely ignored by Amway in Ada. They invariably tell the IBO to "consult with his up-line." This means that Amway is washing its hands of anything that happens in the LOS subsystems -- Amway doesn't want to handle any actual complaints, since they can't enforce anything on an LOS, and they don't want to rock the boat if money is coming in regularly.
All those creeps mentioned above -- the McGraths, the Winstons, and the Wards -- are just slick con-men who live by bleeding money from unsuspecting down-lines. That's the entire purpose of an Amway LOS.
Hey Anonymous from July 5 2019 at 12:52pm,
ReplyDeleteI was also in LTD with the Mcgraths and the Winston's being the major diamond and emeralds. Jonathan Benjamin was my uplines, upline if that makes sense in this weird pyramid that is Amway/ LTD. Jonathan or JB as he likes to be called profited from me and many others at the bottom of the pyramid in LTD. They worship Manny Winston because he is young and African American who slipped through the cracks and made large amounts of money in this scheme. So he is their go to golden boy to trick downline into thinking this scheme works along side LTD.
Like I mentioned before here, Joecool's blog really opened my eyes and helped me leave to pursue my own business goals instead of making some con artist diamond richer. Also, many in LTD claim to be Christian, but they worship Brian Mcgrath and Manny Winston as if they are Jesus Christ himself. It is super creepy. I got out after four months and I haven't been happier. This mental abuse, brainwashing, out right lies, arrogance, and cult like behavior was just too much for me.
I would love to chat with you more Anonymous as LTD and Brian Mcgrath and company are rampant here in Virginia. I really hope more people can raise awareness about this before more people lose time, money, and relationships. Shoot me an email at ripproductionsva at gmail.com if you ever see this message.
Candance Winston was never a Chemist for Altria. She was a contractor in the building selling lab supplies. She never worked directly for Altria or as a chemist. I can only imagine that she was told that lying about where she worked before Amway would help boost her image during speeches.
ReplyDeletehello?
ReplyDeleteIs this another blog post where former IBOs who quit the Amway business comment anonymously about how they feel that LTD or Amway are both scams?
ReplyDeleteThe only crook in which I understand is yourself. You can only give up on yourself. No one else is to blame but yourself. If you didn't get that concept while you were still registered in business, then that is your own fault.
Your success is 100 percent determined by YOU and you only, not your upline, not Amway, and not LTD. They are meant to help you, but you have to learn how to help yourself first. Talking about negativity only leads to more negativity.
To Unknown at 9:18 AM --
ReplyDeleteYeah, sure. Everybody who never made money in Amway is totally at fault. Not a stupid system where one is a commissioned salesman pretending to be an "Independent Business Owner," or where you have to buy endless books and cd's and attend worthless functions, or where you have to use an obsolete voicemail system, or where you have to browbeat your friends, neighbors, and relatives into buying products that they don't want.
By the way -- how much money have you personally lost in the Amway racket so far? And if you think Amway is so great, why are you here at an Anti-Amway blog?
Here to combat your lies to about a well made product sold by people who don’t quit on their dreams. I love the value of what an Amway IBO brings me as an already successful entrepreneur, investor, and God driven, man of Christ. Only 4 months new and ive seen so much growth in myself and added training of a mindset that brings impact and income with a great product at very reasonable prices. (e.i. Laundry detergent average prices are six tenths of a penny per load to $1 per load for other name brand detergents. Amway is the best detergent I’ve used yet and averages $0.35 per load.)If you don’t try you won’t stand a chance at winning. Failure is key to success! Good day and God Bless!
DeleteThis is crazy to me how these "SUPER SUCCESSFUL" ScamWay folks who should be out "building their business" and "setting the captive free" (let's all laugh out of pure comedy to this phrase) have time to go spew insults out to people who realized that this was all an elaborate scheme to fund the "lifestyles" of the ones at the top.
ReplyDeleteI always thought Candice Winston was lying about being a chemist at Altria as well. Randall Ward doesn't even work for McKesson anymore (got fired) and Jonathan Benjamin got fired for stealing food out of the building's cafeteria. Why steal food when you're making $50,000 - $60,000 a year outside of your "J-O-B"?
Just saying....
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteHey, yall can keep your broke menatilties and JOBS and watch more diamond, emeralds, etc.. form through this life changing buisness. If you really look at it from a bigger picture. All jobs are legal pyramids because if the new employee and others like him dont do any work, the CEO doesnt gain profit
ReplyDeleteFrank was Brian’s downline leg and in before Manny Winston.
ReplyDeleteFrank BESOSA has been in Amway longer than Manny....yet somehow he is he downline?
JB then gets to be a platinum and is somehow Manny’s leg even through Frank is above him? What happened to Frank?
Manny bought a watch in cash on vacation (a Breitling) yet pays in smalls bills...to avoid taxes? Is the the money he got from the buying “tickets” at the door?
Hello??
ReplyDeleteTo Anonymous at December 23, 8:47 AM --
ReplyDeleteCome back and tell us in a couple of years, after you have been financially screwed by Amway, what a great opportunity it is. That is, if you still own a house and a computer after that.
Yall got that?
Brian Mcgrath, Manny Winston, Jonathan Benjamin, Randall Ward, Aaron Hodnett, Jomin Mujar, Frank Besosa, are all sketchy people and they clearly don't care about people or their downlines like they claim they do. All they want from people is unquestionable loyalty to them and the Amway and Leadership Team Development "system". They use God, Christ, and fake christianity to brainwash naive people in their downlines into believing this obvious cult/ pyramid scheme is something God wants them to do. Buy ditto (overpriced Amway products) every month, buy the books, LTD messaging app subscription and audios, and buy tickets to conferences and meetings. All this is done so the money flows up to them at the top and they can brag about how they live these amazing "lifestyles" and these legendary business owners (which they are not, everyone in Amway is just a glorified costumer).
ReplyDeleteAmway's business model is a pyramid scheme, and LTD is a full blown cult that follows the BITE model of a cult to the letter. It's sad, the scumbags mentioned are still allowed to operate this scheme that has damaged so many lives (marriages, relationships, and hundreds or even thousands of dollars lost). If you are in LTD and Amway and in the state of Virginia and get approached to be on the people mentioned "team" please reconsider and pursue your own business or any other option to better your life. They are NOT good people and they don't care about you at all. They will forget you exist if you decline or leave their scheme. That's not real friendship and Jesus wouldn't abandon people he couldn't make money from like they do.
Leadership Team Development (LTD) is one of the more vicious and corrupt Amway subsystems. It is notorious for its pressure tactics, its fraudulence, and its outright lying.
ReplyDeleteAnyone wanting to see some direct testimony about LTD and its cult-like viciousness should go to the following website:
complaintsboard.com/leadership-team-development-scam-and-cheating-c190466
There are several persons there who will give you real horror stories about the racket.
IT’S ALL FAKE......Let me explain.
ReplyDeleteManny Winston didn’t have enough people in his group to go platinum and Brian McGrath needed his 6th leg.. So what did he do? They scammed the system and put Frank Besosa under manny and his people along with whomever they could find to get him over his points needed to become platinum.
What’s next? Well, JB then qualifies for platinum. JB is under Frank. Frank did not qualify for platinum since he doesn’t have enough legs. They then make JB a direct leg for Manny to give him a platinum let and kick Frank’s bum to the curb.
Jomin, same thing, he is under JB...and the game continues. Manny does not have a TRUE 6 legs and Brian Mcgrath doesn’t have a true 6th leg in manny. Scams across the board. People should really start asking questions.
IDK how true this is about putting Frank under Manny. But, I do know Platinum has NOTHING to with how many legs you have, referring to what you stated about Frank! Going Platinum simply means your organization over 7500pv for 6 months out the year!
ReplyDeleteIDK how true this is about putting Frank under Manny. But, I do know Platinum has NOTHING to with how many legs you have, referring to what you stated about Frank! Going Platinum simply means your organization over 7500pv for 6 months out the year!
ReplyDeleteAnonymous from January 2nd us folks the state of Virginia need you to make a youtube video or something. Manny Winston and the other notable cult leaders and scammers in the amway/ltd scheme need to be exposed. So many people have been damaged by their misdeeds all in the name of the mighty dollar. Seriously, shoot me an email there are many others forming support groups and such in VA and else where. But any info on these life runners like Manny Winston and Brian Mcgrath send and email to silentninja87 Gmail.com
ReplyDeleteDo you have info on the support groups?I am in Virginia and was a part of LTD, my former upline keeeps contacting me to get back in.
ReplyDeleteIt's just hard to believe that fairly smart and some professional people like doctors can fall
ReplyDeletefor this scam. I know that they are searching for credibility by endorsements or what they call "edification".
Keep putting money in, month after month.
ReplyDeleteWell here in Virginia the Leadership Team Development (LTD) groups is starting to take on more character traits of the World Wide Group by renaming their "team meetings" as family reunions. Like someone else here mentioned, some of the major uplines have shady things about them like telling people they are "retired" but still work jobs like the "average people" they mock. Also, a few of the uplines like Jonathan Benjamin (JB) and Randall Ward have said to have been fired from their jobs for things like stealing food despite claims of making bank in Amway. Allegedly, one major upline who is worshipped in LTD Virginia chapter (hint he is their go to success story, young and African American) had an affair with a downline and he is married. The corruption in this chapter of LTD is crazy and it's insane people are still under these obvious con artists believing a pipeline dream of being a millionaire and walking the "beaches of the world" from selling XS energy drinks LOL.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous 3/6/20 Who did he cheat with? That doesn't sound like the person I knew. As far as the other people they were respectful to me the entire time i was in business, i never saw any red flags with them as individuals.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous 3/6/20 Who did he cheat with? That doesn't sound like the person I knew. As far as the other people they were respectful to me the entire time i was in business, i never saw any red flags with them as individuals.
ReplyDeleteTo Anonymous at June 30 --
ReplyDeleteSo how come you're not in the business now? If everybody was nice and respectful and there were no red flags, why did you leave?
A direct answer, please. No Amway propaganda bullshit.
To Anonymous on June 30th. I think it was just a rumor as I heard about that certain upline in the Richmond, VA chapter as well. No solid evidence was found about that. However, another upline for the Virginia area of LTD was arrested at the start of this year 2020 (January) for being a sexual predator. The guy is in his mid 20's and was a platinum ( or close to it) in LTD and got caught sending dirty pics to what he thought was a 14 year old girl. It was actually a cop. I been gone from the Awway/ LTD group since 2018 but he was one of my sponsors BFF's ( he seemed odd even back then). I heard many of the uplines have tried to erase him from the groups history. But people don't forget...
ReplyDeleteI was shocked and sadly found it humorous when I saw the story on the local news back in January ( the article is still online). My sponsor who was VERY close to this guy shamed me for not being as "successful" him and others in this scam/cult/ pyramid. She even had the nerve to question my association with REAL friends (who are successful in other areas) and my association with them. They were the ones who cared enough about me to convince me to leave the Amway pyramid and pursue my own career and dreams.
Funny that my sponsors BFF turned out to be a predator and she is still dangling at the bottom of the Amway/ LTD pyramid while I am living my best life and growth my own business and career in an area I am actually passionate about.
You guys make me laugh. Why are you so bitter? How are they the liars? Because YOU didn't put in the work to be successful? Because you thought you can make a successful side income that could POSSIBLY, not guaranteed , possibly replace your full time without grinding? It's a lot of hard work. You can't treat it like a hobby and just associate, read the books, listen to the audios, go to conferences and expect success. If you never showed the plan 3-5 times a week for at least at least half a year, educated yourself about the quality of the products and their benefits to people (this isn't about you making a profit but how you can really help people in skincare/nutrition etc.) , fixed your mindset, developed relationships with those in your downline then you can't talk. I think it speaks more about your heart because if thats what you think how those who have gone before are like then that tells me that anyone YOU brought in you were just trying to use them for you own gain and never had any intention of helping them achieve their goals. It sounds to me like none of you have actually done the work and put in the effort to build a team with the right intentions. If so you realize there's some people that no matter what they don't want to be helped because it takes them out of their comfort zone and they're safe there. So if that's you thats fine but go pursue your career goals and be happy with yourself instead of spreading negativity. Remember you decided to do it for a reason in the first place. You wanted more, you wanted opportunity. Don't hate the people that gave you that just because you couldn't stick with it.
ReplyDeleteIt takes smarts and ambition to find success, not being ambitious and naive, agreed? I go to the richmond RVA info session. There are multiple IBOs on the May team that are autistic. Actually autistic, what type of person looks at someone who is incapable of making proper business decisions as a potential business partner that they can grow with? I’ll tell you, someone who wants to use them and their monthly ditto for their own gain.
DeleteYou guys make me laugh. Why are you so bitter? How are they the liars? Because YOU didn't put in the work to be successful? Because you thought you can make a successful side income that could POSSIBLY, not guaranteed , possibly replace your full time without grinding? It's a lot of hard work. You can't treat it like a hobby and just associate, read the books, listen to the audios, go to conferences and expect success. If you never showed the plan 3-5 times a week for at least at least half a year, educated yourself about the quality of the products and their benefits to people (this isn't about you making a profit but how you can really help people in skincare/nutrition etc.) , fixed your mindset, developed relationships with those in your downline then you can't talk. I think it speaks more about your heart because if thats what you think how those who have gone before are like then that tells me that anyone YOU brought in you were just trying to use them for you own gain and never had any intention of helping them achieve their goals. It sounds to me like none of you have actually done the work and put in the effort to build a team with the right intentions. If so you realize there's some people that no matter what they don't want to be helped because it takes them out of their comfort zone and they're safe there. So if that's you thats fine but go pursue your career goals and be happy with yourself instead of spreading negativity. Remember you decided to do it for a reason in the first place. You wanted more, you wanted opportunity. Don't hate the people that gave you that just because you couldn't stick with it.
ReplyDeleteYou guys make me laugh. Why are you so bitter? How are they the liars? Because YOU didn't put in the work to be successful? Because you thought you can make a successful side income that could POSSIBLY, not guaranteed , possibly replace your full time without grinding? It's a lot of hard work. You can't treat it like a hobby and just associate, read the books, listen to the audios, go to conferences and expect success. If you never showed the plan 3-5 times a week for at least at least half a year, educated yourself about the quality of the products and their benefits to people (this isn't about you making a profit but how you can really help people in skincare/nutrition etc.) , fixed your mindset, developed relationships with those in your downline then you can't talk. I think it speaks more about your heart because if thats what you think how those who have gone before are like then that tells me that anyone YOU brought in you were just trying to use them for you own gain and never had any intention of helping them achieve their goals. It sounds to me like none of you have actually done the work and put in the effort to build a team with the right intentions. If so you realize there's some people that no matter what they don't want to be helped because it takes them out of their comfort zone and they're safe there. So if that's you thats fine but go pursue your career goals and be happy with yourself instead of spreading negativity. Remember you decided to do it for a reason in the first place. You wanted more, you wanted opportunity. Don't hate the people that gave you that just because you couldn't stick with it.
ReplyDeleteYou guys make me laugh. Why are you so bitter? How are they the liars? Because YOU didn't put in the work to be successful? Because you thought you can make a successful side income that could POSSIBLY, not guaranteed , possibly replace your full time without grinding? It's a lot of hard work. You can't treat it like a hobby and just associate, read the books, listen to the audios, go to conferences and expect success. If you never showed the plan 3-5 times a week for at least at least half a year, educated yourself about the quality of the products and their benefits to people (this isn't about you making a profit but how you can really help people in skincare/nutrition etc.) , fixed your mindset, developed relationships with those in your downline then you can't talk. I think it speaks more about your heart because if thats what you think how those who have gone before are like then that tells me that anyone YOU brought in you were just trying to use them for you own gain and never had any intention of helping them achieve their goals. It sounds to me like none of you have actually done the work and put in the effort to build a team with the right intentions. If so you realize there's some people that no matter what they don't want to be helped because it takes them out of their comfort zone and they're safe there. So if that's you thats fine but go pursue your career goals and be happy with yourself instead of spreading negativity. Remember you decided to do it for a reason in the first place. You wanted more, you wanted opportunity. Don't hate the people that gave you that just because you couldn't stick with it.
ReplyDeleteTo Anonymous at August 10 who posted the same stupid message four times:
ReplyDeleteAre you an asshole?
If Amway and LTD are so damned good, why are you here at an anti-Amway blog? What brings you here? Why aren't you out there working hard to recruit new IBOs into your down-line?
You prove your basic stupidity by saying that "this isn't about you making a profit but how you can really help people." That is absolute horse shit. ANY BUSINESS THAT IS REAL IS ABOUT MAKING A PROFIT.
But how about being honest with all of us. Are you involved in Amway-LTD now, or are you out of it? How much money have you made (or lost) in the racket? If you left the scheme, tell us why.
Don't give us any more propaganda about "leadership" or "helping people attain their goals." And don't post your reply four times -- it only shows that you're childish.
It looks like the shithead isn't going to answer.
ReplyDeleteI guess he lacks a pair of balls.
Just ran into Aaron Hodnet yesterday. We work at the same place in Virginia and it's funny seeming him pull the "nice guy" act on his just over broke JOB but turn around and talk crap about co workers and others not in the Amway/LTD racket at info sessions, team meetings, night owls and such. He did even recognize me since I been out of the scheme for two years now. Never forget hearing this dude manipulate people to spend money on going to a conference and telling them to skip family events or friends weddings if it feel on the same date as an LTD conference SMH.
ReplyDeleteWhat gets me is that if he is a platinum in LTD and making so much money, why is he still working an JOB like us "average" people???!!!! It makes no sense. If you have any critical thinking skills, human decency or morals you see how much of a scam, cult, pyramid scheme this all is!
The guy isn't a "Platinum" at all. That is sheer bullshit. He's "faking it till he makes it."
ReplyDeleteIt really is a shame that so many nice people get sucked into this and then go completely"blind" as to the reality of this.
ReplyDeleteIt's what grifters call "the perfect con." In a perfect con, you lose your money but you go on believing that what happened was OK, that there was no criminality involved, or that it was somehow your fault.
ReplyDeleteMany people who have lost their shirts in Amway still go around saying that it's a brilliant business plan. What assholes!
Anonymous Said....Anonymous Said....Anonymous Said.... If you feel like you are helping people by giving energy to this blog why don't you show yourself. You were a coward and selfish in business as you are out. And what exactly are you doing now to better yourself now? This is just sad you are bitter. My previous jobs recruited more than I have ever seen in Amway or LTD. I'm also talking about my previous jobs at the post office, gov. contractor and Chick-fil-a that offered me bonuses just like Amway does. the difference is most people don't change their life, mindset or habits after leaving a job and going into the next one unless the new job makes you because you have a different work schedule or etc. I also have not seen so many people get saved and turn their life over towards positivity or to Christ too. The mission of the system is to yes make you a profit because it is a business, but they do a whole lot more than they really have to. If you didn't see that than the other person is right you didn't do the things that you were suppose to do in order to be successful and that's not just financial in growing in your business, that's personally, mindset and personal finances. I can see your point if you were buying refrigerators, knives, water filtration units or whatever, but the products that you bought were products you were going to buy or needed to buy anyway. Toothpaste, mouth wash, face wash, lotion, soap, soda/carbonated drinks with or without caffeine, vitamins, makeup, and the list goes on. They aren't sucking you into nothing because you also undergo a multilevel interview process where they show you everything too. So, nothing what you are saying is valid if it didn't work for you it didn't work for you and if that was the case its probably because you were scared of the responsibility of helping others and scared for it to actually work for yourself. You cant expect things you have never had without doing things you have never done before, which includes working hard in a certain amount of areas for a specific time. You didn't want to do that and now your somebody's "Anonymous Said...." on some blog. SMH you cant win by putting other people down in something you failed at.
ReplyDeleteDaryl Roberts, you’ve just parroted the upline teaching. That Amway just replaces what you would have bought elsewhere which is BS. Amway products can only be purchased through Amway and they are generic in nature but premium in price which is why Amway IBOS cannot compete. And ultimately why so many fail. The only question is how deep they get bro tools and functions before they quit because they determines how bad their businesses losses are likely to be. It’s sad that people actually think a business where so few make a net profit is a viable option.
ReplyDeleteTo Daryl Roberts:
ReplyDeleteIf you're so hot for Amway and those lying bastards in LTD, why have you come here to an anti-Amway website? Why aren't you out there recruiting more new IBOs?
I'll tell you why you're here -- you have a deep-down suspicion that the entire Amway racket is a fraud, and you are trying to find out more about it, without going to your up-line and asking him tough questions.
Can anyone confirm that Manny Winston in the Richmond, Virginia Leadership Team Development group of Amway went diamond back in 2020? If he did, his downline must be bleeding money bad. It sucks scumbags like him are still in this obvious pyramid preying on people who are most likely struggling due to the pandemic and stuff. Some stupid Ambot at my job consistently sings Manny's praises and talks about how he (manny) recently bought a mansion from some local NFL player or something. It all sounds like BS to me, but was curious. I know Manny and other folks like to sell that lifestyle so even if he did reach diamond, his life aint what it seem. When i was in scamway in 2018, Manny was a huge reason why I was disgusted by it all and eventually quit. His method of viewing people as nothing more than dollar signs was disgusting.
ReplyDeleteManny Winston will say anything to make himself look good. If he claims to be an Amway Diamond, maybe it's true. In any case, Diamonds frequently fall out of qualification after reaching the goal.
ReplyDeleteThose that can't stand LTD in Richmond should really come check out my old group in URA. But I guess they are all one in the same at the end of the day. The meetings and functions are comical. I left them in 2018 as well. It was the best decision I ever made.
ReplyDeleteI think what I miss the least is our Thursday night meetings where many of us got there early and had to act fake nice while Upline talked about bilking us out of the next $93 conference or the next $15 dollar seminar or the next $5 weekly meeting or the next $6 fleet or the next $5 "conference prep" meeting on Saturday nights which I won't get back, or "Summer Games" which is where they take you out in 100 degree temperatures and make you mentally and emotionally exhausted on a hot Saturday in August, or Dodgeball AFTER a conference weekend where they have guys make IBOs do exercises to get them really tired only for Upline to give more speeches at the end of the night.
All of this on top of having to do "300 by the 5th"...(wait, it's 300 by the 1st because your Ditto needs to process on the 1st to show your Upline that you're all in and blah blah blah). Oh, that's 300 points by the way, not dollars. That was for years called the "URA Standard" but I guess the AMO got in trouble and it's now the "URA Recommendation".
The hits just keep on coming. I hope someone stumbles across this and sees how much of a scam all of this is. And I didn't really get into all of the time that you will never get back.
Also, don't sell your car or move in order to go "all in" or be closer to the team. It's not worth it.
I’m currently being recruited and was just told and manny and Candice. This sounds like self employment not owing a business. If you always working how can it be considered passive income.
ReplyDeleteAmway IBOs are basically commission only sales people with no fringe benefits.
ReplyDeleteI'm currently being recruited by LDT W/Amway. Thought I met a cool friend on Bumble but I swear they just wanted to talk to me to introduce me to the wonderful "business opportunity" that will help me build passive income over the next 2-5 years. Reading this blog, and remembering that this person recruiting me is from... you guessed it, RICHMOND VA, I'm definitely gonna pull out before I get dragged in. They showed me their Amway account with their downlines (quite a few!), and they only had 1700PV, and had been working on this for 2.5 years already- and I can tell they put in minimum 10 HOURS a week (with a 50 hr full time job too). I'm 23, going to medical school so this all sounded interesting. I've heard and seen Manny and Candace speak virtually, and I was like oh wow, something to aspire too haha. I'm not trying to join a cult or create a business that ends up being unattainable. I don't even have money to spend $300 on my own products a month lol. Let me go get my Dr. Title, and keep investing in stocks. Good Luck out there yall, there's gotta be a better way to be successful in 2021. Blessings.
ReplyDeleteAs a doctor myself, I would tell you to continue pursuing med school. This is definitely not the way to invest your money.
ReplyDelete@Anonymous April 18, 2021 at 6:04 PM
ReplyDeleteIf it has been 10 hours per week for 2.5 years so far, if they had a job paying $10 per hour, that is already $13 000 in time, with which one could have used well to start a real business. That is only talking about hours wasted in 2.5 years, assuming zero expenses.
As a real business owner myself, I agree with the doctor who commented before me. My perspective is, from a business owner, this is not in any way to be confused with a real business.
If you say it, they will say something like:
"You mean Amway, who has been in business since 1959, who supports this and that charity, who sponsors this and that. You mean they are not a real business?"
That is not actually what you'd mean. Of course what is on offer is not a share in the Amway corporation, but becoming a dedicated consumer of their products, with commissions payable on the purchases of consumers referred by you. THAT business, is not a real business. The fact that they confuse that business's profitability with Amway's business, should already raise red flags. Tobacco companies have been in business longer than Amway, it is not to say what they sell is wholesome.
I am not advising going back and give reasons, and debate. My advice is don't spend ANY more time there. The bunch can be very persuasive. They have answers for everything (which only if you think about it later, turns out to be nonsensical).
They will say no risk money back, only try it part time and go full in when it starts working, whatever. Don't fall for that. They will create an emotional dependency. Don't think it is harmless. They will be nice and supportive, remember they are professionals at being nice and appearing supportive.
But the end is almost always the same. It destroys friendships, it destroys studies and the futures that they lead to, it destroys time, it destroys finances. They best time for you to get out is yesterday or whenever they approached you. The second best time is now.
Amway has been an incredible platform and offers quality products that are sold at a very reasonable price.
DeleteFor example: laundry detergent ranges from cheap brands to fancy brands 6/10ths of a $0.01 to $1 per load. The quality Amway detergent has cleaned my clothes better than anything at just $0.35 per load. Not bad.
Nutrilite is an incredible brand which goes way back prior to Amway.
Oh and the audios and reading list are invaluable if you utilize them to grow yourself.
Here’s the thing, this blog is for someone who got butthurt and gave up.
JoeNOTsoCool do you have any other decade grudges against other platforms you started and quit?
The great part is those who understand believe in what Network Marketing the success it can bring are doing it. There are stories upon stories of success decades ago and now of people who surpassed the status quo and didn’t succumbed to the negative mindset.
Amway is the platform with fantastic products that the Team of leaders which I am Involved are some of the most positive and encouraging people I’ve met. Success is a mindset and this blog which I’ve read many of the comments is a tool which promotes a quitter mindset.
Pyramids are fantastic shapes that can metaphorically describe so many things in life.
Good day and God bless!
I am pretty sure the folks in Richmond, VA know who I am LOL. Ever since I left that cult/ pyramid scheme that is LTD/Amway in 2018 I been sure to spread the word about their lies, schemes, and manipulation. Don't want anyone to lose time, money, jobs, and relationships like I did, dealing with these con artists. While I have moved on and continue to build my legit freelance marketing business ( not in anyway an MLM or anything close to it), I been sure to share YouTube videos and blogs made by others who left Amway/ LTD WWDB locally in Richmond, Virginia as well in other states.
ReplyDeleteBut the Richmond, VA group is definitely infamous like World Wide Dream Builders are on in other states. Their reach has started to group into surrounding states like North Carolina (where LTD is headquartered). Manny & Candice Winston, Brian Mcgrath, Johnathan Benjamin, Jomin Mujar, Randall Ward should feel bad about the damage they have done to people. There are way too many horror stories from folks who were left with drained bank accounts, damaged relationships, and broken dreams dealing with those uplines and diamonds.
Worst of it is, these uplines don't care and turn around a mock people at large conferences and info sessions for being "quitters", broke minded, or not having "wealth mentality". One of Manny Winston's most famous sayings is " Logic kills dreams!!" That statement was usually stated to shame folks who started asking hard questions or were skeptical and started seeing the cracks in the Amway scheme.
Nothing has changed. Still a facade with the cloak being religion. What scumbags all of these people are. They will be judged one day!
ReplyDeleteTo Unknown at 7:08 AM --
ReplyDeleteNo one said that it was illegal to fail. All that is being said is that in Amway, IBOs are basically set up to fail by their corrupt up-lines and by a business scheme that is largely unworkable if you don't develop of huge and loyal down-line of suckers underneath you.
Are you involved in Amway? If not, why are you here?
I know I’m a bit late, but I came across this blog randomly and got sucked into reading all the comments. I was in LTD 2015-2017 and I can confirm the statement about Frank being put under Manny in order for him to go platinum. My time was obviously before the other things that went down to get him to Diamond, but Brian said it himself. So not someone trying to get me to think the business is a scam. And he tried to play it off like it was nothing. Anyone that wants to come on here and claim that we’re bitter because we “didn’t try hard enough” or “didn’t put in enough effort” please. Sure I lost money but I couldn’t care less about the money I lost. I’m saying it’s a scam because the people that you’re told to look up to are lying to you. They are lying to you about how they actually make the majority of their money, they are lying to you about how much money they make. I know because I have personally witnessed it. I didn’t just hear it from someone else. It is absolutely a cult and denying it is just further proving the insane amount of brainwashing that goes on. I also know that because I experienced it.
ReplyDeleteThank you for sharing your comments. It's these kinds of personal experiences that helps others who can learn from your experience and avoid similar pitfalls.
ReplyDeleteIf you're going to claim I lied, it would behoove you to identify what I've lied about. Seems common practice for Amway defenders.
ReplyDeleteAlso, if you want to make product claims and price comparisons, leave us enough information so we can see if your claims have any truth in them.
Amway diamonds are about deceiving downline to profit from them so bringing God into the discussion seems quite fake on your part.
Amway has been an incredible platform and offers quality products that are sold at a very reasonable price.
DeleteFor example: laundry detergent ranges from cheap brands to fancy brands 6/10ths of a $0.01 to $1 per load. The quality Amway detergent has cleaned my clothes better than anything at just $0.35 per load. Not bad.
Nutrilite is an incredible brand which goes way back prior to Amway.
Oh and the audios and reading list are invaluable if you utilize them to grow yourself.
Here’s the thing, this blog is for someone who got butthurt and gave up.
JoeNOTsoCool do you have any other decade grudges against other platforms you started and quit?
The great part is those who understand believe in what Network Marketing the success it can bring are doing it. There are stories upon stories of success decades ago and now of people who surpassed the status quo and didn’t succumbed to the negative mindset.
Amway is the platform with fantastic products that the Team of leaders which I am Involved are some of the most positive and encouraging people I’ve met. Success is a mindset and this blog which I’ve read many of the comments is a tool which promotes a quitter mindset.
Pyramids are fantastic shapes that can metaphorically describe so many things in life.
Good day and God bless!
Amway has been an incredible platform and offers quality products that are sold at a very reasonable price.
DeleteFor example: laundry detergent ranges from cheap brands to fancy brands 6/10ths of a $0.01 to $1 per load. The quality Amway detergent has cleaned my clothes better than anything at just $0.35 per load. Not bad.
Nutrilite is an incredible brand which goes way back prior to Amway.
Oh and the audios and reading list are invaluable if you utilize them to grow yourself.
Here’s the thing, this blog is for someone who got butthurt and gave up.
JoeNOTsoCool do you have any other decade grudges against other platforms you started and quit?
The great part is those who understand believe in what Network Marketing the success it can bring are doing it. There are stories upon stories of success decades ago and now of people who surpassed the status quo and didn’t succumbed to the negative mindset.
Amway is the platform with fantastic products that the Team of leaders which I am Involved are some of the most positive and encouraging people I’ve met. Success is a mindset and this blog which I’ve read many of the comments is a tool which promotes a quitter mindset.
Pyramids are fantastic shapes that can metaphorically describe so many things in life.
Good day and God bless!
Amway has been an incredible platform and offers quality products that are sold at a very reasonable price.
ReplyDeleteFor example: laundry detergent ranges from cheap brands to fancy brands 6/10ths of a $0.01 to $1 per load. The quality Amway detergent has cleaned my clothes better than anything at just $0.35 per load. Not bad.
Nutrilite is an incredible brand which goes way back prior to Amway.
Oh and the audios and reading list are invaluable if you utilize them to grow yourself.
Here’s the thing, this blog is for someone who got butthurt and gave up.
JoeNOTsoCool do you have any other decade grudges against other platforms you started and quit?
The great part is those who understand believe in what Network Marketing the success it can bring are doing it. There are stories upon stories of success decades ago and now of people who surpassed the status quo and didn’t succumbed to the negative mindset.
Amway is the platform with fantastic products that the Team of leaders which I am Involved are some of the most positive and encouraging people I’ve met. Success is a mindset and this blog which I’ve read many of the comments is a tool which promotes a quitter mindset.
Pyramids are fantastic shapes that can metaphorically describe so many things in life.
Good day and God bless!
Amway has been an incredible platform and offers quality products that are sold at a very reasonable price.
ReplyDeleteFor example: laundry detergent ranges from cheap brands to fancy brands 6/10ths of a $0.01 to $1 per load. The quality Amway detergent has cleaned my clothes better than anything at just $0.35 per load. Not bad.
Nutrilite is an incredible brand which goes way back prior to Amway.
Oh and the audios and reading list are invaluable if you utilize them to grow yourself.
Here’s the thing, this blog is for someone who got butthurt and gave up.
JoeNOTsoCool do you have any other decade grudges against other platforms you started and quit?
The great part is those who understand believe in what Network Marketing the success it can bring are doing it. There are stories upon stories of success decades ago and now of people who surpassed the status quo and didn’t succumbed to the negative mindset.
Amway is the platform with fantastic products that the Team of leaders which I am Involved are some of the most positive and encouraging people I’ve met. Success is a mindset and this blog which I’ve read many of the comments is a tool which promotes a quitter mindset.
Pyramids are fantastic shapes that can metaphorically describe so many things in life.
Good day and God bless!
Amway has been an incredible platform and offers quality products that are sold at a very reasonable price.
ReplyDeleteFor example: laundry detergent ranges from cheap brands to fancy brands 6/10ths of a $0.01 to $1 per load. The quality Amway detergent has cleaned my clothes better than anything at just $0.35 per load. Not bad.
Nutrilite is an incredible brand which goes way back prior to Amway.
Oh and the audios and reading list are invaluable if you utilize them to grow yourself.
Here’s the thing, this blog is for someone who got butthurt and gave up.
JoeNOTsoCool do you have any other decade grudges against other platforms you started and quit?
The great part is those who understand believe in what Network Marketing the success it can bring are doing it. There are stories upon stories of success decades ago and now of people who surpassed the status quo and didn’t succumbed to the negative mindset.
Amway is the platform with fantastic products that the Team of leaders which I am Involved are some of the most positive and encouraging people I’ve met. Success is a mindset and this blog which I’ve read many of the comments is a tool which promotes a quitter mindset.
Pyramids are fantastic shapes that can metaphorically describe so many things in life.
Good day and God bless!
Amway has been an incredible platform and offers quality products that are sold at a very reasonable price.
ReplyDeleteFor example: laundry detergent ranges from cheap brands to fancy brands 6/10ths of a $0.01 to $1 per load. The quality Amway detergent has cleaned my clothes better than anything at just $0.35 per load. Not bad.
Nutrilite is an incredible brand which goes way back prior to Amway.
Oh and the audios and reading list are invaluable if you utilize them to grow yourself.
Here’s the thing, this blog is for someone who got butthurt and gave up.
JoeNOTsoCool do you have any other decade grudges against other platforms you started and quit?
The great part is those who understand believe in what Network Marketing the success it can bring are doing it. There are stories upon stories of success decades ago and now of people who surpassed the status quo and didn’t succumbed to the negative mindset.
Amway is the platform with fantastic products that the Team of leaders which I am Involved are some of the most positive and encouraging people I’ve met. Success is a mindset and this blog which I’ve read many of the comments is a tool which promotes a quitter mindset.
Pyramids are fantastic shapes that can metaphorically describe so many things in life.
Good day and God bless!
Do you approve any comments pro amway?
ReplyDeleteJust as John Maxwell I encourage failure until you succeed!
ReplyDeleteHey JoeCoolboy do you have anything better to do with your time?
ReplyDelete"Freedom" at 6:16 PM is just the typical Amway asshole. He's been in the business for only four months, and he's learned to spout the usual bullshit perfectly.
ReplyDeleteAmway has been an incredible platform and offers quality products that are sold at a very reasonable price.
ReplyDeleteFor example: laundry detergent ranges from cheap brands to fancy brands 6/10ths of a $0.01 to $1 per load. The quality Amway detergent has cleaned my clothes better than anything at just $0.35 per load. Not bad.
Nutrilite is an incredible brand which goes way back prior to Amway.
Oh and the audios and reading list are invaluable if you utilize them to grow yourself.
Here’s the thing, this blog is for someone who got butthurt and gave up.
JoeNOTsoCool do you have any other decade grudges against other platforms you started and quit?
The great part is those who understand believe in what Network Marketing the success it can bring are doing it. There are stories upon stories of success decades ago and now of people who surpassed the status quo and didn’t succumbed to the negative mindset.
Amway is the platform with fantastic products that the Team of leaders which I am Involved are some of the most positive and encouraging people I’ve met. Success is a mindset and this blog which I’ve read many of the comments is a tool which promotes a quitter mindset.
Pyramids are fantastic shapes that can metaphorically describe so many things in life.
Good day and God bless!
You lied
ReplyDeleteStop the bs
ReplyDeleteQuit on this blog too
ReplyDeleteToo bad nobody can explain themselves because you don’t approve any comments back. You’re the fake and you’re the fraud.
ReplyDeleteHey, Freedom at 6:16 PM --
ReplyDeleteHow much money have you lost in Amway so far? If it's a lot, I guess you're well on your way to financial success. I mean, if you really believe that "failure is key to success," you must be doing fine.
Stop being an asshole. Amway is for losers and idiots.
What kind of a brain-dead asshole publishes THE SAME LENGTHY COMMENT EIGHT TIMES on the same discussion thread? Is this what Amway calls business skill and intelligence?
ReplyDeleteI know that the great mass of Amway IBOs are stupid, but this guy really takes the cake.
How will negative cash flow and business losses give you the lifestyle you want? Do you aspire to be homeless?
ReplyDeleteTo Anonymous at Dec. 16, 7:41 PM --
ReplyDeleteYou've been in Amway for two years? Please tell us EXACTLY how much profit you have made in that time, or how much money you have lost.
Also tell us how many persons you have recruited into your down-line, and what your monthly BV is.
If you don't respond, we'll just have to assume that you are a lying asshole.
Effort has little to do with success in Amway. And that's because many of the things upline advises you to do is non income producing activities. That and because Amway products just are not competitive with the general public. That is why so many Amway groups teach self consumption or "buy from yourself".
ReplyDeleteYou can't even reasonably try to market Amway stuff to mainstream stores because of Amway related company restrictions against advertising and/or selling products on retail store shelves.
To Anonymous at April 14, 7:08 PM --
ReplyDeleteIf LTD is an Amway organization, then it's supposed to be selling Amway products to make a profit. So what the fuck do you means by "ALL aspects of entrepreneurship, not just products sales"? Are you an idiot? The purpose of a retail business is to SELL PRODUCTS!
Your LTD organization is just a racket based on recruitment of new suckers to send money to their up-line bosses. And if you're so happy with it, why are coming to comment here at an anti-Amway website? Are you worried that the truth will get out?
Amways LTD Mannny Winston’s team, uses Voodoo black magic to mind control their business owners. BEWARE
ReplyDeleteManny Winston is a lying dirtbag.
ReplyDeleteRandall ward jr and Alexis rumber owes me money
ReplyDeleteFalse. My apologies
Delete