One thing that I was unaware of as an IBO was that our uplines were massively profiting from our tools purchases. I was in WWDB at the time and I was told very clearly that nobody made money from the tools and in fact, I was also told that WWDB was a non profit organization. Both of these statements were bold lies told by WWDB leaders and they have never been held accountable. We were told that upline cared about us and our success, thus they spent their own money to fly to functions to teach us how to succeed. Turns out they were all lies.
Eventually, the internet amd other media made it impossible to cover up these lies and uplines finally admitted that they profitted from tools. However, it looks like the upline downplayed the magnitude of the tools profits. I believe some upline may have made most of their income from tools, especially leaders who may have fallen out of qualification. Now days, the upline admits they make some profits from tools, but there is still a great deal of secrecy in the tools business. Has anyone ever seen a written agreement on tools compensation? So say you qualify diamond and your crown ambassador decides you don't get tool money, what legal recourse do you have?
What makes the whole thing with tools ironic is that the uplines are not supposed to entice Amway prospects into joining by using the tools money as a draw, but at the same time, they are told that tools are vital to their success. Uplines also show off trappings and lifestyles to attract recruits, but I believe that these trappings were likely obtained with supplemental tool income. if the diamonds actually own the toys they showoff. I suspect that some rent cars or houses to make the show attractive. And tool income has a higher profit margin than Amway products and fewer people participate in the pay plan so it makes perfect sense. Let's take Dream Night. It costs about $75 per person, but I can schedule a fancy dinner in a hotel for about $25 to $30 per head. The rest is profit. Same with FED, but FED probably costs less as there's no dinner and the fee is about $125. That's where the real money is made.
I wonder how many prospects or IBOs would be fired up about buying tools if they knew that their uplines might not currently be qualified at the level they claim to be, and knowing that the uplines will make a ton of money whether or not you make a cent as an IBO? Also, some uplines are shameless in pushing the tools on downline. Sure they might cut the newest guy a break and loan them some cds, but once that IBO decides to start building downline, they are likely to be told that a real business owner buys their own tools, or that a business owner needs to be a leader and purchase extra tools for their downline.
How would you feel uf your upline is touting themselves as a financial genious but in the background, their homes are foreclosed or they have financial difficulties? What if your upline touts their morals and you find out they are divorced or getting a divorce? What if your upline said Amway saves marriages? Your upline certainly won't say they are perfect, but conversely, they should be held to the highest standards if they are using their status to be able to sell tools and make large profits.
These are some Amway secrets that your upline doesn't want you to know about.
Joe, I can see how new IBOs would be tricked by the tools scam, since the massive profits made by up-line are not immediately visible. All you know, as a beginning IBO, is that you need help and advice, and the various tapes and CDs are supposed to give it to you. And before the internet and these anti-Amway websites came along, an IBO couldn't find out that the tools racket existed.
ReplyDeleteWhat I can't understand is how IBOs can be tricked into thinking that the "functions" are of any use at all! Once you've been to one, you surely must see that it a totally useless fantasy-festival. Why in the name of heaven would you repeat the experience, driving hundreds of miles to an inconvenient location, missing important family functions, jeopardizing your job, splurging on travel and hotel costs, all for nothing but a lousy catered dinner and the right to listen to a pack of loudmouth diamonds tell you about how rich they are? What's the point?
I can understand a person being tricked into buying tools for a while. After all, you can tell yourself that if you just keep listening hard enough, you'll pick up some business savvy from them. But a "function"? Especially those half-assed Evangelical howl-fests run by Dexter Yager and WWDB? It's abundantly clear after the first one you attend that you're never going to pick up the slightest bit of practical information about "business" there. So why keep on going?
As a male, all I can see as a benefit of these "functions" is that if you go stag, you might be able to lay a few Amway women on the side.
The way they build up the function is amazing. They will say that it's life changing and that your business cannot survive without going to the function. Your business will be set back 6 months if you don't attend.
DeleteBut the smart part by upline is to teach (when you return) that money isn't the important part of the business. That your friendships are the main reason to stay in Amway. I remember thinking bullshit, I got in business to make money, not friends.
But that's why I quit after I started to see upline for what they were. Crooked scam artists with nice suits and nice smiles.
"Making friends" is the main purpose of Amway?!?!
DeleteGood God, how could anyone have the nerve to spout a whopper like that? Imagine someone in a Fortune 500 company telling the employees that "making friends" is the most important part of their job!
I guess if I went to a "function" and made friends with the wives of a few Platinums and screwed them while the speeches were being made, I'd be considered "successful" in Amway.
Upline told many whoppers. They would say Amway IBOs have a 2% divorce rate while the rest of the world was at 60%. They would talk about buying houses with cash (which were lies) and how Amway IBOs should have family values where the wife stays home and watches the kids (But don't ever miss an Amway function no matter what).
DeleteHave you heard your upline screeching about job security and how people lost jobs because of uncertainty?
DeleteYes, upline made it sound like everyone would lose their jobs so you better build Amway. Of course, even a crappy job pays better and offers more security than Amway.
DeleteHappy New Year!! Keep up the good work.
ReplyDeleteThanks! Same to you!
DeleteJoe, I was doing some on-line research about Amway, in particular a couple named Wilson who seemed to have run a line of Amway called "WOW" or "Wilson Out West."
ReplyDeleteAnyway, I came to a site called "The Unofficial Amway Wiki" where the Wilsons (along with many, many other high-level Amway diamonds or other jewels were listed as "terminated." The list was quite extensive -- I couldn't believe how many couples had the word "terminated" after their names.
Is this one of Amway's secrets too? Have they "terminated" (i.e. fired) a lot of their bigshots for some reason? I would appreciate your comments on this.
FYI, the unofficial Amway Wiki is run by Amway zealot IBOFightback AKA David Steadson. He's been known to cyber stalk me and posted false and outrageous claims against me because he is trying to discredit my blog.
DeleteI believe the group you refer to was called TEAM. You can google TEAM Amwat and you'll find tons of information. Bacially, TEAM tried to effect change by asking Amway to make their prices more competitively and after some friction with Amway, the TEAM diamonds were terminated and most of them went to a new MLM at the time called Mona Vie.
There are a lot of stories and comments about them on a blog called Amthrax, which is linked on the right hand side of my blog.. TEAM leaders in Mona Vie were the same, trying to get everyone to buy their tools.
@Joecool, that last reply of yours reveals, what any smart and ruthless MLMer wants to do: Eliminate the layers of commission built in above him and create those same layers of commission below him. Makes no sense to join Amway and pay outrageous commission (which adds zero value to the product) to the dinosaurs who started or joined Amway early on. Start your own MLM where you get a piece of every sucker who joins from here to eternity. Then you also have first crack at being the biggest seller of the "tools". That word cracks me up, such B.S. LOL Also, the funniest thing is when Amway boasts they "eliminate the middleman" when in fact they actually add the middle man who gets a piece of every order without providing any value whatsoever. Talk about dead weight! But it doesn't seem to do them much good, as they always seem to be involved in divorces, bankruptcies and such.
DeleteRight, Amway doesn't eliminate middle men. They create many many more moddle emn, all who take a cut. And guess what? Just because someone signs up before you entitles them to a cut of your volume forever.
DeleteWell, then it would seem there is a natural temptation for any Diamond (or better) with a long down-line underneath him to break away from Amway and start his own MLM scam. But don't some of these Diamonds simply move over and join an already existing MLM? In that case, they'd still have some up-line on top of them. Or do they do it simply because the bosses of the new MLM offer them a financial incentive to desert Amway and come over to them?
DeleteYes, diamonds will commonly start their own LOS (motivational group) because they can soak the group for more tool money. And yes, some other MLM could offer an incentive for the diamond to jump with his entire group. Mona Vie attracted a bunch of Amwayers some years back.
DeleteHow do IBO's fall out of qualification?
ReplyDeleteEasy, people end up quitting so your volume goes down or completely disappears.
DeleteHi Joe,
ReplyDeleteI really appreciate the blog and what you do to keep people more deeply involved with the layers of corruption. I was introduced to WWDB and Amway this year by a former friend whom I worked with at a recent job. I was in a bad place with no money after graduating college and thought this was going to be the home run. I went to the first function at a weird church where a diamond basically came on stage and told his weird life story in an illiterate fashion. Finally towards the end he talked for two seconds about how you make money by drawing 12 circles on a white board. I was so confused as to how anyone thought this was not a pyramid, but my friend convinced me to listen to someone else. After I went all 3 days to an FED for free luckily, I was still lost. The main headliner that everyone was excited for was Brad Duncan. What a dumb piece of crap, he actually brought up the terrible percentages for success. He stated 95% of the people in the arena of 8,000 would walk out of there and never return, then 1 percent of those people would advance in the business, and 1/10 of 1% would become diamonds. I looked at my friend afterward and said why would you ever want to try and do this? The main guy just openly stated that people have a better chance of getting a royal flush in poker than succeeding here. I would've rather taken my gas and food money from those 3 days and spent it on the lottery...at least I would've seen some kind of return on scratchers. They also REFUSED to show me the numbers and how you make money...and this was after 5 meetings. When am I ever supposed to learn how to succeed? Finally the guy showed me the break down for starting as an IBO and I laughed. I told him I might pay for the year membership to Amway but I'll be damned if I'm paying $50 a month for a membership to an evangelical group that is going to sell me $30 a month in discs and another $30 in voicemail crap. I asked him why can't I just use my phone and e-mail and his response was that it isn't the same as hearing someone's actual voice when you have 100 followers...WTF!?!??! That's what the meetings are for. At that point, and I must be a saint for putting up with all that crap, I said enough is enough. In which I got the speech you will never understand, and you are giving up before you began, and you will never be successful with that attitude blah blah blah. The really sad part is that the guy who introduced me to that jerk was actually a really good person in a really bad place. I really hope he finds his way out quickly, because the way that they can take advantage of so many people that have so little is the most gruesome part of the tale. Anyways that's my story/tirade thank you for your service and keep up the good work!
Thanks for your comments. As for you question why you can't use your phone and why you need voicemail, it's because upline makes a lot of money selling voicemail subscriptions. And you're right. You have a much better chance of hitting a royal flush than making money in Amway.
DeleteIf out of 8000 people, 95% will leave the arena and not come back, how the heck do you make money?
Good job not getting scammed.
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ReplyDeletewe don't use voice mail , we don't sell tools, and we count up 25% of IBOs and count up 40% of amway sells.
ReplyDeleteFunctions are tools. Your upline sells functions for $100
DeleteSelling Tools don't mean tool scam. Not my upline sell function for $100 , the organization sell it and collect the money. If there is any left , they pay those volunteers and then would be it.
ReplyDeleteLike I said, 1000 people paying $100 is $100,000. If sales do not increase by much more than $100,000, then what's the point of having the function at all?
DeleteJoe please persend so augment to a business collage. How could you measure the sale increase by a fuction itself? We hold about 2 such functions a year , it cost 200k. The grow of our sales are far more than that.
ReplyDeleteIf your sales always grew more than the cost of the functions, Amway sales would be much more than it is now. Amway's sales in the US was about 1 billion annually 16 years ago and it's about the same now. And that's despite the fact that thousands of functions have been held in the US since then.
DeleteI am only talking about ours and our sales. Amway sales dropped last year in China , but our system added 9 FC last year. Our grow in us market is clear as we got new diamonds and triple diamonds rewarded
DeleteSo what line of sponsorship are you in?
Delete