Part of what Joecool perceives as the problem with the Amway opportunity is the utter lack of accountability of some upline leaders. They may tell you to trust them, to submit to them and simply copy or duplicate what they have done, and they imply that you will get the same results. Possibly millions of downlines over the years have put in blood sweat and tears into the business only to suffer massive losses following the system. Upline will take credit for meager success, but place the blame on the downline when success is not there. Upline will claim that they either did not try hard enough, were not teachable enough, or they didn't put in enough time and effort. Despite a shockingly low success rate of system IBOs, nobody seems to fault the system as being flawed. And nobody seems to question whether upline is at fault. I believe it's obvious that the system and the upline advice is severely flawed.
In my observations, I would say that many financial systems are similar. Whether it be BWW, N21, WWDB, real estate gurus or other systems, the success rate is extremely low. Many systems that advertise on television will have a disclaimer that a success testimony is a rare or unique experience. I believe it is similar to the systems in Amway. Dedication or continued spending on the system is not the problem. The problem is often the system itself. It can work for some exceptional people. These people were likely to succeed in other venues anyway. The problem is that is does not work for the majority of people. People who succeed in Amway likely succeed in spite of the system and not because of it.
The bigger problem, is that for many many years, some uplines have lived high on the hog off of the dedicated tool purchases of their downline. All the while, quesitonable or bad advice was given to the faithful downline. Advice such as quitting a job to attend a function, skipping financial obligations such as the rent or electric bills to buy more tools. One upline even said your family can skip a meal because the standing order may contain the one thing you needed to hear to make your business grow. I have personally seen couples lose their homes and go bankrupt because they followed upline advice. Upline to "has their best interest at heart". Granted, the couple has some culpability in these decisions, but uplines who give this advice seem to get a pass.
Where is the accountability? Some of these uplines who give and gave bad advice, are still active today, and some are still giving bad advice to their downlines. Advice that profits upline and drains downline. Even with valid complaints, it appears that many uplines avoid any accountability. For some, perhaps there is poetic justice, such as diamonds having their homes foreclosed. But as many uplines have nobody to hold them accountable, do you really want to do business with these folks? Would you invest your retirement money with a broker who could not be held accountable? Would you have your car repaired by a shop whose mechanics could not be held accountable? I believe the answer is not to these questions, yet many people are asked to trust and follow the advice of an upline who is not held accountable for their advice.
The system is credited for the few successes that are visible, but the individual is held accountable for any shortcomings or failures. IBOs, I encourage you to hold your upline leaders accountable for the advice they give you. If they won't answer tough questions or take responsibility, then one should wonder why the upline should be given your trust.
Does the Church of Scientology take any responsibility for the thousands of lives it has wrecked? NO.
ReplyDeleteDo televangelists take any responsibility for the thousands of people they have fleeced of their meager savings? NO.
Do drug dealers take any responsibility for the myriads of victims they have sent to disease, addiction, and squalid death? NO.
Do professional con-artists take responsibility for the many innocent people they have defrauded? NO.
So why should an Amway Diamond (one of the lowest type of scum-sucker on earth) take responsibility for all the money he has squeezed out of his struggling and failing down-line?
Diamonds who lie are the biggest scum suckers. LOL
DeleteIf the diamond takes full responsibility, then the diamond will lose 99% of the downline he controls and with that, 99% of the income from tools and bonuses goes down the drain.
ReplyDeleteLooking at the CORE steps, you mentioned accountability as part of CORE but no one adheres to that an worse, it is a one-way agreement with one benefited and the other is unknowingly being hoodwinked.
ReplyDeleteIt's a one way steert. The uplines are not held accoutable. They like to have downline do as they say but not as they do.
DeleteThe more I read, the more I feel I am lucky enough that I got a nice teacher .
ReplyDeleteBut there's plenty of evidence that there are many bad teachers in Amway. That's why people call it a scam.
DeleteIt's only a matter of time before your "teacher" starts to rip you off.
ReplyDeleteTry missing out few meetings and see what will your "teacher" say.
Yep upline teachers make money from downline so they may help you for free in the beginning but eventually they will sell you tools ad functions.
DeleteThey said please come next time . Or they ask what could they do to help. It is always for free.
DeleteQuiran, what country are you operatin from?
DeleteI have account in U.S and China , I was in U.S until 09.2015 and went China since then. Then I come back to Vegas this month. I am operating in both market since I will spend few months in U.S each year.
DeleteAnd what line of sponsorship are you in? WWDB, BWW, N21,????
DeleteNone of those. I am with ultra (Chao Fan ) you can read here http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052970204062704577223302734609434
DeleteSo are you operating out of China primarily?
DeleteNo, i am operating in both market as I spent roughly same amount of time in each Market . I travel a lot. Of course , our system is larger in China but also doing well in U.S. Our core plan and methods to running the business is the same across the world as holly is teaching the same class (with minor adjustment to local market of course) worldwide .
DeleteInteresting but from what's you've told me so far, you haven't seemed to have made a lot of income from Amway.
DeleteIf you had a really good teacher, he would have taught you to stay away from Amway like the bubonic plague.
ReplyDeleteWhy? They made million dollar and help thousand of people success.
ReplyDeleteWhat thousand people are successful? Only .26 make platinum. That's one in 400.
Delete8-9 out of ten of my downline IBOs are just consumer .
ReplyDeleteSo you make no retail profit from them. What's the point of signing up people for wholesale?
DeleteTo keep them as my customer and one day they might become a real partner . Some might take few years before they decide to join , that is fine, it cost me nothing at all. Plus , I still make 3-20% out of their net purchased price.
ReplyDeleteEven with those IBOs as your downline, when 50% or more quit each year, it's still tough to make money.
DeleteI don't know , but so far they like their product and everything goes fine . Some might quite , but some might refer new ones come . Time would tell
DeleteBut for how long?
DeletePerhaps Qiunan Tang is thinking about the old Amway watchword: "There's money in WIDTH, but there's security in DEPTH." This used to be talked about constantly in Amway circles.
ReplyDeleteThe idea is that a wide range of retail customers would certainly bring you money, but developing a down-line of IBOs was, in the long run, a better way to make sure your income was steady and increasing.
You're correct but the flaw in that is the 50% attrition rate. Hard to keep the group together when most do nothing and more than half will quit within a year.
DeleteJoe don't forget that in 10 years that diamond's amazing pipeline will turn to virtually 0 unless they get new blood all the time. I don't know of any other business that has been around for 10 years, and has a virtually new staff with success. Eventually, with turn over rates like these, that business will get a bad enough rap to be shunned out of existence. Only Amway and other MLM's can successfully pull off advantages like that.
DeleteBy the way Joe, with all of this great success that Amway has (10.8 Billion Dollar Company) every ambot can spout off. It's shocking how little publicity they like to bring to themselves. Perhaps you can do a segment on the lack of marketing/representation there is by Amway in the work space with their products compared to grocery stores, pharmacies, convenience stores etc. (My guess is they like to lay as low as possible with all of those wonderful law suits they seem to buy their way out of). However, my opinion isn't based upon any pure fact. Maybe you can dig some intelligence up on this subject.
Mike, you're right. A diamond cannot "walk away" from their business. There is no residual income. A diamond might receive income for a while but the attrition would take the business to zero soon enough.
DeleteAnd while Amway did 11 billion or whatever, all we need to know is that Walmart did close to 500 billion in sales. If Amway's products were so great and could compete with companies like Nestle or Proctor and Gamble, you can bet Amway would sell their stuff in stores.
But they can't and frankly, Amway's products wouldn't even sell if not for starry eyed IBOs being their own best customer while they think Amway will make them rich. Once the dream ends, so goes the product loyalty.
Maybe we have a clue here. If in America (as seems to be the case) Amway sales are limited primarily to IBOs and to pity purchases by their friends and family, then of course the business is hollow and fraudulent. Such a business could only be sustained by a never-ending recruitment of new IBOs, the way WWDB and the other Amway rackets emphasize.
DeleteBut if in other countries (the Asian ones) there is a stronger social cohesion among neighbors and acquaintances, it might be possible for someone to make a good profit from sales in width. Over there, you might have more retail customers simply because people are closer, friendlier, more locally fixed in place, and more prone to purchase stuff regularly from those whom they know and trust.
That sort of small-town closeness is pretty much gone in the US, where people today are more apt to go to big stores and buy according to price, effectiveness, and shopping convenience. Hence Amway's obsession with recruitment of new IBOs.
My cousin in Amway (back in the 1970s) used to tell a story about some kid in Florida who had not yet reached the age of eighteen. Since he was so young, he couldn't legally sponsor any down-line of his own. But he could sell Amway products retail, to non-Amway customers, and he managed to earn a respectable income doing this.
However, he lived in a rural part of Florida. So quite naturally he was in a small-town area where everyone knew each other, and had lived there for many years. That's why the kid had a good retail business.
That sort of world is pretty much gone forever in the US. But it might still be the case in many parts of Asia.
Of course diamond might able to work away and collect income for many years. We have a documented example. In Malaysia , there is a diamond die in car accident , 20 years ago. Then , she still receiving increasing income for past 20 years. Malaysia using same business plan as U.S. So fact proved it is possible. However it of course depend on the detail of the diamond legs . But in our system , it is very common that one diamond have 3-5 diamond downline. Our leading FC has 5 FC downline. In us market now we have double diamond with 2 diamond leg l too.
ReplyDeleteEveryone knows about some diamond who is getting residual income but nobody has been able to name one and verify that they are living off residual income from Amway.
DeleteLOL, Mr. Tang that holds as much weight as me saying I know this one guy whose Brother's, Uncle's, Wife's, Cousin twice removed is an Amway diamond. This vagueness as an argument needs some substantial proof provided.
DeleteQ, what will happen if those "diamond legs" break off because more than 90% quit within few years after joining? Will a diamond be able to walk away if those legs break off?
DeleteWhen legs fall out, you lose your bonuses and ranking of diamond.
DeleteYou come and introduce you to meet them in person , you are welcome to ask questions, see the rewards for amway , if you still don't believes , check out the pay check .
ReplyDeleteFor common senses , very few people would show those in public but if you don't believe , come and check in person.
I am with Chao Fan ask "ultra" in English . You can check the report from wsj here or just google it http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052970204062704577223302734609434
Seeing checks do not telll the whole story.
Delete