I recently read a comment from an Amway zealot on another blog. She mentions that someone's credentials (the credentials of an Amway critic) must be considered when looking at information that is presented. I will comment that showing me a sports car or a fancy suit is not proof of financial success. Telling the audience that you buy homes in cash is not proof either. In fact, some of these diamonds were found to have their homes foreclosed and some had financial difficulty, even though they at times had shown off pictures of their lifestyles. I believe that many diamonds are likely to be more like the general US population - in debt. In debt trying to portray a lifestyle that is unsustainable with their Amway and Amway related income.
I find this subject ironic because not one single upline leader, as far as I know, has ever supplied bonafide credentials about themselves. The audience assumes that the person on stage has certain credentials, but do they really? I will say that certainly, if someone is wearing a diamond pin for example, that this person has at least achieved the diamond level as recognized by Amway, but the level may not be current, and the level doesn't indicate the kind of income this person earns from Amway. (Joecool is criticized for being outdated even though I was at 4000 PV at one point in my Amway career)
What many people assume is that the diamonds buy homes and cars in cash, that they wake up at noon every day and participate in leisure activities all day while the cash rolls in. I have heard from some new IBOs, that their upline makes more money taking a crap in the morning than a critic makes in a whole year at a job. That IBO became quiet when some critics offered to take that bet.
But the truth of the matter is that as far as I know, only former diamonds have come clean about their Amway income. They are the only ones who spoke of credentials and accomplishments. Even critics of Amway will often openly speak about their experiences and achieved levels in the business. In the REAL business world, showing business tax returns and credentials are a normal part of doing business. It appears that only in the world of Amway is the supply of credentials and financial statements a big secret. Now I am not suggesting that IBOs or upline leaders should disclose their financials to the entire world, but certainly prospects and some downline should be able to see what their upline is doing financially, especially if that is the basis for purchasing their standing orders and function tickets. And I refer to business (Amway and Tools) income and expenses only, not from other personal sources.
I believe that IBOs and upline leaders do not disclose that information because it would not be beneficial to them. If it were, they would likely publish it freely, just as they flash around copies of checks. IBOs and prospects should take this to heart and ask upline the tough questions
I've just quit Amway a few months back. Although at first I was depressed and also angry at the people who do Amway, now I feel more relaxed. Looking back, there was a lot of tension and anxiety when I did the business. Not making profits, wasting time I could use productively, terrible peer pressure from the team, etc... . Now I just feel sorry for the IBOs.
ReplyDeleteYou can't really earn anything in Amway.
You Amwayers can lie all you want, but in the end you cannot lie to yourself.
Ask yourself if you really want to do this for the next 5 years, hell even next 10 years.
There were even several other people in my amway group that also quit soon after.
Walking in public really feel different when you're not hunting strangers like a vulture.
Thanks for sharing that comment. I'll bet you feel like you've got lot of free time on your hands as well.
ReplyDeleteOur neighborhood was taken over by the amway IBO. A person and the family lived in a house that was considered a rental situation meaning this amway IBO did not own the house. It was a nice house and this person was always out watering and trimming the bushes the night before the weekly amway prospect (circus) meeting so it looked nice with plush green grass. It is suspected that this person and the family were touting to the prospects that they could have a house like this in 2 to 5 years if they joined amway. The house was nicknamed: "The House of Lies". "The House of Thieves" as they were willing to take advantage of individuals who were clearly desperate for income and clearly would financially benefit from having a real job that provided income, a 401K that an employer contributes to, professional experience, and health insurance. You would see the family members out on their driveway all dressed up on the night of the prospect meeting greeting their potential prospects that was their $ revenue stream with one female family member wearing excessive jewelry to give the impression they were rich but in reality, the only thing they had was a beat up car that had an severe oil leak and 4 to 5 or more adults required to live in the house to keep up with the monthly rent. AND speaking about credentials: House ownership is considered PUBLIC RECORD. You can call the city or county where the house address is and ask where that information is available online with the city/county website (or they may provide it over the phone) and best of all, it is FREE information (NO COST. It is a public record). If an amway IBO tells you they own their house, then their name should be listed on the property deed with the city. Remember if they are listed on the deed, the deed won't show that they are in financial difficulty and/or having problems paying their mortgage. But if they are NOT listed on the deed, then they DO NOT OWN the house and it could be a rental situation or they are just using someone else's house for the prospect meeting.
ReplyDeleteThank you JoeCool for keeping this blog alive and helping others. For me? I have lost all respect for anyone involved with amway because of the amway circus that we had to watch live and all the lies that came with it.
Anonmyous, thanks for the compliment. I have kept this blog going for many years now and I don't plan to stop for now. Even if I stop blogging, the blog itself will remain so people can access the information.
ReplyDeleteThis question of credentials came up recently in another thread here. Credentials are documents. They aren't photos of big houses, or a fancy car, or a lot of bling on your wife. A real credential is on paper, with real names and real figures and real official stamps and seals.
ReplyDeleteThe fact that no Amway up-line will show you his tax returns, or his savings account book, or his profit-and-loss sheet from the Amway business is a big red flag. These guys have something to hide.
Hell, would you marry someone without finding out about their financial situation? Would you invest in a stock without checking its history and prospects? Would you send your kid to a college without first looking into the college's reputation, and its faculty?
And yet stupid people join Amway without doing any kind of research at all into what sort of "business opportunity" it is. If they did, they'd find out that Amway and all its various little subsystems like BWW and WWDB and Network 21 are nothing but corrupt rackets for cheating IBOs out of endless fees and payments.
That's why this blog is crucial. It actually saves some people from disaster. And that's why the scum up in Ada, Michigan hate this blog with a passion.
You are welcome JoeCool-est! Here are a few additional comments. The IBO that lived at the rental property situation listed above was seen on many occasions shopping at Costco. Really? I thought the Amway products were much more superior? Hmmm. Ok let’s give the IBO the benefit of the doubt. Fair right? Perhaps there are items they need at Costco that are not offered at Amway. Fine. Let’s go with that. An IBO’s business model is to require his/her downlines to buy Amway products personally and/or to go out and sell over priced products to customers. Costco’s business model is to provide goods and services at the lowest cost possible using a membership program. Extremely different programs right? Does it make sense that an IBO is attempting to sell overpriced products to the public but then personally seeks out stores where they can buy products and services at a lowest cost available to save money? Think about it. Does that make sense?
ReplyDeleteIf your IBO is asking you to personally buy amway products, ask them to show you a statement that THEY are also buying the amway products and just as much if not more since they are stating they make the big bucks from the amway business model.
Back to credentials: an IBO IS NOT INDUSTRY LICENSED OR TRAINED to provide you with financial advice. A financial advisor IS licensed and trained to give you solid advice on wealth management.
An IBO IS NOT INDUSTRY LICENSED OR TRAINED to give you family and/or relationship advice. A therapist IS industry licensed and trained to offer you family relationship advice.
Your financial situation and family dynamics is none of your IBO's business. You do not have to share/disclose these details with an IBO. Wasn't there comments here about upline IBOS not willing to share their financial statements to show the income generated from their amway business but yet they want YOU to share your financial situation with them. Think about it. No one way streets. I’ll show mine if you show yours should be the motto.
The next time an IBO wants to give you financial or family/relationship advice, ask them to show you their INDUSTRY LICENSE showing they are licensed as a professional to offer such advice. That should end the conversation. If you visit with a financial advisor or therapist office, their license will be in a frame on the wall showing that they are qualified, trained, and educated to offer this type of advice.
Finally, you are allowed to ask questions, you are allowed to seek out the truth, and most importantly you are allowed to just say NO and walk away at any point and any time from any situation when something doesn’t seem right.
Great comments! I'll add that not only are IBOs unqualified to give financial advice, they are also unqualified to give you nutritional advice or marriage/relationship advice as well. It's as if signing up for Amway before someone else (being an upline) gives you these magical powers. It doesn't.
ReplyDeleteThe whole thing in Amway is to gain power and control over your down-line. You must dictate their lifestyle, their domestic habits, their thinking, and above all their financial decisions.
ReplyDeleteAt a traditional job, the relationship between yourself and your boss is a contractual one. He pays you for your work, and you give him your time and labor. Can you be mutually friendly and helpful with him? Of course, that's possible, and even desirable. But the core of the job relationship is the cash nexus. Your boss can't tell you what church to attend, or which spouse you should choose, or whether you should buy a certain car, or what brand of products you must use at home. None of that is any of his business, and it has nothing whatsoever to do with your job.
In Amway, your up-line dictates all of the above stuff -- and more! -- to you. He functions as a tyrant in your private life. He's an obnoxious, nosey, intrusive presence who arrogantly makes decisions for you and for your family. He even presumes to give you medical, legal, psychological, and sexual advice!
Do you need a piece of shit like that in your life? Do you need some up-line prick in a cheap business suit telling you how to live? I cannot understand how free-born American citizens can surrender their freedom to some pompous Amway jerk who will treat them like serfs on a medieval manor.