One of the things that attracts many IBOs to the Amway opportunity is the idea that they can work part time, 2-5 years and gain a "shortcut" to ongoing and voluminous wealth. Many of the prospects don't have the kind of income or resources that they would like, so the possibility of a shortcut to these trappings sounds like a good idea. They sign up and get started, and then the realities of the business sets in. Upline might be able to justify or deflect the concerns for a while, but eventually, the sad reality will set in.
100 PV, is the defacto minimum quota for business building IBOs. It costs about $300 to purchase 100 PV worth of products. How many young and single people or couples for that matter, use and/or need $300 worth of household products each month? How many of these same people can actually afford to expend that much cash on household products? The pitch is to change where you shop but how many people were buying these kinds of goods prior to Amway? My guess is none. I know I purchased many items, including vitamins, that I didn't need or use before Amway. But my desire to be teachable and to be an example to my downline kept me buying the goods, and trying to pawn off some stuff on friends and relatives to lessen my PV burden. Basically, the 100 PV was just a business expense for me.
I also found that getting people to see the plan was no easy task. While my business was growing, it took more and more effort to recruit downline and I can see where many IBOs would reach the saturation point where there simply aren't anymore viable recruits and they might need to resort to cold contacting in order to generate potential prospects. This is probably why there are stories of IBOs stalking people in bookstores, malls and supermarkets. Even when people saw the plan, there wasn't a high percentage of new people signing up. It is why building and maintaining a business is a nearly impossible task, and it is why I believe there aren't people who retire, walk away from their Amway businesses and enjoy six figure residual incomes for life. This is why maintaining an Amway business is a monumental task.
The more likely scenario is an IBO signing up, buying and using the products and tools and slowly but surely build up debt. There are countless stories of ex IBOs who got fired up, started building the business and found that in a relatively short period of time, put themselves in thousands or tens of thousands of dollars in debt. All the while upline was encouraging them to buy more tools and attend more function, even when they were not profitable. In my opinion, this is confirmation that uplines care more about their tools profits that they do about downline success. I sat in functions where upline would teach about reducing debt, but in the same breath, say it was okay to go deeper in debt if it was to purchase more tools. Self serving advice.
It is why I believe this opportunity, along with the tools system, will nearly guarantee IBO failure. It is sad, but it is also a reality.
Joe, it seems to me that the basic flaw in Amway is that it is a business that is focused on recruiting, not on selling products.
ReplyDeleteYou can recruit and recruit among your friends, family, neighbors, old school buddies, and acquaintances, but there's only so far you can go with that. After a while, everybody runs out of people on their private list. If you're lucky, you might manage to convince four or five of them to join Amway, and they'll probably drop out within a year.
All that's left is cold contacts at malls, coffee shops, and bookstores, or by annoying people on-line with come-ons about "a great business opportunity." I find it suggestive that a great many parasites have set up on-line rackets where they promise to "teach you" or "show you" how to make cold contacts for Amway. In other words, Amway is about recruiting, and these con-men know that there are a lot of desperate IBOs out there who can't develop down-line by themselves.
But a real business ISN'T ABOUT RECRUITING PEOPLE INTO THE BUSINESS OF RECRUITING! A real business is about selling products that the general public wants. Amway products are non-competitive in the general marketplace, which is why your lying up-line tells you that you don't need to sell products to strangers -- all you have to do is recruit new persons to get into Amway.
This is such a blatant lie that I can't conceive why anyone would fall for it. Amway is a completely fake business based on an absurd premise.
It's unfortunate that some people may actually believe the nonsense that you are writing. You are making excuses for your failure. Not everyone is cut out to operate and grow their own business. What the Amway business model does do is expose what the person is truly made of. People don't become successful in business because it's easy. It's supposed to be tough. Like any other business, there are disappointments, setbacks, failures and even some stress. It's obvious you are not cut-out to be a business owner and a lot of people aren't and that's ok. I've talked to University students who spend $300+ a month just on lunches and other crap. And to say people don't use products to keep themselves or their environment clean, or themselves beautiful and healthy is absurd. I could go into anyone's home, look at their lifestyle and come up with 20+ items easily that could be switched. Education to learn any business is not free. People pay thousands, and sometimes tens of thousands of dollars to attend functions to acquire more knowledge. It's up to you to apply that knowledge to your business. And one last thing, I know many, many people who have created residual, on-going income in the half million dollar range and more. The sad reality is that the system didn't fail you, you failed the system.
ReplyDeleteI am agree, thank you
DeleteWell said, Robert. It is sad that this Joecool obviously was hurt by an upline not running their business quite right or he just couldn't understand them totally. Now he spends his time blaming Amway for his failure. And art the same time hurting others who are trying to build our business the right way. His rhetoric actually placed enough doubt in my son that he quit, and now my son stays away from me like I have leprosy. This jerk doesn't doesn't realize the pain he is causing to those of us who are building our business. He is a true loser.
DeleteRobert, excuse my French, but you're full of BS. Point out where I made excuses. You are using the Amway "tapespeak" baloney. So what if university students spen $300 a month on lunch and "other crap", that still better than wasting it on Amway products that are grossly overpriced and have less value than similar products you can get elsewhere. Education costs, money, yes, but if I pay to attend college, they teach me something useful. Try applying for a job with an "Amway education" and see what you get.
ReplyDeleteYou know many people with a residual ongoing income of half a million or more? Great, you didn't name a single one nor did you clai you are one of them. Big whoops, even if you know soe, they are doing it at the expense of others. I can name lottery winners, no difference. They got big money from the many who lost. Same as Amway.
The sad reality is that the system doesn't work. ow could I have failed the system doing everything asked of me except the part about making the amount of money I was told was available?
I doubt you will reply.
What I have noticed among my former uplines and crosslines is a habit of marrying one another. I feel that this helps to alleviate the cost of doing business and frankly, their circle is so small they wind up only dating amongst each other. It's kind of pathetic.
ReplyDelete@Robert, I'm one of those that believe the "nonsense" (Joecool) is writing. Also, I am a (real) business owner.
ReplyDeleteI find your take that "not everybody is cut out for the business" quite interesting. I am actually agreeing with you.
Since we agree not everybody is cut out for Amway, wouldn't it be unethical to pitch it to people whom you know would waste their time and money?
What if you meet someone who is very keen to join, but your gut feel tells you this person will waste his/her time? Do you discourage them from joining? Or do you tell them everyone can make it, and go on to insult their jobs, and tell them without Amway they'd be broke? Do you tell them they don't have to like sales?
I'm asking because the experience out there is that Amway enthusiasts pitch the opportunity to everyone who would listen, and they strongly recommend everyone who has seen the plan to join. Even people who can't afford starter packs and standing orders are encouraged to find the money. Since not everyone is cut-out for Amway, do you distance yourself from trying to convince people who are hesitant? Do you distance yourself from trying to recruit people who already have dire finances? Or do you take them to an upline that is especially talented at convincing?
Since not everyone is cut out for the alternative, do you think it is fair to insult people who work their jobs? Is it fair to use J.O.B acronyms to insult their lively hood? Real business people don't insult people who have jobs. Many have lost their jobs chasing the Amway dream, some students have quit their studies, and eventually quit Amway too. Would it not have been better if they knew they weren't cut out for it? Think of people who discourage friends or loved ones to join Amway. Think about it, since not everyone is cut-out, these caring friends and family, who has known the potential recruit for longer than you do, may actually give them the advice they need. Is it fair to call the people who are concerned about their loved ones, un-Christian dream stealers? Or are you just chasing another node in your downline? Are you rationalising that the decision is up to them. Like someone who offers alcohol to a known alcoholic? Moderate use of alcohol has many potential proven benefits after all. It's not your business if they choose to ruin their life. Or?
What if you've signed up someone who has no success in signing up downline, but enthusiastically attends functions for years. Perhaps they just don't have what it takes to bring others on board or to expand their sales. Do you advise them to calm down a bit, to equate their spent with results? Or do you cheer if young healthy people start buying vitamin pills they've have not needed before?
% wise, in your experience, what portion of the population is cut-out for Amway? Not an exact number. Is it more like 50%? or 90%? 10% ? Is it even important to know?
Do you disclose that likely hood when you sign up people? Do you say, we don't know whether you're cut out. I think you might be. Do you set specific result milestones, 12 months, 18 months or 24 months, failing which you'd recommend that they quit? Or do you say "you CAN do it, just work harder and follow the plan exactly"? And after 12 more months, you say the same?
Since you believe not everyone is cut-out for it, at what point do you say to your downline that's enough? Do you?
Robert Payne spouts all the usual canned Amspeak baloney. He sounds like a Standing Order tape.
ReplyDeleteOne thing he doesn't address is the contradiction between his insistence that Amway is hard, and difficult, and stressful, and the the fact that when the Amway plan is shown to prospective recruits these recruits are always told how "easy" the whole thing is. Just duplicate up-line and follow their commands to the letter, and you're bound to become rich.
Does Payne deny that this is what goes on at those recruitment meetings? And let him answer Kwaaikat's very pertinent question: When Payne realizes that certain recruits are not cut out for Amway, does he tell them so, and does he advise them NOT to sign up as IBOs?
How about a straight answer on that, Robert Payne from Canada?
As for the absurd claim that he knows many people who have "residual, on-going income in the half million dollar range or more," I call his bluff. Let him come back here and name them, specifically. I think Robert Payne is a goddamned liar.
Rick, you're full of guano. Show me a single instance where I've blamed Amway for my circumstances. Your statement is just another "canned" response that you heard on a cd.
ReplyDeleteHow am I hurting others who are building a business? Since about 99.5% of IBOs make no money or lose money, I'd say my blog is valuable service wouldn't you?
I'm glad your son quit so he doesn't wind up losing a lot of money but how would I have done it? Did I force him to read my blog and make up his own mind? Your statement is actually comical to me.
What pain can my blog cause you? Did someone force you to read the articles and force others to quit? My blog just sits here and people come and read on their own accord. My blog doesn't appear when you turn on your computer does it?
It's funny that you call me a loser when you know nothing about me or my circumstances. I'm actually quite well off financially without anything to do with Amway. Isn't that cool?
Rick --
ReplyDeleteRemember on April 13th in the comment section for the blog post "Believe in Amway!" when you said you would never return to this blog? What happened with that promise?
On April 13th Rick said, "I am very happy to leave this blog cause it serves no purpose to go back an forth with people that had such a bad experience with Amway."
And yet here you are, again, spouting off drivel and now complaining about your horrible relationship with your child (something you had brought up before as well, and also didn't take responsibility for it in the past).
Rick said on June 27th, "His rhetoric actually placed enough doubt in my son that he quit, and now my son stays away from me like I have leprosy. This jerk doesn't doesn't realize the pain he is causing to those of us who are building our business. He is a true loser."
I don't normally support family separation, but your son clearly knows what is best. You are completely delusional and filled with anger. You are not a positive influence to be around for business advice, and clearly are emotionally disturbed enough to not take responsibility for your broken relationship.
A normal parent would say, "Oh crap, I screwed up my relationship with my kid and I should probably do something different to fix it." yet your response seems to be, "Screw this Joe Cool guy! He ruined my family and he is to blame for my awful existence" which is completely ridiculous.
You are the epitome of an awful human being and the status quo of a typical Amwayer. If you spent half as much time flogging this blog and Joe with your insults as you did trying to fix your family, you may be a much happier person.
As a former Amway IBO, I have to agree with this article. My only regret was that I didn't stop sooner as I was "brainwashed" into "investing" loads of money expecting a better return which never happened. I think what times are happening is people build quick relationships with strangers and then feel like those strangers are their best friends and Lucite on who was there first. I became better than everyone else at least in my mind and I almost lost all my friends and also turned a lot of people off even though I wasn't successful by any means I spoke as if I was and made everyone seem like what they did was slavery. I was following the "system" but I never seem to gain much ground and I eventually just got comfortable with the team that I lost sight on how poorly my business was doing and I also lost motivation to perform at my job because in my mind I was going to be successful in the next few years it would happen eventually because I saw a lot of my up line doing well or at least saying they were doing well.
ReplyDeleteI could go on for a while but I'm not totally going to bash it because I do think there is some good in it however like someone mentioned earlier I don't think they are honest enough when it comes to having those conversations with people about whether it's the right business for them or not and they lead on many people who end up being wastes of time.
I can also relate to the people responding in this thread who are in Amway and Are trying to argue for the positive and I remember saying all the same stuff they did so it's not really true because that was all programmed in our brains from CDs functions and up line ideas but truth is most of the people would not feel the same way if they weren't told how to think, and just used there own judgement and understanding of business.
Just my 2 cents...
Thanks for your comments. Your perspective is quite common for many former IBOs, including myself. You can see it clearly once your head is out of the fog called Amway.
ReplyDelete