One of the biggest crocks taught by upline under the guise of sound business advice was the buy from yourself nonsense. Be your own best customer. Buy from yourself at full retail and use the profits to pay for your tools and functions is the BS that was taught. Think about it, if you buy from yourself, the biggest profit goes to Amway and your upline. You get nothing unless you meet the minimum PV level and even if you pay yourself full retail, the money in your business account came from your own pocket. All you did was move money from your bank account to your business account.
Upline fools you into thinking you are a business owner when in reality you are simple a customer of Amway and possibly your upline. Have you ever heard of someone making millions using a cash back credit card which is similar to the concept that upline uses where you buy what you need and get a rebate from Amway? While it sounds ridiculous, this is what upline is schlepping on their IBOS and sadly, many new IBOS fall for it. They think they are following valuable advice from upline but they are just fooled into making bad decisions based on what's supposed to be sage advice.Unless you sell a lot of products to people who are not IBOS, all you are doing is making money from your down line, if you even make a net profit after paying for tools and functions. Think about this concept carefully. If you could buy your way to prosperity. You could simply buy 15,000 PV yourself and instantly become a ruby. However, that much PV would cost nearly $50,000 dollars and your bonus money would not even cover half of cost of the PV you purchased. So how is buying from yourself ever a great idea in business terms?
Sure, upline will use the saying that you should support your own business. That might be true to e point, but ask yourself these questions. Why do the diamonds buy suits and other things that aren't in the Amway catalog? Why do they expect the rank and file to do so? Unless the product is actually produced by Amway, all you're doing is paying full retail to Amway partner stores when you could very likely buy the same product right at the store at a smaller cost that thru the Amway catalog. So much for eliminating the middle man.
So if your upline advises this concept, you should ask tough questions and demand answers or run away from them as fast as you can. Do the math. I urge IBOS and prospects to heed this warning because uplines are also hurting in a tough economy but they have you as their downline to exploit for income. Beware! 😎
So if your upline advises this concept, you should ask tough questions and demand answers or run away from them as fast as you can. Do the math. I urge IBOS and prospects to heed this warning because uplines are also hurting in a tough economy but they have you as their downline to exploit for income. Beware! 😎
******* RAJ SHAH EXPOSED IN BWW ******** PT. 1Latest news Raj Shah has lost over 90% of his BWW team in North America.Many(All) of his big leaders have left BWW to join Jody Victor's MMP (Marker Man)system. Marker Man offers a franchise system where you can operate as a individual entity under there umbrella, sharing upto 20% of revenues. Victor is the only one in Amway who has a franchise system arrangement.The leaders leaving Raj Shah who has long been known to bully and abuse downline leaders for years. Are as follows:Ganesh Shenoy(Double Diamond)Jyoti Prakash(F.EDC)Cheetan Rastoogi (Founders Diamond)Chak Kukani (F.EDC)And all there downline Diamonds and leaders have left Raj Shah.Could be upto a dozen plus Diamonds have left Raj Shah in North America,with many to follow. Raj Shah also upset many Punjabi/Sikhs and people who are from agriculture backgrounds(farming)by promoting Modi on his instagram, he promptly took the messages down after many peoplestarted a huge backlash against Raj. Raj Shah is a typical Gujurati there god is money, as has been demonstrated by the Leaders that were the closest to him leaving.Even his once loyal follower Nitin Soni (Diamond due to 3 international legs, has never received a Diamond Bonus in the US, due to not having 6 North American qualified legs) who onceclaimed to his West Coast leaders in Vancouver that to them Raj and Sangita were Gods, (current pin F.Sapphire/Emerald) is also aligning with Ganesh.This comes as a huge blow in particular to Raj Shah and BWW. Raj was betting these diamonds that sit on the Leadershipcouncil of BWW would never leave as they all have signed exit agreements where they are penalized $1 million for exiting BWW.These leaders and Pappalardos(Crown) agreed for the $5 Million penalty.These leaders are counter claiming that BWW owes them hundreds of thousands of dollars, obviously Amway will be stepping into mediate this break up, most likely a out of court settlement to keep it out of the media. Info from various leaders in Ganesh's downline in North America is that Ganesh was due to have his own function he had the numbers but Raj kept interfering soo Ganesh couldnot have his own function. You have to remember when you have your own function, such as when Raj was having his own Summer conference or Dream night they(Raj) keep all the money left over from expenses and downline tool breaks. On those weekends Raj was pocketing 150-170k per weekend.Absolutely sickening!! And why isnt there any disclosure??
ReplyDelete******* RAJ SHAH EXPOSED IN BWW ******** PT. 1Latest news Raj Shah has lost over 90% of his BWW team in North America.Many(All) of his big leaders have left BWW to join Jody Victor's MMP (Marker Man)system. Marker Man offers a franchise system where you can operate as a individual entity under there umbrella, sharing upto 20% of revenues. Victor is the only one in Amway who has a franchise system arrangement.The leaders leaving Raj Shah who has long been known to bully and abuse downline leaders for years. Are as follows:Ganesh Shenoy(Double Diamond)Jyoti Prakash(F.EDC)Cheetan Rastoogi (Founders Diamond)Chak Kukani (F.EDC)And all there downline Diamonds and leaders have left Raj Shah.Could be upto a dozen plus Diamonds have left Raj Shah in North America,with many to follow. Raj Shah also upset many Punjabi/Sikhs and people who are from agriculture backgrounds(farming)by promoting Modi on his instagram, he promptly took the messages down after many peoplestarted a huge backlash against Raj. Raj Shah is a typical Gujurati there god is money, as has been demonstrated by the Leaders that were the closest to him leaving.Even his once loyal follower Nitin Soni (Diamond due to 3 international legs, has never received a Diamond Bonus in the US, due to not having 6 North American qualified legs) who onceclaimed to his West Coast leaders in Vancouver that to them Raj and Sangita were Gods, (current pin F.Sapphire/Emerald) is also aligning with Ganesh.This comes as a huge blow in particular to Raj Shah and BWW. Raj was betting these diamonds that sit on the Leadershipcouncil of BWW would never leave as they all have signed exit agreements where they are penalized $1 million for exiting BWW.These leaders and Pappalardos(Crown) agreed for the $5 Million penalty.These leaders are counter claiming that BWW owes them hundreds of thousands of dollars, obviously Amway will be stepping into mediate this break up, most likely a out of court settlement to keep it out of the media. Info from various leaders in Ganesh's downline in North America is that Ganesh was due to have his own function he had the numbers but Raj kept interfering soo Ganesh couldnot have his own function. You have to remember when you have your own function, such as when Raj was having his own Summer conference or Dream night they(Raj) keep all the money left over from expenses and downline tool breaks. On those weekends Raj was pocketing 150-170k per weekend.Absolutely sickening!! And why isnt there any disclosure??
ReplyDeleteSeems Raj and Ganesh have created their own system to make most money in tools and functions. There is no loyalty in this business. Ganesh needs Raj to show that he is aligned with some upline above.Raj needs Ganesh for the excitement in his group, which he thinks that his own group will benefit from. This symbiosis keeps them together.Otherwise, these two will go their separate ways too. All a matter of time. Seen this happening over an over again. Money and power talks!!!
DeleteRaj is very shrewd and so are others. Raj is an expert at creating confusion and stealing people even from his downline organization and then putting them under his non performing legs or under his international legs. That is how he went big pin here. Seen him sweating trying to do cold contacting. However stealing others business he is comfortable with. I am not vouching high integrity of any other high pin either. Seen many in close quarters. If serving people and doing good for others and yourself is your goal, you can forget it. If you are a smooth talking manipulator who has no conscience, and you are in this business for yourself and yourself only, you will make it big!! You can choose to agree or not. However, if you disagree and continue to be naive, someday these words will bring meaning, if you remember!!
ReplyDeleteAll this breaking away and aligning is nothing but fight for system money. If you have your own functions, you will keep biggest chunk to yourself. All these big pins have cat and dog fights over money in both local and international markets and then break up. Everyone else aligns where they have their own best interests and not for any downline's sake, no matter how they pretend. With their team , they create the illusion that all this was done for their growth sake. Continue giving the false hope that, the stumbling block in their business is removed.If you see the history, this has happened many times before and also will happen in the future of this business. Amway continues being a company with great products. It is the system which messes it up. I met someone recently who has been in business for over 25years, but is hoping that this business will still work for him. What a brain wash!!! If it does not work in 2-3years run away.Find sonething else.Longer you stay harder to get out.
ReplyDeleteMy thoughts
ReplyDeleteRemember those functions were Gala, Shah, Shenoy and Samaratunga pretended to be united on the stage with the meaningless edification words for each other, while gossiping in the back. They would try avoiding each other backstage with only hi-bye pretenses. Functions are just feel good shows for everyone and true money makers for big pins. The same funneled money was reflected in their life style videos. Heart goes for all the naive ibos who put everything on-line including job career, family and friend relationships & family time. Even little kids pay the price by going to baby sitters evenings and weekends, not to mention all out station trips. All at the end to have an empty bag after many hopeful years in the business.
ReplyDeleteYou missed the whole point. Remember this is the most forgiving business and bottom-up. You really don’t succeed if you try to cheat, steal and con other people in long term. It’s not perfect. (Take an honest look anywhere. Nobody is perfect) When it comes to people, they are flawed. But system and Amway (try operating a business in 100 plus countries which include India, Japan, South Korea and China where skepticism is beyond infinite : ) ) are very solid (not perfect). Problem is, people don’t have tenacity and strong work ethic. You have to work the hardest than anything you have ever worked in your life consistently and persistently while working with your coach with laser sharp focus without focusing on who else is doing what. It’s really none of your business. God will take care of that. As long as you are honestly building the business, nothing else matter. You don’t have to compromise on every single thing in your life either. That’s where counseling in the business helps come. Now, it may seem like few people get a break sooner (you really don’t know how their work ethic was and what amount of crap they went through though) and you may have to work the longest. So what? Do you expect to have ongoing income of few thousand dollars to begin with and more later (equivalent of millions of dollars of investment) without working? Imagine how long will it take for you to save or make that amount of money outside of Amway. Also, you can sell Amway business back to Amway or you can pass it to your next generation (equivalent of selling McDonalds or Subway franchising). Do you expect this kind of deal where you don’t have to invest money except in system or quit your job without hard work? (try operating a Dunkin Donuts or Subway or Gas station or Indian restaurant while doing a full time job and you will know the burdens). Even if you don’t succeed in the business, teachings from the system will help you in your personal and professional life. (Compare the cost of similar teachings you will pay from outside. Cheapest weekend function I found out outside was three times more costly than the average weekend function ticket cost of the Amway system. Usually, the cost runs in thousands). Do you think function cost, book cost and cost of a talk is a lot? It’s a joke. Be honest about yourself. You will spend $100-$200 on a weekend outside without thinking. I will throw a number if one owns a restaurant just for a comparison. Do you know just the monthly linen service cost (with or without a customer) can run minimum $500 per month? If you honestly think business isn’t for you, you can quit without having to sell it at loss as compared to outside traditional businesses. But rather than introspecting and taking responsibility of your own failure or success, it’s so easy to criticize others. You can disagree with me. You can give me a befitting reply with more articulate words and win your argument. It really doesn’t matter to me. Introspect honestly. My two cents…
ReplyDeleteMarch 6 Anoymous: That is right. Send your kids to inner city schools, which has all kinds of problems and most drop out anyway. Preach tenacity and hardworking to them and give them examples of people who made it in those schools. On weekends and week day evenings take them to your system functions and tell them it would help them develop laser sharp attitude of winning in school. Ask them to introspect if they are failing and tell them that they did not work hard enough. Year after year ask them to listen to all motivational stuff and keep doing the same and tell them that they will succeed someday. This analogy should work similar to what you describe above but in a different context. Will you do the above or suddenly your rules change and say that this situation is different? Clearly by your post, you are a big pin who feels threatened that your team may read and make sense out of this blog site. Hence your presence and closed mind comment here.
DeleteTo Anonymous at March 6 --
ReplyDeleteDo you know that 99% of all IBOs in Amway do not make any money at all?
What kind of a record is that for a supposedly "successful" business opportunity?
Grow up.
It's non sense. Stealing money business.
DeleteWould you knowingly send your kid to a school where 99% kids fail? Or would you send and preach hard work to them?
Delete@Anonymous on 6 March
ReplyDeleteThe fact that Amway operates in 100 countries does not prove that the opportunity they offer to distributors is very solid. Many tobacco companies operate in 100 countries too, turn good profits, pay their taxes and get good ratings for addressing consumer complaints, it does not make what they offer wholesome.
Confusing the Amway corporation (heck I wouldn't say now to shares in it if I didn't have ethical objections) with the Amway distributor "business opportunity" on offer is a persistent mistake defenders make. You imply that you are not interested in how other distributors are doing. Perhaps you really should be, not least because their financials are for more relevant to your prospects than Amway's financials.
"Do you expect this kind of deal where you don’t have to invest money?".
Actually it depends.
Typically for a work from home one person business, where you don't have to pay salaries, purchase and maintain machines and don't have to rent office space, there should not be that much investment required until well after things are well under way and generating cash. Least of all for a business plan specifically pitched as low startup costs.
"Cheapest weekend function I found out outside was three times more costly than the average weekend function ticket cost of the Amway system."
If you start an authentic one person work from home business where you have some kind of business plan, attending weekend functions should be the last thing on your mind. In a new business you really should focus on direct income generating activities first. If you earn enough money and the scale of your turnover justifies it, you can decide how to spend it on what would have been luxuries early on. That is really Business 101 stuff.
"Even if you don’t succeed in the business, teachings from the system will help you in your personal and professional life."
If these "teachings" do not help you to distinguish between the Amway corporation, which is actually your supplier, and your own business, and if they didn't teach you to focus foremost only on income generating activities, I really doubt that.
The excessive emphasis on hard work as a determinant of business success is misinformed. This advice is often repeated amongst Amway enthusiasts, because it superficially sounds good, and is easy to fault someone who said they followed the plan but failed, by pointing out one aspect or instance where they didn't work as hard as they could have, and imply that therefore the failure was their fault. People who are focused will do what they need to do, there is no need to preach hard work to them. The idea that such a small fraction of those who sign up are focused to make something of the business is nonsense. Far more important than hard work in business success generally, is to understand the market, understand what is going on in your business (financial book keeping), and understand where to focus (on income generating activities), and when to quit activities that don't bring income. These are the very things Amway "teachings" suppress.
"You can give me a befitting reply with more articulate words and win your argument. It really doesn’t matter to me."
The sad thing is that I believe you. You absolute trust in advice from vested entities like your upline ("That’s where counseling in the business helps"), but are in principle closed to outsider objective advice, even if well reasoned.
kawaaikat, excellent analysis and comments.
ReplyDeleteFor many IBOs, Amway sounds great on paper but in reality, the IBOs are mostly struggling and never break even. The cost of tools and functions sent most into financial purgatory until they snap out of it and walk away. But the upline uses subtle pressure by teaching that losers quit and that those who never quit will succeed.
The upline are insidious. They will say anything to get you to stay in longer and spend more on tools and functions that they profit from.
And staying in longer doesn't make you any closer to success, despite what upline says.
The business model is flawed and the business is like a sinking boat. You can bail and bail water and maybe keep the thing afloat for a while but once you get weary and slow down, that boat sinks.
Everything that the March 6 commenter says shows that he considers Amway a religion rather than a business venture. You don't have to succeed in a religion -- all you need is to have faith and believe and be loyal to the dogma you are taught.
ReplyDeleteHe says "Even if you don't succeed in the business, teachings from the system will help you in your personal and professional life." Amway partisans constantly spout this absurdity, and it only proves my point. Since when is a business not about making money? Since when is business about personal improvement?
Religious cults always teach believers to ignore actual reality and think only of "higher things." Amway has perfected that teaching into a ready-made excuse to cover up the fact of financial failure.
March 6 anonymous : Is your belief being threatened? Why are you here reading and replying to posts, if other people's views do not matter to you?
ReplyDeleteThen on top of it he drags his kids- Reena, Ronak, and Reeya- into this mess. Those poor kids had a bright future but instead are just going down the cynical path of their parents and hyper focused on making money and not in good ways.
ReplyDeletePretty sure March 6th anonymous is one of Raj and Sangita’s kids trying to save their a**
ReplyDeleteMarch 6 Anonymous: Your comments are nothing new. All ra-ra stuff everyone has heard from stage before. All designed to make big pins richer and nothing else. Perhaps you are one and want to justify?!!
ReplyDeleteThe entire Amway racket (and all of its subsystems like WWG, BWW, Network, and the rest) are great at coming up with stupid sayings that can be repeated over and over, like a mantra. They are meaningless, but they sound good to the idiots who join up. Here are a few:
ReplyDelete1) BUY FROM YOUR OWN STORE! Think about this for ten seconds, and you'll see that it is absurd. You're NOT buying from your own store -- you're buying from the Amway Corporation and they are getting the profit. Even if you did have your own store, buying from yourself is taking the money out of your right-hand pocket and putting it into your left-hand pocket.
2) WE TELL YOU TO PRO-SUME, NOT CONSUME! This is a meaningless play on words, and makes no rational sense at all.
3) IF THE DREAM IS BIG ENOUGH, THE FACTS DON'T MATTER! This is not just idiotic, it's dangerous. If you have a huge dream about jumping out of a plane without a parachute, do you actually think the fact of gravity will not matter? Stop dreaming, and grow the fuck up.
4) NEVER SAY NEGATIVE! ALWAYS SAY POSITIVE! Yeah, right. Everything in the world is just fine and dandy, and success is guaranteed to be right around the corner. You have to be a real asshole to fall for this lie.
5) AMWAY IS YOUR FAMILY! Yeah, as long as you pay your monthly fees, go to all functions, and kiss your up-line's ass at every meeting. If you don't, nobody will talk to you.
There are plenty more mantras such as this. I hope other readers will post a few on this thread.
I agree with everything you said except people who join as idiots. I would label them as naive people who just wanted better for themselves. They are the people who want to believe that this opportunity will work for them. And there is nothing wrong with that. Whether they do or most likely quit is another story.
DeleteThis is crazy about all the so called leaders breaking away from Shah/ Gala/ BWW. How much garbage we had to listen about unity and serving the leaders? IBO’s wake up and smell the truth. Even if you spent time making some YouTube videos, you will make more money than being in Amway. Also does anyone know about Sanjiv Sahay? Is he still in Amway? Biggest hypocrite/ clown and bashed jobs/ commute everything about corporate America. His wife Shauna Sahay quietly went and got her MBA and has been back at job for 10 plus years. What is the truth? Shauna Sahay’s LinkedIn profile has nothing about her Amway/ BWW experience. Is she so embarrassed about it? We were shoved so much garbage by Sanjiv and Shauna Sahay through cds/ lifestyle videos, functions. I don’t know how they wake up and go through their day knowing how much deceit and heartbreaks they caused in people’s financial lives
ReplyDelete