A Story Of Deception And Brainwashing?

This comment came from another Amway related forum.  These stories seem to have a common theme.  LOL

 Author: Wally

Comment:

I live in the DC metro area and was approached by a guy in Best Buy about a "business opportunity". The word Amway was never mentioned once in the entire conversation. Instead, the focus was on his business and how there was a solid opportunity that shouldn't be missed. I figured it can't hurt, so I was open to listening. Even on his business card, it said nothing of Amway. The guy forwarded me a link to my email of his business which explored social networking. Again, kind of vague. It all came together when I went to my first Amway meeting.

Going in, I had no idea this was Amway. They all took pride in calling themselves entrepreneurs and were all extremely upbeat, positive, and social. The whole session was interesting, but when the speaker started talking about using your existing social networks on Facebook to potentially mine for sales clients...I was a little put off.

At this point, I basically said to my "sponsor", thanks but no thanks. However, he was strategic about his approach. He stayed away for a while, but came back later with a new opportunity to explore the world of the business. Honestly, even though I wasn't all that attracted to the business itself, I figured I may give it a go simply because it is taking me out of my comfort zone, is something brand new, involves numerous highly optimistic, social people, and seems harmless.

We reconnected, my sponsor and I, and I laid out the cash to get up and rolling. Every word out of my sponsor's mouth was a battle cry for victory. He did not know the meaning of defeat, or even the prospect of failing. He was relentless in his perspective that he is "winning". He is victorious in life and life is his to be conquered. It's here that I began to think that he is brainwashed. He seemed almost in denial to some things. Intentionally avoiding reality and choosing to be absorbed in a false notion. Weird.

After I was up and rolling, I attended the meetings, attended the social events, and mingled. I bought a bunch of stuff to meet the monthly PV goals, and also sold what I could. The selling was a lot more difficult than just buying the items myself. Even though the quality of the products are quite good, the prices are not exactly bargains.

After a few months of doing this, I realized that pitching products to family and friends, and in turn, alienating some of them, was not something I wanted to pursue any longer. It quickly became unappealing. And all the friendships made through Amway were friendships crafted through the desire for money. They were all financial transactions in form and substance. I was encouraged strongly to constantly bring new people in, and get them involved. Essentially, I would instruct them in the very same way that I was instructed by my sponsor. Inevitably, I would do my best to mentor them so that they have success, and their success became my success. Once one starts picturing how big the web can be, it can be hard to disengage.

My sponsor embodied very strong conservative Christian beliefs. He seemed to be infatuated with the Bible, and quoted freely from it. I think he thought of himself as a spiritual warrior as well as an entrepreneur. But it's not his products that he's selling. It's Amway's products. And he wasn't a savior; he is just a guy doing the best he can to motivate others to...sell products that are overpriced.

When I finally disentangled myself, he expectedly did not take it well. In so many words, he told me that your life won't be very meaningful once you leave Amway. He also said that he'll make a ton of money and is a part of a multi-million dollar business. That's all well and fine, but does he actually expect to be making millions? He is definitely brain washed by his upline guys. There's pictures of them rolling around in Ferraris and beautiful women...I guess he thinks this is his future.

In any case, I think the Amway business succeeds....at being a total failure. Why encourage marketing to family and friends? What does this say about the seller? That they value what the people closest to them can do for them on a monetary basis? What happens when the answer is no? Does this mean that this friend or family member is reprehensible or a traitor? Also, the products Amway makes can be bought at more or less the same quality at Target or Walmart, but cheaper. What's so special about Amway? Nothing. Starting a "business" is very different than "selling Amway stuff"".

And why the false sense of optimism, even when the reality is staring you right in the face? I suppose that a lot of these hardcore Amway folks are brainwashed into thinking that displaying vulnerability, or anything that might make you appear...human, is weakness. Too bad.

I think the correct term is used by the poster above, Terrance, "suckered". Please don't get suckered in. It all will look appealing. The Amway rep will likely be extraordinarily charismatic, friendly, social, and overall look like a very successful person. The people he's associated with will also be a positive, engaging bunch. However, beneath the surface lies a business, if it can be called that, which is a sham and a waste of time.

See all comments on this post here:
http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/will-amway-make-you-annoying/#comments

Pigs Don't Know Pigs Stink?

  I recently came across some (older) comments on a blog indicating that they had recently heard comments about "Pigs don't know pigs stink". This stems from a tape recorded by a WWDB diamond named Dave Severn. The slogan was quite popular when I was an IBO and I'm sure that some Amway IBOs still toss around the phrase. It was basically used to describe people who weren't in Amway. They worked hard at their jobs, but they were "broke" and weren't getting anywhere.  At least, that's what Amway IBOs thought.  

At least the Amway IBOs (who were also broke) were doing something about their financial situation (Amway!). So, the ignorant rest of the population didn't know any better, thus the term pigs don't know pigs stink. Having been out of the business and having done a great deal of research about Amway and the Amway groups such as WWDB and BWW, I can say the exact same thing about IBOs. IBOs don't know IBOs stink. 

Of course, I don't mean that literally, but business building IBOs order their products each month. They pay for their standing orders and attend all the functions. They try to recruit new prospects and they use all the catchy phrases taught by their upline or off a cd. They are very likely losing money each and every month, all the while thinking they are becoming successful and better or nicer people. 

At the end of the year, they sometimes suffer massive losses in the thousands or tens of thousands because purchasing all of the tools and training materials add up to a tidy sum of cash after a while. At the functions, they smile and act positive, even when they are losing their shirts. Upline will edify their dedication and teach them two very important, but self-serving advice. They will teach IBOs to never quit, and that if IBOs quit or fail, it is always their own fault, even if they did everything upline taught them. In this manner, upline removes any responsibility for the IBO's failure. Ironically, upline is quick to accept responsibility for any success (even if there is little). 

All the while, IBOs are attending all the meetings, doing all the steps they have been taught. They act alike and in many cases, look alike. Most of them also share a common result. They are losing money, and many are losing lots of it. They are simply taught to ignore the losses and to remain positive. Most people eventually figure it out and walk away from Amway. Most will never mention their involvement again and because many are sponsored by friends and family, will never file any formal complaint or discuss their displeasure. The IBOs continue to associate with their positive and active fellow IBOs, all the while their bank accounts are shrinking and transferring funds to upline. Pigs don't know pigs stink indeed.

P.S.  I also recall one of Dave Severn's stories where he seemed to frown on investing,  He said he recalled a stock broker calling him with a "hot tip" on a stock.  He laughed and told the story of how he said (not verbatim), "Look here Ace, I'll invest as much as you are".  As if to imply that the broker was unwilling to invest in his own recommendation.  It seems as if Amway diamonds didn't want people to invest because it would tie up disposable income that could otherwise be spent on tools and functions.  After I left Amway, I started to invest in the big tech companies and I'm doing quite well these days.  :)

It's sad that diamonds are so self serving and greedy that they give advice that not only scams their faithful downline, but to discourage investing and/or college for Amway is disgusting and insidious.

Diamonds don't know diamonds stink?

If You Work It?

 The Amway business works if you work it! That's what many Amway enthusiasts will claim. I do not believe that is true and I will further explain in this post. Many IBOs who claim that the business works are usually new and are unable to show any evidence that the business works, except perhaps to show a photocopied check from an upline diamond or the like. To date, no Amway IBO who posts on this blog as shown evidence that Amway works. And there is no evidence that hard work results in Amway success.   Maybe it works if you're a diamond selling tools and functions to a closed audience.  Maybe it works if you deceive your faithful downline.  

Let me make a disclaimer that some people might be able to make significant money from Amway, but most of those folks are usually tenured diamonds who are almost in an exclusive club. There is only a short list of new diamonds that I know of in the US, and I have heard that even these new diamonds may have had legs in other countries. It would seem that Amway is not growing much in the US and Canada. Also of note, Amway does not release figures that are separate between Amway North America and the rest of their overseas operations, so information is limited.

Ok, so Amway enthusiasts claim that the business works if you work it. Business in its simplest form is selling a product or service for a profit. Yet many IBOs spend so much of their time doing other things, as advised by their upline "mentors" who sell them training materials that take up much of their valuable time. Listening to audios/cds, attending functions, reading books, and other training activities not only costs the IBO money, but takes up valuable time in non income producing activities. Nobody makes sales reading books or attending seminars. Inviting people to see "the plan" may be a way to help generate volume but with Amway's reputation, even this is a hit and (mostly) miss activity. 

Many IBOs spend almost all of their time doing these activities (the work) when they could be better off not getting the training and focusing on selling the Amway products and services. Even that comes with a handicap as Amway products as a whole, costs a lot more than purchasing similar or the same products as a big retailer such as Costco or WalMart. It is why most IBOs eventually get discouraged and quit far before the promoted 2-5 year plan. 

Few people will even bother to see the plan once you mention "Amway" and for those who are open minded and motivated to register end up having to dead with a hard to sell opportunity along with high priced common commodities such as soap, vitamins and energy drinks. It's pretty easy to see that the business does not work, even for most of those who actually work it. There are simply too many issues with the business that handicaps those brave enough to try. It seems even the fiercest defenders of Amway are unable to provide a shred of evidence that they have actually made a profit from this opportunity.

The Struggle Is Real?

 There's been much debate recently over the issue of IBOs selling products. Now of course in the IBO world, there are going to be some IBOs who are exceptional at selling products and possibly in foreign countries where Amway has not spoiled their reputation as it apparently has in North America, it might be possible to sell some products. But the experience of a typical IBO probably cannot be one where products flow to customers regularly. Now I do not wish to debate the merits of whether or not downline are considered customers as that is an endless and pointless debate because the bottom line would be that uplines are making their income on the backs of their downline, thus confirming the appearance of a product pyramid. Aside from downline, it would appear that the remaining customers are mostly sympathetic family and friends who buy a few token products.

But why do rank and file IBOs struggle to sell Amway products? Surely Amway has some decent and some good products. But in North America, Amway's goods are generic in nature but sell at premium prices. So, unless you are convinced that their quality is that great for the price, the average Joe is simply going to buy a similar product at WalMart or a Costco. Also, when you must justify and explain to potential customers that you actually provide a better value due to concentration and/or cost per use, it not only becomes labor intensive, but confusing for the average consumer. Add in the past reputation of the Amway name being associated with a scam or a pyramid and you have an extremely tough sell.

Partner stores are often used by IBOs to bring name credibility, but I wonder how many of these products are actually sold to customers. I suspect that very few products are sold because the price is not that competitive and because many consumers, like me prefer to touch and feel certain products before making a decision to buy. Even with a money back guarantee, customers don't want to be bothered with returning something via the mail. Also, the term partner store seems odd because Amway IBOs sell partner store goods, but "partner" stores don't sell Amway products. The relationship is not a two-way street, in other words.

Also, while Amway recently started to market their opportunity and goods with national advertising, I believe the advertising is more of a retention issue. IBOs can say "see, we're on TV, we must be credible". I believe it may be too late in North America. In the past. IBOs would say they had greater bonuses because Amway saved money on advertising. Thus, IBOs engaged in the most inefficient manner of moving products. They did it person to person and in the past, door to door. The reason why super bowl commercials are so expensive is because they can reach tens or hundreds of millions of people worldwide. But basically, Amway IBOs to sell the products and the opportunity, must do it one person at a time, and they must also overcome the many negative opinions that North Americans have about Amway. Amway sales have been tanking since 2013. Amway revenues have gone from 11.8 billion at its peak in 2013 and dropped each year with 8.6 billion in 2017 being the most recent numbers.

But it is for these reasons that IBOs probably cannot move many products except to some family and friends. In what REAL business can you make a sustainable living, much less fabulous wealth by selling some goods to family and friends? I can't think of any, and you are seriously misleading if you think you can do this with Amway products and earn untold wealth and riches.

Standing Ovation?

 One of the weird things I observed about Amway IBOS is how they worship the diamond as if he/she is some kind of divine being.  When you look at it logically, what has the diamond done to deserve such adulation?   The diamond qualified for the pin one time and possibly one time only.  Heck, Joecool was a 4000 pin.   Does that mean new IBOS should take counsel from me since I achieved a fairly high level?  Even if I’m not currently qualified?  Nobody knows if a diamond is currently qualified because Amway doesn't publish a list of currently qualified diamonds.  Once you earn the pin, it's yours forever, even if you have a 100 PV business, your pin will remain a diamond.

Amway doesn’t say which diamonds are still qualified, so nobody really knows.  And that is why you see former copies of bonus checks as evidence of success.  A current copy of a check would be better but still would not indicate what kinds of expenses that diamond had.  Some years back, I believe diamond club was held in Hawaii, on the island of Maui.  I managed to make contact with the hotel and they informed me that 160 people were in attendance at the event.  Now 160 was the headcount and included spouses and children.  This, the number of diamonds may have been quite small.  But what is telling is that only qualified diamonds get invited to diamond club.

A good example would be my WWDB upline diamond who probably qualified diamond in the 1980’s.  Back then there was no internet, and the business was very different than it is today.  That diamond also filed for chapter 7 bankruptcy in 2009 or so but is still revered as having superior financial acumen.  But based on what track record?  

For some reason the audiences just assume that the diamond is successful and wealthy without really knowing the financial status of these leaders.   For all we know these diamonds are paying mortgages and in debt like the rest of the US population.  Why would it be any different when these diamonds show off a lifestyle of excess and even encourage IBOS to get into debt to purchase tools and function tickets.  If you ask upline to verify their financial claims, you’ll be told it’s none of your business.

If your diamond’s financials are none of your business, then you should not consider displays of wealth as any kind of evidence of success.  More likely that diamond lives check to check like much of the rest of the population.  What other conclusion is logical?

Reaping And Sowing?

 One of the things that many prospects and IBOs believe is that they will make an investment of time and money into their Amway business and that they will eventually get their time and money back in such abundance that they can walk off their jobs and walk the beaches of the world while living in luxury because of lifelong residual income, all because of the Amway opportunity. For IBOs and prospects of Amway, I wonder if any of you can actually name even five people who have actually accomplished this? How about two? Keep in mind that there have probably been tens of millions of people who also wanted this and tried Amway and the systems, only to find that reality paints a different picture.

Many people they will reap what they sow. While that may sound true, I guess the next logical question is what are you sowing? Are you deceptive when prospecting people to see the plan? Are you having to justify and fudge high-priced Amway product comparisons that are not favorable? Are you actually selling goods to customers and actually qualifying for your Amway bonus or are you self-consuming and getting others to do the same? Do you have a negative opinion (broke losers) about people who don't join Amway or are not interested in seeing the plan? Do you now think your boss and your job are evil? Do you leave your kids at home to attend endless numbers of functions and meetings? You reap what you sow correct? The question is what kinds of seeds are you actually planting?  Seeds of deceit and outright lies?

I wonder what some WWDB diamonds were sowing? At least the ones who had their homes foreclosed, and one in particular was involved in chapter 7 bankruptcy proceedings.  Are they reaping what they sowed? What about the WWDB diamonds who got divorced? What were they sowing? Are IBOs sure about wanting to make the claim of reaping and sowing? And yes, Joecool the person also has his own flaws, but the difference is that I am not on stage proclaiming to be flawless and selling tools to IBOs for a profit.  Many diamonds would imply when they speak (and profit from) their tens of thousands of downlines. I am not earning a living by deceiving people and profiting from people I am supposed to be helping. But your upline diamonds are. Take a close look at the fruit on the WWDB tree.

Not Enough Effort?

 I believe there's a gigantic myth spread by upline that people who ultimately fail in Amway simply didn't work/try hard enough, or didn't put in enough time, and ended up quitting too early. Based on personal experience and observations of others, I truly believe that to be NOT true. Now I agree that many IBOs do little or nothing, but generally, these folks don't complain, and their losses are generally limited to the signup fee or kit. Most do not seek refunds, file complaints and simply chalk up the loss as a learning experience.  

I myself, put in some months of very dedicated work towards building a business. I had a decent sized group and was headed for platinum. But the fact of the matter is that even though my group was growing, I wasn't making a net profit. I seriously doubt that any of my downline made a net profit, primarily because of the business and tools expenses. I drove the miles; I showed the plan, and I attended all the meetings and functions. I did what I was advised by my upline. My net profit at 4000 PV was little to nothing with a net loss when all the business expenses were factored i such as gas money, functions, standing orders, etc.  

My upline also did a lot of work, and he put in the hours, drove the miles and attended everything. He told me his net profit was not any of my business. (If you hear that, it's a huge red flag). I suspect my upline and sponsor also broke even or lost money despite working very hard and doing what they were advised to. I later read the assessment made by the Wisconsin attorney general Bruce Craig, who examined the tax returns of (I believe it was platinums/direct distributors) of IBOs in his state and they averaged a net annual loss of $900. While the study is a bit dated, the business has not really changed except that there are more expenses and tools associated with the business today, than back when the study occurred.  

I also question the validity of Amway defenders who claim that people did not work hard enough or did not run their business properly. I seriously doubt that anyone has done a comprehensive study of people who actually made an effort to build an Amway business, to determine why they may not have the success they desired. However, I can make my own conclusions. Many IBOs are taught to buy from themselves with little sales. They're taught to buy tools, even when they aren't making progress in the business. People who are struggling in Amway are often told that they need to sponsor more people, show more plans. (A struggling business opens new stores to improve business?).

In my opinion, hard work and success in Amway have little relationship. Sure, there is work needed. But working hard doesn't assure you of anything. You need to be able to develop a following. Just working hard has nothing to do with long term sustainable success. There are plenty of examples of hard workers who lost money. What I believe happens, is that IBOs get excited, get started and contact people and show plans. But Amway has the reputation of "pyramid" or "scam" and people quickly get discouraged and stop building the business. Those who try to sell Amway goods find that a month's supply of multi vitamins ($80) double x is a tough sell, or $50 cases of bottled water. They also get discouraged and quit.  

Only those who can somehow recruit and replace those quit end up having a chance to grow their group large enough to sell them tools, which then makes selling Amway products less important. But I don't buy for a minute that people simply do not succeed in Amway primarily because they don't work hard or smart enough. I challenge anyone to prove that a lack of work is the reason for Amway failure. The system is designed for only a few to succeed. Examine the 6-4-2, there is 1 platinum and 78 downline, and that's assuming everyone "did some work".

IBOs fail in vast quantities, but not because they don't do any work or try hard enough.

Something For Nothing?

 In my opinion, Amway is a pyramid. They are not illegal, but still a pyramid. The reason why they remain legal, apparently is because they do not pay anyone for recruiting downline. But most everyone has been or knows someone who was recruited by a zealous Amway IBO. The emphasis of most active IBOs is on recruiting and much of the teaching by upline is on techniques to recruit and/or how to talk to people without tipping their hat to reveal the Amway name. Most IBOs are not very good at this, and they stick out like sore thumbs in many cases. It's also comical when uplines teach crazy antics, like how some IBOs use to deny that Amway and Quixtar were even remotely connected.

One of the reasons IBOs use to justify their involvement in the pyramid is that they can earn more than their sponsor. While that might be true in some cases, it is only because everyone below the emerald or diamond level is basically expendable, or a slave in the pyramid. There are many IBOs who achieve fairly high levels who quit or had upline wreck their businesses. Thus, even platinums are expendable to upline. In fact, an upline might make more money by removing the platinum. For new IBOs or recruits, do you really believe that you are going to ever surpass your current upline diamond or higher? If you believe that, you are sadly mistaken.

And for those who dream of achieving diamond and walking the beaches of the world. How do you think you can ever achieve that? You don't get something for nothing unless someone gets nothing for something. In order for you to receive income for little or no efforts, your downline IBOs must keep purchasing products and replacing IBOs who quit. If your downlines cannot keep up with the attrition rate, your business will collapse in a hurry. Come to think of it, if a diamond can walk away and collect a large income forever, why hasn't anyone done it? I mean we still see crown ambassadors still busy working functions and I don't know of any who walked away to spend their lives jet setting on the beaches of the world.

The sad reality is that you see new faces at meetings and functions, just as often as you see familiar faces disappear. With that kind of attrition rate, you may have to work even harder at the higher levels just to keep your business status quo. In Egypt, the slaves built the pyramids. Do you have enough slaves? What many Egyptologists find amazing is how the Egyptians were able to motivate the slaves to keep on going, doing backbreaking work all of their lives. The same can be said of a diamond level business (or higher)

Mentors Or Crooks?

 One of the things our upline told us when I was an IBO was how much they cared about their groups. My sponsor told us that these wonderful diamonds could be anywhere, doing anything, but they chose to be at these functions out of love and loyalty to the group. At the time, upline insisted that nobody earned any money from the sale of support materials. I wonder how many of these wonderful upline mentors would have been at the function if they lost money or made no profit from the functions?  And since when do mentors get compensation from those that they mentor?  Isn't the relationship more like a paid consultant?

Shortly after I left the business, the lies about the tool income became exposed and the internet also made it easy for prospects to find out this information. Of course, many upline started to talk about tool income, although there is still a great deal of secrecy about the tools and the income generated by tools.  Allegedly one gets involved and shares some tool profits at the platinum level, although no formal agreement exists as far as I know.  Your ability to share in tool profits would likely be determined by your loyalty to upline.

What I find humorous is how some IBOs actually think their upline is some kind of mentor to be followed. As time passes, we are finding that many diamonds are fakes and frauds. There are many "former" diamonds, clearly debunking the myth of lifelong residual income. We are finding diamonds who divorce, contrary to the teaching that Amway saves marriages. Diamonds who are in financial difficulty and some in apparent bankruptcy.  These are documented and can be found with a google search.

Now these diamonds are no different than the rest of society, but they made much profit in selling themselves as being "above" the crowds. That they were financially well versed, that their marriages were built on a foundation of rock. That their lives are in order and that these diamonds are to be honored and copied by their downline faithful. But slowly and surely, they are being exposed as hypocrites and we are finding that they are not living large and debt free as they claimed. They are being exposed as a bunch of crooks with nice suits and nice smiles. It is unfortunate that some of these diamond leaders are suffering misfortunes, but I have trouble drumming up sympathy for them at this point.

So, is your upline a mentor to be followed or just a cheap crook?

The Real Scam?

 A lot of people come and go in Amway, but many of those who come and go don't even notice the scam. They get sold on what they believe is a business opportunity that they can maksome money at, or at the very least save some money on products that they would normally buy anyway. If they do it right, they can possibly make some "real" money and with some had work, you can build it right and have the option one day of walking away from Amway and living off ongoing residual income from Amway. It sounds reasonable and therein lies the scam.

For years, I have challenged people to name 2-3 people, aside from the Amway owners, who joined, built the business "right" and was able to walk away and retire with ongoing residual income, enough to be financially free forever. Not a single person has been able to name and confirm that even a single person has done this. I believe it's all a lie and part of the scam. Amway's distributor force turns over about 50% each year. How can you build a residual income empire when half of your downline quits each year? I believe Amway diamonds trade their 9-5 jobs for the night shift. They work at night and into the morning hours because they are working to replace people who quit and to support downline platinums who might struggle or fail to re-qualify for that level. If upline says they are working for the love of their downline, I call BS on that. If walking away and enjoying life was an option, why hasn't anyone chosen it?

Now you could argue that a diamond's "work" isn't that bad and they aren't reporting to a boss. And that would be true, but I imagine the pressure of churning people in and out to keep qualifying can be stressful in itself. If you live on an island like me, you can eventually have trouble finding new people to work with. In 1997 or so, there were a bunch of diamonds in Hawaii and they all moved to the mainland. Now I"m not sure why but my upline diamond was Harimoto, who loved the ocean and the beaches. Yet he moved to Washington state. I believe they needed new grounds to mine, just like gold miners.

The next part of the scam is how IBOs will tell you about Amway's generous money back guarantee. 100% they'll tell you. What they don't tell you is that the guarantee is only on some of the products and the sign up fee. The cds, books, voicemail and functions are not sold or run by Amway. And these expenses can be very significnt over a period of time. IBOs and prospects need to know this. You can lose thousands and get back pennies on the dollar asking for a refund on the sign up fee and perhaps a few products. Another piece of the scam.

Also, IBOs and prospects are often shown only the very best case scenario (such as going diamond) but not told that your chance of being struck by lightning is much higher than your chance of going diamond, even though going diamond is not a random event. A real life and likely scenario is getting in and trying hard for a while, and then quitting with some business losses. At least if you know this and still try anyway, you will have done so with full disclosure.

Lastly, it's insidious in my opinion, for upline to tell you to trust them and to do as they say, and then turn around and tell IBOs that failure is their responsibility. That they didn't work hard enough or do thing just right. That sure isn't what they are preaching when recruiting you into the business. They are saying how sharp you are and how you're likely to tear up the business. But it's just another facet of the scam. I've outlined the parts of the opportunity that I believe are scams, but I'm sure it's not limited to my point of view.

Good luck if you read this and join anyway.

Humorous Amway Tidbits?

Some of the most hilarious quips and quotes that I've seen on this blog over the years.  LOL.  Enjoy!  

"Strictly speaking, all make money, regardless. Zero is a real quantity. So, making zero money is like making zero money for it is measurable. If zero were irrelevant, why does the decimal system make use of this quantity? Just as the digit one has its virtues so does zero. Hopefully though, you are looking at more than zero if you like to play with numbers. If you don't, zero is a perfect, neutral choice. But don't complain about it to others! It's your choice!"

"Plus people get annoyed because the Amway people they know try to recruit them and sell them things, taking advantage of personal relationships to build their business."

"just about anything they can peddle out the door to the sellers who purchase it at inflated prices who then make money when the people under them sell the junk to somebody else who has been swindled with the "dream" of SCAMway. It is a pyramid scheme but they get around that with a few legal manuvers. They hold these giant pay your own way in rallies that consist of a bunch of oversexed hair sprayed bozo's manipulating people with motivational speeches."

" So he comes over and, you guessed it, tried to sell us on amway, both buying the products and becoming one of his sales "associates". We pretty much asked him to leave as politely as we could. Yes, this really happened and yes, we complained to the school. Amway people are some of the most brainwashed cultish people I have ever talked to. Right up there with boshbots"

"Another guy saying the economy and stock market were going to collapse and our only hope for the future is Amway since 401Ks and IRAs will all become worthless. Most of the tapes were full of religious right bilge too. I dropped out after finding out how much money the DeVos family donates to Repugs."

"While all you broke losers are going to work I will be sleeping in. I will make sure that I hire you to clean my toliets. And don't worry I will make sure that you get good benefits"

"The thing is, is that the higher-ups don't make their money on selling products, they make their money on selling audio tapes to the newbies, and intermediates. You know, the kind that supposedly will help you "sell better" ect... Anywho, that's my experience. They're all really just creepy."

"Early 90s. Friend of mine keeps hinting about his new "business," and how I need to "get on board." He is very coy and will not tell me the name of the company. Wife and I spend next two hours telling him, "This sounds just like that Amway crap," proceed to tell him every horror story we know about Amway, and essentially grind the Amway name into the ground. He leaves and I run into his brother a few days later. His bro asks me, "So, has my brother tried to sell you that soap stuff?" "Soap stuff?", I ask. "Yeah. He's selling that Amway crap." Never heard a peep from my friend about his new "business" again."

"Just admit that you didn't have the 'balls ' to build this business.
I going to be retiring in the next 6 mths making $5000 a mth. So eat that crybabies!"

"Yes, I am! My first cheque was $ 7.85 and my second cheque in going to be more. Why? Leverage! I just signed up my first business partner as part of my up until now, a one man team. Besides, he has someone who wants to sign up too. That's exciting news! I change some of my buying habits and I help others build business by teaching them how to do the same."

"For your information buddy, my last check was $ 15.66. That is more than eight, don't you think? So yeah, you can pass by $ 15.66 too on your way to financial freedom for you are not stuck at $ 15.66 just because that's the top money one can possibly ever make!"

Gambling Or Investing?

  One of the biggest loads of garbage told by upline diamonds was that the stock market was essentially gambling.  As if buying shares in a solid company was like betting on a hand of blackjack or red or black on a spin of the wheel on roulette.  This is extremely dangerous teaching on the part of the diamonds.  I often wonder if the diamonds themselves are invested into the stock market themselves? Let’s face it, for an average middle class person, investing at a young age can be a means to grow wealth in the long run.

I can agree that day trading can be a form of gambling because you aren’t giving the stock and the company to overcome short term setbacks and problems.  But let me give you food for thought about something I figured out a in the late 1990s.  It seemed like every so often when you read the news, Bill Gates kept getting wealthier and wealthier.  It wasn’t because he was putting his money in a bank.  He owned billions of dollars in Microsoft stock.  Having had that revelation, I bought shares of Microsoft as well and I haven’t sold a share yet although I am now retired.   The stock took some damage due to the covid 19 hysteria but has recovered nicely since April 2020.  If you look back historically, Microsoft stock outperforms the broad market itself, averaging (even now) returns of more than 20% annually, which means you can double your investment every 3-4 years.  

Now I’m not claiming to be uber rich because of that investment, but I have a fairly nice small fortune because of it.  I also own shares in other companies as well (such as Nvidia) but I won’t discuss that here.  I do recall a tape made by a diamond named Dave Severn where he downplayed investing and said a broker gave him a hot tip on a stock and he said something like (not verbatim) “listen here Ace, I’ll put up as much money as you are”.  As if stockbrokers aren’t willing to invest in their own advice.  Or as if stock brokers were charlatans.  

Let’s look on the other side of the coin.  Diamonds advise prospects and IBOS to invest in tools and functions. I’d say that’s a much greater gamble since you can research Amway’s own numbers on their website and extrapolate that only about 1/4 of 1 percent ever reach platinum and out of those, only a small fraction ever reach diamond.  I’d venture to say confidently that you can invest in most companies with a proven track record, and you’ll make positive gains in the stock as well as dividends in many cases.

Smart investing is not gambling but I’d say pouring money into an Amway business plus buying into the tools and functions gives you a worse chance of making a net profit than a day in Las Vegas.   Don’t believe me?  Who are among the richest men in the world?  Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk, Warren Buffet?   They didn’t make their money with Amway.  While the Amway owners are billionaires, you can note that they are not Amway distributors.  They own the MLM company, which can be lucrative when you have armies of distributors working for commission only and no benefits such as medical insurance.

Serious food for thought.

Winners And Losers?

 One of the things that my upline taught, and I believe is still taught today in various groups is that winners join Amway and losers do not. Or that you were a winner because you were doing something to better your financial future and those who didn't were losers. or broke minded. Of course, the upline who said this had no knowledge about those who were not in Amway. Some of them may already have been financially sound or may have been doing something to better their financial future. I'm not sure why these uplines, who promote "positive", had to resort to calling people losers simply because they did not agree that Amway was the greatest thing since sliced bread.

In many games or sporting events, there will be someone or a team that wins the game and someone or a team that loses the game. Losing a game doesn't make you a loser and certainly, a team that wins the game would not say the losing team were losers. Can you imagine a pro football team's coach taking the podium after a game and saying his team won because the other team was a bunch or broke minded gutless losers? That would never happen, yet we see that frequently in the Amway/IBO world. The owner of Amway, Rich DeVos had once said in a recorded message that just because people do not agree with you (paraphrased) about Amway, does not make them losers and that IBOs should not call people losers.

In all of this, people's jobs are also criticized. That a job stands for "just over broke" or "jackass of the boss" and other blurbs. Many IBO's goals and dreams consist of ditching their job so they can sleep all day and live a life of luxury. Ironically, it is most IBO's jobs that continue to produce income so they can pay their bills and feed their family. It is also an IBO's job that funds their Amway and AMO expenses such as product purchases and functions and voicemail, etc. Without having a job, most people could not even join Amway or pay for any tools. Sadly, most IBOs won't make any money in Amway either, and will have to continue to work at their jobs. I do not believe that someone earning an honest living working a job is a loser. Ironically, the folks calling people losers are often not even netting a profit from their Amway business!

Yes, in this business or the sports world, there will be winners and there will be losers. The question is whether you are the one who is allowed to be the judge of who is and who isn't. I would also suggest that IBOs are completely shutting down potential future business by their behavior. What if I went to a store to purchase something but the item was not available on that particular day, so I don't purchase anything and leave. As I leave, the store owner says I am a loser for not buying something there. Will I go back? Very unlikely. If an IBO truly sees themselves as a store owner, all prospects should be seen as potential business, whether future or present. If your upline tells you that people not interested are losers, you should hand him a mirror.

Am-Way To Retirement?

 One of the things Amway leaders do is to disparage people with jobs. Oh, they would say we needed people to wait on our tables and clean our toilets, but in general, jobs were put down and basically the group was told that Amway is their best chance at achieving financial freedom, giving them the ability to flush their jobs. Ironically, IBO's jobs are what funds their Amway businesses. Most IBOs would be out of business within weeks if not for their job income funding their Amway businesses. The upline gets people to dislike to even despise their jobs. I remember an upline saying if you wouldn't do your job for free, then you don't like it that much. But to that, the same can be said about Amway right?

The key selling point appears to be the 2-5 years of part time work rather than working a job for 30 - 40 years and then retiring on a pension or social security which may or may not be there when you retire. This plants a fear in people about the future and then the Amway opportunity is presented in a positive light because the Amway opportunity comes with a low start up cost. What uplines do not mention is how the opportunity can become a money pit as the monthly defacto 100 to 300 PV quota starts to add up. It is my guess that if people only bought items they truly needed, these IBOs would likely move 100 PV every three months, unless they are actively selling goods to non IBO customers (which is not that common IMO).

When an IBO finally agrees to register, it is then that the hidden costs are revealed. Many uplines will introduce voicemail, standing orders and functions and present these tools as vital to IBO success. Most new IBOs don't know better and feel subtle pressure to conform and give it a try. Some upline may loan some tools to downline in the beginning but evemtually, the IBO will be encouraged to be a "serious" business owner who should be purchasing their own tools to loan to their downline and the cycle goes on.

If you examine some version of the Amway recruitment plan, you will see that most active IBOs are at the 100 PV level, which will reward you with a monthly bonus of about $10 or so. If that same IBO subscribes to the tools system, than IBO will likely be losing over $100 a month not including the product purchases. And because many IBOs have been convinced that working a job is so horrible, that they can be convinced that this condition of losing money is temporary and that untold wealth is right around the corner. Sadly, for most, this condition is the norm and even the sponsorship of a few downline, the losses continue to mount. Yet many are convinced that this is better than a job.

There's no retirement in Amway. Over the years, not a single Amway defender could name and provide evidence of a single person who built Amway, and walked away to enjoy massive residual income. Diamonds are forever in that they work forever, never retiring because if they stopped working, their income would stop. And if I may add, portraying a diamond lifestyle is a very expensive endeavor. There is no Am-Way to retirement.

Ironically, a job allows people to pay their monthly bills, feed their families and many people enjoy their work and co workers. While upline leaders may convince you otherwise, it is this very same excuse upline leaders use when asked why they are still working instead of walking the beaches of the world collecting massive amounts of residual income. I would encourage IBOs to truly analyze their efforts in Amway and determine if it is beneficial to your finances. In most cases, your Amway efforts ONLY benefits your upline's finances. For most who get involved, the Amway opportunity is not better than a job. Be careful!

Walk The Beaches?

 So many Amway IBOs apparently get involved in Amway because they are under the impression that one day they will get rich and live a life of ease and luxury.  That much is clear. The uplines are smart enough, though, to say the right thing such as Amway is not get rich quick. By doing this, the new IBOs or prospects can think they are in a legitimate business because they have been told it is not a get rich quick scheme. In fact, they may even be told that Amway is hard work. But the bottom line is that they must have been told they will eventually get rich or that they will make it if they will only follow the system.  Of course, the system is not free, and is the reason why most IBOs who get involved in the system wind up with a net loss for their business efforts.

By saying that Amway is not get rich quick, the upline can also hook you into the tools systems for several years. They will say you need tools, just as a carpenter needs a saw and a hammer. But an Amway IBO's role is simple. Sell products, buy products, sponsor downline. You wouldn't need a 500 page manual and a bunch of cds to learn how to turn on a television would you? Yet so many people get sucked into functions and standing orders under the false idea that these are investments into your business. But still, people will do this because they have been sold on the idea that they will eventually get rich in Amway. 2-5 years to achieve financial freedom seems like a get rich (quick) scheme to me. 

I may be repeating some of these questions ad nauseum, but it should reveal an answer that IBOs and prospects need. Where are the people who built their business right in 2-5 years and chose the option of walking away and enjoying financial freedom while the money keeps rolling in? In over 50 years of existence, I don't know of anyone, save for Amway's owners, who can walk away and have significant income. Also, if this were an IBO benefit, why doesn't Amway list this as a benefit? Maybe it doesn't exist? Maybe it's just a myth?  Maybe upline is just lying?

Do you really believe that all the diamonds could be anywhere in the world with anyone they choose, but they simply choose to be at your function because they love you? Isn't it more likely that all those diamonds at your function are there because they love your money (from ticket sales)? Seriously, if all the diamonds could be walking the beaches of the world with unlimited money rolling in, I'm sure some of them would choose that option instead of being in Edmonton or Portland for a Dream Night in January.   Why wouldn't they want to be in some tropical location enjoying Mai Tais on the beach?

If you believe you truly will get rich in Amway, remember that Amway says the average active IBO earns $202 a month. If you do get rich in Amway one day, you;ll have many downline losing money in order for you to be successful. Can you get rich in Amway? For most I seriously doubt it. You are more likely to fill your garage with stuff and lose money from attending functions than the possibility of getting rich in a person to person business.  Even those who make money in Amway do so at the expense of their downline, not because "everyone succeeds".

Freedom?

 Financial Freedom! That was one of the major battle cries I heard constantly when I was recruited for the Amway business. You gain control of time and money by creating residual or passive income. That is true financial freedom. You wake up at noon, no job, and just do whatever you please, whenever you please. I remember the speaker saying that broke/unemployed people also had freedom, but it was different because they were broke and could not afford to go golfing or do other activities that required money on a regular basis. 

I am assuming that this is still the case for many IBOs. Of course, upline leaders may toss in a disclaimer that you don't get rich quick as an IBO, but the pitch apparently still contains the financial freedom and residual income theme, based on my experiences with IBOs. IBOs still think they will be rich. Also, 2-5 years sounds like "get rich quick" to me. 

But hey, financial freedom would be a great thing, don't get me wrong. Who wouldn't want to be 35 years old with enough cash to never have to work again? I mean I could spend some time imagining how fun that would be. It would also be fun to imagine what you would do with all the cash if you hit the powerball lottery as well. But for the starry eyed IBOs, I simply have a few questions for you to ponder. A few realistic questions that you should be asking yourself. The answers to these questions will tell you a lot.

1. Who in your group or upline truly has achieved financial freedom? Have you seen their financials or simply a display of wealth such as pictures of mansions and fancy cars? Mansions and fancy cars could just be a massive pile of debt. Not too long ago, there apparently were diamonds who had their homes foreclosed, and a triple diamond who was in chapter 7 bankruptcy proceedings. Find out if anyone in your group/upline has actually achieved the success that they are using to recruit you. Also, if they are financially free, why do they work at function after function? Traveling and speaking might not be a traditional job, but it is still work, nonetheless.  If you need to be somewhere at a particular time, and doing it for money, you are not free.

2. Even if you find someone who is retired and golfing everyday because of Amway residual income, ask yourself what the likelihood is that you will be able to achieve the same results. If diamonds are still working, what chance do you have of success if you are new or experienced in Amway, and have few or no downline. More than likely, your chance of winning the lottery will be greater than your chance of achieving a significant residual income from your Amway business. Also, I don't know of any Amway retirees who built their business once and walked away with any significant residual income from Amway. Do you?

Time And Money?

 Time and money. When you control both, you are financially free. At least that's how the Amway business was pitched to me as a prospect. It made sense at the time. If you have enough money, then you don't have to have a job and go to work every day. Having enough money allowed you to control your time. It sounded like a great deal to sleep late every day and not have any financial difficulties. It sounds so simple. Join Amway, 2-5 years and there you are. But can anyone name a diamond who did the 2-5 years and walked away to enjoy financial freedom? I can't think of a single one. I did see diamonds and crowns quitting or dying on the job.

But for most people, joining Amway (and the systems)ironically robs you of what you desire most. Time and money. For those wanting to build a business, you may be told you need to invest in your business, and while that may be true, I do not believe there is any bonafide evidence that can support the relationship between the investment of time and money into the Amway business and earning a significant income. Many people have invested years and thousands of dollars (or much more) into the business only to end up with nothing or massive losses. My sponsor was a physician who spent many days away from his practice (lost income) and his oldest child (son) probably didn't see him very much since he was out showing the plan every night. You can make more money, but you can't ever get back lost time.

Diamonds give the appearance of being filthy rich with nothing to do but golf and go shopping but we are now seeing evidence that diamonds may not be all that. Home foreclosures, bankruptcy, former diamonds speaking out, diamonds moving their groups out of Amway, diamonds possibly selling their homes and downsizing. I believe that there are possibly many - a - diamond who is in financial difficulty, and they have not escaped the tough economy as they may have implied in a meeting. Many Americans are living in debt. Why would diamonds who show off a lavish lifestyle be any different? Seriously, think about this very carefully.

Also, if diamonds were so free and filthy rich as they like to portray, why don't any of the bigger pins ever walk away from the business and live on the beaches of the world that they like to talk about? Why are they always attending and running functions? I am guessing that most of them are working these functions - because they have to. I suspect that some of these diamonds are in debt trying to portray a lifestyle that they truly cannot afford. A diamond lifestyle seems to be one of luxury and excess But can a few hundred thousand dollars a year provide that? It's clear that even many professional athletes who make bank, wind up broke or in debt within 5 years of retirement. Maybe that's why diamonds can never retire. But they pretend to "love" their downline and keep working?

If you are joining Amway to gain more time and money, I urge you to make sure you are keeping track to see if you are gaining time and money, but if you look carefully, you will probably find that what you desire more of, is what you actually have less of. That is, time and money.

Don't Quit That Job?

 So many IBOs have grandiose dreams of untold wealth, financial freedom. They think they will "build it once' and sit back on the beaches of the world sipping exotic drinks while the 6 figure checks keep coming in the mail. Sure, it's a nice thought, but not a single IBO I have encountered can name a single IBO who achieved diamond, and walked away from the business to enjoy freedom while the money pours into their bank accounts. It is very likely that nobody like this exists. I suppose someone could go diamond and walk away from the business and still earn some bonuses, but very quickly, that business would likely fall out of qualification and the bonuses would shrink to nothing very quickly. Also, to earn bonuses, I believe an IBO needs to have side volume exceeding 2500 PV, which is roughly $7500 monthly in personal group volume. With normal attrition, it's easy to see how a diamond business can fall apart faster than a cheap suit without maintenance.

I also see and hear many Amway IBOs popping off about how someone in their upline is earning $60,000 a year or more. While it may seem like a nice income to someone who has a low paying or entry level job, that income is gross and may not leave much left after taxes and associated business expenses. Even a diamond with an average income of $150,000 in a year likely has a very low monthly income from Amway as much of that income comes in the form of an annual bonus. As a former emerald once told me, you needed to budget out that annual bonus or you could be in financial trouble later in the year, if Amway is your sole source of income.

Also, you may have seen diamond showing off sports cars and other displays of wealth. My former LOS, WWDB has a function called "Dream nite" where they show off lavish displays of wealth. Well, it is my informed guess that most diamonds cannot afford the lifestyles and toys that they show off in these functions. If you do the math, you can see that after taxes and other expenses, a diamond lifestyle is likely to be quite ordinary. Normally, nobody would care about this but since diamonds use this display of wealth to recruit IBOs and to sell tools, it is significant for IBOs to know. What likely happens is the most tenured diamond may have some nice trappings and the slides will feature the goodies owned or rented by a diamond, as if all diamonds live the same way.

While it is great for someone to have dreams and goals, it is also important to have achievable goals. It is simply impossible for a room of IBOs to go diamond and to earn the kind of income that is shown in "the plan". Amway recruiters will show you "what's possible", but not "what's likely". To put perspective on that, it's "possible" that you can start a software company that puts Microsoft out of business, but it's not likely. It's possible for you to win the lottery, but not likely. My advice to IBOs is not to quit your day jobs - ever. Your dreams and goals can be accomplished in many ways, but it is unlikely to be achieved with an Amway business.

Your Amway Education?

 Many Amway IBOs justify their involvement in the system of cds, tapes, books and seminars by comparing it to college. They claim they need this education and that it is much cheaper when compared to a college or university. Of course, this is the upline propaganda that IBOs are fed, much like the concept that a job is a bad idea. While college tuition has increased greatly in recent years, there are still ways to fund college in affordable ways. Sure, you may not get the college of your choice, but you can still get educated. And it is a fact that college grads do better financially than non-college grads.

In college, it is true that not everyone graduates, but approximately half of those who start college end up graduating. Those who do not graduate still benefit from their education on a year to year or course by course basis. When you are job seeking, a college degree will give you more options than those who don't educate. This claim cannot be made by Amway IBOs. The education an IBO receives by seminars and cds do not even equate to success in Amway, much less in other venues in life. Only a small fraction of IBOs ever reach platinum, which supposedly is the break-even point. So as an IBO, you have less than one half of a one percent chance to break even as compared to approximately a 50% chance of graduating college.

Also, once you graduate and receive your degree/diploma, it is complete. Your Amway education is never ending. And it is never ending because your Amway education is a primary source of income for the emeralds and diamonds. How much training do you really need to buy, sell and sponsor downline, which is what the Amway business is about. Also, there are many many many examples of people who reached levels as high as diamond or above who could not maintain the level. There are also many examples of diamonds who quit Amway. If there were such a thing as "residual" income, why would anyone quit when they could sit back and watch the cash roll in. I think the answer is quite obvious. Amway residual income is a myth. It's like the legend of bigfoot. Everyone's seen and heard about bigfoot but nobody has ever proven that they exist. Anyone able to prove that there's a diamond who had 6 platinums and "walked away" from Amway to collect residual income forever?

There is also no evidence (as far as I know) that your Amway related education of cds and seminars actually work. The tiny fraction of 1% of successful IBOs is not a good case for arguing the success of the system. Colleges on the other hand, has accreditation standards, which is nothing like the ineffective Amway accreditation of groups such as BWW, WWDB or Network 21. People who argue that all the "successful" diamonds used the system is like arguing that the lottery is a good financial plan because I can prove that there are "winners". In both Amway and the lottery, the winners enjoy the winnings, but the winnings come from the participants. Diamonds rake in the winnings from downline and lottery winners rake in winnings from all the lottery losers.

The fact that IBOs even dare to compare a college education to their teaching in Amway is a joke. Try telling a prospective employer about your Amway education and see what that gets you.

Justifying Failure?

 One of the things I heard as an Amway IBO was how as an average working man, we tend to justify our existence. For example, we will tell others that "I'm doing okay", at least with respect to our finances. We justify our apparent lack of finances that way. So, my upline would talk about building the business so that the money is literally pouring in. But based on my observations and some tangible evidence, we know that many diamonds and certainly those below diamond do not have money pouring in. In fact, I suspect many diamonds are in debt, and possibly living month to month. As much of a diamond's income is from annual bonuses, it's possible that a diamond's monthly bonus from Amway is quite small. It is why I have often said that many diamonds are likely living very middle class lifestyles while trying to portray a fabulous jet set lifestyle. It is why I feel that many diamonds are actually broke or near broke. When you do the math, it makes sense.

And if diamonds can get into financial difficulty, then certainly IBOs are also in trouble. Many recruits are in financial difficulty, or do not earn enough income, which is why Amway appeals to them in the first place. It is why Amway appealed to me at the time I was involved. Many are convinced that Amway will make them rich. While uplines may have said Amway is not get rich quick, the prospect must have been fed the line that they will eventually get rich, else why would anyone sign up in the first place?

But in the big picture, IBOs are no different than other people. They also justify themselves. In fact, many are taught to justify themselves. It is why I still see IBOs claiming that Amway saves marriages. One IBO recently made the age old claim that the world has a 60% divorce rate and WWDB IBOs have a 2% divorce rate. Well, I am certain that is not true. I would guess that in many cases, Amway is the very reason some couples get divorced. And actually, this would not be an issue if IBOs and their leaders would not claim it. I believe the divorce rate amongst WWDB diamonds is already higher than what these IBOs are claiming. But upline just covers up scandals and downlines ignore the lies and cover ups.

Another funny one is when IBOs claim they are helping people by building the business. How do you help someone by enrolling them in a business where they are nearly guaranteed to lose money? What do IBOs do that is helpful to others? While IBOs are at functions or prospecting, other people are doing community service projects or feeding the homeless. I challenge an IBO to explain how recruiting others into Amway is helping them. Many IBOs also believe they are nicer people as a result of their involvement with Amway. If true, then it is a nice benefit, except this is a business and a business exists to make a profit. How many would join if they were only going to accomplish everything but make money?

IBOs, are you succeeding or justifying yourselves?

Being An IBO?

 I send this message to inform Amway IBOs that they should be aware of their circumstances in business. What I mean is when you are a new IBO, it is common for you to buy/sell your 100 PV, and perhaps listen to some cds and attend meetings/functions. If you basically did what your sponsor or upline advised, you made your 100 PV bonus level and you will receive a bonus from Amway for about $10. If you did as advised by your upline/sponsor, then you likely made a name list and started contacting some potential business partners aka prospects. You're probably a bit excited because things are going as you expected. You did your part, and a bonus is on its way to your doorstep. Heck, you may have even sponsored a friend or relative because of your newly found excitement and enthusiasm. 

But what happens after a few months? If you are still doing 100 PV and have no downline, then what are the chances that you will ever achieve anything? Your excitement is wearing off and now the Amway opportunity is becoming "work". You are also starting to notice that it is starting to get expensive to continue to purchase products, many of which you never purchased before. For example, were you buying cases of energy drinks and "high end" vitamins before Amway? Did you buy $50 cases of bottled water before Amway? Supposedly their laundry soap and other cleaners are highly concentrated, therefore your consumables are the nutrition/vitamin products. 

Even if you managed to find some downline, are they duplicating what you do? Are they also moving volume and sponsoring downline? If not, what are your chances of fulfilling the 6-4-2 plan or some similar version of it. When I saw the plan, I thought it was reasonable and I was on my way to platinum. What I discovered though, is that as you progress, upline has greater expectations of you and that includes more tool purchases. (I was in WWDB). In the end, my recommended tool purchases ate up any profits I had and at the 4000 level, I was just about breaking even, which means I was at a loss when factoring in my time spent and other miscellaneous expenses such as gas money. 

Where are you at? If you've been in for more than a year, are you on schedule to become platinum or are you at 200 PV with one downline? Maybe you have a small group with 600 PV? You still aren't close to a net profit. For the vast majority of people, success is not right around the corner. What's around the corner for most is more time lost, more money expended, and no progress. If your group is now growing each and every month, you are sliding backwards. If you don't constantly have new IBOs coming into the group, you are probably stagnant. With about half of IBOs dropping out each year, keeping a group together is a tremendous task. 

IBOs, where are you at after a few months? Where are you at after a year? If you haven't gone platinum, it is nearly a certainty that it will never happen, despite what your upline might say. The facts are there, it's a matter of whether you want to believe it or not.

8-12 Hours Per Week?

 One of the myths that our upline used to, and likely still perpetuate is the silly claim that you can build an Amway mega empire on 8-12 hours per week. I'm venturing an educated guess that this number is used because while it still represents time, it is probably less hours than working a part time job. But let's take a closer look at this 8-12 hours per week.

If you listen to one (1) cd/audio per day as recommended by upline (approximately 30 - 45 minutes) and read one of their "success" books 15 minutes each day, you already close to nine hours of time used and neither of these activities produces any income for your Amway business. In fact, both activities cost you money and produce no tangible result and no income. If you spend another 15 minutes a day contacting people, you are close to 12 hours per week. Where will you find additional time to show the plan and to expand your name and contact list? What about servicing customers, at least for IBOs who actually may have some customers. If you spend 8-12 hours of non-income producing activities, how will that turn into financial freedom? The answer is simple. It doesn't. That activity primarily benefits your upline diamond who profits from selling you cds/audios or function tickets, or voicemail.

What about attending meetings and functions? These are also non income producing activities. It's no wonder the vast majority of IBOs don't make money. Their upline has them running around participating in activities that produce no income for their businesses. Ironically, there non income producing activities such as listening to a cd, produces a lot of income for certain uplines who produce and sell them. To me, it is just an elaborate game of bait and switch played by upline. Attending functions and meetings are promoted as learning activities but again, how does it benefit an IBO to spend money instead of making money?

You sell the prospect the dream of financial freedom. You tell downline that that Amway is their best chance. You tell them that you can help them and that the tools of the business (standing order, voicemail, books, functions) are the key to their success. Those who are serious enough to commit to the system likely won't quit without making some effort and will allow uplines to earn some nice profits before these downline eventually realize they aren't profitable and quit. Because many IBOs are sponsored by family and friends, you don't see many formal complaints about the business. Most people chalk it up as a life lesson and do not complain or file complaints.

But IBOs and information seekers, do not be fooled into thinking that you will create a financial empire by working 8-12 hours a week. Look at your return on investment and/or your profits and losses at the end of the month. What you will see is a consistent net loss because of the system and no profit, also because of the system.

In Defense Of Amway?

 I've been blogging for many years now and one of the conclusions I have made is that there really is no defense for debating the merits of an Amway business when the IBO is participating in a system such as WWDB or Network 21. I have no issues with IBOs who sign up and sell actual products to non-IBO customers, but these sales oriented IBOs are very rare. Most IBOs who are entrenched in a system are often focused on sponsoring downline because that is the only way an IBO can achieve certain levels such as emerald or diamond. The emerald or diamond level is the goal of many because it is allegedly the level where an IBO can "walk away" and enjoy barrels of cash rolling in for the rest of their lives. I find it ironic that even crown ambassadors keep busy schedules and have not walked away into a quiet life of retirement and uncountable amounts of money. Instead, we read about these crowns passing away while still on the (Amway) job.

In general, it would take about 100 IBOs or so to make up a platinum level business. That's 1% at best and even less when you factor in IBOs who do nothing or IBOs who start and quit. In my estimation, a very dedicated hard core IBO would only begin to break even or make a little bit of income at the 4000 PV or platinum level. Of course, your business structure would be a factor in determining how much you can earn. Sponsoring width gives you more profit and sponsoring depth allegedly gives you some stability. Thus, you could reasonably argue that about a fraction of 1% of IBOs break even or make a little bit of income. What real businessman would even consider opening a business where your chance of making a profit is less than 1%? Yes, you can argue that Amway is a business and not a game of chance, but a prudent decision also factors in your realistic chances of success.

Other factors that would make Amway unattractive is that the products are priced higher (in general) than comparable or the same products that are available at people's local retailers. Yes, Amway folks will argue quality and concentration factors, but those arguments are simply justification for the higher prices. The vast majority of people are satisfied getting cheaper prices at Walmart. And seriously, Walmart products aren't of a lesser quality than most products you get from Amway in the first place. Also, IBOs are restricted from advertising their goods, thus are relegated to person to person advertising, which is probably the least effective method of getting the word out to the masses. Higher prices and unfamiliar products results in what many groups have - IBOs who "buy from themselves" in order to earn their bonuses. Also, any bonus that is earned by most IBOs is just a partial refund on having overpaid for a product. Not to mention unless you are at a higher level in the business, your upline(s) get most of the bonus, whether they helped you or not.

Yes, it is possible for some people to make some money in Amway. Yes, some people do make some good money from Amway. It is not possible for all IBOs to make money unless they are selling products to non IBOs and we know that most IBOs don't sell anything or sell just a few items to others. We also know that the tools systems generally eat away any small bonuses IBOs earn and leave them with a net loss. For the truly dedicated IBOs, the losses can mount into thousands of dollars and more, depending on you consumption and dedication level.

Can someone make a living with Amway? The answer is that it's possible but not likely. But as to whether the Amway business and associated tools is a good idea? For that there is no reasonable defense.

Brainwashed?

 Sometimes it happens to the nicest of people and it often happens slowly and subtly. These are the signs that you are becoming indoctrinated, and you are likely annoying your friends and loved ones at this point. I hope this helps you. But seriously, the Amway IBOs begin to believe anything upline tells them and they begin to act out what they are taught and are in danger of becoming Amway zombies.  The uplines uses clever psychology in my way of looking at things.  They make small talk about things most people can agree about such as high taxes, inflation, etc.  Then they subtly slide in the talk about Amway being your best chance to stay ahead of the curve, or to even possibly get rich.  Then they convince you eventually that Amway is your only hope.  Here is the result once you get hooked;

*You're driven to recruit everyone you know. You may even resort to deception or outright lies to get people to meetings and functions.  Before you know it, your family and friends avoid you like the plague. You end up spending time at malls and other public places such as Starbucks desperately stalking and scouting for recruits. Much of your time is spent doing this activity when you're not getting more brainwashed at rah rah meetings.

*You're encouraged to develop an unreasonable, irrational zeal for the products. Even so far as to justify the quality of toilet paper or laundry detergent to call the products prestigious. You may even argue the quality of energy drinks or about phytonutrients, something you may not even know about. You even argue about concentration values in dish soap or shampoo.

*A whole bunch of demands, promises, subtle threats of failure if you don't try hard enough are made in the promotional material and motivational seminars. i.e. If you quit, you are a loser destined to die broke and unhappy. Or you let someone steal your dream. These ridiculous claims are how your upline keeps you hooked. There is constant pressure to never quit and to keep on pimping Amway to recruits.

*Because the system is touted as the way you're going to make yourself fantastically rich, you're under constant pressure to drop any conflicting or competing interests such as your bowling league or golf club. Nothing else in life has importance except for the quest of financial freedom. All activities in your life must enhance your Amway business and have an affect on your financial future. No other activities matter to you unless it affects your dream filled Amway financial future.

*Your upline soon becomes your most trusted friend. Your thoughts and feelings are shaped in part by the cds, meetings and functions.

Do you recognize these behaviors? Hopefully you aren't displaying these behaviors.

The Product Pyramid?

This is a reprint of one of my most popular articles ever.  The issues are still relevant in my opinion. 

Let me start out by saying that Amway is a very likely a perfectly legal company, and therefore I am not saying or implying that Amway is illegal. But I believe however, that the way Amway businesses are run, are like pyramids. In most groups, you will have the lowest level IBOs efforts and tool purchases being responsible for the upline bonuses and tools income. Many many IBOs are fooled into thinking that the ability to surpass your upline or that you don't get paid to recruit downline makes this a good deal. This doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of IBOs lose money. The lottery is legal in most states, but I'd say it's not a good investment for your money.

Unless you have a very rare group where actual product sales to non IBOs are sufficient to cover the costs of running your business, functions and all, then it is true that the lower level IBO's jobs are likely the source of income for the uplines. How many groups are like that? None that I have ever seen or know of. In fact, how often do IBOs even sell enough products to cover their expenses for even one month out of the year? The groups that teach "buy from yourself" end up doing the most financial damage to their groups because the downline's expenses are then covered exclusively from the downlines jobs, bank accounts, or drive the downline into debt.

I've seen and discussed group structures in forums many times and I can only conclude that tool sales wipe out what little profits/bonuses some of the downlines might receive. Only when an IBO is able to sponsor enough downline to absorb the losses for them will they finally break even or make a little profit. I would guess that the 4000 PV level or platinum is where a dedicated CORE IBO would just about break even and possibly start to make a real profit. But if you are hard core dedicated, you can still lose money at these levels. We also know that most platinum groups have 100 or more IBOs in order to generate 7500 PV. Thus we can also conclude that less than 1% of IBOs make a net profit. The only way IBOs can earn a net profit at a lower level is to avoid purchasing tools and to avoid paying for functions. Those who get involved in a system such as WWDB or N21 almost guarantee that they will have a net loss because of the expenses associated with these systems.

Sure, my job may have a pyramid structure with the CEO making the most money. But the difference is that in a company, even the lowest paid employee still receives a paycheck and has money at the end of the month. The same claim cannot be made by IBOs. For these reasons, I believe Amway to be a legal pyramid, where money flows from downline to the upline. IBOs and information seekers are free to participate, but I challenge them to sit down and really analyze their ability to make a net profit. In most cases, the analysis won't be favorable. If you are in the US in particular, you may have great difficulty in even being able to discuss "Amway" without getting strange looks your way from others. Do you have to shy away from using the name Amway? Do you have to use the curiosity approach? If you do, ask yourself why. The answer is obvious.

Freedom?

 When I was an Amway IBO, I often saw my upline diamond driving around town dressed in a business suit. I used to think why does he keep working if he can walk away and collect residual income? My sponsor told me that the diamond only works because he loves and cares about his downline and wants to help them. So, there are two possible scenarios, the diamond is working to help his downline out of a genuine concern, or possibly he is working because he has to! The only difference now is that the diamond works the night and/or graveyard shift, because many IBOs are building the business after they complete their day jobs. **We should also note that my former upline diamond dropped down to the emerald level around 2005 and has since re-established his diamond level. He also moved from Hawaii (he said he loved the ocean) to Washington State and lives in a middle-class neighborhood.

Now Amway has stated that the average (non Q12) diamond earns about $150k a year. That is a decent income, but after taxes and paying for basic expenses such as medical and dental insurance, the average diamond probably lives a very middle-class lifestyle. Keep in mind that a large portion of a diamond's income comes in the form of an annual bonus, thus a diamond's monthly income may be quite small. Yes, diamonds may have other sources of income such as speaking engagements and income from standing orders and functions. But this income depends on the diamond's continued appearances and efforts. Stop "working" and the income stops also.

So is it likely that a diamond is "free"? I would have to conclude that a diamond is not free and may actually have to spend more time maintaining his group than if the diamond simply had a 9-5 job. For one thing, a diamond needs to maintain a personal group to keep qualifying for bonuses. With a poor retention rate in Amway, I am fairly sure that a diamond spends much time recruiting personally sponsored IBOs to maintain this group. Additionally, a diamond must help his six or more groups of downline platinums to maintain their businesses or face the possibility of falling out of qualification. My former diamond dropped down to the emerald level but has since re-qualified at diamond. A diamond must also dedicate time to reward up and coming movers and shakers, to keep them motivated. I got to spend time with my upline diamond when I was considered a promising up and coming pin.

In order to continue to receive tools income, a diamond must also travel to numerous functions and speaking engagements. Although the tools income allegedly doubles a diamond's income, it also adds a lot of expenses, especially if the diamond and his family travel first class to show off the diamond lifestyle.

After breaking down projected income and considering projected expenses, I can only conclude that a diamond probably lives a middle class lifestyle, and probably works as much as a man with a 9-5 job, except that a diamond works nites and weekends. A good portrait of this is shown in Ruth Carter's book (Amway Motivational Organizations: Behind The Smoke and Mirrors). In the book, the diamond had a net income of over $300,000, but lived in debt, could barely pay his mortgage, and was always on the run from one function to the next. Is that financial freedom?

I believe that diamonds may actually be busier at the diamond level than an average Joe who has a 9-5 J-O-B. The difference is that the diamond works the night shift. Is this the freedom you are seeking?

Paid In Cash?

 When I was an Amway IBO, I was always taught that diamonds pay cash for everything. That one day, after following the foolproof WWDB system, that I too, would be strolling on the beaches of the world, with cash rolling into my bank account with no worries in the world. We were told that diamonds pay cash for all purchases, even homes and other large ticket items. As evidence, the diamonds would show slideshows of mansions and sports cars, golf club memberships and other lavish items. All paid for in cash we were told. I have reason to believe that WWDB still teaches this except that it is probably a bunch of lies.

First of all, in looking back, the group really had no way of knowing what was paid for or not. We just assumed that diamond made so much money that everything the diamonds spoke of were true. However, there have been events, that exposed some of the apparent lies told by these diamonds. There were two (2) diamonds whose home foreclosures became public knowledge and a prominent triple diamond who was involved in (chapter 7) bankruptcy proceedings. Now your home cannot be foreclosed if it's paid for in cash, right? Technically, nobody would care whether a diamond's home was mortgaged or paid for, but when diamonds parade in front of a crowd bragging about wealth, and then telling the audience that they too will achieve the same success by following the system and upline advice, well that's a bit misleading in my opinion. So many people in the audience are practically crying because they want what the diamonds are flaunting, except that possibly, many of these diamonds don't even have what they are selling.

An average diamond might make about $150,000 (Non Q-12) (according to Amway) and let's just say another $150,000 from selling support materials. When you factor in taxes and business expenses such as travel to and from functions, what's left over certainly is not going to allow you to purchase million dollar mansions and fancy sports cars. Some higher up pins might make a bit more, but still, purchasing mansions and other luxuries in cash is a stretch. It would be my guess that most diamonds indeed have a mortgage on their homes and may even have car payments. That's not necessarily a crime but it is unethical to lie about your income in order to recruit new downlines.

For IBOs and other newbies, if your uplines are bragging about paying for homes and other things in cash, ask them to show proof of these claims. I can show you pictures of multi-million dollar mansions and sports cars, it doesn't mean that I paid for them in cash. But then again, admitting to having a mortgage or having monthly car payments are not quite as attractive or exciting as claiming to pay for these things in cash.

Quitting Is Winning?

 I often see commentary about people quitting Amway and Amway loyalists are quick to call them broke, losers, lazy, lacking guts. Ironically, these same lazy and loser types of people were "sharp" and motivated prospects before they signed up for the Amway opportunity. Someone recently left a comment on my blog about how AMOs should conduct exit interviews with departing IBOs to get to the root of the problems. I think these exit interviews would reveal that people are working hard and applying the AMO (Amway Motivational Organizations) teaching, only to lose money,

Based on my years of blogging and Amway experiences, I can honestly say I believe that people quit Amway primarily for one reason. The money isn't there. Amway's own numbers show that the average IBO earns just over $200 a month and that is before taxes and expenses, and that number excludes inactive IBOs. Business building IBOs earn most of the bonuses, but business building IBOs generally have the most expenses, often participating in the system of standing orders, voicemail, books and functions.

When I was an IBO, I did as upline advised and I achieved a fairly significant level (4000 PV), but due to the expenses associated with tools and helping downline, I didn't earn net profit. This is confirmed by a study done by the Wisconsin attorney general who examined the tax returns of platinums and found that they averaged a net loss of about $1000 a year. While the study was a bit dated, I would suggest it is still very valid as platinums today, have more tools (business building materials) that they are expected to buy from upline. If I made nothing at 4000 PV, anyone with half a brain can conclude that IBOs below 4000 PV and fully participating on the system would end up with a net loss because their expenses would be similar to mine, but with less bonus money.

The bottom line is that people are very likely quitting because they aren't profitable. If people made a few hundred a month with 8-15 hours of work per week, they would continue to run their businesses. But those who work and make nothing or lose money have no reason or motivation to continue. Thus, they simply make a wise business decision and quit. What seemed like a good idea during the presentation simply did not pan out when reality set in. It's also reasonable to conclude that the products are that great because if they were, those who quit would become loyal customers, thus even if the sales force turned over, sales would consistently rise as former IBOs would become customers. It's apparent that most former IBOs do not become loyal Amway customers. In fact, for those who later discover they were lied to or deceived about the Amway opportunity, become critical of Amway instead.

Why do people quit Amway? I think the answer is crystal clear. The quitters are the winners!