One of the things IBOs are taught is to blame themselves for not working the business hard enough or not doing things right, exactly as upline advised. Actually, nothing could be further from the truth. It's just that uplines want to be absolved from any responsibility so they teach downline that failure in Amway is their own (The downline's) fault. Upline is also quick to take credit for any success, of course. Why shouldn't these same leaders be held accountable for their downline's results? I might add that with such a low success rate in Amway, the teaching is rendered ineffective.
The reason why hard work doesn't equal success is because an Amway IBO is basically a commissioned sales person. In commissioned sales, one can work hard for no reward and at times, little effort may reap large rewards. But in Amway, with a spotty reputation, Amway IBOs are dealt a handicap that most simply cannot overcome. Getting new people to recruitment meetings is hard enough, not even factoring in the abililty to sponsor others. Then you toss in the ridiculous prices for some of these Amway products. When factoring in these tidbits, it's easy to see why uplines teach buy from yourself and selling is not needed. Because selling is next to impossible unless you're selling to sympathetic family and friends.
The work involved is very simple. Sell products and get other IBOs in your downline to be able to leverage your volume. Many IBOs work hard and attend all of the functions and do all of the steps as outlined by upline, but very few reap rewards and most quit when they realize that the system doesn't work. It is sad that on top of losing money, that IBOs are also taught to blame themselves for their demise. Where is the upline when IBOs bust their butts working hard and get no rewards? On top of that, to make it worse, uplines profit from selling training and motivation to their downlines. Why aren't they held acountable?
I've read comments by some Amway defenders wanting to sue Amway critics for a potential loss of business. But most critics, like myself are simply stating our experiences and opinions. Most of which are true and still happening today. So I will ask, what about the millions of former IBOs who may have lost billions of dollars because of false claims which led them to believe that they would get rich following upline advice? Maybe former IBOs should unite and file claims against unethical upline leaders who led them astray? Why not hold these leaders accountable?
In any case, hard work doesn't equate success in Amway and I dare anyone to try to prove me wrong.
14 comments:
Hi. Thoughtful article. Did you have an uncooperative up line? The same can be related to a boss at work to isn't it? Just replace upline with boss and it sounds the same.
I agree too that the traditional way the amway business is built is wrong. But I disagree with you when you say that only in amway our failure is directly put on us. Before being an IBO I ran my own business.. There also out effort was directly proportional to result. Currently I have a job plus ABO plus also run a design business.. All look the same to me..
I think this business completely depends on how you run it like any other business. Yes there are some up lines who are morons but there are some who jump in the mud with us and allow us to take full credit for our success.. would love to hear back from you.
You say Amway is just like any other business but that's far from the truth. In other businesses, you don't recruit your own competition and you don't turn your customers into your competitors either. Also, in real business, your income is from customers and not from "buying from yourself".
What I am saying is that upline takes credit for the few and far between successes and then blames the downline IBO's for the failures, regardless of how hard that IBO might try.
To MaDdy --
You say your up-line allows you "to take full credit for our success." What the hell does that mean? Does he congratulate you for getting a ten-buck bonus check every month, after you have spent $300?
Just tell us, in simple figures, how much money you have made or lost in Amway so far. There hasn't been a single defender of the Amway racket who has had the balls to do that when asked by Joe Cool.
Come on -- be the first. And please don't give us any bullshit about "empowering," or "leadership," or "pro-suming," or any other Amway jargon.
Maddy,
When you said, "I agree too that the traditional way the amway business is built is wrong. But I disagree with you when you say that only in amway our failure is directly put on us." what exactly did you mean?
What is the "traditional" way of building an Amway "business" vs. the assumed "contemporary method"? It would seem Amway has been a weird dinosaur for the past 50+ years that says a bunch of things, but trots along doing the same old crap.
Maddy you also said, "There also out effort was directly proportional to result."
This line has been spewed for decades, and it applies to nearly everything except for Amway. There are so many people that have gone broke putting in countless hours and sleepless nights. There are documentaries, books, news articles, and lawsuits to prove that the effort is not reflective of the results.
Also, do you run your businesses legally? If you understand how to run a business, then you would understand the nonsense about Amway tax incentives is a lie, and that the profit percentage on a sale of an Amway product to a retail consumer is pitifully small, and certainly not sustainable with your own overhead (gas, lodging, food, seminars, etc.). I find it hard to believe that anyone who owns and operates their own business would find anything viable in Amway, and for that matter, would choose a dinosaur like Amway over something current where there is more desirability.
P.S. Once again, the IBO has a tremendously difficult time with the English language and is barely understandable. Where are the educated IBO's that can formulate non-rehearsed Amway rhetoric, provide important quantitative numbers, and eliminate the hearsay.
Yes, Amway is expensive. But if you give your customers a reason to try. When I order my products I order from my down line and I encourage my down line to do the same. I show them that if they choose a certain division of Amway (my college students focus on Legacy of Clean - college students need to wash their clothes ) that's how you make money.
How do you meet your 100 PV focusing on Legacy of Clean? It's low PV and lost cost.
You promote one but you introduce the others. Give out samples..
Giving out samples doesn't make you any money.
You've got to understand something about these Amway freaks (call them IBOs, ambots, distributors, or whatever). They will SAY ANYTHING cover up the fact that Amway is a bad deal. Their mouths have been trained to spout bullshit non-stop. It's part of their standard procedure for roping in new recruits -- up-line has told them "Just keep talking! Say anything! Don't let your shpiel stop! The longer you keep hitting them with verbiage, the weaker they'll be, and you'll be able to get their contact number!"
If one of these assholes from Amway comes up to you at Barnes and Noble or Starbucks or a shopping mall, the first thing you'll notice is that you can't get rid of him! He'll stick to you like adhesive tape! And his mouth will run like an outboard motor as he throws lies and false facts and propaganda lines at you about the "great Amway opportunity."
The same is true here at this website. Amway defenders come here occasionally and are basically robotic androids. They can't think clearly. They have an appalling inability to speak English properly. They can't put a coherent sentence together, let alone a logical thought. They disregard questions raised, and simply spout absurdities about "pro-suming" and "empowerment" and "business leadership."
That's why, no matter what sensible and solid arguments we put forward here, and no matter what horror stories about Amway ex-IBOs tell here, and no matter how many solid facts we bring forward about the Amway fraud, these Amway freaks will just keep shooting off their mouths non-stop. They'll be spouting pure Amway bullshit, but it doesn't matter to them. They are "answering the critics."
Who do you listen to? The people who did well in Amway, or the complainers who are always belittling everything in their life because it is everyone else's fault that they didn't do well in Amway. I don't think people should disregard anything just because it didn't work for them. Also, looking at how much people spend on this compared to how much they get back is nonsense. Spend money on things you normally buy from any store (snacks, energy drinks, supplements, etc.) and get nothing back, or buy from Amway and collect a $7 paycheck a month. Conventions might cost you money as well, but personally I would rather spend that money on a weekend convention to get an awesome education than spend it on booze and parties and complain about how broke I am. Don't hate on Amway for just trying to help people better themselves. No it doesn't work for everyone, and not everyone makes a ton of money, but it is a way to at least try and achieve something for themselves in a world full of chaos and negativity.
Listen to the people who are successful in life and not the complainers with a bad attitude about life.
James, a smart prospective business owner would listen to successful and not successful people to hear both sides of the story. That is especially important in Amway where the vast majority make nothing or lose money. Your upline has secrets they don't want you to know about. That's why they give that kind of advice. It's also why they discourage "crossline" conversation.
You say you get nothing back from stores. Well, I can buy a huge $3 bottle of shampoo at Target and get 1% back on my credit card with no minimum. For a similar bottle of shampoo in Amway, you pay $10 and then if you meet a minimum 100 PV (approximately) $300 in spending, you get back $7. Even if you get "paid", it's because you paid for your own bonus by purchasing overpriced product.
Your "awesome education" is awesome why? You aren't making any money in Amway and you think you are successful but you aren't. The only successful people are the ones making money by selling the cds and functions. The rest of you are contributing to the diamonds.
Does your awesome education include assuming that people not in Amway and complainers with a bad attitude in life?
To James Collins --
If, according to Amway's published statements, nearly 99% of IBOs do not make any money in the Amway business, then how in hell can you say that it is a good business opportunity?
A simple question. Now give us a simple answer, without any jargon about "pro-suming" or "leadership" or "direct selling" or "empowerment."
James Collins,
Thank you for supporting Amway with at least a few years of English under your belt. This is truly a refreshing moment.
"Who do you listen to? The people who did well in Amway, or the complainers who are always belittling everything in their life because it is everyone else's fault that they didn't do well in Amway. I don't think people should disregard anything just because it didn't work for them."
Okay, there are a few problems with statements like this. First, this is an incredibly loaded question. Not everyone who is against Amway is a complainer or belittles everything in life. In fact, the people who are against Amway only write about issues with Amway, and it is proponents of Amway that usually derail the conversation. Second, normally people do disregard things that don't work for them...that's what sane people do! If you spent your time focusing on things that don't work then you are probably struggling in life (99% of Amway IBO's).
"Also, looking at how much people spend on this compared to how much they get back is nonsense. Spend money on things you normally buy from any store (snacks, energy drinks, supplements, etc.) and get nothing back, or buy from Amway and collect a $7 paycheck a month."
No, that's called being smart with your money. Why would you not be concerned with your bottom line if you are an intelligent independent business owner? I don't remember going into a store and asking to pay half of what it costs the store, then saying why would you care...it's all nonsense. A $7.00 rebate on products that are over 400% marked up on a minimum $300 order is terrible. That is the equivalent of $1200 worth of stuff from your local store. Thank goodness you got that $7.00 back!
"Conventions might cost you money as well, but personally I would rather spend that money on a weekend convention to get an awesome education than spend it on booze and parties and complain about how broke I am."
I'd rather go buy a cheap bottle of booze and drink my woe's away...but that's just me. After discussing the numbers previously stated, and knowing that a convention is over $150 a ticket + food + gas + lodging (Potentially depending on the distance)...I could throw a pretty rockin' party with that kind of money.
"Don't hate on Amway for just trying to help people better themselves. No it doesn't work for everyone, and not everyone makes a ton of money, but it is a way to at least try and achieve something for themselves in a world full of chaos and negativity.
Listen to the people who are successful in life and not the complainers with a bad attitude about life."
Are they really trying to help better people? Do you really think they care that much about you, or do you think...just maybe...they are trying to help themselves and line their own pockets? Conman literally means confidence man, as in they instill confidence in you while they take your money. Personally, Amway member have the worst attitudes, because if you aren't with them...you are dead to them. It is literally impossible to have a relationship with a member of Amway and not be in the game.
Persons in Amway are "provincial" in the very worst sense of that term. They simply will not concede that anything other than Amway is a worthwhile activity. In this sense they are like bigots who think that anyone not of their race is inferior, or that anyone not in their religion is damned, or that anyone not of their nationality is an enemy.
Try talking to an Amway freak about any subject other than "The Business." He will be as blank and as silent as a department-store mannikin.
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