Success Speaks For Itself?

 I heard a great comment from a commentator on a related Amway blog. Basically, he said if Diamonds and Amway IBOs were so successful, people would just naturally be attracted. And that's true! Where I live, the local electric company is an attractive place to work with a good salary and benefits package. When there's a handful of openings, you might get as many as 10,000 people applying for these positions. When the federal government hires for the local post office, you get thousands of applicants for a handful of jobs as well.  It's because the salary and working conditions are good, and the benefits are as well.

But Diamonds and Amway IBOs have to justify their positions. The common ones are how Amway products are concentrated, or they have magical ingredients in their vitamins. It is my position that if these products were so good and the opportunity actually produced successful IBOs, there would be no need to be deceptive about the products or opportunity. The products could easily me marketed. In fact, customers would be seeking IBOs to find the products, and there would be lines of people waiting to see the opportunity. But that isn't the case. Clearly, many Amway IBOs use some degree of deception usually called the curiosity approach or outright lies.

Instead, IBOs themselves are the primary consumers of Amway products. Many IBOs are deceptive when inviting people to see the Amway plan. Some prospects are outright lied to when recruited for the Amway opportunity. The curiosity approach is still used by many, because mentioning "Amway" is more likely to get you funny looks than interest. If what I am writing is not true, why do IBOs need to deceive people? Why don't some IBOs open their books and display the financial success they claim to have? Why so secretive? Why aren't there hordes of new diamonds and emeralds each month? Instead, you mainly hear of the Amway growth in foreign countries. Most likely because the Amway name and reputation has not yet been soiled as it has in the US and Canada.

In the US, I see primarily the same old diamonds who were in control of the functions and systems from more than 30+ years ago, minus the diamonds who died while still working the business. In fact, factoring in diamonds who quit or dropped out, I believe there are fewer diamonds now than when I was an IBO in the 1990s. Some of these diamonds also had some apparent financial difficulties. The opportunity is far from how it's promoted. Success speaks louder than words, and where North American Amway success is concerned, the silence is deafening!  Where is the success, or the "fruit on the tree" that WWDB leaders used to like to tout?  The tree is barren.

The Impossible Dream?

 Every year, tens of millions of kids across the US have dreams of playing sports. Some dream of playing professionally, some dream of playing at the collegiate level, some may have dreams of dazzling their high school peers. And this can apply to just about any sport, be it baseball, football, hockey, basketball, golf or whatever endeavor you can think of. As you progress to each of the next higher levels, the number of participants decrease. There are only so many professional teams, and so many college teams, while there are scores of high school teams all across the country. As each level gets higher, it is likely that better physical attributes and greater skills are needed in order to move on. 

I've heard some Amway supporters make comparisons between the Amway opportunity and how the higher levels are like the professionals and the rank and file are like the high schoolers. While I agree that there's only limited space at the higher levels, i think it's extremely important to note why the masses do not achieve the highest levels. In sports, you would need to have the motivation, the physical gifts, as well as the skills to achieve and excel at the highest level. Thus, people who are small in stature likely won't be candidates for the NFL or NBA even with a lot of motivation. Someone under 6' tall might have great difficulty in getting a job in the NBA. Of course there are always exceptions, but those exceptions are made up by perhaps, incredible "other" skills or leadership. Some athletes have a knack for being in the right place at the right time, or an intangible.  

So what does this have to do with Amway? The connection is the massive amounts of Amway IBOs who never achieve even the break even point. They may come into the program with dreams of financial freedom, or making enough to have a stay home wife, etc. Why do so few achieve even the lowest levels? In my opinion, the Amway business has too many barriers that prevent IBOs from succeeding. These barriers make it nearly impossible for anyone to reach the higher levels. These barriers include but are not limited to high prices that make many products a tough sell. Then you have the optional but vital training and functions that normally drain whatever profit the lower level IBOs make. Even someone at 2500 or 4000 PV will net a loss if they need to travel by air to functions. You can also factor in some of the zany things previous IBOs have done such as tricking people into attending meetings, or not being accountable to downline, or by messing with your downline's money (bouncing checks).  

In the end, the masses of IBOs just do not possess the ability to overcome these barriers that can stop the charge of a bull elephant. It is why so many IBOs try hard and achieve nothing. While much effort may be expended, it looks as if these folks did nothing and quit. The reality is that most people who sign up were highly motivated but more likely found an impossible barrier and decided to do something else. I know of many former IBOs who went onto succeed in life after Amway. Many do not complain or voice complaints because they were involved in Amway with family and friends.  

So in Amway and in pro sports, there are masses who want to achieve their dreams. In both cases, a tiny percentage might achieve the top levels. The difference is that athletes know that their chances are small. IBOs are often misled into thinking that everyone can achieve diamond and residual income, which is a myth. Also in pro sports, there is no scam where people have a proven training system that will ensure success if you work hard. In pro sports, it is proven that the elite make millions. Whereas Amway diamonds seem to shroud their success in secrecy, showing pictures of mansions to show off success. Also, athletes may not make the professional ranks but may have benefited by getting a free college education. There aren't any stories of success in Amway for those who don't "make it", as far as I know. Are you chasing an impossible dream?

Random Observation Of Amway?

 http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=192279&page=8

It's refreshing to see so many good people on this forum telling the truth about Amway. It looks like the pro-Amway shills here and on other sites are becoming increasingly outnumbered and desperate. I've read through this entire thread and think it is hilarious how many times the shill has to move the goal-posts or play word games to make Amway look like an amazing business opportunity.

I was originally introduced to Amway many years ago in my late teens by an uncle of mine. I attended a few of their seminars, and was impressed at first. But the whole thing started to seem ridiculous and unrealistic and so I didn't get involved any further. Also, I'm not that materialistic, so Amway's message doesn't appeal to me. I wish my uncle had been more skeptical.

My uncle was very devoted to Amway for a few years. He bought all their products(especially the tapes and books), tried to get others to buy them, and also tried to recruit all his family and friends into his new religion. He eventually lost money and friends and alienated himself from much of his family.

Already heavily in debt, he eventually fell for another, even bigger get-rich-quick scam shortly after quitting Amway(to Amway's credit, they don't threaten to kill anyone for leaving Amway). This one robbed him of his entire life savings. The scammers got away with it because they knew how to play him right(he met one of them through Amway). His wife divorced him soon after.

As if this wasn't enough, after making a modest financial recovery with his business over the course of several years, he loses it all to yet another scam. He had to borrow heavily from the few friends he had left since no bank would ever give him a loan, and almost no one in the family has anything to do with him anymore. I haven't seen him for 15 years.

One thing I wonder about my uncle is if all those seminars and inspirational tapes and books softened him up to fall for all those other scams he fell for after quitting Amway(he didn't have a reputation for being gullible before joining Amway, though he was never that bright to begin with). If I remember correctly, he tended to blame himself for failing at Amway, and may have never understood that it was a big scam or at least not a good business opportunity.

I still remember those crazy seminars and how they told everyone that joining the Amway cult will likely lead to yachts, exotic vacations surrounded by hot bikini babes, and shiny expensive cars, among other symbols of wealth. Everyone is told at the seminars and in the "tools" that they have all this unfulfilled potential, but to realize this potential we must avoid those small-minded "dream killers"(skeptical family members and friends).

The story about my stupid uncle is true. There are many other people out there just like him who have fallen for Amway and others MLMs. The few people I've met who claimed they were very successful at Amway usually seemed sleazy or I would find out years later they were up to their eyeballs in debt.

The person who said before that the people who regularly attend these seminars are mostly fools and misfits was spot on.

Socialism And Wealth Redistribution?

 I wrote a blog post on November 5, 2025 (last month) about Zohran Mamdani winning the mayor's race in New York City.  He made a lot of promises and I believe many of his promises will not come to fruition because it requires the assistance of the State, and governor Hochul, who is up for re-election in 2026, may not want to cooperate with all of his desires and promises, because she might be in a battle for her own seat and raising taxes and fees in an election year is usually not a good idea, even in deep blue New York.  

This article stirred some responses, which I welcome.  But I wanted to focus on one aspect of Mr. Mamdani's platform.  That he doesn't believe that billionaires should exist.  I would assume that to mean that he wants to do something (as a democrat socialist) that Bernie Sanders advocated for, which is a 100% tax on income/assets over a certain amount.  I would guess that means anyone approaching a billion dollars in net worth would not get to keep anything over $999,999,999.00.  While in the world of socialism, this sounds ideal and nobody needs that much money is the argument.   By the way, does anyone notice that in socialism, the politicians are still wealthy?  I thought many New Yorkers advocated for "no kings"?

The problem is that billionaire types of rich people are rich because they generate wealth and most often know how to protect it.  Nobody with knowledge and resources will allow government to take away any assets beyond a billion dollars.  They would take "capital flight", which would be to leave NY, or the US and go to tax havens such as Switzerland or the Cayman islands.   The irony with Mr. Sander's argument also, is that he's worth a lot of money.  Maybe not a billion, but tens of millions.  I don't see him surrendering any of his assets that he "doesn't need" voluntarily.  So maybe, just maybe his idea is a NIMBY one?  

I did a check just before writing this article.  The top 1% of earners in the US pays 40% of all federal taxes in the US.  So much for the myth that the rich don't pay their fair share.  To expand this, the top 25% or so of earners in the US pay 80% of the taxes.  So, the rich not paying their fair share is a myth.  Certain politicians keep saying this, but they are speaking without a factual basis.   The bottom 75% of earners pay about 10% of federal taxes.  

But socialism may seem like a good idea to young people who entertain the idea of being able to receive universal basic income, along with free bus service, etc.  Rent controlled apartments, etc.  But when you have too many people receiving and not contributing, the system starts to fail.   Also, rent controlled apartments falls apart when landlords get increased property taxes and expenses and deem the venture unable to render a profit.  Then you run out of rentals.  

Let me paint another picture:  Elon Musk is currently the richest man in the world with a net worth just below 500 billion.  If the government were to take away all of Elon's assets and distributed all of that in cash to everyone on the planet, each person alive would get about $40 each.  In poor countries, the money would go further of course, and, in the US, you might get a meal or few days' worth of groceries.  Then Elon would be broke, unable to fund Space X, research on things to make our lives better and about 160,000 high paying jobs in highly skilled areas would be out of work, and unable to contribute to the tax base.  The one-time $40 payment would be gone in no time, but the aftereffects would be devastating.  I know that nobody has proposed doing this, but squeezing the rich as a whole could still see this kind of effect spread out.  Capital flight is real.   California and New York already had a large exodus of residents to tax friendly states like Texas and Florida.  Gavin Newsom can deny it and claim how big and great California's economy is.  And while he might be right, Silicon Valley existed well before Newsom was governor and if taxes and regulations squeeze out companies like Nvidia and other big tech companies, then what?  What if New York's Wall Street moved to Florida?  The tax consequences to these states would be devastating.  

These are just some reasons why I do not believe socialism can succeed.   I hope Mr. Mamdani moves towards the center on some of his policy ideas, but if not, I believe New York will struggle greatly.  Maybe not immediately, but socialism fails when the government runs out of other people's money to fund "free stuff".  And this article doesn't even address Mr. Mamdani's idea to replace armed police with social workers and having a smaller police force.  There's a reason why people generally speaking, do not rob banks if a police car is in the parking lot, and people generally do not speed and drive recklessly if an officer is on to road with them.  It's called deterrence.  It's almost the same reason why many night clubs have bouncers that look like the incredible Hulk at the doors.

Good luck New York City.  I hope I'm wrong, but I highly doubt it.

  

The Big Scam?

 A lot of people come and go in Amway, but many of those who come and go don't even notice the scam. They get sold on what they believe is a business opportunity that they can make some money at, or at the very least save some money on products that they would normally buy anyway. If they do it right, they can possibly make some "real" money and with some had work, you can build it right and have the option one day of walking away from Amway and living off ongoing residual income from Amway. It sounds reasonable and therein lies the scam.

For years, I have challenged people to name 2-3 people, aside from the Amway owners, who joined, built the business "right" and was able to walk away and retire with ongoing residual income, enough to be financially free forever. Not a single person has been able to name and confirm that even a single person has done this. I believe it's all a lie and part of the scam. Amway's distributor force turns over about 50% each year. How can you build a residual income empire when half of your downline quits each year? I believe Amway diamonds trade their 9-5 jobs for the night shift. They work at night and into the morning hours because they are working to replace people who quit and to support downline platinums who might struggle or fail to re-qualify for that level. If upline says they are working for the love of their downline, I call BS on that. If walking away and enjoying life was an option, why hasn't anyone chosen it?

Now you could argue that a diamond's "work" isn't that bad and they aren't reporting to a boss. And that would be true, but I imagine the pressure of churning people in and out to keep qualifying can be stressful in itself. If you live on an island like me, you can eventually have trouble finding new people to work with. In 1997 or so, there were a bunch of diamonds in Hawaii, and they all moved to the mainland. Now I'm not sure why but my upline diamond was Harimoto, who loved the ocean and the beaches. Yet he moved to Washington state. I believe they needed new grounds to mine, just like gold miners.

The next part of the scam is how IBOs will tell you about Amway's generous money back guarantee. 100% they'll tell you. What they don't tell you is that the guarantee is only on some of the products and the signup fee. The cds, books, voicemail and functions are not sold or run by Amway. And these expenses can be very significant over a period of time. IBOs and prospects need to know this. You can lose thousands and get back pennies on the dollar asking for a refund on the signup fee and perhaps a few products. Another piece of the scam.

Also, IBOs and prospects are often shown only the very best-case scenario (such as going diamond) but not told that your chance of being struck by lightning is much higher than your chance of going diamond, even though going diamond is not a random event. A real life and likely scenario is getting in and trying hard for a while and then quitting with some business losses. At least if you know this and still try anyway, you will have done so with full disclosure.

Lastly, it's insidious in my opinion, for upline to tell you to trust them and to do as they say and then turn around and tell IBOs that failure is their responsibility. That they didn't work hard enough or do thing just right. That sure isn't what they are preaching when recruiting you into the business. They are saying how sharp you are and how you're likely to tear up the business. But it's just another facet of the scam. I've outlined the parts of the opportunity that I believe are scams, but I'm sure it's not limited to my point of view.

Good luck if you read this and join anyway.

Around The Corner?

  When I was an Amway IBO, I heard the saying over and over. Never quit, success might be right around the corner. There were countless stories by diamonds and emeralds of how they were on the verge of quitting but stuck it out and somehow "made it".  I also heard stories about why people should not quit because even if you were told "no" a thousand times, the next prospect might say "yes" and turn your entire business around. This mindset is almost like a gambler who thinks the next hand or the next roll of the dice will suddenly start the beginning of a good run.   While Amway is not a game of chance, I find it telling that the success rates of IBOs is lower than the chances of winning a game of chance.

I believe these are all heartfelt stories. However, I believe that many stories are embellished and made to order. Or in other words, made to fit a standing order. If you listen carefully to many of the standing orders, you will notice that the higher pins were consistently sponsoring people and generally achieved the platinum level in 18 months or less. There are exceptions of course, but the majority of stories I heard seem to have had the same theme. Those who were destined for success achieved some significant level in less than 2 years.  And that's life.  Some people will have a greater propensity for success than others.

But for IBOs and new recruits, if you aren't constantly bringing in new people to the open meetings, and sponsoring new people, then you are very unlikely to ever achieve much in Amway. Statistically, less than one half of one percent ever reach platinum. Thus, if you are unable to grow your organization or group, then you are unlikely to be that one who "makes it". Success is not around the corner as some uplines will have you believe. If you take 100 "no's" and then someone finally says "yes" then chances are that person who said yes, will "do nothing", or do little and wind up quitting. Chances are that person won't sponsor anyone or show anyone the plan. Chances are that person won't even be in the business a few months later.

It might be a good idea for IBOs to take a step back and take an unbiased look at their business and their business activities. Is your group growing consistently? Is your volume increasing each month? Are you able to get people interested in seeing the plan on a consistent basis? If you answered "no" to any of these points, then you are unlikely to progress and achieve anything of significance in the Amway business.   Not quitting only keeps you invested in tools and functions, which the diamonds handsomely profit from.  Why do you think they always teach never to quit?   Sometimes quitting a business and doing something else is the best business decision you can make.  It doesn't mean you quit trying to better yourself.  It just means you might need a better vehicle to achieve success.  

One important thing for people to note is that there are many ways to achieve your financial goals and dreams. Amway is probably not the best vehicle for most. The numbers speak for themselves. If less than one half of one percent ever reach platinum, where allegedly, IBOs finally break even or a see a small profit, then I would say your chances of success are better elsewhere, even if that is a second job. The average "active" IBO earns about $200 a month according to Amway. Considering all IBOs, then the average income is probably about $100 a month. You can earn much more than that working 4-5 hours a week at minimum wage.

Is success right around the corner? I doubt it.

If Not Amway?

  One of the humorous things that Amway IBOs often bring up is that someone who sees Amway in a critical eye should bring up viable alternatives. I mean if someone prevents you from falling over a cliff, they should have warned you and given you alternatives right? If I recognized you getting were conned by a conman, I should find viable financial investments for you before warning you of the potential scam you are about to walk into right? It sounds completely ridiculous but Amway IBOs have actually made those comments on this blog and some other Amway related websites.

Well, let's explore a few of these alternatives anyway just for fun. How about you stay home and do nothing? For most IBOs, you would be better off financially than committing your time and resources into Amway's products and their ineffective training materials and functions. If you are really dedicated to tools, sending your upline a check for $50 monthly and not buying Amway goods or related training materials would make you better off. Isn't it ironic that
doing nothing makes you better off than Amway?

A second job where you actually receive a paycheck is a better alternative. While there's no hype and hopes of getting rich in 2-5 years, you can do much for your future by saving a portion of that pay check each month. If you are young, this especially applies to you. But anyone can help their future by saving and investing. Even someone who panhandles is more likely to have more net cash than most Amway IBOs since most Amway IBOs make nothing or lose money.

Sure, some people do make money in Amway and some make a lot of money. The problem is they make money by exploiting their downlines and those hopeful downlines basically have no hope. In other words, you profit by selling false hope and false dreams. Basically, you can gain wealth in Amway by being a conman. Can you live with yourself in order to profit at any cost? What the upline does is extract $100 or a few hundred dollars a month from a lot of people.

I haven't even gone into the amount of time lost chasing prospects and attending functions. Your time might be the most valuable commodity that is lost chasing the 2-5 year dream. Ask yourself this question. Where are these diamonds who did the 2-5 year plan living in luxury and doing nothing? I have asked this over the years numerous times and not a single Amway defender can name someone and provide a shred of evidence that it's true.

The Myths?

  Most LOS groups that I know of, use 100 PV as the benchmark when promoting the Amway business. Many groups also teach that you simply "change" your shopping habits and you can easily reach 100 PV. This teaching creates an artificial demand for Amway products and I believe that Amway sales would take a huge dip if not for this teaching. I also am of the opinion that for this reason, Amway had/has done little to reign in LOS abuses of downline.  And I might add, many groups teach 150 to 300 PV, even for single IBOs, who are "hard core", dedicated to moving up in the business.  

100 PV is roughly equal to about $250 to $300 worth of products. Of course, your cost may vary, depending on whether you purchase a lot of CORE Amway products such as laundry detergent, and nutrilte vitamins. For many people, the 100 PV benchmark is seen as the minimum for a business building IBO. The problem for many is that Amway products are not competitively priced, thus it is a hard sell. If I can buy the same or a similar product elsewhere for a fraction of the price, I will. And most consumers feel the same way.  The dedication to Amway goods goes away when a IBO's dreams no longer include Amway.  

It is why some LOS groups adopted the "buy from yourself and get others to do the same" philosophy. Since most people do not like selling, and because of the high prices of Amway products, simply telling prospects to buy from yourself made the concept palatable. The problem with buy from yourself is that it reaches the borders of being illegal, in my opinion. That is because in a buy from yourself environment, the only way for an IBO to make a profit, is to recruit downline to benefit from the volume rebates. That is because there are no outside customers to bring in cash from outside the circle of IBOs.  No business that I know of, including Amway, can prosper by making your own purchases with no non-Amway customers.  

What makes this issue even worse is when you have LOS groups such as WWDB creating an even greater problem with programs such as eagle. If 100 PV is an inflated demand for Amway products, incentive programs such as eagle make it worse. How can a single person reasonably be expected to move 200 to 300 PV when most of it is personal consumption? The upline leaders use these programs as an incentive for downline IBOs, but in turn, they benefit financially by having more downline volume, as well as potentially enhanced tools sales by dedicated downline IBOs.

I challenge any IBO or prospect to take a close look at your Amway purchases. Are you truly just changing your shopping habits and achieving 100 PV or are you buying things to give away, or buying things that accumulate somewhere? Unless IBOs are selling half of their purchases, they are probably overbuying Amway products. I believe it is simply because of upline teaching which creates a defacto 100 PV quota and an artificial demand for Amway products. I challenge you to examine this closely and make your own conclusions.

The Quota?

  Most LOS groups that I know of, use 100 PV as the benchmark when promoting the Amway business. Many groups also teach that you simply "change" your shopping habits and you can easily reach 100 PV. This teaching creates an artificial demand for Amway products and I believe that Amway sales would take a huge dip if not for this teaching. I also am of the opinion that for this reason, Amway had/has done little to reign in LOS abuses of downline.

100 PV is roughly equal to about $250 to $300 worth of products. Of course, your cost may vary, depending on whether you purchase a lot of CORE Amway products such as laundry detergent, and nutrilite vitamins. For many people, the 100 PV benchmark is seen as the minimum for a business building IBO. The problem for many is that Amway products are not competitively priced, thus it is a hard sell. If I can buy the same or a similar product elsewhere for a fraction of the price, I will. And most consumers feel the same way.

It is why some LOS groups adopted the "buy from yourself and get others to do the same" philosophy. Since most people do not like selling, and because of the high prices of Amway products, simply telling prospects to buy from yourself made the concept palatable. The problem with buy from yourself is that it reaches the borders of being illegal, in my opinion. That is because in a buy from yourself environment, the only way for an IBO to make a profit, is to recruit downline to benefit from the volume rebates. That is because there is no outside customers to bring in cash from outside the circle of IBOs.

What makes this issue even worse is when you have LOS groups such as WWDB creating an even greater problem with programs such as eagle. If 100 PV is an inflated demand for Amway products, incentive programs such as eagle make it worse. How can a single person reasonably be expected to move 200 to 300 PV when most of it is personal consumption? The upline leaders use these programs as an incentive for downline IBOs, but in turn, they benefit financially by having more downline volume, as well as potentially enhanced tools sales by dedicated downline IBOs.

I challenge any IBO or prospect to take a close look at your Amway purchases. Are you truly just changing your shopping habits and achieving 100 PV or are you buying things to give away, or buying things that accumulate somewhere? Unless IBOs are selling half of their purchases, they are probably overbuying Amway products. I believe it is simply because of upline teaching which creates a defacto 100 PV quota and an artificial demand for Amway products. I challenge you to examine this closely and make your own conclusions.

Amway And The BBB?

 Over the years, I have seen literally hundreds (if not more) blogs and testimonials about Amway. Most of them decry the pitfalls of being an Amway IBO. Most of the complaints cite the fact that Amway in general has higher prices than comparable retailers and the fact that the system consisting of voicemail, books, cds and seminars ate up any profits the IBO may have made and resulted in net losses for most. One particular Amway apologist bemoans the fact that the internet is full of bad testimonials about Amway. The reason why there are so many negative testimonials about Amway is because over the years, thousands, possibly millions either had a bad experience for the reasons I cited above or personally know of someone who had a bad experience.   Diamonds who lie during their presentations don't help the cause either.

Amway defenders will often cite the fact that many IBOs sign up and "do nothing" as their defense to this. But I will easily point out that I haven't seen anyone say they signed up, failed to do anything or order products, quit and started blogging about a bad experience in Amway. These defenders will also compare Amway to the gym where people sign up and "do nothing". Whether true or not, I also do not see people who sign up for the gym and "do nothing" complain about not receiving health benefits by simply signing up. It is a very weak defense. Conversely, I have seen numerous accounts of folks like me who did put in effort, some for many years, who did what upline advised and did not see the financial rewards that is promoted in "the plan".

Amway defenders will then try to justify themselves, saying that the better business bureau (BBB) receives few formal complaints about Amway. I will possibly agree with this. Many IBOs never bother to file formal complaints to the BBB or to Amway because in many, probably most cases, the person who quits and may have had a bad experience, was sponsored into the business.  The sponsor was often a friend or family member of the IBO who left the business. Many will simply leave and forget the episode and chalk it up to a learning experience in life. Some will complain but really have to no venue to voice their remorse about joining. Some of us have found the internet to be quite effective in sharing our experiences and our opinions on why the business did not work. This is what one Amway defender calls the "internet war". What I have pointed out is that critics most often simply point out what the IBOs themselves have done. In many cases, the IBO is his own worst enemy. Afterall, critics didn't deny Amway and Quixtar had a connection, nor did critics make up claims about perfect water, etc.

It would appear that most of the problems has a root in the AMO systems, such as WWDB, BWW, LTD, or N21. Now, not all upline leaders are unethical, but it appears that many are, and new IBOs have no way to identify the good from the bad. It also appears that some of these upline leaders will issue bad advice. Advice that is detrimental to the IBOs, but financially beneficial to themselves, such as telling IBOs to never miss a function, or to buy more cds. In many cases, these unethical uplines do not care about IBO success, their goal is just to move as many support materials as possible, so they can fund their "diamond" lifestyle. Sadly, it is also apparent that the diamond lifestyle may be a facade in some cases. An illusion of wealth portrayed as a recruiting tool.

If you recognize some of these warning signs, ask tough questions of your potential sponsor and visit this or some of the blogs linked to this one for more information.

Mentor Or Crook?

 One of the things our upline told us when I was an Amway IBO was how much they cared about their groups. My sponsor told us that these wonderful diamonds could be anywhere, doing anything, but they chose to be at these functions out of love and loyalty to the group.  At the time, upline insisted that nobody earned any money from the sale of support materials. I wonder how many of these wonderful upline mentors would have been at the function if they lost money or made no profit from the functions?   And food for thought, how many "mentors" get paid for mentoring someone?  Isn't paid consultant a better description?

Shortly after I left the business, the lies about the tool income became exposed and the internet also made it easy for prospects to find out this information. Of course, many upline started to talk about tool income, although there is still a great deal of secrecy about the tools and the income generated by tools.

What I find humorous is how some IBOs actually think their upline is some kind of mentor to be followed. As time passes, we are finding that many diamonds are fakes and frauds. There are many "former" diamonds, clearly debunking the myth of lifelong residual income. We are finding diamonds who divorce, contrary to the teaching that Amway saves marriages. Diamonds who are in financial difficulty and some in apparent bankruptcy.

Now these diamonds are no different than the rest of society, but they made much profit in selling themselves as being "above" the crowds. Thay they were financially well versed, that their marriages were built on a foundation of rock. That their lives are in order and that these diamonds are to be honored and copied by their downline faithful. But slowly and surely, they are being exposed and hypocrites and we are finding that they are not living large and debt free as they claimed. They are being exposed as a bunch of crooks with nice suits and nice smiles. It is unfortunate that some of these diamond leaders are suffering misfortunes, but I have trouble drumming up sympathy for them at this point.

So is your upline a mentor to be followed or just a cheap crook?

Behind The Scenes?

 One of the things that the Amway Diamonds and some other leaders do to attract new IBOs is to put on a dog and pony show. They want prospects to think that you can consume Amway products and get others to follow your lead and in a few years, you will be set for life financially, speaking on stages and securing the future for generations to come. They might use props such as pictures of mansion. slideshows of cars, jets, yachts. It looks impressive but based on what I know now, who knows whether the diamonds actually own this stuff or if they are simply showing you a slideshow of "lifestyles of the rich and famous". The reality is very likely that many diamonds are actually living in debt or bonus check to bonus check. It is a fact that more than half of NBA basketball pros end up broke less than 5 years after they retire, and they earn tons more cash than diamonds. Why would a diamond be different than the average Joe, especially when they appear to live beyond their means?

In the few cases where diamond income was exposed, we can see that they were not making the kind of money they would have you believe.  A Triple diamond (documented) was making about half a million a year from Amway. A nice income for sure, but not what people would think, and not enough to save that diamond from chapter 7 bankruptcy. Another WWDB diamond apparently lost a home to foreclosure. Another diamond, unnamed but documented in the book "Amway Motivational Organizations, Behind the Smoke and Mirrors", talks about a diamond who had a gross income of over 3 million dollars, and a net of about $320,000. This diamond was in debt, had back taxes owed to the government, and was working hard to portray the diamond lifestyle while living in serious debt.

Some of these leaders also use religion or Christianity as a means to justify their involvement in the business. For those who know, the Bible is clear that the love of money can lead to destruction. When you have functions such as Dream Night, what does that say? I would also like to note that in cases where these diamond's financials were exposed, there were no significant contributions to charity. I wonder if these charlatans talk a good game but do not contribute time or money to worthy causes? Where are the ten thousand dollar checks they talk about donating to charity? These leaders often refer to themselves as mentors, but any help they provide to downline results in some kind of compensation for them. This is not a mentor, but more like a paid consultant who is not getting effective results.  

Behind the nice suits and the glitz of the functions, I believe that IBOs and prospects would see a world they truly would not want to be a part of. A world where deceit is practically needed to succeed. Where you take advantage of people who trust in you. Where you pretend to be wealthy and free, but in reality, a slave to the mighty dollar. Where you traded a 9-5 job for a job that works the graveyard shift. If you look objectively behind the scenes, you might see what I see.

The Solution?

 I just shake my head when I read about the kinds of advice that Amway IBOS receive from their trusted mentors and upline.   Now let me say that I would have nothing to criticize if downlines were regularly progressing and moving up the ranks and actually making money.  But it’s obvious that most IBOS are spinning their wheels getting nowhere and the only advice that upline seemingly gives is to spend more money on functions and tools that are already proven to be ineffective.  Business not growing?  Buy more tools.  Having trouble sponsoring downline?  Buy more tools, attend more functions.  In real business, people would analyze why the business isn't growing and make adjustments and/or cut expenses.  

When most real business owners are cutting expenses or looking at strategies to bring in more revenue, Amway IBOS and uplines are advising people to spend more money on activities that don’t make them money.  Why not just get a pile of cash and burn it?  The result would be the same.  Keep in mind that the upline profits from the sale of tools and functions so it seems pretty dubious that upline would advise IBOs struggling for their lives to spend more time and money in things that haven’t worked in the first place.  

What is the real solution to a failing Amway business?  I can’t tell you that without a lot more information, but I can tell you that spending more money on things that do not result in more sales and profits is not likely to be the solution.  Most dedicated IBOs lose money because of the tools and functions which are not effective in helping IBOS become profitable.  What makes it more insidious is that uplines profit nicely for giving downline bad advice even if their bad advice results in bigger losses.   It's ironic because one of the things upline teaches is to be accountable.   Yet, uplines are never held to account.  They claim that they have the IBO's best interest at heart, but advising them to spend more money on tools and functions when the IBO's business is not profitable, while profiting off tools, is extremely disingenuous.

When it comes to Amway, it seems apparent to me that the only logical solution is to walk away, seek refunds on whatever you can and find another activity to make some income. Sitting at home watching TV is more profitable to most IBOS that actively trying to run an Amway business.

Better Than Amway?

  One of the silly things I get asked occasionally by IBOs is what’s better than Amway since I opine that Amway is a lousy way to make an extra buck.   Actually, if people actually made money with Amway, I’d probably have nothing to say.  But it is a fact that the vast majority of people make nothing or lose money in Amway.  Typically, losses are because of the tools and functions.   This is why diamonds teach hard core dedication to the system and the teachings of "CORE".  This actually doesn't help the IBO, but it provides financial security for the diamonds in the form of income as a hard core group of IBOs buying standing orders and attending functions provides a steady income for the diamonds.  In some or possibly many cases, a more steady income than Amway income.  

So, what’s better?  Well, staying home and doing nothing is better because you won’t be wasting your time and money chasing an opportunity where you are very likely to lose money. Staying at home to watch “The Simpsons” is better because you’ll be entertained.  But seriously if you want to make extra money? What can be done?  

Get part time work.  You can. Use sone of the extra money plus invest some of that extra income.  This is the route I took when I was young, and it’s paid off big now.  Investing for the long term in bid companies like Apple or Microsoft gives an average return in the range of 20% or more in some cases.  Thus, your money can possibly double every 3-5 years, provided there isn't a recession or bear market.  Start an actual business with a specialty such as installing flooring or security doors.  These can be very part time with good results although sone skill is required.   However, those skills can be learned with some effort.

You can also buy and sell things such as flipping used cars.  Buy a car cheap, fix it up cosmetically and sell it for a profit.  Or find a niche market where you can sell insurance or burial plots part time.  These are real ways you can actually make some extra money.  In the end you need to decide for yourself on what to do but I can tell you that almost anything you choose will be more lucrative than pursuing Amway.    

Good luck in whatever you do, if you choose to pursue anything.  

You Must Believe!

 In the past, and I believe still today, some leaders in motivational groups talk about faith and belief. Speak it into existence. Some of this is the mantra among IBOs who believe they are going diamond. Never mind that statistically, your chance of winning the lottery might be better than going diamond in Amway. In fact, I am certain that there have been more power ball lottery winners than new Amway diamonds in the US and Canada in recent years. But an honest question for IBOs, prospects, and Amway supporters. Do you truly believe that this business works and that you will succeed?

If you truly believe, would you feel confident walking into a bank and meeting a loan officer. Tell the loan officer that all you do is sponsor 6 who sponsor 4 who sponsor 2 and you will be a new platinum (silver). Then all you need is 6 of these groups and the money will roll in forever while you sit on a beach in the Bahamas while money rolls in by the barrel full. And then ask the loan officer for a business loan. If you think this suggestion is crazy, maybe you don't truly believe in the business. Surely a loan officer would have some financial acumen and would be able to determine the viability of the business prior to approving a loan.

Would you feel comfortable talking to your doctor about joining Amway because a diamond makes much more income with less effort? How about a business professor at your local university? Surely someone with an established expertise in business would see the value of an Amway business and join your efforts? Or would the professor laugh you out of his office? Do you truly believe in what you do? If so, do you use the curiosity approach or are you straight up with prospects and invite them to an Amway meeting? If it's the latter and not the former, maybe your belief isn't that strong?

How hard do you work at building your business? If you truly believe that going diamond is the answer to all of life's challenges and problems, why aren't you building it and working on it as if your very life depended on it? Maybe your belief isn't what you think it is? Are you adding people to your downline every week or month? If not, maybe your belief isn't what you think it is?

If you have some doubts about what you are doing, then it is probably because you see IBOs coming and going. Maybe you see monthly losses in your business. Maybe you see people quitting the business regularly. Maybe you see the same old leaders on stage giving the same rah rah speeches. Maybe you see the logic and the common sense in most of the articles posted on this blog. My blog isn't here to make anyone quit Amway. My blog is to provide information to information seekers and to assist people in making informed decisions if they seek information prior to joining Amway and a motivational group such as WWDB or BWW.

Do you truly believe in what you're doing? Joecool truly believes in what he blogs about.

What Do IBOs Know About Business?

 One of the reasons why I believe that people get duped into joining Amway and then quitting or maybe doing nothing is because of the way the business is presented and the way it is actually done. There are many redundant issues that occur and uplines who show the plan will downplay the problems while highlighting the unlikely best case scenario as if this is the norm. These problems then surface when an IBO actually tries to build the business and uplines smooth it over by saying things like someone should never quit or get detail-itis or some other bogus thing to get the focus off the problem.

A big problem is that many prospects join Amway because it is promoted as a way to make quick money. I know many people think they can sell some stuff and make a few quick bucks. That's what I thought at one time also. Many prospects are also told that an Amway business has zero or little overhead, unlike a conventional business. However, many IBOs find that starting an Amway business carries a defacto 100 PV minimum requirement. They might be told that you just change your shopping habits, but many individuals and families cannot possibly consume 100 PV unless they are duped into consuming Amway vitamins which they may never have taken before. An artificial demand is what is created when this happens.  In other words, many people would never take supplements if not for joining the Amway business.

IBOs who may be somewhat serious about business will also be encouraged to get on standing order and to attend all functions. While upline will claim these are optional, they are defacto requirements for those who are interested in building a business with downline. The standing orders and functions can cost a significant about of money depending on an IBO's level of commitment. I would estimate that a somewhat "serious" IBO would probably expend between $150 to $300 a month or more on these "tools". Amounts vary and can be more or less depending on factors such as whether you are single or a couple, and your level of commitment.

So now a new IBO, who is wanting to make a few extra dollars, might be spending between $450 to $600 a month for products and tools, if they are building a business and trying to sponsor downline. Their reward for this will be about $10 a month in the form of a rebate (bonus) from Amway. That is the typical and likely result for the vast majority of new IBOs. Sure, new IBOs have the zeal and excitement to recruit new downline, but that is an overwhelming challenge in North America when Amway's prices are generally not competitive with big retailers and the Amway name carries a stigma in North America. It is not uncommon for someone to be ridiculed just for mentioning Amway in a conversation, at least in my experience and observations.

The bigger problem is that many IBOs know little or nothing about business, thus they trust their upline, whose advice is often to buy more tools, make family sacrifices to attend more functions and to do whatever it takes to obtain more tools. All the while, some uplines are laughing all the way to the bank with tool profits. Whether an IBO succeeds or not is irrelevant to many uplines, as long as tool purchasing IBOs are replaced.  

As the US currently has a depressed economy, some tools kingpins are feeling the effects. We have seen home foreclosures, bankruptcy and some bigshot diamonds selling off their homes. Maybe just maybe they weren't as wealthy as they portrayed? Maybe they are reaping what they were sowing? Maybe this is the fruit on their tree? Maybe these uplines didn't know much about business afterall? :-)

Super Wealthy Diamonds?

 One thing that Amway diamonds like to do is to show off the diamond lifestyle and imply, but not verify their "super wealth".  But what is the diamond lifestyle?  Basically, it’s a show of excessive wealth.  Allegedly they fly first class everywhere and stay in five star hotels.  They wear designer clothes and supposedly buy expensive cars and homes all in cash. They come and go as they please and they only work out of love for their down line.  At least that's the narrative they want you and other prospects to believe.

There are poor saps in the audience who want that so badly that they have tears in their eyes because they want it so badly.  It certainly inspires you to try harder and to get your business booming with growth and excitement.  So, you get the inspiration, but the reality is that the diamond dream will not materialize.  I believe that many diamonds simply live average middle class to upper middle class lives for the most part.  I will go on to elaborate further.

I hate to break this news to IBOs and prospects, but I highly doubt that any diamond lives an uber wealthy diamond lifestyle unless they are up to their ears in debt.  But then again showing you a middle class lifestyle wouldn’t quite be as exciting.  How do I know or suspect this? Simple, just do the math.   Look at the Amway income disclosures.  A Q12 diamond, which is quite rare (the exception, not the rule) makes around $600k annually gross income.  After taxes and expenses, you aren't buying mansions and sports cars in cash while flying the around the world first class.   A family of four playing first class round trip even to functions would easily exceed $12,000 or more.  How many functions do diamonds attend each year?   That's some serious business expenses.

Amway used to report that an average diamond earns about $150k annually but now Amway doesn't disclose the income of an average diamond.    Although Amway no longer reports this, their compensation plan hasn't changed to a point where the average non Q12 diamond would earn significantly more than in the past.  Thus, the average diamond likely earns around $150k annually along with income from tools and functions.  Even if they earn another $100k from tools and functions, that's an income of about $250k.  

Now that’s a nice income for sure, provided the diamond is currently qualified although Amway doesn’t say who is and who is no longer qualified. Assuming they are qualified, their taxes, medical insurance and other expenses and business expenses likely claims about half of that income. 

Let’s say a diamond clears $10k per month after all if the expenses I mentioned and believe me I’m being very generous here.  Well, you can’t buy a home in cash on that income, so you likely have a mortgage.  If a diamond pays $4000 a month for a mortgage, they have $6000 remaining.  You aren’t buying a sports car in cash.  

If the kids go to a private school, more income is gone.  How much is left for first class travel and five star hotels did fabulous vacations.  I’d say a diamond lives a middle class lifestyle.  I believe some of the higher up pins such as crowns might live better but the rest of the diamonds lifestyle probably would not impress you if you saw the truth. 

So where is the Uber diamond wealth?  I don’t know, you tell me. 

Happy Thanksgiving!

 Happy Thanksgiving to all!    Enjoy your families and friends, good food and fellowship.  Joecool will be taking a break until after the Thanksgiving holiday.  

Until later, I have this article for readers to ponder on:

Amway Is Get Rich Slow?

One of the things upline used to say was that Amway is not "get rich quick". I suppose they say this because most people would more likely think scam if they promoted it that way. (I believe Amway is a scam) Ironic, but when you stop and think about it, 2-5 years, build it right and you have willable, residual income for like while walking the beaches of the world? That's not get rich quick? Or is it more of a disclaimer so that the opportunity doesn't sound "too good to be true"? One thing is for sure, even if uplines tell you that it's not get rich quick, it's obvious that IBOs think they will eventually get rich, even if it's not quick. Amway leaders have said "Amway is get rich slow".

What most IBOs don't figure out quickly enough, is that they are unlikely to even make a profit, let alone getting rich from Amway. How many of these retired Amway people exist? Where are all of these retired Amway IBOs who built a business in 2-5 years and then walked away from their business and will be collecting a significant residual income for many years to come afterwards? I don't know of a single person who has done this and none of the Amway defenders and zealots I have encountered over the years has been able to supply this information either.

I can acknowledge that Amway is a business opportunity and will definitely take some work to be able to achieve something. But thinking realistically, what business could you actually be able to walk away in 5 years and not work again? More than likely that business doesn't exist, whether it's Amway or not. Say you opened a conventional business. There wouldn't be many scenarios where you could walk away after a number of years. The business would still require work and maintenance. But for some reason, people are mislead to believe that you can do this in Amway where there is a high attrition rate and where your business can only expand by person to person, which is quite inefficient.

Sadly, many of the people who are attracted to the Amway opportunity are often young people looking to get more out of life. They are often ambitious but may lack a means to gain wealth, thus the appeal of the Amway opportunity is there. Unfortunately, these nice young people are more likely to end up channeling their hard earned dollars into standing orders and functions which will almost guarantee that they end up with a net loss. The bottom line is that not only is Amway not get rich quick. The more likely scenario is that your involvement with Amway will very likely be not getting rich at all. A net loss is the most likely result. The real life results and Amway's own disclosures suggest that I am spot on.

Dream Night Coming Soon?

 If you're an Amway, or in particular, a WWDB Amway IBO, you are likely going to be offered a chance to attend a function called dream night in the next month or two.

As an IBO, I was a member of Worldwide Dream Builders, or WWDB. We often told prospects, when recruiting, that we were with WWDB and did not mention Amway unless the prospect asked. If the prospect didn't ask, then we didn't tell. Apparently, part of the appeal of WWDB was to appear successful, even if you were not. It is probably why in some functions; we were taught to "fake it till you make it". Basically, the premise was to appear successful until you actually became successful. Sadly, there were very few who were "successful". For most serious business builders, business losses were incurred because of their involvement with business support materials, which is promoted heavily by Amway and WWDB Leaders.

WWDB also schedules a major function called "Dream Night". This function might also be called a Winter Conference. This was a one evening function with a sit-down dinner at a cost or about $65 to $75 per person. A major portion of the function was a slide show of the diamond lifestyle. We saw mansions, yachts, jet skis, sports cars and fabulous trips, jewelry and all kinds of extravagant luxuries not intended for the mortal man. But all of this was yours if only you would follow the foolproof WWDB system. I thought it was real when I was an IBO, but I now wonder if these luxuries were really owned by the diamonds. I suspect they may not have been. The money these diamonds supposedly earned was unlimited, or so we thought. I know that a diamond lifestyle isn't as rosy as they want you to think.

Diamonds apparently must keep working. Even if some of them might collect Amway income for a while, if they "walked away" from the business, attrition would kill their businesses pretty quickly and I believe their lucrative tools and functions income would stop the moment they stopped working the business. Imagine building a big sandcastle. It may look nice for a while but once you stop protecting it, the waves will eat it away and eventually return the sand to the ocean. Just like an unmaintained Amway business. For that reason, I don't know of anyone who built their business to diamond and walked away to retire in untold wealth and luxury.

Anyway, getting back to the subject, I ask this question. How many dreams have been built as a result of someone's involvement with Worldwide Dream builders? A WWDB Diamond apparently had his home foreclosed some years ago.  A prominent Triple Diamond apparently suffered the same fate plus some involvement with bankruptcy.  A Double Diamond is not with his wife or WWDB anymore, along with others.  I don't see many reports of any new WWDB diamonds and in fact, I believe there are fewer diamonds in WWDB now than when I was an IBO. Where are the diamonds? Where are the dreams? Whose dreams have been built? Conversely, I have seen people's finances wrecked with WWDB being a major contributor to that problem.   By the way, the home foreclosures and bankruptcy and other incidents were public information so they can be verified if necessary.

If you are being prospected or seeking information on WWDB or other LOS groups, ask them where the success is. Do not accept pictures of checks or pictures of sports cars as proof. Ask for bonafide financial records like real business owners do. If you need more information, my contact information is on my profile. Good luck!

The Con Game?

 Great Thread posted at scam.com:

http://www.scam.com/showthread.php?t=142975

It is stunning to realize the enormity of this con. Multi-million and billion dollar companies, stock exchange listed companies, companies that put on the facade of being a good corporate neighbor and innocent "business" (cough) next door.

Network marketing is a flawed and unsustainable business model that effectively is fed and supported by those on the bottom. Those on the bottom work a job to fund their product purchases. Those spoils of war then are divided up by the upline and sponsor company. Those on the bottom, who use funds from their jobs (rather than product sales) to sustain the "business", are an ever expanding rotating door of new recruits.

Although the products may be of high quality and slickly packaged, and give the impression that you are a marketeer of these sundry goods...the reality is much different. You are required to buy monthly quotas for personal use and recruit your ass off to gain entry into the promised land. The product you are really selling is a dubious "business opportunity"...your real market is "opportunity seekers".

A real business markets and sell goods and services. They are sustained by real retail sales. They order only what they know they can sell. From what I see all these mlms push recruiting as the ticket to the good life. Products and retailing mean nothing.

Another major difference is a real business owner holds title to his business...something he can sell. In mlm, you own nothing but your small product inventory.

The nature of this false and flawed business model will always have in its wake a vast turnover at the bottom of the pyramid structure. Its the nature of the beast and can be no other way, all math aside. The many "losers and the quitters" and dreamers who hang in there waiting for their ship to come in are those who support the top and sponsor company. There will always be a relentless drive to recruit at the bottom as it has nothing to do with true product retailing to support the business but finding and recruiting opportunity seekers. The emphisis is always on finding new recruits rather than selling product. And indeed, many of these mlm businesses put restrictions on the associates ability to retail the product...which subtly strengthens its true goal of recruiting as the primary revenue stream...not product sales.

These "businesses" (cough again) are predatory and prey on the many by appealing to dreams of luxury and a life of ease, especially those with troubles in their life. The start money is low to get into the "business", which is unlike a real business that takes more sizable seed money, some knowledge and guidance and a real business plan.

Those few that actually make sizable incomes from these schemes must live with the knowledge that their life is supported by the broken dreams, efforts and losses of those on the bottom. They conveniently set aside any feelings of culpability after stepping on the bodies of their fellow man so they can proclaim that they worked hard and made it.

There simply is no parallel between a network marketing model as a "business" and how a "normal?" business really works. I understand this because I own a real business that retails real product.

Network marketing is simply the greatest con game of all time. They should all be shut down.

Conditional Friends?

 You hang out with friends, generally people you like and have similar interests. You have good and bad times, but your true friends are there for you when you need them. You move residences, your friends are there to help you move. They may play a round of golf with you, or watch some sporting events, dinners, backyard barbeques, movies, etc. These are folks you will likely end up retiring with and enjoying your golden years.

But suddenly, you get enticed to join Amway. You see the "chance" to get rich, with a shortcut (not get rich quick, but a "shortcut"). You sign up and your sponsor is your new "best" friend. Most of the people you enjoyed being with think Amway is a questionable venture to get involved in. Suddenly, because of what you have been told or taught, you view these same nice people as "broke" or "losers", simply because they do not share the same ambition of untold wealth working 12-15 hours a week. Suddenly, you friends become prospects, or people you want to sponsor so you start recruiting them. Some may join, but most won't. Suddenly you are immersed in recruitment meetings, functions, and avoiding "negative", which is people and events that do not support your Amway business. Sadly, many of these "negative" people were likely what you previously thought of as "good friends".

Now you are missing birthday parties, barbeques, and other social events. Your social events are now recruitment meetings, seminars and Amway business related events. You are taught that these events (birthday parties, etc.) can be put off and your gratification delayed. You can do whatever you want when you go diamond. (Even though there might be only one (1) diamond out of every ten or twenty thousand IBOs) Your dedication will pay off right? Sadly, for most people, even very dedicated people, all they will see is losses on their yearly tax returns, mainly due to the purchase of cds, books, voicemail and function tickets. But these are your "friends" right?

Here's my take on it. Try missing a few meetings or functions. Stop buying cds and see how many "friends" remain from the business. It is likely that your upline will claim that you walked away from the friendship by slowing down on the "system". If that happens, then you have conditional friends, or fair weather friends. They are your "friends" while you are pursuing the same cause. They are your friends when you are attending functions. Are they there for you in bad times?

A short while after I attended my last function (I was still an IBO, just not a business builder), my dad passed away. Not a single one of my IBO "friends" bothered to attend the memorial service. Not a single one of my IBO friends called or dropped by the home to pay their respects. All of my "real" friends, who saw through the AMO smoke and mirrors called to talk to me and/or attended the memorial service.

Are your IBO friends conditional friends? Mine were.

A Part Time Job?

 Many people pitch Amway as an easy, and somewhat shortcut to riches. It's all over the internet, it's what I saw as an IBO, and I have good reason to believe that many still pitch Amway in this manner. I believe that people want to believe that you can create wealth part time in 2-5 years. IBOs and prospects may be told "it's not get rich quick", but 2-5 years to quit your job and live off ongoing lifelong residual income sure sounds like the pitch of a get rich quick scam. It is what has contributed to Amway's current bad reputation.  

A typical IBO (not counting those who do nothing), according to the "plan" will consume and possibly sell some goods on their way to 100 PV, which will earn them about a $10 bonus from Amway. There might be some profit from sales to customers, but there are also expenses involved in running a business. If an IBO is on the system, then their expenses might run from $100 or so to $500 a month, depending on level of commitment (brainwashing). In the end, a flawed system and generally non competitive pricing and products leads to most IBOs eventually quitting. The vast majority of IBOs on the system will wind up with a net loss, even with a tremendous amount of effort. Seems that effort has no relationship with success in Amway. Based on my experience, deception and lies seem to be a better way to succeed in Amway than by hard work.

But what if someone basically worked a part time job instead of Amway? If someone simply got a 20 hour a week job at $10 an hour (not that difficult), someone could earn about $800 a month gross income, or about $9600 a year. In ten years, even with no raises in salary, that person would have earned close to $100,000 more income. That money, if invested into a diverse portfolio can be the nest egg that would allow someone to retire early, or to retire more comfortably than most. And that salary is guaranteed if you work the hours.  

In Amway, there are no assurances of anything, even if you work 40 hours a week. The only assurance if that you will help your upline earn more than yourself by moving products. If you are on the system, you are basically paying your upline (via tool purchases) for the privilege of boosting your upline's volume. It is why uplines teach you to "never quit" and to be "core". These virtues help assure your upline of profits, but does little for the rank and file IBOs. I write this blog post just to stimulate thought amongst IBOs and prospects. There are better and easier options than the Amway opportunity. If you are reading this, you are looking at one potential alternative. It's your job to decide.

IBOs Or Victims?

 I've heard over the years, many IBOs who failed in the Amway opportunity who blamed themselves for not putting in enough effort, not trying hard enough or not working the system. While I don't doubt that some IBOs don't work hard enough, I cannot fathom that so many motivated and eager prospects simply failed because they didn't work hard enough. I believe IBOs are taught to accept failure as their own.

Uplines will tell new IBOs to trust them and that these new IBOs will succeed if only they will follow the advice of the allegedly successful diamond because they have already blazed the trail for you. Ironically, after many IBOs fail, upline will never take responsibility for the advice they issued that led to downline failures. They then turn the tables on their downline and say that their advice is like a buffet. You pick and choose the advice you need and disregard the rest. That is such a bunch of crap that I cannot fathom downline IBOs buying what they are shoveling. A new IBO places their trust in the diamonds because they have achieved the pinnacle of success but a new IBO is supposed to pick and choose which advice to follow? And then failure is the fault of the downline?

Ironically and sadly, these downline, when they ultimately fail, often end up blaming themselves and just disappear unless someone recruits them again. They are often sponsored by friends and family so you won't see them filing complaints against Amway or the uplines who led them astray. Uplines nearly assured their success if only these new IBOs would buy the training materials and attend all of the functions. But many IBOs work hard and do everything outlined by upline only to fail. It is likely because the system doesn't work. Many financial systems are for sale out there and most of them have very little success. Amway is no different, except that uplines promote their systems as sure fire.

It is however, my belief that many or possibly most IBOs are the victims of fraud in that they are given possibly false positive information about the Amway opportunity. They get involved and find out that the system doesn't work, and then they end up quitting with a loss and them blaming themselves. Brilliant for the uplines who profit but in my opinion, it makes IBOs the victims of fraud by upline. Upline profits whether or not their downline makes a cent. Some upline strongly encourage downline to buy more and more tools, even when they know that those downline have no chance of making money in the Amway opportunity. It makes the IBOs victims and it makes the uplines a bunch of crooks.

Diamonds Appear Wealthy?

 One of the things that many IBOs do not understand is where the upline profits actually come from. They think they will obtain passive residual income, but most do not understand how it works or where the money comes from. What most people see instead, is a photocopy of an upline's check, or they may see upline driving a nice car or something like that. They do not understand how the business works and the fact that there are two businesses at work. The Amway opportunity and the tools and functions business. Frankly, most IBOs would be much better off giving their upline a check for $50 each month and never getting involved in the Amway opportunity to begin with.

Upline earns some income from the movement of products. Amway returns about 30% of their gross in the form of bonuses. Most (active business building) IBOs earn 3% while uplines split up the remaining 27% of the bonus. Not such a great deal when you think about it. Also, most IBOs overspend on Amway products. They are not simply replacing what they normally buy. If they did, then there would be tons of former IBOs continuing to move 100 PV or more. Instead, when an IBO quits, they either buy nothing from Amway anymore, or they may use a few products here and there. The opportunity and the way it is promoted simply creates an artificial need for Amway products. If the products were so great, why then after 50 years of business, that IBOs sell less than 5% of their goods to non-IBOs, making IBOs the primary and possibly the only consumer of Amway products?

Then you have the tools business where IBOs don't even get a measly 3% of the profits. Uplines keep all of the tool profits. While this may seem acceptable on the surface, keep in mind that the tools do not work. There is no unbiased evidence that I know of that suggests that the tools create a natural progression of IBOs. I cannot name more than a few new diamonds in the US since I left the business in 1997 or 1998. And even if there were some new diamonds, I believe there were even more who quit or left Amway for other reasons. One might wonder why a diamond would quit in the first place if there really was residual passive income involved.

So where does upline profits come from? Simple, it comes directly out of the pockets of downline. If IBOs actually sold products, then some profits would come from sales and customers. Instead, most Amway sales are simply made from upline to downline. And virtually ALL sales in the tools business comes from upline to downline. Thus, many IBOs spend $500 to $600 a month on products and get back $10 if they reach 100 PV. Then you factor in the $150 to $250 monthly that IBOs typically spend on tools. Suddenly that cheap or no risk opportunity doesn't sound so cheap. And try working it for several years and IBOs can easily rack up tens of thousands of dollars of expenses.

That where upline profits come from folks. Do the math, most IBOs truly would be better off giving upline a check for $50 a month and doing nothing else.

Get Rich Slow?

 One of the things upline used to say was that Amway is not "get rich quick". I suppose they say this because most people would more likely think scam if they promoted it that way. (I believe Amway is a scam) Ironic, but when you stop and think about it, 2-5 years, build it right and you have willable, residual income for like while walking the beaches of the world? That's not get rich quick? Or is it more of a disclaimer so that the opportunity doesn't sound "too good to be true"? One thing is for sure, even if uplines tell you that it's not get rich quick, it's obvious that IBOs think they will eventually get rich, even if it's not quick. Amway leaders have said "Amway is get rich slow".

What most IBOs don't figure out quickly enough, is that they are unlikely to even make a profit, let alone getting rich from Amway. How many of these retired Amway people exist? Where are all of these retired Amway IBOs who built a business in 2-5 years and then walked away from their business and will be collecting a significant residual income for many years to come afterwards? I don't know of a single person who has done this and none of the Amway defenders and zealots I have encountered over the years has been able to supply this information either.

I can acknowledge that Amway is a business opportunity and will definitely take some work to be able to achieve something. But thinking realistically, what business could you actually be able to walk away in 5 years and not work again? More than likely that business doesn't exist, whether it's Amway or not. Say you opened a conventional business. There wouldn't be many scenarios where you could walk away after a number of years. The business would still require work and maintenance. But for some reason, people are misled to believe that you can do this in Amway where there is a high attrition rate and where your business can only expand by person to person, which is quite inefficient on a large scale.

Sadly, many of the people who are attracted to the Amway opportunity are often young people looking to get more out of life. They are often ambitious but may lack a means to gain wealth, thus the appeal of the Amway opportunity is there. Unfortunately, these nice young people are more likely to end up channeling their hard earned dollars into standing orders and functions which will almost guarantee that they end up with a net loss. The bottom line is that not only is Amway not get rich quick. The more likely scenario is that your involvement with Amway will very likely be not getting rich at all. A net loss is the most likely result. The real life results and Amway's own disclosures suggest that I am spot on.

IBOs Talk A Good Game?

 Having blogged for a number of years now, I have observed that IBOs talk a good game about retailing, sponsoring and doing Amway business activities. They will tell you to set yourself up with 20 customers, sponsor 6 frontline, show a number of plans and set up certain follow ups with contacts, and doing other activities supposedly to build an Amway business. I find if humorous when these same IBOs start throwing insults or diverting the discussion when someone asks if they are actually making money. Of course, it would be understandable if a new IBO would admit they had not made a fortune as of yet but it seems that even that response is not forthcoming from IBOs.

It seems that the Amway business is simple enough. Buy some products, sell products and try to sponsor some downline in order to leverage your volume with your downlines. IBOs mistakenly believe that you can build it once correctly and that the income will flow into future generations. What goes unnoticed is that IBOs come and go with such a high frequency, that a business generating residual income would be like a sandcastle on the beach. You might build it nice and big but the waves of attrition would quickly turn that sandcastle into nothing. The same would be true of an Amway business. The IBOs dropping out would wipe out your business unless you are constantly replacing the people who quit. IBOs like to talk about Amway sales and how the company is growing in sales, but the Amway sales have no relationship with making IBOs more profitable.

IBOs may also toss in comments about how they are nicer people or how they are improving their marriage because of the Amway business. I often wonder how that can be when functions and meetings take you away from your family and spouse. I suppose it could be because the uplines talk about people being nicer or tossing out lies about Amway and the AMOs saving marriages. I remember a WWDB diamond talking about how WWDB members had a 2% divorce rate while the rest of society has a 60% divorce rate. Ironically, that diamond's marriage ended in divorce. I believe this crap is still taught as a WWDB IBO who blogs, had mentioned this tidbit on his blog last year. I don't believe Amwayers or anyone else has a higher or lower rate of divorce than society but it becomes an issue when uplines teach it and their downlines repeat it.

So it would seem that IBOs talk a good game. They know what to say and how to act, but they're like poker players who are bluffing. If you call them on it, they are likely to fold in their hands because they don't have the goods. It is why many Amway discussions turn into a insult contest, when the IBO suddenly gets confronted with facts that are contrary to upline teaching. It's usually quite funny but I wonder if these folks question their upline or go on their merry way repeating uplines lies? It becomes apparent to everyone but the IBO when they are repeating crazy stuff taught by their upline. Good luck to anyone who tries to build this business against nearly insurmountable odds.

The System Is Proven?

 One of the disturbing things I have noticed about Amway IBOs and IBO leaders is how they will tell downline to trust them. To trust them as they have already blazed a trail. No need to re-invent the wheel. Just ride the coattails of your upline to success. The system is proven. Many Amway IBOs take this to heart and put forth tremendous effort.  They attend all the meetings and functions, buy the tools, attend all of the teaching sessions and do their best to follow upline guidance. Then when they fail, upline will shun them and tell them that the failure is their own. That they are personally responsible for failure.

Now I am not talking about IBOs who sign up and do nothing or never place an order. I do believe that the fact that many IBOs sign up and do nothing brings concerns about how these IBOs were recruited, but I did not recall ever seeing an IBO do nothing and then complain that Amway was a scam or anything like that.

I have found, however, that many people who are critical of Amway and the systems, put forth much effort, did everything they were told, and did not find the success that upline promoted, or in some cases, guaranteed. My former sponsor was still active, last I heard and has been in Amway for over 15 years. I do not believe he has ever gone beyond platinum, and I know that he was never a Q12 platinum. Some Amway apologists might see being a platinum as a bonus, but when you are hard core sold out to the systems, platinum is a break even or make a small profit business. Factor in that time spent by husband and wife and these folks are breaking even or making a fraction of minimum wage. Is this the dream that will allow you to buy mansions with a cash payment?

What is also disturbing is how people will tout the system as responsible for any success but hide the vast majority that the system doesn't help. Sure, some will succeed in Amway, but for every success, there are hundreds if not thousands who fail. And if you consider diamond as the benchmark of success, the failures could be in the millions. As I said, some succeed, but very few in relation to the number who try. Going diamond is probably less common in the US than winning the lottery.

Succeed and the systems and upline take credit but fail or quit and it is your own responsibility. Are these the kinds of leaders or mentors you want advice from? Where's the personal responsibility of the leaders and mentors? There are many stories of IBOs doing exactly what they were advised, only to lose money and/or fail. Where's the responsibility of the leaders? The tools system is win win for the upline leaders with the downlines getting a lose lose situation.

Business Mentality?

One of the catch phrases that IBOs spout quite often is that you need a "business mentality". Those of us who have an "employee mentality" simply cannot cut the mustard in Amway. I find this ironic since the vast majority of Amway IBOs have a job. A job that they NEED in order to pay for their Amway business. A job that pays for their voicemail, cds, functions and books, in addition to the cost of the Amway products. Basically, most IBOs would be out of business almost immediately without their job income to support their Amway business.

Apparently, a business mentality, as taught by AMO leaders, is one that doesn't expect quick profits, despite upline's claim that the Amway business has low risk and low overhead. A business mentality is also one where you reinvest any or all profits back into buying support materials. A business owner doesn't expect to make a profit for 5 years. Many of these claims are taught by unethical uplines and unfortunately, many IBOs accept the teaching and buy into it. They lure in prospects by talking about low risk and the ability to profit right away, but the teaching later changes to reinvesting money into their business and not expecting profit for several years. A bait and switch of sorts.

Now it is true that a business owner might have to think and view things differently than an employee. For example, an employee might do a great job from 9-5 but after 5:00 pm, that employee may be headed home to care for his or her family, or to participate in some exercise or recreation. The business owner might be inclined to stay after hours to finish a job because he or she may have invested much, and will want to make sure that the business succeeds. However, Amway is promoted as part time, do as much or as little as you want, on your own time, when you have time.

It is my suspicion that uplines want their downline IBOs to adopt a business owner mentality, not because they want downline to succeed, but because it instills a dedication to the tools purchases and it also takes an IBO's focus off profits for a few years. Thus, IBOs think they are successful (without profit) if they are listening to standing order, attending all the functions and showing the plan. It is a gimmick used to retain IBOs who are not profitable. If IBOs were actually making money, there would be little need to continue to motivate them with an endless supply of cds and functions. But because most IBOs lose money or make little, the average IBO must be taught that a "business owner" commonly loses money for a number of years, or that they must continue to reinvest their profits in order to succeed.

In posting this, I say to IBOs, just make a profit by selling goods. That is all the motivation you need. Keep track of your bottom line and look at the return on your investment of time and money. That is the action of a real business owner and the real "business owner mentality". Which are you?

Bad Advice?

 In the Amway business, most active IBOs are advised to trust upline. To think of upline as a coach or a mentor. These upline mentors or coaches are supposed to have your best interest at heart and they will guide you to success if only you will be open to learning. (I will add that most mentors don't get paid for advice and this is not the same thing as perhaps a football coach who might be compensated) Many uplines, including my former uplines used to coin the term "copy" or duplicate. If you can do that you will be successful. Even the simplest of people can copy. The upline may crack a joke about getting thru school by copying. Thus, many IBOs follow exactly what their upline advises them to do.

But then uplines turn the responsibility away from themselves. Many Amway defenders will also claim that downline should not simply follow the advice of upline. They may make a ridiculous claim that standing orders and functions contain advice that must be discerned. That information is like a buffet. You pick and choose what you need and discard the rest. If you are a new IBO or prospect, let me tell you that is a load of guano (crap) that is being heaped on you. Your upline is touted as having experience and wisdom in the Amway business, which is why you are paying good money for voicemail, books, cds, and functions. So why would their advice be something you pick and choose? How would a new IBO know what to pick and choose?

Imagine hiring a guide for a trek in the wilderness. The guide is supposed to be an experienced outdoorsman, perhaps an expert. So if he recommends that you eat certain plants or fruits, you trust that he is going to guide you right. Imagine eating something that made you sick to your stomach, only to have the guide tell you that he just points out plants and fruits and you have to discern which is good for you and which is not. You would fire the guide and tell everyone you know not to use that guide anymore.

But here we have these "systems" such as Network 21, WWDB or BWW that have been "guiding" IBOs for up to 20 years or more in some cases, and the number of diamonds are negligible. Sure, there are many new platinums, but many tool consuming platinums have been found to be losing money or making very little money for their efforts. What's more, it would appear that Amway is losing ground in North America based on sales. One can reasonably guess that any new platinums that break are simply replacing the volume for a platinum that no longer exists or a platinum that no longer qualifies. My former upline diamond appears to have all new qualifying platinums from the time I was in the business and here's the kicker. My former diamond had 6 downline rubies. As far as I know, none of these rubies are qualified as platinum anymore.

Uplines also program their downline to take responsibility for the failure. Thus, you have IBOs who did everything that was asked of them, only to fail. Yet these IBOs often blame themselves for their failure. It is my opinion that former IBOs who did everything asked of them only to fail should file a formal complaint against their LOS with the better business bureau. Amway defenders like to think that a lack of formal complaints means that the system works when clearly, there is no unbiased substantial evidence to suggest that the system works. It looks like some succeed in spite of the system, not because of.

The catch in all this is uplines skirting responsibility for the outcomes of those they "mentor" and profit from. IBOs should ask if upline really cared about their success, why do you have to pay for any help that you receive from your upline diamond?

Sasquatch And Amway Retirees?

 I was watching a show on Discovery channel the other night about Bigfoot/Sasquatch. It was followed by a show about evidence of UFOs. It made me start to think about these phenomena. It seems like everyone has heard about or knows something about Sasquatch (Big foot) and/or UFOs. There are many documentaries showing pictures, videos and evidence of both, but to date, there is no bonafide evidence that these things exist.  The pictures and videos aren't always authenticated and some are very likely made up or doctored.  You'd think that a body or bones of a Sasquatch would turn up somewhere, sooner or later, or we would find compelling evidence of a spaceship from another galaxy.

It sounds just like stories of people who built a diamond ship, then "walked away" from their businesses, retired in the lap of luxury and did nothing while the money kept rolling in. I heard numerous scenarios about this happening, but looking back, all the diamonds kept working and since Joecool left the business, the diamond either kept working, or quit or got terminated. But I never heard anyone name some higher up Amway pin who built a business, and then walked away from it to travel the beaches of the world while hundreds of thousands of dollars kept rolling in. Many have heard about it, but nobody seems to be able to name any of these folks. I mean after over 60 years in existence, you'd think some of these folks would exist, especially when it seems to be a selling point of the business for many AMOs.  I would note however, that the selling point does not come from the Amway corporation.

It is my opinion that Sasquatch, UFOs and retired Amway's diamonds (with significant Amway income) are nonexistent. If these folks existed, there should be at least some shred of evidence of it. The lack of evidence indicates to me that it is either nonexistent or so rare that nobody can display bonafide proof. I mean there aren't any T-Rexs roaming the earth anymore, but fossil evidence proves that they existed at one time.

Keeping in mind that the Amway business has a high attrition rate, coupled with low sales to non IBOs and you can easily conclude that residual and significant income is nearly impossible. An Amway business that is left alone will deteriorate like a sandcastle does as the waves wash it away. You (in theory) could possible walk away from an Amway business for a while and collect some income, but you won't be collecting enough income to live the "diamond lifestyle" as portrayed by diamonds in their functions and open meetings. I'm not even sure that active diamonds can comfortably afford that lifestyle even when building their businesses. There is ample evidence to support my claim. Diamonds losing homes to foreclosure, former diamonds revealing secrets about their income. If you really believe you can walk away from your Amway business and collect untold wealth, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. :-)

Doomed IBOs?

 Even though diamonds and big pins in Amway like to show off fancy material goods such as sports cars and mansions, the vast majority of rank and file IBOs will never get close to attaining those kinds of trappings. In fact, once an IBO agrees to get on standing order and to attend functions, that IBO is more than likely doomed for failure. Most business building IBOs don't even make enough income to cover the expense of their voicemail subscription. When you take a look at the Amway business presentation, you will see that most IBOs who qualify for a bonus will earn something like $10 a month. Thus all those lower level IBOs are guaranteed a net loss by participating in the system.

One could argue that simply consuming 100 PV would put you at a loss, except that technically, it's not really a business expense. But it can be a business expense if you are buying products just to familiarize yourself with the products and/or to reach your PV bracket. In other words, if you are buying stuff that you don't need in the name of earning a bonus. I had a fellow cross line IBO who actually went and purchased 1000 PV in a month because our upline diamond had a 1000 pin play day and this IBO had no downline. Thus he likely purchased most of if not all of that 1000 PV by himself.

Because of a spotty Amway reputation and the fact that it's very hard to sponsor downline and get retail customers, most IBOs will be doomed for failure once they sign on to become IBOs. Their problems and financial losses mount and get exponentially worse once they agree to sign on and dedicate themselves to the system. While the system expenses may seem benign at first, IBOs often find that losses can reach or exceed tens of thousands of dollars in a relatively short period of time.

In my opinion, what makes all of this so sickening and somewhat even evil is that an IBO or prospect will be told that the system is proven. That you are practically guaranteed success by following the system. Then after spending thousands of dollars and not making a dime, these same IBOs might be told that they are at fault for not making it big in Amway. That failure is the fault of the IBO. Or that the IBO did not follow the system as prescribed. I know that many IBOs, whether they work hard or follow the system or not, are still doomed for failure because the system doesn't work. There is no bonafide and unbiased evidence of any kind that indicate that the system works. The system only works if you are one who profits by selling the system. The rest of the herd ends up losing money. There is no question about it.