Looking back at my IBO days, I can now laugh at some of the weird stuff we did and believe it or not, I have reason to believe that my old LOS, WWDB still teaches some of this and some other major groups also teach it. I believe some of these practices were the reason why some people refer to the Amway business as cult or having cult like qualities. If you recognize some of these practices, you might be in an unethical group and you should ask your upline the tough questions and possibly reconsider or reprioritize your involvement in the business.
Submission to upline was one of the things we were told. Our group was told that upline would never purposely lead us astray so we should trust them and never try anything without checking upline. Afterall, upline had experience and probably had all the answers. Some of this checking upline included asking permission to get married, buy a car or a home, or even something as small as purchasing a camera. The upline said maybe someone upline might have advice on how to get a good deal on a camera so no harm in checking upline before making a purchase. It is my guess that upline didn't want your disposable income being spent on anything other than standing orders and functions.
Late meetings. Our upline was into late meetings, many occuring after midnight. I suppose it was a show of loyalty and dedication to the upline and the system. In reality, it made most people angry at their jobs because they had to wake up early to go to work. For me it made me mad at our upline because the meetings taught us nothing of substance and it just made us tired. Our upline used to talk about time being important but it was never important enough to make him show up on time for his own late night meetings. Another cult like factor - sleep deprivation.
Secrets. Anytime we asked about how much income uplines may have been earning, we were either told it's none of our business or shown a photocopy of a 5 year old bonus check that someone upline may have received. Our proof that the business worked was upline showing off pictures of sports cars and mansions. Of course we now find that some WWDB diamonds had homes foreclosed, and one prominent triple diamond had some dealings in bankruptcy court. Looking back, I suspect that many diamonds have mortgages, which would be nor problem except that these leaders scoffed at the sutpidity of having a loan. That diamonds pay cash for everything, including homes. My former sponsor still lives in a run down rented home beause he won't purchase a home unless he's got the cash. My former sponsor is a physician so I find his position on buying a home preposterous. His oldest child, a son probably grew up deprived of his parents because of dedication to the system and the functions.
Losing money is success. Many times, our group was told that losing money was a sign of success. It was success because we were investing in our futures. That the business really is not about money but about friendships. I suppose upline taught this because everyone was losing money so it was nice to hear that success was around the corner, and that we were all nicer people and on our way to success if we just attended more functions and bought more standing orders. People who sold off some of their personal property were edified if they did so to attend a function. Obviously these folks were not advised to run their business within their means. Upline even said that going into debt was okay, but only if the debt was to invest in the business or to buy extra function tickets.
While some of these practices seem bizarre, I believe it is because the upline advice was self serving and meant to channel their downline's dollars into tool purchases. It is the only conclusion I can make. What's your conclusion?
Tuesday, November 30, 2010
Monday, November 29, 2010
Avoiding Negative?
One of the silly things taught by uplines is for IBOs to avoid negative. This was commong practice when I was an IBO, and apparently, still taught by some leaders and groups. Don't read the newspaper, don't watch TV, and avoid people in general, who are negative about the Amway business. My upline would say that the world is too negative so our minds needed to be filtered with positive thoughts so that we can flourish in the Amway business. I believe this is one of the reasons why some people associate Amway and the AMOs (Amway Motivational Organizations) as cults. Tell people how they should think and then bombard them with only happy thoughts about Amway. Everything else is "negative" and should be filtered out.
Sadly, many IBOs buy into this and start avoiding family and friends simply because they may not view Amway in a positive light. Certainly, some IBOs don't shut out family and friends, but it seems that enough of them do, at least while they are involved in building a big business. It was my experience and I still see evidence that this is not uncommon practice even today. If these AMOs were churning out new and sustainable success stories, we would probably not be talking about this but instead, IBOs and prospects get used and abused and spit out by the system, all under the guise of being mentored by uplines. Most IBOs, even those who put in an earnest effort end up with a net loss, despite their dedication to the system and adherence to upline advice. I don't know of anyone who has been able to name more than a dozen new diamonds from the US in the last 10 years or so. It sure looks like Amway in the US and Canada is shrinking,, save for some pockets and areas where there is the appearance of "growth".
I would point out the functions as evidence of shrinkage. My former sponsor told me of an FED where IBOs filled the (at the time) Seattle Kingdome. 50,000+ IBOs in attendance. I also attended a family reunion function at the Rose Garden in Portland where there were 15 - 20,000 IBOs in attendance. Dream Night was held in nevies that sat about 2500 people and more and more, we are seeing smaller venues for these types of functions. Maybe people are simply more aware of what being an IBO entails and simply avoid it? Maybe it's just a coincidence?
But hopefully, someone out there who reads this will understand that avoiding all negative is a silly thing to teach. Unless you live in some Utopian society, there will always be some negative. That's just life. Avoiding the news or only taking in positive can make you apathetic. How would you be able to vote or know what the current events are? Do you rely on your upline for this? Are you living in an Amway/AMO world where you only associate with IBOs and "happy" people? Do you argue and attack opposing views? If you're about avoiding negative, you should take this message to heart and seriously think about what you are being taught by your (well compensated) mentors.
Good luck in whatever you decide.
Sadly, many IBOs buy into this and start avoiding family and friends simply because they may not view Amway in a positive light. Certainly, some IBOs don't shut out family and friends, but it seems that enough of them do, at least while they are involved in building a big business. It was my experience and I still see evidence that this is not uncommon practice even today. If these AMOs were churning out new and sustainable success stories, we would probably not be talking about this but instead, IBOs and prospects get used and abused and spit out by the system, all under the guise of being mentored by uplines. Most IBOs, even those who put in an earnest effort end up with a net loss, despite their dedication to the system and adherence to upline advice. I don't know of anyone who has been able to name more than a dozen new diamonds from the US in the last 10 years or so. It sure looks like Amway in the US and Canada is shrinking,, save for some pockets and areas where there is the appearance of "growth".
I would point out the functions as evidence of shrinkage. My former sponsor told me of an FED where IBOs filled the (at the time) Seattle Kingdome. 50,000+ IBOs in attendance. I also attended a family reunion function at the Rose Garden in Portland where there were 15 - 20,000 IBOs in attendance. Dream Night was held in nevies that sat about 2500 people and more and more, we are seeing smaller venues for these types of functions. Maybe people are simply more aware of what being an IBO entails and simply avoid it? Maybe it's just a coincidence?
But hopefully, someone out there who reads this will understand that avoiding all negative is a silly thing to teach. Unless you live in some Utopian society, there will always be some negative. That's just life. Avoiding the news or only taking in positive can make you apathetic. How would you be able to vote or know what the current events are? Do you rely on your upline for this? Are you living in an Amway/AMO world where you only associate with IBOs and "happy" people? Do you argue and attack opposing views? If you're about avoiding negative, you should take this message to heart and seriously think about what you are being taught by your (well compensated) mentors.
Good luck in whatever you decide.
Saturday, November 27, 2010
What Prospects Often Don't Know
One thing that I was unaware of as an IBO was that our uplines were profiting from our tools purchases. I was in WWDB at the time and I was told very clearly that nobody made money from the tools and in fact, I was also told that WWDB was a non profit organization. Both of these statements were bold lies told by WWDB leaders and they have never been held accountable. We were told that upline cared about us and our success, thus they spent their own money to fly to functions to teach us how to succeed.
Eventually, the internet amd other media made it impossible to cover up these lies and uplines funally admitted that they profitted from tools. However, it looks like they downplayed the magnitude of the tools profits. I believe some upline may have made most of their income fro tools, especially leaders who may have fallen out of qualification. Now the upline admits they make some profits from tools, but there is still a great deal of secrecy in the tools business. What makes the whole thing ironic is that the uplines allegeldy are not supposed to entice Amway prospects into joining by using the tools money as a draw, but at the same time, they are told that tools are vital to their success.
I wonder how many prospects or IBOs would be fired up about buying tools if they knew that their uplines might not currently be qualified at the level they claim to be, and knowing that the uplines will make a ton of money whether or not you make a cent as an IBO? Also, some uplines are shameless is pushing the tools on downline. Sure they might cut the newest guy a break and loan them some cds, but once that IBO decides to start building downline, they are likely to be told that a real business owner buys their own tools, or that a business owner needs to be a leader and purchase extra tools for their downline.
How would you feel uf your upline is touting themselves as a financial genious but in the background, their homes are foreclosed or they have financial difficulties? What if your upline touts their morals and you find out they are divorced or getting a divorce? What if your upline said Amway saves marriages? Your upline certainly won't say they are perfect, but conversely, they should be held to the highest standards if they are using their status to be able to sell tools and make large profits.
Many prospects and IBOs don't know this, but I hope they take it to heart.
Eventually, the internet amd other media made it impossible to cover up these lies and uplines funally admitted that they profitted from tools. However, it looks like they downplayed the magnitude of the tools profits. I believe some upline may have made most of their income fro tools, especially leaders who may have fallen out of qualification. Now the upline admits they make some profits from tools, but there is still a great deal of secrecy in the tools business. What makes the whole thing ironic is that the uplines allegeldy are not supposed to entice Amway prospects into joining by using the tools money as a draw, but at the same time, they are told that tools are vital to their success.
I wonder how many prospects or IBOs would be fired up about buying tools if they knew that their uplines might not currently be qualified at the level they claim to be, and knowing that the uplines will make a ton of money whether or not you make a cent as an IBO? Also, some uplines are shameless is pushing the tools on downline. Sure they might cut the newest guy a break and loan them some cds, but once that IBO decides to start building downline, they are likely to be told that a real business owner buys their own tools, or that a business owner needs to be a leader and purchase extra tools for their downline.
How would you feel uf your upline is touting themselves as a financial genious but in the background, their homes are foreclosed or they have financial difficulties? What if your upline touts their morals and you find out they are divorced or getting a divorce? What if your upline said Amway saves marriages? Your upline certainly won't say they are perfect, but conversely, they should be held to the highest standards if they are using their status to be able to sell tools and make large profits.
Many prospects and IBOs don't know this, but I hope they take it to heart.
Wednesday, November 24, 2010
Paying In Cash?
When I was an IBO, I was always taught that diamonds pay cash for everything. That one day, after following the foolproof WWDB system, that I too, would be strolling on the beaches of the world, with cash rolling into my bank account with no worries in the world. We were told that diamonds pay cash for all purchases, even homes and other large ticket items. As evidence, the diamonds would show slideshows of mansions and sports cars, golf club memberships and other lavish items. All paid for in cash we were told. I have reason to believe that WWDB still teaches this except that it is probably a bunch of lies.
First of all, in looking back, the group really had no way of knowing what was paid for or not. We just assumed that diamond paid so much money that everything the diamonds spoke of were true. However, there have been events, some very recent that exposed some of the apparent lies told by these diamonds. There were two (2) diamonds whose home foreclosures became public knowledge and a prominent triple diamond who was involved in bankruptcy proceedings. Now your home cannot be foreclosed if it's paid for in cach right? Technically, nobody would care whether a diamond's home was mortgaged or paid for, but when diamonds parade in front of a crowd bragging about wealth, and then telling the audience that they too will achieve the same success by following the system and upline advice, well that's a bit misleading in my opinion. So many people in the audience are practically crying because they want what the diamonds are flaunting, except that possibly, many of these diamonds don't even have what they are selling.
A average diamond might make about $150,000 (according to Amway) and let's just say another $150,000 from selling support materials. When you factor in taxes and business expenses such as travel to and from functions, what's left over certainly is not going to allow you tp purchase million dollar mansions. Some higher up pins might make a bit more, but still, purchasing mansions and other luxuries in cash is a stretch. It would be my guess that most diamonds indeed have a mortgage on their homes and may even have car payments. That's not a crime but it is unethical to lie about your income in order to recruit new downlines.
For IBOs and other newbies, if your uplines are bragging about paying for homes and other things in cash, ask them to show proof of these claims. I can show you pictures of multi million dollar mansions and sports cars, it doesn't mean that I paid for them in cash. But then again, admitting to having a mortgage or having monthly car payments are quite as attractive or exciting as paying for these things in cash.
First of all, in looking back, the group really had no way of knowing what was paid for or not. We just assumed that diamond paid so much money that everything the diamonds spoke of were true. However, there have been events, some very recent that exposed some of the apparent lies told by these diamonds. There were two (2) diamonds whose home foreclosures became public knowledge and a prominent triple diamond who was involved in bankruptcy proceedings. Now your home cannot be foreclosed if it's paid for in cach right? Technically, nobody would care whether a diamond's home was mortgaged or paid for, but when diamonds parade in front of a crowd bragging about wealth, and then telling the audience that they too will achieve the same success by following the system and upline advice, well that's a bit misleading in my opinion. So many people in the audience are practically crying because they want what the diamonds are flaunting, except that possibly, many of these diamonds don't even have what they are selling.
A average diamond might make about $150,000 (according to Amway) and let's just say another $150,000 from selling support materials. When you factor in taxes and business expenses such as travel to and from functions, what's left over certainly is not going to allow you tp purchase million dollar mansions. Some higher up pins might make a bit more, but still, purchasing mansions and other luxuries in cash is a stretch. It would be my guess that most diamonds indeed have a mortgage on their homes and may even have car payments. That's not a crime but it is unethical to lie about your income in order to recruit new downlines.
For IBOs and other newbies, if your uplines are bragging about paying for homes and other things in cash, ask them to show proof of these claims. I can show you pictures of multi million dollar mansions and sports cars, it doesn't mean that I paid for them in cash. But then again, admitting to having a mortgage or having monthly car payments are quite as attractive or exciting as paying for these things in cash.
Tuesday, November 23, 2010
Where Are They?
One of the things many IBOs hope for is the dream of receiving income from having built a big Amway business, and then "walking away" from the business and retiring young while enjoying a life of luxury. To "prove" that this is possible, some diamonds may shows off pictures of cars, mansions, and other luxuries, all allegedly attained by having built a big Amway business. And sadly, many young people get trapped into believing that they can all achieve this a with 2+5 years of work. It's basically a myth.
But where are these mysterious people who built sizable Amway businesses and simply "walked away" while the money kept rolling in? There are several issues to think about for people who believe that people "walked away" from an Amway business and continue to collect a significant income.
First of all, if someone truly could walk away and live in luxury, why are there countless stories of diamonds, double diamonds and some higher, who quit or resigned from Amway? Why did they not exercise the option of walking away? For certain Amway bonuses, there is a "side volume" requirement. How do "retired" IBOs continue to meet this requirement? None of their downline ever quits despite the fact that an overwhelming number of IBOs quit each year. Who helps these downline while their upline is walking the beaches of the world and how can anyone maintain a certain volume after walking away? Most IBOs find their business fall apart immediately after they stop adding downline. Also, how do you meet the minimum sales/customer PV if you are sitting on the beaches drinking Mai Tais?
I believe the answer is simple. There aren't people walking the beaches of the world while Amway cash rolls in by the truckload. Sure, some people might still be earning some income by having repeat customers or having some downline who remain active when you leave the business, but I seriously doubt that there are people jetsetting and traveling to the beaches of the world with no financial worries simply by working 2-5 years as often suggested in recruitment or open meetings. If these people exist, why can't anyone name even a single one of them? Why do crown ambassadors keep working busy schedules? Why are diamonds always scrambling from function to function if they could truly walk away and enjoy life with income pouring in from Amway? Why are there stories of diamonds having homes foreclosed and a prominent triple diamond involved in bankruptcy proceedings a few years back?
I think the answer is quite obvious. It's because someone walking away from an Amway business while income pours in is like chasing the end of a rainbow. You can see it but you can never grab it. If not, where are all of these mysterious people?
But where are these mysterious people who built sizable Amway businesses and simply "walked away" while the money kept rolling in? There are several issues to think about for people who believe that people "walked away" from an Amway business and continue to collect a significant income.
First of all, if someone truly could walk away and live in luxury, why are there countless stories of diamonds, double diamonds and some higher, who quit or resigned from Amway? Why did they not exercise the option of walking away? For certain Amway bonuses, there is a "side volume" requirement. How do "retired" IBOs continue to meet this requirement? None of their downline ever quits despite the fact that an overwhelming number of IBOs quit each year. Who helps these downline while their upline is walking the beaches of the world and how can anyone maintain a certain volume after walking away? Most IBOs find their business fall apart immediately after they stop adding downline. Also, how do you meet the minimum sales/customer PV if you are sitting on the beaches drinking Mai Tais?
I believe the answer is simple. There aren't people walking the beaches of the world while Amway cash rolls in by the truckload. Sure, some people might still be earning some income by having repeat customers or having some downline who remain active when you leave the business, but I seriously doubt that there are people jetsetting and traveling to the beaches of the world with no financial worries simply by working 2-5 years as often suggested in recruitment or open meetings. If these people exist, why can't anyone name even a single one of them? Why do crown ambassadors keep working busy schedules? Why are diamonds always scrambling from function to function if they could truly walk away and enjoy life with income pouring in from Amway? Why are there stories of diamonds having homes foreclosed and a prominent triple diamond involved in bankruptcy proceedings a few years back?
I think the answer is quite obvious. It's because someone walking away from an Amway business while income pours in is like chasing the end of a rainbow. You can see it but you can never grab it. If not, where are all of these mysterious people?
Monday, November 22, 2010
Opposing Views Are Welcome
One thing that many IBOs and Amway supporters seem to shy away from is opposing views. Recently, a WWDB IBO who runs his own blog decided to disallow any comments on his blog. And that certainly is his right as a blog owner, but it seems to be common among Amway defenders. Amway's biggest defender and self proclaimed Amway spokesperson IBOFightback is like this also. While he might say he welcomes opposing views, his actions suggest otherwise. He banned Joecool (without warning) from posting on his website simply because I pointed out that Amway's disclosure of the average IBO income did not include IBOs that are considered to be inactive.
But on this blog, I allow any comments, even if they are contrary to my opinion. Amway supporters and critics alike are welcome to have healthy debates over what I see as issues with the Amway business. I believe that open debate can sometimes result in solutions, and can also allow some self discovery for IBOs and critics alike. For those who only allow comments in line with your own opinions, is well, like living in some sheltered community and those who do so often have trouble coping with the real world.
Another valuable benefit is for iformation seekers. Since Amway appears to have very limited information about being an IBO and IBO experiences, this blog can be valuable for many and over the years, I have received positive comments confirming that. Over the years, my former (and other groups) uplines told many lies and deceived downline about tools, tool profits and other things. This went unchallenged until the internet exposed many of these lies. Sadly, many IBOs simply deny or refuse to believe the obvious. That their upline leaders may have taken advantage of them. I also believe that many IBOs to thise day are taken advantage of by their upline, but refuse to deal with it.
It looks like however, that Amway is declining in the US and Canada. And I believe that free flowing information is a big part of that. Uplines have difficulty in covering up recruitment tactics that might be less than honest. Blogs and forums have also played a part in providing sunshine in important areas. It is why Joecool has not walked away from blogging yet. I believe Amway has made some progress in addressing some of these issues, especially with their newest Amway Answers blog, but until the lying uplines are confined, Joecool's blog and opposing views will continue to exist.
But on this blog, I allow any comments, even if they are contrary to my opinion. Amway supporters and critics alike are welcome to have healthy debates over what I see as issues with the Amway business. I believe that open debate can sometimes result in solutions, and can also allow some self discovery for IBOs and critics alike. For those who only allow comments in line with your own opinions, is well, like living in some sheltered community and those who do so often have trouble coping with the real world.
Another valuable benefit is for iformation seekers. Since Amway appears to have very limited information about being an IBO and IBO experiences, this blog can be valuable for many and over the years, I have received positive comments confirming that. Over the years, my former (and other groups) uplines told many lies and deceived downline about tools, tool profits and other things. This went unchallenged until the internet exposed many of these lies. Sadly, many IBOs simply deny or refuse to believe the obvious. That their upline leaders may have taken advantage of them. I also believe that many IBOs to thise day are taken advantage of by their upline, but refuse to deal with it.
It looks like however, that Amway is declining in the US and Canada. And I believe that free flowing information is a big part of that. Uplines have difficulty in covering up recruitment tactics that might be less than honest. Blogs and forums have also played a part in providing sunshine in important areas. It is why Joecool has not walked away from blogging yet. I believe Amway has made some progress in addressing some of these issues, especially with their newest Amway Answers blog, but until the lying uplines are confined, Joecool's blog and opposing views will continue to exist.
Friday, November 19, 2010
Another Fallacy Perpetutated By AMOs?
There has been much debate by both critics and Amway IBOs and supporters recently over an issue regarding a WWDB Dream Night function. The issue was an honest question over the cost of a Dream Night Ticket. Well, needless to say, the IBO in question ended up deciding that his blog will no longer accept comments. And while that is certainly his right, he made a statement that IBOs may be told, but makes no sense. Here is the statement:
"Here is a tip when doing research, if you have a question about a company why not give the actual company a call? Wow what a concept."
While on the surface, that me seem logical. If you have a question about how a company works, that might make perfect sense. But the Amway opportunity, along with the attached motivational tools companies, make that a touchy situation. What are you supposed to do? Call WWDB and ask if they are a good company? Call WWDB and ask if they scam downline? What if you call and ask WWDB if most IBOs on their system make money or lose money? If you look at the average income of the majority of IBOs amd factor in expenses such as voicemail, satnding orders and functions, I can only conclude that the vast majority of IBOs on the system have to be losing money. The longer you stay in the system, the more you lose. Furthermore, I believe there are more people winning the powerball lottery in the US than the number of new WWDB diamonds emerging in the US in the last dozen years ago or so.
Imagine if you had questions and simply asked the person? Hello? Mr. Al Capone, I heard you were a gangster in charge of organized crime. But I thought it would only be fair if I got the answer directly from you. What's that? You're not a gangster and you go to church? Okay, I see. Well that clears that up. Mr. Capone is not a gangster, I confirmed that by asking him. Do you see the ridiculous justification of just asking the person in question? Isn't a better way to ask a neutral thrid party?
Many IBOs will also suggest that you check the better business bureau. Well, Amway has a good mark from the better business bureau. But Amway isn't selling you voicemail and other support materials right? That would be WWDB or some other motivational group, or a particular double or triple diamond, whose business may not have been registered or known to the better business bureau.
I believe IBOs, information seekers, and prospects can find a ton of information on the internet using google. Upline leaders disourage this because too much frank and disparaging information exists about the Amway opportunity. But much of that information is real life true experiences. I was an up and coming "mover and shaker" in WWDB. This blog relects much of my real experiences and the realizations I came to after having left Amway and WWDB. Sadly, my experience was not a good one, but more and more I see evidence that what I was taught a dozen years ago is still taught today, and by some of the same leaders. I hope my experience can help others.
"Here is a tip when doing research, if you have a question about a company why not give the actual company a call? Wow what a concept."
While on the surface, that me seem logical. If you have a question about how a company works, that might make perfect sense. But the Amway opportunity, along with the attached motivational tools companies, make that a touchy situation. What are you supposed to do? Call WWDB and ask if they are a good company? Call WWDB and ask if they scam downline? What if you call and ask WWDB if most IBOs on their system make money or lose money? If you look at the average income of the majority of IBOs amd factor in expenses such as voicemail, satnding orders and functions, I can only conclude that the vast majority of IBOs on the system have to be losing money. The longer you stay in the system, the more you lose. Furthermore, I believe there are more people winning the powerball lottery in the US than the number of new WWDB diamonds emerging in the US in the last dozen years ago or so.
Imagine if you had questions and simply asked the person? Hello? Mr. Al Capone, I heard you were a gangster in charge of organized crime. But I thought it would only be fair if I got the answer directly from you. What's that? You're not a gangster and you go to church? Okay, I see. Well that clears that up. Mr. Capone is not a gangster, I confirmed that by asking him. Do you see the ridiculous justification of just asking the person in question? Isn't a better way to ask a neutral thrid party?
Many IBOs will also suggest that you check the better business bureau. Well, Amway has a good mark from the better business bureau. But Amway isn't selling you voicemail and other support materials right? That would be WWDB or some other motivational group, or a particular double or triple diamond, whose business may not have been registered or known to the better business bureau.
I believe IBOs, information seekers, and prospects can find a ton of information on the internet using google. Upline leaders disourage this because too much frank and disparaging information exists about the Amway opportunity. But much of that information is real life true experiences. I was an up and coming "mover and shaker" in WWDB. This blog relects much of my real experiences and the realizations I came to after having left Amway and WWDB. Sadly, my experience was not a good one, but more and more I see evidence that what I was taught a dozen years ago is still taught today, and by some of the same leaders. I hope my experience can help others.
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