One of the ways that upline diamonds would put down jobs was to toss in the phrase that a job was simply trading hours for dollars. As if it were demeaning to have a job where you got paid for your time. I believe it's all relative. Being that many IBos are young and maybe working in more entry level types of jobs, then yeah, your hours wage might not be that great. If you earn say $10 an hour, then you might be struggling financially and it may take time before your skills and knowledge increase to a point where your experience is worth more money. What if you had a job paying $1000 an hour and earned $160,000 a month? Is that a lousy deal trading hours for dollars? I think not!
Conversely, having a business can be good or bad also. If you have an Amway business earnning less than $100 a month and you spend $200 on functions, standing orders and other training and motivational materials, then you are losing money. You would be better off working for free. That is still a better alternative than working a business where you are losing money. I think most people agree that a platinum group typically has a 100 or more IBOs. Thus a platinum is in the top 1% of all IBOs. I have heard that the platinum level is where you start to break even or make a little profit, depending on your level of tool consumption. If platinums are barely making a profit, then the other 99+% of IBOs are likely losing money. How much is that worth per hour?
I think uplines cleverly trick IBOs into thinking that a job is bad. Trading hours for dollars, afterall, sounds like some kind of indentured servant of sorts. But in the ned, what matters is your bottom line. If you are an IBO with little or no downline, and/or not much in terms of sales to non IBOs/customers, then you are losing money each and every month if you are attending functions and buying standing orders. Your 10-12 hours a week of Amway work is costing you money! But if you spend 10-12 hours a week, even at minimum wage, then you might be making about 300 to 350 a month groww income. After taxes, you make about 250 to 300. At least trading hours for dollars gets you a guaranteed net gain at the end of the month.
Uplines trick you into a "business mentality" where you think that working for a net loss is just a part of business. IBOs should realize that a business promoted as low risk and no overhead should be one where you can profir right away. Instead, IBos are taught to delay gratification, or to reinvest any profit back into their business in the form of tools and functions, which results in a net loss. If that's the case I would choose trading hours for dollars.
Remember, trading hours for dollars is not a bad deal if you are making enough dollars per hour. And even those who make less, are better off that those who "run a business" but end up with a net loss. It's all relative and hopefully, this message will help new or prospective IBOs who are being enticed to join the Amway business opportunity. Good luck to those with jobs and those with businesses. You can be successful either way. Remember that!
Friday, July 29, 2011
Thursday, July 28, 2011
Drag Racing And Amway - Fun, Not Profit
Good blog post by Peter J. Reilly
http://blogs.forbes.com/peterjreilly/2011/07/26/drag-racing-and-amway-fun-not-profit/
Somebody Somewhere Has To Be Buying Some Soap
There was also an Amway case. Amway is a major corporation that sells a variety of household products. Originally it was mainly soap. Their story is that their stuff is more expensive, but since it is more concentrated you don’t have to use as much of it. What they are better known for is their “multi-level” marketing system. If an Amway distributor invites you to a party to discuss something, he will not try to sell you soap. He will want to recruit you as a distributor. He will focus not so much on you selling the soap (I’m using the term as a shorthand for the broad range of Amway household products). He will focus on the opportunity you have to recruit other people who will become your “downline”. At one step removed, they are also part of his downline. In Amway terms, you are an “Independent Business Owner”. Somewhere in the chain above you (“upline”) there will be someone who has achieved Diamond status, which is your ultimate goal. Then you can just sit back and see how the money rolls in.
My short mention of the Amway case was picked up by another blog. This revealed to me that there is actually a small section of the blogosphere dedicated to criticizing the Amway system. My favorite is Married to An Ambot by a lady who is telling her story of what it is like to be married to an “Amway cult follower”. I was inspired to do a comprehensive study of how Amway IBO’s have fared in “hobby loss” cases. I found 23 cases going back as far as 1986 (There were some appeals, but I only counted the original case). It’s not an enormous number but it is enough for a Tax Court judge to have observed:
The Amway distributorship system is well known to respondent (i.e. IRS)and this Court
A brief summary of what the critics have to say about Amway is that very few people make money at it. Those that do may well exagerate their earnings to impress and motivate their “downline”. The relationship between the upline and downline has elements of cult like behavior. Most of the “soap” is bought by the IBO’s themselves. Those in the upline who are making a lot of money are making most of it from selling “tools” (motivational tapes and the like) to the downline. I don’t know whether this is all true or not, but the Amway hobby loss cases tend to support it. They almost all lost. Probably the most pervasive theme was that the IBO’s never seemed to try to control expenses and that they only sought advice from their upline, who were of course not going to give disinterested advice. I was able to draw a pretty clear lesson from the material.
If you would like to start a small home business so that you can deduct a lot of money that you would spend anyway, don’t do it. I didn’t need to study the cases to tell you that, of course. The study of the cases tells me that if you are going to not follow that good advice and are going to start a business so you can deduct a lot of personal expenses, the last thing you want to pick is becoming an Amway IBO.
Conclusion
The most ironic thing to me about hobby loss cases is that the Tax Court ends up sounding like a good managing partner bringing some business discipline into a public accounting firm. Most of us like the work and like our clients and staff and need somebody to remind us to keep money coming in the door.
Just for reference here are the factors:
(1) The manner in which the taxpayer carries on the activity;
(2) the expertise of the taxpayer in carrying on the activity;
(3) the time and effort expended by the taxpayer in carrying on the activity;
(4) the expectation that assets used in the activity may appreciate in value;
(5) the success of the taxpayer in carrying on other similar or dissimilar activities;
(6) the taxpayer’s history of income or loss with respect to the activity;
(7) the amount of occasional profits, if any, which are earned by the taxpayer;
(8) the financial status of the taxpayer;
(9) elements of personal pleasure or recreation.
http://blogs.forbes.com/peterjreilly/2011/07/26/drag-racing-and-amway-fun-not-profit/
Somebody Somewhere Has To Be Buying Some Soap
There was also an Amway case. Amway is a major corporation that sells a variety of household products. Originally it was mainly soap. Their story is that their stuff is more expensive, but since it is more concentrated you don’t have to use as much of it. What they are better known for is their “multi-level” marketing system. If an Amway distributor invites you to a party to discuss something, he will not try to sell you soap. He will want to recruit you as a distributor. He will focus not so much on you selling the soap (I’m using the term as a shorthand for the broad range of Amway household products). He will focus on the opportunity you have to recruit other people who will become your “downline”. At one step removed, they are also part of his downline. In Amway terms, you are an “Independent Business Owner”. Somewhere in the chain above you (“upline”) there will be someone who has achieved Diamond status, which is your ultimate goal. Then you can just sit back and see how the money rolls in.
My short mention of the Amway case was picked up by another blog. This revealed to me that there is actually a small section of the blogosphere dedicated to criticizing the Amway system. My favorite is Married to An Ambot by a lady who is telling her story of what it is like to be married to an “Amway cult follower”. I was inspired to do a comprehensive study of how Amway IBO’s have fared in “hobby loss” cases. I found 23 cases going back as far as 1986 (There were some appeals, but I only counted the original case). It’s not an enormous number but it is enough for a Tax Court judge to have observed:
The Amway distributorship system is well known to respondent (i.e. IRS)and this Court
A brief summary of what the critics have to say about Amway is that very few people make money at it. Those that do may well exagerate their earnings to impress and motivate their “downline”. The relationship between the upline and downline has elements of cult like behavior. Most of the “soap” is bought by the IBO’s themselves. Those in the upline who are making a lot of money are making most of it from selling “tools” (motivational tapes and the like) to the downline. I don’t know whether this is all true or not, but the Amway hobby loss cases tend to support it. They almost all lost. Probably the most pervasive theme was that the IBO’s never seemed to try to control expenses and that they only sought advice from their upline, who were of course not going to give disinterested advice. I was able to draw a pretty clear lesson from the material.
If you would like to start a small home business so that you can deduct a lot of money that you would spend anyway, don’t do it. I didn’t need to study the cases to tell you that, of course. The study of the cases tells me that if you are going to not follow that good advice and are going to start a business so you can deduct a lot of personal expenses, the last thing you want to pick is becoming an Amway IBO.
Conclusion
The most ironic thing to me about hobby loss cases is that the Tax Court ends up sounding like a good managing partner bringing some business discipline into a public accounting firm. Most of us like the work and like our clients and staff and need somebody to remind us to keep money coming in the door.
Just for reference here are the factors:
(1) The manner in which the taxpayer carries on the activity;
(2) the expertise of the taxpayer in carrying on the activity;
(3) the time and effort expended by the taxpayer in carrying on the activity;
(4) the expectation that assets used in the activity may appreciate in value;
(5) the success of the taxpayer in carrying on other similar or dissimilar activities;
(6) the taxpayer’s history of income or loss with respect to the activity;
(7) the amount of occasional profits, if any, which are earned by the taxpayer;
(8) the financial status of the taxpayer;
(9) elements of personal pleasure or recreation.
Wednesday, July 27, 2011
The "Good" Amway?
I've been recently engaged on another forum discussing the merits (or lack of) of the Amway business. Of course that discussion draws IBOFB to the forum like flies on a frsh pile. So as I see it, IBOFB thinks that downline abuse and the tools scam is a tiny problem and the most of Amway is actually a uptopia where IBOs prosper and upline actually live in wealth and only work because they love their downlines. It makes me think IBOFB aka Icerat aka Insider is completely deluded or is completely jaded in favor of Amway.
There are many tool companies that provide tools for Amway IBOs. They are independent of Amway and they are all (as far as I know) for profit companies that sell cds, seminars and other materials that are allegedly designed to help IBOs succeed in Amway. Because upline leaders have a lot of influence, most of these same leaders use that influence to encourage (coerce?) their faithful downline to purchase tools. It is easy to discern and there is documentation that some of these same leaders make most of their income from the sale of tools rather than from Amway. It's a bait and switch scam in my opinion. Show off a jet set lifestyle. Tell the audience that it's all available by working the Amway business, and then sell them foolproof tools that will help them accomplish this. Whether the tools work or not (there is no unbiased evidence that tools work), the uplines are laughing all the way to the bank as they drive their fancy cars.
While there may be pockets of groups where some leaders are more ethical, it's pretty evident that these are very very rare and that most uplines teach the same things. Dedication to the Amway products and dedication to the system. Both of these practices are beneficial to uplines who profit from tools, but usually becomes the reason why business building IBOs end up with a net loss. Sometimes an IBO become uber dedicated to upline and the tools and these IBOs often suffer massive losses, sometimes in tens of thousands of dollars. And their fault was selling out and doing exactly what was advised by their upline. IBOFB aka Icerat believes that the majority of Amway is the good Amway, where everyone makes money and is content. Sadly, that "good" Amway, doesn't appear to exist.
Does anyone know of this "good" Amway? Where is there a faction of IBOs who all profit? Is there a group where uplines don't promote and profit from tools? Is there a group where people don't quit and if they do, continue to buy Amway products consistently? Are we chasing the end of a rainbow here?
There are many tool companies that provide tools for Amway IBOs. They are independent of Amway and they are all (as far as I know) for profit companies that sell cds, seminars and other materials that are allegedly designed to help IBOs succeed in Amway. Because upline leaders have a lot of influence, most of these same leaders use that influence to encourage (coerce?) their faithful downline to purchase tools. It is easy to discern and there is documentation that some of these same leaders make most of their income from the sale of tools rather than from Amway. It's a bait and switch scam in my opinion. Show off a jet set lifestyle. Tell the audience that it's all available by working the Amway business, and then sell them foolproof tools that will help them accomplish this. Whether the tools work or not (there is no unbiased evidence that tools work), the uplines are laughing all the way to the bank as they drive their fancy cars.
While there may be pockets of groups where some leaders are more ethical, it's pretty evident that these are very very rare and that most uplines teach the same things. Dedication to the Amway products and dedication to the system. Both of these practices are beneficial to uplines who profit from tools, but usually becomes the reason why business building IBOs end up with a net loss. Sometimes an IBO become uber dedicated to upline and the tools and these IBOs often suffer massive losses, sometimes in tens of thousands of dollars. And their fault was selling out and doing exactly what was advised by their upline. IBOFB aka Icerat believes that the majority of Amway is the good Amway, where everyone makes money and is content. Sadly, that "good" Amway, doesn't appear to exist.
Does anyone know of this "good" Amway? Where is there a faction of IBOs who all profit? Is there a group where uplines don't promote and profit from tools? Is there a group where people don't quit and if they do, continue to buy Amway products consistently? Are we chasing the end of a rainbow here?
Monday, July 25, 2011
An Observation About Amway?
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=192279&page=8
It's refreshing to see so many good people on this forum telling the truth about Amway. It looks like the pro-Amway shills here and on other sites are becoming increasingly outnumbered and desperate. I've read through this entire thread and think it is hilarious how many times the shill has to move the goal-posts or play word games to make Amway look like an amazing business opportunity.
I was originally introduced to Amway many years ago in my late teens by an uncle of mine. I attended a few of their seminars, and was impressed at first. But the whole thing started to seem ridiculous and unrealistic and so I didn't get involved any further. Also, I'm not that materialistic, so Amway's message doesn't appeal to me. I wish my uncle had been more skeptical.
My uncle was very devoted to Amway for a few years. He bought all their products(especially the tapes and books), tried to get others to buy them, and also tried to recruit all his family and friends into his new religion. He eventually lost money and friends and alienated himself from much of his family.
Already heavily in debt, he eventually fell for another, even bigger get-rich-quick scam shortly after quitting Amway(to Amway's credit, they don't threaten to kill anyone for leaving Amway). This one robbed him of his entire life savings. The scammers got away with it because they knew how to play him right(he met one of them through Amway). His wife divorced him soon after.
As if this wasn't enough, after making a modest financial recovery with his business over the course of several years, he loses it all to yet another scam. He had to borrow heavily from the few friends he had left since no bank would ever give him a loan, and almost no one in the family has anything to do with him anymore. I haven't seen him for 15 years.
One thing I wonder about my uncle is if all those seminars and inspirational tapes and books softened him up to fall for all those other scams he fell for after quitting Amway(he didn't have a reputation for being gullible before joining Amway, though he was never that bright to begin with). If I remember correctly, he tended to blame himself for failing at Amway, and may have never understood that it was a big scam or at least not a good business opportunity.
I still remember those crazy seminars and how they told everyone that joining the Amway cult will likely lead to yachts, exotic vacations surrounded by hot bikini babes, and shiny expensive cars, among other symbols of wealth. Everyone is told at the seminars and in the "tools" that they have all this unfulfilled potential, but to realize this potential we must avoid those small-minded "dream killers"(skeptical family members and friends).
The story about my stupid uncle is true. There are many other people out there just like him who have fallen for Amway and others MLMs. The few people I've met who claimed they were very successful at Amway usually seemed sleazy or I would find out years later they were up to their eyeballs in debt.
The person who said before that the people who regularly attend these seminars are mostly fools and misfits was spot on.
It's refreshing to see so many good people on this forum telling the truth about Amway. It looks like the pro-Amway shills here and on other sites are becoming increasingly outnumbered and desperate. I've read through this entire thread and think it is hilarious how many times the shill has to move the goal-posts or play word games to make Amway look like an amazing business opportunity.
I was originally introduced to Amway many years ago in my late teens by an uncle of mine. I attended a few of their seminars, and was impressed at first. But the whole thing started to seem ridiculous and unrealistic and so I didn't get involved any further. Also, I'm not that materialistic, so Amway's message doesn't appeal to me. I wish my uncle had been more skeptical.
My uncle was very devoted to Amway for a few years. He bought all their products(especially the tapes and books), tried to get others to buy them, and also tried to recruit all his family and friends into his new religion. He eventually lost money and friends and alienated himself from much of his family.
Already heavily in debt, he eventually fell for another, even bigger get-rich-quick scam shortly after quitting Amway(to Amway's credit, they don't threaten to kill anyone for leaving Amway). This one robbed him of his entire life savings. The scammers got away with it because they knew how to play him right(he met one of them through Amway). His wife divorced him soon after.
As if this wasn't enough, after making a modest financial recovery with his business over the course of several years, he loses it all to yet another scam. He had to borrow heavily from the few friends he had left since no bank would ever give him a loan, and almost no one in the family has anything to do with him anymore. I haven't seen him for 15 years.
One thing I wonder about my uncle is if all those seminars and inspirational tapes and books softened him up to fall for all those other scams he fell for after quitting Amway(he didn't have a reputation for being gullible before joining Amway, though he was never that bright to begin with). If I remember correctly, he tended to blame himself for failing at Amway, and may have never understood that it was a big scam or at least not a good business opportunity.
I still remember those crazy seminars and how they told everyone that joining the Amway cult will likely lead to yachts, exotic vacations surrounded by hot bikini babes, and shiny expensive cars, among other symbols of wealth. Everyone is told at the seminars and in the "tools" that they have all this unfulfilled potential, but to realize this potential we must avoid those small-minded "dream killers"(skeptical family members and friends).
The story about my stupid uncle is true. There are many other people out there just like him who have fallen for Amway and others MLMs. The few people I've met who claimed they were very successful at Amway usually seemed sleazy or I would find out years later they were up to their eyeballs in debt.
The person who said before that the people who regularly attend these seminars are mostly fools and misfits was spot on.
Saturday, July 23, 2011
Signs That You Are Becoming An "Ambot"
Sometimes it happens to the nicest of people and it oftens happens slowly and subtly. These are the signs that you are becoming indocrinated and you are likely annoying your loved ones at this point. I hope this helps:
*You're driven to recruit everyone you know. You may even resort to deception or outright lies to get people to meetings. Before you know it, your family and friends avoid you like the plague.
*You're encouraged to develop an unreasonable, irrational zeal for the products. Even so far as to justify the quality of toilet paper or to call the products prestigious. You may even argue the quality of energy drinks or about phytonutrients, something you may not even know about.
*A whole bunch of demands, promises, subtle threats of failure if you don't try hard enough are made in the promotional material and motivational seminars. i.e. If you quit, you are a loser destined to die broke and unhappy.
*Because the system is touted as the way you're going to make yourself fantastically rich, you're under pressure to drop any conflicting or competing interests such as your bowling league or golf club. Nothing else in life has importance except for the quest of financial freedom. All activities in your life must enhance your Amway business and have an affect on your financial future.
*Your upline soon becomes your most trusted friend. Your thoughts and feelings are shaped in part by the cds, meetings and functions.
Do you recognize these behaviors? Hopefully you aren't displaying these behaviors.
*You're driven to recruit everyone you know. You may even resort to deception or outright lies to get people to meetings. Before you know it, your family and friends avoid you like the plague.
*You're encouraged to develop an unreasonable, irrational zeal for the products. Even so far as to justify the quality of toilet paper or to call the products prestigious. You may even argue the quality of energy drinks or about phytonutrients, something you may not even know about.
*A whole bunch of demands, promises, subtle threats of failure if you don't try hard enough are made in the promotional material and motivational seminars. i.e. If you quit, you are a loser destined to die broke and unhappy.
*Because the system is touted as the way you're going to make yourself fantastically rich, you're under pressure to drop any conflicting or competing interests such as your bowling league or golf club. Nothing else in life has importance except for the quest of financial freedom. All activities in your life must enhance your Amway business and have an affect on your financial future.
*Your upline soon becomes your most trusted friend. Your thoughts and feelings are shaped in part by the cds, meetings and functions.
Do you recognize these behaviors? Hopefully you aren't displaying these behaviors.
Analysis Of CORE?
Breakdown of CORE and why it doesn’t work. Here are the CORE steps. Some groups may have variations of CORE, but this is generally what many groups use:
1 - Show the Plan (10-15 per month)
2 - Retail the Products (10 customers @10 PV each)
3 – Tapes/cds
4 - Books
5- Functions (attend all)
6 - Accountability
7 - Counsel with Upline (Be teachable!)
8 - Buy 100% of your own products
9 – Communikate
Many upline will tell you that your success is nearly 100% guaranteed if you follow these steps for 2-5 years. Some Amway enthusiasts will tell you that 6 months of this activity will nearly assure you of a platinum level business. Certain steps are within the IBO’s control, such as reading every day and listening to cds, and attending functions. It is also easy enough to be accountable, counsel with upline, buy your own products, and use KATE (voicemail).
Here’s where an IBO’s efforts will break down. Showing the plan and retailing products. And remember, if you cannot do these steps then you are not considered “CORE” and your upline will likely tell you that it is your own fault and that you simply haven’t been CORE, therefore you did not achieve success. There is some truth in this but let me expose the system in a different angle.
Amway has a spotty reputation in the US. I don’t think anyone can dispute this fact. Therefore, for the vast majority of people, being able to show the plan 10-15 times per month is a nearly impossible task. If you are able to do this, you are a really good salesman or a good liar. In this scenario, the IBO is already successful, but not because of CORE, but simply because the IBO has the gift of being able to convince people into seeing the plan. But for many IBOs, they may contact hundreds of people and not be able to get anyone to see the plan. Even IBOs who follow upline advice on how to contact will probably not be able to show 10-15 plans per month. Thus this IBO, who is doing the work, will not be able to succeed. The system will blame the IBO, but the reality is that the IBO has too big of a disadvantage to overcome.
Secondly, with high prices (on average) and with a spotty reputation, most IBOs are unable to retail products. Amway itself has admitted that less than 4% of Amway products are sold to customers (non IBOs). Thus most IBOs are unable to sell products, therefore they are not CORE, therefore upline will blame the IBO for failure..
What if an IBO contacts 1000 people and cannot get 10 people to see the plan? Upline will claim that IBO is not CORE and therefore it is personal failure of the IBO. IMO, the only reason why upline can claim that CORE works is because in order to do the CORE steps consistently, you have to already be at a certain level of success. The vast majority of IBOs cannot and will never be able to reach that level.
That is the myth and the deception that many uplines will use to attract recruits. That each IBO can do the CORE steps. When only a fraction of 1% ever reach the level of platinum or higher, the numbers strongly support what is written here. Apologists are welcome to try and prove me wrong, but they can't.
1 - Show the Plan (10-15 per month)
2 - Retail the Products (10 customers @10 PV each)
3 – Tapes/cds
4 - Books
5- Functions (attend all)
6 - Accountability
7 - Counsel with Upline (Be teachable!)
8 - Buy 100% of your own products
9 – Communikate
Many upline will tell you that your success is nearly 100% guaranteed if you follow these steps for 2-5 years. Some Amway enthusiasts will tell you that 6 months of this activity will nearly assure you of a platinum level business. Certain steps are within the IBO’s control, such as reading every day and listening to cds, and attending functions. It is also easy enough to be accountable, counsel with upline, buy your own products, and use KATE (voicemail).
Here’s where an IBO’s efforts will break down. Showing the plan and retailing products. And remember, if you cannot do these steps then you are not considered “CORE” and your upline will likely tell you that it is your own fault and that you simply haven’t been CORE, therefore you did not achieve success. There is some truth in this but let me expose the system in a different angle.
Amway has a spotty reputation in the US. I don’t think anyone can dispute this fact. Therefore, for the vast majority of people, being able to show the plan 10-15 times per month is a nearly impossible task. If you are able to do this, you are a really good salesman or a good liar. In this scenario, the IBO is already successful, but not because of CORE, but simply because the IBO has the gift of being able to convince people into seeing the plan. But for many IBOs, they may contact hundreds of people and not be able to get anyone to see the plan. Even IBOs who follow upline advice on how to contact will probably not be able to show 10-15 plans per month. Thus this IBO, who is doing the work, will not be able to succeed. The system will blame the IBO, but the reality is that the IBO has too big of a disadvantage to overcome.
Secondly, with high prices (on average) and with a spotty reputation, most IBOs are unable to retail products. Amway itself has admitted that less than 4% of Amway products are sold to customers (non IBOs). Thus most IBOs are unable to sell products, therefore they are not CORE, therefore upline will blame the IBO for failure..
What if an IBO contacts 1000 people and cannot get 10 people to see the plan? Upline will claim that IBO is not CORE and therefore it is personal failure of the IBO. IMO, the only reason why upline can claim that CORE works is because in order to do the CORE steps consistently, you have to already be at a certain level of success. The vast majority of IBOs cannot and will never be able to reach that level.
That is the myth and the deception that many uplines will use to attract recruits. That each IBO can do the CORE steps. When only a fraction of 1% ever reach the level of platinum or higher, the numbers strongly support what is written here. Apologists are welcome to try and prove me wrong, but they can't.
Friday, July 22, 2011
Is Amway An IceBerg And Not A Pyramid?
I was in discussion on another forum and a comment was made about Amway being an iceberg, because you see the shiny clean ice on the top but you do not see the majority of the iceberg. Or in other words, the diamonds show you the fancy suits, jewelry, care, mansions, jets and what you don't see is the financial carnage that takes place in their downlines at times. My former upline would tell audiences that they could skip meals to buy more standing orders because you might hear the one thing that could make your business explode.
Sure, on standing orders, you won't hear too much of the unethical and "wrong" teaching, because some of this is monitored by Amway, but it's the night owls and smaller group meetings where the real teaching is disseminated. This is where you are told to practically sell your soul to achieve in Amway. This is where the teaching comes in where you should be purchasing excessive amounts of tools in order to succeed. This is where you are told to never miss a function unless it's for your own funeral. A newbie or casual observer won't see these things but if you ever commit to becoming a business builder, this is likely to become your world.
You don't see the backstage at functions and meetings. Former rubies and platinums have made commentary about the diamonds literall laughing about how gullible the downline are. You don't see the where the cash collected at the meetings and functions go. There had been some past comments about literally, suitcases of cash leaving the premises. If your upline has a mansion and a fleet of nice cars, it's likely that your tools money played a significant part in your diamond obtaining it.
It's a simple conclusion. The tools have a higher markup than Amway products and have fewer beneficiaries to split up the bonus. A $7.00 Amway product might cost $3.00 or so to make and the rest will be bonus money split up by the layers of IBOs. Whereas a $7.00 cd might take 50 cents to produce and only platinums and higher receive any compensation from this srouce of income. But rank and file IBOs rarely ever see a true and transparent picture of this business. It is shrouded in secrecy, just like the underside of an iceberg. I challenge IBOs to be real businessmen and women and ask upline the tough questions about where the money is made. Do not accpet rhetoric and anecdotal stories. In real business, schedule C business tax returns are the normal way for verification of business income. If you are going to "invest" your hard earned money into the system to the benfit of upline, you should demand this information.
Would any of you purchase a conventional business from someone without proof that it is profitable? Why would an Amway business be any different?
Sure, on standing orders, you won't hear too much of the unethical and "wrong" teaching, because some of this is monitored by Amway, but it's the night owls and smaller group meetings where the real teaching is disseminated. This is where you are told to practically sell your soul to achieve in Amway. This is where the teaching comes in where you should be purchasing excessive amounts of tools in order to succeed. This is where you are told to never miss a function unless it's for your own funeral. A newbie or casual observer won't see these things but if you ever commit to becoming a business builder, this is likely to become your world.
You don't see the backstage at functions and meetings. Former rubies and platinums have made commentary about the diamonds literall laughing about how gullible the downline are. You don't see the where the cash collected at the meetings and functions go. There had been some past comments about literally, suitcases of cash leaving the premises. If your upline has a mansion and a fleet of nice cars, it's likely that your tools money played a significant part in your diamond obtaining it.
It's a simple conclusion. The tools have a higher markup than Amway products and have fewer beneficiaries to split up the bonus. A $7.00 Amway product might cost $3.00 or so to make and the rest will be bonus money split up by the layers of IBOs. Whereas a $7.00 cd might take 50 cents to produce and only platinums and higher receive any compensation from this srouce of income. But rank and file IBOs rarely ever see a true and transparent picture of this business. It is shrouded in secrecy, just like the underside of an iceberg. I challenge IBOs to be real businessmen and women and ask upline the tough questions about where the money is made. Do not accpet rhetoric and anecdotal stories. In real business, schedule C business tax returns are the normal way for verification of business income. If you are going to "invest" your hard earned money into the system to the benfit of upline, you should demand this information.
Would any of you purchase a conventional business from someone without proof that it is profitable? Why would an Amway business be any different?
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