Joecool's 4000 PV Business?

Joecool wanted to give people a glimpse into what it was like in Amway at the 4000 PV level and what my experience was. Although Amway and WWDB defenders will claim this doesn't happen, or that it doesn't happen anymore, I have good reasons to believe that very little has changed in WWDB since I was an IBO. The only major difference was that we did (phone)call in and product pick up back then. Apparently, some WWDB leaders still talk about buying homes in cash and teaching the same old stuff.

How many hours per week did I work? I would say up to 30 hours a week was spent on business related issues. Granted, product pick up consumed an entire afternoon and evening, generally on Thursdays. I would have to call in my order to the platinum on Wednesday evening and then pick up the stuff on Thursday afternoon. Then I had to rush home and distribute the stuff to my downline. My upline platinum was not good at filling orders so it was a real pain. I'd say pick up and associated paperwork costed me maybe 8 hours a week. One good benefit today is that Amway issues the bonuses. In the old days, you as an upline had to do so. (This is an area where I agree that Amway made good progress) I did hear though, that WWDB may still have call in and pick up for standing orders and such. If this is true, then they undid the progress that Amway had made. Also, as a up and coming leader, my platinum expected me to absorb some of the cost of returned tools, such as absorbing losses if someone on standing order quit. (Brad Duncan cut a true north tape at the time that basically said IBOs absorb the cost of standing orders for downlines who quit. In other words, if your downline quit, you keep paying for their standing order subscription)

As a 4000 pin, I had to show the plan or attend plans for my frontline, if the platinum was showing the plan. I'd say 4 nights per week we showed the plan for a downline or a downline in depth. Of course after the plan, we might "hang out" with downline and have some night owl teaching. Some people call this association or whatever. Depending on the length of the drive, this might take 3-4 hours 4 nights per week. Sometimes it was shorter when you had no shows.

We counseled with downline and upline. I spent some individual time with my upline and also with downline who wanted one on one time to get ideas on how to improve their Amway business. We looked over their group parameters and of course, tools flow. There was a WWDB counseling sheet for this purpose. Looking back, I"m not sure what this really accomplished except for the big pins to know which leaders are selling the most tools.

Then we had open meetings and functions. One local function each month and generally one or two open meetings where a diamond or emerald would show the plan. Of course, my sponsor (platinum) did not feel right unless he augmented our function with his own night owl meetings. We also had three long distance functions on the mainland. These functions were (at the time) called Leadership, Family Reunion and Free Enterprise day. Being from Hawaii, these functions costed me, as a single, at least $1,000 or more for each trip because it was airfare during peak travel times, hotel, rental cars and the function ticket. I hate to think what couples paid.

Because of my status as up and coming leader, I had the privilege of attending special meetings where our diamond would teach or show house plans. I even had the honor or driving the diamond to a house plan. Damn, how can anyone live without such an honor?

For my troubles, I had a business at 4000 PV, with eagle parameters. I was considered a "mover and shaker". Lots of people knew me and my sponsor wanted so badly to break a downline platinum. He sat down with me one afternoon and told me I could really push to platinum and ruby easily if I would only ditch my girlfriend (fiancee' at the time). He told me that he would ditch his wife if the upline diamond told him to do so. He said a single (ruby or higher) could easily attract a lot of eligible women. It was after that meeting when I decided to quit.

I had reached 4000 PV. I was making very little or losing some money because of the tools and functions. I did not see prospects of making money even at platinum and now my upline wanted control of my life. I told my group the truth and all of them quit except 1 or 2 of them who were brainwashed enough to stay involved. That was my story and I have no regrets about my decision to quit. I truly hope this story helps a prospect or a current IBO.

Build Amway Right and Build It Once?

I believe that Amway IBOs have approximately a 50% attrition rate for the first year alone. If you look at a 5 year window, I believe the attrition rate is something like 95%. So what we're saying is that out of 100 IBOs, only 5 will be around in 5 years, or out of 1000 IBOs, 50 will remain after 5 years. This is extremely significant because if you are a business builder, you will need to replace half of your IBOs every single year. For this reason, I am very doubtful that there are IBOs who "built the business right and built it once", who no longer do Amway related work, but still collect significant residual income. I would guess that significant income could be defined as being enough to live a lifestyle in the top tax bracket (for the US) without having to report to a J-O-B.

Now I understand that some IBOs take it personally when I bring up subjects like this. It is because they have been deceived by some upline diamond or big pin who has sold them on a dream of financial prosperity for life if they will only work hard for 2-5 years. I once thought so too, but realized that there isn't a single diamond that I know of who built the business right and walked away to enjoy the beaches of the world while truckloads of money rolls in. Kinda makes you wonder why you see Crowns still working, and diamonds actually quitting or resigning. I have asked the question many times and it has never been answered. Can anyone name a few people who built their business right and built it once who is currently enjoying these lifelong residuals? Also, if that were a benefit, why doesn't Amway say so?

Instead, you have a constant and endless flow of motivation being sold to IBOs. This motivation comes in the form of cds, books, meetings, functions and other things like voicemail messages. It's sad that IBOs have to continue to pay through the nose for motivation and "teaching" about the Amway business when there are cheaper and more efficient means of communication. For example, why would you need an expensive voicemail when a facebook group account can disseminate messages to your group in seconds at no cost? It is because the uplines want to extract every possible sent from their downline. Because of the internet, I believe people are starting to figure things out and avoid the systems altogether. I hope Joecool's blog contributes to this.

All the motivation IBOs truly need is to see a net profit at the end of the month. If IBOs actually earned an extra $200 a month, or $50 a month, or $600 a month as advertised, there would be no need for motivational speeches. The IBOs would simply look at the growth in their finances and they would keep going. The poor retention rate is easy to explain. IBOs are losing money because of the system expenses and they lose their motivation to continue. If you are an IBO or a prospect, stop and think for a minute. If you are making an extra $200 a month with minimal effort, would you need functions and other materials to motivate you? Or would you have intrinsic motivation from the profit? All the motivation you will ever need is a net profit. Take that to the bank.

No Negative In Amway?

One of the silly things many Amway IBOs are taught is to avoid all negative. I believe this is taught today by uplines and it was certainly a point of emphasis even in my days as an IBO. The upline diamond would say that the world of full of negatives and that we as people take in too much of these negatives. Therefore, the IBOs were told to avoid television, newspapers and other forms of communication with the outside world. The group was also told to avoid people who speak negatively about Amway. For this reason, many people have considered Amway groups such as WWDB or N21 as cultish or cult-like. (information deprevation or information control).

I can agree that you surely don't want to only take in negatives as it can wear you down, but not seeing the news or reading about current events in the paper simply makes you apathetic and uninformed. For example, wouldn't you want and need to know if there was a storm heading your way? I live in Hawaii and we occasionally have hurricanes. Avoiding news could be very detrimental to your family and home. If you lived in the midwest of the US, wouldn't you want and need to know if a tornado was headed your way? Do you avoid the doctor because his assessment of your health might not be "positive"? For these reasons, I believe that many Amwayers walk around wearing a mask with a false smile, trying to overly positive. I recall IBOs saying they had a "warm" if they weren't feeling well (warm is the opposite of a "cold").

Another important thing that many IBOs cannot distinguish is the difference between negative and the truth. If your wife asks you if her new dress makes her look fat, the truth might be that the new dress indeed makes her appear fat. That answer may be uncomfortable for you to deliver, but the truth is the truth. The truth at times can be positive or negative but it is still the truth. The truth is that the vast majority of IBOs make nothing or lose money. There's no going around that fact.

Most IBOs earn less than $100 a month. That is the truth. Most IBOs lose money if they participate in functions and standing orders and such. That is the truth. Most IBOs will never even sponsor a downline. That is the truth. Most IBOs, filled with motivation and dreams, will never see those dreams fulfilled. That is the truth. Many upline diamonds, who advise IBOs to purchase tools and attend functions, and fill the IBO's heads full of dreams, make significant incomes from the sale of tools and functions. That is also the truth. In a 1 year timespan, approximately 50% of IBOs will quit. That is the truth.

Is it negative to tell the truth? Or can IBOs not handle the truth?

Believe In Amway?

I often hear stories and testimonies about how some people (usually newbies) have this incredible belief in Amway, their sponsors and their LOS, such as WWDB or Network 21. Being that many, possibly most IBOs are sponsored by a friend or family member, means that there is an inherent trust in the sponsor or upline. If that were not true, then we would likely see many more complaints about Amway and/or the uplines and lines of sponsorship.

But an important facet of being an IBO is to have a dream. Don't let "naysayers" steal your dream, is what many IBOs are told. But what is that dream? Is is a dream (a long term attainable goal) or a wish such as winning the powerball lottery? Many prospects and IBOs want to succeed. They are willing to work hard, and are very dedicated, I would say that these folks usually will end up failing, not for lack of effort, but for a flawed MLM/Amway system that cannot possibly reward more than a few. The famed 6-4-2, 6-4-3 or some other variation of the plan will illustrate that only 1 in 100 or so can be "platinum". And that's with nobody quitting. Factor in attrition and "do nothings" and it might be 1 in 200 who can reach platinum. Even if the whole world signed up for Amway, that fact doesn't change.

Do you really believe in Amway and your line of sponsorship such as WWDB or Network 21? If you truly believe in Amway and your mentors, I challenge you to do one of these things. If you can't or won't, then I question your level of commitment. I question your belief. I'm not here to steal your dream. I am just challenging you.

Take your 6-4-2 or 9-4-2 or 6-4-3 plan to a loan officer at a bank and show them the plan. (Hey, it will help you be CORE) Ask the loan officer for their opinion of the plan and see if you can get a business loan based on the Amway plan. If not that, try seeking the advice of a real millionaire (Someone who has a net worth of a million bucks) and see if they think the 6-4-2 or other Amway (version) plans can work and whether they think Amway is a good idea. Heck, try asking your church Pastor. My church Pastor said Amway had too many false hopes and promises to be considered a viable business option.

How strong is your belief in Amway? Strong enough to take my challenge? Or will you ignore this and go on fooling yourself?

Quitting Is Winning In Amway?

I often see commentary about people quitting Amway and Amway loyalists are quick to call them broke, losers, lazy, lacking guts. Ironically, these same lazy and loser types of people were "sharp" and motivated prospects before they signed up for the Amway opportunity. Someone recently left a comment on my blog about how AMOs should conduct exit interviews with departing IBOs to get to the root of the problems. I think these exit interviews would reveal that people are working hard and applying the AMo teaching, only to lose money,

Based on my years of blogging and Amway experiences, I can honestly say I believe that people quit Amway primarily for one reason. The money isn't there. Amway's own numbers show that the average IBO earns just over $200 a month and that is before taxes and expenses, and that number excludes inactive IBOs. Business building IBOs earn most of the bonuses, but business building IBOs generally have the most expenses, often participating in the system of standing orders, voicemail, books and functions.

When I was an IBO, I did as upline advised and I achieved a fairly significant level (4000 PV), but due to the expenses associated with tools and helping downline, I didn't earn net profit. This is confirmed by a study done by the Wisconsin attroney general who examined the tax returns of platinume and found that they averaged a net loss of about $1000 a year. While the study was a bit dated, I would suggest it is still very valid as platinums today, have more tools (business building materials) that they are expected to buy from upline. If I made nothing at 4000 PV, anyone with half a brain can conclude that IBOs below 4000 PV and fully participating on the system would end up with a net loss because their expenses would be similar to mine, but with less bonus money.

The bottom line is that people are very likely quitting because they aren't profitable. If people made a few hundred a month with 8-15 hours of work per week, they would continue to run their businesses. But those who work and make nothing or lose money have no reason or motivation to continue. Thus they simply make a wise business decision and quit. What seemed like a good idea during the presentation simply did not pan out when reality set in. It's also reasonable to conclude that the products are that great either because if they were, those who quit would become loyal customers, thus even if the sales force turned over, sales would consistently rise as former IBOs would become customers. It's apparent that most former IBOs do not become loyal Amway customers. In fact, for those who later discover they were lied to or deceived about the Amway opportunity, become critical of Amway instead.

Why do people quit Amway? I think the answer is crystal clear. The quitters are the winners!

Amway Testimony?

This comment was sent to me by a site visitor. He speaks of an Amway IBO's expenses and some of the trials his family member has gone through:

Hey Joe. Love the blog, read it every week. I have a family member in "the biz" and due to various reasons it frustrates me but i support this person no matter what decisions they choose to make. I have been to a few meetings, a few get togethers, and have been encouraged to join the "biz" and attend functions on several occasions. I have a decent job, I make decent money and I have no interest in selling crap to people in my spare time.

The products sold by the way are items that are purchased daily by consumers everywhere in the city at various storefronts. There is no shipment to wait for and whether its toothpaste or vitamins, there is a store for that. Honestly, how can you really compete?

Anyway, I could go on and on but I would like to share with you some things I have seen from these ibo weirdos that are expenses. So yeah, I went to a few meetings and wow, what a bunch of bs. They want you to buy cd's and books etc. from motivational speakers (yes I have listened to a few breifly) that basically make people feel bad about themselves and how they live (thats all i hear anyways)....and the ibo weirdos eat it up and actuall BUY it. The stuff isnt cheap either so if you had profit you are losing some there. These people drive to meetings every week, and pay an entrance fee so they can watch videos on how you can get rich, listen to motivational assholes (they actually take notes) and actually purchase new products so they can try them out for themselves.

All I see there is expenses....tally it up, entrance fee, gas money, babysitters, stationary items, books, cds, and hell even the clothing they show up in to project their image of success....its all an expense. I was invited to a couple of functions and on the cheap side, it would have cost anywhere from $300 to 500 just to get wherever it was and to get in the door....and for what? I was told to get the information I needed to succeed. Ha! What information? It's all just some rich (or rich acting) person flaunting the shiny new shit they supposedly have and telling you to your face more or less that you are a useless bag of shit unless you are like me. More expenses for nothing. Wow. Ibo weirdos also like to buy(through the biz none the less) fancy new electronics that will help them to make more money by working the internet angle. Ummm....BIG expense, how long till it pays for itself? I have gone to a few bbqs and get together type deals because I was invited (only cause they have to invite me due to family ties lol) and ill tell ya, not one home i have seen is that of someone successful. We are talking some low income housing my friend, and guess what you ALWAYS notice? Huge dry erase boards, filing cabinets, books and cds galore, projection monitors hooked up to computers ( with some amway logo as the screensaver), amway products displayed in every room, and yes even home phone "business" lines......ALL of them expenses.

Yet, in these homes sadly there is little else. I mean, damn you have to live a little. Your entire life can't become engulfed in this crap can it? These ibo weirdos hate me, that's for sure. I refuse to be a part of their "biz" and I have a large furnished home, several toys, vehicles, and cash in my pocket, and I do it all because I have a JOB, and you know what? There are no expenses and i do better than any of the members in their team! Oh yeah, does amway provide any dental, vision, or medical? EXPENSE! The biggest expense I see is the amount of time they lose with their families. Every spare moment is used on a phone call, on the internet, at a function, at a meeting, setting up to display items at different locations, throwing crappy house parties to get more suckers, etc. etc. Talk about freedom huh? So, I will continue to support my family member, as I am not her "owner" and want her do what she pleases and what makes her happy. But it works for me because each time I have to attend a crappy bbq (no more meetings though, we came to an agreement lol) or some get together functions, it is a great reality check for me. I always walk away knowing I am doing something right, that i truly am successful, my family members are all taken care of, and my expenses are 3/4 of a tank of gas a week. Hmmmm.....so what do you think joe? What ibo expenses have I missed?

Returning Amway Stuff?

When I was recruited into Amway, one of the catch phrases was that you are now a business owner. It sounds cool to be a business owner, but in reality, it appears that IBOs are simply salesmen for Amway who are afforded no guaranteed wage or any fringe benefits. In fact, many Amway salesmen do Amway a favor and go out recruiting other salesmen for Amway without any compensation. It makes sense though, because to attain levels of significance, you need to have downline. While it is possible (but nearly impossible) to reach platinum and even ruby without downline, any levels higher will require you to have downline.

So as an Amway salesman, you have no minimum sales requirement. That may seem like a good thing but many uplines will impose a defacto 100 PV requirement for "serious" IBOs. If you are planning to sponsor someone, your upline will likely tell you that your downline will duplicate your efforts, therefore the 100 PV "requirement". 100 PV will cost about $300. While it is possible to sell some products, it would seem that most IBOs simply buy their own goods and do not sell to non IBOs. It's puzzling to me that so many IBOs argue about Amway's superior quality of products, yet so few former IBOs continue to use Amway products at all once they are not IBOs and even those that do, would rarely ever attain 100 PV. So much for that argument.

What many IBOs do not realize is that their upline diamonds are also salesmen. In addition to moving Amway volume, they will be selling you voicemail, standing orders, premiere club, functions, book of the month. All of these materials brings in a higher profit margin than Amway products. Thus it would only make sense that your upline salesmen would want to sell tools more than Amway products because it has more profit. Where this gets shady is when your upline tells you that they have your best interest at heart or that you virtually cannot succeed without these tools. Imagine your reaction if a vacuum cleaner salesman told you that he has your best interest at heart and that you cannot possibly clean your home without his vacuum. In an odd way, that is exactly what is happening when you purchase tools from upline. What's even worse is that the tools rarely ever work out for the IBOs who buy them. What if you bought a vacuum that didn't work? You would return it for a refund. What if the salesman said you can't return it because you used it?

I find it odd that IBOs accept this BS from upline. That you can only return unused tools. You should be able to return a product because it didn't work! Did that standing order actually help you to sponsor new people? Did you sell more products because you attended a function? Whether a tool is used or unused should not matter. You should be able to get a full refund if the tools didn't work. If not, IBOs who cannot return tools should complain to Amway and the better business bureau, and file formal complaints. Many IBOs simply quit and walk away, giving the tool sellers a break. If the tools don't work, you should return them on that basis and demand a refund. I challenge IBOs and former IBOs to do this.