Likelihood Of Success?

 Many people consider the platinum level in Amway as a significant achievement in Amway. While it may be nice to achieve that level and gain recognition from the Amway corporation, I will point out that there was a study done in Wisconsin where the attorney general analyzed and found that platinums on average, lost money. The study is somewhat dated, but I will also point out that today, there are MORE expenses associated with running an Amway business than before. (Voicemail, books, functions, standing orders, shipping). I would guess that it's possible that platinums lose more today than when the Wisconsin study was done.

A typical platinum group often has 100 ore more downline IBOs. Thus, a logical conclusion is that less than 1% of IBOs can reach that level. It is also, apparently rare to maintain that level. My former upline diamond had 7 frontline platinums in his heyday. Actually, 6 of them were ruby level. None of them hold the platinum level today. So you have a less than 1% chance of reaching platinum and then you are unlikely to be able to maintain that level.

What serious prospective business owner would even consider opening a business where you have such a tiny chance of success? Even those who achieve platinum are likely to lose that level. If platinums cannot maintain their level, then it's easy to see why there are former diamonds as well. It seems that people are willing to take a chance on an Amway business because the startup cost is low. But what is the point of doing all of that when the chance of making money is negligible?

To compound the problem, many IBOs spend a lot of time and money building an Amway business that is unlikely to give them any return on their investment. I'd guess that the average serious IBO would spend $250 a month of more on tools. That money invested over a number of years in mutual funds would give you a much better chance of achieving some dreams. Even putting the money in the bank would make you better off than the vast majority of IBOs. A serious business owner would want to know their realistic chance of making money. For some strange reason, prospects and IBOs seem to ignore this reality.

It is because uplines are in the business of selling tools and distributorships. They are not truly interested in your long term sustainable success. If you don't believe me, try to stop purchasing standing orders and function tickets and see how much longer you are edified and given help from upline. Seriously, would a real business owner be interested in a less than 1% chance of success?

Freedom?

Financial Freedom! That was one of the major battle cries when I was recruited for the Amway business. You gain control of time and money by creating residual or passive income. That is true financial freedom. You wake up at noon, no job, and just do whatever you please, whenever you please. I remember the speaker saying that broke/unemployed people also had freedom, but it was different because they were broke and could not afford to go golfing or do other activities that required money on a regular basis. 

I am assuming that this is still the case for many IBOs. Of course, upline leaders may toss in a disclaimer that you don't get rich quick as an IBO, but the pitch apparently still contains the financial freedom and residual income theme, based on my experiences with IBOs. IBOs still think they will be rich. Also, 2-5 years sounds like "get rich quick" to me. 

But hey, financial freedom would be a great thing, don't get me wrong. Who wouldn't want to be 35 years old with enough cash to never have to work again? I mean I could spend some time imagining how fun that would be. It would also be fun to imagine what you would do with all the cash if you hit the powerball lottery as well. But for the starry eyed IBOs, I simply have a few questions for you to ponder. A few realistic questions that you should be asking yourself. The answers to these questions will tell you a lot. 

1. Who in your group or upline truly has achieved financial freedom? Have you seen their financials or simply a display of wealth such as mansions and fancy cars? Mansions and fancy cars could just be a massive pile of debt. Not too long ago, there apparently were diamonds who had their homes foreclosed, and a triple diamond who was in bankruptcy proceedings. Find out if anyone in your group/upline has actually achieved the success that they are using to recruit you. Also, if they are financially free, why do they work at function after function? Traveling and speaking might not be a traditional job, but it is still work, nonetheless. 

2. Even if you find someone who is retired and golfing everyday because of Amway residual income, ask yourself what the likelihood is that you will be able to achieve the same results. If diamonds are still working, what chance do you have of success if you are new or experienced in Amway, and have few or no downline. More than likely, your chance of winning the lottery will be greater than your chance of achieving a significant residual income from your Amway business. Also, I don't know of any Amway retirees who built their business once and walked away with any significant residual income from Amway. Do you?

A Letter To Amway?

 This is an open letter basically explaining Joecool's position and why in my opinion, criticism of Amway doesn't stop. (Reprinted, but still applicable today)

Dear Amway,

Why does criticism of Amway continue Ad Nauseum? Because you have not taken any apparent visible action(s) against higher level IBOs who make their living by ripping off unsuspecting prospects and faithful downline by feeding them lines about how easy it is to build an Amway business and how they can ditch their jobs and live on easy street. I saw it and there are countless testimonies and experiences posted on the internet.  Residual income, passive income or whatever it's called, continues to be a theme that get repeated by IBOs, in particular, newbies.

When I was an IBO in WWDB, we were fed outright lies by upline. Nobody made any money from tools being the biggest. Downline were taught how long they could string out their mortgages or electric bills so they can attend functions and buy more tools. Yes, IBOs have culpability as well, but the culture of these groups is one of trust and loyalty to the diamonds. Amway's owner, Mr. DeVos acknowledged this in his 1983 speech "directly speaking". But despite the speech, no apparent visible action was taken, thus the status quo continued. Even the accreditation system which seemed nice on the surface appears to be a farce. I believe that possibly millions of people over the years have been adversely affected financially because of some of these Amway IBO leaders.

Many of the same leaders who lied to benefit themselves are still at it. A fellow blogger named "Rocket" at one time, reported a possible violation where crown ambassador and IBOAI member, Brad Duncan is caught on tape claiming that IBOs can make "hundreds of thousands of dollars" a month in Amway. The apparent response was to make non sensical remarks and then eventually no response when pressed for one. I also reported a WWDB IBO who was making disparaging and false statements about some competitor's products while making misleading positive statements about Amway products. Your response was no response, and my comment wasn't even published on your "Amway Answers" blog. Ironically, one of the topics on that blog was about how Amway doesn't turn a blind eye to problems. Yeah, you can say it but your actions show something else.

Maybe someone can explain why actions in other countries indicate that the folks who sell Amway tools are scammers. For some reason, the regulatory agencies in the US have not taken notice of the tools business. The Dateline segment in 2004 exposed the tools and systems. It became a big debate on the internet with critics and proponents. While Amway can claim innocence because the unethical actions were taken by IBOs, or "independent" business owners, I still believe that Amway has a responsibility to reign is some of the sales force that represents them.

Food for thought: Joe Paterno was an assistant and head coach, an icon at Penn State University for more than 60 years. He was fired some time ago because he had knowledge of child abuse occurring at the program under his watch. While he was not personally guilty of this, and did many good things for Penn State and the community, still his inactions may have caused harm to befall innocent children. Ultimately, he had the ability and power to stop the wrongdoing but did not. It is a sad ending for a man who many consider a legend. I wish his family well.

Amway can reign in the tool abuse and take control of some of the bad leaders, but apparently has not and will not. The fight goes on......

No Responsibility?

 One of the disturbing things I have noticed about Amway IBOs and IBO leaders is how they will tell downline to trust them. To trust them as they have already blazed a trail. No need to re-invent the wheel. Just ride the coattails of your upline to success. The system is proven. Many IBOs take this to heart and put forth tremendous effort. Then when they ultimately fail, upline will shun them and tell them that the failure is their own. That they are personally responsible for failure.  In other words, upline suddenly has no responsibility for the downline failure despite the fact that the faithful downline may have done everything they were told to do.

Now I am not talking about IBOs who sign up and do nothing, or never place an order. I do believe that the fact that many IBOs sign up and do nothing brings concerns about how these IBOs were recruited, but I do not recall ever seeing an IBO do nothing and then complain that Amway was a scam or anything like that.  But there are plenty of IBOs, myself included, that put forth a lot of dedication and effort into building an Anway business.

I have found, however, that many people who are critical of Amway and the systems, put forth much effort, did everything they were told, and did not find the success that upline promoted, or in some cases, guaranteed. My former sponsor was still active, last I heard and has been in Amway for over 25+ years. I do not believe he has ever gone beyond platinum, and I know that he was never a Q12 platinum. Some Amway apologists might see being a platinum as a bonus, but when you are hard core sold out to the systems, platinums can still carry massive losses, although I have heard that platinum is a break even or make a small profit level in the Amway business. Factor in that time spent by husband and wife and these folks are losing money, breaking even or making a fraction of minimum wage. Is this the dream that will allow you to buy mansions with a cash payment? 

What is also disturbing is how people will tout the system as responsible for any success but hide the vast majority that the system doesn't help. Sure, some will succeed in Amway, but for every success, there are hundreds if not thousands who fail. And if you consider diamond as the benchmark of success, the failures could be in the millions. As I said, some succeed, but very very few in relation to the number who try. Going diamond is probably less common in the US than winning the lottery. 

Succeed and the systems and upline will quickly take credit for the success.  But fail or quit and it is your own responsibility. Are these the kinds of leaders or mentors you want advice from?   It's like playing a game of heads I win and tails you lose.  Sadly, many IBOs don't see this BS until they are in quite deep and then the sunken cost fallacy sets in, making it hard to quit sometimes.  Good luck to anyone who reads this and decides to try anyway.

Selling Amway Products?

 There's been much debate recently over the issue of IBOs selling products. Now of course in the IBO world, there are going to be some IBOs who are exceptional at selling products and possibly in foreign countries where Amway has not spoiled their reputation as it apparently has in North America, it might be possible to sell some products. But the experience of a typical IBO probably cannot be one where products flow to customers regularly. Now I do not wish to debate the merits of whether or not downline are considered customers as that is an endless and pointless debate because the bottom line would be that uplines are making their income on the backs of their downline, thus confirming the appearance of a product pyramid. Aside from downline, it would appear that the remaining customers are mostly sympathetic family and friends who buy a few token products.

But why do rank and file IBOs struggle to sell Amway products? Surely Amway has some decent and some good products. But in North America, Amway's goods are generic in nature but sell at premium prices. So, unless you are convinced that their quality is that great for the price, the average Joe is simply going to buy a similar product at WalMart or a Costco. Also, when you must justify and explain to potential customers that you actually provide a better value due to concentration and/or cost per use, it not only becomes labor intensive, but confusing for the average consumer. Add in the past reputation of the Amway name being associated with a scam or a pyramid and you have an extremely tough sell.

Partner stores are often used by IBOs to bring name credibility, but I wonder how many of these products are actually sold to customers.  I suspect that very few products are sold because the price is not that competitive and because many consumers, like myself prefer to touch and feel certain products before making a decision to buy. Even with a money back guarantee, customers don't want to be bothered with returning something via the mail. Also, the term partner store seems odd because Amway IBOs sell partner store goods, but "partner" stores don't sell Amway products. The relationship is not a two-way street, in other words.

Also, while Amway recently started to market their opportunity and goods with national advertising, I believe the advertising is more of a retention issue. IBOs can say "see, we're on TV, we must be credible". I believe it may be too late in North America. In the past. IBOs would say they had greater bonuses because Amway saved money on advertising. Thus IBOs engaged in the most inefficient manner of moving products. They did it person to person and in the past, door to door. The reason why super bowl commercials are so expensive is because they can reach tens or hundreds of millions of people worldwide. But basically, Amway IBOs to sell the products and the opportunity, must do it one person at a time, and they must also overcome the many negative opinions that North Americans have about Amway. Amway sales have been tanking since 2013. Amway revenues have gone from 11.8 billion at its peak in 2013 and dropped each year with 8.6 billion in 2017 being the most recent numbers.

But it is for these reasons that IBOs probably cannot move many products except to some family and friends. In what REAL business can you make a sustainable living, much less fabulous wealth by selling some goods to family and friends? I can't think of any, and you are seriously mislead if you think you can do this with Amway products and earn untold wealth and riches.

Observations About Amway?

 Observation #1: In general, IBOs are less successful in life than others.  Often they are young and in entry level types of jobs.  That is why they are more open to the business and why they can be convinced that there is a shortcut to retirement and perpetual wealth. When I was an IBO, I was not where I wanted to be financially, as I was younger and at the earlier stages of my career. I would not be open to “options” right now, however, many people looking for more in life or a shortcut to retirement may be more susceptible to looking at options. It's just that the Amway opportunity, in my opinion, is a poor option.

Observation #2: The biggest zealots/supporters appear to have the smallest businesses. They talk the talk - but no evidence of walk the walk. Also, any discussion about their personal success with the business is limited and shrouded in secrecy or they will make vague references about their level of success. They will say that their incomes are not relevant to the discussion or will point out a copy of someone's check or show a picture of a diamond's mansion but will never disclose real financials like a REAL business owner would.  

Observation #3: The business has a bad reputation and cannot be marketed to the general public without some degree of deception. It’s why there are so many testimonials of people tricked into attending meetings (including myself). Being straight forward with information will likely get you a resounding “No thanks”.

Observation #4: It would appear that much upline teaching is not focused on actually running a profitable business, but dedication to the system. It’s why so many IBOs don’t seem to know what a profit loss statement is, and don’t bother keeping one themselves. It’s also why the content of many BSMs is to purchase more BSMs. At functions, they will tell you to attend more functions and buy more standing orders, and on standing orders, they will tell you to never quit and to attend more functions.

Observation #5: IBOs in general don’t seem to have planned out their retirement. They are convinced that the Amway opportunity will provide for them when they reach their retirement years. They put down people who are working jobs and investing for their futures. They feel that purchasing function tickets is their investment for retirement. While a fraction of 1% might make some significant money in Quixtar, the vast majority do not. The fact that the majority may not have put forth a Herculean effort is irrelevant in my opinion. The bottom line is that the vast majority will not make an income from this opportunity. To ignore this fact is burying your head in the sand.

***Here is a link to a new Amway blogger. I checked it out and enjoyed the articles:

https://grannyolove.blogspot.com/2018/09/the-dealbreaker.html

My Amway Story?

 I was an IBO back in the 1990s'. Back then I was younger, and I got sucked into the hype that there might be a "shortcut" to riches and early retirement. When you're in your 20's or 30's, the idea of retiring in 5 years with enough money to enjoy life is very enticing. While I was a bit skeptical, I wanted to believe it and because my sponsor was a good friend, I ended up getting involved, believing that my friend would be able to guide me to the promised land. For a while, I appeared successful, sponsoring people and growing my volume (PV). I became what the diamonds called a "mover and shaker". I got to ride to some meetings with the diamond and whatnot. What I didn't realize at the time was that was how the upline nurtured a potential future "platinum" or direct distributor at the time.

While it looked like I was successful and climbing the ladder of success, what I saw behind the scenes was making some money but losing it right back because of functions that required air travel (I'm in Hawaii) or because following upline advice, I was investing in books, and tapes (now cds) and doing everything I could to "duplicate" my upline so I too, could be financially free.

At the time, our upline stood on stage and swore that nobody profited from tools. I thought that was odd because at big functions, we paid more than the cost of a rock concert for example, and I know that the rock stars were making good money, or they wouldn't hold concerts. And there's also the smaller functions and I also knew that rock stars made money selling (tapes at the time) cds. So I knew there was money involved but at the same time, our trusted diamonds said nobody profited and at the time I believed them. Eventually, I quit because at 4000 PV, I had no net profits as promised by upline. They kept telling me not to quit, the money will be there. But they also started trying to control my life. For example, they wanted mt to ask permission to get married, or to buy a new car. These were factors in why I eventually quit, plus the lack of a net profit.

Shortly after I quit, I came across a Newsweek article that completely exposed the fact that the diamonds had lied and they they made HUGE profits on tools. Some making more from tools than Amway. And the tools were supposed to be the secret to Amway success, but they were the secret to the diamond's success. And why wouldn't it? The tools had a much larger profit margin than Amway products, and basically only the emeralds and higher were getting any real money from the tools. I eventually forgot about the article and life went on.

Then one day I was googling to see what had happened to my upline diamond and I came across a forum called "Quixtar Blog" (now defunct) and the entire tools scam and diamond lies were exposed. After learning much and finally understanding the scam that was pulled on me, I started a blog to share my experiences. My blog was very successful, with hundreds of thousands of hits. That blog crashed when it was hacked and sabotaged, probably by an IBO, or possibly an Amway zealot of sorts.

Then in 2009, I started this blog. I made some safeguards to prevent hacking and I've been fighting the good fight ever since. I update this blog so unsuspecting prospects or information seekers can google and find information quickly. At least if they decide to join anyway, it's with full disclosure. Many people find what they need and make informed decisions about Amway. I consider it a public service since there aren't many resources out there anymore.

In my opinion, Amway is a bad idea because the company name is soiled with a bad reputation. Their products are generic in quality but carry a premium price, making it hard to impossible to sell at full retail price to make money. And to succeed, you must recruit a lot of downline, something that most people are not suited for. Most people have a better chance at winning the lottery than succeeding in Amway, which is sad because Amway isn't a game of chance, yet success rates are similar to games of random chance. That's why I don't do Amway.