A Story Of Deception And Brainwashing?

This comment came from another Amway related forum.  These stories seem to have a common theme.  LOL

 Author: Wally

Comment:

I live in the DC metro area and was approached by a guy in Best Buy about a "business opportunity". The word Amway was never mentioned once in the entire conversation. Instead, the focus was on his business and how there was a solid opportunity that shouldn't be missed. I figured it can't hurt, so I was open to listening. Even on his business card, it said nothing of Amway. The guy forwarded me a link to my email of his business which explored social networking. Again, kind of vague. It all came together when I went to my first Amway meeting.

Going in, I had no idea this was Amway. They all took pride in calling themselves entrepreneurs and were all extremely upbeat, positive, and social. The whole session was interesting, but when the speaker started talking about using your existing social networks on Facebook to potentially mine for sales clients...I was a little put off.

At this point, I basically said to my "sponsor", thanks but no thanks. However, he was strategic about his approach. He stayed away for a while, but came back later with a new opportunity to explore the world of the business. Honestly, even though I wasn't all that attracted to the business itself, I figured I may give it a go simply because it is taking me out of my comfort zone, is something brand new, involves numerous highly optimistic, social people, and seems harmless.

We reconnected, my sponsor and I, and I laid out the cash to get up and rolling. Every word out of my sponsor's mouth was a battle cry for victory. He did not know the meaning of defeat, or even the prospect of failing. He was relentless in his perspective that he is "winning". He is victorious in life and life is his to be conquered. It's here that I began to think that he is brainwashed. He seemed almost in denial to some things. Intentionally avoiding reality and choosing to be absorbed in a false notion. Weird.

After I was up and rolling, I attended the meetings, attended the social events, and mingled. I bought a bunch of stuff to meet the monthly PV goals, and also sold what I could. The selling was a lot more difficult than just buying the items myself. Even though the quality of the products are quite good, the prices are not exactly bargains.

After a few months of doing this, I realized that pitching products to family and friends, and in turn, alienating some of them, was not something I wanted to pursue any longer. It quickly became unappealing. And all the friendships made through Amway were friendships crafted through the desire for money. They were all financial transactions in form and substance. I was encouraged strongly to constantly bring new people in, and get them involved. Essentially, I would instruct them in the very same way that I was instructed by my sponsor. Inevitably, I would do my best to mentor them so that they have success, and their success became my success. Once one starts picturing how big the web can be, it can be hard to disengage.

My sponsor embodied very strong conservative Christian beliefs. He seemed to be infatuated with the Bible, and quoted freely from it. I think he thought of himself as a spiritual warrior as well as an entrepreneur. But it's not his products that he's selling. It's Amway's products. And he wasn't a savior; he is just a guy doing the best he can to motivate others to...sell products that are overpriced.

When I finally disentangled myself, he expectedly did not take it well. In so many words, he told me that your life won't be very meaningful once you leave Amway. He also said that he'll make a ton of money and is a part of a multi-million dollar business. That's all well and fine, but does he actually expect to be making millions? He is definitely brain washed by his upline guys. There's pictures of them rolling around in Ferraris and beautiful women...I guess he thinks this is his future.

In any case, I think the Amway business succeeds....at being a total failure. Why encourage marketing to family and friends? What does this say about the seller? That they value what the people closest to them can do for them on a monetary basis? What happens when the answer is no? Does this mean that this friend or family member is reprehensible or a traitor? Also, the products Amway makes can be bought at more or less the same quality at Target or Walmart, but cheaper. What's so special about Amway? Nothing. Starting a "business" is very different than "selling Amway stuff"".

And why the false sense of optimism, even when the reality is staring you right in the face? I suppose that a lot of these hardcore Amway folks are brainwashed into thinking that displaying vulnerability, or anything that might make you appear...human, is weakness. Too bad.

I think the correct term is used by the poster above, Terrance, "suckered". Please don't get suckered in. It all will look appealing. The Amway rep will likely be extraordinarily charismatic, friendly, social, and overall look like a very successful person. The people he's associated with will also be a positive, engaging bunch. However, beneath the surface lies a business, if it can be called that, which is a sham and a waste of time.

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Pigs Don't Know Pigs Stink?

  I recently came across some (older) comments on a blog indicating that they had recently heard comments about "Pigs don't know pigs stink". This stems from a tape recorded by a WWDB diamond named Dave Severn. The slogan was quite popular when I was an IBO and I'm sure that some Amway IBOs still toss around the phrase. It was basically used to describe people who weren't in Amway. They worked hard at their jobs, but they were "broke" and weren't getting anywhere.  At least, that's what Amway IBOs thought.  

At least the Amway IBOs (who were also broke) were doing something about their financial situation (Amway!). So, the ignorant rest of the population didn't know any better, thus the term pigs don't know pigs stink. Having been out of the business and having done a great deal of research about Amway and the Amway groups such as WWDB and BWW, I can say the exact same thing about IBOs. IBOs don't know IBOs stink. 

Of course, I don't mean that literally, but business building IBOs order their products each month. They pay for their standing orders and attend all the functions. They try to recruit new prospects and they use all the catchy phrases taught by their upline or off a cd. They are very likely losing money each and every month, all the while thinking they are becoming successful and better or nicer people. 

At the end of the year, they sometimes suffer massive losses in the thousands or tens of thousands because purchasing all of the tools and training materials add up to a tidy sum of cash after a while. At the functions, they smile and act positive, even when they are losing their shirts. Upline will edify their dedication and teach them two very important, but self-serving advice. They will teach IBOs to never quit, and that if IBOs quit or fail, it is always their own fault, even if they did everything upline taught them. In this manner, upline removes any responsibility for the IBO's failure. Ironically, upline is quick to accept responsibility for any success (even if there is little). 

All the while, IBOs are attending all the meetings, doing all the steps they have been taught. They act alike and in many cases, look alike. Most of them also share a common result. They are losing money, and many are losing lots of it. They are simply taught to ignore the losses and to remain positive. Most people eventually figure it out and walk away from Amway. Most will never mention their involvement again and because many are sponsored by friends and family, will never file any formal complaint or discuss their displeasure. The IBOs continue to associate with their positive and active fellow IBOs, all the while their bank accounts are shrinking and transferring funds to upline. Pigs don't know pigs stink indeed.

P.S.  I also recall one of Dave Severn's stories where he seemed to frown on investing,  He said he recalled a stock broker calling him with a "hot tip" on a stock.  He laughed and told the story of how he said (not verbatim), "Look here Ace, I'll invest as much as you are".  As if to imply that the broker was unwilling to invest in his own recommendation.  It seems as if Amway diamonds didn't want people to invest because it would tie up disposable income that could otherwise be spent on tools and functions.  After I left Amway, I started to invest in the big tech companies and I'm doing quite well these days.  :)

It's sad that diamonds are so self serving and greedy that they give advice that not only scams their faithful downline, but to discourage investing and/or college for Amway is disgusting and insidious.

Diamonds don't know diamonds stink?

If You Work It?

 The Amway business works if you work it! That's what many Amway enthusiasts will claim. I do not believe that is true and I will further explain in this post. Many IBOs who claim that the business works are usually new and are unable to show any evidence that the business works, except perhaps to show a photocopied check from an upline diamond or the like. To date, no Amway IBO who posts on this blog as shown evidence that Amway works. And there is no evidence that hard work results in Amway success.   Maybe it works if you're a diamond selling tools and functions to a closed audience.  Maybe it works if you deceive your faithful downline.  

Let me make a disclaimer that some people might be able to make significant money from Amway, but most of those folks are usually tenured diamonds who are almost in an exclusive club. There is only a short list of new diamonds that I know of in the US, and I have heard that even these new diamonds may have had legs in other countries. It would seem that Amway is not growing much in the US and Canada. Also of note, Amway does not release figures that are separate between Amway North America and the rest of their overseas operations, so information is limited.

Ok, so Amway enthusiasts claim that the business works if you work it. Business in its simplest form is selling a product or service for a profit. Yet many IBOs spend so much of their time doing other things, as advised by their upline "mentors" who sell them training materials that take up much of their valuable time. Listening to audios/cds, attending functions, reading books, and other training activities not only costs the IBO money, but takes up valuable time in non income producing activities. Nobody makes sales reading books or attending seminars. Inviting people to see "the plan" may be a way to help generate volume but with Amway's reputation, even this is a hit and (mostly) miss activity. 

Many IBOs spend almost all of their time doing these activities (the work) when they could be better off not getting the training and focusing on selling the Amway products and services. Even that comes with a handicap as Amway products as a whole, costs a lot more than purchasing similar or the same products as a big retailer such as Costco or WalMart. It is why most IBOs eventually get discouraged and quit far before the promoted 2-5 year plan. 

Few people will even bother to see the plan once you mention "Amway" and for those who are open minded and motivated to register end up having to dead with a hard to sell opportunity along with high priced common commodities such as soap, vitamins and energy drinks. It's pretty easy to see that the business does not work, even for most of those who actually work it. There are simply too many issues with the business that handicaps those brave enough to try. It seems even the fiercest defenders of Amway are unable to provide a shred of evidence that they have actually made a profit from this opportunity.

The Struggle Is Real?

 There's been much debate recently over the issue of IBOs selling products. Now of course in the IBO world, there are going to be some IBOs who are exceptional at selling products and possibly in foreign countries where Amway has not spoiled their reputation as it apparently has in North America, it might be possible to sell some products. But the experience of a typical IBO probably cannot be one where products flow to customers regularly. Now I do not wish to debate the merits of whether or not downline are considered customers as that is an endless and pointless debate because the bottom line would be that uplines are making their income on the backs of their downline, thus confirming the appearance of a product pyramid. Aside from downline, it would appear that the remaining customers are mostly sympathetic family and friends who buy a few token products.

But why do rank and file IBOs struggle to sell Amway products? Surely Amway has some decent and some good products. But in North America, Amway's goods are generic in nature but sell at premium prices. So, unless you are convinced that their quality is that great for the price, the average Joe is simply going to buy a similar product at WalMart or a Costco. Also, when you must justify and explain to potential customers that you actually provide a better value due to concentration and/or cost per use, it not only becomes labor intensive, but confusing for the average consumer. Add in the past reputation of the Amway name being associated with a scam or a pyramid and you have an extremely tough sell.

Partner stores are often used by IBOs to bring name credibility, but I wonder how many of these products are actually sold to customers. I suspect that very few products are sold because the price is not that competitive and because many consumers, like me prefer to touch and feel certain products before making a decision to buy. Even with a money back guarantee, customers don't want to be bothered with returning something via the mail. Also, the term partner store seems odd because Amway IBOs sell partner store goods, but "partner" stores don't sell Amway products. The relationship is not a two-way street, in other words.

Also, while Amway recently started to market their opportunity and goods with national advertising, I believe the advertising is more of a retention issue. IBOs can say "see, we're on TV, we must be credible". I believe it may be too late in North America. In the past. IBOs would say they had greater bonuses because Amway saved money on advertising. Thus, IBOs engaged in the most inefficient manner of moving products. They did it person to person and in the past, door to door. The reason why super bowl commercials are so expensive is because they can reach tens or hundreds of millions of people worldwide. But basically, Amway IBOs to sell the products and the opportunity, must do it one person at a time, and they must also overcome the many negative opinions that North Americans have about Amway. Amway sales have been tanking since 2013. Amway revenues have gone from 11.8 billion at its peak in 2013 and dropped each year with 8.6 billion in 2017 being the most recent numbers.

But it is for these reasons that IBOs probably cannot move many products except to some family and friends. In what REAL business can you make a sustainable living, much less fabulous wealth by selling some goods to family and friends? I can't think of any, and you are seriously misleading if you think you can do this with Amway products and earn untold wealth and riches.

Standing Ovation?

 One of the weird things I observed about Amway IBOS is how they worship the diamond as if he/she is some kind of divine being.  When you look at it logically, what has the diamond done to deserve such adulation?   The diamond qualified for the pin one time and possibly one time only.  Heck, Joecool was a 4000 pin.   Does that mean new IBOS should take counsel from me since I achieved a fairly high level?  Even if I’m not currently qualified?  Nobody knows if a diamond is currently qualified because Amway doesn't publish a list of currently qualified diamonds.  Once you earn the pin, it's yours forever, even if you have a 100 PV business, your pin will remain a diamond.

Amway doesn’t say which diamonds are still qualified, so nobody really knows.  And that is why you see former copies of bonus checks as evidence of success.  A current copy of a check would be better but still would not indicate what kinds of expenses that diamond had.  Some years back, I believe diamond club was held in Hawaii, on the island of Maui.  I managed to make contact with the hotel and they informed me that 160 people were in attendance at the event.  Now 160 was the headcount and included spouses and children.  This, the number of diamonds may have been quite small.  But what is telling is that only qualified diamonds get invited to diamond club.

A good example would be my WWDB upline diamond who probably qualified diamond in the 1980’s.  Back then there was no internet, and the business was very different than it is today.  That diamond also filed for chapter 7 bankruptcy in 2009 or so but is still revered as having superior financial acumen.  But based on what track record?  

For some reason the audiences just assume that the diamond is successful and wealthy without really knowing the financial status of these leaders.   For all we know these diamonds are paying mortgages and in debt like the rest of the US population.  Why would it be any different when these diamonds show off a lifestyle of excess and even encourage IBOS to get into debt to purchase tools and function tickets.  If you ask upline to verify their financial claims, you’ll be told it’s none of your business.

If your diamond’s financials are none of your business, then you should not consider displays of wealth as any kind of evidence of success.  More likely that diamond lives check to check like much of the rest of the population.  What other conclusion is logical?

Reaping And Sowing?

 One of the things that many prospects and IBOs believe is that they will make an investment of time and money into their Amway business and that they will eventually get their time and money back in such abundance that they can walk off their jobs and walk the beaches of the world while living in luxury because of lifelong residual income, all because of the Amway opportunity. For IBOs and prospects of Amway, I wonder if any of you can actually name even five people who have actually accomplished this? How about two? Keep in mind that there have probably been tens of millions of people who also wanted this and tried Amway and the systems, only to find that reality paints a different picture.

Many people they will reap what they sow. While that may sound true, I guess the next logical question is what are you sowing? Are you deceptive when prospecting people to see the plan? Are you having to justify and fudge high-priced Amway product comparisons that are not favorable? Are you actually selling goods to customers and actually qualifying for your Amway bonus or are you self-consuming and getting others to do the same? Do you have a negative opinion (broke losers) about people who don't join Amway or are not interested in seeing the plan? Do you now think your boss and your job are evil? Do you leave your kids at home to attend endless numbers of functions and meetings? You reap what you sow correct? The question is what kinds of seeds are you actually planting?  Seeds of deceit and outright lies?

I wonder what some WWDB diamonds were sowing? At least the ones who had their homes foreclosed, and one in particular was involved in chapter 7 bankruptcy proceedings.  Are they reaping what they sowed? What about the WWDB diamonds who got divorced? What were they sowing? Are IBOs sure about wanting to make the claim of reaping and sowing? And yes, Joecool the person also has his own flaws, but the difference is that I am not on stage proclaiming to be flawless and selling tools to IBOs for a profit.  Many diamonds would imply when they speak (and profit from) their tens of thousands of downlines. I am not earning a living by deceiving people and profiting from people I am supposed to be helping. But your upline diamonds are. Take a close look at the fruit on the WWDB tree.

Not Enough Effort?

 I believe there's a gigantic myth spread by upline that people who ultimately fail in Amway simply didn't work/try hard enough, or didn't put in enough time, and ended up quitting too early. Based on personal experience and observations of others, I truly believe that to be NOT true. Now I agree that many IBOs do little or nothing, but generally, these folks don't complain, and their losses are generally limited to the signup fee or kit. Most do not seek refunds, file complaints and simply chalk up the loss as a learning experience.  

I myself, put in some months of very dedicated work towards building a business. I had a decent sized group and was headed for platinum. But the fact of the matter is that even though my group was growing, I wasn't making a net profit. I seriously doubt that any of my downline made a net profit, primarily because of the business and tools expenses. I drove the miles; I showed the plan, and I attended all the meetings and functions. I did what I was advised by my upline. My net profit at 4000 PV was little to nothing with a net loss when all the business expenses were factored i such as gas money, functions, standing orders, etc.  

My upline also did a lot of work, and he put in the hours, drove the miles and attended everything. He told me his net profit was not any of my business. (If you hear that, it's a huge red flag). I suspect my upline and sponsor also broke even or lost money despite working very hard and doing what they were advised to. I later read the assessment made by the Wisconsin attorney general Bruce Craig, who examined the tax returns of (I believe it was platinums/direct distributors) of IBOs in his state and they averaged a net annual loss of $900. While the study is a bit dated, the business has not really changed except that there are more expenses and tools associated with the business today, than back when the study occurred.  

I also question the validity of Amway defenders who claim that people did not work hard enough or did not run their business properly. I seriously doubt that anyone has done a comprehensive study of people who actually made an effort to build an Amway business, to determine why they may not have the success they desired. However, I can make my own conclusions. Many IBOs are taught to buy from themselves with little sales. They're taught to buy tools, even when they aren't making progress in the business. People who are struggling in Amway are often told that they need to sponsor more people, show more plans. (A struggling business opens new stores to improve business?).

In my opinion, hard work and success in Amway have little relationship. Sure, there is work needed. But working hard doesn't assure you of anything. You need to be able to develop a following. Just working hard has nothing to do with long term sustainable success. There are plenty of examples of hard workers who lost money. What I believe happens, is that IBOs get excited, get started and contact people and show plans. But Amway has the reputation of "pyramid" or "scam" and people quickly get discouraged and stop building the business. Those who try to sell Amway goods find that a month's supply of multi vitamins ($80) double x is a tough sell, or $50 cases of bottled water. They also get discouraged and quit.  

Only those who can somehow recruit and replace those quit end up having a chance to grow their group large enough to sell them tools, which then makes selling Amway products less important. But I don't buy for a minute that people simply do not succeed in Amway primarily because they don't work hard or smart enough. I challenge anyone to prove that a lack of work is the reason for Amway failure. The system is designed for only a few to succeed. Examine the 6-4-2, there is 1 platinum and 78 downline, and that's assuming everyone "did some work".

IBOs fail in vast quantities, but not because they don't do any work or try hard enough.