Why Blog About Amway?

 Over the years, I've had comments left here, some deleted and some published, with IBOs and/or Amway supporters calling me names and accusing me of "bashing" Amway. I believe that these folks are misguided. If you carefully read my blog posts, many are not about Amway the corporation, but are aimed at the abusive practices of certain AMOs, or the groups that sell their system of tapes, cds, books, KATE, and functions. I believe that Amway the corporation is somewhat culpable as they did not reign in the abusers, but still, it is certain LOSs who teach bad business practices and give IBOs bad advice, which incidentally, costs the IBOs money.

Joecool was once upon a time, an Amway IBO, and officially quit Amway sometime in 1998. The name quixtar was already floating around. I quit, got on with my life and basically forgot about Amway. But more and more, I discovered that my upline leaders had been liars and had seriously misrepresented the business. I am from the era where upline leaders told us that nobody made a cent from the tools, which is now known as a lie. They told us that diamonds pay cash for nearly everything, which includes homes. We know that is a lie. Based on what I heard about my sponsor, I believe it is still taught as my sponsor, who is a physician, is still renting a small home in a rural area on Oahu. I started to participate on the now defunct Quixtar blog to learn more about the tool scam, and I started blogging to be able to help others learn about what I had discovered. My blog used to get thousands of visitors each day, although that is no longer the case. I have helped many people over the years who benefited by the experiences and information that I have shared. I do not receive any financial compensation for blogging.

For those who call Joecool a loser, let me talk about some things I have accomplished in life since I quit Amway. I received several promotions at work, and recently started a new job where I was offered a pretty nice salary.  I am now retired and I'm only in my 50's as of this writing.   I own my home (I did not pay in cash, LOL). I bowled a 300 game, made a hole in one, and ran several marathons. I'm just an average middle-class citizen in Hawaii. I started Joecool's blog in 2006 or so. My old blog has been deleted as the host did not maintain the site well and I eventually got hacked and sabotaged. I started this current site on blogger in late 2009.

I am not here to "steal" anyone's dream. I am not here to "bash" Amway. But Amway, the business opportunity is one where most people do not make money to begin with. Add in the expenses for tapes, cds, voicemail and functions and you have almost a 100% chance of failure. Yet some upline leaders will promote Amway as a easy shortcut to retirement with a surefire chance of success if you dedicate to the system. But the system does not work. There is no bonafide evidence that the system works. This is what Joecool's blog is about - primarily the systems and its problems.  And to expose the many lies uplines use to bait and hook their faithful downline into buying tools and functions.

The Amway Iceberg?

 I was in discussion on another forum and a comment was made about Amway being an iceberg, because you see the shiny clean ice on the top, but you do not see the majority of the iceberg. Or in other words, the diamonds show you the fancy suits, jewelry, care, mansions, jets and what you don't see is the financial carnage that takes place in their downlines at times. My former upline would tell audiences that they could skip meals to buy more standing orders because you might hear the one thing that could make your business explode.  For most IBOs, that explosion never came no matter how much effort was made.

Sure, on standing orders, you won't hear too much of the unethical and "wrong" teaching, because some of this is monitored by Amway, but it's the night owls and smaller group meetings where the real teaching is disseminated. This is where you are told to practically sell your soul to achieve in Amway. This is where the teaching comes in where you should be purchasing excessive amounts of tools in order to succeed. This is where you are told to never miss a function unless it's for your own funeral. A newbie or casual observer won't see these things but if you ever commit to becoming a business builder, this is likely to become your world.

You don't see the backstage at functions and meetings. Former rubies and platinums have made commentary about the diamonds literally laughing about how gullible the downline are. You don't see the where the cash collected at the meetings and functions go. There had been some past comments about literally, suitcases of cash leaving the premises. If your upline has a mansion and a fleet of nice cars, it's likely that your tools money played a significant part in your diamond obtaining it.

It's a simple conclusion. The tools have a higher markup than Amway products and have fewer beneficiaries to split up the bonus. A $7.00 Amway product might cost $3.00 or so to make and the rest will be bonus money split up by the layers of IBOs. Whereas a $7.00 cd might take 50 cents to produce and only platinums and higher receive any compensation from this source of income. But rank and file IBOs rarely ever see a true and transparent picture of this business. It is shrouded in secrecy, just like the underside of an iceberg. I challenge IBOs to be real businessmen and women and ask upline the tough questions about where the money is made. Do not accept rhetoric and anecdotal stories. In real business, schedule C business tax returns are the normal way for verification of business income. If you are going to "invest" your hard earned money into the system to the benefit of upline, you should demand this information.

Would any of you purchase a conventional business from someone without proof that it is profitable? Why would an Amway business be any different?

Amway IBOs Are Funny?

  I often get a kick out of Amway IBOs who make outlandish claims and then mumble, stumble and bumble to back up their claims, or to offer at least a verbal explanation of their claims. I believe many IBOs, newbies in particular are loaded with enthusiasm, but lacking in actual Amway business knowledge. Certain groups have a certain philosophy, which sometimes comes out in a conversation. But I believe in most cases, the philosophy is one of talk and not action. Amway's own numbers seem to back up many of the claims made by critics, such as the low amount of sales to people who are not IBOs.

I recently saw a blog post by a WWDB IBO who says he got a nice tax refund from the government, mainly because of his business deductions. He also claims that his Amway business is booming and that he is making money. Now I'm not a tax genius, but if you are writing off losses on your business, you would get a refund, and if you were actually making money, then you would actually be paying more taxes because your taxable income would then be higher. It's amazing how some IBOs will try to fake success in ways that clearly show they are putting up a facade.  

Other obvious ways are IBOs who say they are brand new in Amway but are making over $5000 a month. Now I do believe that it can be "possible" to make some money in Amway, and obviously some people do make a nice income from Amway, but generally, these will be tenured higher pins. The vast majority of IBOs do not make any significant money from Amway and if these same IBOs were participating in the teaching systems such as Network 21, WWDB, or BWW, then they are likely ending up with a net loss because the monthly expenditures for voicemail, functions, books and standing orders exceed (by far) the monthly income for most IBOs.

Even diamonds who want to flash fancy cars and gadgets. I believe many of these diamonds are not making as much as they want you to believe and in fact, if you just get a calculator and figure out what a flashy lifestyle costs, you will see that it will simply not be sustainable on Amway income, even when you factor in the tools income. Some diamonds whose incomes were exposed when they quit or had legal proceedings indicate that while a diamond (or higher) income may be nice, it will not sustain the kinds of lifestyles they speak about at Dream Night functions, or other functions where great wealth is displayed.

They may be fooling (some) new prospects, but they do not fool me, and I hope they do not fool you. But it is funny when you see it happening.

The Solution?

 I just shake my head when I read about the kinds of advice that Amway IBOs receive from their trusted mentors and upline.   Now let me say that I would have nothing to criticize if downline IBOs were regularly progressing and moving up the ranks and actually making money.  But it’s obvious that most IBOS are spinning their wheels getting nowhere fast and the only advice that upline seemingly gives is to spend more money on functions and tools that are already proven to be ineffective.   Your Amway business isn't growing?  Buy more tools and functions?  What kind of business expends more resources on non-revenue producing materials other than Amway IBOs?

When most real business owners are cutting expenses or looking at strategies to bring in more revenue, Amway IBOS and uplines are advising people to spend more money on activities that don’t make them money.  Why not just get a pile of cash and burn it?  The result would be the same except the diamonds wouldn't profit from it.  Keep in mind that the upline profits from the sale of tools and functions so it seems pretty dubious that upline would advise struggling downline to spend more time and money on things that haven’t worked in the first place.  

What is the real solution to a failing business?  I can’t tell you that, but I can tell you that spending more money on things that do not result in more sales and profits is not the solution.  Most dedicated IBOs lose money because of the tools and functions which are not effective in helping IBOS become profitable.  What makes it more insidious is that uplines profit nicely for giving downline bad
advice even if their bad advice results in bigger losses.  And the sad part is the upline will say they would never mislead downline (on purpose), which in my opinion is a huge lie.  They almost always mislead downline for their own profit, again, in my opinion.

When it comes to Amway, it seems apparent to me that the only logical solution is to walk away, seek refunds on whatever you can and find another activity to make some income. Sitting at home watching TV is more profitable to most IBOS than actively trying to run an Amway business.

Con Artists?

 A site visitor comment mentioned that a diamond us basically a con artist.  Con is short for confidence.  They get you to trust them with small talk, building you up and eliciting your goals and dreams.  Once they get you there, suddenly they try to close the deal by saying you can’t afford to open a real business so Amway makes perfect sense and with their nearly foolproof system you can’t go wrong.  This is where the hook comes in.  You might take "baby" steps, but eventually the hard sell comes.

They may start you out with a few free audios or meetings, but the bar gets raised soon enough.  You’ll be told that a real business owner needs to invest in their business.  An investment into learning about the business and how to build it.  You just need to be reachable and open minded and follow the footsteps of your upline leaders.  Ironically many IBOS call their upline mentors when in reality, they are like con artists working a scam or working theirs "marks" as one might call it.  

In a way, they’re not much different than any run of the mill scammer.  You get the prospect hooked and get them to hand over money.  One difference is that the upline just takes smaller amounts but on a regular basis via their system of books, audios, functions, meetings and other educational materials. If Amway IBOS actually did the work and many were profitable, my opinion would be different.  Instead, the masses contribute to the diamonds lifestyle with the irony being that the IBOS treat the diamonds like rock stars and worship them.  That's like a guy smiling as he reaches into your pocket and takes your wallet.

The vast majority of IBOs make nothing or lose money.  That isn't even remotely disputable.  Some people lose a lot of money.  What’s worse is the diamonds apparently don’t care that many are hurting and possibly struggling to make ends meet.   But they continue to exploit their down line by running functions but charging high prices for giving the IBOs useless information.  But in the end, the Amway business is person to person and typically face to face.  I can’t imagine any serious useful teaching coming from upline.  Not that normal functions have useful teaching.  Where's the actual sales to customers?  Where's the attention to someone's bottom line?  Aren't those things more important than having IBOs stalking people in coffee shops?

In the end. it is my informed opinion that Amway diamonds operate just like con artists but they try to make themselves look like business associates and mentors.  Big deal.

Joecool's Blog?

 Over the years, I've had numerous comments left here, some deleted (for racial and abusive language) and the vast majority published.   Many Amway IBOs and/or Amway supporters often calling me names and accusing me of "bashing" Amway. I believe that these folks are misguided. If you carefully read my blog posts, many are not about Amway the corporation, but are aimed at the abusive practices of certain AMOs, or the groups that sell their system of tapes, cds, books, KATE, and functions. I believe that Amway the corporation is somewhat culpable as they did not reign in the abusers, but still, it is certain LOSs who teach bad business practices and give IBOs bad advice, which incidentally, costs the IBOs money.

Joecool was once upon a time, an Amway IBO, and officially quit Amway sometime in 1998. The name quixtar was already floating around. I quit, got on with my life and basically forgot about Amway. But more and more, I discovered that my upline leaders had been liars and had seriously misrepresented the business. I am from the era where upline leaders told us that nobody made a cent from the tools, which is now known as a lie. They told us that diamonds pay cash for nearly everything, which includes homes. We know that is a lie. Based on what I heard about my sponsor, I believe it is still taught as my sponsor, who is a physician, is still renting a small home in a rural area on Oahu. I started to participate on the now defunct Quixtar blog to learn more about the tool scam, and I started blogging to be able to help others learn about what I had discovered. My blog used to get thousands of visitors each day, although that is no longer the case. I have helped many people over the years who benefited by the experiences and information that I have shared. I do not receive any financial compensation for blogging.

For those who call Joecool a loser, let me talk about some things I have accomplished in life sine I quit Amway. I received several promotions at work, and recently got promoted to a new job where I was offered a pretty nice salary.  I am now retired and I'm only in my late 50's as of this writing.   I own my home (I did not pay in cash, LOL). I bowled a 300 game, made a hole in one, and ran several marathons. I'm just an average middle-class citizen in Hawaii. I started Joecool's blog in 2006 or so. My old blog has been deleted as the host did not maintain the site well and I eventually got hacked and sabotaged. I started this current site on blogger in late 2009.

I am not here to "steal" anyone's dream. I am not here to "bash" Amway. But Amway, the business opportunity is one where most people do not make money to begin with. Add in the expenses for tapes, cds, voicemail and functions and you have almost a 100% chance of failure. Yet some upline leaders will promote Amway as a easy shortcut to retirement with a surefire chance of success if you dedicate to the system. But the system does not work. There is no bonafide evidence that the system works. This is what Joecool's blog is about - primarily the systems and its problems.  And to expose the many lies uplines use to bait and hook their faithful downline into buying tools and functions.

An Observation?

 http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=192279&page=8

It's refreshing to see so many good people on this forum telling the truth about Amway. It looks like the pro-Amway shills here and on other sites are becoming increasingly outnumbered and desperate. I've read through this entire thread and think it is hilarious how many times the shill has to move the goal-posts or play word games to make Amway look like an amazing business opportunity.

I was originally introduced to Amway many years ago in my late teens by an uncle of mine. I attended a few of their seminars, and was impressed at first. But the whole thing started to seem ridiculous and unrealistic and so I didn't get involved any further. Also, I'm not that materialistic, so Amway's message doesn't appeal to me. I wish my uncle had been more skeptical.

My uncle was very devoted to Amway for a few years. He bought all their products(especially the tapes and books), tried to get others to buy them, and also tried to recruit all his family and friends into his new religion. He eventually lost money and friends and alienated himself from much of his family.

Already heavily in debt, he eventually fell for another, even bigger get-rich-quick scam shortly after quitting Amway(to Amway's credit, they don't threaten to kill anyone for leaving Amway). This one robbed him of his entire life savings. The scammers got away with it because they knew how to play him right(he met one of them through Amway). His wife divorced him soon after.

As if this wasn't enough, after making a modest financial recovery with his business over the course of several years, he loses it all to yet another scam. He had to borrow heavily from the few friends he had left since no bank would ever give him a loan, and almost no one in the family has anything to do with him anymore. I haven't seen him for 15 years.

One thing I wonder about my uncle is if all those seminars and inspirational tapes and books softened him up to fall for all those other scams he fell for after quitting Amway(he didn't have a reputation for being gullible before joining Amway, though he was never that bright to begin with). If I remember correctly, he tended to blame himself for failing at Amway, and may have never understood that it was a big scam or at least not a good business opportunity.

I still remember those crazy seminars and how they told everyone that joining the Amway cult will likely lead to yachts, exotic vacations surrounded by hot bikini babes, and shiny expensive cars, among other symbols of wealth. Everyone is told at the seminars and in the "tools" that they have all this unfulfilled potential, but to realize this potential we must avoid those small-minded "dream killers"(skeptical family members and friends).

The story about my stupid uncle is true. There are many other people out there just like him who have fallen for Amway and others MLMs. The few people I've met who claimed they were very successful at Amway usually seemed sleazy or I would find out years later they were up to their eyeballs in debt.

The person who said before that the people who regularly attend these seminars are mostly fools and misfits was spot on.

Responsibility?

 One of the disturbing things I have noticed about Amway IBOs and IBO leaders is how they will tell downline to trust them. To trust them as they have already blazed a trail. No need to re-invent the wheel. Just ride the coattails of your upline to success. The system is proven. Many IBOs take this to heart and put forth tremendous effort. Then when they fail, upline will shun them and tell them that the failure is their own. That they are personally responsible for failure. The sad thing is that many IBOs believe this and allow their upline a "pass" when it comes to responsibility.

Now I am not talking about IBOs who sign up and do nothing or never place an order. I do believe that the fact that many IBOs sign up and do nothing brings concerns about how these IBOs were recruited, but I do not recall ever seeing an IBO do nothing and then complain that Amway was a scam or anything like that. What does concern me and should concern Amway prospects is that the IBOs are paying for the advice that doesn't work. A dedicated IBO who is on standing order, book of the month and attending functions are paying for these tools in order to be successful, or successful as their upline claims they will be.

What's interesting, however, is that many people who are critical of Amway and the systems, put forth much effort, did everything they were told, and did not find the success that upline promoted, or in some cases, guaranteed. My former sponsor was still active; last I heard and has been in Amway for over 20 years. I do not believe he has ever gone beyond platinum, and I know that he was never a Q12 platinum. Some Amway apologists might see being a platinum as a bonus, but when you are hard core sold out to the systems, platinum is a break even or make a small profit business. Factor in that time spent by husband and wife and these folks are breaking even or making a fraction of minimum wage. Is this the dream that will allow you to buy mansions with a cash payment?

What is also disturbing is how people will tout the system as responsible for any success but hide the vast majority that the system doesn't help. Sure, some will succeed in Amway, but for every success, there are hundreds if not thousands or tens of thousands who fail. And if you consider diamond as the benchmark of success, the failures could be in the millions. As I said, some succeed, but very very few in relation to the number who try. Going diamond is probably less common in the US than winning the lottery.

Succeed and the systems and upline take credit, but fail or quit and it is your own responsibility. Are these the kinds of leaders or mentors you want advice from? It's a matter of "heads I win and tails you lose" (not in yout favor) if you buy into this system.

The Secret Of Amway Success?

  My upline diamond used to say that the key to success is Amway is duplication, or copying.  He would use an analogy of being in grade school and copying someone else’s answers and that if you can master that one skill, you will be successful in Amway.  Even things downline IBOs do should be duplicatable is what upline would day, meaning others need to be able to copy it.  But oddly, the few people who can actually copy or duplicate their way to success is very miniscule.  In fact, it seems like most IBOs wind up copying each other while doing what upline advises and they still lose money in droves.  

Doesn’t that sound sweet and simple?  Just copy as if you’re in school and looking over the shoulder of the class brainiac. Very easy and straightforward right?  But obviously that concept doesn’t work.  If it did, there would be a lot of success constantly churning from the rank-and-file IBOs.  But instead, what we see is a revolving door of people coming and going (quitting) without making a net profit or losing money, generally from business expenses such as tools and functions.  Many IBOs may try for a while but find the process difficult and frankly, frustrating along the way, not to mention the part about the masses losing money on a regular basis.

And it’s no wonder that duplication doesn’t work in real life because the system is too severely flawed.  You are buying and/or selling products that are relatively unknown and generic in nature but being sold at premium prices.  Now that’s not to say all Amway products are bad or are of bad value but overall, you can find better value if you shop at Costco or Walmart.   It’s pretty hard to dispute that unless you’re a fully dedicated and indoctrinated IBO.   I can go to Costco for example, a get a cart full of stuff for a few hundred dollars and the same amount of cash gets you maybe a handbasket of stuff from Amway.

In general, most upline teaching has “core” steps for IBOs to follow and while they are not complicated, they are difficult to follow.  In particular, finding people agreeable to see the plan or to sell products to are difficult tasks and you can’t just duplicate yourself to success.  But what IBOs can do is listen to audios, read books, buy their defacto 100 PV quota, and attend all meetings and functions.  This is what the majority of core IBOs do, based on my own observations from my time in the business as an IBO myself.

Sadly, the steps that are easily copied or duplicated are the ones that cost IBOs money, and the steps that are vital to growth such as selling products and showing the plan are the ones that are nearly impossible to duplicate. And that in a nutshell is why the vast majority of IBOs make nothing or lose money in the Amway business opportunity. And that is my well-informed opinion.  

No Crossline?

  One of the really stupid and hypocritical things that upline taught the group was no cross lining. In other words, if you had a different sponsor or upline diamond, you were not to talk about business with other business owners.  This is stupid because an effective way to learn techniques and to get tips is to talk to other rank and file business owners.  You exchange ideas and tips on how to do things better.  Why would upline discourage this unless they want to control your information intake, in my informed opinion?

If not, why are IBOs expected to attend (and pay for) meetings where a cross line diamond is speaking?  Why would IBOs pay for audios to hear cross line speakers tell them about the business?   The premise is that a cross line doesn’t have a direct interest in your Amway business, but it seems that cross lining is ok if your upline can profit from it via the sales of audios and functions.   

The real reason the diamonds don’t want you talking to others is because the absolute truth might come out.  That you may have been highly dedicated to Amway and the systems for years and did everything that was asked of you only to suffer a net loss of income.  Or that you did everything that upline taught you, but you were still unable to sponsor a single down line.  In my case also, my sponsor committed an "Amway sin" by bouncing a bonus check to my business.  I'm sure that's taboo to speak about.  

Another thing is that the rank and file might compare what they’ve been taught and begin to realize that they’re being scammed.  I once spoke to a cross line IBO and that’s when I started to realize how stupid some of our practices were.  I was an IBO in the old days where you call in your orders and pick up the products.  Our group’s practice took hours and hours because you had to go to your sponsor‘s house and read off your list as they filled your order.  My cross line friend said their upline just put all your stuff in a box and noted anything that was not yet fulfilled. You paid and left in minutes. 

So, this is just another example of stupid business practices taught and perpetuated by upline.  But the main reason is they just don’t want the rank and file to speak the truth about what’s really going on in the business.  When you have this kind of teaching, you’re better off running as fast as you can in the other direction. 

Merits Of The System

 Amway has been around for a long time. When the company first began, it wasn't uncommon for people to go door to door, perhaps with products in a radio flyer to sell them as a way to make some extra money. There was no extensive training program that I know of and certainly, there wasn't the stigma that the company has now. But in today's world, when people refer to Amway as being a scam, what they are usually referring to the motivational leaders and the associated systems. I believe that the systems were first invented as a genuine way to train distance groups, but the income and power of systems seduced some upline leaders into becoming conmen. Thus, I believe that many if not most systems are corrupted. I witnessed personally and still hear of stories where IBOs are encouraged to go into debt or sacrifice basic family needs in order to purchase more system materials. Amway's involvement in this is knowing that these abuses occurred and not taking any substantial action.

But what are the merits of the program when broken down? Many Amway defenders are quick to point out that many IBOs "do nothing", which may be true, but for the sake of argument, let's not even consider the ones who do nothing. Take the 6-4-2 plan that many use in recruiting. It involves 1 IBO with 78 downlines, all of whom do 100 PV. This plan also generally assumes that IBOs will be a part of the system apparently, because non system IBOs generally do not have the dedication to keep moving and selling products. This is because many systems teach IBOs that they are successful when they lose money! In 6-4-2. you have one platinum, allegedly the break-even point for system IBOs, and 78 non platinum, spending money on products, and winding up with a net loss, if they are dedicated to the system.

Of course, system expenses vary, depending on which system you are a part of. I have heard IBOs mention that their system expenses may be as low as $75 a month, to over $1000 month for hard core fully dedicated IBOs. I have issued a challenge, which no one has ever undertaken, to shows an actually platinum group where the collective group made a net profit after system expenses were accounted for. Noone has ever come forward to disprove this point. I believe a retailing group could show a net profit, but I do not believe that a group of prosumers or buy from yourselfers could ever collectively net a profit.

So for Amway IBOs and prospects, please keep in mind that it is the system that is often the downfall of many IBOs. A dedication to any system is very likely to nearly guarantee that you will end up with a net loss as an IBO. Can someone still succeed? Sure, but your chances are similar to that of someone hitting a big jackpot in the lottery.

Low Overhead?

   One of the major selling points for the Amway business was low overhead (basically business expenses) and the ability to make quick profits.  But is this true or just another list of lies told by the diamonds?   Basically when you’re being pitched on Amway, you're told that you can sell stuff to make money, and that you can save money by purchasing from yourself.   On the surface, who doesn't want to make money or save money?

Then because you have low or no overhead expenses, Amway just makes sense.  But it’s all just a selling point because the upline diamond will then sell you overhead.  In other words, they will sell you on the vital necessity to purchase tools and functions.  I questioned this as a prospect and was told that so and so diamond was a multi millionaire and feels that tools are as vital as breathing air but I was welcome to go it alone and succeed where nobody else has (without tools).   So to the newbie or prospect, the tools are defacto required when framed in that manner.

This claim that Amway has little to no overhead is an outright lie because in the Amway business, the tools are your primary business expenses, or overhead.  Even if you manage to sell a few products to actual customers for a profit, more than likely you will still wind up with a net loss because the ongoing use of tools and functions can become expensive over time.  Many former IBOs have indicated that you can pile up thousands of dollars in losses over a few months and much more if you remain dedicated to the system and the teaching.  

Now the cost of tools and functions would be worth it if the system was churning out success stories on a regular basis. To try and up sell this, diamonds will show you examples of a new platinum or other pin, but won’t mention that a bunch of other big pins may have failed to requalify for their current t levels.  If you go and look up Amway revenues for the last handful of years, you will see that revenues were flat or in decline, which means business was not growing.  

So what does this all mean   Simple, it means joining Amway makes it highly likely, nearly assured that you will have a net loss of income if you join Amway and participate in the system of tools and functions.  Also now with covid 19, I can only imagine that the ability to recruit down line or approach others to sell products is greatly hampered by state or local restrictions.  Good luck to you if you read this and join anyway.   

Talking A Good Game?

 Having blogged for a number of years now, I have observed that IBOs talk a good game about retailing, sponsoring and doing Amway business activities. They will tell you to set yourself up with 20 customers, sponsor 6 frontline, show a number of plans and set up certain follow ups with contacts, and doing other activities supposedly to build an Amway business. I find if humorous when these same IBOs start throwing insults or diverting the discussion when someone asks if they are actually making money. Of course, it would be understandable if a new IBO would admit they had not made a fortune as of yet but it seems that even that response is not forthcoming from IBOs.

It seems that the Amway business is simple enough. Buy some products, sell products and try to sponsor some downline in order to leverage your volume with your downlines. IBOs mistakenly believe that you can build it once correctly and that the income will flow into future generations. What goes unnoticed is that IBOs come and go with such a high frequency, that a business generating residual income would be like a sandcastle on the beach. You might build it nice and big, but the waves of attrition would quickly turn that sandcastle into nothing. The same would be true of an Amway business. The IBOs dropping out would wipe out your business unless you are constantly replacing the people who quit. IBOs like to talk about Amway sales and how the company is growing in sales, but the Amway sales have no relationship with making IBOs more profitable.

IBOs may also toss in comments about how they are nicer people or how they are improving their marriage because of the Amway business. I often wonder how that can be when functions and meetings take you away from your family and spouse. I suppose it could be because the uplines talk about people being nicer or tossing out lies about Amway and the AMOs saving marriages. I remember a WWDB diamond talking about how WWDB members had a 2% divorce rate while the rest of society has a 60% divorce rate. Ironically, that diamond's marriage ended in divorce. I believe this crap is still taught as a WWDB IBO who blogs, had mentioned this tidbit on his blog last year. I don't believe Amway IBOs or anyone else has a higher or lower rate of divorce than society, but it becomes an issue when uplines teach it and their downlines repeat it.

So, it would seem that IBOs talk a good game. They know what to say and how to act, but they're like poker players who are bluffing. If you call them on it, they are likely to fold in their hands because they don't have the goods. It is why many Amway discussions turn into an insult contest, when the IBO suddenly gets confronted with facts that are contrary to upline teaching. It's usually quite funny but I wonder if these folks question their upline or go on their merry way repeating uplines lies? It becomes apparent to everyone but the IBO when they are repeating crazy stuff taught by their upline. Good luck to anyone who tries to build this business against nearly insurmountable odds.

Evolved Teaching?

  One of the things that is clear, many Amway recruits are shown fancy cars and toys, along with luxurious vacations and trappings. This is a way to get prospects excited and interested in signing up for the Amway opportunity. Many sign up, and soon enough, the excitement eventually fades and they quit. Either that or the IBO sees monthly losses and no prospects of improvement and quits. Many do little or nothing. But what many people do not understand or realize is that there is a reason for this. Many do little or nothing, I suspect because the business is much harder to build than advertised.  Amway's name reputation is already a challenge and the uncompetitive pricing of products doesn't help.

Because Amway has a stigma in the US (and growing in other locations), finding prospects is a daunting task. Add in the high prices of Amway products and you have major challenges that IBOs simply cannot overcome. Most simply quit and fade away into society. Some, like myself were lied to and abused, with upline leaders (WWDB)who were never held accountable for their actions. Thus I blog so others may share my experiences and can decide if they wish to climb insurmountable challenges for a less than a fraction of a 1% chance of financial success.

What many leaders do is evolve their teachings. They start to teach their IBOs that the Amway opportunity may have made them nicer people, better fathers or husbands and other nice to hear stories because it covers up the fact that these IBOs are not making money. Sometimes I wonder how someone can be a better person by deceiving others about the business opportunity, or how you can be a better father or husband when Amway meetings become a priority over your family and friends. Or how you can be a nicer person and leave threatening messages on forums with those who disagree about Amway being a great business opportunity?

Rather than justifying your involvement or looking at side benefits, IBOs should be looking at their bottom line. If your Amway "Business" is not generating enough money to pay for your voicemail and other expenses and leaving you with a net profit, then what exactly is your upline teaching you that is worth the ongoing expense? If you are like most, you are told that Amway has little to no overhead and has little risk. Well, that becomes untrue after months pass by and you have spent hundreds if not thousands on support materials that do not deliver you a net profit. Additionally, your upline is making a nice income by selling you those support materials and advising you to buy more.

Are you new or a tenured IBO? Has your teaching from upline evolved away from making money as the bottom line? If so, what do you do next? I would run in the opposite direction.

At Least Amway Makes Me "Nicer"?

 Many IBOs "think" they have become nicer and better people as a result of their association with other Amway IBOs and because a part of the system they are with advises them to read self-help books. They are also taught that as a side benefit of the Amway business, that they are nicer people. Of course, many IBOs mistakenly think that they started a business not to make money, but to become "nicer". The entire premise is ridiculous and upline uses this approach to take the focus off the fact that IBOs are not making money. Thus, they will say Amway makes you a nice person, or Amway will save your marriage or some other baloney.   I don't really know of anyone who set out to make money in a business and decided that profits are not as important as "being nicer".  Again, in my opinion, this is just a distraction away from your bottom line, which is a net loss.

I certainly agree that some people can benefit from positive books and association with others, but for many, it is not a genuine "nicer" person, but simply a phony persona that is put on in order to recruit potential Amway downlines. That is how my former sponsor appeared to me. Because I had known him for a long time, the "nicer" looked as phony as phony can be. There are many examples of phony niceness that some IBOs profess. Even Amway's (former) biggest defender (David Steadson AKA IBOFightback) was called a "cyber bully" by an Amway corporate blogger and some others for making disparaging comments about those with opposing views. Others have resorted to calling people broke or losers simply because they did not agree that Amway was their savior. Is this an example of being a nicer person? Doesn't seem like it to me.

On this very blog, there are comments, I assume by Amway IBOs, that make implied, subtle threats and in some cases, direct threats against me and others. Some of these comments are not subtle at all. In fact, in my blogging experience, it is usually the IBOs and Amway defenders that resort to name calling. I suspect that is because the facts are on the side of the Amway critics. For example, it is a fact that most IBOs never make a dime, even if you don't count the ones who "do nothing". If you look at system IBOs, then the vast majority never make enough to pay their voicemail expenses, let alone anything else. The IBOs will say that they are paying for education like a college student. But college students can list their education on a resume even if they did not graduate. What does your Amway education do for your resume other than giving an employer a good laugh?

Even the coveted diamond level appears to be a facade, especially seeing diamonds quit, resign and simply walk away from the business without the lifelong passive income. A triple diamond's bankruptcy revealed some poor financial decisions and planning and his income as a triple diamond wasn't all that impressive considering the size of his business plus longevity in the business. This triple diamond made about half a million dollars from Amway. A good income, but not one that will finance paying for homes in cash, owning a fleet of sports cars, or a jet. The diamond lifestyle might be one of heavy debt if people try to portray a life of excessive wealth. Many Americans live in debt, why would diamonds be any different?

So IBOs, are you a nicer person? Is it evident by your words and actions? And how does that translate into making a profit from your Amway business?

No PV Watching TV?

 Often times, upline would give you advice, such as "there's no PV for watching TV". It makes sense when you hear it, but when you critically analyze the advice carefully, you can easily see that it's BS. The idea was that "broke people" with no direction in life waste their lives away watching TV and doing other activities that do not affect their financial futures while Amway IBOs are out trying to better themselves. On the surface, this sounds like completely sound advice, and it makes perfect sense if you're an IBO. Why spend time on your couch when you could be out trying to build your Amway business? Right? Broke people watch TV after all.

But wait a second, let's turn this around. There's no PV in attending a function. There's not PV in reading some self-help book or a Kiyosaki book. There's no PV in subscribing to standing orders or to communiKATE. There's no PV for attending any meetings and there's no PV most of the CORE steps. Technically, IBOs would be better served by concentrating on personal use and by actually selling products to customers. Only by increasing your PV does your volume get larger. Now sponsoring also has the possibility of increasing volume but most IBOs never sponsor a single downline, ever. So if you follow upline ad vice not to do things that don't get you PV, remind them that those activities include Amway related activities.

To compound the problem, the Amway activities such as standing orders and functions cost money and takes away resources from the IBO into products and activities that the upline profits from. Therefore, the upline is dishing out advice that is self-serving: "attend all functions and listen to audios every day". When you really think about it, what direct benefit was there for your business by doing the Amway related activities? Unless you move more volume, your activities are for nothing. It doesn't increase your business and your PV/volume. All you are doing is making your upline wealthy with loyal purchases of tools and functions. That is the Amway business. IBOs think they will be getting rich from Amway while the upline diamonds get rich by selling tools to their downline. To coin a phrase, "you live with the classes when you sell to the masses". That's what the diamonds are doing. Capitalizing on a captive audience whose loyal purchases makes nice profits.

This week, Joecool will not be posting anymore blog posts. I'm flying to the mainland to see an NFL game. I'm accomplishing things that I wanted to do, but now I have the time and resources to do, from saving and investing. Without Amway, I might add. It's been a great life, sans Amway. :)

Duplication?

 Many IBOs are taught that "duplication" or "copying" is the key to success in Amway. It is why so many IBOs are desperately trying to sponsor downline. It is why, in my opinion, so many IBOs will use any tactics to get people in front of the plan. I have heard of many zany tricks and deceptive practices by IBOs who are recruiting potential downline.  This has damaged the Amway name over the years to where you might get funny looks by mentioning Amway.

Unfortunately, even IBOs who are able to sponsor a few downline run into problems. That problem is retention. Downline come and go with great frequency. Many IBOs come and go because they simply do not make a net profit and they quickly lose interest in "doing the work" for so little reward.  Some might sign up so their sponsor will leave them alone.

I will agree that duplication can be a vital part of being successful in this business. But in real business, an owner will duplicate himeself/herself by hiring employees. The employees perform certain tasks in exchange for a wage or salary and allows the owner to accomplish certain tasks that he/she cannot do single handedly. If the employee is compensated fairly, they tend to stay, and in jobs where minimum wage is the standard, they often have retention problems and have to hire and train new workers with regularity. It is no different in the Amway opportunity. Those who make money, although the exception, will stay, and the vast majority of IBOs, who make little or nothing despite their efforts, will leave. It is that simple. If IBOs were actually making that extra $200 a month or maybe even an extra $150 net profit, I would guess that they would continue to be in business. But like a real business, when they do not make money, they fold up and do something else, which may be simply working harder at their jobs.

While duplication is a good concept on paper, it doesn't work because not enough IBOs make a net profit. There is no continued interest in staying in a business where they spend more on tools and products than they take in. Groups who focus on the prosumer or buy from yourself concept make it worse for downline as they have little or no sales to add to their bottom line.  No business can survive with the owner and possibly the employees account for most if not all of the sales.

If IBOs and prospects would see and understand this concept, they could avoid a lot of pain.

Transparency?

This is a repost of a story I penned some years ago.  It's a bit lengthy but a fun read:  

Apparently, Joecool has a new fan. A WWDB IBO who runs the blog called "Transparency Of A Dreamer". http://transparencyofadreamer.wordpress.com/2014/03/23/transparency-how-do-you-filter-online-information/

This blog is run by Cameron, who is apparently a WWDB IBO. I used to follow a blog called WWDB Expeditions Of Truth authored by Shaun Guthrie. Both apparently hail from Canada. What I find humorous is how Cameron uses the word "transparency" in his blog title. Cameron, like Shaun, does not allow comments on his blog. I find it odd how pro-Amway blogs often do not allow comments unless they are positive about Amway. What are they afraid of? Hmm.

Cameron says on his blog:

Dream Builder training and mentorship system while being “transparent” in my success’ but MOST IMPORTANTLY my non-success. As a dreamer I identify myself as wanting and desiring more for myself, my family, my friends and my associates. Thus – Transparency of a Dreamer.

When I chose the name of this blog I chose it because I felt that there was a lack of integrity and transparency in how information / experience was shared.

My question to Cameron is why doesn't he allow comments, or transparency on his own blog?

He openly criticizes me because he feels I have some hatred towards Amway and WWDB. That is not true. I don't hate anyone. My blog is about my experiences in Amway and WWDB and some of the bad practices that WWDB leaders employed. Based on my observations of Shaun Guthrie's blog, I can say some of the same practices I saw over ten years ago still happen now. Shaun's blog is now gone (because he quit??) but he spoke of getting out of debt (which is good) but he did so by selling his home and cashing out his 401K. He spoke of buying homes in cash, and abut a 2% divorce rate in Amway/WWDB which is a dicey claim at best. I often hear how Amway/WWDB has changed but here we have the same leaders teaching the same stuff. What exactly has changed? I might add that WWDB leaders in my day LIED and said nobody made a profit from tools. Now that the lie has been exposed, they admit profit is made on tools but none of the liars were ever held accountable.

Let's examine Cameron's business:

Business Level: Founders Belivers Pin almost 2 years straight + additional consecutive months to today’s date (Mar – Apr 2014 as of this post)
Highest PV Bonus Bracket: 9% BV over our organization + Retail / Personal Use Volume.
Personal Width: 1
Depth: 2 wide on one sponsored leg.

Cameron is around the 6 to 9% bonus bracket. With his premiere membership and assuming he attends functions, he is LOSING MONEY! 6-9% will pay you around $100 a month (gross) which will leave you at a loss when factoring in business expenses. That doesn't account for time spent in the endeavor. Cameron says he is not in debt, but he doesn't mention that he profits from Amway. Most likely because his job covers his Amway/WWDB losses.

For the record, I did as an IBO, witness WWDB leaders offer advice such as having your family skip a meal to buy another tape/cd, or quitting your job to attend a function, after all, you can just get another job. You can skip paying your mortgage for about 3 months before the mortgage company forecloses (so you can attend a WWDB function). Greg Duncan taught us how stupid it was to take out loans (can you say hypocrite). I wonder if Mr. Duncan paid off all of his loans yet? LOL Brad Wolgamott taught about the 2% divorce rate (can you say hypocrite?).

Cameron then tries to discredit me by linking to David Steadson's blog. (Steadson aka IBOFightback). Steadson has already been discredited as a liar and referred to as a a cyber bully by Beth Dornan, who ran an Amway corporate blog.

http://blogs.amway.com/amwayinsider/2008/01/15/cyber-bullies-not-welcome-here/

As those who frequent the Opportunity Zone know, our conversations here are governed by a philosophy we call "civil discourse."

Civil discourse means we agree to disagree, but not to be disagreeable. In other words, I accept your right to have an opinion that differs from my own and ask that you do the same. In a word, it means respect. Bullies aren't allowed.
I was disturbed to read that someone who has been critical of this business has been harassed and disparaging information about him posted by a cyber bully.

Steadson, aka IBOFightback is the ONLY ONE who wrote disparaging articles about Amway critics.

Cameron then criticizes the fact that I occasionally use profanity on my blog. I have and I allow some of it. But nobody gets a handful of dirt in their face without dishing it out first. I've been threatened and had IBO's slander and libel my name. That is why I use the pseudo name "Joecool", to protect my true identity.

Why does Amway and WWDB continue to receive criticism? It's not because of Joecool or any other Amway critic. Amway and WWDB receives criticism because of the actions and behaviors of their IBO's. People are still lied to and tricked into meetings. People still overstate the income and effort needed to build Amway. People give the best case scenario without informing prospects of the typical IBO's experiences. The internet is still loaded with legitimate complaints about Amway and WWDB and their only response is to attack the critic rather than fixing the problems that leads to the criticism.

Good luck Cameron, I know you've been reading this blog. You've been an IBO 3 years and you have one leg with a few more downline. A WWDB leader once said insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Were you shown a 2-5 year plan? Maybe it's time for you to sit down and come to grips with Amway and WWDB yourself. I truly hope you won't quit and take your blog down like all other WWDB IBO's I've encountered.

Building A Business?

 When I was an Amway IBO, many people would talk about "building a business". But many folks who spoke about building a business didn't know what that meant. I believe it is because they were taught that building a business meant listening to tapes or audios and attending functions. Or building a business might mean sponsoring others. In my segment of the Amway world, building a business pretty much meant recruiting and showing the plan. Apparently, I was mislead, and many others were as well.

Building a business, generally speaking means building a customer base. A business moves products and services for a profit. In groups that focus on buying from yourself or prosumer nonsense, generally will struggle because the revenue they generate in their business is coming from their own pockets. Or their jobs are actually supplying the money for their own bonuses. In this model, the only way to profit is to sponsor many downlines so the pyramidal compensation plan can work in your favor.

Many IBOs compare themselves to a franchise. Can you imagine a true franchise where your long-term success depended on your ability to open other franchises? What if you as the owner and your family accounted for the majority of the sales? Could this franchise survive? More than likely not. Yet this is exactly what many Amway IBOs do, and they mistakenly think they will be successful. The only reason why Amway IBOs are able to play out this model longer than a traditional franchise owner is because they do not have to rent office space or hire employees.

If an Amway IBO ran their business like a traditional business, the lack of retail sales to non-IBO customers would be immediately apparent when the first month's electric bill or lease payment arrived.

Building a business entails many things. These things may include advertising, marketing of products, and do not necessarily include any training. In its simplest form, the Amway business is about selling and using products, and getting others to do the same as you do. Why do IBOs think such extensive training (standing order and functions) is needed? I challenge IBOs to write up an actual business plan for their Amway business, including projected sales and expenses and see what you come up with. If you think I am just being negative, write up your Amway presentation and show it to a loan officer at a bank. See what they have to say. Seriously.

Bait And Switch?

  In my informed opinion, Amway is a huge bait and switch scam run by the diamonds. The crowd sees the diamonds as someone to be worshipped. They arrive to standing ovations when they appear to show the plan and/or to speak at a function. The diamonds speak of untold wealth beyond the reach of most people. They show slide shows of fabulous trips and events that they attend and possibly golf outings and other fun things that are associated with people who have money. The diamond often has some sports car or a nice sedan such as a Lexus or Mercedes. And all of this alleged wealth comes from Amway. Just join and get the secrets to wealth from the diamonds and you too will be living in fabulous wealth. 2-5 years, build it right and build it once is what I heard.

But it's a bait and switch scam. They show you wealth and speak of their large incomes (without verification of course) and people tend to believe what they are told. The diamonds claim to have the key to the secret of success. All you need to do is get plugged into their system and you are nearly assured of success. Right? Listen to those diamonds. They are the pinnacle of success and all you need to do it copy what they have done. So simple even a dog can become a platinum. All you need is 2-5 years, do it right and do it once and you're set for life.

So you subscribe to their system of voicemail, books, standing orders (audios/CDs), meetings and functions/seminars. In the teachings, the theme seems to be similar. Never quit, and the answer to most Amway problems are to consume more tools and functions. If you are struggling and losing money, the solution seems to be to invest more in tools and functions. It's like a struggling business spending more on overhead without simply trying to increase sales. This is why so many IBOs quit, because they struggle to make sales and/or to sponsor downline. Despite all of the teaching and tools and seminars, it is apparent that very few IBOs make any profit.

What people don't see is that the Amway business itself is just a shill for the real business. Amway IBOs unknowingly recruit prospects into Amway thinking they can make a fortune in Amway. In the meantime, the diamonds are raking in the dough by selling monthly subscriptions for voicemail, books, audios and meetings and seminars. Additionally, the diamonds put on a "major" function each quarter where they can make possibly hundreds of thousands of dollars in a single weekend. I believe some diamonds make way more income from the tools and functions than from Amway. A diamond is a lifetime achievement so someone could qualify diamond for 6 months, never qualify again, but still make a nice living from speaking honorariums and selling other tools. The tools business is the real business. The Amway business is like a "front" to conceal the real business, much like the Italian restaurant is a front for the mob. The restaurant is a legal business that helps conceal the illegal activity. And that my friends, is the Amway bait and switch scam.

The Key To Success = Lying?

  The first time I was prospected for Amway, I was in college. I actually didn't know much about Amway, but I had somehow formed a negative opinion of it. Needless to say, when I was invited to a beer bust and it turned instead to be an Amway meeting.  My impression of Amway wasn't that good already and being tricked into a meeting didn't help.  Some years later, I eventually did join because a close friend of mine had achieved direct distributor (now called platinum) and he had assured me that it could be done and that he would make sure that I would also achieve it. I did achieve a level just below platinum (4000 PV), but I quit for several reasons. First of all, I didn't make a net profit as the expenses for tools ate up my profits. Secondly, the more I progressed in the business, the more and more my upline wanted control of my life. For example, we were told that we should check upline before getting married, buying a car, or even having children, etc. I thought that was very strange and I eventually left the business for good.

But in the US at least, I believe Amway's name to be so battered that an IBO cannot sponsor downline and build a business without lies and deception. There are hordes of stories confirming testimony that lies and deceit are common in prospecting potential IBOs. This was extremely rampant when Amway changed their name to Quixtar. IBOs would deny the connection or IBOs would say they are with network 21 or WWDB and claim something ridiculous such as Amway simply being their supplier. The promotion of perfect water also brought on silly antics about a $50 case of water being capable of performing miracles. If the opportunity could stand on its own merits, then IBOs would not have to resort to such desperate measures which include lies and deception.

Even the Amway presentation if often filled with deception and lies. I remember seeing the presentation and they said shopping through Amway; an IBO would save 30% over local retailers. When I actually saw the catalogs, I wondered where are the savings?? An open-minded price comparison will easily show that Amway products are not cheaper than a retailer like Wal-Mart. It's not possible when you consider that Amway's bonuses must be a part of their product price.

The 6-4-2 plan or similar variations are made to sound easy, and the presenter talked about lifelong residual willable income, which I also find to be deceptive if not an outright lie. The presenter never mentions that only about 1 in 400 ever reach the platinum level, where allegedly you begin to break even as an IBO if you are consuming training and tools.

But can Amway be successfully promoted without lies and deception? It is my opinion that an IBO has no chance of building a business by being completely upfront and honest about Amway and about being an IBO. Even with lies and deceit, many IBOs still cannot get people to see the plan or to buy products. It is my opinion that overall, very little Amway products are sold to non-IBOs. So if you cannot sell products and you cannot get people to see the plan, you cannot build a business and if you are purchasing tools, you are simply digging yourself a financial hole that will only grow larger as time passes. The cost of 100 PV (about $300) is already more than what most families and/or singles spend in a month on household products. This means that most people simply cannot sustain themselves in the business and it explains why most IBOs drop out in the first year.

It is why lies and/or deception are needed for an IBO to have a chance at promoting and building an Amway business. Because the truth is not pretty and more than likely, will not work effectively for building an Amway business.

"Partner Stores"?

 I wanted to write this post because I had a debate with an (apparent) Amway IBO who is bragging about Amway partner stores. The tag line is Amway certainly does their due diligence, as well as partner stores as partner stores would not want to associate with Amway if they were a scam, etc. After reading this post, you will see that "partner" stores would be insane not to partner with Amway. Before going into that, maybe someone can explain what due diligence was put into partnering with Worldcom (formerly MCI) and Enron, for selling energy products and services. Surely all those high-priced lawyers must have known about these epic failures (scams)?

Now, when an Amway IBO refers to a partner store, we are talking about a one-way road. What I mean is that Amway sells products for these partner stores, but the partner stores don't sell any Amway products and have nothing to do with Amway other than a business agreement (apparently) to allow Amway IBOs to act as commission only salespeople for these partner stores. Amway IBOs take on all the time and personal expenses of moving partner store products, often at noncompetitive prices, and get a small commission, but only if they meet a minimum quota (100 pv), which is roughly $300 USD, but could be more because partner stores PV amounts are typically quite small.

Imagine that a partner store basically has the entire Amway sales force potentially selling their products and the partner store can charge whatever they want. The Amway IBOs are often taught to buy from Amway and the catalogs, so the entire sales force often becomes loyal customers as well. And to make the deal even sweeter, the partner stores pay nothing unless the Amway IBO sells at least $300 worth of products, although partner store and Amway products can be commingled. In my way of thinking, it's a no brainer for partner stores to hook up with Amway. They have no risk and potentially a lot of addition sales. High upside and no downside.  If there's a big downside, I certainly don't see it.

And the cherry on the sundae for Amway and the partner stores is that Amway IBOs will also recruit and train other Amway and partner store commission only salespeople at their own time and expense. Amway and partner stores can't possibly lose!! I almost want to go and create Joecool's widgets and become an Amway partner store myself. If Amway people sell my $100 Joecool widgets that cost me $5 to make, I rake in huge profits and the most commission I would pay is about 25%. It's a great deal because Joecool has zero risk. I only pay if the product gets sold. and I don't pay if products don't move. I might even be able to sell Amway IBOs my catalog so they can sell my stuff. It's heads I win and tales they lose for me.

So, if you ever hear about and Amway IBO bragging about how Amway partner stores like Nike, Barnes and Noble or whatever big-name company might "partner" with Amway, you can laugh to yourself and to use Amway's own catch phrase: "Now you know".

Sustainability?

 One of the key selling points of the Amway business is for people to do the work once and then reap financial benefits for life. Thus, the term lifelong residual income or passive income. But that simply does not happen for the vast majority of IBOs. The reason why most IBOs do not have a sustainable business is because their business is not based on sales to genuine customers with a genuine need. Most IBOs themselves will not buy Amway products once their affiliation to Amway is over. Many IBOs are willing to pay the "premium" prices while they believe Amway will make them rich, but when the reality sets in that they are not making money, somehow their loyalty to Amway products goes out the window.

If you are an IBO doing your 100 PV monthly, then your only way to increase volume is to sponsor downline in hopes that they will also do their 100 PV as shown in the plan. And even if you are somehow able to accomplish this and sponsor a bunch of people as shown in the plan, chances are that many IBOs will "do nothing" and of the remaining, some will move 100 PV, but they will likely quit in one year or less. The attrition and failures in Amway make it nearly impossible to build and sustain a group. Even diamonds are working hard to help their downline keep up the volume or they too, will fall out of qualification. Has anyone actually heard of a diamond who walked away from Amway and is collecting large residual checks while doing nothing? IBOs often talk about it but not a single one can name one of these individuals.

In many or possible most cases, IBOs are only selling the Amway opportunity and not Amway products. They sell the possibility or hope that they will build a business, walk away and collect untold wealth for the rest of their lives. It isn't going to happen. Say for example, you sold 100 PV monthly on a consistent basis to customers. These customers will automatically go online and make purchases when they run out of their products. If you are lucky, they will also refer friends to make purchases. But most IBOs do not sell products, they are selling the opportunity. Thus, once the business building stops, so goes the product purchases in most cases.

That brings up the next point about why an Amway business is not sustainable for most. The products cost more than most other retailers. That will limit the potential for customers and referrals. Amway defenders like to cite quality issues, but most customers who shop online aren't familiar with Amway products and have no way to know whether Amway has quality products or not. That leaves them to decide based on prices. And Amway in general, costs much more than Walmart for the same or similar products. A tough sell indeed and for these reasons, I find the Amway business to be unsustainable. There is no other conclusion that can be made.

Financial Freedom?

 Financial Freedom! That was one of the major battle cries when I was recruited for the Amway business. You gain control of time and money by creating residual or passive income. That is true financial freedom. You wake up at noon, no job, and just do whatever you please, whenever you please. I remember the speaker saying that broke/unemployed people also had freedom, but it was different because they were broke and could not afford to go golfing or do other activities that required money on a regular basis. I wonder sometimes how often the diamonds enjoy such fun and frivolity? My upline diamond always seemed to be working.

I am assuming that this is still the case for many IBOs. Of course, upline leaders may toss in a disclaimer that you don't get rich quick as an IBO, but the pitch apparently still contains the financial freedom and residual income theme, based on my experiences with IBOs. IBOs still think they will be rich. Also, 2-5 years sounds like "get rich quick" to me. Diamonds are likely cautious to avoid get rich quick talk because prospects may be way about those kinds of claims.

But hey, financial freedom would be a great thing, don't get me wrong. Who wouldn't want to be 35 years old with enough cash to never have to work again? I mean I could spend some time imagining how fun that would be. It would also be fun to imagine what you would do with all the cash if you hit the powerball lottery as well. But for the starry eyed IBOs, I simply have a few questions for you to ponder. A few realistic questions that you should be asking yourself. The answers to these questions will tell you a lot.

1. Who in your group or upline truly has achieved financial freedom? Have you seen their financials or simply a display of wealth such as slide shows of mansions and fancy cars? Mansions and fancy cars could just be a massive pile of debt. Not too long ago, there apparently were diamonds who had their homes foreclosed, and a triple diamond who was in chapter 7 bankruptcy proceedings. Find out if anyone in your group/upline has actually achieved the success that they are using to recruit you. Also, if they are financially free, why do they work at function after function? Traveling and speaking might not be a traditional job, but it is still work, nonetheless.

2. Even if you find someone who is retired and golfing everyday because of Amway residual income, ask yourself what the likelihood is that you will be able to achieve the same results. If diamonds are still working, what chance do you have of success if you are new or inexperienced in Amway, and have few or no downline. More than likely, your chance of winning the lottery will be greater than your chance of achieving a significant residual income from your Amway business. Also, I don't know of any Amway retirees who built their business once and walked away with any significant residual income from Amway. Do you?

Joecool Headed For Seattle?

 I'll be out of town for about a week.  I'm going to Seattle this weekend to attend a certain football game.  All at my own expense, no Amway residual income.  LOL.  I'll be back posting early next week.  

In the meantime, I have this blog post called "Is Amway A Scam"?

The short answer is no. Amway the company is not considered a scam.  However, IBOs powered by Amway and/or leaders from groups connected to Amway such as WWDB, BWW, or Network 21 can end up scamming people by using the Amway opportunity as a front. They'll promote Amway as a way to earn a lifestyle of the rich and famous. They may promote Amway as a means to earn lifelong financial security. The catch will always be that you need to follow their system.  The system has been referred to as a scam by many over the years as it is often the reason why 

The system normally consists of cds, voicemail, standing orders, books, functions and seminars. Some of this technology is outdated, but likely has not changed in many years because uplines profit from the sale of these "tools". It's basically a bait and switch. They lure you in with the hopes and dreams of a fabulous life and uncountable amounts of cash rolling in. They then sell you the secrets of gaining these trappings. Sadly, only a tiny fraction of 1% will ever see any kind of significant success. And out of those who do enjoy some significant success, many of these people find out that Amway success may not be sustainable.

The truly horrifying result of all this is that probably 99% or more people who have dreams of a better life and financial security will actually end up with a net loss of money and time that they could have used more productively. In my IBO days, I saw some crossline lose their homes or enter bankruptcy following the advice of their trusted upline mentors. It almost always had something to do with skipping out on financial obligations in order to buy more tools or to attend a major function. The secrets of a diamond lifestyle is apparently to sell standing orders, functions, voicemail, but not necessarily selling Amway products, at least for the higher ups.  

If you look at the earnings of platinums and diamonds, you will easily see that those kinds of incomes cannot sustain million dollar lifestyles, especially when you factor in business expenses such as traveling (first class?) and hotel stays. If diamonds fly first class everywhere they go, that's a lot of cash to run their businesses.

So, is Amway a scam? No, Amway the company is not a scam, but Amway IBOs and Amway IBO leaders who run functions can certainly scam you. Beware!

 

Most Do Nothing?

 I saw some recent discussion and some people were debating the average income of Amway IBOs and how $202 a month (average IBO income) as reported by Amway is a lot considering most IBOs do little or nothing. Well, that $202 a month average income survey many years old. Somewhat laughable when Amway defenders like to hang their hats on the possibility that Amway critics claims are outdated. Maybe Amway defenders should complain that Amway's own information is old and outdated. I wonder what updated numbers would reveal?  An even smaller average income?   

Also, what many people are not aware of is that the average income figure as published by Amway, excluded IBOs who did nothing. It only counted "active" IBOs, although Amway's definition of active can leave you scratching your head. Amway describes active as someone who attended a meeting or attempted to sell products. However, we know that unless you actually sell something, you won't make anything and certainly attending a meeting takes money away from you, and is not a way to earn money in Amway. Let me also add that Amway diamonds are also a part of the average income so the "average" is very likely inflated by the six-figure income of the diamonds.

To me, the biggest question is why do so many IBOs get interested enough to sign up and then do nothing? It is my informed opinion that there are several reasons why this happens. I believe that some IBOs are such pests, that their prospects sign up just to get their IBO sponsor to leave them alone. While it may not be common, I believe it happens. Also, I believe some IBOs go into shock when they see the prices of some products. This will cause newbies to realize that the business is nearly impossible before they even get started. Or, a new IBO will go and talk to family and friends about Amway and will get shot down because in North America, just about everyone seemingly had, or knows someone who's had a bad experience in Amway. Sadly, the experience may not be a result of Amway the corporation, but of unethical IBOs who may lie, cheat or trick people into attending meetings. Some IBOs actually get started but soon realize that that Amway opportunity along with the systems such as N21, WWDB or BWW, simply becomes a money pit with the tools and system expenses exceed the monthly Amway income. A few IBOs will bite hard and stay dedicated for a few years or more. Many of these IBOs end up reporting losses that may exceed tens of thousands of dollars.

Sadly, many IBOs and prospects are recruited by family and friends. Thus, even if they quit or have a very bad experience, they just quit and disappear. Folks generally will not file complaints with Amway or the Better Business Bureau (BBB). So IBOs, even if you did little or nothing in Amway, if you got ripped off or treated unethically, you may want to consider filing a formal complaint with Amway or with the BBB. So why do so many IBOs do little or nothing? I believe the answer is crystal clear. Most IBOs do little or nothing because it's not worth the effort for most as very few IBOs will ever attain any kind of significant income. In fact, doing nothing is likely to get you a more favorable result than someone who attends the functions or who subscribes to standing order because doing nothing is cheaper than being an IBO and paying for tools and functions.

The Real Scam?

 A lot of people come and go in Amway, but many of those who come and go don't even notice the scam. They get sold on what they believe is a business opportunity that they can makesome money at, or at the very least save some money on products that they would normally buy anyway. If they do it right, they can possibly make some "real" money and with some had work, you can build it right and have the option one day of walking away from Amway and living off ongoing residual income from Amway. It sounds reasonable and therein lies the scam.

For years, I have challenged people to name 2-3 people, aside from the Amway owners, who joined, built the business "right" and was able to walk away and retire with ongoing residual income, enough to be financially free forever. Not a single person has been able to name and confirm that even a single person has done this. I believe it's all a lie and part of the scam. Amway's distributor force turns over about 50% each year. How can you build a residual income empire when half of your downline quits each year? I believe Amway diamonds trade their 9-5 jobs for the night shift. They work at night and into the morning hours because they are working to replace people who quit and to support downline platinums who might struggle or fail to re-qualify for that level. If upline says they are working for the love of their downline, I call BS on that. If walking away and enjoying life was an option, why hasn't anyone chosen it?

Now you could argue that a diamond's "work" isn't that bad and they aren't reporting to a boss. And that would be true, but I imagine the pressure of churning people in and out to keep qualifying can be stressful in itself. If you live on an island like me, you can eventually have trouble finding new people to work with. In 1997 or so, there were a bunch of diamonds in Hawaii and they all moved to the mainland. Now I"m not sure why but my upline diamond was Harimoto, who loved the ocean and the beaches. Yet he moved to Washington state. I believe they needed new grounds to mine, just like gold miners.

The next part of the scam is how IBOs will tell you about Amway's generous money back guarantee. 100% they'll tell you. What they don't tell you is that the guarantee is only on some of the products and the sign up fee. The cds, books, voicemail and functions are not sold or run by Amway. And these expenses can be very significnt over a period of time. IBOs and prospects need to know this. You can lose thousands and get back pennies on the dollar asking for a refund on the sign up fee and perhaps a few products. Another piece of the scam.

Also, IBOs and prospects are often shown only the very best case scenario (such as going diamond) but not told that your chance of being struck by lightning is much higher than your chance of going diamond, even though going diamond is not a random event. A real life and likely scenario is getting in and trying hard for a while, and then quitting with some business losses. At least if you know this and still try anyway, you will have done so with full disclosure.

Lastly, it's insidious in my opinion, for upline to tell you to trust them and to do as they say, and then turn around and tell IBOs that failure is their responsibility. That they didn't work hard enough or do thing just right. That sure isn't what they are preaching when recruiting you into the business. They are saying how sharp you are and how you're likely to tear up the business. But it's just another facet of the scam. I've outlined the parts of the opportunity that I believe are scams, but I'm sure it's not limited to my point of view.

Good luck if you read this and join anyway.

Amway Creates Millionaires?

 I keep hearing from some IBOs that they belive that Amway has created more millionaires than any other company in the US. I call BS on that claim. I am not saying that Amway hasn't created any millionaires, obviously, the Amway owners are worth billions of dollars. But what the IBOs are apparently implying is that the diamonds are millionaires. I'm sure there are some diamonds who indeed are millionires, especially if they are tenured diamonds, in particular the double diamonds and higher. But conversely, I believe that many high level diamonds are not millionaires. I believe it is just as common for a diamond to be in debt as it is for a diamond to be living large. I also believe that many diamonds did not accumulate their alleged wealth exclusively from Amway.

The reason why this is an issue is because these big pins will stand on stage and show off excessive wealth and imply that it is their Amway income that pays for these mansions, sports cars, and in some cases, jets. In the US, I attended a function called "Dream Nite" where these kinds of trapping are displayed, to the tune of the song "I wanna be rich". The diamonds would say that you can have what they have, if only you will do what they advise. These functions still go on today and I believe it is now called Winter Conference.

Stanley and Danko's book, "The Millionaire Next Door"
http://www.personalfinanceplaybook.com/2009/08/the-millionaire-next-door/

This book makes some very interesting points which I believe applies to Amway diamonds. I will outline the significant ones and I will comment below:

**Predictably, the data shows that most people who you believe to be very rich are not.

**High net worth individuals, statistically, tend to be people that live within their means. They don’t spend a lot of money. They don’t waste money. They tend to be pretty frugal people.

**The authors point out that most of the richest people you know aren’t driving expensive luxury automobiles. That’s what the people who want everyone to think they’re rich drive.

Joe's commentary. The book does say that about 1/3 of millionaires acquired their wealth thru a J-O-B, plus they saved and invested.  They did mention that many millionaires were also business owners, such as a pest control company, etc. But based on the points made by the book above, I can see where it is likely that diamonds portray a wealthy lifestyle as a recruitment tactic, when the reality is they may be living very middle class lifestyles off stage, or may even be in debt. I have seen evidence of diamonds having their homes foreclosed and being in debt (Ruth Carter's book: Amway: Behind the Smoke and Mirrors).  Around 2009 or 2010, there was also a report that a prominent WWDB Triple Diamond filed for chapter 7 bankruptcy. The report indicated that he could not make his mortgages, or something to that tune. Odd, because when I was in WWDB, some of the upline leaders said diamonds paid cash for everything because paying interest to the bank wasn't very smart.  So much for the truth and integrity of upline leaders.

My question is why IBOs continue to make up these claims? Try googling millionaire or Amway millionaire. There is nothing to indicate that Amway was responsible for creating the "most millionaires" of any US company. If this were true, wouldn't Amway state it on their website? If someone finds any veracity about this claim, inform me and I will post it.  More likely tech giants like Microsoft or Nvidia created the most millionaires.   If not, they certainly created more millionaires than Amway.  Not to mention income from tools and functions are a significant portion of a diamond's income and tools and functions are not Amway.  Food for thought. 

Lying To Succeed?

 The first time I was prospected for Amway, I was in college. I actually didn't know much about Amway but I had somehow formed a negative opinion of it. Needless to say, when I was invited to a beer bust and it turned instead to be an Amway meeting, my impression of Amway wasn't that good. Some years later, I eventually did join because a close friend of mine had achieved direct distributor (now called platinum) and he had assured me that it could be done and that he would make sure that I would also achieve it. I did achieve a level just below platinum (4000 PV), but I quit for several reasons. First of all, I didn't make a net profit as the expenses for tools ate up my profits. Secondly, the more I progressed in the business, the more and more my upline wanted control of my life. For example, we were told that we should check upline before getting married, buying a car, or even having children, etc. I thought that was very strange and I eventually left the business for good.

But in the US at least, I believe Amway's name to be so battered that an IBO cannot sponsor downline and build a business without lies and deception. There are hordes of stories confirming testimony that lies and deceit are common in prospecting potential IBOs. This was extremely rampant when Amway changed their name to Quixtar. IBOs would deny the connection or IBOs would say they are with network 21 or WWDB and claim something ridiculous such as Amway simply being their supplier. The promotion of perfect water also brought on silly antics about a $50 case of water being capable of performing miracles. If the opportunity could stand on its own merits, then IBOs would not have to resort to such desperate measures which include lies and deception.

Even the Amway presentation if often filled with deception and lies. I remember seeing the presentation and they said shopping through Amway, an IBO would save 30% over local retailers. When I actually saw the catalogs, I wondered where are the savings?? An open-minded price comparison will easily show that Amway products are not cheaper than a retailer like WalMart. It's not possible when you consider that Amway's bonuses must be a part of their product price.

The 6-4-2 plan or similar variations are made to sound easy, and the presenter talked about lifelong residual willable income, which I also find to be deceptive if not an outright lie. The presenter never mentions that only about 1 in 400 ever reach the platinum level, where allegedly you begin to break even as an IBO if you are consuming training and tools.

But can Amway be successfully promoted without lies and deception? It is my opinion that an IBO has no chance of building a business by being completely upfront and honest about Amway and about being an IBO. Even with lies and deceit, many IBOs still cannot get people to see the plan or to buy products. It is my opinion that overall, very little Amway products are sold to non IBOs. So if you cannot sell products and you cannot get people to see the plan, you cannot build a business and if you are purchasing tools, you are simply digging yourself a financial hole that will only grow larger as time passes. The cost of 100 PV (about $300) is already more than what most families and/or singles spend in a month on household products. This means that most people simply cannot sustain themselves in the business and it explains why most IBOs drop out in the first year.

It is why lies and/or deception are needed for an IBO to have a chance at promoting and building an Amway business. Because the truth is not pretty and more than likely, will not work for building an Amway business.

Your Best Interest?

 Part of what Joecool perceives as the problem with the Amway opportunity is the utter lack of accountability of some upline leaders. They may tell you to trust them, to submit to them and simply copy or duplicate what they have done, and they imply that you will get the same results. Possibly millions of downlines over the years have put in blood sweat and tears into the business only to suffer massive losses following the system. Upline will take credit for meager success but place the blame on the downline when success is not there. Upline will claim that they either did not try hard enough, were not teachable enough, or they didn't put in enough time and effort. Despite a shockingly low success rate of system IBOs, nobody seems to fault the system as being flawed. And nobody seems to question whether upline is at fault. I believe it's obvious that the system and the upline advice is severely flawed.

In my observations, I would say that many financial systems are similar. Whether it be BWW, N21, WWDB, real estate gurus or other systems, the success rate is extremely low. Many systems that advertise on television will have a disclaimer that a success testimony is a rare or unique experience. I believe it is similar to the systems in Amway. Dedication or continued spending on the system is not the problem. The problem is often the system itself. It can work for some exceptional people. These people were likely to succeed in other venues anyway. The problem is that is does not work for the majority of people. People who succeed in Amway likely succeed in spite of the system and not because of it.

The bigger problem is that for many years, some uplines have lived high on the hog off of the dedicated tool purchases of their downline. All the while, questionable or bad advice was given to the faithful downline. Advice such as quitting a job to attend a function, skipping financial obligations such as the rent or electric bills to buy more tools. One upline even said your family can skip a meal because the standing order may contain the one thing you needed to hear to make your business grow. I have personally seen couples lose their homes and go bankrupt because they followed upline advice. Upline to "has their best interest at heart". Granted, the couple has some culpability in these decisions, but uplines who give this advice seem to get a pass.

Where is the accountability? Some of these uplines who give and gave bad advice, are still active today, and some are still giving bad advice to their downlines. Advice that profits upline and drains downline. Even with valid complaints, it appears that many uplines avoid any accountability. For some, perhaps there is poetic justice, such as diamonds having their homes foreclosed. But as many uplines have nobody to hold them accountable, do you really want to do business with these folks? Would you invest your retirement money with a broker who could not be held accountable? Would you have your car repaired by a shop whose mechanics could not be held accountable? I believe the answer is not to these questions, yet many people are asked to trust and follow the advice of an upline who is not held accountable for their advice.

The system is credited for the few successes that are visible, but the individual is held accountable for any shortcomings or failures. IBOs, I encourage you to hold your upline leaders accountable for the advice they give you. If they won't answer tough questions or take responsibility, then one should wonder why the upline should be given your trust.

Amway Failure?

Part of what Joecool perceives as the problem with the Amway opportunity is the utter lack of accountability of some upline leaders. They may tell you to trust them, to submit to them and simply copy or duplicate what they have done, and they imply that you will get the same results. Possibly millions of downlines over the years have put in blood sweat and tears into the business only to suffer massive losses following the system. Upline will take credit for meager success, but place the blame on the downline when success is not there. Upline will claim that they either did not try hard enough, were not teachable enough, or they didn't put in enough time and effort. Despite a shockingly low success rate of system IBOs, nobody seems to fault the system as being flawed. And nobody seems to question whether upline is at fault. I believe it's obvious that the system and the upline advice is severely flawed.

In my observations, I would say that many financial systems are similar. Whether it be BWW, N21, WWDB, real estate gurus or other systems, the success rate is extremely low. Many systems that advertise on television will have a disclaimer that a success testimony is a rare or unique experience. I believe it is similar to the systems in Amway. Dedication or continued spending on the system is not the problem. The problem is often the system itself. It can work for some exceptional people. These people were likely to succeed in other venues anyway. The problem is that is does not work for the majority of people. People who succeed in Amway likely succeed in spite of the system and not because of it.

The bigger problem, is that for many many years, some uplines have lived high on the hog off of the dedicated tool purchases of their downline. All the while, quesitonable or bad advice was given to the faithful downline. Advice such as quitting a job to attend a function, skipping financial obligations such as the rent or electric bills to buy more tools. One upline even said your family can skip a meal because the standing order may contain the one thing you needed to hear to make your business grow. I have personally seen couples lose their homes and go bankrupt because they followed upline advice. Upline to "has their best interest at heart". Granted, the couple has some culpability in these decisions, but uplines who give this advice seem to get a pass.

Where is the accountability? Some of these uplines who give and gave bad advice, are still active today, and some are still giving bad advice to their downlines. Advice that profits upline and drains downline. Even with valid complaints, it appears that many uplines avoid any accountability. For some, perhaps there is poetic justice, such as diamonds having their homes foreclosed. But as many uplines have nobody to hold them accountable, do you really want to do business with these folks? Would you invest your retirement money with a broker who could not be held accountable? Would you have your car repaired by a shop whose mechanics could not be held accountable? I believe the answer is not to these questions, yet many people are asked to trust and follow the advice of an upline who is not held accountable for their advice.

The system is credited for the few successes that are visible, but the individual is held accountable for any shortcomings or failures. IBOs, I encourage you to hold your upline leaders accountable for the advice they give you. If they won't answer tough questions or take responsibility, then one should wonder why the upline should be given your trust.

Millionaire Mentality?

 A comment left by an anonymous site visitor:

"I love Amway. I just don't understand why people have to be negative about it. I don't hurt or steal from anyone yet I make money. I'm not a millionaire as of yet but working towards that goal. It's called "millionaire mentality". Joecool you will never succeed with penny mentality."

Joecool's commentary:

Most diamonds do not have a millionaire mentality. If you see how they spend money and how they flaunt excessive wealth, I see people who could win the power ball lottery and wind up broke. They might earn a nice income (even if it may come by lying and deceiving), but they spend it all, and possibly more by portraying the diamond lifestyle. In my opinion, the diamond lifestyle as portrayed in functions such as "dream night" are not sustainable For this reason, we are now seeing evidence of this such as a triple diamond who participated in chapter 7 bankruptcy proceedings, diamonds losing homes to foreclosures. We are seeing diamonds selling their mansions. Sure, they might be downsizing or liquidating their assets, but if these homes have been paid in cash as they claim, why sell them in a bad real estate market? Why not wait a few years?

In the past, I have posted some articles showing the traits and characteristics of millionaires. Many of these articles cite saving, investing, and living below your means. Many wealthy people drive regular everyday cars and live in the suburbs. They don't commonly have porsches, and jaguars. And for the record, the average diamond income, as reported by Amway, isn't all that much when you factor in business expenses and taxes. So why do diamonds try to show off wealth?

I believe diamonds show off wealth because it is a way to attract recruits. Because the Amway opportunity has a high turnover rate, nobody can reasonably "walk away" from their business and have cash rolling in for long. Attrition would eat away your business in a matter of days or weeks. It is why I believe diamonds do not walk away from their businesses, because they can't afford to. The business requires constant attention or it will crumble faster than stake cookies.

Most IBOs are simply fooled into thinking they are developing into having a millionaire mentality. An honest question for IBOs. How do you even know if your upline diamond is a millionaire? Anyone, even a broke guy can wear a nice suit and show off pictures of mansions and sports cars. For that matter, how do you know if your upline diamond is currently qualified as a diamond? Amway doesn't release that information except for new pins.

In my opinion, diamond's displays of excessive wealth and luxury portrays something, but it's not the millionaire mentality.