Funny Quotes?

 "Strictly speaking, all make money, regardless. Zero is a real quantity. So, making zero money is like making zero money for it is measurable. If zero were irrelevant, why does the decimal system make use of this quantity? Just as the digit one has its virtues so does zero. Hopefully though, you are looking at more than zero if you like to play with numbers. If you don't, zero is a perfect, neutral choice. But don't complain about it to others! It's your choice!"

"Plus people get annoyed because the Amway people they know try to recruit them and sell them things, taking advantage of personal relationships to build their business."

"just about anything they can peddle out the door to the sellers who purchase it at inflated prices who then make money when the people under them sell the junk to somebody else who has been swindled with the "dream" of SCAMway. It is a pyramid scheme but they get around that with a few legal manuvers. They hold these giant pay your own way in rallies that consist of a bunch of oversexed hair sprayed bozo's manipulating people with motivational speeches."

" So he comes over and, you guessed it, tried to sell us on amway, both buying the products and becoming one of his sales "associates". We pretty much asked him to leave as politely as we could. Yes, this really happened and yes, we complained to the school. Amway people are some of the most brainwashed cultish people I have ever talked to. Right up there with boshbots"

"Another guy saying the economy and stock market were going to collapse and our only hope for the future is Amway since 401Ks and IRAs will all become worthless. Most of the tapes were full of religious right bilge too. I dropped out after finding out how much money the DeVos family donates to Repugs."

"While all you broke losers are going to work I will be sleeping in. I will make sure that I hire you to clean my toliets. And don't worry I will make sure that you get good benefits"

"The thing is, is that the higher-ups don't make their money on selling products, they make their money on selling audio tapes to the newbies, and intermediates. You know, the kind that supposedly will help you "sell better" ect... Anywho, that's my experience. They're all really just creepy."

"Early 90s. Friend of mine keeps hinting about his new "business," and how I need to "get on board." He is very coy and will not tell me the name of the company. Wife and I spend next two hours telling him, "This sounds just like that Amway crap," proceed to tell him every horror story we know about Amway, and essentially grind the Amway name into the ground. He leaves and I run into his brother a few days later. His bro asks me, "So, has my brother tried to sell you that soap stuff?" "Soap stuff?", I ask. "Yeah. He's selling that Amway crap." Never heard a peep from my friend about his new "business" again."

"Just admit that you didn't have the 'balls ' to build this business.
I going to be retiring in the next 6 mths making $5000 a mth. So eat that crybabies!"

"Yes, I am! My first cheque was $ 7.85 and my second cheque in going to be more. Why? Leverage! I just signed up my first business partner as part of my up until now, a one man team. Besides, he has someone who wants to sign up too. That's exciting news! I change some of my buying habits and I help others build business by teaching them how to do the same."

"For your information buddy, my last check was $ 15.66. That is more than eight, don't you think? So yeah, you can pass by $ 15.66 too on your way to financial freedom for you are not stuck at $ 15.66 just because that's the top money one can possibly ever make!"

Join Amway?

 Many people see the Amway plan and get unrealistic dreams of attaining incredible material wealth and retiring in a few years. I find it strange that nobody has been able to point out anyone who actually got in, worked a few years and then walked away from the business and is now enjoying buckets of cash rolling in while they spend their days on exotic beaches sipping mai tais. The more likely scenario will be debt, higher credit card bills, and boxes of unused cds and other various products. Can anyone really dispute this? It seems to be a pretty common claim among former Amway IBOs.

So why would someone joining the business become annoying? It's because to the average person, it becomes clear that to achieve this, you need to find "six" people. Thus to find six people, you need to make contacts to show the plan. Cold contacts of people on the street would be unlikely, even for the boldest of people, so new IBOs start looking at people they know. They start with people they are familiar with, or family and friends. They may also think their family and friends will want to get rich with them. And that's when you friends and family begin to get annoyed when you pepper them with Amway related BS.

Sadly, for most new and enthusiastic IBOs, they will find that they are shunned by family and friends. Over the years, IBOs have done too much damage to Amway's reputation and overcoming this challenge is too much for the rank-and-file IBOs. They will hear stories on failures and opinions that Amway is a pyramid and/or a scam. Of course, IBOs will have "canned" answers to respond to from their upline. One of the humorous ones is that Amway is praised by the BBB or the FTC and is the shining example of an MLM. To those familiar with this line of reasoning, it can become side splitting humorous. Sure, the diamond may ask the rank and file to use his credibility to be able to recruit downline but, in the end, the results are generally futile.

At first, the family and friends may humor the new IBO, but relentless persistence can eventually turn ugly. This is where uplines will teach the new IBOs to avoid "negative" and to shun these family and friends. This is why some people charge the Amway leaders with being cult - like. It's at about this point where IBOs might realize that Amway products are costly and try to sell off some of them to reduce their own costs. Often times, sympathetic family and friends might make a token purchase to show support. but that can get old in a hurry also. Most IBOs will eventually quit and make amends with family and friends, but some lose friendships for good.

To information seekers and new IBOs, hopefully this message is food for thought....

False Hope?

 One of the "false hope" things my upline used to tell our group was that everyone was going to succeed. That although things are tough, one day we will all be at diamond club together looking back at the struggles and laughing. Well, nothing could be further from the truth. One of the things that Amway promoters like to state is that "anyone" can succeed", but in the same line of reasoning, I could also say that "anyone" can win the lottery. The same concept can apply to not "everyone" can succeed in Amway and not "everyone" can win the lottery. Amway is not a game of chance like the lottery, but this still applies, which ironically weakens the pro Amway argument.

Using the term "anyone can succeed" is simply a statement that gives people hope. It appears that Amway promoters love to use the psychology of giving people hope as a means of recruiting and retaining IBOs. Hope is what keeps people motivated. The problem with the Amway opportunity, is that it is false hope. It is very easy to see that in most groups, the majority of downline IBOs will lose money. The majority of active IBOs, if they receive a bonus, will get only about $10 a month from Amway. If they use voicemail, or subscribe to standing order, they are already at a net loss for the month. Never mind the open meetings, major functions and other expenses associated with the Amway business on an ongoing basis.

I believe it is hope that makes gambling popular. One pull on a slot machine handle can change your life. Many IBOs believe that one good run of business can change their lives. Unfortunately, the Amway business has not appeared to produce much fruit in North America. It seems that any new success is simply replacing older pins who no longer qualify. In my opinion, it is a telltale sign that Amway has stopped reporting North American sales.  (I'm unsure if Amway reversed this practice or not)   I'm sure if sales were up, they would stand on their rooftops and trumpet out such success. Instead, it is covered up like any disparaging news about this business opportunity.

To summarize, "anyone" can succeed. But that simply means that you never know who the next platinum or diamond may be. You don't know where they will come from. And it is unlikely to be a new recruit. If you are using a system such as N21, WWDB, or BWW, then I can say with certainty, that "everyone" cannot succeed.

Warning Signs?

 Having been involved in Amway/Quixtar discussions for decades now, I recognize the many warning signs of a bad upline or a bad LOS.  While not all uplines are the same, I do not believe that any LOS is free of bad teaching, regardless of what you hear. Some of these points are simply clues that you could be in a bad LOS, you still need to think as an independent business owner and watch out for your own best interest.  And please keep track of your expenses versus your Amway income because upline might commonly tell you to ignore basic business principles.

When you were prospected or recruited, was your sponsor upfront about the Amway opportunity or were you told about some new ecommerce opportunity or the like? Were you told that selling products was important/vital or were you told that buying from yourself is the way to succeed? Did you know that some uplines make most of their income from selling business support materials (audios/books/functions )and not from Amway? Were you told that functions and other tools were vital to your success?

Were you told that a college education was not important to your success in Amway? Were you told that buying from yourself can result in a profit? Did someone say that the Amway opportunity helps save marriages or makes you a better person? Was the Amway opportunity used to preach religion or politics to you? Did anyone tell you to ignore facts if you have a dream? Were you told to submit to upline? Or were you told to check your ego at the door? Did you get the impression that your upline was a divine being? Did you give the speaker a standing ovation without knowing why?

Were you told that you save money on Amway products only to realize that they are not generally cheaper than other retailers. Were you told that you have joined the best or the fastest growing LOS? Were you shown fancy cars or other luxuries and told that you can also achieve these lifestyles if you follow the system? Did your upline or sponsor tell you and verify how they are performing in the Amway opportunity or were you simply shown a photocopy of some check from an upline? Did you hear that you should always avoid "negative", or that people who are not in Amway are broke or losers?

These are some warning signs that you could be in a questionable LOS. In many cases, an LOS's priority is simply to sell you tools. Tools that are supposed to help you succeed in Amway, but more often than not, they help the person selling the tools to profit, regardless of whether you make a cent in Amway or not. It is important to look at facts, to track your progress and to keep track of expenses. If you are not progressing as the plan was shown, you may want to take a look and make sure that you are not overspending on tools thar aren't helping you. Or if you are unable to sponsor downline, you may have to ask if this business is for you.

The business has warning signs. It is up to you to see them or to ignore them.

The Psychology Of Amway?

 The Psychology Behind The Presentation

I’m not sure whether this plan was carefully crafted out or whether it just evolved, but the way some uplines show the plan is cleverly designed to suck people into their systems. If you aren’t aware or careful, it’s easy to get caught up in the excitement of the presentation. The presentation is full of deception, and I will try to point out these items in my analysis.

The speaker may talk about how he once thought he was “doing okay” in life. That he was making a living and able to meet his financial obligations. But he thought there might be more. One day he saw the plan, and it changed his life. He did not realize he had gotten into a rut of going to work and going home every day and looking forward to his 2 weeks off each year. (This is relatable for many) That time and money are so important in life. Control of time and money is the key to success. Many people have lots of money but work all day and night. Or people have time but are broke and can’t do much. The speaker might mention dreams or goals such as having an extra $500 a month or more. What would you do for an extra $500 a month. What about an extra $50,000 a year? Wouldn’t it be nice to have the wife stay home with the kids instead of leaving the family to go to work? Like the “Leave it to Beaver” days? (This gets the women excited)

The speaker will likely mention something about the economy and how prices always go up. The speaker may mention the 4 “I’s” that suck money out of your paycheck. The four I’s are Interest, Income Tax, Insurance and Inflation. The speaker may talk about how the government will take their cut and so on until you get your “net”. The speaker may mention how so many Americans are dead or broke by age 65, and that social security will collapse. (This instills fear in many people).

The speaker might also go on to mention how so many marriages are falling apart in the US because of financial stress. That couples work so hard that they have no family time and it hurts marriages. That people work so many hours these days that they are married to their desks. The “manager” of the office is the first one there and the last one to go home. That despite all of this work and effort, people are falling into debt. Credit cards maxed out, loans, trying to keep up with the Joneses. (Many people can relate to this)

But now, because he was looking for opportunity/open minded one day, he saw an opportunity. This opportunity changed his life and can do the same for you! The speaker now wakes up at the crack of noon. His wife stays home with him and the kids. They take nice vacations and they do what they want when they want. (Of course, who doesn’t? But is this true?) The opportunity takes advantage of the internet and allows you to leverage your time and money so that you can create a residual walk away income. (But nobody walks away do they?)

This is approximately the point in the presentation where they mention “Amway” At this point, the speaker will defend Amway, stating that if you can make money, does it matter.? If you can save money, does it matter? The speaker may go into the product line and mention partner stores and will likely show a 6-4-2 plan or a variation of it. In every case, they will show a best-case scenario, not what is likely. Many prospects will leave thinking “all I need is six”. They don’t understand how unlikely it is to sponsor six platinums and there is no mention of the retention rates, the income most IBOs can expect, and firm questions will be deflected to the prospect’s inviter. The speaker may also discourage you from speaking to friends and family as they may have a bad experience, but the diamond is successful and knows more about Amway than your family and friends.

Joe’s commentary: So, the speaker becomes very relatable from the start. His situation in life will be like many in the audience. He will talk about doing okay, but wanting more or looking for more. He talks about debts and many in the audience will also relate. They get people to think about dream cars or vacations. He talks about walk away income but doesn’t mention that very very few ever make significant money and apparently, not many actually walk away either. They say you will make money and save money by doing the business. It’s hard to argue against that,. Except most people will not make money or save money. In fact, most people, if they participate fully or partially in the training system, they will lose money. For the dedicated IBOs, many of them LOSE LOTS OF MONEY. The plan is crafted out to sound sensible and relatable, but many IBOs will give it a try and shortly after, will realize that the system doesn’t work, that the reputation of Amway IBOs is soiled and sponsoring people or even getting people to see the plan is a barrier that most people simply cannot overcome. At least if you know what’s going on, you may be able to avoid the trap.

A Bad Upline?

  A comment left on this blog stated that perhaps I had a bad upline, which may have led to my bad experience in Amway. While this may be true, I have to ask how anyone can possibly know who might be a good or a bad upline? As far as I know, all of the Lines Of Sponsorship such as WWDB or BWW or Network21 sell tools which consists of books, cds/audios, functions, meetings and voicemail. They all earn profits from the sale of these materials; thus they all promote these materials. I have heard that many uplines make more from selling tools than they do from Amway.

It makes perfect sense that some upline would make more money on tools than from Amway because the tools have a larger profit margin than Amway products and because to promote these tools, the uplines must travel from city to city to run functions, thus taking time away from running their Amway businesses. And while they may say verbally that tools are an optional expense, many groups promote them as a DeFacto requirement. For example, I heard that tools were optional but so was success. Or that nobody ever succeeded without tools, but I could be the first to try. My sponsor also told me that Greg Duncan was a multi-millionaire and he thought that tools were vital but if I thought I knew better, I could try it on my own. What is a new IBO to think? It sure sounds like only a fool would try to build the business without tools.

What's also amusing in some ways, is to debate with Amway supporters or defenders who tell me that I simply had a bad upline, and then to find out that they have the same upline that I had! It amazes me because I was in WWDB and basically, the same leaders are on stage today. The same leaders who were on stage when I was an IBO. These leaders at one time told bold lies, such as nobody made a cent of profit on tools, or that WWDB was a non-profit organization. For some reason, IBOs don't seem concerned that upline leaders told these lies. They also mistakenly believe that everything upline tells them now is the truth.

IBOs even deny things that are of public record such as Greg Duncan's chapter 7 bankruptcy proceedings, or Brad Wolgamott's divorce. It seems that uplines just revise history and downlines believe it and do not ask questions or hold upline leaders accountable for their actions. I believe that these leaders should be held accountable and to a higher standard because they have profited handsomely over the years from the sale of tools. But another concern is the utter lack of success from the proven system. Where are the new diamonds? I cannot even think of more than a handful of new WWDB (My former LOS) diamonds from the US since I left the business in 1998 or so. And it might be noted that some diamonds have left since my time in the business.

So I ask the question again. How would an IBO or a prospect know what a bad upline is? Most find out when they finally see the light or when they notice the losses mounting month after month. I hope this blog helps information seekers to see the light.

Defending Amway?

  Back some years ago there was more debate about Amway from critics and defenders alike.  But the lengths that some defenders went to were outright BS to creepy at times. I recall some defenders trying to debate the quality of Amway toilet paper and at least one defender was called a cyber bully by an Amway corporate blogger.   I’ve even seen numerous personal attacks against critics which are uncalled for.  

It seems to me that the simplest defense of Amway would be to show how people are making net profits.  Except perhaps that Amway defenders simply cannot do this in any meaningful way because Amway’s own disclosures debunk most claims about Amway success.  Less than half of all IBOs do anything.  Seems they sign up and are never seen again.  That in itself seems problematic.  

But what about the rest?  Well, the rest may attempt to make a sale or sponsor down line but many of these folks are following the teaching of a line of sponsorship which might include WWDB or Network 21 which are for profit companies that exist to make money for the diamonds and higher ups even if you lose your shirt in Amway.   Ironically it is the cost of the tools and functions that result in business losses for nearly all IBOs who participate. 

A common defense of Amway as presented by the most hard core defenders is that somewhere out there, there is a good Amway where IBOs sell products to regular customers which generates profits to cover the cost of tools and functions and eventually these IBOs move up the ranks until they are net profitable and duplicating these results with their down line.  But whenever pressed to show evidence of these groups, Amway defenders fell on their faces or started the personal attacks, name calling and even cyber bullying at one time. 

If a “good” Amway exists, I can say I’ve never seen or even heard of it.  Back in 2006 I had friended someone who had the equivalent of an emerald business but did not participate in the tools and functions.  They actually sold volume of products and had some down line.  She said the money was okay, not great but the business was basically a full time job.  She is no longer involved last I heard.  But this is the only instance I’ve ever heard of like this. 

Does anyone know where this good Amway can be found?