The Psychology Of Amway?

 The Psychology Behind The Presentation

I’m not sure whether this plan was carefully crafted out or whether it just evolved, but the way some uplines show the plan is cleverly designed to suck people into their systems. If you aren’t aware or careful, it’s easy to get caught up in the excitement of the presentation. The presentation is full of deception, and I will try to point out these items in my analysis.

The speaker may talk about how he once thought he was “doing okay” in life. That he was making a living and able to meet his financial obligations. But he thought there might be more. One day he saw the plan, and it changed his life. He did not realize he had gotten into a rut of going to work and going home every day and looking forward to his 2 weeks off each year. (This is relatable for many) That time and money are so important in life. Control of time and money is the key to success. Many people have lots of money but work all day and night. Or people have time but are broke and can’t do much. The speaker might mention dreams or goals such as having an extra $500 a month or more. What would you do for an extra $500 a month. What about an extra $50,000 a year? Wouldn’t it be nice to have the wife stay home with the kids instead of leaving the family to go to work? Like the “Leave it to Beaver” days? (This gets the women excited)

The speaker will likely mention something about the economy and how prices always go up. The speaker may mention the 4 “I’s” that suck money out of your paycheck. The four I’s are Interest, Income Tax, Insurance and Inflation. The speaker may talk about how the government will take their cut and so on until you get your “net”. The speaker may mention how so many Americans are dead or broke by age 65, and that social security will collapse. (This instills fear in many people).

The speaker might also go on to mention how so many marriages are falling apart in the US because of financial stress. That couples work so hard that they have no family time and it hurts marriages. That people work so many hours these days that they are married to their desks. The “manager” of the office is the first one there and the last one to go home. That despite all of this work and effort, people are falling into debt. Credit cards maxed out, loans, trying to keep up with the Joneses. (Many people can relate to this)

But now, because he was looking for opportunity/open minded one day, he saw an opportunity. This opportunity changed his life and can do the same for you! The speaker now wakes up at the crack of noon. His wife stays home with him and the kids. They take nice vacations and they do what they want when they want. (Of course, who doesn’t? But is this true?) The opportunity takes advantage of the internet and allows you to leverage your time and money so that you can create a residual walk away income. (But nobody walks away do they?)

This is approximately the point in the presentation where they mention “Amway” At this point, the speaker will defend Amway, stating that if you can make money, does it matter.? If you can save money, does it matter? The speaker may go into the product line and mention partner stores and will likely show a 6-4-2 plan or a variation of it. In every case, they will show a best-case scenario, not what is likely. Many prospects will leave thinking “all I need is six”. They don’t understand how unlikely it is to sponsor six platinums and there is no mention of the retention rates, the income most IBOs can expect, and firm questions will be deflected to the prospect’s inviter. The speaker may also discourage you from speaking to friends and family as they may have a bad experience, but the diamond is successful and knows more about Amway than your family and friends.

Joe’s commentary: So, the speaker becomes very relatable from the start. His situation in life will be like many in the audience. He will talk about doing okay, but wanting more or looking for more. He talks about debts and many in the audience will also relate. They get people to think about dream cars or vacations. He talks about walk away income but doesn’t mention that very very few ever make significant money and apparently, not many actually walk away either. They say you will make money and save money by doing the business. It’s hard to argue against that,. Except most people will not make money or save money. In fact, most people, if they participate fully or partially in the training system, they will lose money. For the dedicated IBOs, many of them LOSE LOTS OF MONEY. The plan is crafted out to sound sensible and relatable, but many IBOs will give it a try and shortly after, will realize that the system doesn’t work, that the reputation of Amway IBOs is soiled and sponsoring people or even getting people to see the plan is a barrier that most people simply cannot overcome. At least if you know what’s going on, you may be able to avoid the trap.

A Bad Upline?

  A comment left on this blog stated that perhaps I had a bad upline, which may have led to my bad experience in Amway. While this may be true, I have to ask how anyone can possibly know who might be a good or a bad upline? As far as I know, all of the Lines Of Sponsorship such as WWDB or BWW or Network21 sell tools which consists of books, cds/audios, functions, meetings and voicemail. They all earn profits from the sale of these materials; thus they all promote these materials. I have heard that many uplines make more from selling tools than they do from Amway.

It makes perfect sense that some upline would make more money on tools than from Amway because the tools have a larger profit margin than Amway products and because to promote these tools, the uplines must travel from city to city to run functions, thus taking time away from running their Amway businesses. And while they may say verbally that tools are an optional expense, many groups promote them as a DeFacto requirement. For example, I heard that tools were optional but so was success. Or that nobody ever succeeded without tools, but I could be the first to try. My sponsor also told me that Greg Duncan was a multi-millionaire and he thought that tools were vital but if I thought I knew better, I could try it on my own. What is a new IBO to think? It sure sounds like only a fool would try to build the business without tools.

What's also amusing in some ways, is to debate with Amway supporters or defenders who tell me that I simply had a bad upline, and then to find out that they have the same upline that I had! It amazes me because I was in WWDB and basically, the same leaders are on stage today. The same leaders who were on stage when I was an IBO. These leaders at one time told bold lies, such as nobody made a cent of profit on tools, or that WWDB was a non-profit organization. For some reason, IBOs don't seem concerned that upline leaders told these lies. They also mistakenly believe that everything upline tells them now is the truth.

IBOs even deny things that are of public record such as Greg Duncan's chapter 7 bankruptcy proceedings, or Brad Wolgamott's divorce. It seems that uplines just revise history and downlines believe it and do not ask questions or hold upline leaders accountable for their actions. I believe that these leaders should be held accountable and to a higher standard because they have profited handsomely over the years from the sale of tools. But another concern is the utter lack of success from the proven system. Where are the new diamonds? I cannot even think of more than a handful of new WWDB (My former LOS) diamonds from the US since I left the business in 1998 or so. And it might be noted that some diamonds have left since my time in the business.

So I ask the question again. How would an IBO or a prospect know what a bad upline is? Most find out when they finally see the light or when they notice the losses mounting month after month. I hope this blog helps information seekers to see the light.

Defending Amway?

  Back some years ago there was more debate about Amway from critics and defenders alike.  But the lengths that some defenders went to were outright BS to creepy at times. I recall some defenders trying to debate the quality of Amway toilet paper and at least one defender was called a cyber bully by an Amway corporate blogger.   I’ve even seen numerous personal attacks against critics which are uncalled for.  

It seems to me that the simplest defense of Amway would be to show how people are making net profits.  Except perhaps that Amway defenders simply cannot do this in any meaningful way because Amway’s own disclosures debunk most claims about Amway success.  Less than half of all IBOs do anything.  Seems they sign up and are never seen again.  That in itself seems problematic.  

But what about the rest?  Well, the rest may attempt to make a sale or sponsor down line but many of these folks are following the teaching of a line of sponsorship which might include WWDB or Network 21 which are for profit companies that exist to make money for the diamonds and higher ups even if you lose your shirt in Amway.   Ironically it is the cost of the tools and functions that result in business losses for nearly all IBOs who participate. 

A common defense of Amway as presented by the most hard core defenders is that somewhere out there, there is a good Amway where IBOs sell products to regular customers which generates profits to cover the cost of tools and functions and eventually these IBOs move up the ranks until they are net profitable and duplicating these results with their down line.  But whenever pressed to show evidence of these groups, Amway defenders fell on their faces or started the personal attacks, name calling and even cyber bullying at one time. 

If a “good” Amway exists, I can say I’ve never seen or even heard of it.  Back in 2006 I had friended someone who had the equivalent of an emerald business but did not participate in the tools and functions.  They actually sold volume of products and had some down line.  She said the money was okay, not great but the business was basically a full time job.  She is no longer involved last I heard.  But this is the only instance I’ve ever heard of like this. 

Does anyone know where this good Amway can be found?   

Earn More Than Your Sponsor?

 One of the silly defenses that Amway supporters use to defend their business is that it must not be a pyramid or it must be legitimate because you have the opportunity to earn more than your sponsor. While many downlines in fact do earn more than their sponsors, it's likely because about half of all IBOs quit in a year or less, and those who stay for even a year, when you factor in the business expenses for those who are on tools, the reality of suffering business losses also causes people to exit the business. It's not that hard to earn more than people who quit. But even at that, someone who quits is often better off than IBOs who continue because those on the system are losing money.

An IBO at the 100 PV level will earn about $10 in bonus income from Amway. If they are attending functions, buying standing orders and voicemail, they will operate at a loss. Thus, unless their business grows each month (highly unlikely, even if they do as upline advises) then they will suffer losses each month and those who quit will be better off. It is why I have stated that doing nothing or staying home and watching television can honestly be better options than joining Amway and the systems such as WWDB, N21 or BWW. It is why reasonable people can conclude that working for minimum wage, even a few hours a week makes you better off than joining Amway and the systems.

The defense that someone can out earn their upline is silly. The true benchmark of this statement would be for a new guy to start a business, and in 2-5 years, out earn someone like Bill Britt. It will never happen because upline has direct influence over the fortunes of their downline, even at the diamond level. It is why you have seen diamonds quit, or split from their upline to start their own training systems. They cannot affects change from downline, without upline consent, thus the breaking away from their "mentors" or leaders. At times there have even been lawsuits over the tools income. Do people really sue their mentors? Don't diamonds teach you that suing people is wrong? That you don't get something for nothing?

You can surely out earn your sponsor. All it takes is for your sponsor to quit. However, your sponsor quitting might mean you don't out earn your sponsor. See my example above. Taking losses is not out earning someone. Keep in mind that everyone in Amway is equal. You are all unpaid commissioned Amway salespeople, bound to Amway's terms and agreements. You don't own your downline. You don't really own much as an independent business owner. You can out earn your sponsor, but that means squidly diddly when your sponsor makes nothing or takes a loss. Come back and chirp when you out earn your upline diamond. Do I hear crickets chirping now? :-)

A Future Retiree?

 Check out this blog post from 2010 from an Amway and WWDB IBO. He is talking about retiring and now it is almost the year 2013 and I do not believe he is anywhere closer to retiring now than in 2010 because of his Amway business.

http://expeditionoftruths.com/2010/10/18/1-year/


"Well we are coming up to Free Enterprise Day’s in Portland this weekend and with that I’ve come up to my one year anniversary. I’ve also passed the one year anniversary of this blog and where I started out with it. I started it while being a guest at Free Enterprise Day’s supporting Lindsay in what I had originally thought was something completely stupid, something illegal, something that was going to drive a wedge between us and our marriage. Turns out it was quite the opposite.

There is nothing wrong with a healthy scepticism and boy did I have a lot of “health” scepticism. After spending 5 months of doing some actual research, checking out the Amway site, Better Business Bureau, Checking the history of the company, Industry Canada, and yeah even checking out all the negative blogs out there, I came to the conclusion there was nothing wrong with this business and what it stood for. One of the biggest things that really drew me to business was the environmental stewardship this company stood on and I thought I could get behind that and have no problems promoting those great products. It was however the World Wide Dreambuilders that really intrigued me and instead of driving a wedge between our marriage it has helped solidify it even stronger than it was last year. How the heck could a business do that? Cause it’s founded on good core traditional values such as marriage, relationships, personal growth and living debt free. Not bad values if I do say so.

So I say one year because it’s one year when I joined my wife and we became united together and made a decision together to actually build this. Since then we’ve achieved some great milestones and have had some set backs, as with anything in life. We’ve been able to kill off a HUGE amount of consumer debt that we would have still had to this day if it were not for the great coaches, mentors we have. We’ve been able to ride the example our coaches have set out and we are pretty much right on track with where they are and that’s just the power of duplication. I’ve retired my wife so that she never has to give her 1st best to another man ever again. We will be able to raise our kids never having to know what a daycare or day home looks like. Not to offend anyone however that’s not how we want to raise our kids, we’d much rather instil our own values and be there every step of the way.

Looking forward to the future we are pumped to hit Double Eagle Ruby late next year at which time I’ll be stepping away from my job so that I never have to work for another man’s dream and give my 1st best to them. I know that we will work hard at this so that my kids will always have me at home when they need me and not have to wait for me to come home from work. I look forward to the days that we can take our kids out to the ski hill during the week day and not the weekend when it’s jam packed. I look forward to seeing my parents with the kids anytime we want instead of a set amount of vacation time or trying to stretch out a long weekend. There are so many things we look forward to in our second year in business and we know because of the great examples before us we will actually achieve them.

Now please don’t misunderstand me, these are our goals and things we want to achieve. I’m in no way saying you have to build this business. I’ve chosen this vehicle to obtain our goals and the vision we have set out for our family. You don’t have to agree with me and that’s perfectly fine. I only hope that you have a vehicle out there that will allow you to 100% achieve whatever it is you have set out for you and your family.

Here’s to year #2!"

"Playing" Amway?

 One thing my sponsor often told the group was that many of us were "playing" Amway. What he meant was that many people can listen to an audio or CD every day, read a success book 15-30 minutes each day, attend all the functions, use and/or sell 100 PV or more each month, but never make progress in the business. Basically, what he was saying was unless you are showing the plan and sponsoring downline, you are just playing Amway. And while I agree, I honestly believe that most IBOs simply "play" Amway. And that's partly because you can control some of these activities, but you cannot control who you can sponsor.

People can do most of the CORE steps such as listening to standing orders or cds/audios each day. They can read every day and attend all the functions. They can even use and sell Amway products. But because of previous IBO behavior, many people cannot get anyone to see the plan, let alone sponsor others. Seems like everyone (at least in the US and Canada) know of someone who was lied to or tricked into attending an Amway meeting. This alone has given Amway a shady reputation and just the mention of the name Amway can send people running. I was tricked into a meeting once, and as an IBO, I saw people get up, cuss and leave the meeting because they were lied to or tricked into attending a meeting based on the curiosity approach. (If you're an IBO, have you tried this or taught to use this?)

I do not believe that IBOs in general are dishonest or deceitful. I believe that most of them are probably motivated, wanting more in life, and hard working. But they are taught to duplicate or copy their uplines. I believe it is some of the tenured leaders who teach bad business practices that are duplicated and spreads a bad reputation like an infectious disease. I believe that because of this, Amway's North American sales tanked and now they don't even report the North American sales separately from Global sales. Amway's sales have dropped significantly from 2013 to now.

When you stop and take a deep breath, you see the signs of weakness and the chinks in the armor of the once untouchable and "divine" diamonds. We see diamonds suing other diamonds and Amway. We see diamonds losing their homes to foreclosure (so much for paying cash). A triple diamond was in chapter 7 bankruptcy some years ago and hordes of diamonds leaving their LOS along with their "awesome" mentors and lifelong friends to form their own LOS. Why is this happening? I believe it is because of greed. Why else would you leave a "mentor" and "lifelong friend" to start your own LOS? It's all about the money.

Sadly, while all of this goes on, most IBOs come and go, lose money and "play Amway" along the way. It truly saddens me that this has gone on for so long, and it looks like (in my opinion), that my former LOS, WWDB, seems to have been the worst of the bunch with no apparent improvement in the last 15 to 20 years or so.

You can "play Amway" hard, but you won't make enough net profit to buy a value meal a McDonald's. Of course you are welcome to prove me wrong.

Fired Up IBO Quits And Fails?

This article is a bit dated, but deserves a re-post to illustrate how the mindset works within the dynamic of Amway and the upline leaders:

 Check out this blog post from 2010 from an Amway and WWDB IBO. He is talking about retiring and now it is almost the year 2016. This IBO (Shaun Guthrie) ran a blog called WWDB Expeditions Of Truth, which is now defunct and apparently, Shaun is no longer an IBO. I would assume that he quit and failed. I can still see his twitter account and there's no mention about Amway or residual income and retiring in another year. I do wish him well in his endeavors and hope that he des achieve his dreams, but also knowing that it wasn't going to happen using Amway as a vehicle. This article is a message written by Shaun in 2010 and you can see some pretty big claims. Read on.............

"Well we are coming up to Free Enterprise Day’s in Portland this weekend and with that I’ve come up to my one year anniversary. I’ve also passed the one year anniversary of this blog and where I started out with it. I started it while being a guest at Free Enterprise Day’s supporting Lindsay (wife) in what I had originally thought was something completely stupid, something illegal, something that was going to drive a wedge between us and our marriage. Turns out it was quite the opposite.

There is nothing wrong with a healthy scepticism and boy did I have a lot of “healthy” scepticism. After spending 5 months of doing some actual research, checking out the Amway site, Better Business Bureau, Checking the history of the company, Industry Canada, and yeah even checking out all the negative blogs out there, I came to the conclusion there was nothing wrong with this business and what it stood for. One of the biggest things that really drew me to business was the environmental stewardship this company stood on and I thought I could get behind that and have no problems promoting those great products. It was however the World Wide Dreambuilders that really intrigued me and instead of driving a wedge between our marriage it has helped solidify it even stronger than it was last year. How the heck could a business do that? Cause it’s founded on good core traditional values such as marriage, relationships, personal growth and living debt free. Not bad values if I do say so.

So I say one year because it’s one year when I joined my wife and we became united together and made a decision together to actually build this. Since then we’ve achieved some great milestones and have had some set backs, as with anything in life. We’ve been able to kill off a HUGE amount of consumer debt that we would have still had to this day if it were not for the great coaches, mentors we have. We’ve been able to ride the example our coaches have set out and we are pretty much right on track with where they are and that’s just the power of duplication. I’ve retired my wife so that she never has to give her 1st best to another man ever again. We will be able to raise our kids never having to know what a daycare or day home looks like. Not to offend anyone however that’s not how we want to raise our kids, we’d much rather instil our own values and be there every step of the way.

Looking forward to the future we are pumped to hit Double Eagle Ruby late next year at which time I’ll be stepping away from my job so that I never have to work for another man’s dream and give my 1st best to them. I know that we will work hard at this so that my kids will always have me at home when they need me and not have to wait for me to come home from work. I look forward to the days that we can take our kids out to the ski hill during the week day and not the weekend when it’s jam packed. I look forward to seeing my parents with the kids anytime we want instead of a set amount of vacation time or trying to stretch out a long weekend. There are so many things we look forward to in our second year in business and we know because of the great examples before us we will actually achieve them.

Now please don’t misunderstand me, these are our goals and things we want to achieve. I’m in no way saying you have to build this business. I’ve chosen this vehicle to obtain our goals and the vision we have set out for our family. You don’t have to agree with me and that’s perfectly fine. I only hope that you have a vehicle out there that will allow you to 100% achieve whatever it is you have set out for you and your family".

Here’s to year #2!"