Defending Amway?

  Back some years ago there was more debate about Amway from critics and defenders alike.  But the lengths that some defenders went to were outright BS to creepy at times. I recall some defenders trying to debate the quality of Amway toilet paper and at least one defender was called a cyber bully by an Amway corporate blogger.   I’ve even seen numerous personal attacks against critics which are uncalled for.  

It seems to me that the simplest defense of Amway would be to show how people are making net profits.  Except perhaps that Amway defenders simply cannot do this in any meaningful way because Amway’s own disclosures debunk most claims about Amway success.  Less than half of all IBOs do anything.  Seems they sign up and are never seen again.  That in itself seems problematic.  

But what about the rest?  Well, the rest may attempt to make a sale or sponsor down line but many of these folks are following the teaching of a line of sponsorship which might include WWDB or Network 21 which are for profit companies that exist to make money for the diamonds and higher ups even if you lose your shirt in Amway.   Ironically it is the cost of the tools and functions that result in business losses for nearly all IBOs who participate. 

A common defense of Amway as presented by the most hard core defenders is that somewhere out there, there is a good Amway where IBOs sell products to regular customers which generates profits to cover the cost of tools and functions and eventually these IBOs move up the ranks until they are net profitable and duplicating these results with their down line.  But whenever pressed to show evidence of these groups, Amway defenders fell on their faces or started the personal attacks, name calling and even cyber bullying at one time. 

If a “good” Amway exists, I can say I’ve never seen or even heard of it.  Back in 2006 I had friended someone who had the equivalent of an emerald business but did not participate in the tools and functions.  They actually sold volume of products and had some down line.  She said the money was okay, not great but the business was basically a full time job.  She is no longer involved last I heard.  But this is the only instance I’ve ever heard of like this. 

Does anyone know where this good Amway can be found?   

Earn More Than Your Sponsor?

 One of the silly defenses that Amway supporters use to defend their business is that it must not be a pyramid or it must be legitimate because you have the opportunity to earn more than your sponsor. While many downlines in fact do earn more than their sponsors, it's likely because about half of all IBOs quit in a year or less, and those who stay for even a year, when you factor in the business expenses for those who are on tools, the reality of suffering business losses also causes people to exit the business. It's not that hard to earn more than people who quit. But even at that, someone who quits is often better off than IBOs who continue because those on the system are losing money.

An IBO at the 100 PV level will earn about $10 in bonus income from Amway. If they are attending functions, buying standing orders and voicemail, they will operate at a loss. Thus, unless their business grows each month (highly unlikely, even if they do as upline advises) then they will suffer losses each month and those who quit will be better off. It is why I have stated that doing nothing or staying home and watching television can honestly be better options than joining Amway and the systems such as WWDB, N21 or BWW. It is why reasonable people can conclude that working for minimum wage, even a few hours a week makes you better off than joining Amway and the systems.

The defense that someone can out earn their upline is silly. The true benchmark of this statement would be for a new guy to start a business, and in 2-5 years, out earn someone like Bill Britt. It will never happen because upline has direct influence over the fortunes of their downline, even at the diamond level. It is why you have seen diamonds quit, or split from their upline to start their own training systems. They cannot affects change from downline, without upline consent, thus the breaking away from their "mentors" or leaders. At times there have even been lawsuits over the tools income. Do people really sue their mentors? Don't diamonds teach you that suing people is wrong? That you don't get something for nothing?

You can surely out earn your sponsor. All it takes is for your sponsor to quit. However, your sponsor quitting might mean you don't out earn your sponsor. See my example above. Taking losses is not out earning someone. Keep in mind that everyone in Amway is equal. You are all unpaid commissioned Amway salespeople, bound to Amway's terms and agreements. You don't own your downline. You don't really own much as an independent business owner. You can out earn your sponsor, but that means squidly diddly when your sponsor makes nothing or takes a loss. Come back and chirp when you out earn your upline diamond. Do I hear crickets chirping now? :-)

A Future Retiree?

 Check out this blog post from 2010 from an Amway and WWDB IBO. He is talking about retiring and now it is almost the year 2013 and I do not believe he is anywhere closer to retiring now than in 2010 because of his Amway business.

http://expeditionoftruths.com/2010/10/18/1-year/


"Well we are coming up to Free Enterprise Day’s in Portland this weekend and with that I’ve come up to my one year anniversary. I’ve also passed the one year anniversary of this blog and where I started out with it. I started it while being a guest at Free Enterprise Day’s supporting Lindsay in what I had originally thought was something completely stupid, something illegal, something that was going to drive a wedge between us and our marriage. Turns out it was quite the opposite.

There is nothing wrong with a healthy scepticism and boy did I have a lot of “health” scepticism. After spending 5 months of doing some actual research, checking out the Amway site, Better Business Bureau, Checking the history of the company, Industry Canada, and yeah even checking out all the negative blogs out there, I came to the conclusion there was nothing wrong with this business and what it stood for. One of the biggest things that really drew me to business was the environmental stewardship this company stood on and I thought I could get behind that and have no problems promoting those great products. It was however the World Wide Dreambuilders that really intrigued me and instead of driving a wedge between our marriage it has helped solidify it even stronger than it was last year. How the heck could a business do that? Cause it’s founded on good core traditional values such as marriage, relationships, personal growth and living debt free. Not bad values if I do say so.

So I say one year because it’s one year when I joined my wife and we became united together and made a decision together to actually build this. Since then we’ve achieved some great milestones and have had some set backs, as with anything in life. We’ve been able to kill off a HUGE amount of consumer debt that we would have still had to this day if it were not for the great coaches, mentors we have. We’ve been able to ride the example our coaches have set out and we are pretty much right on track with where they are and that’s just the power of duplication. I’ve retired my wife so that she never has to give her 1st best to another man ever again. We will be able to raise our kids never having to know what a daycare or day home looks like. Not to offend anyone however that’s not how we want to raise our kids, we’d much rather instil our own values and be there every step of the way.

Looking forward to the future we are pumped to hit Double Eagle Ruby late next year at which time I’ll be stepping away from my job so that I never have to work for another man’s dream and give my 1st best to them. I know that we will work hard at this so that my kids will always have me at home when they need me and not have to wait for me to come home from work. I look forward to the days that we can take our kids out to the ski hill during the week day and not the weekend when it’s jam packed. I look forward to seeing my parents with the kids anytime we want instead of a set amount of vacation time or trying to stretch out a long weekend. There are so many things we look forward to in our second year in business and we know because of the great examples before us we will actually achieve them.

Now please don’t misunderstand me, these are our goals and things we want to achieve. I’m in no way saying you have to build this business. I’ve chosen this vehicle to obtain our goals and the vision we have set out for our family. You don’t have to agree with me and that’s perfectly fine. I only hope that you have a vehicle out there that will allow you to 100% achieve whatever it is you have set out for you and your family.

Here’s to year #2!"

"Playing" Amway?

 One thing my sponsor often told the group was that many of us were "playing" Amway. What he meant was that many people can listen to an audio or CD every day, read a success book 15-30 minutes each day, attend all the functions, use and/or sell 100 PV or more each month, but never make progress in the business. Basically, what he was saying was unless you are showing the plan and sponsoring downline, you are just playing Amway. And while I agree, I honestly believe that most IBOs simply "play" Amway. And that's partly because you can control some of these activities, but you cannot control who you can sponsor.

People can do most of the CORE steps such as listening to standing orders or cds/audios each day. They can read every day and attend all the functions. They can even use and sell Amway products. But because of previous IBO behavior, many people cannot get anyone to see the plan, let alone sponsor others. Seems like everyone (at least in the US and Canada) know of someone who was lied to or tricked into attending an Amway meeting. This alone has given Amway a shady reputation and just the mention of the name Amway can send people running. I was tricked into a meeting once, and as an IBO, I saw people get up, cuss and leave the meeting because they were lied to or tricked into attending a meeting based on the curiosity approach. (If you're an IBO, have you tried this or taught to use this?)

I do not believe that IBOs in general are dishonest or deceitful. I believe that most of them are probably motivated, wanting more in life, and hard working. But they are taught to duplicate or copy their uplines. I believe it is some of the tenured leaders who teach bad business practices that are duplicated and spreads a bad reputation like an infectious disease. I believe that because of this, Amway's North American sales tanked and now they don't even report the North American sales separately from Global sales. Amway's sales have dropped significantly from 2013 to now.

When you stop and take a deep breath, you see the signs of weakness and the chinks in the armor of the once untouchable and "divine" diamonds. We see diamonds suing other diamonds and Amway. We see diamonds losing their homes to foreclosure (so much for paying cash). A triple diamond was in chapter 7 bankruptcy some years ago and hordes of diamonds leaving their LOS along with their "awesome" mentors and lifelong friends to form their own LOS. Why is this happening? I believe it is because of greed. Why else would you leave a "mentor" and "lifelong friend" to start your own LOS? It's all about the money.

Sadly, while all of this goes on, most IBOs come and go, lose money and "play Amway" along the way. It truly saddens me that this has gone on for so long, and it looks like (in my opinion), that my former LOS, WWDB, seems to have been the worst of the bunch with no apparent improvement in the last 15 to 20 years or so.

You can "play Amway" hard, but you won't make enough net profit to buy a value meal a McDonald's. Of course you are welcome to prove me wrong.

Fired Up IBO Quits And Fails?

This article is a bit dated, but deserves a re-post to illustrate how the mindset works within the dynamic of Amway and the upline leaders:

 Check out this blog post from 2010 from an Amway and WWDB IBO. He is talking about retiring and now it is almost the year 2016. This IBO (Shaun Guthrie) ran a blog called WWDB Expeditions Of Truth, which is now defunct and apparently, Shaun is no longer an IBO. I would assume that he quit and failed. I can still see his twitter account and there's no mention about Amway or residual income and retiring in another year. I do wish him well in his endeavors and hope that he des achieve his dreams, but also knowing that it wasn't going to happen using Amway as a vehicle. This article is a message written by Shaun in 2010 and you can see some pretty big claims. Read on.............

"Well we are coming up to Free Enterprise Day’s in Portland this weekend and with that I’ve come up to my one year anniversary. I’ve also passed the one year anniversary of this blog and where I started out with it. I started it while being a guest at Free Enterprise Day’s supporting Lindsay (wife) in what I had originally thought was something completely stupid, something illegal, something that was going to drive a wedge between us and our marriage. Turns out it was quite the opposite.

There is nothing wrong with a healthy scepticism and boy did I have a lot of “healthy” scepticism. After spending 5 months of doing some actual research, checking out the Amway site, Better Business Bureau, Checking the history of the company, Industry Canada, and yeah even checking out all the negative blogs out there, I came to the conclusion there was nothing wrong with this business and what it stood for. One of the biggest things that really drew me to business was the environmental stewardship this company stood on and I thought I could get behind that and have no problems promoting those great products. It was however the World Wide Dreambuilders that really intrigued me and instead of driving a wedge between our marriage it has helped solidify it even stronger than it was last year. How the heck could a business do that? Cause it’s founded on good core traditional values such as marriage, relationships, personal growth and living debt free. Not bad values if I do say so.

So I say one year because it’s one year when I joined my wife and we became united together and made a decision together to actually build this. Since then we’ve achieved some great milestones and have had some set backs, as with anything in life. We’ve been able to kill off a HUGE amount of consumer debt that we would have still had to this day if it were not for the great coaches, mentors we have. We’ve been able to ride the example our coaches have set out and we are pretty much right on track with where they are and that’s just the power of duplication. I’ve retired my wife so that she never has to give her 1st best to another man ever again. We will be able to raise our kids never having to know what a daycare or day home looks like. Not to offend anyone however that’s not how we want to raise our kids, we’d much rather instil our own values and be there every step of the way.

Looking forward to the future we are pumped to hit Double Eagle Ruby late next year at which time I’ll be stepping away from my job so that I never have to work for another man’s dream and give my 1st best to them. I know that we will work hard at this so that my kids will always have me at home when they need me and not have to wait for me to come home from work. I look forward to the days that we can take our kids out to the ski hill during the week day and not the weekend when it’s jam packed. I look forward to seeing my parents with the kids anytime we want instead of a set amount of vacation time or trying to stretch out a long weekend. There are so many things we look forward to in our second year in business and we know because of the great examples before us we will actually achieve them.

Now please don’t misunderstand me, these are our goals and things we want to achieve. I’m in no way saying you have to build this business. I’ve chosen this vehicle to obtain our goals and the vision we have set out for our family. You don’t have to agree with me and that’s perfectly fine. I only hope that you have a vehicle out there that will allow you to 100% achieve whatever it is you have set out for you and your family".

Here’s to year #2!"

Buy From yourself?

 As an Amway IBO, our group was often told that selling products were not that important. Just buy from yourself and get others to do the same. When prospecting, you ask if someone likes selling and if they say no, you say "great, this business is perfect for you". Or if someone says they like selling, you say "great, this business is perfect for your". Keep in mind that a business exists to sell a product or service for a profit. I believe Amway folks forget about this fact.

People naturally do not like selling stuff to people, thus the adaptation to being your own best customer or buying from your own store. While it's fine to support your own business, it is not true that a McDonald's owner would never eat at a Burger King or other sill claims. Do you believe that a McDonald's owner would only eat food sold at his own restaurant? I guarantee you that isn't true. I know someone who owns a very popular pizza franchise, and she says she never eats at her own restaurant because she's sick of eating pizza. You make money selling pizza so you can have other options.

Another thing that Amway IBOs are probably not aware of is that buying from yourself and getting others to do the same without real sales to actual customers is running a illegal pyramid scheme. Another MLM company Herbalife, was investigated by the FTC and while they were not shut down, they were fined and had to change their operations because the FTC found that they lacked sales to legitimate customers. Herbalife is now forced to track retail sales with a compliance monitor watching their moves. There are stories of Herbalifers trying to fudge sales and Herbalife higher ups encouraging people to sign up as preferred customers instead of business builders. That suggests to me that Herbalife is basically admitting they are a sham. If they had legitimate demand, they would run a campaign to recruit more business builders who would in turn, sell products to customers who want their products.

So Amway IBOs, are a majority of your PV sales to yourself or to customers? Are your customers your family and friends who are somewhat reluctantly buying products from you, if at all? If you are just buying and using your own products, you are actually not entitled to an Amway performance bonus. On the bright side, it seems that Amway just ignores this requirement and pays bonuses anyway. But without legitimate demand, sales and revenues dry up when the markets begin to get saturated. Amway's sales hit a peak at 11.8 billion in 2014 and has gone into a downward spiral since. In 2016, Amway sales dropped 7% to 8.8 billion which was preceded by a double digit drop in 2015.

With sales and revenues down, that can only mean there are less sales and volume, therefore there are less Platinums and diamonds that can be supported. But Amway prospects will never know because once you earn diamond recognition, Amway never updates it. Once a diamond, always a diamond, if you will. Thus, the leaders that are Bing worshipped on stage might not even be diamonds anymore.

In the end, I write this post to give you food for thought. Too many prospects and IBOs are not aware of these issues but they certainly should be,

How Diamonds Prosper?

  One of the things that many Amway IBOs do not understand is where the upline diamond profits actually come from. They think they will obtain passive residual income but most do not understand how it works or where the money comes from. What most people see instead, is a photocopy of an upline's check, or they may see upline driving a nice car or something like that. They do not understand how the business works and the fact that there are two businesses at work. The Amway opportunity and the tools (business support materials) business. Frankly, most IBOs would be much better off giving their upline a check for $50 each month and never getting involved in the Amway opportunity to begin with.

Upline diamonds (or higher ups) earn some income from the movement of products. Amway returns about 33+% of their gross in the form of bonuses. Most (active business building) IBOs earn 3% while uplines split up the remaining 30% of the bonus. Not such a great deal when you think about it. Also, most IBOs overspend on Amway products. They are not simply replacing what they normally buy. If they did, then there would be tons of former IBOs continuing to move 100 PV or more. Instead, when an IBO quits, they either buy nothing from Amway anymore, or they may use a few products here and there. The opportunity and the way it is promoted simply creates an artificial demand for Amway products. If the products were so great, why then after 50 years of business, why the Amway sales aren't going through the roof if former Amway IBOs get hooked on the products and keep buying them? The answer is that they typically stop buying once the "dream" of residual income ends.

Then you have the tools business where IBOs don't even get a measly 3% of the profits. Uplines keep all of the tool profits. Also, the tools have a higher profit margin than Amway products. While this may seem acceptable on the surface, keep in mind that the tools are inefficient. There is no unbiased evidence that I know of that suggests that the tools create a natural progression of IBOs from 0 PV to diamond. I cannot name more than a few new diamonds in the US since I left the business in 1997 or 1998. And even if there were some new diamonds, I believe there were even more who quit or left Amway for other reasons. One might wonder why a diamond would quit in the first place if there really was residual passive income involved.

So where does upline profits come from? Simple, it comes directly out of the pockets of downline. If IBOs actually sold products, then some profits would come from sales and customers. Instead, most Amway sales are simply made from upline to downline. And virtually ALL sales in the tools business comes from upline to downline. Thus many IBOs spend $250 to $300 a month on products and get back $10 if they reach 100 PV. Then you factor in the $100 to $250 monthly that IBOs typically spend on tools. Suddenly that cheap or no risk opportunity doesn't sound so cheap. And try working it for several years and IBOs can easily rack up tens of thousands of dollars of expenses or more.

That's where upline profits come from folks. Do the math, most IBOs truly would be better off giving upline a check for $50 a month and doing nothing else.