Amway IBOs Are Funny?

  I often get a kick out of Amway IBOs who make outlandish claims and then mumble, stumble and bumble to back up their claims, or to offer at least a verbal explanation of their claims. I believe many IBOs, newbies in particular are loaded with enthusiasm, but lacking in actual Amway business knowledge. Certain groups have a certain philosophy, which sometimes comes out in a conversation. But I believe in most cases, the philosophy is one of talk and not action. Amway's own numbers seem to back up many of the claims made by critics, such as the low amount of sales to people who are not IBOs.

I recently saw a blog post by a WWDB IBO who says he got a nice tax refund from the government, mainly because of his business deductions. He also claims that his Amway business is booming and that he is making money. Now I'm not a tax genius, but if you are writing off losses on your business, you would get a refund, and if you were actually making money, then you would actually be paying more taxes because your taxable income would then be higher. It's amazing how some IBOs will try to fake success in ways that clearly show they are putting up a facade.  

Other obvious ways are IBOs who say they are brand new in Amway but are making over $5000 a month. Now I do believe that it can be "possible" to make some money in Amway, and obviously some people do make a nice income from Amway, but generally, these will be tenured higher pins. The vast majority of IBOs do not make any significant money from Amway and if these same IBOs were participating in the teaching systems such as Network 21, WWDB, or BWW, then they are likely ending up with a net loss because the monthly expenditures for voicemail, functions, books and standing orders exceed (by far) the monthly income for most IBOs.

Even diamonds who want to flash fancy cars and gadgets. I believe many of these diamonds are not making as much as they want you to believe and in fact, if you just get a calculator and figure out what a flashy lifestyle costs, you will see that it will simply not be sustainable on Amway income, even when you factor in the tools income. Some diamonds whose incomes were exposed when they quit or had legal proceedings indicate that while a diamond (or higher) income may be nice, it will not sustain the kinds of lifestyles they speak about at Dream Night functions, or other functions where great wealth is displayed.

They may be fooling (some) new prospects, but they do not fool me, and I hope they do not fool you. But it is funny when you see it happening.

The Solution?

 I just shake my head when I read about the kinds of advice that Amway IBOs receive from their trusted mentors and upline.   Now let me say that I would have nothing to criticize if downline IBOs were regularly progressing and moving up the ranks and actually making money.  But it’s obvious that most IBOS are spinning their wheels getting nowhere fast and the only advice that upline seemingly gives is to spend more money on functions and tools that are already proven to be ineffective.   Your Amway business isn't growing?  Buy more tools and functions?  What kind of business expends more resources on non-revenue producing materials other than Amway IBOs?

When most real business owners are cutting expenses or looking at strategies to bring in more revenue, Amway IBOS and uplines are advising people to spend more money on activities that don’t make them money.  Why not just get a pile of cash and burn it?  The result would be the same except the diamonds wouldn't profit from it.  Keep in mind that the upline profits from the sale of tools and functions so it seems pretty dubious that upline would advise struggling downline to spend more time and money on things that haven’t worked in the first place.  

What is the real solution to a failing business?  I can’t tell you that, but I can tell you that spending more money on things that do not result in more sales and profits is not the solution.  Most dedicated IBOs lose money because of the tools and functions which are not effective in helping IBOS become profitable.  What makes it more insidious is that uplines profit nicely for giving downline bad
advice even if their bad advice results in bigger losses.  And the sad part is the upline will say they would never mislead downline (on purpose), which in my opinion is a huge lie.  They almost always mislead downline for their own profit, again, in my opinion.

When it comes to Amway, it seems apparent to me that the only logical solution is to walk away, seek refunds on whatever you can and find another activity to make some income. Sitting at home watching TV is more profitable to most IBOS than actively trying to run an Amway business.

Con Artists?

 A site visitor comment mentioned that a diamond us basically a con artist.  Con is short for confidence.  They get you to trust them with small talk, building you up and eliciting your goals and dreams.  Once they get you there, suddenly they try to close the deal by saying you can’t afford to open a real business so Amway makes perfect sense and with their nearly foolproof system you can’t go wrong.  This is where the hook comes in.  You might take "baby" steps, but eventually the hard sell comes.

They may start you out with a few free audios or meetings, but the bar gets raised soon enough.  You’ll be told that a real business owner needs to invest in their business.  An investment into learning about the business and how to build it.  You just need to be reachable and open minded and follow the footsteps of your upline leaders.  Ironically many IBOS call their upline mentors when in reality, they are like con artists working a scam or working theirs "marks" as one might call it.  

In a way, they’re not much different than any run of the mill scammer.  You get the prospect hooked and get them to hand over money.  One difference is that the upline just takes smaller amounts but on a regular basis via their system of books, audios, functions, meetings and other educational materials. If Amway IBOS actually did the work and many were profitable, my opinion would be different.  Instead, the masses contribute to the diamonds lifestyle with the irony being that the IBOS treat the diamonds like rock stars and worship them.  That's like a guy smiling as he reaches into your pocket and takes your wallet.

The vast majority of IBOs make nothing or lose money.  That isn't even remotely disputable.  Some people lose a lot of money.  What’s worse is the diamonds apparently don’t care that many are hurting and possibly struggling to make ends meet.   But they continue to exploit their down line by running functions but charging high prices for giving the IBOs useless information.  But in the end, the Amway business is person to person and typically face to face.  I can’t imagine any serious useful teaching coming from upline.  Not that normal functions have useful teaching.  Where's the actual sales to customers?  Where's the attention to someone's bottom line?  Aren't those things more important than having IBOs stalking people in coffee shops?

In the end. it is my informed opinion that Amway diamonds operate just like con artists but they try to make themselves look like business associates and mentors.  Big deal.

Joecool's Blog?

 Over the years, I've had numerous comments left here, some deleted (for racial and abusive language) and the vast majority published.   Many Amway IBOs and/or Amway supporters often calling me names and accusing me of "bashing" Amway. I believe that these folks are misguided. If you carefully read my blog posts, many are not about Amway the corporation, but are aimed at the abusive practices of certain AMOs, or the groups that sell their system of tapes, cds, books, KATE, and functions. I believe that Amway the corporation is somewhat culpable as they did not reign in the abusers, but still, it is certain LOSs who teach bad business practices and give IBOs bad advice, which incidentally, costs the IBOs money.

Joecool was once upon a time, an Amway IBO, and officially quit Amway sometime in 1998. The name quixtar was already floating around. I quit, got on with my life and basically forgot about Amway. But more and more, I discovered that my upline leaders had been liars and had seriously misrepresented the business. I am from the era where upline leaders told us that nobody made a cent from the tools, which is now known as a lie. They told us that diamonds pay cash for nearly everything, which includes homes. We know that is a lie. Based on what I heard about my sponsor, I believe it is still taught as my sponsor, who is a physician, is still renting a small home in a rural area on Oahu. I started to participate on the now defunct Quixtar blog to learn more about the tool scam, and I started blogging to be able to help others learn about what I had discovered. My blog used to get thousands of visitors each day, although that is no longer the case. I have helped many people over the years who benefited by the experiences and information that I have shared. I do not receive any financial compensation for blogging.

For those who call Joecool a loser, let me talk about some things I have accomplished in life sine I quit Amway. I received several promotions at work, and recently got promoted to a new job where I was offered a pretty nice salary.  I am now retired and I'm only in my late 50's as of this writing.   I own my home (I did not pay in cash, LOL). I bowled a 300 game, made a hole in one, and ran several marathons. I'm just an average middle-class citizen in Hawaii. I started Joecool's blog in 2006 or so. My old blog has been deleted as the host did not maintain the site well and I eventually got hacked and sabotaged. I started this current site on blogger in late 2009.

I am not here to "steal" anyone's dream. I am not here to "bash" Amway. But Amway, the business opportunity is one where most people do not make money to begin with. Add in the expenses for tapes, cds, voicemail and functions and you have almost a 100% chance of failure. Yet some upline leaders will promote Amway as a easy shortcut to retirement with a surefire chance of success if you dedicate to the system. But the system does not work. There is no bonafide evidence that the system works. This is what Joecool's blog is about - primarily the systems and its problems.  And to expose the many lies uplines use to bait and hook their faithful downline into buying tools and functions.

An Observation?

 http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=192279&page=8

It's refreshing to see so many good people on this forum telling the truth about Amway. It looks like the pro-Amway shills here and on other sites are becoming increasingly outnumbered and desperate. I've read through this entire thread and think it is hilarious how many times the shill has to move the goal-posts or play word games to make Amway look like an amazing business opportunity.

I was originally introduced to Amway many years ago in my late teens by an uncle of mine. I attended a few of their seminars, and was impressed at first. But the whole thing started to seem ridiculous and unrealistic and so I didn't get involved any further. Also, I'm not that materialistic, so Amway's message doesn't appeal to me. I wish my uncle had been more skeptical.

My uncle was very devoted to Amway for a few years. He bought all their products(especially the tapes and books), tried to get others to buy them, and also tried to recruit all his family and friends into his new religion. He eventually lost money and friends and alienated himself from much of his family.

Already heavily in debt, he eventually fell for another, even bigger get-rich-quick scam shortly after quitting Amway(to Amway's credit, they don't threaten to kill anyone for leaving Amway). This one robbed him of his entire life savings. The scammers got away with it because they knew how to play him right(he met one of them through Amway). His wife divorced him soon after.

As if this wasn't enough, after making a modest financial recovery with his business over the course of several years, he loses it all to yet another scam. He had to borrow heavily from the few friends he had left since no bank would ever give him a loan, and almost no one in the family has anything to do with him anymore. I haven't seen him for 15 years.

One thing I wonder about my uncle is if all those seminars and inspirational tapes and books softened him up to fall for all those other scams he fell for after quitting Amway(he didn't have a reputation for being gullible before joining Amway, though he was never that bright to begin with). If I remember correctly, he tended to blame himself for failing at Amway, and may have never understood that it was a big scam or at least not a good business opportunity.

I still remember those crazy seminars and how they told everyone that joining the Amway cult will likely lead to yachts, exotic vacations surrounded by hot bikini babes, and shiny expensive cars, among other symbols of wealth. Everyone is told at the seminars and in the "tools" that they have all this unfulfilled potential, but to realize this potential we must avoid those small-minded "dream killers"(skeptical family members and friends).

The story about my stupid uncle is true. There are many other people out there just like him who have fallen for Amway and others MLMs. The few people I've met who claimed they were very successful at Amway usually seemed sleazy or I would find out years later they were up to their eyeballs in debt.

The person who said before that the people who regularly attend these seminars are mostly fools and misfits was spot on.

Responsibility?

 One of the disturbing things I have noticed about Amway IBOs and IBO leaders is how they will tell downline to trust them. To trust them as they have already blazed a trail. No need to re-invent the wheel. Just ride the coattails of your upline to success. The system is proven. Many IBOs take this to heart and put forth tremendous effort. Then when they fail, upline will shun them and tell them that the failure is their own. That they are personally responsible for failure. The sad thing is that many IBOs believe this and allow their upline a "pass" when it comes to responsibility.

Now I am not talking about IBOs who sign up and do nothing or never place an order. I do believe that the fact that many IBOs sign up and do nothing brings concerns about how these IBOs were recruited, but I do not recall ever seeing an IBO do nothing and then complain that Amway was a scam or anything like that. What does concern me and should concern Amway prospects is that the IBOs are paying for the advice that doesn't work. A dedicated IBO who is on standing order, book of the month and attending functions are paying for these tools in order to be successful, or successful as their upline claims they will be.

What's interesting, however, is that many people who are critical of Amway and the systems, put forth much effort, did everything they were told, and did not find the success that upline promoted, or in some cases, guaranteed. My former sponsor was still active; last I heard and has been in Amway for over 20 years. I do not believe he has ever gone beyond platinum, and I know that he was never a Q12 platinum. Some Amway apologists might see being a platinum as a bonus, but when you are hard core sold out to the systems, platinum is a break even or make a small profit business. Factor in that time spent by husband and wife and these folks are breaking even or making a fraction of minimum wage. Is this the dream that will allow you to buy mansions with a cash payment?

What is also disturbing is how people will tout the system as responsible for any success but hide the vast majority that the system doesn't help. Sure, some will succeed in Amway, but for every success, there are hundreds if not thousands or tens of thousands who fail. And if you consider diamond as the benchmark of success, the failures could be in the millions. As I said, some succeed, but very very few in relation to the number who try. Going diamond is probably less common in the US than winning the lottery.

Succeed and the systems and upline take credit, but fail or quit and it is your own responsibility. Are these the kinds of leaders or mentors you want advice from? It's a matter of "heads I win and tails you lose" (not in yout favor) if you buy into this system.

The Secret Of Amway Success?

  My upline diamond used to say that the key to success is Amway is duplication, or copying.  He would use an analogy of being in grade school and copying someone else’s answers and that if you can master that one skill, you will be successful in Amway.  Even things downline IBOs do should be duplicatable is what upline would day, meaning others need to be able to copy it.  But oddly, the few people who can actually copy or duplicate their way to success is very miniscule.  In fact, it seems like most IBOs wind up copying each other while doing what upline advises and they still lose money in droves.  

Doesn’t that sound sweet and simple?  Just copy as if you’re in school and looking over the shoulder of the class brainiac. Very easy and straightforward right?  But obviously that concept doesn’t work.  If it did, there would be a lot of success constantly churning from the rank-and-file IBOs.  But instead, what we see is a revolving door of people coming and going (quitting) without making a net profit or losing money, generally from business expenses such as tools and functions.  Many IBOs may try for a while but find the process difficult and frankly, frustrating along the way, not to mention the part about the masses losing money on a regular basis.

And it’s no wonder that duplication doesn’t work in real life because the system is too severely flawed.  You are buying and/or selling products that are relatively unknown and generic in nature but being sold at premium prices.  Now that’s not to say all Amway products are bad or are of bad value but overall, you can find better value if you shop at Costco or Walmart.   It’s pretty hard to dispute that unless you’re a fully dedicated and indoctrinated IBO.   I can go to Costco for example, a get a cart full of stuff for a few hundred dollars and the same amount of cash gets you maybe a handbasket of stuff from Amway.

In general, most upline teaching has “core” steps for IBOs to follow and while they are not complicated, they are difficult to follow.  In particular, finding people agreeable to see the plan or to sell products to are difficult tasks and you can’t just duplicate yourself to success.  But what IBOs can do is listen to audios, read books, buy their defacto 100 PV quota, and attend all meetings and functions.  This is what the majority of core IBOs do, based on my own observations from my time in the business as an IBO myself.

Sadly, the steps that are easily copied or duplicated are the ones that cost IBOs money, and the steps that are vital to growth such as selling products and showing the plan are the ones that are nearly impossible to duplicate. And that in a nutshell is why the vast majority of IBOs make nothing or lose money in the Amway business opportunity. And that is my well-informed opinion.