Amway Tidbits?

 So many people get duped into thinking that they will somehow get extremely wealthy by becoming an Amway IBO. Many recruiters will tell stories about how they were once broke, but signed up, endured challenges and now they are diamonds enjoying untold wealth and luxuries. People get caught up in "dreams" and are often encouraged to ignore the facts. People running businesses should pay close attention to the facts because it tells you much about your business and your likelihood of success. But what are some facts about the Amway business that many people don't know about? I have outlined a few important ones for those who harbor dreams of going diamond.

1. The average diamond, according to Amway, earns about than $150,000 a year. Yes, some of this may be supplemented with money from the sale of tools, but after taxes and business expenses such as travel to and from the many functions that a diamond attends, would leave a diamond living an ordinary middle-class lifestyle, not one with mansions and sports cars as portrayed in many functions or meetings. Yes, a Q12 diamond would have more earnings, but a Q12 diamond is the rare exception, and not the rule. (Amway.com says a Q12 diamond makes over 500K but a Q12 Diamond is the rare exception)  If you truly understand what a Q12 diamond is, you will know what I'm talking about.

2. Most IBOs are NEVER able to sponsor a single downline. Pretty hard to develop six (6) downline platinums when most people cannot sponsor anyone. Even finding people willing to just see the plan can be time consuming and challenging.

3. Most Amway products are purchased (apparently) by IBOs and not sold to customers. Name a real business that sustains itself by having its own workers or salesforce purchase most of the goods. MLM is probably the only business where this occurs. Understandably, it explains why 99%+ of "system" Amway IBOs make nothing or lose money.   Upline might teach Amway's 10 customer rule, but is it actually enforced?

4. For most IBOs, the cost of functions, books, voicemail, and standing orders and other support materials represent the reason why most business building IBOs lose money and it also represents a significant profit for some of the diamonds who sell the materials. BTW, who needs voicemail these days?

5. Not working hard is not necessarily the reason for someone's failure. But conversely, working hard does not equate success in Amway. I would guess that out of those who work hard, it is still a fraction of 1% of hard working IBOs that even attain a significant profit. Doing nothing won't get you anywhere, but in this business, working hard often gets you nowhere as well. It is my informed opinion that the cost of the support materials is the direct reason why so many IBOs lose money, even out of those who work very hard.

I could go on and on, but these are a handful of facts that IBOs and information seekers should be aware of. I welcome differing thoughts and opinions.

Amway Creates Millionaires?

 I keep hearing from some IBOs that they belive that Amway has created more millionaires than any other company in the US. I call BS on that claim. I am not saying that Amway hasn't created any millionaires, obviously, the Amway owners are worth billions of dollars. But what the IBOs are apparently implying is that the diamonds are millionaires. I'm sure there are some diamonds who indeed are millionires, especially if they are tenured diamonds, in particular the double diamonds and higher. But conversely, I believe that many high level diamonds are not millionaires. I believe it is just as common for a diamond to be in debt as it is for a diamond to be living large. I also believe that many diamonds did not accumulate their alleged wealth exclusively from Amway.

The reason why this is an issue is because these big pins will stand on stage and show off excessive wealth and imply that it is their Amway income that pays for these mansions, sports cars, and in some cases, jets. In the US, I attended a function called "Dream Nite" where these kinds of trapping are displayed, to the tune of the song "I wanna be rich". The diamonds would say that you can have what they have, if only you will do what they advise. These functions still go on today and I believe it is now called Winter Conference.

Stanley and Danko's book, "The Millionaire Next Door"
http://www.personalfinanceplaybook.com/2009/08/the-millionaire-next-door/

This book makes some very interesting points which I believe applies to Amway diamonds. I will outline the significant ones and I will comment below:

**Predictably, the data shows that most people who you believe to be very rich are not.

**High net worth individuals, statistically, tend to be people that live within their means. They don’t spend a lot of money. They don’t waste money. They tend to be pretty frugal people.

**The authors point out that most of the richest people you know aren’t driving expensive luxury automobiles. That’s what the people who want everyone to think they’re rich drive. (Like Amway diamonds)

Joe's commentary. The book does say that about 1/3 of millionaires acquired their wealth thru a J-O-B and saved and invested, but did mention that many millionaires were also business owners, such as a pest control company, etc. But based on the points made by the book above, I can see where it is likely that diamonds portray a wealthy lifestyle as a recruitment tactic, when the reality is they may be living very middle class lifestyles off stage, or may even be in debt. I have seen evidence of diamonds having their homes foreclosed and being in debt (Ruth Carter's book: Amway: Behind the Smoke and Mirrors). Recently, there was also a report that a WWDB Triple Diamond filed for bankruptcy. The report indicated that the diamond could not make his mortgages, or something to that tune. Odd, because when I was in WWDB, some of the upline leaders said diamonds paid cash for everything because paying interest to the bank wasn't very smart.   Either the diamonds are lying or they are hypocrites, or both.

My question is why IBOs continue to make up these claims? Try googling millionaire or Amway millionaire. There is nothing to indicate that Amway was responsible for creating the "most millionaires" of any US company. If this were true, wouldn't Amway state it on their website? If someone finds any veracity about this claim, inform me and I will post it.  Try looking at AI.  You'll find the answer interesting.  LOL

Future Amway Retiree Or Quitter?

 Check out this blog post from 2010 from an Amway and WWDB IBO. He is talking about retiring and now it is the year 2026 and he quit more than a dozen years ago.  But you can see all the language that is being parroted by this IBO.   I get that he wants to better his family, but that's how many prospects get sucked in stay in until the light goes on and they wake up and see the light.

http://expeditionoftruths.com/2010/10/18/1-year/


"Well we are coming up to Free Enterprise Day’s in Portland this weekend and with that I’ve come up to my one year anniversary. I’ve also passed the one year anniversary of this blog and where I started out with it. I started it while being a guest at Free Enterprise Day’s supporting Lindsay in what I had originally thought was something completely stupid, something illegal, something that was going to drive a wedge between us and our marriage. Turns out it was quite the opposite.

There is nothing wrong with a healthy scepticism and boy did I have a lot of “health” scepticism. After spending 5 months of doing some actual research, checking out the Amway site, Better Business Bureau, Checking the history of the company, Industry Canada, and yeah even checking out all the negative blogs out there, I came to the conclusion there was nothing wrong with this business and what it stood for. One of the biggest things that really drew me to business was the environmental stewardship this company stood on and I thought I could get behind that and have no problems promoting those great products. It was however the World Wide Dreambuilders that really intrigued me and instead of driving a wedge between our marriage it has helped solidify it even stronger than it was last year. How the heck could a business do that? Cause it’s founded on good core traditional values such as marriage, relationships, personal growth and living debt free. Not bad values if I do say so.

So I say one year because it’s one year when I joined my wife and we became united together and made a decision together to actually build this. Since then we’ve achieved some great milestones and have had some set backs, as with anything in life. We’ve been able to kill off a HUGE amount of consumer debt that we would have still had to this day if it were not for the great coaches, mentors we have. We’ve been able to ride the example our coaches have set out and we are pretty much right on track with where they are and that’s just the power of duplication. I’ve retired my wife so that she never has to give her 1st best to another man ever again. We will be able to raise our kids never having to know what a daycare or day home looks like. Not to offend anyone however that’s not how we want to raise our kids, we’d much rather instil our own values and be there every step of the way.

Looking forward to the future we are pumped to hit Double Eagle Ruby late next year at which time I’ll be stepping away from my job so that I never have to work for another man’s dream and give my 1st best to them. I know that we will work hard at this so that my kids will always have me at home when they need me and not have to wait for me to come home from work. I look forward to the days that we can take our kids out to the ski hill during the week day and not the weekend when it’s jam packed. I look forward to seeing my parents with the kids anytime we want instead of a set amount of vacation time or trying to stretch out a long weekend. There are so many things we look forward to in our second year in business and we know because of the great examples before us we will actually achieve them.

Now please don’t misunderstand me, these are our goals and things we want to achieve. I’m in no way saying you have to build this business. I’ve chosen this vehicle to obtain our goals and the vision we have set out for our family. You don’t have to agree with me and that’s perfectly fine. I only hope that you have a vehicle out there that will allow you to 100% achieve whatever it is you have set out for you and your family.

Here’s to year #2!"

Diamonds Are Forever?

 I've seen some interesting discussion and banter about how a diamond pin is like winning a gold medal. That you don't get it taken away from you later even if you don't qualify anymore. The discussion also flowed as to where they mentioned that former US President Jimmy Carter is still addressed as Mr. President. Or that someone with a Superbowl ring can be addressed as a Superbowl champion. While I agree with that to some degree, I think the issue of diamond or former diamond is significant and different from former President Carter or a former Superbowl Champion. Terry Bradshaw or Joe Montana don't parade around as if they just won the Superbowl last year.

The diamond pin is a significant achievement for sure. Seems that it's even harder to achieve in North America due to the company name reputation which was soured by unethical IBO behavior.  I don't know of more than a few new diamonds emerging in the last twenty five years or so in the US. But if say a diamond qualified in 1988 and never qualified again, how would you as an Amway IBO feel about paying to see this diamond speak function after function and how many would continue to buy standing orders from a guy who may have achieved diamond 25 years ago and never again? Would the audiences be "fired up" to see these speakers? I find this ironic also, because many Amway defenders like to criticize Amway critics for having an outdated experience. Well, conversely, a one time diamond would be basically the same thing. If not, then Joecool should command the respect of a 4000 PV Eagle since that was my highest level.

I actually have no issue with Amway allowing the achiever to carry their highest pin as a recognized achievement, but I do believe that those who use their former pin status to exploit and profit from new IBOs and prospects should be stopped. I know I would not have been so excited attending a function where the keynote speaker went diamond for 6 months a decade ago and was no longer qualified. Else, by upline's definition, he will teach me to go diamond and fall apart? I believe there are fewer North American diamonds now than twenty to twenty five years ago. Some diamonds resigned and some outright quit. So much for residual/passive income. Obviously if these things existed, then nobody would quit or walk away from residual income.

BTW, an article on an Amway Corporate website says this about passive income:
"Passive income is a term we do not permit distributors to use and it’s not a term the Corporation uses. In our business, there is no such thing as doing no work, and expecting money to still come in.” Link:
http://blogs.amway.com/answers/2010/11/02/unwelcome-words/#comments

Still think there's a free ride at the end of the tunnel?

Groupthink?

 http://scamadvocates.com/164-Amway.html

Other November 27 2011

I have read all of these posts. Interesting that everyone who supports Amway cannot spell very well. Lots of typos and grammatical errors in here by those who jump up and down reciting Amway's many virtues. It is a scam and a groupthink phenomenon of staggering proportions. From a psychological perspective, Amway does its best to separate people from those who would challenge its legitimacy and operations. This is not unlike how Hitler or any other leader would silence opponents or dissidents by having them "removed" from the equation. Same thing goes here, Amway teaches people to ignore and remove obstacles and people who challenge the system, even if said challenges are completely rational and offered by people with the IBO's best interest in mind. It hits IBO's in soft spots for family, friends, and freedom (the 3 F's), and it entices them to focus on emotional reasoning rather than very cognitive-based, rational dissection of information.

Amway IBO's are taught emotionalism, not rationalism. From a business perspective, it is a farce. IBO's are no entrepreneurs, as they wear the collars of their uplines. Over and over, I have been told to do as my uplines say. What if my upline is a total moron and I have a law degree and an MBA?? I'm supposed to follow these uplines?? According to the system, yes, the uplines' words are paramount. So no, IBO's are not entrepreneurs and do not gain any real experience. IBO is a fancy name for distributor, pure and simple.

I had the opportunity to meet a number of "diamonds" and "emeralds" recently, all of whom had either left the business to get real jobs or were still struggling bringing in about $30,000 per year. Many of them are posting massive losses, and by the way, the IRS does not consider pro-suming OR tickets to a convention (to hear Yager scream at you) to be business expenses. Good luck trying to recover those losses. It is a pyramid scheme simply because mathematically and considering the law of averages, a downline cannot really earn more than his upline. It just doesn't happen - it's a nice idea, but it doesn't happen. I worked through multiple scenarios with a friend, trying to see how I could out-earn my upline, and we found several variables that would keep that from happening.

Finally, on a personal level, this Amway monkey business cost me a great friendship, an IBO who decided that taking a chance on some crazy dream was more important than those who loved him most. I think he will continue prospecting and pushing "the plan" until there isn't anyone left. If you know someone in Amway or who is thinking seriously about it, you need to realize that they will soon be lost. Amway people are very much like crack users (very similar psychopathology, actually), and they will choose Amway over you, their family, their friends, and anything that gets in the way.

What Matters?

 Check out this blog, written by a WWDB IBO named Shaun. Shaun seems like a nice guy and all, but I think his way of thinking may have been negatively affected by upline teaching. He is saying the Superbowl isn't that important and that he will be spending time with family. And I agree! In the big picture of things, the Superbowl is just a game. Sure, one of the biggest events of the year, but when it's said and done, it still is just a game. I mean if you had to choose between an important family matter and a game, there's not much choice.

See "Shaun's" post: http://expeditionoftruths.com/2011/02/06/super-bowl-what/

An excerpt: Sports are there for our enjoyment and there is nothing wrong with that, but when it comes between spending quality time with my wife or soon to be kid, that’s where I’ll draw a line. I think if people cared more about their family life instead of the damn football maybe there would be less divorce, maybe there would be less fighting, maybe less family pain? Who knows, I don’t have the answers but I can tell you it would be a start that’s for sure

The interesting aspect of this blog post you see, is that Shaun's upline leaders were the same ones I had as an IBO. We were told things like never miss a function, unless it was for a funeral - your funeral. Or we should attend ALL meetings and functions. All means all, what don't you understand about that? Some folks ended up missing or cancelling important family events to be able to attend Amway functions. IBOs skip church and important church events for Amway meetings.

I wonder what will happen if Shaun's anniversary falls on the same weekend as a major function? What about a child's birthday? Or your kid's hockey games? I have a strange feeling that it's perfectly okay to reschedule or miss something like that if it's for an Amway function or meeting. I wonder what Shaun will tell his upline or downline when they have family events conflicting with an Amway/WWDB function? If you truly value your family as he is saying, then you would miss the Amway WWDB function if there is a conflict with family matters. Not reschedule them. I have heard many IBOs justify missing church or cancelling or rescheduling family outings because of business meetings. Where's the vertical alignment then?

So what really matters? Your family or that next Amway/WWDB function?

Marriage Testimonial?

 http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/will-amway-make-you-annoying/comment-page-12/#comment-92192

■DoAsISay on January 8th, 2012 9:31 pm
I finally decided to search the web after being out of Amway now since February 2011. I was hesitant to do so because I had been told not to so many times by my uplines that there is negative on the internet even about Mother Teresa. That was the “line” that they used to trick me into not doing my research. I am a college graduate with a bachelors degree in accounting and I was taught to always research a company to learn more about them if you are going to be involved with them. Anyways, I am glad that I did because I now realize that I am not the only one who disagrees with Amway and their approaches to “the business”.

A little more background about my situation which I’m sure is not unique to many others who have been in Amway. My girlfriend and I were introduced to this business by a friend of my girlfriend and her husband. From the presentation that was shown to me I thought that it sounded VERY easy to do. I was told that I only needed 3 friends out of my 200 contacts in my phone to want to save money and make money at the same time. That was the first lie that I later found out. First of all, we didnt save any money. We threw away over $7000 and saw under $300 return. How exactly am I saving money? Secondly, IF, IF you get (trick) 3 friends to signed up, you have alot more work to do than that. Try 50 people and by the time u get 50 people involved, 48 of those will have quit once they finally realize that you took advantage of them and weren’t straight forward with them.

So Time went on and I hung around and observed the behaviors of people in Amway and how they talked. I said to myself, I want to be nothing like these people. They all sounded the same to me and it was just a little weird. Finally I realize that they have all been brainwashed how to think, how to spend their money, who they spend their time with, and how they spend their time. Amway with the help of the “EDUCATION” has completely taken control of the lives of many, many naive, weak minded, gullible, ignorant, or too trusting (you fill in the blank) individuals who worship their upline like they are God. Sure I thought it was cool that I knew a millionaire and got to hang out at his house and all, but Im not going to empty my bank account for anyone! How about this line…”You don’t make money FROM your friends when they get involved, Your making money WITH your friends”. WHAT?!? Last time I checked anyone you sponsor in the business, you collect their business volume from the stuff they buy and get a kickback from those purchases. I believe that’s called making money FROM your friends. They have another sneaky tactic that they use to conceal the truth. “You’re not making money from your friends, Amway is paying you for driving volume to their website. Ok, Yeah that’s still making money from your friends. Im not an idiot and your blender of words and phrases don’t have any effect on me.

Back to November 2010, I got married to my girlfriend I was in the business with and shortly after she became an Ambot as I’ve heard people refer to it. In February 2011, i had enough of it and decided to cut my loses and get out. My wife didn’t share the same thoughts and feelings though because she had been soaking in every last drop of the expensive “Education” we were receiving. Up until the point of me getting out of the business since I had known her, we NEVER had an argument. We were inseparable and much in love. That all changed as time progressed. We started disagreeing and this horrible person came out of her as I never seen before. She physically hit me on 3 occasions and we would fight, mostly her, as I like to be calm and collective. I rather reason things out by gathering the facts and explaining my perspective. Her reasoning went out the door with her mind because everything out of her mouth was something about the business.

I spent many nights home alone waiting for her to get back from those stupid waste of time meetings. Eventually in October I had enough. We got in another fight and she asked me to leave, so I did! Now supposedly when a woman says leave, that means dont leave in translation, but I took it at face value and left. We are currently separated and in the process of filing for a dissolution. I never thought Amway could destroy a marriage like that, but I’ve read so many sad stories where has done just that. Like I said, I’m sure my story isn’t a unique one, but I just wanted to share in hopes that I can TRULY HELP people steer clear of this plague. Not only will it empty your bank account, waste time you could be living your life and enjoying the company of family and true friends, it will destroy your relationships with the ones you love. These people that were in our business call themselves Christians, yet they can easily let a marriage be destroyed and not even flinch. Greed and lies are all I see in these people!

I would like to sit my wife down and show her some information so maybe, just maybe she will snap out of it, but I feel like she is so programmed at this point that I won’t be able to get her to read it. If anybody actually reads my entire story (I know its long) and has any advice on getting her out let me know. I got nothing to lose at this point since I’ve pretty much lost the love of my life.