The Symbiotic Relationship?

 Over my Amway and blogging experience, I have come to a conclusion which I will stand by. And this, in my informed opinion, is a significant problem with the Amway opportunity. The Amway owner, Rich Devos acknowledged this issue back in 1983 in his "directly speaking" tape and unfortunately, nothing apparently substantial was ever done and therefore, the problem exists today.

The Amway opportunity is one part of the issue, with the tools systems being the other prong. Over the years, the Amway opportunity and the tools systems have formed a symbiotic relationship. It is as if Amway needs the system and the system needs Amway. What I mean is that Amway provides the opportunity, and then the system uses the opportunity to sell the system. In the meantime, the system leaders teach 100 PV, product loyalty, and do most if not all of the new IBO recruiting. Amway benefits as the system teaches movement of PV whether by sales or self-consumption, and new IBO recruitment, and the system leaders benefit by having a captive audience to sell their cds, books, seminars, voicemail, and website fees.

A conflict of interest occurs when uplines tell their new IBOs that they "need" to attend a certain function, or that they "need" standing order to succeed. The upline is smart enough not to say the system is "required", but certainly, they will put a defacto requirement by saying things such as nobody has ever succeeded without the system, but you can try to be the first, or they may say the system is optional, but so is success. Or someone may say so and so diamond (insert) name is a multi-millionaire and he advocates the system, but you can go against his advice if you think you know better.  On the surface, you'd almost have to be nuts to avoid the system after hearing stuff like that.

The bigger problem is that these upline leaders will tell you that you basically cannot succeed without these tools, but at the same time, the more tools you buy, the more profit these uplines make. Some Amway apologists will justify this by saying a college professor may sell his own books to his students. But this is not the same thing. A college professor may spend years researching to write that one book. He will be teaching his expertise that is written in the book. When you attend seminars or listen to cds, you do not have one expert guiding you with clear documentation on how they succeeded. You have very general generic experiences coming from various speakers who may or may not have any common background with IBOs. Thus, these upline leaders will profit from their downline IBO volume and also from tools that they advise downline to purchase regardless of downline success or progress in the business.

As evidence of these bad practices by upline, consider this. If upline truly has "valuable" information that would help you succeed, they would get that information to you in whatever means they could. Either by email, Facebook, twitter, text message, MP3, YouTube or whatever. Why would they withhold trade secrets if they really wanted your success? Has it ever occurred to IBOs that maybe uplines don't want your success? Maybe it is why you must pay for any piece of advice or support you receive. Maybe upline is perfectly happy with people coming and going as long as there are tool purchases because then there are no new IBOs (platinums and up) to share the tool profits with.

There is a definite conflict of interest with profiting uplines advising you to buy tools. The question is whether you see it or not?

Just A Customer?

 I've been debating with others about the concept of customers. Amway's most prolific defender argues that IBOs are customers and holds the position that there are alot of people who register with Amway simply to be customers. Now I don't know how anyone can possibly make that determination, but regardless of whether it's true or not, these folks are still considered IBOs. I don't want to debate the legal ramifications about the 1979 FTC ruling and the 70& rule, although the spirit of the rule was to prevent IBOs from buying their bonus. in the 2016 FTC ruling against Herbalife, the FTC said sales to distributors do not count as retail sales and required Herbalife to changes their operations because of this rule.

Amway apologists apparently contend that IBOs who purchase and then resell to downline are meeting the sales requirements and the downline are customers. Okay, let's go with that. But wait, IBOs do not buy and then resell to their downline. IBOs order directly from Amway do they not? If IBOs order directly from Amway, their upline gets some volume credit for downline purchases but the upline doesn't buy and then resell anything to downline. So, are IBOs actually making any sales to non-IBOs, save for sympathetic friends and family?

If in fact, IBOs are not selling their goods, and are primarily self-consuming them, it means that most of the upline bonus is basically generated from the pockets of the downline. I believe the tools business is a product pyramid as only IBOs are buying standing orders and attending functions. The lack of selling Amway products to the public would put the Amway business opportunity in pretty much the same category. I wonder what the FTC would rule today if that were the case? I wonder what the FTC would rule on the tools systems as it is today?

Something to think seriously about. If you are an Amway business owner, and you are selling little or nothing, where do you think your bonus comes from? It either comes from your own pockets, or it comes from taking advantage of your downline, who then pony up a portion of your bonus from their pockets. In a system such as this, the only way to maximize your bonus is to recruit as many downlines as possible. Because the more people you can leverage, the more bonus you can get. The problem with this system is that people realize they aren't making money, and that paying in some cases, ridiculous high prices for "prestigious" soap and vitamins is not worth it, and they quit. When these folks lose their Amway dream of mansions and jets, they somehow lose their desire to keep making purchases.

If former IBOs kept on buying Amway goods, then Amway sales would climb pretty much every year as the former IBO's purchases coupled with current IBO purchases should keep going up, not down. But that's not really the case is it? In what business can the employees or company owners be the primary customers and prosper. The answer is none and Amway is not an exception.

Avoid The Name "Amway"?

 I often find it comical that to this day, I still see people who like to hide the Amway name when recruiting others. I believe this tactic has been a major factor in why Amway has a bad reputation in North America. When I was recruited, I was lied to as well. I was invited to a "beer bust" only to find out it was an Amway meeting. I went home that night thinking WTH was that? They lie to us and then expect us to join the business. And to this day, I believe this practice continues. They might use another name such as "Liberty Marketing" or "Worldwide Group" to mask the opportunity they are pitching. My question is why?

Over the years, IBOs have tried all kinds of ways to disguise the Amway opportunity. In the past, it was network marketing, e-commerce, online shopping mall and the corporation even changed Amway in North America to "Quixtar". Sadly, the name change to quixtar did not work, probably because the same tactics were used when recruiting new IBOs into Quixtar. Amway eventually changed the name back to Amway. I believe this bad reputation in North America is why Amway, in years past, enjoyed the most business growth overseas where people either do not know the Amway name, and likely because there haven't been enough former Amway/AMO victims to soil the name in other countries. As markets mature and people get to know about Amway, we se what is happening now. Amway revenues have plummeted from 11.8 billion in 2013 to 8.8 billion (global) in 2016. That's a serious decline!

So IBOs, how can you expect someone to trust you and do business with you if you are deceitful or outright lie about the Amway opportunity? Are you ashamed of the Amway name? If you are ashamed or scared to drop the "A bomb" on people, how will you ever be able to show any plans, let alone sponsoring anyone into the business? My former sponsor used to tell our group that the biggest challenge is overcoming the name Amway. To be fair, Amway the corporation is not the reason for the bad reputation. It is the unethical and bad behavior of IBOs that lead to a bad reputation but on the other hand, it's not the like Amway police have been cracking down and visibly taking action against the violators so Amway is also guilty to some degree.

Conversely, people who come right out and talk about Amway are unlikely to net any decent results either because of the past reputation. It's an almost no-win situation for IBOs and prospects. For these reasons, I believe it to be nearly impossible to build and maintain a group, especially if your goal is to reach diamond. It seems as if more diamonds have left Amway in recent years than there have been new diamonds. I believe this to be spot on for WWDB, my former LOS. So IBOs, are you ashamed of Amway? If not, why are there still so many IBOs using trickery and deception in recruiting prospects?

If you avoid using the Amway name, what are you ashamed of?

The Sad Reality?

 Comment left on Happy Franchisee blog:

http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/will-amway-make-you-annoying/

mary on December 5th, 2011 10:35 am

My husband and I were involved in the Amway/Quixtar business for 13 years. We worked very hard, attended all the meetings, reached the direct level, and made very little money. Thank God for Dateline. We were convinced that this was a reputable business,the people were great….so we thought. Then we found out the truth. The majority of the money that was told to us was suppose to be on the products and sponsoring /helping others,l was actually made on the books,tapes and seminars. You know they tell you that the speakers take the time from their families to give back to the business. Totally false ! The speakers are paid to perform. That is how they make money. Please believe me when I say that you are not being stupid just convinced by people you trust that you will make money. We went to our sponsors and told them we know how they are making money. We watched Dateline , years ago and still could not believe how we were tricked. It is sad that people will continue to believe this opportunity will produce millionaires. Most of the people in our upline were sued by other people and eventually went on to another scam. I know you will find this hard to believe. I did too. I am now reading all this information and at one time felt the same way. Again you are not stupid… just misinformed. We worked long hours, left our children with sitters, argued with our family , and listened to our upline to not believe the internet. If you make money at this business it will be on the books, tapes, seminars and speaking. We could not comprehend how our upline could have lied to us… they were good people that also got caught up in the lies. It is really difficult to listen to someone speak highly of this business, I know I would defend the products and the system too. I also thought I knew what was going on but I did not know the truth. Find another way to make money you, will be glad you found out now.

Uoline - The Root Of Many Evils?

 Over the many years of Amway's existence, their reputation in the US and North America in general, has tanked. And it's not all due to Amway the corporation, but rather Amway IBO leaders who teach and condone unethical behavior. Of course, I don't know of any significant measures that Amway has taken to discipline some of their wayward IBOs, but that's another story for another day.

During my blogging career, I've seen young people who were discouraged from attending college so they could build an Amway business. I've personally seen people go bankrupt and lose their homes because they followed the advice of their all-knowing uplines. Sure, people have some responsibility for their actions but I feel as if some of these kinds of actions by some IBOs and IBO leaders is predatory and focuses on people who can least afford to funnel money into the business and the leech teaching systems such as WWDB or Network 21.

I've seen ridiculous product claims such as people claiming that bottled water could cure ills and make you athletically superior. Of course, this water costs about $50 a case when you could buy 10 cases of water at Walmart for the same price. They claim superiority in their vitamins without unbiased scientific evidence to support their claims. Perhaps that is why the Amway vitamins seemingly are consumed nearly exclusively by IBOs themselves.

Despite claims by Amway supporters and IBOs that things are changing in Amway for the better, there is plenty of evidence that nothing has changed. Outrageous income claims. I thought the Dateline show exposed some crazy stuff with an IBO leader claiming that people could eanr $250K per year with a part-time effort, but then my friend Rocket finds this gem with an IBOAI member and crown ambassador in WWDB/Amway claiming you can make hundreds of thousands of dollars a month: http://rocketsrants.blogspot.com/2011/09/amway-guys-they-sure-say-stuff.html

I wonder if Brad Duncan himself even makes that kind of money. Ironically, his triple diamond brother wasn't even close to that when his bankruptcy papers were exposed a few years ago.

So, to Amway prospects and apologists, the Amway corporation itself may be perfectly legal and clean, but the root of many evils comes from Amway uplines and AMO leaders. It is for this very reason that many get turned off just at the mention of the Amway name. Amway can stop them, but will they?

IBOs And Taxes?

 I came across this blog and while I've seen similar posts by Amway business owners, this one was interesting because of the detail and the passion the blog author has. In a nutshell, he lost money in Amway but calls it success because after he received his tax refund, he's now claiming to have a net profit. It's amazing what these Amway/WWDB leaders can get people to believe.

https://transparencyofadreamer.wordp...sing-in-amway/

Below are excerpts. The blog owner claims to have made a net gain due to a tax refund. He doesn't explain how he arrived at that refund but apparently his losses in Amway lowered his tax liability for whatever income tax was already withheld from either his paycheck (job) or from paying estimated taxes in advance for a business or some other venture. It's quite scary and illustrates how some people can hang on in Amway for so long even when suffering losses. The IBO's are programmed to "think" they actually made money!

Based on what they have taught me, even though I barely had any increase in my overall organization (ie: I was pathetically lazy, didn’t put any work in and barely increased the size of organization – #sadface) I STILL DID NOT LOSE MONEY!

2013 total Cost Run Down:
Communikate: $443.40
Digital Delivery: $300.00
Premier Membership: $599.40
Major Functions: $595.00
Major Function Hotels: $750.00
Business Support Materials: $240.00
Total Business Cost: $2927.80

Lets bring it all together here, folks.

Total Amway Payout in 2013: $2112.36
Total Cost To Run Business: -$2927.80
= $-815.44

Just like I said last year – “Oh No! I’ve been scammed! I’ve lost money! My upline lied to me! I didn’t put in any work to sponsor anyone this last year and its everyone’s fault but mine! The business doesn’t work! What a total scam!!!”

Hold on now Mr. Negative – Due to running my own business in a country that incentivises business owners to run their own business I received tax benefits that entitled me to a refund for the 2013 year in the amount of $2409.76. Lets do this again, shall we?

Total Amway Payout in 2013: $2112.36
Total Cost To Run Business: -$2927.80
Total Tax Refund For 2013: $2409.76
= $1594.32

So, as I wrap up I hope I made my point very clear – you will not lose money running your own Amway Business powered by World Wide Dreambuilders…. IF you are diligent with your finances, if you don’t blow your budget your coach sets with you. You WILL lose money running your own Amway Business powered by ANY training system IF you don’t have a budget, if you don’t ask for help to set a budget, if you ignore your budget etc.

If your potential sponsor is affiliated with WWDB and is doing what they are taught, you should be educated on some of the numbers I shared above in regards to cost for access to your training and mentorship system.

A Viable Business?

 Over the years I have been debating with Amway supporters, I cannot see what is so great about the Amway opportunity. Are some of these Amway defenders that stupid or dense that they truly believe that a business where one out of a few hundred people might make a profit and most of the remaining IBOs will lose money is a good opportunity? I'm not talking about people who sign up and "do nothing". Many IBOs sign up and put in a great deal of time, effort and money, only to find out that the system simply does not work (especially in the US) and they make a business decision to quit and/or to do something else.

Of course there are some people who make money in Amway. If nobody made money, then the opportunity would cease to exist. But it is basically exploitation of the downline that accounts for upline success. Amway's admission that sales to non-IBOs are low, confirms this. Thus, certain upline make their income from their downline's PV volume, and on tool purchases. I mean even a lottery has winners. Even Ponzi schemes and other questionable opportunities have some winners. This is not to suggest that Amway in not legal. Amway is perfectly legal, but the way the opportunity is set up, those who profit, primarily do so at the expense of their trusted downline.

There are no groups that I know of where all the IBOs can win and earn a profit. I would guess that there might be a few rogue groups who only focus on retail sales, and while these groups can be profitable as a group, they are few and far between. This is because most IBOs fall under an LOS such as WWDB, BWW, LTD or N21, and these groups all seemingly focus on recruiting of new IBOs. Yes, they may sprinkle in some suggestions about selling goods, but generally speaking, their "training" materials consist of motivation speeches, feel good stories (whether true or not), and the theme of never quitting while continuing to purchase more tools.

Some upline have the nerve to start teaching downline that their Amway business is not about making money, but to save your marriage, make you a nicer person, or some other diversion to make you forget that you are losing money month after month after month. Some groups even mix in religion and politics into their functions and meetings. As far as I can see, the typical business building IBO signs up, gets some of the tools and attends a few functions, and finds that the products are hard to sell because they are not priced competitively with other retailers, and that a damaged reputation is nearly impossible to overcome. These IBOs realize they are not going anywhere, and they walk away, chalking up the losses as a life lesson. But apparently, many uplines who lied and deceived in the past are continuing to do so today, often just revising history for their benefit (i.e. lying about making any profit on tools).

Many IBOs, prospects, information seekers and critics read this blog. My question is very simple. What is so great about the Amway opportunity? For most, it is just a bad use of time and money. While some may exist, I don't know of a single person who "did the work once" and sat back collecting barrels of Amway money while sipping Mai Tais on the beaches of Jamaica. I see crown ambassadors working as hard today as they did many years ago. Diamonds losing homes to foreclosures, a prominent diamond in bankruptcy proceedings, and a hoard of WWDB diamonds apparently selling off mansions that they allegedly paid for in cash. (It is quite possible that their lifestyles are simply not sustainable).

Where is the benefit in the business for the typical IBO? Just as there are some diamonds, there are lottery winners. Displaying a lottery winner doesn't make it prudent to spend your money on lottery tickets. Displaying a diamond's lifestyle doesn't make Amway a good opportunity. While Amway is a business and not a game of chance, the results of either, sadly are eerily similar - that is a few winners and millions of non-winners.

What is so great about the Amway opportunity? I don't see it.