Buy From Yourself?

Reporting this story with a caveat:  The new FTC ruling against Amway and WWG (WWDB) and LTD will prevent this kind of teaching, if the FTC actually enforces their ruling.  In the past the Amway defenders would cite the 1979 FTC ruling on Amway is if it were some kind of validation that Amway was legitimate as is.  The ruling by the FTC last month is a stark contrast to what we heard in the past:

Buy From Yourself:

As an IBO, our group was often told that selling products were not that important. Just buy from yourself and get others to do the same. When prospecting, you ask if someone likes selling and if they say no, you say "great, this business is perfect for you". Or if someone says they like selling, you say: "great, this business is perfect for your". Keep in mind that a business exists to sell a product or service for a profit. I believe Amway folks forget about this fact.

People naturally do not like selling stuff to people, thus the adaptation to being your own best customer or buying from your own store. While it's fine to support your own business, it is not true that a McDonald's owner would never eat at a Burger King or other sill claims. Do you believe that a McDonald's owner would only eat food sold at his own restaurant? I guarantee you that isn't true. I know someone who owns a very popular pizza franchise, and she says she never eats at her own restaurant because she's sick of eating pizza. You make money selling pizza so you can have otherl options.

Another thing that Amway IBOs are probably not aware of is that buying from yourself and getting others to do the same without real sales to actual customers is running a illegal pyramid scheme. Another MLM company Herbalife, was investigated by the FTC and while they were not shut down, they were fined and had to change their operations because the FTC found that they lacked sales to legitimate customers. Herbalife is now forced to track retail sales with a compliance monitor watching their moves. There are stories of Herbalifers trying to fudge sales and Herbalife higher ups encouraging people to sign up as preferred customers instead of business builders. That suggests to me that Herbalife is basically admitting they are a sham. If they had legitimate demand, they would run a campaign to recruit more business builders who would in turn, sell products to customers who want their products.

So, Amway IBOs, are a majority of your PV sales to yourself or to customers? Are your customers your family and friends who are somewhat reluctantly buying products from you, if at all? If you are just buying and using your own products, you are actually not entitled to an Amway performance bonus. On the bright side, it seems that Amway just ignores this requirement and pays bonuses anyway. But without legitimate demand, sales and revenues dry up when the markets begin to get saturated. Amway's sales hit a peak at 11.8 billion in 2014 and has gone into a downward spiral since. In 2016, Amway sales dropped 7% to 8.8 billion which was preceded by a dounble digit drop in 2015.

With sales and revenues down, that can only mean there are less sales and volume, therefore there are less Platinums and diamonds that can be supported. But Amway prospects will never know because once you earn diamond recognition, Amway never updates it. Once a diamond, always a diamond, if you will. Thus the leaders that are Bing worshipped on stage might not even be diamonds anymore.

In the end, I write this post to give you food for thought. Too many prospects and IBOs are not aware of these issues but they certainly should be,

Amway Leaders?

 Over the many years of Amway's existence, their reputation in the US and Canada has tanked. And it's not all due to Amway the corporation, but rather Amway IBO leaders who teach and condone unethical behavior. Of course, I don't know of any significant measures that Amway has taken to discipline some of their wayward IBOs, but that's another story. However, it's apparent to me that some Amway leaders really are just not good people. They will do and say anything, even lie to recruits to make a buck off them. They will sell false hopes and dreams to make their living.

During my blogging career, I've seen young people who were discouraged from attending college so they could build an Amway business. I've personally seen people go bankrupt and lose their homes because they followed the advice of their all-knowing uplines. Sure, people have some responsibility for their actions but I feel as if some of these kinds of actions by some IBOs and IBO leaders is predatory and focuses on people who can least afford to funnel money into the business and the leech teaching systems such as WWDB or Network 21. Downlines are taught to trust in their upline and to follow their advice, and to make it worse, the uplines then blame the IBOs for any failures.

I've seen ridiculous product claims such as people claiming that bottled water could cure ills and make you athletically superior. Of course, this water costs about $50 a case when you could buy 10 cases of water at Walmart for the same price. They claim superiority in their vitamins without unbiased scientific evidence to support their claims. Perhaps that is why the Amway vitamins seemingly are consumed nearly exclusively by IBOs themselves. Nobody except IBOs buy the stories and the prices of Amway diamonds.

Despite claims by Amway supporters and IBOs that things are changing in Amway for the better, there is plenty of evidence that nothing has changed. Outrageous income claims. I thought the Dateline show exposed some crazy stuff with an IBO leader claiming that people could earn $250K per year with a part time effort, but then my friend Rocket finds this gem with an IBOAI member and crown ambassador in WWDB/Amway claiming you can make hundreds of thousands of dollars a month: http://rocketsrants.blogspot.com/2011/09/amway-guys-they-sure-say-stuff.html

I wonder if Brad Duncan himself even makes that kind of money. Ironically, his triple diamond brother (Greg) wasn't even close to that when his bankruptcy papers were exposed a few years ago.

So to Amway prospects and apologists, the Amway corporation itself may be perfectly legal and clean, but the root of many evils comes from Amway uplines and AMO leaders. It is for this very reason that many get turned off just at the mention of the Amway name. Amway can stop them, but will they?

More Testimony?

 A blog visitor sent me this email. It might he helpful to some people so I'll post it.

We were part of what im coming to find out as a smaller more unknown team in our region. I’ve run into many Amroids since I first joined until now, and they’ve always seemed to be part of N21 or BWW or WWDB but im not sure if our group was any of those? We were part of something called the UR Association. I believe through some unspoken issues years ago in upline, our group was adopted either to Dexter Yagers organization or from his organization. Its never been fully or properly explained to us. Anyway, my upline always had CDs from multiple organizations teaching systems, and we purchased them all. This was because we partly refused to sign up with URA and partly because we just didn’t have to money for that type of monthly fee. We weren’t on Kate either because of this. When my significant other (SO) and I first joined almost 4 years ago, we were typical for this business; broke, unemployed, and young. We went through the paces or coming out to the meetings as guests for free, attending some product expos, etc, until one day it started costing us as guests (we were still evaluating at the time) to attend the regular open meetings. Foolishly, we figured “well we might as well sign up then!”



Looking back now, all the signs were there for us to see since the start. After we got in, our uplines group slowly fell apart. I don’t believe I’ve ever seen his group grow or be on the rise since I joined. I was told of the glory days just months before of how there were over 100 people in his group attending functions, all the pin levels on his team, the recognitions they’ve received, etc. When we joined and he was on the decline, we thought nothing of it, as it was played off as normal and that “Some Will, Some Wont, So What, Some Where, Six Will, so Stop Whining, and Start Working”. We also attended a major Family Reunion shortly after officially signing up and again, the signs were always there, but we just never noticed. That function that we went to was the largest our upline Diamonds organization was we’d ever see. Our open meetings slowly began getting smaller, and we had to increase ticket costs to “pay for the room”. It went from an open meeting every 2 weeks at $5 to an open meeting once a month at $10. Over the years it started switching locations as well, from one hotel conference room to another, and now it is currently held at a Condo, in the main floors’ lobby room (I believe there is still a cost incurred)



One of the CDs that we were always so “keen” to listen to was one by a young diamond from the US, who built a good portion of his organization in Hawaii and in the western states. He’s young, funny, relatable, and therefore an obvious hit with our young group. Anyway, on his CD he mentions that the only “negative thing that can be found online about Amway is that we allegedly make all our money off books and CDs”. Im loosely paraphrasing, but basically he went on saying “…like that’s a bad thing. Think about it, whats the first thing you do when you are successful at something? Golfing, any sport, a business? Don’t you write a book, cut a CD and go on public speaking events?!” Which of course when twisted around it does seem to make sense, so we never really questioned it. We thought Wow these are totally honest about it! Theres not really much else to write about at this point, like I said earlier, a lot of your blogs were 100% correct about what still goes on. The mind games, what uplines say, whats said at opens, all of it. My SO and I reached a max of I believe 300/400 PV and 200PV respectively. SO had a slightly larger group (we were building it separately at the time) with maybe 5-6 downline at its peak, and I had maximum 2. We’ve been in it for 4 years and have seen no results. Despite having no money for monthly subscriptions to books and CDs, we were core. We tried our best to get the proper 50/150, we always used all the products and promoted it like crazy. We tried contacting all the time, and showed plans whenever we could. We listened, read, attended all functions, were accountable, honest, and the only thing we didn’t have was Kate. But the results were never there. Even with the amount of downline each of us had at our maximum, we still never broke more then 300-400PV. It just wasn’t happening. Since we’ve stopped, I have purchased a new(er) car, 2010 top trim, and with a 1 year delayed gratification goal, we saved enough money for a destination vacation paid for in cash. We spared no expense while we were there and bought all sorts of gifts for our friends and ourselves. We are also planning more trips in this coming year.


There are little details here and there im sure i could mention about the really crazy BS we've been through, but perhaps another time :) we're in a phase right now of not thinking about it or dealing with it.

Thanks for reading!

"Anon"

Paid Consultants?

 Over the years, I have encountered many Amway IBOs, and they often have a common theme. They trust their upline to a fault and in some cases, consider them mentors. Now in a business venture, it might be good to have a mentor or someone to guide you, but in the Amway opportunity, most of the upline mentors make money off those who they mentor. That is a major conflict of interest but IBOs simply fail to see it. Just about any "help" you receive results in compensation for someone upline. Upline should actually be paid consultants with no accountability.

When an IBO sees the plan in a big meeting or function, the speaker will often be built up as a financial guru, and possibly as an expert on how to succeed in Amway. An IBO may hear something about the trail was already blazed by upline and you just need to follow the trail. Don't re-invent the wheel, just copy what upline did. But as I have said many times before, duplication sounds easy and looks good on paper, but in real life, the vast majority of IBOs run into problems that they simply cannot overcome, such as the bad reputation that the Amway name has in the US. Uncompetitive prices for products do not help the cause either. If you don't believe that, go and do an honest price comparison.

What is troubling however, is that IBOs are taught to trust upline and do as they say (defacto requirement), but they are also taught that failure is due to their own shortcomings, even when they do exactly what upline told/advised them. It is also troubling that many uplines will tell their faithful followers that they need to purchase more and more tools (voicemail, cds, seminar tickets). In some cases, an upline may advise their downline to sacrifice basic family needs to buy these tools. I saw some IBOs who were advised to skip meals to buy a cd, or skip paying the mortgage to be able to attend the next big function. One diamond even taught about the foreclosure procedures so people could skip a payment. That same diamond talked about how long you can hold off the electric company before being shut down. The results o this bad advice are devastating for some. I saw some fellow IBOs go bankrupt and/or lose their homes following this advice.

I might also add that as a newer IBO or prospect, you may have heard that "everyone starts at zero", or that it's a level playing field. It is not. As a new IBO, you will likely be in the 100 PV bracket. Since Amway pays out about 31% in bonuses, your upline(s) will split up about 28% in bonuses off your efforts while you get a 3%bonus. That doesn't sound very level to me. In addition, you as an IBO are paying for this privilege when you buy tools.

So each IBO should look at things objectively and see if your upline is actually helping you or simply helping himself by giving you advice that ends up in profit for himself with little or nothing for you.

Winners And Losers?

 One of the things that my Amway upline taught, and I believe is still taught today in various groups is that winners join Amway and losers do not. Or that you were a winner because you were doing something to better your financial future and those who didn't were losers. or broke minded. Of course the upline who said this had no knowledge about those who were not in Amway. Some of them may already have been financially sound or may have been doing something to better their financial future. I'm not sure why these uplines, who promote "positive", had to resort to calling people losers simply because they did not agree that Amway was the greatest thing since sliced bread.

In many games or sporting events, there will be someone or a team that wins the game and someone or a team that loses the game. Losing a game doesn't make you a loser and certainly, a team that wins the game would not say the losing team were losers. Can you imagine a sports team's coach taking the podium after a game and saying his team won because the other team was a bunch or broke minded gutless losers? That would never happen, yet we see that frequently in the Amway/IBO world. The owner of Amway, Rich DeVos had once said in a recorded message that just because people do not agree with you (paraphrased) about Amway, does not make them losers and that IBOs should not call people losers.

In all of this, people's jobs are also criticized. That a job stand for "just over broke" or "jackass of the boss" and other blurbs. Many IBO's goals and dreams consist of ditching their job so they can sleep all day and live a life of luxury. Ironically, it is most IBO's jobs that continue to produce income so they can pay their bills and feed their family. It is also an IBO's job that funds their Amway and training expenses such as product purchases and functions and voicemail, etc. Without having a job, most people could not even join Amway or pay for any tools. Sadly, most IBOs won't make any money in Amway either, and will have to continue to work at their jobs. I do not believe that someone earning an honest living working a job is a loser. Ironically, the folks calling people losers are often not even netting a profit from their Amway business!

Yes, in this business or the sports world, there will be winners and there will be losers. The question is whether you are the one who is allowed to be the judge of who is and who isn't. I would also suggest that IBOs are completely shutting down potential future business by their behavior. What if I went to a store to purchase something but the item was not available on that particular day, so I don't purchase anything and leave. As I leave, the store owner says I am a loser for not buying something there. Will I go back? Very unlikely. If an IBO truly sees themselves as a store owner, all prospects should be seen as potential business, whether future or present. If your upline tells you that people not interested are losers, you should ask him how much cash he's netting from Amway. You might be surprised at the answer!

The Scam?

 Before I signed up to join Amway, I was invited to see "the plan" at an open meeting. The speaker seemed to make sense about running a business to make money and how you and make money and save money by being involved with Amway. Except that he misrepresented the Amway experience. The speaker said you save 30% on goods by shopping with Amway, which is a lie. You can save 30% shopping with Amway if you pay the distributor price instead of suggested retail, except that the distributor price is much more expensive (on average_ than paying for the same or similar products at a retailer like Costco to Walmart. Anyone who does an honest price comparison can easily see that this is true. Walmart buys from the manufacturer and adds their markup and sells to you. Amway does the same, but they "generously" pay a 30+ % bonus to IBOs and that bonus is included in the prices thus Amway has to charge much more than a Walmart or Costco to cover the bonuses.

Then the "scam" comes in. The diamonds and bigshots in Amway say "anyone" can go diamond, get rich and walk the beaches of the world while getting wealthy beyond belief. And all you need to do it subscribe to their teaching system consisting of voicemail, books, CDs and seminars/functions. Join and subscribe and do what you're advised, and you're nearly assured of success. It's a lie. There is ZERO evidence that the system helps anyone succeed. Upline will say everyone who succeed is on the system. While that might be true, there are millions of people on the same system who fail. It's like saying everyone who wins the lottery has a ticket while disregarding the millions of people who get on the system and fail. People fail because the Amway compensation plan is designed that way. The multi-level compensation plan assures a majority of failures.

So, the Amway business has people joining in the hopes of riches, but they are basically chasing the end of a rainbow. You can see it and chase it, but you will never get it. Looks at the diamonds in the US. Some of them died while still working and some got divorced. But the vast majority of Amway diamonds are the same old diamonds from the 1990's and there are very few new diamonds. If the system actually worked, new diamonds would be churning out regularly, but they aren't. And they can't right now because Amway sales from 2014 to now is down about 25%. Amway went from 11.8 billion to 8.8 billion last Amway fiscal year. Without new virgin ground to exploit, Amway is saturating and shrinking.

Overall Amway is a scam in my opinion. They sell false hopes and false dreams under the guise of running a low overhead business and then the diamond turns around and sells useless tools that only help the diamonds. The success is not there. The "fruit on the tree" that some diamonds used to talk about is not there. In my opinion, Amway is just a big scam run by diamonds so they can make their fortunes selling tools. I welcome and dare anyone to prove me wrong.

Amway's Mentors?

 Over the years, I have received various emails from Amway IBOs and prospective Amway IBOs asking for my opinion and advice on whether to join Amway or what I thought about Amway. I never tell anyone directly that they should not join or join, but I offer them my thoughts and experiences and allow them to at least make an informed decision about Amway and the Amway systems such as WWDB, BWW, LTD, Network 21 etal. Many people are not familiar with these systems, and the system leaders are typically diamonds and above and although they do not present actual current credentials, most people assume they are wealthy beyond belief and should be worshipped and given the utmost respect.

However, I have seen chinks in the Armor. I saw a triple diamond file chapter 7 bankruptcy some years ago and lose homes to foreclosure. Another "lesser" diamond in WWDB also lost a home to foreclosure. A very valid question I have is how they can lose homes to foreclosure when they cry out on stage that diamonds pay cash for everything? What is also stunning is that the triple diamond only made $40,000 a month. Now that's a great income but is that what you would think a triple diamond would make from Amway? How can you afford mansions and jets and a fleet of sports cars, paid for in cash, when you earn about the equivalent of minimum wage in the national football league? The answer is you make additional money by selling your downline voicemail, CDs, books and seminar tickets, along with charging them for meetings and other events. More on that to come.

Amway leaders often present themselves as "mentors" but mentors in a pure sense don't make money from the people they mentor. For example, my grandfather teaching me to have character or to be a good man would be mentoring. Someone charging me for voicemail or books and CDs and making money even if I lose my shirt can hardly be considered a mentor. I would say that person is a paid consultant who has no accountability for my results in Amway. As far as I know, no Amway upline has refunded money because you lost your shirt following their advice. I hear stories at times about people losing a lot of money and while they can return seem Amway products, I don't hear many stories about refunds from the "tools scam".

And that's the worst part about the Amway "mentors". They have never been held accountable for the massive numbers of people who have spent money in WWDB, BWW, LTD or Network 21 and didn't make money despite doing everything their "mentors" or upline leaders advised. Also, there is no documented evidence that the system of books and CDs and seminars do anything to help IBOs make money, unless you're selling these materials. My advice to Amway prospects and potential IBOs - Beware of Amway "mentors".  

As a plus, the new FTC ruling against Amway, WWG (WWDB) and LTD will prevent the sale of tools and functions to new IBOs.  This Amway story is going to get interesting going forward.