Integrity? Really?

 I've used to follow the blog of a WWDB IBO named "Shaun". He used to run the blog called "Expeditions Of Truth" http://expeditionoftruths.com/ ***Update*** It appears Shaun is no longer in the Amway business. His blog is gone. He doesn't respond to messages and his twitter account no longer mentions "Amway". He is another former fired up IBO who saw some limited success only to quit and fail.

He seems to think that not only is he in business with people full of integrity, but he also thinks that he is going to retire in November 2011. This is now August 2015. While I think doing business with people of integrity is a good thing, I also know of many successful people in business who are ruthless. So, are Amway people full of integrity or are they just as ruthless as other businesspeople? Does it matter? In my opinion, it doesn't matter except for the fact that WWDB people seem to think that they have integrity filled leaders.

Well, lets look at some of these leaders. Back in the 1990's, the current batch of WWDB leaders swore that nobody made a profit on tools. Nobody knew the truth at the time. We now know that this was a lie. Is this integrity? We know that Greg Duncan was in chapter 7 bankruptcy proceedings. Not paying for your obligations is integrity? We know that Greg Duncan and David Shores had homes foreclosed (Public information). Is that a move filled with integrity? With the tons of money Duncan and Shores make, couldn't they have made an effort to pay off their debts? Where's that integrity that they themselves have probably taught?

If you look at a blog linked to this one "Rocket's Rants", there's a YouTube video of "crown" Brad Duncan telling rank and file IBOs that they can make "hundreds of thousands of dollars" a month. First of all, I wonder if Brad Duncan has achieved this himself, let alone any others? Even if someone had achieved it, it would be illegal or unethical to portray that kind of success as achievable to a prospect. So was Brad acting illegally or unethically? Is that integrity?

Brad Wolgamott used to talk about how WWDB had a low divorce rate. Is it full on integrity for WWDB leaders to separate or divorce when they talk about integrity and how Amway and WWDB saves marriages? What about Dean Kosage? Another divorcee? Are they full of integrity? What say you Shaun Guthrie of WWDB? What about Howie Danzik whose website doesn't mention that he was once married to Susan? Is it integrity to say you built the business as a single when Howie previously built the business with his former wife?

Amway's owner Rich DeVos acknowledged that the "tools" were likely a pyramid scam and Amway did nothing after sales dropped following some attempts to clean it up. Is that an integrity move? I don't know but
it sure seems as if WWDB and Amway have issues where integrity is concerned. What if someone is a complete asshat and decides to join Amway? Does that person suddenly have integrity?

Now there's some food for thought.

IBO Doesn't Understand Taxes?

 I came across this blog and while I've seen similar posts by Amway business owners, this one was interesting because of the detail and the passion the blog author has. In a nutshell, he lost money in Amway but calls it success because after he received his tax refund, he's now claiming to have a net profit. It's amazing what these Amway/WWDB leaders can get people to believe.

https://transparencyofadreamer.wordp...sing-in-amway/

Below are excerpts. The blog owner claims to have made a net gain due to a tax refund. He doesn't explain how he arrived at that refund but apparently his losses in Amway lowered his tax liability for whatever income tax was already withheld from either his paycheck (job) or from paying estimated taxes in advance for a business or some other venture. It's quite scary and illustrates how some people can hang on in Amway for so long even when suffering losses. The IBO's are programmed to "think" they actually made money!

Based on what they have taught me, even though I barely had any increase in my overall organization (ie: I was pathetically lazy, didn’t put any work in and barely increased the size of organization – #sadface) I STILL DID NOT LOSE MONEY!

2013 total Cost Run Down:
Communikate: $443.40
Digital Delivery: $300.00
Premier Membership: $599.40
Major Functions: $595.00
Major Function Hotels: $750.00
Business Support Materials: $240.00
Total Business Cost: $2927.80

Lets bring it all together here, folks.

Total Amway Payout in 2013: $2112.36
Total Cost To Run Business: -$2927.80
= $-815.44

Just like I said last year – “Oh No! I’ve been scammed! I’ve lost money! My upline lied to me! I didn’t put in any work to sponsor anyone this last year and its everyone’s fault but mine! The business doesn’t work! What a total scam!!!”

Hold on now Mr. Negative – Due to running my own business in a country that incentivises business owners to run their own business I received tax benefits that entitled me to a refund for the 2013 year in the amount of $2409.76. Lets do this again, shall we?

Total Amway Payout in 2013: $2112.36
Total Cost To Run Business: -$2927.80
Total Tax Refund For 2013: $2409.76
= $1594.32

So, as I wrap up I hope I made my point very clear – you will not lose money running your own Amway Business powered by World Wide Dreambuilders…. IF you are diligent with your finances, if you don’t blow your budget your coach sets with you. You WILL lose money running your own Amway Business powered by ANY training system IF you don’t have a budget, if you don’t ask for help to set a budget, if you ignore your budget etc.

If your potential sponsor is affiliated with WWDB and is doing what they are taught, you should be educated on some of the numbers I shared above in regards to cost for access to your training and mentorship system.

Failure By Design?

 One of the things my Amway upline always pushed on us was the tools system. While the tools are said to be optional, they are not promoted that way. They were promoted as vital, necessary, almost as if you were insane to try and build an Amway business without tools. Basically, the tools were a defacto requirement. My upline always claimed that nobody ever "made it" without tools. Some Amway defenders insist that the tools work, and that IBOs who were on the system proved it with higher levels of success and product volume. But the tools work for maybe a fraction of 1% of IBOs who try them. The vast majority of people who use tools make nothing or lose money. Similar to a lottery.

IBOs participating in the system (voicemail, book of the month, standing orders, functions, etc) do more PV. I believe this is true, but it is true, only because once the upline can convince you to participate in the system, then that same IBO is also convinced that they should or must do 100 PV as part of the deal. People who aren't convinced that the system is vital, subsequently do not purchase or sell as much PV because they have not been convinced that moving PV will make them successful or wealthy.

Critics and Amway supporters have debated this issue for years, but clearly, the evidence supports my position. Why? Because if there was a true demand for Amway products because of their quality and/or value, then there wouldn't be such a steep drop off in movement of volume when an IBO becomes a former IBO. Many, probably most former IBOs never buy a single Amway product once they leave the business. If the products had true quality and value as Amway supporters claim, why don't people continue to purchase 100 PV per month when they quit? Because they never wanted or needed all of that product in the first place? If former Amway IBOs continued to but products, Amway sales would continue to increase. Amway's sales and revenues dropped more than 25% from 2014 to now (2018).

If someone is convinced that Amway will be their financial savior and that by using tools and moving 100 PV will result in long term financial security and residual income as claimed by upline, then that is what they will do in hopes of achieving the end goal. When that goal or dream doesn't materialize, the former IBOs realize that the tools and products no longer have the value they once thought they had. How many former IBOs will buy standing order or attend functions? If these materials really made you nicer, or saved marriages, why don't any former IBOs keep buying them? Why do some Amway IBOs resort to selling them for pennies on the dollar on Ebay or Craigslist? What happened to the great return policy?

Bottom line is that the tools ineffective.  Is seems as if some IBOs success in spite of, not because of the tools.  They only work for the uplines who directly profit from the sale of tools, plus the artificial demand in product sales created by those IBOs who are convinced that Amway will make them rich. Once the reality sets in that Amway will not make them rich, and that the tools are simply draining their resources, then the demand or tools and Amway products disappears almost instantly. There is no unbiased evidence that I know of to suggest that these tools work, and basically, the miserable number of new diamonds emerging in the US seems to confirm this fact.

Ineffective Tools?

 One of the things my Amway upline always pushed on us was the tools system. While the tools are said to be optional, they are not promoted that way. They were promoted as vital, necessary, almost as if you were insane to try and build an Amway business without tools. Basically the tools were a defacto requirement. My upline always claimed that nobody ever "made it" without tools. Some Amway defenders insist that the tools work, and that IBOs who were on the system proved it with higher levels of success and product volume. But the tools work for maybe a fraction of 1% of IBOs who try them. The vast majority of people who use tools make nothing or lose money. Similar to a lottery.

IBOs participating in the system (voicemail, book of the month, standing orders, functions, etc) do more PV. I believe this is true, but it is true, only because once the upline can convince you to participate in the system, then that same IBO is also convinced that they should or must do 100 PV as part of the deal. People who aren't convinced that the system is vital, subsequently do not purchase or sell as much PV because they have not been convinced that moving PV will make them successful or wealthy.

Critics and Amway supporters have debated this issue for years, but clearly, the evidence supports my position. Why? Because if there was a true demand for Amway products because of their quality and/or value, then there wouldn't be such a steep drop off in movement of volume when an IBO becomes a former IBO. Many, probably most former IBOs never buy a single Amway product once they leave the business. If the products had true quality and value as Amway supporters claim, why don't people continue to purchase 100 PV per month when they quit? Because they never wanted or needed all of that product in the first place? If former Amway IBOs continued to but products, Amway sales would continue to increase. Amway's sales and revenues dropped more than 25% from 2014 to now (2018).

If someone is convinced that Amway will be their financial savior and that by using tools and moving 100 PV will result in long term financial security and residual income as claimed by upline, then that is what they will do in hopes of achieving the end goal. When that goal or dream doesn't materialize, the former IBOs realize that the tools and products no longer have the value they once thought they had. How many former IBOs will buy standing order or attend functions? If these materials really made you nicer, or saved marriages, why don't any former IBOs keep buying them? Why do they resort to selling them for pennies on the dollar on Ebay or Craigslist? What happened to the great return policy?

Bottom line is that the tools don't work. They only work for the uplines who directly profit from the sale of tools, plus the artificial demand in product sales created by those IBOs who are convinced that Amway wil make them rich. Once the reality sets in that Amway will not make them rich, and that the tools are simply draining their resources, then the demand or tools and Amway products disappears almost instantly. There is no unbiased evidence that I know of to suggest that these tools work, and basically, the miserable amount of new diamonds emerging in the US seems to confirm this fact.

An Amway Comment?

 http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=192279&page=8

It's refreshing to see so many good people on this forum telling the truth about Amway. It looks like the pro-Amway shills here and on other sites are becoming increasingly outnumbered and desperate. I've read through this entire thread and think it is hilarious how many times the shill has to move the goalposts or play word games to make Amway look like an amazing business opportunity.

I was originally introduced to Amway many years ago in my late teens by an uncle of mine. I attended a few of their seminars and was impressed at first. But the whole thing started to seem ridiculous and unrealistic and so I didn't get involved any further. Also, I'm not that materialistic, so Amway's message doesn't appeal to me. I wish my uncle had been more skeptical.

My uncle was very devoted to Amway for a few years. He bought all their products (especially the tapes and books), tried to get others to buy them, and also tried to recruit all his family and friends into his new religion. He eventually lost money and friends and alienated himself from much of his family.

Already heavily in debt, he eventually fell for another, even bigger get-rich-quick scam shortly after quitting Amway (to Amway's credit, they don't threaten to kill anyone for leaving Amway). This one robbed him of his entire life savings. The scammers got away with it because they knew how to play him right (he met one of them through Amway). His wife divorced him soon after.

As if this wasn't enough, after making a modest financial recovery with his business over the course of several years, he loses it all to yet another scam. He had to borrow heavily from the few friends he had left since no bank would ever give him a loan, and almost no one in the family has anything to do with him anymore. I haven't seen him for 15 years.

One thing I wonder about my uncle is if all those seminars and inspirational tapes and books softened him up to fall for all those other scams he fell for after quitting Amway (he didn't have a reputation for being gullible before joining Amway, though he was never that bright to begin with). If I remember correctly, he tended to blame himself for failing at Amway and may have never understood that it was a big scam or at least not a good business opportunity.

I still remember those crazy seminars and how they told everyone that joining the Amway cult will likely lead to yachts, exotic vacations surrounded by hot bikini babes, and shiny expensive cars, among other symbols of wealth. Everyone is told at the seminars and in the "tools" that they have all this unfulfilled potential, but to realize this potential we must avoid those small-minded "dream killers"(skeptical family members and friends).

The story about my stupid uncle is true. There are many other people out there just like him who have fallen for Amway and others MLMs. The few people I've met who claimed they were very successful at Amway usually seemed sleazy or I would find out years later they were up to their eyeballs in debt.

The person who said before that the people who regularly attend these seminars are mostly fools and misfits was spot on.

Making Millions?

 I was sponsored into Amway by a good friend back in the 1990's. My friend had gone "direct" at the time so he recruited me by saying that going direct was "easy" and that he could easily show me how to do it. I had been recruited by an Amway IBO before and it was not a good experience where I was lied to in order to get me to "see the plan". I was in college and a friend had invited me to a "beer bust". I attended the meeting wearing a T-shirt and jeans only to arrive to see people wearing suits and ties and I was thinking WTH? My friend who invited me assured me that we would down some beer after the meeting. I was mad even though I stayed for the meeting.

I didn't join and my friend eventually told me that he may not be able to hang out with me in the future because he would be rich and may not have time to hang out anymore. I went home a bit mad and spoke to my friend who I came with. We talked about whether money could be made in Amway and decided that the Amway opportunity was likely saturated, so we decided not to join.

Fast forward to the 1990's and a friend of mine has gone "direct". I didn't really know exactly what that was, but I knew that the term "direct" meant you accomplished a significant level in Amway. I decided to join and see if my friend could deliver on his promise that he could show me how to go direct. I should have taken it as a red flag when I asked him about his Amway income, and he told me it was none of my business. But he smoothed that over by assuring me that we would both be "Millionaires" traveling the world together in the future.

I worked really hard and managed to sponsor 12 frontline legs in about 7-8 months and I was climbing the Amway ladder. I was considered a "mover and shaker" so I got exclusive time with the upline Diamond. I even got to attend special meetings and house "plans" with the diamond.

The ironic part of their story is that I purchased a home in about the year 2000 and I made the purchase for about $300K. My real estate agent also knows my Amway sponsor and contacted him about purchasing a home on Oahu (Hawaii). My former sponsor told the agent that he would only buy a home in cash (Amway/WWDB teaching). Fast forward to 2017 and my $300K home is worth nearly one million dollars so my home equity alone nearly makes my net worth a million dollars. When you add in my cash savings and investments, I am worth about 1.3 million. Sure, nothing to brag about and it's still not a life of luxury, but my former sponsor from Amway who is a physician is still renting a home and is nowhere close to retiring. I will be retired soon, with enough cash to live comfortably which includes frequent travel other luxuries.

While I may not be a diamond living the "diamond" lifestyle you see at functions on a slide show, I suspect that I'll be better off that some of the diamonds who live "bouts check to bonus check" trying to portray a lifestyle of "keeping up with the Joneses". Diamonds portray an excessive lifestyle of wealth but I suspect that many of them cannot afford the lifestyle they portray. There have been "factoids" that support my claims. The fact that a triple diamond in WWDB declared chapter 7 bankruptcy and another diamond had a home foreclosed (diamonds pay cash for everything?) shows that diamonds may not be as financially free as they claim.

So who's making millions in Amway? IMO, the folks selling CDs, voicemail, functions and books, if they even make "millions".  

A Level Playing Field?

 The Amway business is a level playing field. At least that's what my upline told us when I was an IBO. That everyone starts at zero. While that is somewhat true, there were other factors that existed, that most IBOs did not know about. That factor is the possibility of PV manipulation. I believe that groups that are not on direct fulfillment (Groups still calling in and picking up) are able to transfer PV around. Thus, certain groups or favored downline could be manufactured into higher pins. I believe most groups are currently on direct fulfillment, but I did confirm some years ago that some groups still are on call in and pick up.  Imagine that?

But let's examine the concept that everyone starts at zero. While this aspect may be true, certain people are simply better at selling, or better and more adept at socializing and talking to others. So, while your PV count may be zero, the skills needed to start and run a business is not a level playing field for most. I believe uplines state this to give prospects the idea that everyone has an equal chance at succeeding in Amway. I just cannot believe this to be true. Even current diamonds, while having achieved a certain level, probably could not "start at zero" again and build a diamond business.  Maybe 15 years ago or so, WWDB leaders challenged their diamonds to build another diamond business on top of what they already have.  As far as I know, not a single one of them made any serious progress towards this.  

Also when you really think about it, the "old timers" of the diamonds should actually be given less credibility than the newer ones. Do you really believe that a diamond or higher pin who built his business in the 1970's or 80's can really teach people in 2026 how to build the business in a way to address people in 2026, and the fact that the business is mostly internet based as opposed to the old days, not to mention the advance of social media, text messaging and other modern forms of communication.

It is easy to stand on stage, tell people how great you are, show off (alleged) material wealth and then tell prospects that everyone starts at zero and that anyone can build the business. I do not believe that it is true. I also strongly suspect that very few (if any) of the current diamonds would be able to "start at zero" and build a new diamond ship here in the US, where the reputation and shrinking sales would be handicaps too great to overcome for the vast majority of prospective IBOs.   So, if that project for diamonds to build another diamond business on top of their current diamond business, why aren't there hordes of double diamonds?   You already know the answer......