Ripped Off?

 Over my Amway and blogging experience, I have come to a conclusion which I will stand by. And this, in my informed opinion, is a significant problem with the Amway opportunity. The Amway owner, Rich Devos acknowledged this issue back in 1983 in his "directly speaking" tape and unfortunately, nothing apparently substantial was ever done and therefore, the problem exists today.

The Amway opportunity is one part of the issue, with the tools systems being the other prong. Over the years, the Amway opportunity and the tools systems have formed a symbiotic relationship. It is as if Amway needs the system and the system needs Amway. What I mean is that Amway provides the opportunity, and then the system uses the opportunity to sell the system. In the meantime, the system leaders teach 100 PV, product loyalty, and do most if not all of the new IBO recruiting. Amway benefits as the system teaches movement of PV whether by sales or self consumption, and new IBO recruitment, and the system leaders benefit by having a captive audience to sell their cds, books, seminars, voicemail, and website fees.

The conflict of interest occurs when uplines tell their new IBOs that they "need" to attend a certain function, or that they "need" standing order to succeed. The upline is smart enough not to say the system is "required", but certainly, they will put a defacto requirement by saying things such as nobody has ever succeeded without the system, but you can try to be the first, or they may say the system is optional, but so is success. Of someone may say so and so diamond (insert) name is a multi millionaire and he advocates the system, but you can go against his advice if you think you know better.

The bigger problem is that these upline leaders will tell you that you basically cannot succeed without these tools, but at the same time, the more tools you buy, the more profit these uplines make. Some Amway apologists will justify this by saying a college professor may sell his own books to his students. But this is not the same thing. A college professor may spend years researching to write that one book. He will be teaching his expertise that is written in the book. When you attend seminars or listen to cds, you do not have one expert guiding you with clear documentation on how they succeeded. You have very general generic experiences coming from various speakers who may or may not have any common background with IBOs. Thus these upline leaders will profit from their downline IBO volume and also from tools that they advise downline to purchase regardless of downline success or progress in the business.

As evidence of these bad practices by upline, consider this. If upline truly has "valuable" information that would help you succeed, they would get that information to you in whatever means they could. Either by voicemail, MP3, Youtube or whatever. Why would they withhold trade secrets if they really wanted your success? Has it ever occurred to IBOs that maybe uplines doesn't want your success? Maybe it is why you must pay for any piece of advice or support you receive. Maybe upline is perfectly happy with people coming and going as long as there are tool purchases because then there are no new IBOs (platinums and up) to share the tool profits with.

There is a definite conflict of interest with profiting uplines advising you to buy tools. The question if whether you see it or not?

Bad Advice?

 In the Amway business, most active IBOs are advised to trust their upline. To think of upline as a coach or a mentor. These upline mentors or coaches are supposed to have your best interest at heart and they will guide you to success if only you will be open to learning and doing what they advise. Many uplines, including my former uplines used to coin the term "copy" or duplicate. If you can do that you will be successful. Even the simplest of people can copy, they claim. The upline may crack a joke about getting thru school by copying. Thus, many IBOs follow exactly what their upline advises them to do.

But then uplines turn the responsibility away from themselves. Many Amway defenders will also claim that downline should not simply follow the advice of upline. They may make a ridiculous claim that standing orders and functions contain advice that must be discerned. That information they get is like a buffet. You pick and choose what you need and discard the rest. If you are a new IBO or prospect, let me tell you that is a load of guano (crap) that is being heaped on you. Your upline is touted as having experience and wisdom in the Amway business, which is why you are paying good money for voicemail, books, cds, and functions. So why would their advice be something you pick and choose? How would a new IBO know what to pick and choose?

Imagine hiring a guide for a trek in the wilderness. The guide is supposed to be an experienced outdoorsman, perhaps an expert who knows the lay of the land. So if he recommends that you eat certain plants or fruits, you trust that he is going to guide you right. Imagine eating something that made you sick to your stomach, only to have the guide tell you that he just points out plants and fruits and you have to discern which is good for you and which is not. You would fire the guide and tell everyone you know not to use that guide anymore.

But here we have these "systems" such as Network 21, WWDB or BWW that have been "guiding" IBOs for up to 20 years or more in some cases, and the number of diamonds are negligible. Sure there are some new platinums, but many tool consuming platinums have been found to be losing money or making very little money for their efforts. What's more, it would appear that Amway is losing ground in North America based on sales. One can reasonably guess that any new platinums that break are simply replacing the volume for a platinum that no longer exists or a platinum that no longer qualifies. My former upline diamond appears to have all new qualifying platinums from the time I was in the business and here's the kicker. My former diamond had 6 downline rubies. As far as I know, none of these rubies are qualified as platinum anymore, and I don't know that any of these "rubies" are even in the Amway business at all at this point.

Uplines also program their downline to take responsibility for the failure. Thus you have IBOs who did everything that was asked of them, only to fail. Yet these IBOs often blame themselves for their failure. It is my opinion that former IBOs who did everything asked of them only to fail should file a formal complaint against their LOS with the better business bureau. Amway defenders like to think that a lack of formal complaints means that the system works when clearly, there is no unbiased substantial evidence to suggest that the system works. It looks like those who succeed, do so in spite of the system, not because of.

The catch in all this is uplines skirting responsibility for the outcomes of those they "mentor" and profit from. IBOs should ask if upline really cared about their success, why do you have to pay for any help that you receive from your upline diamond?

My Upline Said So?

 When I was sponsored into Amway, it was by a friend. It wasn't my closest or best friend at the time, but there was still an element of trust. It was enough trust where I took his word as the truth, especially when it was related to the Amway business. I later started to see flaws and inconsistencies in what my sponsor and upline said, but at first I took things at face value, because it seemed to make sense and it seemed sincere.

For example, when my upline said they had our best interest at heart, and that they would do their best to help us succeed, it made sense. You build depth and solidify your business. Seems sensible. It seemed perfectly reasonable and sensible until I later learned how much money my upline was potentially making on tools. My upline (WWDB) stated explicitly that no profit was made on the sale of functions and tools, thus it only made sense that upline wanted downline to succeed. Knowing that there was no profit motive on tools, you'd trust that upline truly wanted the downline to succeed. Let me clarify that upline said there was tool profits, but that profits did not benefit the diamonds, and that the profits were reinvested back into WWDB to make the functions better and cheaper. As it turned out the no profits from tools was an outright bold-faced lie told by WWDB upline. To this day, no one has ever been held accountable for these lies and it has since been forgotten.

Based on things written and information available on the internet, I have reason to believe that WWDB continues to teach the same stuff today, as they did 15 years ago. They teach that IBOs should purchase homes in cash, that jobs are no good, that the wife should stay home, that WWDB IBOs have a 2% divorce rate compared to 60% for the rest of the world. Some IBOs are so flippant that they believe that only Amway IBOs have integrity in this world.

What is scary is that so many downline get systematically brainwashed into thinking that everything but Amway is no good and that only IBOs are good. Some of these folks are good and hardworking, but they have been caught up in a systematic scam. They believe their upline without question and anything said by upline is the gospel truth and everyone else is wrong. These folks also censor information and worship their leaders. It is why so many people compare some Amway groups to a cult.

It is a bit scary but it's happening on this very day. A sad sight to see.

Losers?

 One of the things I recall as an IBO was thinking how sorry I felt for people who were not IBOs because we were all going to be rich and everyone else was destined to be a loser. Our upline used to tell us that we were winners - and if you weren't a winner, then obviously, you are a loser. Many times, the term "broke" was attached to the term loser. That was my mindset back then but having been out of the system more than ten years, I can look back and laugh, realizing that the losers were the ones buying stuff they don't need, stalking people at malls and bookstores, and wasting their time and money on tapes (cds), books and functions and perhaps voicemail. (Who needs voicemail these days?)

What goes unnoticed in many cases, is how much time and money really goes down the drain for IBOs who work the system. Your life revolves around the business if you are dedicated and hard core. You are always looking for prospects and people to show the plan to, and you have to rearrange your schedules, or outright skip social or family gatherings because of the never-ending number of meetings and functions, many of which teach you nothing about running a profitable business. When I first left the Amway business, I was sort of angry at the time and effort that was wasted, along with the cash I threw down the crapper.

But after I did finally cut ties with the business and the people associated with it, I got back into a routine of sorts. I focused on my job and after some years of gaining experience and working my way up the corporate ladder, I received some promotions, and I am scheduled to be retired before the age of 60 with a decent retirement income and will likely have my home paid off by then. So while I did have to work a dreaded job to be able to retire, pretty much all IBOs are also working a job or business PLUS having to expend their time and money to run their Amway business which has little to no chance of providing a long term stable and significant income. And if I may add, it is the systems such as WWDB or N21 that usually end up costing the IBOs the most money because of things like the functions.

So, I will ask the question. Who's the real loser? The person diligently working and saving for their future or the person chasing a dream that is unlikely to materialize? Factoring in the expenditure of time also makes the systems even more costly than it appears on the surface.

All You Need Is Six?

 When I was an IBO, our group used a 6-4-2 Amway recruitment plan. I believe many groups continue to use a 6-4-2 plan or a 9-4-2 plan, except for those teams perhaps who emphasized stacking where you basically work 2-3 legs and keep driving depth, of course having your business down 2-3 legs makes you less profitable, but it does create some stability for your upline (They have your best interest at heart?).  But the point of this message is how many IBOs must you sponsor to accomplish this plan? I know the Amway recruiters will say all you need is six (6).

"All you need is six". I heard the saying "some will, some won't, somewhere, six will". But what exactly does that mean? MOST IBOs will not sponsor another IBO. Apparently Amway, formerly Quixtar released a figure that stated 1 in 5 IBOs sponsor another IBO. Amway apologists have said many times that most IBOs "do nothing". Thus, if only 1 in five IBO can manage to sponsor others and most "do nothing", one can easily conclude that you cannot sponsor only 6 other IBOs. If most do nothing and only 1 in 5 sponsor another IBO, you may need to sponsor 10 or more IBOs just to find a single downline who can sponsor a downline.

Thus, if you go by Amway's numbers alone, the more realistic version of the plan would be 30-20-10, based on the 1 in 5 numbers. Does this still sound attractive? Can you find 30 people to see the plan, let alone find 30 people to register? Do you get positive reactions when you mention "Amway" or do you get funny looks? Are you upfront with prospects or do you leave out "Amway" when prospecting?

You could be lucky, and sponsor say 20 people and go platinum or higher, but conversely, you may have to sponsor 88 people to find 6 downline capable of sponsoring others. If you have not sponsored a single person or have trouble adding new people each month, you should ask yourself an honest question. Is this business really working for me? To me this is pretty clear. You will not go diamond sponsoring only 6 downline, unless your downline never quits, or sponsors people before they quit. And even that doesn't guarantee anything.

Realistically, you will need to sponsor 20-30 people personal width, consistently adding new IBOs, or your group will suffer from attrition and backslide. Where are you at?  

The Pyramid?

 Let me start out by saying that Amway, at least to the letter of the law, appears to be a perfectly legal company. Therefore, I am not saying or implying that Amway is illegal. But I believe that the way Amway businesses are run, are like pyramids. In most groups, you will have the lowest level IBOs efforts and tool purchases being responsible for the upline bonuses and tools income. Many IBOs are fooled into thinking that the ability to surpass your upline or that you don't get paid to recruit downline makes this a good deal. Think about it for a bit. Aren't most Amway gatherings about motivation and recruiting?  How many uplines teach and emphasize retail sales?  In a recent post, I mentioned how you have no business if you have no sales.

Unless you have a very rare group where actual product sales to non-IBOs is sufficient to cover the costs of running your business, functions and all, then it is true that the lower level IBO's jobs are the primary source of income for the uplines. How many groups are like that where selling is nearly exclusively to retail customers and not downline? None that I have ever seen or know of. In fact, how often do IBOs even sell enough products to cover their expenses for even one month out of the year? The groups that teach "buy from yourself" end up doing the most financial damage to their groups because the downline's expenses are then covered exclusively from the downline's jobs, bank accounts, or drive the downline into debt. 

I've seen and discussed group structures in forums many times and I can only conclude that tool sales easily wipe out what little profits/bonuses some of the downlines might receive. Only when an IBO is able to sponsor enough downline to absorb the losses for them will they finally break even or make a little profit. I would guess that the 4000 PV level or platinum is where a dedicated CORE IBO would break even and possibly start to make a small profit.  On the other hand, a hard-CORE dedicated IBO can still lose money at 4000 or at platinum.    But we also know that most platinum groups have 100 or more IBOs in order to generate 7500 PV. Thus, we can also conclude that less than 1% of IBOs make a net profit. The only way IBOs can earn a net profit at a lower level is to avoid purchasing tools and to avoid paying for functions. Those who get involved in a system such as WWDB or N21 almost guarantee that they will have a net loss. 

Sure, my job may have a pyramid structure with the CEO making the most money. But the difference is that in a company, even the lowest paid employee still receives a paycheck and has net positive income at the end of the month. The same claim cannot be made by IBOs. For these reasons, I believe Amway to be a product pyramid. IBOs and information seekers are free to participate, but I challenge them to sit down and really analyze their ability to make a net profit. In most cases, the analysis won't be favorable. If you are in the US in particular, you may have great difficulty in even being able to discuss "Amway" without getting strange looks your way from others. Good luck in whatever you decide.

Business Expenses?

 Many uplines will use slightly deceptive recruitment tactics when getting new people to see or register into the Amway business. One of the common things was how joining Amway has very little risk, no or very little overhead. This is true, if an IBO is not involved in any of the system related training. However, it is the goal of many if not most uplines to get as many IBOs involved in the system as possible. This is probably because selling standing orders, voicemails and seminars has a higher profit margin for some uplines than the actual movement of Amway volume. So, some newbies might join thinking Amway won't cost them much, only to find out that 100 PV might run them more than $300. They may not be aware that standing orders and functions never end and can add an additional cost of up to several hundreds of dollars more. Uplines will then justify the expense by saying the IBO is investing in his/her business.

New IBOs, and especially IBOs who are single should seriously think about the cost of being a business building IBO before joining. Many or most prospects don't know that building an Amway business using system tools and "coaching" can cost them up to$500 or more each month. A single person more than likely cannot possibly consume 100 PV worth or products on a monthly basis unless they almost exclusively consume XS drinks and Nutrilite vitamins. And secondly, how many singles or prospects were consuming cases of energy drinks and vitamins ($300 monthly) before being presented with the Amway business? How many people were willing to fork out hundreds of dollars for a weekend function that may require airfare and hotel stay? I don't think too many people like this exist. But I believe they do so because they have been sold a dream of financial freedom, of early retirement and not having to work a job anymore. But the evidence would suggest that once the dream disappears or reality sets in, how many (former) IBOs continue to purchase Amway products and attend seminars?

I know of many former IBOs, and I don't know of any who purchase Amway products on a regular basis, and I don't know of ANYONE who has ever forked out money to attend an Amway/AMO function after they stopped being an IBO. Amway's numbers bear out this claim as there is very little sales to people who are not IBOs. The IBO salesforce is responsible for consuming the lion's share of Amway's products and services. I myself have purchased an Amway product or two since I left the business. But I did so only to humor friends who were still in the business. They have all since quit. It is very reasonable to conclude that once the desire to build the business stops, the desire to purchase Amway products also stops.

Most eager young and motivated people who sign up often do not realize that these IBO expenses exist. While Amway acknowledges that these tools and systems expenses are optional, the uplines who promote the tools may suggest that it is insanity to attempt to build an Amway business without the tools or strongly encourage new IBOs to partake. A common statement was that we "needed" to be at the next function no matter what. Missing it would set your business back six months. New IBOs and prospects don't know better so they will often conform. Sadly, there is ZERO unbiased evidence that the tools and seminars do anything to increase IBO volume and/or the sponsorship rate. In my informed and experienced opinion, the tools are ineffective and the vast majority if IBOs would be better off handing their upline a monthly check for $100 and not building the business or buying any products.

IBOs and information seekers should be aware of these potential IBO expenses and determine if the expenses would be worth your while. Keep in mind that someone upline profits handsomely from the tools, even if you do not make a cent from your Amway business. You should have your best interest at heart, no matter what your upline tells you.

Where's The Money?

 I find it humorous when so many IBOs talk about their anecdotal stories of success, or talk about how their system teaches a foolproof way of succeeding in Amway. Yet I have not seen a single IBO who was willing to describe their business structure or talk about how they progressed from zero PV into a profitable structure. Amway's biggest defender, IBOfightback is a good example of someone who can talk a good game but cannot back it up with evidence of any success in Amway. Back in my IBO days, someone who could talk a good game was a teacher, and not a doer. Many IBOs may have a good theory about how to build a business but evidence clearly shows that it is talk and not action. One specific example is how an IBO is supposed to find 20 customers who each buy 20 PV from an IBO. Amway's own numbers show that an IBO who can actually do this is rare or non existent. Less than 4% of Amway's products, apparently are sold to those who are not IBOs. IBOfightback sits in the quiet confines of his blog where his kool aid induced followers blindly agree with everything he says. Apparently, IBOFightback is all theory and no results. So I say - show us the money someone.

Based on my observations, most IBOs have a small (Amway) business, unable to sponsor enough downline to move any significant volume. They faithfully self-consume 100 PV and do most of the CORE steps, except for being able to consistently show the plan and sponsor downline. Why is this? It is because the Amway reputation is stained and getting people to see the plan is an enormous challenge by itself, not taking into consideration that sponsoring is even harder. If you are reading this blog and you can relate to what you see here, perhaps you need to re-think your business situation and ask your sponsor some tough questions.

Now this leads to another question. Other than flashing a photocopy of someone's diamond bonus or the like, has your sponsor or anyone upline actually showed evidence of a profit in Amway? If you asked, what response did you receive? When I asked my sponsor about profit, I was told it was "none of my business". I believe that someone who is asking you to follow their system, which is not free, should be tasked with providing this information. If your upline teaches submission to upline, even more so you should demand to see results.

If your upline or sponsor refuses to show you evidence of profit, it should send up red flags all over the place. Maybe, just maybe, the critics of Amway are onto something.

How About A Straight Answer?

 One of the humorous things about Amway IBOs is their ability to say a whole lot without having any substance. They'll talk about how great the business is and how much they have learned and then when you ask if they made any money, you either get dead silence or you get some answer about how they's seen a copy of a check from someone's upline diamond or something like that. But it's very rare that an IBO will be upfront about their earnings. Of course, I can understand that someone brand new might not have made a whole lot, but I have seen some IBOs outright lie and say they've been in Amway a month and they're making $5000 a month or some other tall tale like they are 23 years old and retired.  LOL

Even when discussing some Amway released information such as the average earnings of an IBO, you can hear all kinds of excuses provided by Amway IBOs and Amway defenders. They will make excuses like most IBOs do nothing. As if that isn't a problem in itself. Or they make stupid analogies about people signing up for a gym membership and then not doing anything. As if owning a business and exercising are the same thing. I even hear questionable claims about how so many people sign up as IBOs to get lower prices. I chuckle when I hear that because Amway's prices in general, are not competitive with big retailers. I believe that is because Amway must add the cost of IBO bonuses in the cost of their goods and services. While an IBO might save from the full retail price of Amway products, you can (in most cases) find the same or a similar product cheaper online or at Walmart, Costco, Target, or a host of other retailers.

Another area where IBOs like to divert the discussion is when the discussion is about the success rate of IBOs in general. Based on Amway's own numbers, less than one half of one percent of IBOs reach the level of platinum. Platinum is the level where allegedly, an IBO either breaks even or starts to make some net profit. It would depend on whether the IBO is involved in the tools and to whet level of participation. But IBOs like to downplay this fact as if people simply did not work hard enough or did not learn enough, rather than simply acknowledging that the system itself might be flawed.

The last area I see issues is when talking about selling products. I suspect that product sales to non IBOs is relatively small.  I did a recent blog post called "If you have no sales, you have no business"  I believe there may be some exceptional people who can sell, but people in general, do not like to or do not possess the skills to sell products. Yet I see IBOs making all kinds of stories about "selling" to customers. I rarely get a straight answer about product sales as well. The fact that many Amway IBOs can't give a straight answer is quite telling.

Alternatives?

 One of the humorous things that IBOs often bring up is that someone who sees Amway in a critical eye should bring up viable alternatives. I mean if someone prevents you from fall over a cliff, they should have warned you and given you alternatives, right? If I recognized you getting conned by a conman, I should find viable financial investments for you before warning you of the potential scam you are about to walk into. It sounds completely ridiculous, but Amway IBOs have actually made those comments on this blog and some other Amway related websites.

Well, let's explore a few anyway just for fun. How about you stay home and do nothing? For most IBOs, you would be better off financially than committing your time and resources into Amway's products and their ineffective training materials and functions. If you are really dedicated to tools, sending your upline a check for $50 monthly and not buying Amway goods or related training materials would make you better off.  Playing video games or taking a nap is better because at least you don't lose money. 

A second job where you actually receive a paycheck is a better alternative. While there's no hype and hopes of getting rich in 2-5 years, you can do much for your future by saving a portion of that paycheck each month. If you are young, this especially applies to you. But anyone can help their future by saving and investing. Even someone who panhandles is more likely to have more net cash than most Amway IBOs.

Sure, some people do make money in Amway, and some make a lot of money. The problem is they make money by exploiting their downlines and those hopeful downlines basically have no hope. In other words, you profit by selling false hope and false dreams. Basically, you can gain wealth in Amway by being a conman. Can you live with yourself in order to profit at any cost?

I haven't even gone into the amount of time lost chasing prospects and attending functions. Your time might be the most valuable commodity that is lost chasing the 2-5 year dream. Ask yourself this question. Where are these diamonds who did the 2-5 year plan living in luxury and doing nothing? I don't know of any/ Do you?

Without Sales You Have No Business?

 I heard this phrase on the show "Shark Tank", when the panel of investors all rejected a business owner who was looking for one of the sharks to invest in their business.  The business owner kept on insisting that she could make it with the help of the sharks.  After answering a bunch of questions, one of the Sharks (Mark Cuban) told the business owner that he was out because without sales, you have no business.  Essentially, the prospective business owner had dismal sales numbers and the prospect of making money was unlikely, again, because of the lack of sales thus far.

So honest question for IBOs.  What are your sales?  I'm not here to debate whether or not IBOs have sales or not.  But the IBOs themselves know the answer to that.  Are you selling most of your 100 PV per month or are you self-consuming most of that PV yourself?   Are your sales primarily to sympathetic family and friends?  Or maybe you have zero sales, and your entire PV tally is based on self-consumption?    If you are the sole customer of your business, then refer to the title of this post.  Without sales, you have no business. 

If you have no sales, you have no business.  That should resonate with IBOs for obvious reasons.  If you break it down even further, do you even have a business or are you simply a participant in a complex product pyramid scheme?   Now I'm not talking about whether Amway is legal or not.  But a lack of sales to actual customers is usually a red flag when it concerns product pyramid schemes.   Are you actively pursuing customers to fuel your business?  Or does your upline just fluff it off and advise you to self-consume more products?   I say this because it's great for your uplines who get the lion's share of the bonus generated from your consumption of Amway goods and services.  The IBO on the bottom gets a paltry sum for their efforts.  It's Amway and the higher upline IBOs who get the most benefit from the movement of PV.  

Honest question for IBOs.  Without actual sales, how do you think you can generate a profit from your Amway business?  If your solution is simply to sponsor downline over and over, then you will all suffer net business losses until you generate sufficient sales, or until you finally "go diamond" where you earn decent bonuses from the Amway corporation, and you are then allowed to sell tools and functions to your downline to augment your diamond income.  That's where the real money is if I'm not mistaken.  So if and when you ever go diamond, you want your faithful downline to move volume regardless of how it gets done, thus, the buy from yourself, or self-consumption accomplishes that for the higher uplines.  It really does nothing for the vast majority of downline IBOs.  

Therefore, keep in mind that without sales, you have no business.  It's really as simple as that.

 

 

Is Lying Needed For Success?

 In the years I have been blogging about Amway IBOs and the opportunity, I've seen a lot of deception. As an IBO, upline leaders flat out lied and claimed they made no money off tools. They gave a lot of bad business advice and have never been held accountable for their lies. From what I gather, not much has changed and IBOs are still fed some of the same BS about the business. Amway's former biggest defender, IBOFightback AKA David Steadson is a shameless liar when it comes to defending Amway and MLM in general. When cornered with irrefutable facts, he will resort to personal attacks against myself or other critics. Ironically, the biggest defenders of Amway never seem to have made much of the business themselves. Do you ever wonder why diamonds never "walk away" from Amway to collect the mythical residual income?

Amway folks often must spin and justify their ridiculous prices. Amway's flagship vitamin double X retails for nearly $80 for a one month supply. You can get 3-6 months worth of multi vitamins at Wal-Mart or Costco. Defenders will cite quality or Phyto nutrients as their justification, but cannot cite any neutral scientific evidence that their vitamins are better than others. They'll say their products are concentrated as another way to justify the high prices. (I hope you don't spill any while you mix Amway potions) What's also funny is that I don't see the term "concentrated" on Amway's products, Is this claim about Amway's products true or just another lie?

Even the claim of people earning residual income is dicey. While in theory it might be possible for someone to earn residual income, the reality is that the attrition rate would quickly wipe out any residuals you might earn in the beginning. Like a attrition at the beach, your income will disappear quickly. I believe it is for that reason that diamonds and crown ambassadors never retire, but work until their death. The Amway owners however, might be enjoying residual income, but that's another story.

So why is lying and deception a part of promoting Amway (for IBOs)? Because the real picture is not rosy. Because without some deception, people would likely not be interested in the business opportunity or the products.

The Game Plan?

Joecool will be taking a weekend vacation (without Amway money) to Las Vegas.  I'll be there on the Strip for some fun and relaxation.  I'll be back on Tuesday of next week.  Until then, enjoy this article: 

Having blogged for a number of years now, I have observed that IBOs talk a good game about retailing, sponsoring and doing Amway business activities. They will tell you to set yourself up with 20 customers, sponsor 6 frontline, show a number of plans and set up certain follow ups with contacts, and doing other activities supposedly to build an Amway business. I find it very humorous when these same IBOs start throwing insults or diverting the discussion when someone asks if they are actually making money. Of course it would be understandable if a new IBO would admit they had not made a fortune as of yet, but it seems that even that response is not forthcoming from IBOs.

It seems that the Amway business is simple enough. Buy some products, sell products and try to sponsor some downline in order to leverage your volume with your downlines. IBOs mistakenly believe that you can build it once correctly and that the income will flow into future generations. What goes unnoticed is that IBOs come and go with such a high frequency, that a business generating residual income would be like a sandcastle on the beach. You might build it nice and big but the waves of attrition would quickly turn that sandcastle into nothing. The same would be true of an Amway business. The IBOs dropping out would wipe out your business unless you are constantly replacing the people who quit. IBOs like to talk about Amway sales and how the company is growing in sales, but the Amway sales have no relationship with making individual IBOs more profitable.

IBOs may also toss in comments about how they are nicer people or how they are improving their marriage because of the Amway business. I often wonder how that can be when functions and meetings take you away from your family and spouse. I suppose it could be because the uplines talk about people being nicer or tossing out lies about Amway and the AMOs saving marriages. I remember a WWDB diamond talking about how WWDB members had a 2% divorce rate while the rest of society has a 60% divorce rate. Ironically, that diamond's marriage ended in divorce. I believe this crap is still taught as a WWDB IBO who blogs, had mentioned this tidbit on his blog some years ago. I don't believe Amwayers or anyone else has a higher or lower rate of divorce than society but it becomes an issue when uplines teach it and their downlines repeat it.

So it would seem that IBOs talk a good game. They know what to say and how to act, but they're like poker players who are bluffing. If you call them on it, they are likely to fold in their hands because they don't have the goods. It is why many Amway discussions turn into a insult contest, when the IBO suddenly gets confronted with facts that are contrary to upline teaching. It's usually quite funny but I wonder if these folks question their upline or go on their merry way repeating uplines lies? It becomes apparent to everyone but the IBO when they are repeating crazy stuff taught by their upline. Good luck to anyone who tries to build this business against nearly insurmountable odds.

Early Retirement?

 One of the humorous things I read is when an Amway IBO says he or she is 19 years old and will be "retired" at the age of 24 because of the Amway business. I personally don't know of anyone who has retired primarily on residual Amway income, as many seem to claim. I am not suggesting that nobody has ever done this, but I suspect that there are so few people who may have done it that it is not noteworthy. Even the Crown Ambassadors appear to not only be working but have very busy schedules where they are constantly on the run. In recent years, some crown ambassadors have passed away while still on the job. Why don't we see any Amway retirees? I know retired teachers, police, fire fighters and such. I don't know of any Amway retirees.

The poor retention rate of IBOs would suggest that even a sizable Amway business could fall apart rather quickly without a constant replacement of IBOs. It is for this reason that I suspect that Amway folks never retire. They need to keep working or their businesses will fall apart. If you are a diamond, one downline platinum falling out of qualification could drop you to emerald status. Diamonds are not forever, especially in Amway. They may carry the diamond pin, and could be speaking at functions, but they might be a former diamond with a small downline group.

I ask this of IBOs. Is your upline diamond, or someone in between you and the diamond retired because of (primarily) Amway income? Do you as an IBO have a projected date when you will "walk away" from the business and retire? When I was an IBO, I always wondered why nobody "walked away" from their business after they went diamond. I believe the answer is crystal clear. Because IBO turnover is so high, if a diamond were to walk away from the business, he would probably fall out of qualification in less than a year. The bonuses would disappear, and the diamond would probably have to look for a job. There are many examples of diamonds who have quit, and in some cases, went back to work.

Many unsuspecting prospects may be lured into the Amway business with the hope of an early retirement. Amway recruiters may mention that control of time and money is the key to success, but ironically, for most who sign up, will end up with less time and money than if they did not join at all. For many people. especially young people, it might be a good idea to seek financial advice from a professional and to make long term investment goals. Am investment of about $200 a month can net you close to a million bucks after 30 to 40 years.

Yes, there may be "some" people who retired early due to (primarily) Amway income. But I don't know any. And not a single Amway defender has ever been able to name one. It reminds me of bigfoot/sasquatch. Many reports and allegations are there that these creatures exist but there is no real evidence to support that such a creature actually exists.

Premium Products?

 I had a site visitor contact (some years back) me by email to toss insults and exchange views on Amway. He tells me that he is a regular user of Amway's "Perfect Water". Perfect water was presented some years back and IBOs were making all kinds of hoaxes and fake demonstrations. There were all kinds of zany claims and eventually, Amway had to issue a clarification that IBOs should not be making false claims that did not come from the corporation. There were these balance and flexibility tests that people allegedly benefited because of perfect water. It was a sham. Here's a good link to an article about it:

http://www.amquix.info/amway_perfect_water.html
Ironically, this IBO who claims to be concerned about his health, thus he drinks perfect water. The funny part is how he says he also drinks energy drinks as well. WTF? Energy drinks are not good for you as far as I know.

I presume that IBOs refer to Amway products as premium because it gives them a feeling of justification for paying Amway's ridiculous prices. A case of perfect water costs about $48 and that doesn't include shipping fees and applicable taxes. IBOs might pay less than $48 for a case of perfect water, but still, who in their right mind other than dream induced IBOs would be willing to pay that much for bottled water? I can go Wal-Mart or a local retailer and pay approximately $5 for a case of water. Someone can feel free to show what additional benefit someone would receive for paying nearly ten times more for a case of water other than a lighter wallet.

IBOs often claim that buying Amway products are like buying a Cadillac or a Lexus rather than a regular car. The problem with this is twofold. First of all, who other than Amway IBOs think of Amway products as the Cadillac of soaps and household cleaners? Obviously if Amway's products were so great, the market share would confirm that. How many people use Amway laundry soap compared to people using Tide for example? No contest! Secondly, even if Amway's products were the Cadillac of soaps (but it's not), the vast majority of people do not care! They are perfectly happy using Tide for their laundry and Dawn to wash their dishes. And they get it cheaper at local stores than IBOs can provide. It seems that only IBOs who have dreams of early retirement and residual income are buying these "Cadillac" products. I don't really know of former IBOs who are hard core loyal to Amway products. Some may exist but I highly doubt that these people are common.

In neutral comparisons such as consumer reports, Amway's cleaners and detergents were rated as basically average with "premium" prices. Maybe that's why Amway IBOs call Amway products "premium"? Because they charge premium prices As an IBO, I bought Amway products while I thought I might earn residual income. Once I realized the tool scam and quit, I never bought anymore Amway products. It is my conclusion that if Amway products are called premium, it is because thy carry premium prices, but not necessarily because of premium quality. Of course you are welcome to try and prove me wrong.

Wealth Creation?

 Amway can make you rich is what many uplines will proclaim. Many IBOs say they were told that Amway was not "get rich quick". But obviously, someone must have given them the impression that Amway would eventually make them rich, otherwise, why would anyone join? Why would anyone want to work that hard and embarrass themselves in front to friends and family to promote a business that will more likely get you more funny looks than money. But can Amway actually make you rich?

Well, yeah, Amway can make you rich if you are a diamond selling voicemail services, books, standing orders and function tickets. Amway can make you rich if you own Amway and sell to millions of IBOs who "buy from themselves". Amway can make you rich if you write a book that millions of IBOs purchase. Amway can make you rich if you can get enough loyal downline to keep purchasing products so that you can get the bonuses. But aside from these few people who I just described, the Amway opportunity is more likely to make you broke, or at least lighter in the pockets. The facts are there. Amway published them. It's called income disclosures. The average IBO earns around $200 a month, which is after "non active IBOs" are disregarded (Averages that do not include the entire IBO population are not true averages).   Thus, the average income of all IBOs is about $100 a month, which included the diamonds, platinum's and crown ambassadors. Do the math.

Most Amway IBOs do not even earn enough to cover their monthly voicemail expenditures, much less the other support materials that are pushed on the downline in groups such as WWDB or BWW, or N21. These materials are touted as the "key to success" in Amway when in reality, it is the key to success for the uplines who share in the profits from these materials. The real kicker is despite claims that these materials are key to success, the uplines get their followers to blame themselves if the system doesn't work for them. Kind of like tossing a coin and saying, "heads I win, tails you lose". Upline wins as long as you buy support materials from them, and your results are of no consequence to them. In fact, they probably don't want new diamonds as they would then have to share the tool s and functions income with them.  

So can Amway make you rich? I would guess it is possible, but it is also possible for you to win the Powerball lottery. It takes normally, over 100 downline IBOs to create a platinum ship. And a platinum ship is .26% according to Amway, which is roughly 1 in 400 IBOs. And at that level, you likely make a little profit or break even. Where is the wealth created by the Amway business?

Anonymous Comment?

 A blog visitor sent me this email. It might be helpful to some people, so I'll post it.

We were part of what im coming to find out as a smaller more unknown team in our region. I’ve run into many Amroids since I first joined until now, and they’ve always seemed to be part of N21 or BWW or WWDB but im not sure if our group was any of those? We were part of something called the UR Association. I believe through some unspoken issues years ago in upline, our group was adopted either to Dexter Yagers organization or from his organization. Its never been fully or properly explained to us. Anyway, my upline always had CDs from multiple organizations teaching systems, and we purchased them all. This was because we partly refused to sign up with URA and partly because we just didn’t have to money for that type of monthly fee. We weren’t on Kate either because of this. When my significant other (SO) and I first joined almost 4 years ago, we were typical for this business; broke, unemployed, and young. We went through the paces or coming out to the meetings as guests for free, attending some product expos, etc, until one day it started costing us as guests (we were still evaluating at the time) to attend the regular open meetings. Foolishly, we figured “well we might as well sign up then!”



Looking back now, all the signs were there for us to see since the start. After we got in, our uplines group slowly fell apart. I don’t believe I’ve ever seen his group grow or be on the rise since I joined. I was told of the glory days just months before of how there were over 100 people in his group attending functions, all the pin levels on his team, the recognitions they’ve received, etc. When we joined and he was on the decline, we thought nothing of it, as it was played off as normal and that “Some Will, Some Wont, So What, Some Where, Six Will, so Stop Whining, and Start Working”. We also attended a major Family Reunion shortly after officially signing up and again, the signs were always there, but we just never noticed. That function that we went to was the largest our upline Diamonds organization was we’d ever see. Our open meetings slowly began getting smaller, and we had to increase ticket costs to “pay for the room”. It went from an open meeting every 2 weeks at $5 to an open meeting once a month at $10. Over the years it started switching locations as well, from one hotel conference room to another, and now it is currently held at a Condo, in the main floors’ lobby room (I believe there is still a cost incurred)



One of the CDs that we were always so “keen” to listen to was one by a young diamond from the US, who built a good portion of his organization in Hawaii and in the western states. He’s young, funny, relatable, and therefore an obvious hit with our young group. Anyway, on his CD he mentions that the only “negative thing that can be found online about Amway is that we allegedly make all our money off books and CDs”. Im loosely paraphrasing, but basically he went on saying “…like that’s a bad thing. Think about it, whats the first thing you do when you are successful at something? Golfing, any sport, a business? Don’t you write a book, cut a CD and go on public speaking events?!” Which of course when twisted around it does seem to make sense, so we never really questioned it. We thought Wow these are totally honest about it! Theres not really much else to write about at this point, like I said earlier, a lot of your blogs were 100% correct about what still goes on. The mind games, what uplines say, whats said at opens, all of it. My SO and I reached a max of I believe 300/400 PV and 200PV respectively. SO had a slightly larger group (we were building it separately at the time) with maybe 5-6 downline at its peak, and I had maximum 2. We’ve been in it for 4 years and have seen no results. Despite having no money for monthly subscriptions to books and CDs, we were core. We tried our best to get the proper 50/150, we always used all the products and promoted it like crazy. We tried contacting all the time, and showed plans whenever we could. We listened, read, attended all functions, were accountable, honest, and the only thing we didn’t have was Kate. But the results were never there. Even with the amount of downline each of us had at our maximum, we still never broke more then 300-400PV. It just wasn’t happening. Since we’ve stopped, I have purchased a new(er) car, 2010 top trim, and with a 1 year delayed gratification goal, we saved enough money for a destination vacation paid for in cash. We spared no expense while we were there and bought all sorts of gifts for our friends and ourselves. We are also planning more trips in this coming year.


There are little details here and there im sure i could mention about the really crazy BS we've been through, but perhaps another time :) we're in a phase right now of not thinking about it or dealing with it.

Thanks for reading!

"Anon"

Humorous Comment?

 A comment left on the blog. My commentary is below:

Anonymous wrote:
So let me ask you this, all the time you people spend bashing amway or whatever you want to call it what has it accomplished for you?? Yes I am in Amway. Yes I am an IBO. Do I consider my self an ambot or some other term you people like to call it? nope. If you people got into amway became IBO's were lazy and didn't build your business your own way than I pity you all. You are suckers. You chose to go an spend your money on motivational CD's and Tapes. You chose to follow the poor advise of you got form your upline or you were just plain lazy and couldn't sell, so you quit and decided to place the blame elsewhere besides yourself. I don't see how people think the products are over priced. I find the Vitamins to be less expensive and of better quality then stuff I'd find in GNC, Vitamin Shoppe and other such stores. The Cleaning products work great and are much less expensive than the likes of Lysol, 409, Tide, Gain, Pine sol etc etc. The Energy drinks are also pretty damn good vs the likes of sugar loaded crap like Red bull, Monster and other such drinks. So again I say too you what is there to bash? You suck selling easy to market items that is your fault not the business model fault. I don't go to meetings, I don't listen to CD's. When my upline says I should go to a convention or do something I don't want to do I simply say "NO, I'm doing fine with out it" I get my checks every month and I am doing just fine. My business is growing and I couldn't be happier. This whole planet has a problem at placing blame on others instead of living up to your own inequities. Most people can't hack it as IBO's cause they get sucked into the "GET RICH QUICK" idea and forget it's a BUSINESS that you need to invest TIME and ENERGY for it to grow!! Go open a brick and mortar store tomorrow and tell me how you do your first week, month, year. It is just really sad how all I hear is "amway is a scam!" well so is corporate America and 90% of business in general nobody seems to have a problem with Wall Street or the Financial institutions that scamed ohh what 150+ BILLION from the tax payers? wake up people! stop being sheep! think for yourself and stop blaming everyone else for your own stupid mistakes!



Joe's Commentary: Where am I "bashing" Amway"? For the record, I do this as a public service and sort of as a hobby.  Since most people lose money chasing the dream as promoted by Amway diamonds, not doing anything is usually financially beneficial for most people.  Therefore, how can Amway be treated as a good business opportunity if this is the case?

The cleaning products are not necessarily better or cheaper than others.  The energy drinks such as red bull and monster come in sugar free varieties so they're not all full of sugar. And they are cheaper than XS drinks.  Unbiased product comparisons typically come out in favor of Amway's competitors.  I haven't seen any unbiased reviews where Amway wins when factoring in price and value.

Notice how the commentator says his business is growing but does not mention a profit. LOL The comment then calls corporate America a scam. So what if it is? It doesn't take Amway off the hook does it?  I got a few good laughs so thanks for the comment.

p.s.  Notice the grammar?

Critical Mistakes?

 In professional sports, whether it be football, basketball or baseball, there are many close games. In close games, a critical mistake made will likely cost your team the game. A good example of this would be a football team trying score the winning touchdown, but they commit a game changing turnover. Or a baseball pitcher slips and throws a fastball up in the zone and it gets hammered for a home run. Or a basketball player shooting fouls shots but missing in the last minute of the game. A critical mistake nearly assures you of failure.

In my opinion one of the most critical mistakes that many IBOs make is to ignore the bottom line when analyzing their Amway businesses. I recall, in my experience, business building IBOs, sadly, taught by their uplines to ignore losses, or to view losses as investments into their businesses, or that money is really not important, because you keep building the business and the "money will be there", which is not true. Some uplines may teach that the business is really about making friends or being a nicer person. All of these things may be nice side benefits of reading personal development books or attending functions, etc., but when running a business, the most important goal should be to turn a profit. The sole purpose of a business should be to sell a product or service for a profit. Period.

For many IBOs, their businesses consist of listening to standing orders, attending functions and meetings, but not focused on selling products and earning a net profit. And for most IBOs, nobody can blame them as upline may give them bad advice and because the Amway business is person to person selling, it is so inefficient that many groups end up teaching IBOs to simply buy their own volume and get others to join the business. For groups who operate primarily in this manner, you are probably running an illegal pyramid business because new and existing IBOs can profit only by continuing to add more downline IBOs in the hope that they too, will buy their own volume and sponsor others.

When you look carefully at the business plan, whether it is 6-4-2, 9-4-2 or some other variation, the majority of these business building IBOs will have low volume and likely to earn only about $10 a month. But to earn that $10 a month, you are likely to have to spend $300 on products, and if you are on standing order, voicemail and functions, then you likely spend anywhere from $150 to $250 monthly (or more) to participate in the teaching system. Thus these IBO's bottom line is a net loss! It is only when you are able to sponsor many downline that your losses will get smaller and you will only profit when you have a sizable downline. That means your bottom line is a loss. And while Amway defenders will argue that Walmart doesn't even give you $10 a month, you can certainly get more products from Walmart for $300 than you can get from Amway for the same price. Walmart will match any advertised price on a product that they and a competitor may carry. Also, Walmart's advertising reaching millions of people, which is much more effective than person to person. While Amway runs some ads now days, they do not directly drive customers to IBOs. The vast majority of IBO business is still to themselves and their downline, and not to non IBO customers.

I challenge IBOs to look objectively at their bottom lines. It is likely a net loss. If it is, ask your upline how long this is expected to last. Set hard goals and if you are doing what is advised by upline and results do not improve, you may have to ask yourself what will change to make your business profitable? Basically, if you aren't adding active downlines and customers regularly, you aren't going anywhere and are likely to be running your business at a loss month after month after month. It won't take long before you realize that you have lost thousands if not tens of thousands of dollars. Uplines often say insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

As a former IBO with a 4000 PV business with eagle parameters, I was not making a net profit. I saw my bottom line and although doing and achieving what my upline advised, there was little to no money. I decided the effort, time and money invested wasn't worth it. Plus my upline started to interfere in my personal life. I saw my bottom line and wasn't satisfied, and I left Amway. I later discovered the lies my upline had fed me to keep me in the business and to keep me buying tools. It is why I started blogging. For now, my bottom line is to get the truth out about the tools scam run by upline. That is Joecool's bottom line.

Why IBOs Can't Build Amway?

 Building an Amway business. That's what many IBOs set out to do, except they don't know how to build a business, and based on IBO behavior and the things they say and do, it makes me wonder what their upline actually knows about building a business. A typical business owner will get started, and needs people to know that their business is there.  Advertising and getting people to know that your business exists is one important facet of a business.  

When you open a store or a restaurant, you may not make a lot of money initially, because not enough customers know about your store, and you have not yet built a reputation. New customers who have a good experience are likely to return for more, and they are also likely to tell others about your store. Over time, you create a customer base and your weekly sales become consistent and somewhat predictable. Conversely, if customers have a bad experience, they are likely to tell others as well.  Predictability is important for businesses.  But in Amway, people come and go in droves, many signing up and not doing a thing.

In the Amway business, many IBOs have no idea about building a business. They are shown great (apparent) wealth by upline, and then told that their business activity consists of showing the plan, listening to standing orders and attending functions. Most of an IBO's activity, as prescribed by upline, costs money instead of generating sales. Some uplines do teach IBOs to sell items, but more often than not, it is not taught as a priority.  Sales are often an afterthought, likely because the average person doesn't like to sell anything.  

What's more, as I said, a new business will get repeat customers when a customer has a good experience. What do you suppose happens when IBOs lie or trick people into attending Amway meetings, or deceive people about their business? What happens when you embellish the truth about success and then cannot provide an answer when a recruit asks and IBO how they are doing in the Amway business? What happens when an IBO tells a potential recruit that he or she is a loser or stupid for not joining Amway? Would you return to a store if they called you stupid as you were leaving? What if you were called a loser?

These are the reasons why IBOs in general cannot get enough customers to sustain a consistent and predictable level of sales, and why over the years, Amway has at best a spotty reputation. Just the mention of the name Amway and you may get funny looks from people. It is why certain internet zealots promoting Amway do more harm than good.

What If Everyone Joined?

 The point of this blog post is to illustrate that the Amway opportunity is simply not sustainable and that the market is basically saturated in North America. I know Amway in the past, released some propaganda on the average IBO income being up, but once again, a clear explanation of how they derived the numbers was not given. For all we know, they have simply excluded more IBOs by declaring them as "inactive". Anytime I heard the word Amway, it frequently draws funny looks from people. I know that Amway proponents will claim that Amway is not saturated, but in real life, you aren't going to have people lining up to join. It is why there are countless stories of people being lied to or tricked into attending recruitment meetings.  When I say saturated, obviously it's not because everyone is signed up in Amway, but Amway is not a new market or opportunity, thus, it takes a lot of work to find unsuspecting or people who don't have a negative opinion about Amway.

So, in reviewing the common 6-4-2 plan, there are 79 IBOs and one becomes a platinum. And that is with the generous assumption that all of these IBOs are moving 100 PV consistently each month. Factor in some folks who do little or nothing and some who order infrequently, and anyone can reasonably conclude that a platinum business will commonly have well over 100 downline IBOs. Now with that being said, what if everyone in the entire world suddenly had an epiphany and decided to join Amway?

Well, the structure of most platinum businesses won't change. You will still likely have more than 100 downline in each platinum group. The platinum might make some money, depending on their commitment to tools and functions, and most downline, especially those on the system of cds and functions will lose money. Thus, less than 1% of the IBO population can realistically be a platinum at any given time. Whether the entire planet signs up for Amway, it will always be less than 1% of the IBO population at the platinum level. That is how the system is set up. The only exceptions to this rule would be for IBOs to sell enough PV to make up for a lack of downline. But there is ample testimony and evidence to indicate that many IBOs simply self-consume their PV because they cannot or do not like selling. Some AMO groups teach IBOs to almost exclusively consume their own volume. My former LOS, WWDB did not emphasize selling, but focused on recruiting. And why not? The reality is you cannot go emerald or diamond without many downlines.

So even if every person on earth joined Amway, there would still be less than 1% of IBOs at the platinum level and very likely that less than 1% of IBOs would be at a net profit. Some proponents argue that many IBOs sign up and do nothing or sign up and don't order products. So what? They are still IBOs and even if you didn't count them in averages, what I have posted above explains why the success rate (platinum) still cannot amount to much more than 1% even at the best case scenario.

Still thinking about registering for Amway? Do your research and you may want to think about this article.

Employee Mentality?

 One of the really funny things that is taught to IBOs is how they need to ditch the employee mentality and convert to a business owner mentality. Those who truly have a business mentality are unlikely to join Amway the systems because the return on investment wouldn't be worth it. When you also consider that only a small fraction of 1% make any significant money in Amway, it's hard to imagine that any reasonable and logical person would want to divert time, money and effort into a venture where your likelihood of succeeding and making money is so small.

When you really stop and think about it, many IBOs have an employee mentality but they think they are thinking like business owners because upline tells them so. The relationship between upline and downline is often just like that of a supervisor and employee. The upline tells you what to do and the downline, who is usually less experienced, simply listens and follows their instructions. If an IBO were to do things on their own, it would be considered as de-edifying to upline who has already blazed the trail for you. They have what many refer to as the "system" consisting of cds, books, voicemail and functions. Many refer to the system as "CORE" steps.

Basically, the CCRE steps is the "job" of the IBO. They need to immerse themselves in the system, and then they need to show the plan to others and get others to follow them. The really sad thing is that many IBOs do exactly as they are told or advised, and never see a cent of profit, and more often than not, end up losing money despite their efforts and expenses. It's like going to work, and giving your boss $300 so you can get a $10 paycheck at the end of the month. While Amway loyalists will disagree, this scenario is the most common and most likely. All you have to do is take a look at the 6-4-2 or whatever plan they show you. The lowest level IBOs will spend about $300 to purchase their 100 PV and then they get back about $10 at the end of the month. Most IBOs never sponsor downline so their volume never grows unless they consume more themselves. Most IBOs, even dedicated ones, can never sell enough products to cover their expenses. Faced with these obvious facts, anyone can see why you are almost guaranteed failure in Amway with the system.

If IBOs truly had a business mentality, they would be focused on selling products and not desperately trying to sponsor downline. They would also focus on minimizing expenses. But most business building IBOs are selling the opportunity and a dream, which is why some critics claim that the Amway opportunity, lacking a focus on retail sales, is crossing into the parameters of the law. Those who focus on "buy from yourself" without outside sales are the worst offenders in my opinion. If you have an employee mentality, then it's likely you will listen to what your upline says and do your "CORE" duties. What kind of mentality do you have?

Funny Amway Quotes?

Over the years, I've seen and heard all kinds of things, including wild claims and utter BS on this blog.  I've compiled some of the best highlights for your reading enjoyment.    I had to ROTFLMAO.  :)

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"Strictly speaking, all make money, regardless. Zero is a real quantity. So, making zero money is like making zero money for it is measurable. If zero were irrelevant, why does the decimal system make use of this quantity? Just as the digit one has its virtues so does zero. Hopefully though, you are looking at more than zero if you like to play with numbers. If you don't, zero is a perfect, neutral choice. But don't complain about it to others! It's your choice!"

"Plus people get annoyed because the Amway people they know try to recruit them and sell them things, taking advantage of personal relationships to build their business."

"just about anything they can peddle out the door to the sellers who purchase it at inflated prices who then make money when the people under them sell the junk to somebody else who has been swindled with the "dream" of SCAMway. It is a pyramid scheme but they get around that with a few legal manuvers. They hold these giant pay your own way in rallies that consist of a bunch of oversexed hair sprayed bozo's manipulating people with motivational speeches."

" So he comes over and, you guessed it, tried to sell us on amway, both buying the products and becoming one of his sales "associates". We pretty much asked him to leave as politely as we could. Yes, this really happened and yes, we complained to the school. Amway people are some of the most brainwashed cultish people I have ever talked to. Right up there with boshbots"

"Another guy saying the economy and stock market were going to collapse and our only hope for the future is Amway since 401Ks and IRAs will all become worthless. Most of the tapes were full of religious right bilge too. I dropped out after finding out how much money the DeVos family donates to Repugs."

"While all you broke losers are going to work I will be sleeping in. I will make sure that I hire you to clean my toilets. And don't worry I will make sure that you get good benefits"

"The thing is, is that the higher-ups don't make their money on selling products, they make their money on selling audio tapes to the newbies, and intermediates. You know, the kind that supposedly will help you "sell better" ect... Anywho, that's my experience. They're all really just creepy."

"Early 90s. Friend of mine keeps hinting about his new "business," and how I need to "get on board." He is very coy and will not tell me the name of the company. Wife and I spend next two hours telling him, "This sounds just like that Amway crap," proceed to tell him every horror story we know about Amway, and essentially grind the Amway name into the ground. He leaves and I run into his brother a few days later. His bro asks me, "So, has my brother tried to sell you that soap stuff?" "Soap stuff?", I ask. "Yeah. He's selling that Amway crap." Never heard a peep from my friend about his new "business" again."

"Just admit that you didn't have the 'balls ' to build this business.
I going to be retiring in the next 6 mths making $5000 a mth. So eat that crybabies!"

"My upline diamond makes more money taking a crap in the morning than you make all year"

"Yes, I am! My first cheque was $ 7.85 and my second cheque in going to be more. Why? Leverage! I just signed up my first business partner as part of my up until now, a one man team. Besides, he has someone who wants to sign up too. That's exciting news! I change some of my buying habits and I help others build business by teaching them how to do the same."

"If the dream is big enough, the facts don't matter!"

"For your information buddy, my last check was $ 15.66. That is more than eight, don't you think? So yeah, you can pass by $ 15.66 too on your way to financial freedom for you are not stuck at $ 15.66 just because that's the top money one can possibly ever make!"

Is The Amway Opportunity Like Gambling?

 Let me make a disclaimer right off the top so Amway defenders don't try to discredit the post without reading it. The Amway opportunity is not a game of chance. But I will go on to explain how and why the opportunity can be compared to gambling and why the diamonds can be seen as a casino or the "house".

In the Amway opportunity, the odds against someone going diamond are astronomical. Literally tens of  millions of people (or more) have attempted to build an Amway business in North America over the years and diamond club for North American diamonds (In Maui, Hawaii (some years back had 160 diamond-ships represented. Certainly, some north American diamonds may have turned down a free trip to Hawaii but I'm guessing that's not a big number.  Isn't that a perk of being a diamond? 

The odds are also stacked in favor of the diamonds. Casinos are not built by winners, but by the hordes of losers. Just as a diamond business is not built by having a foundation of winners, but layers and layers of IBOs who are losing. The Amway opportunity is simply set up that way. Look at your common 6-4-2 plan or whatever version your group uses. The newest or biggest layer of IBOs make very little and when you factor in expenses such as functions or standing orders, the losses can be staggering.

A diamond, like a casino will attract many young dreamers who think they can conquer the world and will get rich. They use bright lights and profile former winners just as Diamonds show off fancy cars and testimonies to lure in recruits. The newness of the opportunity gets you excited, just as someone walking into a casino might feel the excitement with the sounds of the casino. All you need is some effort and little luck, right? Sadly, that excitement is all too often replaced with the harsh reality that most must lose in order for there to be a few winners, both in casinos and the Amway business.

Like casinos and diamond uplines, there is much caring for active IBOs and for players who are spending their money in casinos. But once you walk out of the casino, there is no special treatment, just as an IBO who stops building a business or stops being core quickly becomes forgotten and shunned. In Amway, people who said they were lifelong friends were never heard from again once an IBO missed a few meetings. If you re-emerge, you will find the love again, just as you will get free drinks and possibly other comps when you start gambling again.

And yes, there are some exceptional people who can scratch out a nice living by gambling, but they are few and far between, just as there are diamonds, but diamonds also have thousands of people who wanted diamond but could not achieve it. Those who can finally make it usually have an exceptional blend of skill and a bit of luck. Some even cheat/lie in order to gain a bigger edge, both in gambling and in Amway.

Like a gambling "system", the Amway opportunity has "systems". In either opportunity, the system doesn't work for the masses. There are an exceptional few who can make it work. Except in gambling, most people understand that the odds are stacked against them. In Amway, many new IBOs are told that anyone and everyone can succeed when it simply is not true.

Can you fulfill your dreams by gambling or with the Amway opportunity? The answer is yes, but the reality is that few (A tiny fraction of 1%) will ever do so. Like casinos and Amway diamond-ships, both are built on the backs of those who lose, not on those who win.

Do Amway IBOs Judge People?

 One of the things that my upline taught, and I believe is still taught today in various groups is that winners join Amway and losers do not. Or that you were a winner because you were doing something to better your financial future and those who didn't were losers. or broke minded. Of course, the upline who said this had no knowledge about those who were not in Amway. Some of them may already have been financially sound or may have been doing something to better their financial future. I'm not sure why these uplines, who promote "positive", had to resort to calling people losers simply because they did not agree that Amway was the greatest thing since sliced bread. It's only positive if it's Amway related and anything non-Amway is negative. Anyone see a problem with this?

In many games or sporting events, there will be someone or a team that wins the game and someone or a team that loses the game. Losing a game doesn't make you a loser and certainly, a team that wins the game would not say the losing team were losers. Can you imagine a Superbowl winning team's coach taking the podium after a game and saying his team won because the other team was a bunch or broke minded gutless losers? That would never happen, yet we see that frequently in the Amway/IBO world. The owner of Amway, Rich DeVos had once said in a recorded message that just because people do not agree with you (paraphrased) about Amway, does not make them losers and that IBOs should not call people losers. I believe this has been crafted by upline to apply pressure to downline IBOs to "never quit'.

In all of this, people's jobs are also criticized. That a job stands for "just over broke" or "jackass of the boss" and other insults. Many IBO's goals and dreams consist of ditching their job so they can sleep until "the crack of noon" and live a life of luxury. Ironically, it is most IBO's jobs that continue to produce income so they can pay their bills and feed their family. It is also an IBO's job that funds their Amway and AMO expenses such as product purchases and functions and voicemail, etc. Without having a job, most people could not even join Amway or pay for any tools. Sadly, most IBOs won't make any money in Amway either, or will have to continue to work at their jobs. I do not believe that someone earning an honest living working a job is a loser. Ironically, many of the folks calling people losers and broke are not even netting a profit from their Amway business!

Yes, in this business or the sports world, there will be winners and there will be losers. The question is whether you are the one who is allowed to be the judge of who is and who isn't. I would also suggest that IBOs are completely shutting down potential future business by their behavior. What if I went to a store to purchase something but the item was not available on that particular day, so I don't purchase anything and leave. As I leave, the store owner says I am a loser for not buying something there. Will I go back? Very unlikely. If an IBO truly sees themselves as a store owner, all prospects should be seen as potential business, whether future or present. If your upline tells you that people not interested are losers, you should hand him a mirror. Or inform your upline that when you point a finger at someone, there are even more fingers pointing back at you.

Losers?

 One of the things that my upline taught, and I believe is still taught today in various groups is that winners join Amway and losers do not. Or that you were a winner because you were doing something to better your financial future and those who didn't were losers, or broke minded. Of course, the upline who said this had no knowledge about those who were not in Amway. Some of them may already have been financially sound or may have been doing something to better their financial future. I'm not sure why these uplines, who promote "positive", had to resort to calling people losers simply because they did not agree that Amway was the greatest thing since sliced bread.

In many games or sporting events, there will be someone or a team that wins the game and someone or a team that loses the game. Losing a game doesn't make you a loser and certainly, a team that wins the game would not say the losing team were losers. Can you imagine a pro football team's coach taking the podium after a game and saying his team won because the other team was a bunch or broke minded gutless losers? That would never happen, yet we see that frequently in the Amway/IBO world. The owner of Amway, Rich DeVos had once said in a recorded message that just because people do not agree with you (paraphrased) about Amway, does not make them losers and that IBOs should not call people losers.

In all of this, people's jobs are also criticized. That a job stands for "just over broke" or "jackass of the boss" and other blurbs. Many IBO's goals and dreams consist of ditching their job so they can sleep all day and live a life of luxury. Ironically, it is most IBO's jobs that continue to produce income so they can pay their bills and feed their family. It is also an IBO's job that funds their Amway and AMO expenses such as product purchases and functions and voicemail, etc. Without having a job, most people could not even join Amway or pay for any tools. Sadly, most IBOs won't make any money in Amway either, and will have to continue to work at their jobs. I do not believe that someone earning an honest living working a job is a loser. Ironically, the folks calling people losers are often not even netting a profit from their Amway business!

Yes, in this business or the sports world, there will be winners and there will be losers. The question is whether you are the one who is allowed to be the judge of who is and who isn't. I would also suggest that IBOs are completely shutting down potential future business by their behavior. What if I went to a store to purchase something but the item was not available on that particular day, so I don't purchase anything and leave. As I leave, the store owner says I am a loser for not buying something there. Will I go back? Very unlikely. If an IBO truly sees themselves as a store owner, all prospects should be seen as potential business, whether future or present. If your upline tells you that people not interested are losers, you should hand him a mirror.

The Millionaire Mentality?

 A comment left by an anonymous site visitor:

"I love Amway. I just don't understand why people have to be negative about it. I don't hurt or steal from anyone yet I make money. I'm not a millionaire as of yet but working towards that goal. It's called "millionaire mentality". Joecool, you will never succeed with penny mentality."

Joecool's commentary:

It would be my informed opinion that most diamonds do not have a millionaire mentality. If you see how they spend money and how they flaunt excessive wealth, I see people who could win the Powerball lottery and wind up broke. They might earn a nice income (even if it may come by lying and deceiving), but they spend it all, and possibly more by portraying the diamond lifestyle. In my opinion, the diamond lifestyle as portrayed in functions such as "Dream night" are not sustainable.  For this reason, we are now seeing evidence of this such as a triple diamond who was in chapter 7 bankruptcy proceedings, diamonds losing homes to foreclosures. We are seeing diamonds selling their mansions. Sure, they might be downsizing or liquidating their assets, but if these homes have been paid in cash as they claim, why sell them in a bad real estate market? Why not wait a few years?

In the past, I have posted some articles showing the traits and characteristics of millionaires. Many of these articles cite saving, investing, and living below your means. Many wealthy people drive regular everyday cars and live in the suburbs. They don't commonly have Porsches, and jaguars. And for the record, the average diamond income, as reported by Amway, isn't all that much when you factor in business expenses and taxes. So why do diamonds try to show off wealth?

I believe diamonds show off wealth because it is a way to attract recruits. Because the Amway opportunity has a high turnover rate, nobody can reasonably "walk away" from their business and have cash rolling in for long. Attrition would eat away your business in a matter of days or weeks. It is why I believe diamonds do not walk away from their businesses, because they can't afford to. The business requires constant attention or it will crumble faster than stake cookies.

Most IBOs are simply fooled into thinking they are developing into having a millionaire mentality. An honest question for IBOs. How do you even know if your upline diamond is a millionaire? Anyone, even a broke guy can wear a nice suit and show off pictures of mansions and sports cars. For that matter, how do you know if your upline diamond is currently qualified as a diamond? Amway doesn't release that information except for new pins.

In my opinion, diamond's displays of excessive wealth and luxury portrays something, but it's not the millionaire mentality.

The Real Scam?

 A lot of people come and go in Amway, but many of those who come and go don't even notice the scam. They get sold on what they believe is a business opportunity that they can make some money at, or at the very least save some money on products that they would normally buy anyway. If they do it right, they can possibly make some "real" money and with some had work, you can build it right and have the option one day of walking away from Amway and living off ongoing residual income from Amway. It sounds reasonable and therein lies the scam.

For years, I have challenged people to name 2-3 people, aside from the Amway owners, who joined, built the business "right" and was able to walk away and retire with ongoing residual income, enough to be financially free forever. Not a single person has been able to name and confirm that even a single person has done this. I believe it's all a lie and part of the scam. Amway's distributor force turns over about 50% each year. How can you build a residual income empire when half of your downline quits each year? I believe Amway diamonds trade their 9-5 jobs for the night shift. They work at night and into the morning hours because they are working to replace people who quit and to support downline platinums who might struggle or fail to re-qualify for that level. If upline says they are working for the love of their downline, I call BS on that. If walking away and enjoying life was an option, why hasn't anyone chosen it?

Now you could argue that a diamond's "work" isn't that bad, and they aren't reporting to a boss. And that would be true, but I imagine the pressure of churning people in and out to keep qualifying can be stressful in itself. If you live on an island like me, you can eventually have trouble finding new people to work with. In 1997 or so, there were a bunch of diamonds in Hawaii and they all moved to the mainland. Now I"m not sure why but my upline diamond was Harimoto, who loved the ocean and the beaches. Yet he moved to Washington state. I believe they needed new grounds to mine, just like gold miners.

The next part of the scam is how IBOs will tell you about Amway's generous money back guarantee. 100% they'll tell you. What they don't tell you is that the guarantee is only on some of the products and the sign up fee. The cds, books, voicemail and functions are not sold or run by Amway. And these expenses can be very significant over a period of time. IBOs and prospects need to know this. You can lose thousands and get back pennies on the dollar asking for a refund on the sign up fee and perhaps a few products. Another piece of the scam.

Also, IBOs and prospects are often shown only the very best case scenario (such as going diamond) but not told that your chance of being struck by lightning is much higher than your chance of going diamond, even though going diamond is not a random event. A real life and likely scenario is getting in and trying hard for a while, and then quitting with some business losses. At least if you know this and still try anyway, you will have done so with full disclosure.

Lastly, it's insidious in my opinion, for upline to tell you to trust them and to do as they say, and then turn around and tell IBOs that failure is their responsibility. That they didn't work hard enough or do thing just right. That sure isn't what they are preaching when recruiting you into the business. They are saying how sharp you are and how you're likely to tear up the business. But it's just another facet of the scam. I've outlined the parts of the opportunity that I believe are scams, but I'm sure it's not limited to my point of view.

Good luck if you read this and join anyway.

Artificial Intelligence View On Amway?

 Out of curiosity, I asked my Microsoft Co-Pilot AI (artificial intelligence) if Amway was a poor business opportunity.   The initial part of the response was how you can register as an affiliate for $55.   It goes on to speak about different levels in Amway such as affiliate or a higher level  where you recruit downline, etc.   It also mentions that income increases when you sponsor downline, creating a leadership group.  This is general basic knowledge for people somewhat familiar with the Amway opportunity and the details.

The interesting part is the discussion about the challenges and controversies surrounding the Amway opportunity.  

1.  Amway has faced criticism for its pyramid like structure where recruitment plays a significant role in earning income.  

While Amway was reviewed by the FTC in the past, they were found not to have qualified as an illegal pyramid.  However, this is not to say that Amway was exonerated or spoke of as a good example by the FTC, which is what some Amway IBOs and defenders like to spew on the internet.  Indeed, Amway was fined at one time for $100,000 for violating that 1979 ruling.  In this case, Amway apparently had ads that misrepresented income claims.

was amway fined in 1986 - Search (bing.com)

2.  The company (Amway) imposes strict requirements and sometimes unrealistic goals, making success challenging for many.  

For example, Amway has very strict rules about advertising and other factors that make it difficult to move products to the general public.  And if you have any disputes about these rules and regulations, you appeal to Amway, who gets to be the arbiter of these rules.  Can anyone really challenge and multi billion dollar corporation and win?  I find it highly unlikely, next to impossible.

3.  Amway affiliates cannot sell Amway products on platforms like Amazon or EBay, limiting their options.

So IBOs cannot use retail outlets or even ecommerce giants to move Amway products,  Thus, IBOs can sell person to person.  That is a restriction that is likely to hinder the opportunity to move a high volume of products.  I don't understand this rule because once an IBO makes a purchase from Amway, they get to restrict how that product is marketed to the public?  Maybe there's something I don't know about this, but you'd think Amway would want the market flooded with their products.   During the covid pandemic, online businesses like Amazon went through the roof and sales were booming.  If I'm not mistaken, Amway sales were lower or flat compared to pre-pandemic levels.  Amway had at one time peaked about just over 11 billion (I believe) but their sales and revenues has since dropped.  

And these restrictions are imposed by the corporation but doesn't include charging premium prices for generic in nature types of products, generally speaking.  If you remove any bias from your mind, take a look at what you can purchase from Amway for $100 and see what you can get from Costco or Wal Mart for similar products.  (Costco and Wal Mart don't sell Amway products).   Secondarily, the Amway name reputation has suffered from IBO lies and behavior.  For example, calling people broke or losers because they don't agree that Amway is a great deal.  All these factors add up to what the opportunity is:  A revolving door with high IBO turnover and the potential for business losses.  Is seems as if the longer you stay in and participate in the tools and training systems, the losses mount and become staggering in some cases.  

I know AI still needs to be scrutinized and double checked, but the AI response on Amway is correct, based on my experiences and in my own opinion. 

 

  

The "System"?

 Based on my experience in Amway, my blogging experience, and observation of other people who give financial advice such as real estate gurus who teach you to buy property with no money down, or others such as Robert Kiyosaki for that matter, commonly show testimonials of successful people. In the end, this is as effective as showing all the people who won the lottery. Focus attention on the people who won but ignore the millions of people who failed trying to accomplish the same thing. Obviously, they do not show you the vast majority of people who try their systems and fail.

It is my informed opinion that whether it is Amway, WWDB, BWW, N21, real estate or the cash flow business, the vast majority of people who try these systems do not make any kind of significant income. Sure, some do, and those are shown as the possibilities. But if you watch infomercials for these "systems", you will see in small print on the bottom of the screen, "unique experience", your results may vary. I believe that a similar message is used at the end of Amway diamond recordings and audios as well. The diamonds basically present only the best-case scenario to prospects while ignoring the most likely results.

These systems in general do not work for various reasons. Many people simply do not have the acumen to work the system. Or the system has too many variables for the system to work, or the system calls for things beyond your control. For example, success in Amway generally requires you to sponsor others, something that is beyond the control of most people. Add in the lazy and people who are hoping for a quick score and it is understandable that most will fail. But these systems are often set up where the majority simply cannot all succeed. Nowhere is that truer than the Amway business where the pyramidal compensation plan nearly guarantees failure for the vast majority of lower level IBOs. The 6-4-2 plan shows 79 IBOs with 1 platinum. Thus, even with everyone in the groups earning a bonus, (practically impossible), you have 1 in 79 achieving platinum, which is the level where you allegedly begin to break even or make a small profit, depending on your level of commitment to the "system".

So what can someone do? Well, it may not be as sexy or attractive but a part time job and investing and saving might be something to think about. Even a part time business where you focus on selling products for a profit might work. It just seems prudent to avoid these "systems" as the primary beneficiary of these "systems" are the ones who directly profit from them - the upline diamonds.

All Show, No Go?

 Back when I was in college, many young folks were car enthusiasts and tried to fix up older classic cars like a 67 Camaro for example. Some folks would just buy a new car and add on some trinkets to make the car stand out in a crowd. But one of the sayings we had for cars that looked nice, but whose engine had no power, was "All Show and No Go".

Many Amway IBOs and Uplines are very likely to be "All Show And no Go". They talk a good game. They make claims and try to show off fancy toys and things, allegedly obtained with success in Amway. But shine the light on the truth and you will likely see a different picture.  It is why you often saw a parking lot full of beat up cars at functions.  But everyone wears a suit and a nice smile.

On a bigger scale, I believe the major function called Winter Conference, formerly called "Dream Nite", is one where diamonds would show videos or slide shows of mansions, yachts, sports cars, jet skis, golf club memberships, shopping sprees and other kinds of fabulous wealth, all the while proclaiming that it is through Amway that all of this can be achieved. Do as we do, and you will have what we have, is what I heard, and I believe it is still the case today. But despite these claims, more and more evidence is available to show that diamonds may not be what they seem.

Ruth Carter's book (Amway Motivational Organizations: Behind The Smoke And Mirrors) exposed a diamond who had a nice, income, but lived beyond their means and were actually heavily in debt. We have also seen diamonds whose homes were foreclosed. Some of these diamonds may have spoken about paying for everything in cash, including their homes. Diamonds quitting (busts the lifelong residual income myth doesn't it?), diamonds moving to a new MLM, etc. It all points to one thing which is clear in my mind. The diamond lifestyle is not what it is portrayed to be, in many cases. Now I am not saying that a crown ambassador or some other tenured diamonds are not wealthy, I'm sure there are some who are, but they are few and far between. They are the exception and not the rule, in my opinion.

It's all show and no go. Like the Texan with the nice hat with no cattle, or the nice car with a weak engine. It's a show, or a facade for many. They give the appearance of success in order to attract new recruits but behind the scenes, might be living in debt, and/or living from bonus check to bonus check. Let the buy beware!