Feeling Sorry?

 One of the things I recall as an Amway IBO myself was thinking how sorry I felt for people who were not IBOs because we were all going to be rich and everyone else was a loser. Our upline used to tell us that we were winners - and if you weren't a winner, then obviously, you are a loser. Many times, the term "broke" was attached to the term loser. That was my mindset back then, but having been out of the system more than 25 years, I can look back and laugh, realizing that the losers were the ones buying stuff they don't need, stalking people at malls and bookstores, and wasting their time and money on tapes (cds), books and functions. 

What goes unnoticed in many cases, is how much time and money really goes down the drain for IBOs who work the system. Your life revolves around the business if you are dedicated and hard core. You are always looking for prospects and people to show the plan to, and you have to rearrange your schedules, or outright skip social or family gatherings because of the never-ending number of meetings and functions, many of which teach you nothing about running a profitable business. When I first left the Amway business, I was sort of angry at the time and effort that was wasted, along with the cash I threw down the crapper.  Because uplines teach most IBOs to accept failure as their own fault. most people simply quit, blame themselves and walk away.  I decided to start blogging to help others avoid falling into the same trap that I did. 

But after I did finally cut ties with the business and the people associated with it, I got back into a routine of sorts. I focused on my job and after some years of gaining experience and working my way up the corporate ladder, I received some promotions, and I retired at the age of 55 with a decent retirement income and my house paid off.  So, while I did have to work a dreaded job to be able to retire, pretty much all IBOs are also working a job or business PLUS having to expend their time and money to run their Amway business which has little to no chance of providing a long term stable and significant income. And if I may add, it is the systems such as WWDB or N21 that usually end up costing the IBOs the most money because of things like the functions and tools.   

So, I will ask the question. Who's the real loser? The person diligently working and saving for their future or the person chasing a dream that is unlikely to materialize? Factoring in the expenditure of time also makes the systems even more costly than it appears on the surface. I feel sorry for IBOs.  They end up in a vicious cycle or meetings and functions and negative cash flow but they are fed lies that they are somehow successful in spite of obvious facts.  That's what the systems and the upline does to otherwise hard working and reasonable people.  It's sad.

Losers?

 One of the things I heard as an Amway IBO and still hear today, is that people who do not view Amway as favorable, or decided to quit and walk away from the Amway opportunity are "broke" or "losers" or "broke losers". As an IBO I remember one of the upline saying that IBOs are winners, and therefore, if you are not an IBO, you must be a loser. I still see that today. I'm not sure why that kind of teaching still exists, especially when most people who work for minimum wage earn more than most IBOs.

I suppose it's a form of subtle pressure used by upline to prevent people from quitting, as nobody wants to be labeled a loser. It creates an "us" versus "them" attitude. One of Amway's co-founders, Rich DeVos, stated quite clearly in a speech that IBOs should not use the term loser just because someone doesn't agree that Amway is the greatest. And I agree.

Many people who are not IBOs are very successful, and many people are simply not suited for or want to run a "side" business. Some people are not in need of an extra income and some people do not want to sacrifice family time. IBOs should respect other people's wishes if they are turned down when offering the opportunity to others. Also, because of previous unethical behaviors of IBOs, many people simply do not wish to get involved in an opportunity where such behavior exists. Sure, not all IBOs act that way, but enough of them still exists. And what's more, it appears that not much, if anything has been done about it.

But here's the biggest reason, in my opinion, why IBOs should not be calling anyone derogatory names just because the prospect does not wish to join Amway or purchase goods. There's no reason to burn bridges with a potential customer or future IBO. Let's say I entered a store but for whatever reason, decided not to make a purchase that day. As I exit the store, the store owner calls me a loser or broke, or not having guts. What is the chance that I would want to do business with that store or store owner ever again? Furthermore, many or most Amway business owners conduct business person to person and face to face. If I insult people who don't initially do business with me, then I am doing a lousy job of PR, and chances are by business will fail. Yet that is exactly what many IBOs do.

IBOs and upline leaders should read this and think twice before using the term loser or broke loser. You could be burning bridges with potential future customers or IBOs.  Not to mention that many IBOs themselves are actually "broke" which is why they joined Amway in the first place.  I can only imagine that many prospects are probably better off than the Amway IBOs who approach them.  LOL

The Evolution Of Amway Teaching?

 One of the things that is very clear. Many Amway recruits are shown fancy cars and toys, along with luxurious vacations and trappings and other extravagant luxuries, allegedly only available if you're an Amway diamond.  This is a way to get prospects excited and interested in signing up for the Amway opportunity. Many sign up, and soon enough, the excitement fades and they quit. Either that or the IBO sees monthly losses and no prospects of improvement and quits. Many do little or nothing. But what many people do not understand or realize is that there is a reason for this. Many do little or nothing, I suspect because the business is much harder to build than advertised.  And those who put forth effort ultimately fail because the system as taught, is designed that way.  For there to be a few high pins and the rest of the rank and file struggling and losing money.

Because Amway has a stigma in the US (and growing in other locations), finding prospects is a daunting task. Add in the high prices of Amway products and you have major challenges that IBOs simply cannot overcome. Most simply quit and fade away into society. Some, like me were lied to and abused, with upline leaders (WWDB)who were never held accountable for their actions. Thus, I blog so others may share my experiences, and anyone can decide if they wish to climb insurmountable challenges for a less than 1% chance of financial success.

What many leaders do is evolve their teachings. They start to teach their IBOs that the Amway opportunity may have made them nicer people, better fathers or husbands and other nice to hear stories because it covers up the fact that these IBOs are not making money. Sometimes I wonder how someone can be a better person by deceiving others about the business opportunity, or how you can be a better father or husband when Amway meetings become a priority over your family and friends. Or how you can be a nicer person and leave threatening messages on forums with those who disagree about Amway being a great business opportunity?

Rather than justifying your involvement or looking at side benefits, IBOs should be looking at their bottom line. If your Amway "Business" is not generating enough money to pay for your voicemail and other expenses and leaving you with a net profit, then what exactly is your upline teaching you that is worth the ongoing expense? If you are like most, you are told that Amway has little to no overhead and has little risk. Well, that becomes untrue after months pass by and you have spent hundreds if not thousands on support materials that do not deliver you a net profit. Additionally, your upline is making a nice income by selling you those support materials and advising you to buy more.

Are you new or a tenured IBO? Has your teaching from upline evolved away from making money as the bottom line? If so, what do you do next? I would run in the opposite direction.

Not Working Hard Enough?

 I believe there's a gigantic myth that people who ultimately fail in Amway simply didn't work hard enough, or didn't put in enough time, and ended up quitting too early. Based on personal experience and observations of others, I truly believe that to be NOT true. Now I agree that many IBOs do little or nothing, but generally, these folks don't complain and their losses are generally limited to the sign up fee or kit. Most do not seek refunds, file complaints and simply chalk up the loss as a learning experience.  

I myself, put in some months of very dedicated work towards building a business. I had a decent sized group and was headed for platinum. But the fact of the matter is that even though my group was growing, I wasn't making a net profit. I seriously doubt that any of my downline made a net profit, primarily because of the business and tools expenses. I drove the miles, I showed the plan and I attended all the meetings and functions. I did what I was advised by my upline. My net profit at 4000 PV was little to nothing with a net loss when all the business expenses were factored i such as gas money, functions, standing orders, etc.  

My upline also did a lot of work, and he put in the hours, drove the miles and attended everything. He told me his net profit was not any of my business. (If you hear that, it's a huge red flag). I suspect my upline and sponsor also broke even or lost money despite working very hard and doing what they were advised to. I later read the assessment made by the Wisconsin attorney general Bruce Craig, who examined the tax returns of (I believe it was platinums/direct distributors) of IBOs in his state and they averaged a net annual loss of $900. While the study is a bit dated, the business has not really changed except that there are more expenses and tools associated with the business today, than back when the study occured.  

I also question the validity of Amway defenders who claim that people did not work hard enough or did not run their business properly. I seriously doubt that anyone has done a comprehenseive study of people who actually made an effort to build an Amway business, to determine why they may not have the success they desired. However, I can make my own conclusions. Many IBOs are taught to buy from themselves with little sales. They're taught to buy tools, even when they aren't making progress in the business. People who are struggling in Amway are often told that they need to sponsor more people, show more plans. (A struggling business opens new stores to improve business?).

In my opinion, hard work and success in Amway have little relationship. Sure, there is work needed. But working hard doesn't assure you of anything. You need to be able to develop a following. Just working hard has nothing to do with long term sustainable success. There are plenty of examples of hard workers who lost money. What I believe happens, is that IBOs get excited, get started and contact people and show plans. But Amway has the reputation of "pyramid" or "scam" and people quickly get discouraged and stop building the business. Those who try to sell Amway goods find that a month's supply of multi vitamins ($80) double x is a tough sell, or $50 cases of bottled water. They also get discouraged and quit.  

Only those who can somehow recruit and replace those quit end up having a chance to grow their group large enough to sell them tools, which then makes selling Amway products less important. But I don't buy for a minute that people simply do not succeed in Amway primarily because they don't work hard or smart enough. I challenge anyone to prove that a lack of work is the reason for Amway failure. The system is designed for only a few to succeed. Examine the 6-4-2, there is 1 platinum and 78 downline, and that's assuming everyone "did some work".

IBOs fail in vast quantities, but not because they don't do any work.

The Cult?

 Many outsiders see Amway members as being cult like in nature. I also believe that many Amway groups are like cults. The only major difference I can see is that Amway members are free to quit and free to come and go.  But there are many similarities to a cult following which I will outline.

Groups are often told not to associate with non members. If your friends and family do not like Amway or are not positive about Amway, they are to be shunned. Members are told not to put anything but positive into their minds, thus IBOs are told not to watch television or read newspapers. thus, depriving an IBO of basic information about their communities or their cities. It makes them apathetic.  Most of the information or stimulation that an IBO receives is Amway propaganda and that other forms of information are seen as negative and should be avoided. 

IBOs are often advised or told to submit to their upline leaders. Just follow the trail already blazed by upline. Don't reinvent the wheel. Just copy or duplicate your upline. IBOs tend to dress alike, act alike and say the same things, but they are discouraged from speaking to crossline IBOs, which I find ridiculous for business associates.  In a twist of irony, IBOs are encouraged to buy audios and/or attend functions where crossline diamonds are speaking.

Downlines are trained to edify the diamonds. Standing ovations, adoration and complete submission to these "great" leaders. IBOs are often told to "counsel" with these great leaders. A 50 year old successful married businessman would have to "submit" and listen to the single and 30 year old diamond, because the diamond has accomplished what everyone wants - to be a diamond. (Doesn't this sound like the funny farm?)  Even in lesser ranked IBOs, your upline is your upline, oftentimes simply because of the fact that he or she signed up before you.  Amazing isn't it?

Downlines are also constantly on the hunt for new cult members (recruiting). They go through all kinds of trials and tribulations to do so, even attending out of town seminars to learn this skill. The IBOs also channel significant amounts of money to upline leaders in the form of tools purchases, or in some cases, special functions run exclusively by their upline.   

So are Amway groups such as BWW, N21, LTD or WWDB cults? I don't know, but I can say pretty confidently that they certainly exhibit traits that can be compared to a cult.

Duplication Is Not A Copy Machine?

 One of the things my upline used to teach, and apparently is still taught today, it to duplicate or copy your way to success. In fact, we were told to always check upline because things we did needed to be duplicatable for your group. For example, flying first class to a function was not duplicatable, thus not allowed. I believe this is why some IBOs mistakenly think they are franchise owners. Looking back, it would seem that diamonds are exempt from this rule.  If it's not duplicatable as upline says, why do they fly first class, or why do they claim to do so?  The hypocrisy of upline at times, is astonishing.

At functions, everyone seemed to have a catalog shirt or suit. Everyone used the products and spoke phrases or strategies off the tapes, or standing orders. This is where the term "tapespeak" came from. The recruiting approach was also similar for many, and people in the US became aware of the techniques and I believe this is a contributor to the apparent decline in Amway North America.  It's funny for me as a former IBO, because you can see what's coming from a mile away or more.  And the IBO responses are a source of humor  :).

While IBOs can certainly duplicate certain things such as dressing alike and using the same tools such as voicemail to run their business, they cannot duplicate the conditions or the market that a higher pin may have had in order to achieve their success. That is why I believe so many IBOs fall short of their business goals. In fact, if duplication was truly the answer to IBO success, then why aren't there more pins breaking? Why do diamonds and other big pins quit the business if the answer was duplication?   It's because duplication is just a catch phrase used by upline that may sound reasonable, but does not work in the real world of business.  The results of decades sides with my argument.

I think the bottom line is clear. Duplication doesn't work.  You can copy and duplicate your upline all you want.  But you cannot duplicate everything, which means there are too many variables and aspects of your upline diamond's business that simply cannot be duplicated or copied to any realistic measure of success.  Duplication is not a copy machine, so you might think you are copying or duplicating, but you're not.  Also, if your upline diamond is no longer qualified and you are unaware of this, you then are duplicating something that is not nearly as successful as you were led to believe. 

Amway IBO Wife's Testimony?

 This comment was left on my blog some years ago and I'm now posting it because it gives a really interesting insight on the thinking and teaching in Amway and WWDB. Keep in mind that this comment is not exclusive.  I've heard similar stories in the past.  Enjoy;

Let me tell you a story about my "successful" Amway marriage.
Was in WWDB. Upline Diamond: Puryear (seriously)

Husband (now ex-) and I were core all the way. Drank the koolaid, ate the food bars, no TV, only listened to tapes and read books. Attended all the functions. Major functions were our "vacations" and "dates." In public, we were Mr. and Mrs. Amway. In private, he was physically abusive. I finally got a chance to leave.

Upline sponsors, Platinums and Emeralds called me, yelling at me, telling me that it was "unbiblical" to leave my husband. Guess it was okay for him to do what he was doing?

I left and never looked back. It was tough to deprogram after the WWDB brainwashing.

My husband wasn't abusive when we met and were first married. That started happening maybe six months after we were married.

He was already in Amway when we met, but he wasn't very active. After we got married, he started to get more active in "the business."

I didn't know much about Amway when I met him. I met his upline sponsors when we got engaged and I thought they were just good friends. After we were married, I went to a rally and was struck by how the wives seemed to be so supportive. Then I heard the Emerald wife speak, and all she did was edify her husband or go on to "us gals" that we needed to let go of any negativity. As I went to more functions, I heard the wives tell "us gals" to be submissive - that we were wrong for having any needs or requests. It's one of the kids' birthday or your birthday and there's a function? Guess which one takes priority. You can celebrate later when you're "Free," when you're a Diamond.

I thought there would be some sales training. I went to an Artistry clinic - they taught us how to put on makeup and showed us some of the latest colors. But there was nothing about how to find customers, generate sales, or even have a makeup party. At one time, there was a tape by Bettyjean Brooks (wife of Jim Brooks, WWDB) about how to build a retail business. I ordered it, but never received it. She and Jim divorced. Jim stayed in WWDB and the tape suddenly became "unavailable."

Husband really followed the "fake it 'til you make it" teaching. To everyone, he was Mr. Successful. After our child was born, I became a stay at home mother. He led everyone to believe that it was our Amway income that allowed me to stay home. We weren't even at 1500 PV. We never made any money. I kept my mouth shut and played the submissive/supportive wife role. Keeping the books, running call-in and pickup for our downline, and trying to peddle the products to "customers." He never tried to sell anything - that was the wife's job. WWDB taught that.

It all came to a head when the police got involved because of the abuse. He had to move out of our house. He lied to everyone, saying that it was all really nothing and that the courts (and I) were blowing everything out of proportion. After going through counseling and therapy, it was clear to me (and to the therapist) that he was not being honest with any of us. I filed for divorce.

It was then that the upline contacted me. Our sponsor (the wife), platinum and emerald each called me. It started out that they were "concerned" about me and wanted to counsel me. When I told them exactly what happened and why I was leaving, they told me that it was "unbiblical" for me to leave my husband. Yelling at me. Accusing me of negativity. They also said that there was no way he could have done those things, that they just couldn't believe it. I offered to let them see a copy of the police report. Nobody ever took me up on that offer.

Now, I can't say that Amway taught him to be abusive, but I wholeheartedly believe they taught him to be a good liar and how to hide the truth and dodge questions. They did everything short of preach that the "little lady" stay at home, pregnant and in the kitchen. Wives on stage used to brag about how the couple drove a hundred miles and left their kids sleeping in the car while they went inside someone's house to show a plan.

Freedom, indeed. More like servitude.

IBOs = Fraud Victims?

 I've heard over the years, many IBOs who failed in the Amway opportunity who blamed themselves for not putting in enough effort, not trying hard enough or not working the system "just right".  While I don't doubt that some IBOs don't work hard enough, I cannot fathom that so many motivated and eager prospects simply failed because they didn't work hard enough. I believe IBOs are taught to accept failure as their own, even if they had followed upline advice very closely.   In a twist of irony. upline teaches personal responsibility to the downline, even though they do not take personal responsibility for their ineffective teaching.  

Uplines will tell new IBOs to trust them and that these new IBOs will succeed if only they will follow the advice of the allegedly successful diamond because they have already blazed the trail for you. Ironically, after many IBOs fail, upline will never take responsibility for the advice they issued that led to downline failures. They then turn the tables on their downline and say that their advice is like a buffet. You pick and choose the advice you need and disregard the rest. That is such a bunch of crap that I cannot fathom downline IBOs buying what they are shoveling. A new IBO places their trust in the diamonds because they have achieved the pinnacle of success, but a new IBO is supposed to pick and choose which advice to follow? And then failure is the fault of the downline?  How is a new IBO supposed to know what upline is good for their new business or not?  I guess in reality it doesn't matter, given the dismal results we see from Amway businesses. 

Ironically and sadly, these downline, when they ultimately fail, often end up blaming themselves and just disappear unless someone recruits them again. They are often sponsored by friends and family, so you won't see them filing complaints against Amway or the uplines who led them astray. Uplines nearly assured their success if only these new IBOs would buy the training materials and attend all of the functions. But many IBOs work hard and do everything outlined by upline only to fail. It is likely because the system doesn't work. Many financial systems are for sale out there and most of them have very little success. Amway is no different, except that uplines promote their systems as sure fire.

It is, however, my belief that many or possibly most IBOs are the victims of fraud in that they are given possibly false positive information about the Amway opportunity. They get involved and find out that the system doesn't work, and then they end up quitting with a loss and them blaming themselves. Brilliant for the uplines who profit but, in my opinion, it makes IBOs the victims of fraud by upline. Upline profits whether or not their downline makes a cent. Some upline strongly encourage downline to buy more and more tools, even when they know that those downline have no chance of making money in the Amway opportunity. It makes the IBOs victims, and it makes the uplines a bunch of crooks.

Looking at it from another angle, upline claims to have the best interest of their downline at heart, but somehow the answer to a failing Amway business seems to be to buy more tools and function tickets.  It's ridiculous that upline advice for a failing business is to expend more money on things that do not produce income for the business.  But the most insidious thing they do is to push personal responsibility on their downline, when they (upline) themselves take none.

Mentors Or Crooks?

 The really insidious part about some of the LOS leaders, such as the ones I had in WWDB, is that they apparently are cutthroat ruthless businessmen with nice suits and disguised as your mentors and friends. They get you to trust them, and they will tell you that they have your best interest at heart, or that they would never purposely lead you astray. On the surface, you may think this is true, but look at their actions and you can easily discern that some of these uplines are absolutely ruthless businessmen who would take every cent from you if they could. I was in WWDB, and I have good reasons to believe that they are still doing this, based on a WWDB IBO blog. On this blog, I see all the same teachings today, that I heard as an IBO and some of the same claims such as buying homes in cash. It's scary.

As an IBO, the diamonds would tell you to never miss a function, ever. The only good reason for missing a function was for your own funeral. I recall some cross line IBOs rearranging pre-planned anniversary parties, weddings, and other special family events in the name of being core and attending all functions. Some IBOs actually did quit their jobs to attend functions and they very well may have done so because some uplines taught this. IBOs were also encouraged and told to go into debt to attend a function. This was okay because it was an investment into your business.

Our group was also strongly encouraged to buy extra cds every week. To be core, you needed to listen to a cd each day and you cannot listen to the same one each day, right? Couples were told to buy their own separate standing orders. Brad Duncan even had a true north tape (cd) that said sponsors were to eat the standing orders for downlines who quit because it was too much trouble to call upline who calls upline who calls upline to cancel a standing order. Oddly enough, they didn't mind upline calling upline calling upline to add a standing order.

In the end, I was lucky enough to have been progressing up the pin ranks, so my losses were not that devastating. I ended up losing in my early months of the business but mostly broke even when I was at 4000 PV. Sadly though, my cross line did not fare so well. I know of one couple who declared bankruptcy. I don't know how much their WWDB involvement contributed to bankruptcy, but I am certain it was a major factor and I know of two couples who had homes foreclosed, and I believe that their allegiance to WWDB was a factor in those foreclosures. But I guess hey, two WWDB diamonds had homes foreclosed so maybe they were duplicating?

Do not be fooled. The diamonds may have a nice smile and a nice suit, but they are ruthless businessmen who will take your last dime if you allow them to.

Bad Advice?

 Based on my personal experience, and based on having read numerous accounts from other former IBOs, it's pretty clear that the higher uplines, absolve themselves of issues and problems by having others do their dirty work. While some leaders are bold enough to make dumb statements on stage, many uplines will have their "eagles" or platinums do their dirty work, which is to pass bad and often self serving advice to their downline. Advice that will help them (upline) to profit directly from the losses suffered by downline.

For exampe, a diamond may stand on stage and talk about the merits of getting out of debt. Now getting out of debt is a good thing and nobody should get caught up in credit card debt and other piles of debt. But so many times, I sat in meetings where the group was told they needed to be at the next function - no matter what. Do whatever it takes to get there, even if it meant selling personal belongings. Ironically, the solution to getting to the next major function did not involve selling Amway products. So many IBOs made sacrifices of time and money to get to the next function, but their business did not experience any growth in volume or downline. I saw many crossline IBOs attend meeting after meeting and function after function without any downline. They faithfully spent their time and money chasing a dream based on lies by the upline leaders. Our group was told that upline made zero profit on tools. While some groups now admit that profit is made on tools, there is still a lack of transparency about the tools profits and as far as I know, there are no formal written agreements with regards to the tool profits.

I also recall our platinums having platinum and above meetings while we were at major functions, and it seemed that the platinums always had something to teach the group that was contrary to what we had just heard on stage and the platinum would tell us that he had the freshest information from the meeting. It's like the platinum was just a henchman for the diamonds and carried out their dirty deeds. Another example is how the diamonds taught vertical alignment where God is first, then your spouse, your kids, your job and in 5th place was your Amway business. But anytime an event such as a friend's wedding or an anniversary dinner or your kid's soccer game conflicted with an Amway event, the group was told "attend all meetings". All means all, is what our group was told. That is directly contrary to the concept of vertical alignment. In fact, the Amway IBOs became less useful to their communities and churches as they are constantly attending meetings and functions and unable to serve in other capacities. I also wondered whether the Amway business and tools consumption took away their abililty to tithe and give to the local charities. Our upline would tell us to go diamond and then send in $10,000 checks as if that made it okay not to serve others and help the needy.

It is my informed opinion that this still goes on today, despite the claims of Amway apologists that my experience is dated. There is ample evidence suggesting that very little has changed from 20 years ago. In fact, many of the leaders from my IBO days are still teaching unethical things to this day. Many Upline passes bad advice downline, but they do it in sneaky ways such as having their downline leaders pass the information on. This is also how Amway itself can skirt some of their issues, as IBOs are not Amway employees, they are "independent". But most people in North America now know the truth and hopefully this article shines some light on that truth.

The Real Scam?

 A lot of people come and go in Amway, but many of those who come and go don't even notice the scam. They get sold on what they believe is a business opportunity that they can make some money at, or at the very least save some money on products that they would normally buy anyway. If they do it right, they can possibly make some "real" money and with some had work, you can build it right and have the option one day of walking away from Amway and living off ongoing residual income from Amway. It sounds reasonable and therein lies the scam.

For years, I have challenged people to name 2-3 people, aside from the Amway owners, who joined, built the business "right" and was able to walk away and retire with ongoing residual income, enough to be financially free forever. Not a single person has been able to name and confirm that even a single person has done this. I believe it's all a lie and part of the scam. Amway's distributor force turns over about 50% each year. How can you build a residual income empire when half of your downline quits each year? I believe Amway diamonds trade their 9-5 jobs for the night shift. They work at night and into the morning hours because they are working to replace people who quit and to support downline platinums who might struggle or fail to re-qualify for that level. If upline says they are working for the love of their downline, I call BS on that. If walking away and enjoying life was an option, why hasn't anyone chosen it?

Now you could argue that a diamond's "work" isn't that bad, and they aren't reporting to a boss. And that would be true, but I imagine the pressure of churning people in and out to keep qualifying can be stressful in itself. If you live on an island like me, you can eventually have trouble finding new people to work with. In 1997 or so, there were a bunch of diamonds in Hawaii and they all moved to the mainland. Now I"m not sure why but my upline diamond was Harimoto, who loved the ocean and the beaches. Yet he moved to Washington state. I believe they needed new grounds to mine, just like gold miners.

The next part of the scam is how IBOs will tell you about Amway's generous money back guarantee. 100% they'll tell you. What they don't tell you is that the guarantee is only on some of the products and the signup fee. The cds, books, voicemail and functions are not sold or run by Amway. And these expenses can be very significant over a period of time. IBOs and prospects need to know this. You can lose thousands and get back pennies on the dollar asking for a refund on the sign up fee and perhaps a few products. Another piece of the scam.

Also, IBOs and prospects are often shown only the very best-case scenario (such as going diamond) but not told that your chance of being struck by lightning is much higher than your chance of going diamond, even though going diamond is not a random event. A real life and likely scenario is getting in and trying hard for a while, and then quitting with some business losses. At least if you know this and still try anyway, you will have done so with full disclosure.

Lastly, it's insidious in my opinion, for upline to tell you to trust them and to do as they say, and then turn around and tell IBOs that failure is their responsibility. That they didn't work hard enough or do thing just right. That sure isn't what they are preaching when recruiting you into the business. They are saying how sharp you are and how you're likely to tear up the business. But it's just another facet of the scam. I've outlined the parts of the opportunity that I believe are scams, but I'm sure it's not limited to my point of view.

Good luck if you read this and join anyway.

The Amway Phenomena?

 http://scamadvocates.com/164-Amway.html

Other November 27 2011

"""I have read all of these posts. Interesting that everyone who supports Amway cannot spell very well. Lots of typos and grammatical errors in here by those who jump up and down reciting Amway's many virtues. It is a scam and a groupthink phenomenon of staggering proportions. From a psychological perspective, Amway does its best to separate people from those who would challenge its legitimacy and operations. This is not unlike how Hitler or any other leader would silence opponents or dissidents by having them "removed" from the equation. Same thing goes here, Amway teaches people to ignore and remove obstacles and people who challenge the system, even if said challenges are completely rational and offered by people with the IBO's best interest in mind. It hits IBO's in soft spots for family, friends, and freedom (the 3 F's), and it entices them to focus on emotional reasoning rather than very cognitive-based, rational dissection of information.

Amway IBO's are taught emotionalism, not rationalism. From a business perspective, it is a farce. IBO's are no entrepreneurs, as they wear the collars of their uplines. Over and over, I have been told to do as my uplines say. What if my upline is a total moron and I have a law degree and an MBA?? I'm supposed to follow these uplines?? According to the system, yes, the uplines' words are paramount. So no, IBO's are not entrepreneurs and do not gain any real experience. IBO is a fancy name for distributor, pure and simple.

I had the opportunity to meet a number of "diamonds" and "emeralds" recently, all of whom had either left the business to get real jobs or were still struggling bringing in about $30,000 per year. Many of them are posting massive losses, and by the way, the IRS does not consider pro-suming OR tickets to a convention (to hear Yager scream at you) to be business expenses. Good luck trying to recover those losses. It is a pyramid scheme simply because mathematically and considering the law of averages, a downline cannot really earn more than his upline. It just doesn't happen - it's a nice idea, but it doesn't happen. I worked through multiple scenarios with a friend, trying to see how I could out-earn my upline, and we found several variables that would keep that from happening.

Finally, on a personal level, this Amway monkey business cost me a great friendship, an IBO who decided that taking a chance on some crazy dream was more important than those who loved him most. I think he will continue prospecting and pushing "the plan" until there isn't anyone left. If you know someone in Amway or who is thinking seriously about it, you need to realize that they will soon be lost. Amway people are very much like crack users (very similar psychopathology, actually), and they will choose Amway over you, their family, their friends, and anything that gets in the way."""

Sustainability?

 One thing that is very clear to me after having researched and blogged about the subject of Amway and the Amway Motivational Organizations (AMOs) is that most (most meaning the vast majority) Amway businesses are not sustainable. It is why I believe there is such a high dropout rate and why there are so many people who have formed a bad opinion about Amway. Now a real business relies on income from customers. The customers purchase goods and services from a business, and if they like it and/or find value in the goods and services, they become repeat customers and as long as there continues to be value in the goods and services, sales are made.  A lack of value also means a lack of repeat customers.

In the Amway, business, there appears to be a "perceived" value to the goods and services. In many groups (such as BWW or WWDB), the perceived value is that the purchase and use of Amway products will lead to untold wealth and the possibility of early retirement. Sadly, for most IBOs, the reality sets and the IBOs end up quitting, and more often than not, the products that had great value and price to an IBO, suddenly becomes expensive and irrelevant to non-IBOs. If former IBOs had continued to buy Amway products, the company growth would be significant even with the high attrition rate. It appears that the dreams and aspirations of a new IBO are directly related to their dedication to Amway products.

But why aren't most Amway businesses sustainable? Isn't it simple? Do your 100 PV and get others to do the same? In my opinion, this is what has destroyed the Amway reputation. All too many IBOs in the past have done all kinds of crazy and in some cases, deceitful or unethical things in an attempt to recruit other IBOs. What probably in mentioned, but not a meaningful way is the absolute need for IBOs to get customers, and plenty of them. Even groups that may teach some need to get customers do not advise IBOs focus primarily on customers. They still advise many/most IBOs to sponsor downline. The lack of customers means that the diamond wealth seen on stage at functions comes primarily from IBO purchases of Amway goods and business support materials (standing order, voicemail and functions)

But you may wonder why a diamond appears so successful? It's because a diamond business has many customers. All downline who purchases voicemail, standing orders, books and functions are all customers of the diamonds. The are all generally repeat customers as well. A diamond or higher may have hundreds to even thousands of downline who purchase support materials (on the diamond's advice). That is why in many cases, a diamond will seem successful, because they have all their downline as customers or potential customers. However, with the apparent illusion of a diamond lifestyle, even that diamond income may not be enough to sustain the "diamond lifestyle". It appears that the downturn of growth in north America may have affected the north American diamonds (bankruptcy, foreclosures, etc).

And if a diamond may not have enough customers to sustain their business and lifestyle, what chance do you have with little or no downline, and little sales to people who are not IBOs? I suspect if you're reading this, you already know the answer.

Integrity?

 I used to follow the blog of a WWDB IBO named "Shaun". He used to run a blog called "Expeditions Of Truth" http://expeditionoftruths.com/..  The blog is not running as Shaun has now quit Amway (imagine that?  He swore he would be a double eagle ruby making will over 100k.  What could possibly go wrong?)  In typical fashion, Shaun did not allow opposing views on his blog.

He seemed to think that not only is he in business with people full of integrity, but he also thought that he was going to retire in November 2011. Is this now May 2024?  While I think doing business with people of integrity is a good thing, I also know of many successful people in business who are ruthless. So are Amway and in particular, WWDB people full of integrity or are they just as ruthless as other businesspeople? Does it matter? In my opinion, it doesn't matter except for the fact that WWDB people seem to think that they have integrity filled leaders.

Well, let's look at some of these leaders. Back in the 1990's, the current batch of WWDB leaders swore that nobody made a profit on tools. Nobody knew the truth at the time. We now know that this was a lie. Is this integrity? We know that Greg Duncan, a triple diamond, was in chapter 7 bankruptcy proceedings some years ago.  Not paying for your obligations is integrity? We know that Greg Duncan and David Shores had homes foreclosed (Public information). Is that a move filled with integrity? With the tons of money Duncan and Shores make, couldn't they have made an effort to pay off their debts?    Is that integrity?

If you look at a blog linked to this one "Rocket's Rants", there's a YouTube video of "crown" Brad Duncan telling rank and file IBOs that they can make "hundreds of thousands of dollars" a month. First of all, I wonder if Brad Duncan has achieved this himself, let alone any others? Even if someone had achieved it, it would be illegal or unethical to portray that kind of success as achievable to an Amway prospect.  

Brad Wolgamott used to talk about how WWDB had a low divorce rate. Is it full on integrity for WWDB leaders to separate or divorce when they talk about integrity and how Amway and WWDB saves marriages? What about Dean Kosage? Another divorcee? Are they full of integrity? What say you Shaun Guthrie of WWDB? What about Howie Danzik whose website doesn't mention that he was once married to Susan? Is it integrity to say you built the business as a single when Howie previously built the business with his former wife Susan?

Amway's owner Rich DeVos acknowledged that the "tools" were likely a pyramid scam and Amway did nothing after sales dropped following some attempts to clean it up. Is that an integrity move? I don't know but it sure seems as if WWDB and Amway have issues where integrity is concerned.

Recruiting?

 What does the HR department is a company do? Recruit? That's what I was told when a diamond speaker was trying to downplay the fact that so many Amway IBOs are focused on recruiting. If you've ever been accosted by a zealous and probably new Amway IBO, you'll probably know what I'm talking about. Newly sponsored IBOs often have the motivation and zeal to try to recruit anyone and everyone they know. They are trying to achieve what upline has told them is needed to accomplish their "dreams". Afterall, nobody is going diamond or even platinum without an army of downline right?

But upon closer inspection, you can see the real problem. I mean if I as an IBO could simply sell tons of products for a profit, then my focus doesn't have to be on recruiting, but simply on sales. But over the years, I've unsuccessfully challenged IBOs and Amway defenders to name 1 or 2 people who has sizable Amway businesses sustained primarily by sales and not by recruiting an army. Of course, nobody has even been able to give me an answer. And that's because Amway products are generic in nature but premium in prices. It makes it a tough sell when your friends and family can get far more product and value at a retailer's outlet at a fraction of the cost of Amway products. Try doing an open minded price comparison and you'll easily see what I mean.

For these reasons, upline developed the concept of buy from yourself and get others to do the same. People generally do not like selling things anyway, so it makes sense that a concept of buying from your own store makes the Amway business seem more palatable to the masses. Of course, the problem with this method is that you end up focusing on recruiting and you've turned Amway into a pyramid scheme. Look at the somewhat recent FTC vs. Herbalife. They found that a majority of sales were not made to actual customers but appeared to be made to the distributors themselves. Herbalife is required to tracked these sales now and it's yet to be seen how this FTC injunction will impact Herbalife long term.

But if you're a prospect or an IBO and focused on recruiting, then you are likely doing so because you too, are unable to sell Amway products just like all the critics claim. Oh, I've heard stories of people having hordes of customers, but nobody has ever shown evidence of such.  Nobody can answer why the "diamonds" seemingly have large groups of downline "buying for themselves". Like the mysterious "Amway retirees" that no one can identify, nobody has been able to identify a few successful and sustainable Amway businesses that relies on product sales primarily. It's because the majority of groups are basically focused on recruiting and running product pyramid schemes.

Level Playing Field?

 The Amway business is a level playing field. At least that's what my upline told us when I was an IBO. That everyone starts at zero. While that is somewhat true, there were other factors that existed, that most IBOs did not know about. That factor is the possibility of PV manipulation. I believe that groups that are not on direct fulfillment (Groups still calling in and picking up) are able to transfer PV around. Thus, certain groups or favored downline could be manufactured into higher pins. I believe most groups are currently on direct fulfillment, but I did confirm about less than a year ago that some groups still are on call in and pick up.

But let's examine the concept that everyone starts at zero. While this aspect may be true, certain people are simply better at selling, or better and more adept at socializing and talking to others. So, while your PV count may be zero, the skills needed to start and run a business is not a level playing field for most. I believe uplines state this to give prospects the idea that everyone has an equal chance at succeeding in Amway. I just cannot believe this to be true. Even current diamonds, while having achieved a certain level, probably could not "start at zero" again and build a diamond business.

Thus, when you really think about it, the "old timers" of the diamonds should actually be given less credibility than the newer ones. Do you really believe that a diamond or higher pin who built his business in the 1970's can really teach people in 2016 how to build the business in a way to address people in 2016, and the fact that the business is mostly internet based as opposed to the old days, not to mention the advance of social media, text messaging and other modern forms of communication.

It is easy to stand on stage, tell people how great you are, show off material wealth and then tell prospects that everyone starts at zero and that anyone can build the business. I do not believe that it is true. I also strongly suspect that very few (if any) of the current diamonds would be able to "start at zero" and build a new diamond ship here in the US, where the reputation and shrinking sales would be handicaps too great to overcome for the vast majority of propsective IBOs. I recall back in 2005 or 2006, WWDB had a commitment for personal growth amongst the diamonds and above. I do not believe much fruit was grown out of that effort. The diamonds had committed to duplicating their groups to prove it could be done. Not a single one of them, as far as I know, advanced to a significantly higher level (i.e. diamond to double diamond).

The Impossible Dream?

 Every year, tens of millions of kids across the US have dreams of playing sports. Some dream of playing professionally, some dream of playing at the collegiate level, some may have dreams of dazzling their high school peers. And this can apply to just about any sport, be it baseball, football, hockey, basketball, golf or whatever endeavor you can think of. As you progress to each of the next higher levels, the number of participants decrease. There are only so many professional teams, and so many college teams, while there are scores of high school teams all across the country. As each level gets higher, it is likely that better physical attributes and greater skills are needed in order to move on.  opportunity and how the higher levels are like the professionals and the rank and file are like the high schoolers. While I agree that there's only limited space at the higher levels, i think it's extremely important to note why the masses do not achieve the highest levels. In sports, you would need to have the motivation, the physical gifts, as well as the skills to achieve and excel at the highest level. Thus, people who are small in stature likely won't be candidates for the NFL even with a lot of motivation. Someone under 6' tall might have great difficulty in getting a job in the NBA. Of course there are always exceptions, but those exceptions are made up by perhaps, incredible "other" skills or leadership. Some athletes have a knack for being in the right place at the right time, or an intangible.  

So, what does this have to do with Amway? The connection is the massive amounts of Amway IBOs who never achieve even the breakeven point. They may come into the program with dreams of financial freedom, or making enough to have a stay home wife, etc. Why do so few achieve even the lowest levels? In my opinion, the Amway business has too many barriers that prevent IBOs from succeeding. These barriers make it nearly impossible for anyone to reach the higher levels. These barriers include but are not limited to high prices that make many products a tough sell. Then you have the optional but vital training and functions that normally drain whatever profit the lower level IBOs make. Even someone at 2500 or 4000 PV will net a loss if they need to travel by air to functions. You can also factor in some of the zany things previous IBOs have done such as tricking people into attending meetings, or not being accountable to downline, or by messing with your downline's money (bouncing checks).  

In the end, the masses of IBOs just do not possess the ability to overcome these barriers that can stop the charge of a bull elephant. It is why so many IBOs try hard and achieve nothing. While much effort may be expended, it looks as if these folks did nothing and quit. The reality is that most people who sign up were highly motivated but more likely found an impossible barrier and decided to do something else. I know of many former IBOs who went onto succeed in life after Amway. Many do not complain or voice complaints because they were involved in Amway with family and friends.  

So, in Amway and in pro sports, there are masses who want to achieve their dreams. In both cases, a tiny percentage might achieve the top levels. The difference is that athletes know that their chances are small. IBOs are often misled into thinking that everyone can achieve diamond and residual income, which is a myth. Also in pro sports, there is no scam where people have a proven training system that will ensure success if you work hard. In pro sports, it is proven that the elite make millions. Whereas Amway diamonds seem to shroud their success in secrecy, showing pictures of mansions to show off success. Also, athletes may not make the pros, but may have benefited by getting a free college education. There aren't any stories of success in Amway for those who don't "make it", as far as I know. Are you chasing an impossible dream?