Comments about Amway's most prolific and shameless defender:
http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/will-amway-make-you-annoying/
Guest on April 23rd, 2012 8:32 am
anonymous:
I would strongly urge you to reconsider any involvement with ibofightback.
Read his comments here and elsewhere. He will twist and contort any argument to somehow justify Amway or discredit opposing opinions or anti-Amway views. I am just a reader and not part of his years-long feuds with other posters, but I think the guy’s bizarre (no offense, ibo). It’s entertaining to watch how he skillfully (sometimes) bends over backwards to defend Amway in any and all instances. I think he is a master manipulator with some unknown agenda.
Again, no offense to ibofightback, but I think he is a weirdo. He spends (and has spent) tremendous amounts of time and energy battling to defend the reputation of a for-profit company, allegedly with no payment from the company and no serious financial stake as an IBO. Why does he do that? Does McDonald’s have a near-full-time unpaid advocate building blogs and battling for their honor across the Internet for no pay?
As long as he’s going to campaign for no pay, why doesn’t he put this energy into campaigning against child hunger, say, or for human rights? Why is a sleazy for-profit company his charity? IMHO, I suspect either he IS somehow receiving compensation, directly or indirectly, for all his efforts OR he’s just a weirdo who has chosen to devote all his free time, passion and energy to defending the reputation of a for-profit, cultlike ponzi scheme.
If true, the former option may be deceptive and possibly illegal, but at least sane and understandable. The latter option, if true, smacks of mental illness or at least dysfunction.
ibofightback is NOT your only option. There are many trained professionals who deal with all kinds of addictive behavior, You don’t need someone trained in Amway. You need someone trained in addictive behavior.
Going to ibofightback for help separating from Amway is like asking a bartender for help with an alcoholic because of his experience with alcohol.
Asking ibofightback for advice on separating from Amway is like asking a drug dealer for help getting a crack addict.
Asking ibofightback for advice on separating from Amway is like asking a pro-life activist for abortion information.
Consulting ibofightback about getting away from Amway is like a couple asking a priest for advice on spicing things up in the bedroom.
[Nothing personal, ibofightback. I think you are masterful at semantic gymnastics and debate. And some of my best friends are weirdos. Just stay away from people who are already victims of Amway before you do further damage.]
Monday, April 23, 2012
Making A Living Off Amway?
I've been blogging for many nears now and one of the conclusions I have made is that there really is no defense for debating the merits of an Amway business when the IBO is participating in a system such as WWDB or Network 21. I have no issues with IBOs who sign up and sell actual products to non IBO customers, but these sales oriented IBOs are very rare. Most IBOs who are entrenched in a system are often focused on sponsoring downline because that is the only way an IBO can achieve certain levels such as emerald or diamond. The emerald or diamond level is the goal of many because it is allegedly the level where an IBI can "walk away" and enjoy barrels of cash rolling in for the rest of their lives. I find it ironic that even crown ambassadors keep busy schedules and have not walked away into a quite life of retirement and uncountable amounts of money.
In general, it would take about 100 IBOs or so to make up a platinum level business. That's 1% at best and even less when you factor in IBOs who do nothing or IBOs who start and quit. In my estimation, a very dedicated hard core IBO would only begin to break even or make a little bit of income at the 4000 PV or platinum level. Of course, your business structure would be a factor in determining how much you can earn. Sponsoring width gives you more profit and sponsoring depth allegedly gives you some stability. Thus you could reasonably argue that about a fraction of 1% of IBOs break even or make a little bit of income. What real businessman would even consider opening a business where your chance of making a profit is less than 1%? Yes, you can argue that Amway is a business and not a game of chance, but a prudent decision also factors in your chances of success.
Other factors that would make Amway unattractive is that the products are priced higher (in general) than comparable or the same products that are available at people's local retailers. Yes, Amway folks will argue quality and concentration factors but those arguments are simply justification for the higher prices. The vast majority of people are satisfied getting cheaper prices at Walmart. Also, IBOs are restricted from advertising their goods, thus are relegated to person to person advertising, which is probably the least effective methos of getting the word out. Higher prices and unfamiliar products results in what many groups have - IBOs who "buy from themselves" in order to earn their bonuses. Also, any bonus that is earned by most IBOs is just a partial refund on having overpaid for a product. Not to mention unless you are at a higher level in the business, your upline(s) get most of the bonus, whether they helped you or not.
Yes, it is possible for some people to make some money in Amway. Yes, some people do make some good money from Amway. It is not possible for all IBOs to make money unless they are selling products to non IBOs and we know that most IBOs don't sell anything or sell just a few items to others. We also know that the tools systems generally eat away any small bonuses IBOs earn and leave them with a net loss. For the truly dedicated IBOs, the losses can mount into thousands of dollars and more.
Can someone make a living with Amway? The answer is that it's possible but not likely. But as to whether the Amway business and associated tools is a good idea? For thet there is no defense.
In general, it would take about 100 IBOs or so to make up a platinum level business. That's 1% at best and even less when you factor in IBOs who do nothing or IBOs who start and quit. In my estimation, a very dedicated hard core IBO would only begin to break even or make a little bit of income at the 4000 PV or platinum level. Of course, your business structure would be a factor in determining how much you can earn. Sponsoring width gives you more profit and sponsoring depth allegedly gives you some stability. Thus you could reasonably argue that about a fraction of 1% of IBOs break even or make a little bit of income. What real businessman would even consider opening a business where your chance of making a profit is less than 1%? Yes, you can argue that Amway is a business and not a game of chance, but a prudent decision also factors in your chances of success.
Other factors that would make Amway unattractive is that the products are priced higher (in general) than comparable or the same products that are available at people's local retailers. Yes, Amway folks will argue quality and concentration factors but those arguments are simply justification for the higher prices. The vast majority of people are satisfied getting cheaper prices at Walmart. Also, IBOs are restricted from advertising their goods, thus are relegated to person to person advertising, which is probably the least effective methos of getting the word out. Higher prices and unfamiliar products results in what many groups have - IBOs who "buy from themselves" in order to earn their bonuses. Also, any bonus that is earned by most IBOs is just a partial refund on having overpaid for a product. Not to mention unless you are at a higher level in the business, your upline(s) get most of the bonus, whether they helped you or not.
Yes, it is possible for some people to make some money in Amway. Yes, some people do make some good money from Amway. It is not possible for all IBOs to make money unless they are selling products to non IBOs and we know that most IBOs don't sell anything or sell just a few items to others. We also know that the tools systems generally eat away any small bonuses IBOs earn and leave them with a net loss. For the truly dedicated IBOs, the losses can mount into thousands of dollars and more.
Can someone make a living with Amway? The answer is that it's possible but not likely. But as to whether the Amway business and associated tools is a good idea? For thet there is no defense.
Thursday, April 19, 2012
Joecool's View On Amway
I thought I would post my opinion about Amway in this article. I see that IBOfightback is writing some summaries about Amway critics and I did not want him miserepresenting my position and taking editorial liberties in his usual less than honest manner. What exactly is Joecool's take on Amway?
When I was an IBO, there were some products that I liked. That being said, I also thought most of their products were overpriced and I did not like any of the products so much that I continued to purchase them after my IBO days were over. I also don't know of any former IBOs who are still loyal to Amway products one they quit. Later, I began to see how ridiculous some product claims were. Perfect water is one of them and I also think double x is a poor buy. I believe IBOs only purchase double x because of the high PV count and not for much else. Contrary to IBOfightback's assertion that many people sign up just to get a discount on Amway products, I believe these are simply IBOs who just can't sponsor someone. My position is easily defensible as Amway products are not name brand, despite their more than 50 years of existence. I believe that IBOs primarily purchasing their own goods without selling to non IBOs puts Amway on the borderline of legality because without sales to non IBOs, the only other way to profit is to recruit downline. While there is no immediate reward for sponsoring, IBOs recruit in the hopes that their downline will also buy from themselves and recruit even more downline. Sadly, most IBOs do not sponsor anyone. Amway in the US is a tough sell because of the name reputation. Past and present IBOs trickery (Lies and tricking people into attending meetings)has eroded the Amway name.
I believe the tool business might be an illegal pyramid. Tools are sold almost exclusively to IBOs and the only way to make money is to reach a certain level and then to sell tools to your downline. In 1983, Amway owner Rich DeVos acknowledged that he thought the tools business was a pyramid. Since then, there are no truly visible and hardline actions taken by the corporation to curb tool abuse. Accreditation was done, but the AMOs have still been able to bend the rules. Even IBOFightback wrote an article about the joke that accreditation was. I believe a political speaker was brought to speak at a function where an AMO was awarded accreditation. A joke indeed. And the tools are not effective. Despite the AMO claim that tools are vital, there is no unbiased evidence to suggest anything other than the fact that tools are more often than not the reason why business building IBOs lose money. In several court cases and from my own personal experience, the tools are the reason why even platinums can suffer a net loss. AMOs vary but some of them teach a fierce loyalty to the system. There are stories of people losing tens of thousands of dollars chasing a dream thinking tools will get them there. Think about it, at big conventions, the upline might make a blanket statement about tools being the key to success, but we know that this cannot apply to everyone there. Sponsoring IBOs should be coaching their downline free of charge. It is well documented that some diamonds and other pins may well earn most of their income from tools and not from Amway.
I believe that residual income is a myth. While a big pin might be able to walk away and collect some income for a while, I do not believe diamonds and even double or triple diamonds can do this. Their business would fall apart very quickly. It is why nobody can seem to name any retired Amway diamonds who have barrels of cash rolling in while they sit on a beach. If diamonds were making so much money, why are they still working the functions? It i my guess that these diamonds and others are working functions because they need the income. You stop appearing at functions, your honorariums disappear. We also know that some diamonds may portray a jetset lifestyle but may be living a lie. Some diamonds have had homes foreclosed, a prominent tripe diamond was involved in chapter 7 bankruptcy. While not all diamonds may be like this, I would guess more than not, the diamonds might struggle because they have an image and lifestyle to portray in order to attract new recruits into the business.
The Amway business for most, will not render a profit. The exact number of failures might not be known, but we know that a platinum IBO is already in the fraction of 1% of IBOs. A platinum fully sold out on the system might be running small profits or possible a loss. As you progress to diamond, your income may jump up, but so will your expenses. It is my guess that non Q12 diamonds live very middle class lives away from the functions. Some of the bigger pins or those with other outside businesses might be able to afford more luxuries, but I believe that the diamond lifestyle for the most part, is an illusion.
That's a summary of Joecool's take in Amway and the tool scam.
When I was an IBO, there were some products that I liked. That being said, I also thought most of their products were overpriced and I did not like any of the products so much that I continued to purchase them after my IBO days were over. I also don't know of any former IBOs who are still loyal to Amway products one they quit. Later, I began to see how ridiculous some product claims were. Perfect water is one of them and I also think double x is a poor buy. I believe IBOs only purchase double x because of the high PV count and not for much else. Contrary to IBOfightback's assertion that many people sign up just to get a discount on Amway products, I believe these are simply IBOs who just can't sponsor someone. My position is easily defensible as Amway products are not name brand, despite their more than 50 years of existence. I believe that IBOs primarily purchasing their own goods without selling to non IBOs puts Amway on the borderline of legality because without sales to non IBOs, the only other way to profit is to recruit downline. While there is no immediate reward for sponsoring, IBOs recruit in the hopes that their downline will also buy from themselves and recruit even more downline. Sadly, most IBOs do not sponsor anyone. Amway in the US is a tough sell because of the name reputation. Past and present IBOs trickery (Lies and tricking people into attending meetings)has eroded the Amway name.
I believe the tool business might be an illegal pyramid. Tools are sold almost exclusively to IBOs and the only way to make money is to reach a certain level and then to sell tools to your downline. In 1983, Amway owner Rich DeVos acknowledged that he thought the tools business was a pyramid. Since then, there are no truly visible and hardline actions taken by the corporation to curb tool abuse. Accreditation was done, but the AMOs have still been able to bend the rules. Even IBOFightback wrote an article about the joke that accreditation was. I believe a political speaker was brought to speak at a function where an AMO was awarded accreditation. A joke indeed. And the tools are not effective. Despite the AMO claim that tools are vital, there is no unbiased evidence to suggest anything other than the fact that tools are more often than not the reason why business building IBOs lose money. In several court cases and from my own personal experience, the tools are the reason why even platinums can suffer a net loss. AMOs vary but some of them teach a fierce loyalty to the system. There are stories of people losing tens of thousands of dollars chasing a dream thinking tools will get them there. Think about it, at big conventions, the upline might make a blanket statement about tools being the key to success, but we know that this cannot apply to everyone there. Sponsoring IBOs should be coaching their downline free of charge. It is well documented that some diamonds and other pins may well earn most of their income from tools and not from Amway.
I believe that residual income is a myth. While a big pin might be able to walk away and collect some income for a while, I do not believe diamonds and even double or triple diamonds can do this. Their business would fall apart very quickly. It is why nobody can seem to name any retired Amway diamonds who have barrels of cash rolling in while they sit on a beach. If diamonds were making so much money, why are they still working the functions? It i my guess that these diamonds and others are working functions because they need the income. You stop appearing at functions, your honorariums disappear. We also know that some diamonds may portray a jetset lifestyle but may be living a lie. Some diamonds have had homes foreclosed, a prominent tripe diamond was involved in chapter 7 bankruptcy. While not all diamonds may be like this, I would guess more than not, the diamonds might struggle because they have an image and lifestyle to portray in order to attract new recruits into the business.
The Amway business for most, will not render a profit. The exact number of failures might not be known, but we know that a platinum IBO is already in the fraction of 1% of IBOs. A platinum fully sold out on the system might be running small profits or possible a loss. As you progress to diamond, your income may jump up, but so will your expenses. It is my guess that non Q12 diamonds live very middle class lives away from the functions. Some of the bigger pins or those with other outside businesses might be able to afford more luxuries, but I believe that the diamond lifestyle for the most part, is an illusion.
That's a summary of Joecool's take in Amway and the tool scam.
Wednesday, April 18, 2012
Who's Responsible For Downline Failure?
One of the disturbing things I have noticed about Amway IBOs and IBO leaders is how they wlll tell downline to trust them. To trust them as they have already blazed a trail. No need to re-invent the wheel. Just ride the coattails of your upline to success. The system is proven. Many IBOs take this to heart and put forth tremendous effort. Then when they fail, upline will shun them and tell them that the failure is their own. That they are personally responsible for failure.
Now I am not talking about IBOs who sign up and do nothing, or never place an order. I do believe that the fact that many IBOs sign up and do nothing brings concerns about how these IBOs were recruited, but I do not recall ever seeing an IBO do nothing and then complain that Amway was a scam or anything like that.
I have found, however, that many people who are critical of Amway and the systems, put forth much effort, did everything they were told, and did not find the success that upline promoted, or in some cases, guaranteed. My former sponsor was still active, last I heard and has been in Amway for over 15 years. I do not believe he has ever gone beyond platinum, and I know that he was never a Q12 platinum. Some Amway apologists might see being a platinum as a bonus, but when you are hard core sold out to the systems, platinum is a break even or make a small profit business. Factor in that time spent by husband and wife and these folks are breaking even or making a fraction of minumum wage. Is this the dream that will allow you to buy mansions with a cash payment?
What is also disturbing is how people will tout the system as responsible for any success, but hide the vast majority that the system doesn't help. Sure, some will succeed in Amway, but for every success, there are hundreds if not thousands who fail. And if you consider diamond as the benchmark of success, the failures could be in the millions. As I said, some succeed, but very very few in relation to the number who try. Going diamond is probably less common in the US than winning the lottery.
Succeed and the systems and upline take credit, but fail or quit and it is your own responsibility. Are these the kinds of leaders or mentors you want advice from? I will pass.
Now I am not talking about IBOs who sign up and do nothing, or never place an order. I do believe that the fact that many IBOs sign up and do nothing brings concerns about how these IBOs were recruited, but I do not recall ever seeing an IBO do nothing and then complain that Amway was a scam or anything like that.
I have found, however, that many people who are critical of Amway and the systems, put forth much effort, did everything they were told, and did not find the success that upline promoted, or in some cases, guaranteed. My former sponsor was still active, last I heard and has been in Amway for over 15 years. I do not believe he has ever gone beyond platinum, and I know that he was never a Q12 platinum. Some Amway apologists might see being a platinum as a bonus, but when you are hard core sold out to the systems, platinum is a break even or make a small profit business. Factor in that time spent by husband and wife and these folks are breaking even or making a fraction of minumum wage. Is this the dream that will allow you to buy mansions with a cash payment?
What is also disturbing is how people will tout the system as responsible for any success, but hide the vast majority that the system doesn't help. Sure, some will succeed in Amway, but for every success, there are hundreds if not thousands who fail. And if you consider diamond as the benchmark of success, the failures could be in the millions. As I said, some succeed, but very very few in relation to the number who try. Going diamond is probably less common in the US than winning the lottery.
Succeed and the systems and upline take credit, but fail or quit and it is your own responsibility. Are these the kinds of leaders or mentors you want advice from? I will pass.
Monday, April 16, 2012
How To Invite An Amway Prospect WWDB Style?
I came across this invite sheet that a WWDB IBO showed me. The tapespeak is interesting.
Invite for a New Person
For detailed information, please log into your For IBO use only my.biz website with your training login, or contact your upline.
When someone is ready to get started, it is important to help them get started quickly. Teach them to use a simple invite:
Option One: 1. “I’ve run into some people who are on the front end of an Internet concept.” 1. “They’ve been working on it for 6-½ years and they’ve got it perfected.” 2. “They’re growing like crazy and are looking for help.” 3. “I need to get you in front of a computer for 10 minutes.” 4. “I need to sit down with you for 10 minutes.”
Option Two: “Are you near a computer? I need to show you a website.” If they are not near a computer, schedule a time as soon as possible to call them. If they are, continue. As they are getting their browser up, interject some of the following points into your conversation: “I met some people who are on the front end of an Internet concept.” “They have been perfecting it for the last 6-½ years.” “It’s ready for prime time.” “They are growing like crazy and are looking for help.” “It’s going to blow your mind!” “It’s a concept like Amazon only we get ownership.”
There is only one question the new person will ask at this point: “What is this about or what are they doing?”
Your answer should be, “Have you heard of Amazon? They’ve got a concept similar to Amazon.”
If they encounter a question: “What is this about?” Answer: “Have you heard of Amazon? They’ve got a concept similar to Amazon.” Encourage them to share the Web Tour:
Get the new person access to the Web Tour (online, offline, or a paper copy). At the end of the Web Tour: “That’s as far as I can take you.” or “That’s all I’m authorized to show you.” “I need to get you in front of these people (either live or on the phone).”
WWDB
Invite for a New Person
For detailed information, please log into your For IBO use only my.biz website with your training login, or contact your upline.
When someone is ready to get started, it is important to help them get started quickly. Teach them to use a simple invite:
Option One: 1. “I’ve run into some people who are on the front end of an Internet concept.” 1. “They’ve been working on it for 6-½ years and they’ve got it perfected.” 2. “They’re growing like crazy and are looking for help.” 3. “I need to get you in front of a computer for 10 minutes.” 4. “I need to sit down with you for 10 minutes.”
Option Two: “Are you near a computer? I need to show you a website.” If they are not near a computer, schedule a time as soon as possible to call them. If they are, continue. As they are getting their browser up, interject some of the following points into your conversation: “I met some people who are on the front end of an Internet concept.” “They have been perfecting it for the last 6-½ years.” “It’s ready for prime time.” “They are growing like crazy and are looking for help.” “It’s going to blow your mind!” “It’s a concept like Amazon only we get ownership.”
There is only one question the new person will ask at this point: “What is this about or what are they doing?”
Your answer should be, “Have you heard of Amazon? They’ve got a concept similar to Amazon.”
If they encounter a question: “What is this about?” Answer: “Have you heard of Amazon? They’ve got a concept similar to Amazon.” Encourage them to share the Web Tour:
Get the new person access to the Web Tour (online, offline, or a paper copy). At the end of the Web Tour: “That’s as far as I can take you.” or “That’s all I’m authorized to show you.” “I need to get you in front of these people (either live or on the phone).”
WWDB
The Amway Compensation Plan?
One of the major reasons why I think Amway is not such a good opportunity is because of the unfair multi tiered compensation plan. I have heard that Amway pays out about 32-33% to their IBOs, but I find it unfair in that you get rewarded for sponsoring people who move volume more than you do for actually selling products. I believe this is why so many IBOs are desperately trying to sponsor people and in some cases, deception and trickery is used in recruiting, which contributes to Amway's bad reputation.
This multi tiered compensation plan also rewards a few people at the expense of the masses. If an IBO works really hard and sold 100 PV worth of goods, that IBO would get $9 or $10 in a bonus from Amway and layers of upline would split up about $90. I fail to see how that is fair, especially when IBOs seemingly say "do the work and get paid". In this case, you do the work and your uplines get paid.
I think Amway would be more efficient by giving all IBO's 20-25% back as a bonus, with the remaining 8-13% in bonus (33 - 20 or 25) going to certain levels os achievers. I believe that this would truly allow someone to change their buying habits and gain some value. It would also be good for retention of IBOs because a 100 PV would get you a monthly bonus of about $60. If you sold 100 PV to customers, you would get the retail profit plus the bonus. I believe there would be less of an emphasis on sponsoring and more of an emphasis on selling. It would put less pressure on IBO's to recruit and sponsor, and I believe that Amway's reputation could be repaired in this manner. While you would have less emphasis on "going diamond", those who did achieve it could still get handsome bonuses.
I believe implementation of this type of compensation would also eliminate the endless need for cds and seminars. Sure, product expos and some teaching on salesmanship might help, but I believe that compensating the "majority" of IBOs would keep them interested in doing business and would lessen the need for tools. I believe this is a win-win for the majority of those in the business.
I'm sure some Amway apologists will find fault in my line of reasoning, but I believe this is a long term sustainable solution for Amway. Comments are welcome.
This multi tiered compensation plan also rewards a few people at the expense of the masses. If an IBO works really hard and sold 100 PV worth of goods, that IBO would get $9 or $10 in a bonus from Amway and layers of upline would split up about $90. I fail to see how that is fair, especially when IBOs seemingly say "do the work and get paid". In this case, you do the work and your uplines get paid.
I think Amway would be more efficient by giving all IBO's 20-25% back as a bonus, with the remaining 8-13% in bonus (33 - 20 or 25) going to certain levels os achievers. I believe that this would truly allow someone to change their buying habits and gain some value. It would also be good for retention of IBOs because a 100 PV would get you a monthly bonus of about $60. If you sold 100 PV to customers, you would get the retail profit plus the bonus. I believe there would be less of an emphasis on sponsoring and more of an emphasis on selling. It would put less pressure on IBO's to recruit and sponsor, and I believe that Amway's reputation could be repaired in this manner. While you would have less emphasis on "going diamond", those who did achieve it could still get handsome bonuses.
I believe implementation of this type of compensation would also eliminate the endless need for cds and seminars. Sure, product expos and some teaching on salesmanship might help, but I believe that compensating the "majority" of IBOs would keep them interested in doing business and would lessen the need for tools. I believe this is a win-win for the majority of those in the business.
I'm sure some Amway apologists will find fault in my line of reasoning, but I believe this is a long term sustainable solution for Amway. Comments are welcome.
Friday, April 13, 2012
Amway And Tool Money?
I have been reading some ongoing debates about whether the system income for higher pins is more than their Amway bonuses. I believe the systems such as BWW, WWDB, N21 or LTD, does generate more profit for upline than the sale of Amway products. How the system income is divided though, is still a mystery as it doesn't appear that there are bonafide written contracts explaining how tools income is split up among the higher pins.
But it's very easy to determine that more income is made from the system than from Amway. If you move $100 worth of Amway products, Amway will pay about $33 back in the form of bonuses. These bonuses will be split among the Amway IBOs (middlemen), depending on your level. On the other hand, if your group bought say 20 cds at $5.00each, the system will profit about $90 as cds cost about 50 cents each to produce in bulk. Some Amway apologists will cite the fact that some groups sell cds for $2.50 or $3.00. While this is true, there is a "member's fee" which must be paid. And when you add in the member's fee, the profit for the system is the same or possibly higher!
If you buy a major function ticket for $100, the cost of that function might be in the neighborhood of $25 to $30 per attendee, so the system may generate $70 profit on a $100 sale. I believe the smaller functions such as open meetings, books and voicemail have smaller profit margins, but still overall, it's easy to conclue that the profit from the system is greater than profits generated by moving Amway products.
The only question is how much each individual earns. I have "heard" that platinums get a discount on the sale of standing orders and cds, but I have never heard of a platinum sharing any profit for functions, voicemail, or any of the other materials. This is puzzling to me as I believe the platinums do the most work in the system.
So for the lower level IBOs, if you move $300 in Amway sales (Approximately 100 PV), you will receive about $10 or 3% while upline enjoys the rest of the $90+ in bonuses from Amway. And then when you purchase and move tools volume, you receive nothing and some of your uplines enjoy all of the profit. While I don't see any problem in upline making a profit for selling training materials, I see a problem in the fact that the tools don't work. So few IBOs progress to levels where an actual profit is earned. Amway supporters will point out the new platinums emerging each year, but do not mention the platinums who do not re-qualify.
Based on my observations, I can only conclude (quite easily) that there is substantially more profit from the sale of support materials for upline to enjoy, and I can also conclude that the support materials are ineffective in training downline IBOs so they can progress to higher levels of the business. I welcome opposing views on this issue.
But it's very easy to determine that more income is made from the system than from Amway. If you move $100 worth of Amway products, Amway will pay about $33 back in the form of bonuses. These bonuses will be split among the Amway IBOs (middlemen), depending on your level. On the other hand, if your group bought say 20 cds at $5.00each, the system will profit about $90 as cds cost about 50 cents each to produce in bulk. Some Amway apologists will cite the fact that some groups sell cds for $2.50 or $3.00. While this is true, there is a "member's fee" which must be paid. And when you add in the member's fee, the profit for the system is the same or possibly higher!
If you buy a major function ticket for $100, the cost of that function might be in the neighborhood of $25 to $30 per attendee, so the system may generate $70 profit on a $100 sale. I believe the smaller functions such as open meetings, books and voicemail have smaller profit margins, but still overall, it's easy to conclue that the profit from the system is greater than profits generated by moving Amway products.
The only question is how much each individual earns. I have "heard" that platinums get a discount on the sale of standing orders and cds, but I have never heard of a platinum sharing any profit for functions, voicemail, or any of the other materials. This is puzzling to me as I believe the platinums do the most work in the system.
So for the lower level IBOs, if you move $300 in Amway sales (Approximately 100 PV), you will receive about $10 or 3% while upline enjoys the rest of the $90+ in bonuses from Amway. And then when you purchase and move tools volume, you receive nothing and some of your uplines enjoy all of the profit. While I don't see any problem in upline making a profit for selling training materials, I see a problem in the fact that the tools don't work. So few IBOs progress to levels where an actual profit is earned. Amway supporters will point out the new platinums emerging each year, but do not mention the platinums who do not re-qualify.
Based on my observations, I can only conclude (quite easily) that there is substantially more profit from the sale of support materials for upline to enjoy, and I can also conclude that the support materials are ineffective in training downline IBOs so they can progress to higher levels of the business. I welcome opposing views on this issue.
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