Amway - IBOFightback Lying And Making Things Up Again?

I recently did a post about prices comaprisons between Costco and Amway:
http://amwayscheme.blogspot.com/2009/05/amway-price-comparison-with-costco.html

Of course IBOfightback (David Steadson), an Amway zealot, and apparently failed IBO wants to make assumptions and try to justify what he sees as an unfair price comparison. Of course IBOfightback doesn't live in Hawaii so unless he walked down the aisles of Costco, he cannot possibly know how I arrived at this comparison, so I will explain further.

A few months ago, an IBO who works in my building asked me to drop off a product to a common friend for him. It was a bottle of dish drops and there was a catalog in the package. So I looked at the catalog and wrote down some of the products (and prices) that I felt could be commonly found at Costco.

A few days later, I went to Costco in Iwilei, Oahu, one of the busiest Costco locations in the US. I simply wrote down the prices as I walked the aisles. I was amazed at how I could get the exact same product, or a very similar product that Amway sells, at a fraction of the cost in some cases.

IBOfightback embellishes the truth (Lies) and wants to analyze subjective issues such as the quality of Kirkland toilet paper versus meadowbrook. The Costco brand, Kirkland, is just as good (IMO) as meadowbrook at a fraction of the price (Kirkland is about $11.99 or $12.99 if bought at Costco instead of online). I cannot see or feel a difference, and I have used both brands, something that IBOfightback probably cannot claim. IBOFightback also mistakenly says there is no XS sports drink. That's funny because I drank one before and a quick google search easily confirms it. And IBOFightback has the nerve to call me outdated? LOL

Also, in layman's term's, is the average customer going to give a rat's ass if the meadowbrook brand may or may not be "better" (again, very subjective), or is that customer going to look at the price (Costco wins) and the availability (again Costco wins)? Another item, such as the golden grain pasta, is a well known national brand in the US versus the relatively unknown Amway brand. The golden grain pasta is cheaper and has name recognition. Are most customers going to buy the name brand product that is cheaper than Amway's or will they pay more for shipping plus wait one or two weeks for the Amway product? You decide.

I have clearly explained why I believe Costco offers a much better value in money and time versus Amway's. The vast majority of US consumers apparently agree with me, based on sales figures and basic common sense.

But somehow, IBOfightnack continues to attack and insult not only me, but the intelligence of my audience with his rants, lies, and half truths. IBOfightback
can analyze all of my posts and criticize it, and his kool aid drinking followers will agree with him, but the vast majority of US consumers agree with Joecool and Costco. Spin all you want IBOFB, you only make my case stronger when you do so.

P.S. Hey IBOFightback, why are you using "HideMyAss.com"? Something to hide?

Amway - IBOs? Hello? You Are Not Amway!

Amway did over 8 billion in worldwide sales last year. They also have a sales partnership with various big name companies. I believe Bass Pro was one of them. The Amway owners are wealthy and have achieved billionaire status, apparently. That is great for Amway!

IBOs, you are not Amway. Sorry for breaking the bad news to you, but you are not Amway.

IBOs are "Independent Business Owners". Although they are the middlemen for Amway products, they own their own businesses and Amway's Global success means nothing for the vast majority of rank and file IBOs. In fact, is not for IBO purchases, which make up about 96% of Amway's sales, Amway North America would probably have sales of less than 40 million dollars.

So while it is nice to be proud of the company that supplies their goods, Amway's success does not apparently trickle down to most of the IBOs. The average IBO, makes about $115 a month (Amway's numbers) and Amway subtracted out about a third of their IBOs when calculating that figure.

Amway - IBO Personal Responsibility

One of the things that I heard, and I still hear today is how an IBO can become successfuly simply by duplicating, copying, or following the advice of their upline. The concept is simple, do as you are told and you will succeed. You don't have to be brilliant, you just need the ability to copy and follow advice. I'm sure many IBOs have heard this from someone in their upline. On the surface it seems logical, just do the same things that your upline did and the results will be the same.

Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way. You cannot simply re-create your upline's circumstances and copy it. Your upline likely had a different circle of influence in their lives. They knew and associated with different people and had a different set of skills and/or qualities. Some people are more charismatic and are better at interacting with others. Some people are convincing and some are not. Some uplines may have worked with a lot of people, thus having many contacts, whereas someone who works alone at nite may not have any contacts. It is not a simple matter of copying. Even if you can get someone "in front of your upline" to see the plan, you still need to talk to people to make this happen.

Upline leaders will often convince their downline that their tools are the key to success. My sponsor used to always tell our group that "tapes sponsor people". Although a tape may have helped sponsor someone, somewhere, I never saw a single person who got sponsored because of a tape or cd. I also have not heard of anyone who got sponsored by listening to a tape.

The issue at hand though, is for hard working IBOs who work the system, do the core steps only to fail. This is where upline then places blame on the IBO rather than the system. The IBO is taught to accept personal responsibility even though the system may have failed him/her. The system will take credit for successes, but will never take responsibility for an IBO's failure. This is a problem. It's like playing a game you cannot win. The system is touted when 1 in 14,000 or so reaches the diamond level, but noone mentions the system when talking about the 13,999 who did not reach the ultimate level.

Why doesn't the system and the upline leaders take personal responsibility for a change?

Amway - Show Me The Money?

I find it humorous when so many IBOs talk about their anecdotal stories of success, or talk about how their system teaches a foolproof way of succeeding in Amway. Yet I have not seen a single IBO who was willing to describe their business structure or talk about how they progressed from zero PV into a profitable structure. Amway's biggest defender, IBOfightback is a good example of someone who can talk a good game but cannot back it up with evidence of any success in Amway. Back in my IBO days, someone who could talk a good game was a teacher, and not a doer. Many IBOs may have a good theory about how to build a business but evidence clearly shows that it is talk and not action. One specific example is how an IBO is supposed to find 20 customers who each buy 20 PV from an IBO. Amway's own numbers show that an IBO who can actually do this is rare or non existent. Less than 4% of Amway's products, apparently are sold to those who are not IBOs. IBOfightback sits in the quiet confines of his blog where his kool aid induced followers blindly agree with everything he says. Apparently, IBOFightback is all theory and no results. So I say - show us the money someone.

Based on my observations, most IBOs have a small business, unable to sponsor enough downline to move any significant volume. They faithfully self consume 100 PV and do most of the CORE steps, except for being able to consistently show the plan and sponsor downline. Why is this? It is because the Amway reputation is stained and getting people to see the plan is an enormous challenge by itself, not taking into consideration that sponsoring is even harder. If you are reading this blog and you can relate to what you see here, perhaps you need to re-think your business situation and ask your sponsor some tough questions.

Now this leads to another question. Other than flashing a photocopy of someone's diamond bonus or the like, has your sponsor or anyone upline actually showed evidence of a profit in Amway? If you asked, what response did you receive? When I asked my sponsor about profit, I was told it was "none of my business". I believe that someone who is asking you to follow their system, which is not free, should be tasked with providing this information. If your upline teaches submission to upline, even more so you should demand to see results.

If your upline or sponsor refuses to show you evidence of profit, it should send up red flags all over the place. Maybe, just maybe, the critics of Amway are onto something.

Amway - Can You Be Successful Without Deception?

I've seen the Amway commercials about two friends starting a company 50 years ago. 50 years ago, the business opportunity was much simpler. People solds things for a side income, often door to door using the little red wagon as their means of transporting their goods. At least that's how it was portrayed in the past. LOL

Later, as people started to build organizations, it was hard to continue to build and motivate groups. That's when the systems were born. The system was created (to teh best of my knowledge) to help build and motivate groups, especially distance groups. That way an IBO leader would not have to be present to motivate his groups, at least not all the time. In the beginning, the system was not a big moneymaker for the IBO leaders. Apparently, with advanced technology, the system became more efficient and the tools could be mass produced at a low cost. That's when greed started to set in and the abuses, now known as the "tools scam" began.

Although some groups and/or IBO leaders may mention tools profits, and that rank and file IBOs may one day be able to share in tools profits at a certain level, the tools business still appears to be shrouded in secrecy. It is not common knowledge among IBOs to know exactly how to qualify and how much profit you may receive from tools. In fact, it was not that long ago when IBO leaders denied making any profit from tools. It seems now that most groups have "taught" their groups that they not only make a lot of income from tools, but that they deserve it!

It brings to be the subject of my title. Can an IBO be successful without some deception? Can an IBO be successful without a lot of decpetion? In my opinion, the answer is NO. The business opportunity has too many problems for most people to be able to overcome the problems and succeed. I will elaborate;

The name Amway has a stigma, and much of that stigma is justified. IBOs have done crazy things such as lying to tricking people into attending recruitment meetings. It is still happening today. IBOs even make up stories about their products. The biggest joke in years had to be the promotion of "perfect" water. The prices of Amway and Amway partner store products are higher on average than retailers such as WalMart and Costco. In fact, for many products, it's not even close with WalMart winning hands down. Yes, Amway offeres aa bonus incentive program, but that bonus does not equal the cost savings alone that WalMart offers. Team are also taught to lie about their opportunity. They denied that Quixtar has any connection with Amway, or they call Amway a franchise, or they associate themselves with a motivational group such as WWDB or N21 and make up ridiculous stories such as "we work closwely with Amway". The reailty is when you sign on the line, you become and Amway IBO.

So can you be successful without deception? Most IBOs are unable to succeed using deception. Therefore, being upfront and truthful probably makes it less likely that you can be successful promoting Amway. IBOs may find this hard to believe, but there are many ways to make a buck. Many of those ways are easier than Amway.

Amway - The Business Works If You Work It?

The business works if you work it! That's what many Amway enthusiats will claim. I do not believe that is true and I will further explain in this post. Many IBOs who claim that the business works are usually new and are unable to show any evidence that the business works, except perhaps to show a photocopied check from an upline diamond or the like.

Let me make a disclaimer that some people do make significant money from Amway, but most of those folks are tenured diamonds who are almost in an exclusive club. There is only a short list of new diamonds that I know of in the US, and I have heard that even these new diamonds may have had legs in other countries. It would seem that Amway is not growing in the US and Canada. Also of note, Amway did not release figures that are seperate between Amway North America and the rest of their overseas operations.

Ok, so Amway enthusiasts claim that the business works if you work it. Business in its simplest form is selling a product or service for a profit. Yet many many IBOs spend so much of their time doing other things, as advised by their upline "mentors" who sell them training materials that take up much of their valuable time. Listening to tapes/cds, attending functions, reading books, and other training activities not only costs the IBO money, but takes up valuable time in non -income producing activities. Nobody makes sales reading books or attending seminars.
Inviting people to see "the plan" may be a way to help generate volume but with Amway's reputation, even this is a hit and (mostly) miss activity.

Yet IBOs spend almost all of their time doing ese activities (the work) when they could be better off not getting the training and focusing on selling the Amway products and services. Even that comes with a handicap as Amway products as a whole, costs a lot more than purchasing similar or the same products as a big retailer such as Costco or WalMart. It is why most IBOs eventually get discouraged and quit far before the promoted 2-5 year plan.

Few people will even bother to see the plan once you mention "Amway" and for those who are open minded and motivated to register end up having to deadl with a hard to sell opportunity along with high priced common commodities such as soap, vitamins and energy drinks. It's pretty easy to see that the business does not work, even for most of those who actually work it. There are simply too many issues with the business that hanidcaps those brave enough to try. It seems even the fiercest defenders of Amway are unable to provide a shred of evidence that they have actually made a profit from this opportunity.

Amway - How The Plan Sucks In New Recruits

I remember seeing the plan in a hotel setting for the first time. It was quite impressive and by observation, I believe the plan is pretty much presented the same way now as it was back when I was an IBO, save for the online features of ordering products.

The speaker would start out talking about "his" situation. He was in a job, but suddenly realized he wanted more in life. He also talked about how many Americans are living in debt, and that interest, inflation, income tax and insurance ate away at your paycheck. You go from work to home to work to home not thinking about it, but living in a "rut". His life was at the mercy of his alarm clock with weekends off for good behavior.

He says his life changed when some guy he barely knew called him up and asked if he would be interested in seeing a business presentation. A business that can be run part time, in your spare time. A part time business with low risk, low overhead and you can do as much or as little as you want.

The speaker then went on to mention that thru Amway, you can get products at a 30% discount and on top of that, you also get a "rebate" or "kickback" based on volume.
Thus you can either make money or at least save money by getting involved in the business. The speaker also mentioned that through partnerships, they have major brand product, etc.

All of this makes sense on the surface, until you take a more critical look as the business. For example, Amway and partner store products are not 30% cheaper than you can purchase them from Walmart or other big retailers. That is an outright lie. Also conveniently not mentioned was the cost of the foolproof system. (I hear that some groups mention the system now, but downplay the expenses associated with it). How many people would register if the speaker said upfront that you (if dedicated) would need to spend money to register, and then spend about $300 a month on products, and another $200 a month (or more) on the system? Keep in mind that couples expenses are generally double of a single person. All of this expense and work for a fraction of a 1% chance of reaching success?

The plan is crafted very well. Get the prospect to agree with certain things, such as income tax taking a bite out of your paycheck, then talk about how the speaker was the same way, until he discovered Amway. Then add in some deception such as Amway being 30% cheaper than buying products elsewhere. This is how prospects get sucked in.

This blog was created so prospects can make a more informed decision about joining or not. If the person recruiting you discourages you from researching the opportunity, run for the hills!