A comment left on the blog yesterday. My commentary is below:
Anonymous wrote:
So let me ask you this, all the time you people spend bashing amway/quixtar or whatever you want to call it what has it accomplished for you?? Yes I am in Amway. Yes I am an IBO. Do I consider my self an ambot or some other term you people like to call it? nope. If you people got into amway became IBO's were lazy and didn't build your business your own way than I pity you all. You are suckers. You chose to go an spend your money on motivational CD's and Tapes. You chose to follow the poor advise of you got form your upline or you were just plain lazy and couldn't sell, so you quit and decided to place the blame elsewhere besides yourself. I don't see how people think the products are over priced. I find the Vitamins to be less expensive and of better quality then stuff I'd find in GNC, Vitamin Shoppe and other such stores. The Cleaning products work great and are much less expensive than the likes of Lysol, 409, Tide, Gain, Pine sol etc etc. The Energy drinks are also pretty damn good vs the likes of sugar loaded crap like Red bull, Monster and other such drinks. So again I say too you what is there to bash? You suck selling easy to market items that is your fault not the business model fault. I don't go to meetings, I don't listen to CD's. When my upline says I should go to a convention or do something I don't want to do I simply say "NO, I'm doing fine with out it" I get my checks every month and I am doing just fine. My business is growing and I couldn't be happier. This whole planet has a problem at placing blame on others instead of living up to your own inequities. Most people can't hack it as IBO's cause they get sucked into the "GET RICH QUICK" idea and forget it's a BUSINESS that you need to invest TIME and ENERGY for it to grow!! Go open a brick and mortar store tomorrow and tell me how you do your first week, month, year. It is just really sad how all I hear is "amway is a scam!" well so is corporate America and 90% of business in general nobody seems to have a problem with Wall Street or the Financial institutions that scamed ohh what 150+ BILLION from the tax payers? wake up people! stop being sheep! think for yourself and stop blaming everyone else for your own stupid mistakes!
Joe's Commentary: Where am I "bashing" AmwayQuixtar"? For the record, I do this as a public service. Since most people lose money chasing the dream as promoted by Amway diamonds, not doing antyhing is usually financially beneficial to most people.
The cleaning products are not necessarily better or cheaper than others. See my article dated 06/29/11 about the consumer reports. The energy drinks such as red bull and monstar come in sugar free varieties so they're not all full of sugar. And they are cheaper than XS drinks.
Notice how the commentator says his business is growing but does not mention a profit. LOL The comment then calls corporate America a scam. So what if it is? It doesn't tale Amway off the hook does it? I got a few good laughs so thanks for the comment.
Thursday, June 30, 2011
Wednesday, June 29, 2011
Amway Products Are Concentrated And Superior?
Not according to consumer reports!
Check out this excerpt from the USA Today! Look at what Consumer reports says about some Amway products! Consumer reports is very credible!
http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/retail/2011-02-07-multilevelmarketing03_CV_N.htm
"The problem so many have is their prices aren't competitive in the real world," says Lou Abbott, who works in multilevel marketing and owns the industry site MLM-TheWholeTruth.com.
When it comes to detergent, Consumer Reports program manager Pat Slaven agrees. She did blind testing of detergents last year and ranked versions of Amway's Legacy of Clean detergents ninth and 18th of 20 detergents tested. She recommends against buying them because consumers can "go to the grocery store and get something that performs a whole lot better for a whole lot less money." The highly concentrated Amway brands cost 23 cents and 28 cents a load, respectively. Five of the eight recommended brands cost less.
A 31-day supply of Amway's Nutrilite Double X multivitamins is $75. Supplement retailer GNC's most comparable product, Ultra Mega Green multivitamins, cost $40 for a 60-day supply.
Amway North American managing director Steve Lieberman says, "The quality of our products (is) reflected in our pricing."
Roland Whitsell, a former business professor who spent 40 years researching and teaching the pitfalls of multilevel marketing, says it's little surprise Amway's big growth is now outside of the U.S. He says the "direct selling" in multilevel marketing is needed in countries with "primitive distribution systems and limited choices in retail stores," but its potential is "seriously limited" here.
Check out this excerpt from the USA Today! Look at what Consumer reports says about some Amway products! Consumer reports is very credible!
http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/retail/2011-02-07-multilevelmarketing03_CV_N.htm
"The problem so many have is their prices aren't competitive in the real world," says Lou Abbott, who works in multilevel marketing and owns the industry site MLM-TheWholeTruth.com.
When it comes to detergent, Consumer Reports program manager Pat Slaven agrees. She did blind testing of detergents last year and ranked versions of Amway's Legacy of Clean detergents ninth and 18th of 20 detergents tested. She recommends against buying them because consumers can "go to the grocery store and get something that performs a whole lot better for a whole lot less money." The highly concentrated Amway brands cost 23 cents and 28 cents a load, respectively. Five of the eight recommended brands cost less.
A 31-day supply of Amway's Nutrilite Double X multivitamins is $75. Supplement retailer GNC's most comparable product, Ultra Mega Green multivitamins, cost $40 for a 60-day supply.
Amway North American managing director Steve Lieberman says, "The quality of our products (is) reflected in our pricing."
Roland Whitsell, a former business professor who spent 40 years researching and teaching the pitfalls of multilevel marketing, says it's little surprise Amway's big growth is now outside of the U.S. He says the "direct selling" in multilevel marketing is needed in countries with "primitive distribution systems and limited choices in retail stores," but its potential is "seriously limited" here.
Tuesday, June 28, 2011
You Won't Get Rich At All?
One of the things upline used to say was that Amway is not "get rich quick". I suppose they say this because most people would more likely think scam if they promoted it that way. But when you stop and think about it, 2-5 years, build it right and you have willable, residual income for like while walking the beaches of the world? That's not get rich quick? Or is ot more of a disclaimer so that the opportunity doesn't sound "too good to be true"? One thing is for sure, even if uplines tell you that it's not get rich quick, it's obvious that IBOs think they will eventually get rich, even if it's not quick.
What most IBOs don't figure out quickly enough, is that they are unlikely to even make a profit, let alone getting rich in Amway. How many of these people exist? Where are all of these retired Amway IBOs who built a business in 2-5 years and then walked away from their business and will be collecting a significant residual income for many years to come afterwards? I don't know of a single person who has done this and none of the Amway defenders and zealots I have encountered over the years has been able to supply this information either.
I can acknowledge that Amway is a business opportunity and will definitely take some work to be able to achieve something. But thinking realistically, what business could you actually be able to walk away in 5 years and not work again? More than likely that business doesn't exist, whether it's Amway or not. Say you opened a conventional business. There wouldn't be many scenarios where you could walk away after a number of years. The business would still require work and maintenance. But form some reason, people are mislead to believe that you can do this in Amway where there is a high attrition rate and where your business can only expand by person to person.
Sadly, many of the people who are attracted to the Amway opportunity are often young people looking to get more out of life. They are often ambitious but may lack a means to gain wealth, thus the appeal of the opportunity is there. Unfortunately, these nice young people are more likely to end up channeling their hard earned dollars into standing orders and functions which will almost guarantee that they end up with a net loss. The bottom line is that not only is Amway not get rich quick. The more likely scenario is that your involvement with Amway will very likely be not getting rich at all. A net loss is the most likely result. I challenge anyone to try and prove me wrong on this point
What most IBOs don't figure out quickly enough, is that they are unlikely to even make a profit, let alone getting rich in Amway. How many of these people exist? Where are all of these retired Amway IBOs who built a business in 2-5 years and then walked away from their business and will be collecting a significant residual income for many years to come afterwards? I don't know of a single person who has done this and none of the Amway defenders and zealots I have encountered over the years has been able to supply this information either.
I can acknowledge that Amway is a business opportunity and will definitely take some work to be able to achieve something. But thinking realistically, what business could you actually be able to walk away in 5 years and not work again? More than likely that business doesn't exist, whether it's Amway or not. Say you opened a conventional business. There wouldn't be many scenarios where you could walk away after a number of years. The business would still require work and maintenance. But form some reason, people are mislead to believe that you can do this in Amway where there is a high attrition rate and where your business can only expand by person to person.
Sadly, many of the people who are attracted to the Amway opportunity are often young people looking to get more out of life. They are often ambitious but may lack a means to gain wealth, thus the appeal of the opportunity is there. Unfortunately, these nice young people are more likely to end up channeling their hard earned dollars into standing orders and functions which will almost guarantee that they end up with a net loss. The bottom line is that not only is Amway not get rich quick. The more likely scenario is that your involvement with Amway will very likely be not getting rich at all. A net loss is the most likely result. I challenge anyone to try and prove me wrong on this point
Monday, June 27, 2011
Amway Makes No Sense?
As an IBO, I was often told how my upline truly wanted my success. That they would always give the best advice possible so that I could succeed. On the surface, there is no other conclusion, especially for new IBOs. By having people succeed with new IBOs moving up, surely the diamond would be happy with more downline success to prove that the system and upline advice works. But I honestly believe that's not the case.
Here is where it can be difficult for prospects and new IBOs to process this train of thought. Because many upline emeralds and diamonds possibly earn more from selling premiere club, standing orders, voicemail. and functions, there is no incentive to ensure that you as a downline, succeeds. Since for many "pins", the real money is in selling the training, the bottom line for these pins is to keep having cutomers, whether they are repeat customers or not is irrelevant. If you can understand this concept, then you can understand that your upline mentors care more about their profits than your success. Toss in the possibility that new emerealds and diamonds could mean less tool money for upline, and you'll see that the best case scenario for an upline is you have you form a group and then quit before you can qualify for a share of the tools income.
This is why there are so many people who are critical of Amway and the Amway "systems". I was outright lied to about the Amway tools. I would guess that hundreds of thousands or more were told the same lies that no pforit was made from tools. Many of the perpetrators are still around, probably telling different versions of lies that they told in the past. While Amway is not a part of the tools system, they were aware of the scheme going on and sat by and watched it happen. While they have made some attempts to reign in the tools kingpins, the attempts, in my opinion, have no teeth and the tools kinpins simply skirt the rules to their advantage.
While a legal explanation might make Amway seem logical and clean, the reality is that the Amway opportunity, when combined with the tools, or teaching (success) systems, the result is a nearly guranteed path to failure and business losses. The math and the real life results prove it. Whether you want to believe it or not is up to you.
Here is where it can be difficult for prospects and new IBOs to process this train of thought. Because many upline emeralds and diamonds possibly earn more from selling premiere club, standing orders, voicemail. and functions, there is no incentive to ensure that you as a downline, succeeds. Since for many "pins", the real money is in selling the training, the bottom line for these pins is to keep having cutomers, whether they are repeat customers or not is irrelevant. If you can understand this concept, then you can understand that your upline mentors care more about their profits than your success. Toss in the possibility that new emerealds and diamonds could mean less tool money for upline, and you'll see that the best case scenario for an upline is you have you form a group and then quit before you can qualify for a share of the tools income.
This is why there are so many people who are critical of Amway and the Amway "systems". I was outright lied to about the Amway tools. I would guess that hundreds of thousands or more were told the same lies that no pforit was made from tools. Many of the perpetrators are still around, probably telling different versions of lies that they told in the past. While Amway is not a part of the tools system, they were aware of the scheme going on and sat by and watched it happen. While they have made some attempts to reign in the tools kingpins, the attempts, in my opinion, have no teeth and the tools kinpins simply skirt the rules to their advantage.
While a legal explanation might make Amway seem logical and clean, the reality is that the Amway opportunity, when combined with the tools, or teaching (success) systems, the result is a nearly guranteed path to failure and business losses. The math and the real life results prove it. Whether you want to believe it or not is up to you.
Thursday, June 23, 2011
Joecool Irks Anonymous Canadian Amway Zealot
Reprint:
Over the last year or so, there's someone, possibly an IBO (but I'm not sure) who has been occasionally leaving idle threats on Joecool's blog. He claims to know my true identity outside of my Joecool Persona and also mistakenly thinks I am also the person who goes by the handle of "Tex" and he is again sorely mistaken. Tex is a known liar and racist and has made numerous racist statements on other blogs. Also, Joecool is from Hawaii and not from Plano Texas.
This anonymous claims to have additional information about me that he is sending to Amway and some other authorities. Here's what the anonymous coward from Canada posted a few months back. I have been documenting these "idle threats" in case the anonymous coward tries to make good on any of these idle threats. Here's the post:
Anonymous said...
"Just go and hang yourself or shoot a bullet through your empty skull. You speak like someone who quit and is bitter in life. Your posts are misleading and you want to do nothing less than kill people's dreams and hopes for a better life. You're an irresponsible man in all of your life dealings and quick at throwing the dead cat from your garden to your neighboor's. Oh, it's not me, it's you, it's him, it's them whatever. Lack of discipline and not accepting responsibility. That's why you didn't make it in Amway and for that matter in any other past or future businesses."
Anonymous said...
"How about I punch you in the face to make you stop"
There are more statements like this one but I will not publish all of them. I have reason to believe that this may be the same anonymous person who left me a threat just about two years ago. IBOFightback aka David Steadson lied when he claimed that I said Amway IBOs threatened me. I clearly said a "zealot". I never once said an IBO or anyone affiliated with Amway sent me anything threatening. IBOFightback also thinks I lied about the threats previously because he wasn't forwarded copies of what was said. IBOFightback also lied about completing an investigation that revealed all of the truth because he never contacted me about all of this. His investigation apprently consisted of reading comments on his own forum/blog. I wasn't previously able to verify the person's ID as I had just installed a site tracker and was not adept at identifying an IP address to the post. Well, this is it:
Rogers Cable (99.245.94.215) IP address
Scarborough, Ontario, Canada
P.S. I am still waiting for the authorities to shut down my blog.
Over the last year or so, there's someone, possibly an IBO (but I'm not sure) who has been occasionally leaving idle threats on Joecool's blog. He claims to know my true identity outside of my Joecool Persona and also mistakenly thinks I am also the person who goes by the handle of "Tex" and he is again sorely mistaken. Tex is a known liar and racist and has made numerous racist statements on other blogs. Also, Joecool is from Hawaii and not from Plano Texas.
This anonymous claims to have additional information about me that he is sending to Amway and some other authorities. Here's what the anonymous coward from Canada posted a few months back. I have been documenting these "idle threats" in case the anonymous coward tries to make good on any of these idle threats. Here's the post:
Anonymous said...
"Just go and hang yourself or shoot a bullet through your empty skull. You speak like someone who quit and is bitter in life. Your posts are misleading and you want to do nothing less than kill people's dreams and hopes for a better life. You're an irresponsible man in all of your life dealings and quick at throwing the dead cat from your garden to your neighboor's. Oh, it's not me, it's you, it's him, it's them whatever. Lack of discipline and not accepting responsibility. That's why you didn't make it in Amway and for that matter in any other past or future businesses."
Anonymous said...
"How about I punch you in the face to make you stop"
There are more statements like this one but I will not publish all of them. I have reason to believe that this may be the same anonymous person who left me a threat just about two years ago. IBOFightback aka David Steadson lied when he claimed that I said Amway IBOs threatened me. I clearly said a "zealot". I never once said an IBO or anyone affiliated with Amway sent me anything threatening. IBOFightback also thinks I lied about the threats previously because he wasn't forwarded copies of what was said. IBOFightback also lied about completing an investigation that revealed all of the truth because he never contacted me about all of this. His investigation apprently consisted of reading comments on his own forum/blog. I wasn't previously able to verify the person's ID as I had just installed a site tracker and was not adept at identifying an IP address to the post. Well, this is it:
Rogers Cable (99.245.94.215) IP address
Scarborough, Ontario, Canada
P.S. I am still waiting for the authorities to shut down my blog.
The Amway Reality?
One of the things that attracts many IBOs to the Amway opportunity is the idea that they can work part time, 2-5 years and gain a "shortcut" to ongoing and voluminous wealth. Many of the prospects don't have the kind of income or resources that they would like, so the possibility of a shortcut to these trappings sounds like a good idea. They sign up and get started, and then the realities of the business sets in.
100 PV, is the defacto minimum quota for business building IBOs. It costs about $300 to purchase 100 PV worth of products. How many young and single people or couples for that matter, use and/or need $300 worth of household products each month? How many of these same people can actually afford to expend that much cash on household products? The pitch is to change where you shop but how many people were buying these kinds of good prior to Amway? My guess is none. I know I purchased many items, including vitamins, and I didn't need or use before Amway. But my desire to be teachable and to be an example to my downline kept me buying the goods, and trying to pawn off some stuff on friends and relatives to lessen my PV burden.
I also found that getting people to see the plan was no easy task. While my business was growing, it took more and more effort to recruit downline and I can see where many IBOs would reach the saturation point where there simply aren't anymore viable recruits and they might need to resort to cold contacting in order to generate potential prospects. This is probably why there are stories of IBOs stalking people in bookstores, malls and supermarkets. Even when people saw the plan, there wasn't a high percentage of new people signing up. It is why building and maintaining a business is a nearly impossible task, and it is why I believe there aren't people who retire, walk away from their Amway businesses and enjoy six figure residual incomes for life.
The more likely scenario is an IBO signing up, buy and using the products and tools and slowly but surely build up debt. There are countless stories of ex IBOs who got fired up, started building the business and fouond that in a relatively short period of time, found themselves in thousands or tens of thousands of dollars in debt. All the while upline was encouraging them to buy more tools and attend more function, even when they were not profitable. In my opinion, this is confirmation that uplines care more about their tools profits that they do about downline success. I sat in functions where upline would teach about reducing debt, but in the same breath, say it was okay to go deeper in debt if it was to purchase more tools. Self serving advice.
It is why I believe this opportunity, along with the tools system, will nearly guarantee IBO failure. It is sad, but it is also a reality.
100 PV, is the defacto minimum quota for business building IBOs. It costs about $300 to purchase 100 PV worth of products. How many young and single people or couples for that matter, use and/or need $300 worth of household products each month? How many of these same people can actually afford to expend that much cash on household products? The pitch is to change where you shop but how many people were buying these kinds of good prior to Amway? My guess is none. I know I purchased many items, including vitamins, and I didn't need or use before Amway. But my desire to be teachable and to be an example to my downline kept me buying the goods, and trying to pawn off some stuff on friends and relatives to lessen my PV burden.
I also found that getting people to see the plan was no easy task. While my business was growing, it took more and more effort to recruit downline and I can see where many IBOs would reach the saturation point where there simply aren't anymore viable recruits and they might need to resort to cold contacting in order to generate potential prospects. This is probably why there are stories of IBOs stalking people in bookstores, malls and supermarkets. Even when people saw the plan, there wasn't a high percentage of new people signing up. It is why building and maintaining a business is a nearly impossible task, and it is why I believe there aren't people who retire, walk away from their Amway businesses and enjoy six figure residual incomes for life.
The more likely scenario is an IBO signing up, buy and using the products and tools and slowly but surely build up debt. There are countless stories of ex IBOs who got fired up, started building the business and fouond that in a relatively short period of time, found themselves in thousands or tens of thousands of dollars in debt. All the while upline was encouraging them to buy more tools and attend more function, even when they were not profitable. In my opinion, this is confirmation that uplines care more about their tools profits that they do about downline success. I sat in functions where upline would teach about reducing debt, but in the same breath, say it was okay to go deeper in debt if it was to purchase more tools. Self serving advice.
It is why I believe this opportunity, along with the tools system, will nearly guarantee IBO failure. It is sad, but it is also a reality.
Wednesday, June 22, 2011
Why People Quit Amway?
I often see commentary about people quitting Amway and Amway loyalists are quick to call them broke, losers, lazy, lacking guts. Ironically, these same lazy and loser types of people were "sharp" and motivated prospects before they signed up for the Amway opportunity. Someone recently left a comment on my blog about how AMOs should conduct exit interviews with departing IBOs to get to the root of the problems.
However, based on my years of blogging and Amway experiences, I can honestly say I believe that people quit Amway primarily for one reason. The money isn't there. Amway's own numbers show that the averahe IBO earns just over $100 a month and that is before taxes and expenses. Business building IBOs earn most of the bonuses, but business building IBOs generally have the most expenses, often participating in the system of standing orders and functions.
When I was an IBO, I did as upline advised and I achieved a fairly significant level (4000 PV), but due to the expenses associated with tools and helping downline, I didn't earn net profit. This is confirmed by a study done by the Wisconsin attroney general who examined the tax returns of platinume and found that they averaged a net loss of about $1000 a year. While the study was a bit dated, I would suggest it is still very valid as platinums today, have more tools (business building materials) that they are expected to buy from upline. If I made nothing at 4000 PV, anyone with half a brain can conclude that IBOs below 4000 PV and fully participating on the system would end up with a net loss because their expenses would be similar to mine, but with less bonus money.
The bottom line is that people are very likely quitting because they aren't profitable. If people made a few hundred a month with 8-15 hours of work per week, they would continue to run their businesses. But those who work and make nothing or lose money have no reason or motivation to continue. Thus they simply make a wise business decision and quit. What seemed like a good idea during the presentation simply did not pan out when reality set in. It's also reasonable to conclude that the products are that great either because if they were, those who quit would become loyal customers, thus even if the sales force turned over, sales would consistently rise as former IBOs would become customers. It's apparent that most former IBOs do not become loyal Amway customers. In fact, for those who later discover they were lied to or deceived about the Amway opportunity, become critical of Amway instead.
Why do people quit Amway? I think the answer is crystal clear.
However, based on my years of blogging and Amway experiences, I can honestly say I believe that people quit Amway primarily for one reason. The money isn't there. Amway's own numbers show that the averahe IBO earns just over $100 a month and that is before taxes and expenses. Business building IBOs earn most of the bonuses, but business building IBOs generally have the most expenses, often participating in the system of standing orders and functions.
When I was an IBO, I did as upline advised and I achieved a fairly significant level (4000 PV), but due to the expenses associated with tools and helping downline, I didn't earn net profit. This is confirmed by a study done by the Wisconsin attroney general who examined the tax returns of platinume and found that they averaged a net loss of about $1000 a year. While the study was a bit dated, I would suggest it is still very valid as platinums today, have more tools (business building materials) that they are expected to buy from upline. If I made nothing at 4000 PV, anyone with half a brain can conclude that IBOs below 4000 PV and fully participating on the system would end up with a net loss because their expenses would be similar to mine, but with less bonus money.
The bottom line is that people are very likely quitting because they aren't profitable. If people made a few hundred a month with 8-15 hours of work per week, they would continue to run their businesses. But those who work and make nothing or lose money have no reason or motivation to continue. Thus they simply make a wise business decision and quit. What seemed like a good idea during the presentation simply did not pan out when reality set in. It's also reasonable to conclude that the products are that great either because if they were, those who quit would become loyal customers, thus even if the sales force turned over, sales would consistently rise as former IBOs would become customers. It's apparent that most former IBOs do not become loyal Amway customers. In fact, for those who later discover they were lied to or deceived about the Amway opportunity, become critical of Amway instead.
Why do people quit Amway? I think the answer is crystal clear.
Subscribe to:
Comments (Atom)