I recently read a comment from an Amway apologist on another forum. She mentions that someone's credentials must be considered when looking at information that is presented by critics. I will comment that showing me a sports car or a fancy suit is not proof of financial success. Telling the audience that you buy homes in cash is not proof either. In fact, some of these boasting diamonds were found to have their homes foreclosed and some had financial difficulty, even though they at times had shown off pictures of their lifestyles. I believe that many diamonds are likely to be more like the general US population - in debt. In debt trying to portray a lifestyle that is unsustainable with their Amway and Amway related income.
I find this subject ironic because not one single upline leader, as far as I know, has ever supplied bonafide credentials about themselves. The audience assumes that the person on stage has success and certain credentials, but do they really? I will say that certainly, if someone is wearing a diamond pin for example, that this person has at least achieved the diamond level as recognized by Amway, but the level may not be current, and the level doesn't indicate the kind of income this person earns from Amway. (Joecool is criticized for being outdated even though I was at 4000 PV at one point in my Amway career)
What many people assume is that the diamonds buy homes and cars in cash, that they wake up at noon every day and participate in leisure activities all day while the cash rolls in. I have heard from some new IBOs, that their upline makes more money taking a crap in the morning than a critic makes in a whole year at a job. That IBO became quiet when some critics offered to take that bet. (Do the math people)
But the truth of the matter is that as far as I know, only former diamonds have come clean about their Amway income. They are the only ones who spoke of credentials and accomplishments. Even critics of Amway will often openly speak about their experiences and achieved levels in the business. In the REAL business world, showing business tax returns and credentials are a normal part of doing business. It appears that only in the world of Amway is the supply of credentials and financial statements a big secret. Now I am not suggesting that IBOs or upline leaders should disclose their financials to the entire world, but certainly prospects and some downline should be able to see how their upline is doing financially in Amway, especially if that is the basis for purchasing their standing orders and function tickets. And I refer to business (Amway and Tools) income and expenses only, not from other personal sources.
I believe that IBOs and upline leaders do not disclose that information because it would not be beneficial to them. If it were, they would likely publish it freely, just as they flash around copies of checks. IBOs and prospects should take this to heart and ask upline the tough questions
Thursday, May 30, 2019
Wednesday, May 29, 2019
The 2-5 Year Myth?
One of the things I heard, and is still promoted is the concept of a 2-5 year plan to financial freedom. As a prospect, 2-5 years of hard work in your spare time sounds reasonable. After all, anyone can work an extra 12 hours a week for a couple of years with that kind of reward awaiting you at the end. The sad reality is that you are likely to suffer 2-5 years of financial losses without getting any closer to financial freedom.
When Amway morphed into Quixtar, a very relevant question was how many diamonds were "quixtar only", meaning they signed up in 1999 when quixtar was implemented and then became diamonds in the advertised 2-5 years. As far as I know, there were very few (if any) new diamonds. The new diamonds that were named all seemingly came from other countries, not the US or Canada. Even now, my former LOS (WWDB) is touting "double eagle rubies" which is not a recognized achievement by Amway (as far as I know), and there is no assurance that achieving such a level makes an IBO profitable. In fact, the eagle program run by WWDB is only measuring tool parameters which is great for upline but not necessarily for the IBOs.
Even today, I do not see a steady stream of new diamonds emerging from Amway. If the 2-5 year plan actually worked, there would be new diamonds constantly emerging. Instead, my former LOS (WWDB), actually has fewer diamonds now than back in my IBO days. And of those diamonds who remain, some of them had homes foreclosed and it also appears that at least a few of them ran into some financial difficulties. Makes me wonder what a diamond's finances actually look like. I suspect many of them live in debt, especially if they flaunt the "diamond lifestyle", which is probably not sustainable on diamond income as reported by Amway.
So while it might be possible to achieve diamond in 2-5 years (some have done it), but tens of millions (or more) have tried. It is much more likely that you will win the lottery (provided you have a ticket) than it is likely that you will join Amway and go diamond. It is also unlikely that people in the US and Canada who join will go diamond in the advertised 2-5 years. The 2-5 year plan is not promoted by Amway, but by the LOS leaders. I believe it is a hoax and the numbers back up my claim. You are much more likely to be better off working part time for 2-5 years and saving and investing for your future. If not, you will end up with 2-5 years of losing money on functions and standing orders.
As many Amway leaders will state: Look at the fruit on the tree. In the US and Canada, the trees are bare.
When Amway morphed into Quixtar, a very relevant question was how many diamonds were "quixtar only", meaning they signed up in 1999 when quixtar was implemented and then became diamonds in the advertised 2-5 years. As far as I know, there were very few (if any) new diamonds. The new diamonds that were named all seemingly came from other countries, not the US or Canada. Even now, my former LOS (WWDB) is touting "double eagle rubies" which is not a recognized achievement by Amway (as far as I know), and there is no assurance that achieving such a level makes an IBO profitable. In fact, the eagle program run by WWDB is only measuring tool parameters which is great for upline but not necessarily for the IBOs.
Even today, I do not see a steady stream of new diamonds emerging from Amway. If the 2-5 year plan actually worked, there would be new diamonds constantly emerging. Instead, my former LOS (WWDB), actually has fewer diamonds now than back in my IBO days. And of those diamonds who remain, some of them had homes foreclosed and it also appears that at least a few of them ran into some financial difficulties. Makes me wonder what a diamond's finances actually look like. I suspect many of them live in debt, especially if they flaunt the "diamond lifestyle", which is probably not sustainable on diamond income as reported by Amway.
So while it might be possible to achieve diamond in 2-5 years (some have done it), but tens of millions (or more) have tried. It is much more likely that you will win the lottery (provided you have a ticket) than it is likely that you will join Amway and go diamond. It is also unlikely that people in the US and Canada who join will go diamond in the advertised 2-5 years. The 2-5 year plan is not promoted by Amway, but by the LOS leaders. I believe it is a hoax and the numbers back up my claim. You are much more likely to be better off working part time for 2-5 years and saving and investing for your future. If not, you will end up with 2-5 years of losing money on functions and standing orders.
As many Amway leaders will state: Look at the fruit on the tree. In the US and Canada, the trees are bare.
Tuesday, May 28, 2019
Success Speaks For Itself?
I heard a great comment from a commentator on a related Amway blog. Basically, he said if IBOs were so successful, people would just naturally be attracted. And that's true! Where I live, the local electric company is an attractive place to work with a good salary and benefits package. When there's a handful of openings, you might get as many as 6,000 people applying for these positions. When the federal government hires for the local post office, you get thousands of applicants for a handful of jobs as well.
But IBOs have to justify their positions. The common ones are how Amway products are concentrated, or they have magical ingredients in their vitamins. It is my position that if these products were so good and the opportunity actually produced successful IBOs, there would be no need to be deceptive about the products or opportunity. The products could easily me marketed. In fact, customers would be seeking IBOs to find the products and there would be lines of people waiting to see the opportunity. But that isn't the case. Clearly, Amway IBOs use some degree of deception usually called the curiosity approach or outright lies.
Instead, IBOs themselves are the primary consumers of Amway products. Many IBOs are deceptive when inviting people to see the Amway plan. Some prospects are outright lied to when recruited for the Amway opportunity. The curiosity approach is still used by many, because mentioning "Amway" is more likely to get you funny looks than interest. If what I am writing is not true, why do IBOs need to deceive people? Why don't some IBOs open their books and display the financial success they claim to have? Why so secretive? Why aren't there hoards of new diamonds and emeralds each month? Instead, you mainly hear of the Amway growth in foreign countries. Most likely because the Amway name and reputation has not yet been soiled as it has in the US and Canada.
In the US, I see primarily the same old diamonds who were in control of the functions and systems from more than 20 years ago. In fact, factoring in diamonds who quit or dropped out, I believe there are fewer diamonds now than when I was an IBO in the 1990s. Some of these diamonds also had some apparent financial difficulties. The opportunity is far from how it's promoted. Success speaks louder than words, and where North American Amway success is concerned, the silence is deafening!
But IBOs have to justify their positions. The common ones are how Amway products are concentrated, or they have magical ingredients in their vitamins. It is my position that if these products were so good and the opportunity actually produced successful IBOs, there would be no need to be deceptive about the products or opportunity. The products could easily me marketed. In fact, customers would be seeking IBOs to find the products and there would be lines of people waiting to see the opportunity. But that isn't the case. Clearly, Amway IBOs use some degree of deception usually called the curiosity approach or outright lies.
Instead, IBOs themselves are the primary consumers of Amway products. Many IBOs are deceptive when inviting people to see the Amway plan. Some prospects are outright lied to when recruited for the Amway opportunity. The curiosity approach is still used by many, because mentioning "Amway" is more likely to get you funny looks than interest. If what I am writing is not true, why do IBOs need to deceive people? Why don't some IBOs open their books and display the financial success they claim to have? Why so secretive? Why aren't there hoards of new diamonds and emeralds each month? Instead, you mainly hear of the Amway growth in foreign countries. Most likely because the Amway name and reputation has not yet been soiled as it has in the US and Canada.
In the US, I see primarily the same old diamonds who were in control of the functions and systems from more than 20 years ago. In fact, factoring in diamonds who quit or dropped out, I believe there are fewer diamonds now than when I was an IBO in the 1990s. Some of these diamonds also had some apparent financial difficulties. The opportunity is far from how it's promoted. Success speaks louder than words, and where North American Amway success is concerned, the silence is deafening!
Friday, May 24, 2019
Why Did I Join Amway?
For people who have already joined Amway and are trying to make a buck, only to see net losses month after month, you have to wonder at times why you joined Amway. As an IBO, I initially joined as it was pitched to me that I could easily earn a couple of hundred dollars a month, which could make a big impact on my life at the time. Of course it made sense that I needed to invest a little bit of money to get started and to learn about how to run a business.
When I got started, there was a lot of hype and excitement in my business. I sponsored people and my business was on its way. I was touted as a mover and shaker and even got to attend some home board plans with my upline diamond. Even though I did as I was advised, had the parameters in the business that were recommended, I noticed that any cash I had earned still resulted in a loss, or if I made some money, the "next major function" ate it up and then some. As you should know, there are four major functions and a bunch of regional ones. But for many, the major functions take place out of your area, requiring travel, sometimes by air.
It was at the function called "family reunion" where I started to figure out what was happening. My upline platinum was having us "hang out" after the function at about 1:30 am. He started talking about how the business has nothing to do with money. That we made friends, became nicer people, better spouses or parents, and that money was the least important aspect of the business. While many nodded in agreement, I was thinking what the heck??? I wouldn't have joined and "invested" that much time and money into a business where I was "moving and shaking" but not making money.
Many IBOs are at a point where it may be hard to quit. You may have invested some time, money, and effort into your business and you may have been programmed to think that quitting is failure or that success is right around the corner and you don't want to quit too soon. But I urge you to look at facts. What is your bottom line net income? It is red numbers? Is it a recurring loss, primarily because of tool and function purchases? If that is true, ask yourself why you joined. Was it to be a nicer person or to earn some money?
What are your prospects of making a net profit soon if you are breaking even or taking losses? Amway leaders themselves have often said that insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Where are you at?
When I got started, there was a lot of hype and excitement in my business. I sponsored people and my business was on its way. I was touted as a mover and shaker and even got to attend some home board plans with my upline diamond. Even though I did as I was advised, had the parameters in the business that were recommended, I noticed that any cash I had earned still resulted in a loss, or if I made some money, the "next major function" ate it up and then some. As you should know, there are four major functions and a bunch of regional ones. But for many, the major functions take place out of your area, requiring travel, sometimes by air.
It was at the function called "family reunion" where I started to figure out what was happening. My upline platinum was having us "hang out" after the function at about 1:30 am. He started talking about how the business has nothing to do with money. That we made friends, became nicer people, better spouses or parents, and that money was the least important aspect of the business. While many nodded in agreement, I was thinking what the heck??? I wouldn't have joined and "invested" that much time and money into a business where I was "moving and shaking" but not making money.
Many IBOs are at a point where it may be hard to quit. You may have invested some time, money, and effort into your business and you may have been programmed to think that quitting is failure or that success is right around the corner and you don't want to quit too soon. But I urge you to look at facts. What is your bottom line net income? It is red numbers? Is it a recurring loss, primarily because of tool and function purchases? If that is true, ask yourself why you joined. Was it to be a nicer person or to earn some money?
What are your prospects of making a net profit soon if you are breaking even or taking losses? Amway leaders themselves have often said that insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Where are you at?
Wednesday, May 22, 2019
Debt Free?
One of the things that many Amway uplines will talk about with their downline is debt. Many IBOs and prospects join Amway, hoping that Amway will help them eliminate debt, by providing some extra income. What many IBOs find out though, is that they end up more deeply in debt, not because of Amway necessarily, but often because of the pressure to purchase tools and function tickets.
Eliminating debt on the surface, is a good thing. However, I believe that many uplines only want IBOs to eliminate debt so they can free up discretionary monies that can be channeled into tool purchases, which uplines profit from. So while the advice seems sound, it still ends up as a self serving piece of advice. If you are an IBO or a prospect, is your upline advising you to eliminate debt and then turning around and telling you to attend "all" functions or to purchase more tools such as standing orders or audios/cds?
As a WWDB IBO, I heard the mantra about getting rid of debt. It sounded good to me, but I was floored when the same upline told us it was okay to go deeper in hock if it was to further our business, or in other words, to buy more standing orders or to attend functions. I could not understand why it was okay to create more debt, but only to "invest" in your business. If debt is bad, then functions and other tools should be cut as well, until the IBO can reasonably afford to participate in the system or until the business profits can cover the cost. IBOs, in my opinion. should be using profits from the business in order to purchase tools. If there is no net profit, then that IBO needs to decide whether or not the tools are worthy of an investment. Even if an IBO has some profits, the IBOs should determine whether to bank the profit or to channel them towards tool purchases.
Too many IBOs trust their upline and make initial and ongoing purchases of tools, and then continue to do so without seeing tangible results. I believe this is why IBOs are taught to trust and have faith. Or that success is right around the corner. It keeps an IBO going, even in the absence of results. Hopefully a post like this can bring awareness to IBOs and potential IBOs. Good luck to those who disregard this information.
Eliminating debt on the surface, is a good thing. However, I believe that many uplines only want IBOs to eliminate debt so they can free up discretionary monies that can be channeled into tool purchases, which uplines profit from. So while the advice seems sound, it still ends up as a self serving piece of advice. If you are an IBO or a prospect, is your upline advising you to eliminate debt and then turning around and telling you to attend "all" functions or to purchase more tools such as standing orders or audios/cds?
As a WWDB IBO, I heard the mantra about getting rid of debt. It sounded good to me, but I was floored when the same upline told us it was okay to go deeper in hock if it was to further our business, or in other words, to buy more standing orders or to attend functions. I could not understand why it was okay to create more debt, but only to "invest" in your business. If debt is bad, then functions and other tools should be cut as well, until the IBO can reasonably afford to participate in the system or until the business profits can cover the cost. IBOs, in my opinion. should be using profits from the business in order to purchase tools. If there is no net profit, then that IBO needs to decide whether or not the tools are worthy of an investment. Even if an IBO has some profits, the IBOs should determine whether to bank the profit or to channel them towards tool purchases.
Too many IBOs trust their upline and make initial and ongoing purchases of tools, and then continue to do so without seeing tangible results. I believe this is why IBOs are taught to trust and have faith. Or that success is right around the corner. It keeps an IBO going, even in the absence of results. Hopefully a post like this can bring awareness to IBOs and potential IBOs. Good luck to those who disregard this information.
Tuesday, May 21, 2019
Trusting Upline?
Over the years, I have encountered many Amway IBOs and they often have a common theme. They trust their upline and in some cases, consider them mentors. Now in a business venture, it might be good to have a mentor or someone to guide you, but in the Amway opportunity, most of the upline mentors make money off those who they mentor. That is a major conflict of interest but IBOs simply fail to see it. Rather than mentors, maybe a paid consultant is a better description of the relationship. What IBOs also fail to see, is that there is an utter lack of success overall in the field of rank and file IBOs.
When an IBO sees the plan in a big meeting, the speaker will often be built up as a financial guru, and possibly as an expert on how to succeed in Amway. An IBO may have heard something about the trail was already blazed by upline and you just need to follow the trail. Don't re-invent the wheel, just copy what upline did. But as I have said many times before, duplication sounds easy and looks good on paper, but in real life, the vast majority of IBOs run into problems that they simply cannot overcome, such as the bad reputation that the Amway name has in the US. Add that to the less than competitive prices that Amway products sell for, and you have a problem.
What is troubling however, is that IBOs are taught to trust upline and do as they say (defacto requirement), but they are also taught that failure is due to their own shortcomings, even when they do exactly what upline told them. It is also troubling that many uplines will tell their faithful followers that they need to purchase more and more tools (voicemail, cds, seminar tickets). In some cases, an upline may advise their downline to sacrifice basic family needs to buy these tools. Some IBOs were advised to skip meals to buy a cd, or skip paying the mortgage/rent to be able to attend the next big function. How is that good advice?
I might also add that as a newer IBO or prospect, you may have heard that "everyone starts at zero", or that it's a level playing field. It is not. As a new IBO, you will likely be in the 100 PV bracket. Since Amway pays out about 30+% in bonuses, your upline(s) will split up the lion's share in bonuses off your efforts while you get a 3 %bonus. That doesn't sound very level to me. And upline is entitled to that because they were in Amway before you?
So each IBO should look at things objectively and see if your upline is helping you or simply helping himself by giving you advice that ends up in profit for himself with little or nothing for you.
When an IBO sees the plan in a big meeting, the speaker will often be built up as a financial guru, and possibly as an expert on how to succeed in Amway. An IBO may have heard something about the trail was already blazed by upline and you just need to follow the trail. Don't re-invent the wheel, just copy what upline did. But as I have said many times before, duplication sounds easy and looks good on paper, but in real life, the vast majority of IBOs run into problems that they simply cannot overcome, such as the bad reputation that the Amway name has in the US. Add that to the less than competitive prices that Amway products sell for, and you have a problem.
What is troubling however, is that IBOs are taught to trust upline and do as they say (defacto requirement), but they are also taught that failure is due to their own shortcomings, even when they do exactly what upline told them. It is also troubling that many uplines will tell their faithful followers that they need to purchase more and more tools (voicemail, cds, seminar tickets). In some cases, an upline may advise their downline to sacrifice basic family needs to buy these tools. Some IBOs were advised to skip meals to buy a cd, or skip paying the mortgage/rent to be able to attend the next big function. How is that good advice?
I might also add that as a newer IBO or prospect, you may have heard that "everyone starts at zero", or that it's a level playing field. It is not. As a new IBO, you will likely be in the 100 PV bracket. Since Amway pays out about 30+% in bonuses, your upline(s) will split up the lion's share in bonuses off your efforts while you get a 3 %bonus. That doesn't sound very level to me. And upline is entitled to that because they were in Amway before you?
So each IBO should look at things objectively and see if your upline is helping you or simply helping himself by giving you advice that ends up in profit for himself with little or nothing for you.
Monday, May 20, 2019
Amway IBOs Have Business Mentality?
One of the things IBOs "think" they possess, but in reality they are far from it, is "Business Mentality". It is not necessarily the fault of the IBOs. Many are sponsored into Amway by trusted friends and lacking business experience, they will "submit" to upline as they are advised and will try to learn about the Amway business. The problem is that many upline leaders teach self serving business practices such as hard core dedication to their tools system, from which they often handsomely profit. Let's examine some of the questionable practices.
"Buy from yourself". If you have a business owner mentality, you only buy from yourself if it's beneficial to your business. Many IBOs talk about ridiculous things like a McDonald's owner would never eat at Burger King. That's bull crap. Just because I own a McDonald's doesn't mean I am eating Big Macs the rest of my life. You cannot spend yourself to prosperity. If I sold pens for $1.00 and my cost was .50, and my competitor had a special on the same pens at 3 for $1.00, I'm buying them from my competition. Also, buying from yourself makes you a customer, not a business owner.
"Ignore facts if you have a dream". This is probably the biggest heap of bull crap taught by some upline. I have seen this spouted in particular by IBOs downline from WWDB and BWW leaders. A business owner studies the facts, not ignores them. Any REAL business owner wants to know how much he is bringing in and how much is going out. That's how you detect the heartbeat of your business. A site visitor named Gina on this site, recently posted a profit/loss statement from her real business. Naturally, IBOs were at a loss to discuss it because it was foreign material to them.
"Submit to upline" Another load of hogwash. Why should someone submit to upline simply because they "sponsored me" or whatever? A real business owner would think independently and make business decisions based on facts and numbers, not on the advice of someone upline who hasn't taken the time to assess each IBO on a personal level to be able to give advice on an IBO's "Independent Business", or worse, advice on their personal lives".
"Dedication to the system". Silly advice as well. What dedication does the system have for an IBO? If an IBO succeeds (which is very rare), the system takes credit, but for the more than 99% of people who never make a significant income, it is their own fault if they don't make it. Amway apologists will defend this by saying that many may not have signed up wanting a significant income. While that may be partially true, tell me where people show "plans" designed for the guy who wants an extra $100 a month? The plans shown are always (AFAIK) to go platinum or diamond.
IBOs and information seekers, does any of this sound familiar? Is this a part of your experience? If so, I encourage you to ask questions here and get more information before proceeding with any more "business" activity.
"Buy from yourself". If you have a business owner mentality, you only buy from yourself if it's beneficial to your business. Many IBOs talk about ridiculous things like a McDonald's owner would never eat at Burger King. That's bull crap. Just because I own a McDonald's doesn't mean I am eating Big Macs the rest of my life. You cannot spend yourself to prosperity. If I sold pens for $1.00 and my cost was .50, and my competitor had a special on the same pens at 3 for $1.00, I'm buying them from my competition. Also, buying from yourself makes you a customer, not a business owner.
"Ignore facts if you have a dream". This is probably the biggest heap of bull crap taught by some upline. I have seen this spouted in particular by IBOs downline from WWDB and BWW leaders. A business owner studies the facts, not ignores them. Any REAL business owner wants to know how much he is bringing in and how much is going out. That's how you detect the heartbeat of your business. A site visitor named Gina on this site, recently posted a profit/loss statement from her real business. Naturally, IBOs were at a loss to discuss it because it was foreign material to them.
"Submit to upline" Another load of hogwash. Why should someone submit to upline simply because they "sponsored me" or whatever? A real business owner would think independently and make business decisions based on facts and numbers, not on the advice of someone upline who hasn't taken the time to assess each IBO on a personal level to be able to give advice on an IBO's "Independent Business", or worse, advice on their personal lives".
"Dedication to the system". Silly advice as well. What dedication does the system have for an IBO? If an IBO succeeds (which is very rare), the system takes credit, but for the more than 99% of people who never make a significant income, it is their own fault if they don't make it. Amway apologists will defend this by saying that many may not have signed up wanting a significant income. While that may be partially true, tell me where people show "plans" designed for the guy who wants an extra $100 a month? The plans shown are always (AFAIK) to go platinum or diamond.
IBOs and information seekers, does any of this sound familiar? Is this a part of your experience? If so, I encourage you to ask questions here and get more information before proceeding with any more "business" activity.
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