The Basic Math Of Amway?

 It is my observation that people who join Amway usually end up losing money in the end. They may get involved to make a few bucks or because they are mistakenly led to believe that they will become millionaires in Amway in 2-5 years. I know my sponsor convinced me that we would be millionaires in a few years. These folks who recruit new IBOs into Amway are often associated with a "system" such as Worldwide Dreambuilders (WWDB)or Network 21 (N21). These system promoters, often diamonds, may mislead the recruits by showing them pictures of mansions or other luxuries, implying that they attained these goods with their Amway business. In many cases, it is a deception, especially when we know for a fact that some diamond leaders who proclaimed that they only make cash purchases, had their homes foreclosed. Without the hype, I am sure there would be fewer sign ups. But what is the evidence?

It is simple. Amway reports that the average active IBO earns about $200 a month in gross income. This average includes diamonds and other higher end IBOs. I believe if you calculated the median, the average would be much lower.

But what makes IBOs operate at a loss is the system expenses. The system generally consists of voicemail, standing orders, cds, functions, books and other materials. An average business building IBO might spend an average of $250+ a month or so on these expenses. Amway defenders like to decry the amount, but there are couples who would likely spend more and IBOs who must travel by air to functions would spend more. Single IBOs who buy only the minimum might spend a bit less. Some IBOs with abusive uplines might spend much much more than $250 a month on tools. I believe my former sponsor spent easily an average of $1000 a month on average. (I am from Hawaii so the average cost of functions is greater due to long distance travel)

Thus if the average IBO earns $200 a month but the same average IBO spends $250 a month on tools, the average active IBO is losing $50+ a month, with lower level IBOs (i.e. 100 PV) would lose more.

Look at a group of 100 IBOs at 100 PV. (This is just a model). If a 100 business building IBOs average $250 a month on tools, they as a group would expend $25,000 a month on tools and functions. Their volume would be 10,000 PV, or about 30,000 BV. This would generate about $7500 in bonuses per month. Thus this group spent $25,000 to learn and be motivated while the group splits up $7500 a month in bonuses. The platinum would get the lion's share of the bonus but most of the rest of the group will suffer net losses. As the group grows, the bonus may grow, but so will their expenditures on tools. Keep in mind that a group of 100 IBOs spitting up $7500 would be an average of $75 each. It is the diamonds that drive up that average. The math bears it out.

The only way the group can make money as a whole is to avoid participation in the tools altogether and to actually sell products to non IBO customers. The evidence is right here with simple math. The systems do not work because the cost of the system is likely to consume all of the Amway generated bonuses and more. I gladly challenge anyone to explain in detail how this post is not reflective of the reality of being in Amway and a system such as WWDB or Network21.

The facts speak for themselves.

Opposing Views?

One of the things I find curious and humorous at the same time is how people who defend Amway often will not allow opposing viewpoints on their Amway propaganda blogs and forums. They will post an article and allow no comments or will not allow comments unless they are positive and paint a rosy picture about Amway. Amway's biggest defender IBOFightback, banned me from his truth about amway blog recently for no reason. In fact, I posted only a handful of comments there in years and the comments were truthful and not attacks, yet he felt my presence needed to be excluded from his blog perhaps because the truth itself is negative about Amway. I suppose though, that David Steadson's (IBOFB) lack of credibility (in my book) makes the banning a minor issue. His website is filled with pro Amway folks who back up Amway, even bad practices at times. I guess when you see the world through rose-colored glasses. you don't see the reality.

I also had an exchange not too long ago with an IBO via email. He also runs a pro Amway blog but hasn't been active recently. He doesn't allow comments on his blog unless they praise Amway. I just don't understand why the need to put spin on the truth. It is a fact that the average Amway IBO earns very little and that most IBOs make little or nothing. Many who participate in the training sessions end up losing money. Those are tidbits that match up with my experience. It is usually former IBOs who can verify this claim. Seems that current IBOs do not admit they are losing money. As an IBO, I was taught "fake it till you make it". That suggests that you appear successful until you actually go diamond or whatever. In the end, a pig with lipstick on it is still a pig.

Joecool allows opposing views on this blog. Even some comments that are critical of me are allowed. I even had some (I presume) IBOs who left threats on this blog. I suspect that one or some of them also sent me threats via email. Still, I allow most comments on here. I do not allow racist or extremely hateful comments, or comments with spam. I have nothing to hide when it comes to my views on Amway. So what do Amway apologists and IBOs have to hide? Would it be damaging to have the truth on your blog or forum? Is the internet already inundated with negative Amway information and comments?

I believe Amway is partly to blame. The AMO's (Amway Motivational Organizations) such as Network 21, WWDB or BWW are the ones who say and do unethical things. Amway is the only entity who can take action against these groups, but it appears that substantial action is lacking and therefore, these groups continue to teach bad business practices which filter down to many IBOs and contributes to Amway having a bad reputation. I guess Amway is sleeping in the bed they made. Until some bad practices are stopped or corrected, there will continue to be people who had a bad experience in Amway. It is what it is. Amway started an accreditation program to curb abuse, but that practice appears of the surface to be a paper tiger (no teeth).

Fake It But Don't Make It?

 One of the things I was taught as an IBO was to "fake it til you make it". I believe this is probably still true today, based on my interaction with and observation of IBO behavior. If you have followed the trials on various upline leaders such as Shores or Duncan and their financials, you can likely conclude that even the diamonds can be in financial difficulty. Some former diamonds who have left the business or quit have also expressed some similar sentiments.  And if you think about it, why would any diamond leave the business if you can walk away and collect residual income?  You probably already know the answer to this question.

But if you examine functions like "Dream Night", where the diamonds show off pictures of mansions, sports cars, boats and jetskis, you can conclude that the diamonds are implying that all of these goodies are a part of their regular lifestyles, including the notion of waking up at noon and never having to work. I believe for most diamonds, this is just a facade, or an exercise in deception of the downline. I recall the diamonds urging the crowd to "come join us". Some IBOs want it so bad that tears roll down their cheeks as they watch the presentation. They honestly believe that 2-5 years working the system assures them of success.

The sad reality is that most IBOs, even with much effort and hard work, will end up making nothing, or if fully engaged in the system of functions and cds and books, will end up with a net loss. IBOs who stick around for a few years might see losses in the thousands or tens of thousands. All the while their upline may have been telling the group the perseverance is the key or that you will "make it" if you don't quit. Nothing could be further from the truth. There's no evidence that working hard and never quitting will result in anything but financial losses.

If diamonds and high pins are putting on a show, what about the average rank and file IBOs? I believe that many of them are also fakes. They may wear suits and talk about success but ask one of them if they actually make a net profit and you'll get more excuses than answers. The typical answer will be that it's none of your business, or that their results are not indicative of yours because it depends on effort. This is just a diversion. If someone is promoting the opportunity and then flaunting a lifestyle that can allegedly be attained through the opportunity, then the folks making the claim should be able to qualify their claims. It is normal in everyday business for potential business partners or investors to seek evidence or proof that the business produces what is being advertised. Why Amwayers believe otherwise is puzzling, but not surprising. I believe it is because many Amwayers are fakes, starting from the top.

An Amway Observation?

 http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=192279&page=8

It's refreshing to see so many good people on this forum telling the truth about Amway. It looks like the pro-Amway shills here and on other sites are becoming increasingly outnumbered and desperate. I've read through this entire thread and think it is hilarious how many times the shill has to move the goal-posts or play word games to make Amway look like an amazing business opportunity.

I was originally introduced to Amway many years ago in my late teens by an uncle of mine. I attended a few of their seminars, and was impressed at first. But the whole thing started to seem ridiculous and unrealistic and so I didn't get involved any further. Also, I'm not that materialistic, so Amway's message doesn't appeal to me. I wish my uncle had been more skeptical.

My uncle was very devoted to Amway for a few years. He bought all their products(especially the tapes and books), tried to get others to buy them, and also tried to recruit all his family and friends into his new religion. He eventually lost money and friends and alienated himself from much of his family.

Already heavily in debt, he eventually fell for another, even bigger get-rich-quick scam shortly after quitting Amway(to Amway's credit, they don't threaten to kill anyone for leaving Amway). This one robbed him of his entire life savings. The scammers got away with it because they knew how to play him right(he met one of them through Amway). His wife divorced him soon after.

As if this wasn't enough, after making a modest financial recovery with his business over the course of several years, he loses it all to yet another scam. He had to borrow heavily from the few friends he had left since no bank would ever give him a loan, and almost no one in the family has anything to do with him anymore. I haven't seen him for 15 years.

One thing I wonder about my uncle is if all those seminars and inspirational tapes and books softened him up to fall for all those other scams he fell for after quitting Amway(he didn't have a reputation for being gullible before joining Amway, though he was never that bright to begin with). If I remember correctly, he tended to blame himself for failing at Amway, and may have never understood that it was a big scam or at least not a good business opportunity.

I still remember those crazy seminars and how they told everyone that joining the Amway cult will likely lead to yachts, exotic vacations surrounded by hot bikini babes, and shiny expensive cars, among other symbols of wealth. Everyone is told at the seminars and in the "tools" that they have all this unfulfilled potential, but to realize this potential we must avoid those small-minded "dream killers"(skeptical family members and friends).

The story about my stupid uncle is true. There are many other people out there just like him who have fallen for Amway and others MLMs. The few people I've met who claimed they were very successful at Amway usually seemed sleazy or I would find out years later they were up to their eyeballs in debt.

The person who said before that the people who regularly attend these seminars are mostly fools and misfits was spot on.

The Con Game?

 Great Thread posted at scam.com:

http://www.scam.com/showthread.php?t=142975

It is stunning to realize the enormity of this con. Multi-million and billion dollar companies, stock exchange listed companies, companies that put on the facade of being a good corporate neighbor and innocent "business" (cough) next door.

Nework marketing is a flawed and unsustainable business model that effectively is fed and supported by those on the bottom. Those on the bottom work a job to fund their product purchases. Those spoils of war then are divided up by the upline and sponsor company. Those on the bottom, who use funds from their jobs (rather than product sales) to sustain the "business", are an ever expanding rotating door of new recruits.

Although the products may be of high quality and slickly packaged, and give the impression that you are a marketeer of these sundry goods...the reality is much different. You are required to buy monthly quotas for personal use and recruit your ass off to gain entry into the promised land. The product you are really selling is a dubious "business opportunity"...your real market is "opportunity seekers".

A real business markets and sell goods and services. They are sustained by real retail sales. They order only what they know they can sell. From what I see all these mlms push recruiting as the ticket to the good life. Products and retailing mean nothing.

Another major difference is a real business owner holds title to his business...something he can sell. In mlm, you own nothing but your small product inventory.

The nature of this false and flawed business model will always have in its wake a vast turnover at the bottom of the pyramid structure. It's the nature of the beast and can be no other way, all math aside. The many "losers and the quitters" and dreamers who hang in there waiting for their ship to come in are those who support the top and sponsor company. There will always be a relentless drive to recruit at the bottom as it has nothing to do with true product retailing to support the business but finding and recruiting opportunity seekers. The emphasis is always on finding new recruits rather than selling product. And indeed, many of these mlm businesses put restrictions on the associate's ability to retail the product...which subtly strengthens its true goal of recruiting as the primary revenue stream...not product sales.

These "businesses" (cough again) are predatory and prey on the many by appealing to dreams of luxury and a life of ease, especially those with troubles in their life. The start money is low to get into the "business", which is unlike a real business that takes more sizable seed money, some knowledge and guidance and a real business plan.

Those few that actually make sizable incomes from these schemes must live with the knowledge that their life is supported by the broken dreams, efforts and losses of those on the bottom. They conveniently set aside any feelings of culpability after stepping on the bodies of their fellow man so they can proclaim that they worked hard and made it.

There simply is no parallel between a network marketing model as a "business" and how a "normal?" business really works. I understand this because I own a real business that retails real product.

Network marketing is simply the greatest con game of all time. They should all be shut down.

8-12 Hours Per Week To Prosperity?

 One of the myths that my Amway upline used to, and likely still perpetuate is the claim that you can build an Amway mega empire on 8-12 hours of effort per week. I'm venturing an educated guess that this number is used because while it still represents time, it is probably less hours than working a part time job. But let's take a closer look at this 8-12 hours per week.  (Some groups might teach 10-15 hours per week, etc.)

If you listen to one (1) cd/audio per day as recommended by upline and read one of their "success" books 15 minutes each day, you are already close to nine to ten hours of activity used per week and neither of these activities produces any income for your Amway business. In fact, both activities cost you money and produce no tangible result or income.  Upline says you are getting better and "educating" yourself, but how much education do you need to buy stuff, sell stuff and recruit downline?   If you spend another 15 minutes a day contacting people, you are close to 12 hours per week. Where will you find additional time to show the plan and to expand your name and contact list? What about servicing retail customers, at least for IBOs who actually may have some customers. 

What about attending meetings and functions? These are also non income producing activities. It's no wonder the vast majority of IBOs don't make money. Their upline has them running around participating in activities that produce no income for their businesses. Ironically, these non-income producing activities such as listening to a cd/audio, produces a lot of income for certain uplines who produce and sell them. To me, it is just an elaborate game of bait and switch played by upline. They tell you that their system is foolproof and that you will make it if you don't give up. Not true.  All these activities accomplish (listening to audios, reading books and attending meetings and functions) is to provide upline with a stable and sizable regular income.  Many people don't know this, but a diamond may have a small monthly income, possibly $5000 a month.  Of course, it depends on business structure, etc.  But the average run of the mill, non Q12 diamond (the vast majority) probably makes a small monthly income and the rest of that $100 to $150K they speak of comes in the form of annual bonuses.  

But diamonds sell the prospect the dream of financial freedom. You tell the IBOs that Amway is their best chance. You tell them that you can help them and that the tools of the business (standing order, voicemail, books, functions) are the key to their success. Those who are serious enough to commit to the system likely won't quit without making some effort and will allow uplines to earn some nice profits before these downline eventually realize they aren't profitable and quit. Because many IBOs are sponsored by family and friends, you don't see too many formal complaints about the business. Most people chalk it up as a life lesson and do not complain.  

But IBOs and information seekers, do not be fooled into thinking that you will create a financial empire by working 8-12 hours a week. That would be far-fetched, almost too good to be true.  If that's not a get rich quick scheme, what is?  The number of highly successful Amway IBOs versus the number who sign up are likely fewer than lottery winners.

Are Diamonds Just Middle Class People?

 I recently read an article on what constitutes wealth. Some say an annual income of $100,000 would make them wealthy, some say assets exceeding $4 million would do it, and some estimated that $2 million would make them "rich". Of course, everything is relative and someone earning $25,000 a year would think that $100,000 a year is wealth, etc. College students might think $40,000 a year is awesome because many have little money to begin with. I'm sure someone like Bill Gates would not consider $4 million to be astonishing. It's all relative. If you are content with what you have, you are likely relatively well off already.

But let's talk about Amway diamonds. I say diamond because it is basically the pinnacle of success in Amway. It is the crowning achievement of the 6-4-2 plan (or other variations) that many groups show. The average diamond earns more than $200,000, according to Amway. Now $200,000 sounds like a lot of money to young people or to those with lower wage types of jobs, or those who are just starting out in their careers. But we also know that diamonds earn income from the sale of tools. Some groups advertise (verbally) that someone might earn $100,000 a year from the tools and honorariums (speaking income).

Let's be generous and say the diamond earns $300,000+ a year from Amway and tools income. Income tax and medical insurance for the family will eat up about 40% of that right off the top, leaving about $180,000. Fantastic you might say? Well, a diamond certainly would live in a million dollar mansion, which would give you about a $6000 a month mortgage (So much for buying homes in cash) or $72,000 a year, leaving $108,000. Fantastic right? Well, diamonds are constantly traveling to various functions, flying first class and staying only at 5 star hotels right? So an average of 1 trip per month with a family, first class and a 5 star hotel would probably cost about $5000 or more per trip, or about $60,000 a year, now leaving $68,000 for this diamond's yearly budget. A good diamond with a family surely consumes 300 PV per month for household goods, or about $900 a month or about $11,000 a year, leaving $57,000 for the rest of the year. A good diamond is often a Christian who would faithfully tithe 10% of his income, or about $30,000 a year, leaving the diamond with $27,000 a year, or about $2250 a month to pay for their monthly electric and utility bills, gas, car payments, meals and entertainment.

Yes, some expenses may be slightly higher or lower, but what I am trying to illustrate is that even an above average diamond with tools income is more likely to be broke than wealthy if they live the lifestyles portrayed at functions such as dream night or other major functions. Do the math. It is unlikely that diamonds pay cash for everything and it is unlikely that fabulous lifestyles can be sustained on a diamond income. There is plenty of evidence out there. Diamond's homes foreclosed, diamonds behind on income taxes, a prominent triple diamond formerly in chapter 7 bankruptcy proceeding, many diamonds selling off their homes in a bad real estate market.

I truly believe that it is quite possible for many diamonds to be broke. Many people live in debt these days. Are diamonds any different, even with more income? The math says diamonds are just like anyone else.