Joecool Headed For Seattle?

 I'll be out of town for about a week.  I'm going to Seattle this weekend to attend a certain football game.  All at my own expense, no Amway residual income.  LOL.  I'll be back posting early next week.  

In the meantime, I have this blog post called "Is Amway A Scam"?

The short answer is no. Amway the company is not considered a scam.  However, IBOs powered by Amway and/or leaders from groups connected to Amway such as WWDB, BWW, or Network 21 can end up scamming people by using the Amway opportunity as a front. They'll promote Amway as a way to earn a lifestyle of the rich and famous. They may promote Amway as a means to earn lifelong financial security. The catch will always be that you need to follow their system.  The system has been referred to as a scam by many over the years as it is often the reason why 

The system normally consists of cds, voicemail, standing orders, books, functions and seminars. Some of this technology is outdated, but likely has not changed in many years because uplines profit from the sale of these "tools". It's basically a bait and switch. They lure you in with the hopes and dreams of a fabulous life and uncountable amounts of cash rolling in. They then sell you the secrets of gaining these trappings. Sadly, only a tiny fraction of 1% will ever see any kind of significant success. And out of those who do enjoy some significant success, many of these people find out that Amway success may not be sustainable.

The truly horrifying result of all this is that probably 99% or more people who have dreams of a better life and financial security will actually end up with a net loss of money and time that they could have used more productively. In my IBO days, I saw some crossline lose their homes or enter bankruptcy following the advice of their trusted upline mentors. It almost always had something to do with skipping out on financial obligations in order to buy more tools or to attend a major function. The secrets of a diamond lifestyle is apparently to sell standing orders, functions, voicemail, but not necessarily selling Amway products, at least for the higher ups.  

If you look at the earnings of platinums and diamonds, you will easily see that those kinds of incomes cannot sustain million dollar lifestyles, especially when you factor in business expenses such as traveling (first class?) and hotel stays. If diamonds fly first class everywhere they go, that's a lot of cash to run their businesses.

So, is Amway a scam? No, Amway the company is not a scam, but Amway IBOs and Amway IBO leaders who run functions can certainly scam you. Beware!

 

Most Do Nothing?

 I saw some recent discussion and some people were debating the average income of Amway IBOs and how $202 a month (average IBO income) as reported by Amway is a lot considering most IBOs do little or nothing. Well, that $202 a month average income survey many years old. Somewhat laughable when Amway defenders like to hang their hats on the possibility that Amway critics claims are outdated. Maybe Amway defenders should complain that Amway's own information is old and outdated. I wonder what updated numbers would reveal?  An even smaller average income?   

Also, what many people are not aware of is that the average income figure as published by Amway, excluded IBOs who did nothing. It only counted "active" IBOs, although Amway's definition of active can leave you scratching your head. Amway describes active as someone who attended a meeting or attempted to sell products. However, we know that unless you actually sell something, you won't make anything and certainly attending a meeting takes money away from you, and is not a way to earn money in Amway. Let me also add that Amway diamonds are also a part of the average income so the "average" is very likely inflated by the six-figure income of the diamonds.

To me, the biggest question is why do so many IBOs get interested enough to sign up and then do nothing? It is my informed opinion that there are several reasons why this happens. I believe that some IBOs are such pests, that their prospects sign up just to get their IBO sponsor to leave them alone. While it may not be common, I believe it happens. Also, I believe some IBOs go into shock when they see the prices of some products. This will cause newbies to realize that the business is nearly impossible before they even get started. Or, a new IBO will go and talk to family and friends about Amway and will get shot down because in North America, just about everyone seemingly had, or knows someone who's had a bad experience in Amway. Sadly, the experience may not be a result of Amway the corporation, but of unethical IBOs who may lie, cheat or trick people into attending meetings. Some IBOs actually get started but soon realize that that Amway opportunity along with the systems such as N21, WWDB or BWW, simply becomes a money pit with the tools and system expenses exceed the monthly Amway income. A few IBOs will bite hard and stay dedicated for a few years or more. Many of these IBOs end up reporting losses that may exceed tens of thousands of dollars.

Sadly, many IBOs and prospects are recruited by family and friends. Thus, even if they quit or have a very bad experience, they just quit and disappear. Folks generally will not file complaints with Amway or the Better Business Bureau (BBB). So IBOs, even if you did little or nothing in Amway, if you got ripped off or treated unethically, you may want to consider filing a formal complaint with Amway or with the BBB. So why do so many IBOs do little or nothing? I believe the answer is crystal clear. Most IBOs do little or nothing because it's not worth the effort for most as very few IBOs will ever attain any kind of significant income. In fact, doing nothing is likely to get you a more favorable result than someone who attends the functions or who subscribes to standing order because doing nothing is cheaper than being an IBO and paying for tools and functions.

The Real Scam?

 A lot of people come and go in Amway, but many of those who come and go don't even notice the scam. They get sold on what they believe is a business opportunity that they can makesome money at, or at the very least save some money on products that they would normally buy anyway. If they do it right, they can possibly make some "real" money and with some had work, you can build it right and have the option one day of walking away from Amway and living off ongoing residual income from Amway. It sounds reasonable and therein lies the scam.

For years, I have challenged people to name 2-3 people, aside from the Amway owners, who joined, built the business "right" and was able to walk away and retire with ongoing residual income, enough to be financially free forever. Not a single person has been able to name and confirm that even a single person has done this. I believe it's all a lie and part of the scam. Amway's distributor force turns over about 50% each year. How can you build a residual income empire when half of your downline quits each year? I believe Amway diamonds trade their 9-5 jobs for the night shift. They work at night and into the morning hours because they are working to replace people who quit and to support downline platinums who might struggle or fail to re-qualify for that level. If upline says they are working for the love of their downline, I call BS on that. If walking away and enjoying life was an option, why hasn't anyone chosen it?

Now you could argue that a diamond's "work" isn't that bad and they aren't reporting to a boss. And that would be true, but I imagine the pressure of churning people in and out to keep qualifying can be stressful in itself. If you live on an island like me, you can eventually have trouble finding new people to work with. In 1997 or so, there were a bunch of diamonds in Hawaii and they all moved to the mainland. Now I"m not sure why but my upline diamond was Harimoto, who loved the ocean and the beaches. Yet he moved to Washington state. I believe they needed new grounds to mine, just like gold miners.

The next part of the scam is how IBOs will tell you about Amway's generous money back guarantee. 100% they'll tell you. What they don't tell you is that the guarantee is only on some of the products and the sign up fee. The cds, books, voicemail and functions are not sold or run by Amway. And these expenses can be very significnt over a period of time. IBOs and prospects need to know this. You can lose thousands and get back pennies on the dollar asking for a refund on the sign up fee and perhaps a few products. Another piece of the scam.

Also, IBOs and prospects are often shown only the very best case scenario (such as going diamond) but not told that your chance of being struck by lightning is much higher than your chance of going diamond, even though going diamond is not a random event. A real life and likely scenario is getting in and trying hard for a while, and then quitting with some business losses. At least if you know this and still try anyway, you will have done so with full disclosure.

Lastly, it's insidious in my opinion, for upline to tell you to trust them and to do as they say, and then turn around and tell IBOs that failure is their responsibility. That they didn't work hard enough or do thing just right. That sure isn't what they are preaching when recruiting you into the business. They are saying how sharp you are and how you're likely to tear up the business. But it's just another facet of the scam. I've outlined the parts of the opportunity that I believe are scams, but I'm sure it's not limited to my point of view.

Good luck if you read this and join anyway.

Amway Creates Millionaires?

 I keep hearing from some IBOs that they belive that Amway has created more millionaires than any other company in the US. I call BS on that claim. I am not saying that Amway hasn't created any millionaires, obviously, the Amway owners are worth billions of dollars. But what the IBOs are apparently implying is that the diamonds are millionaires. I'm sure there are some diamonds who indeed are millionires, especially if they are tenured diamonds, in particular the double diamonds and higher. But conversely, I believe that many high level diamonds are not millionaires. I believe it is just as common for a diamond to be in debt as it is for a diamond to be living large. I also believe that many diamonds did not accumulate their alleged wealth exclusively from Amway.

The reason why this is an issue is because these big pins will stand on stage and show off excessive wealth and imply that it is their Amway income that pays for these mansions, sports cars, and in some cases, jets. In the US, I attended a function called "Dream Nite" where these kinds of trapping are displayed, to the tune of the song "I wanna be rich". The diamonds would say that you can have what they have, if only you will do what they advise. These functions still go on today and I believe it is now called Winter Conference.

Stanley and Danko's book, "The Millionaire Next Door"
http://www.personalfinanceplaybook.com/2009/08/the-millionaire-next-door/

This book makes some very interesting points which I believe applies to Amway diamonds. I will outline the significant ones and I will comment below:

**Predictably, the data shows that most people who you believe to be very rich are not.

**High net worth individuals, statistically, tend to be people that live within their means. They don’t spend a lot of money. They don’t waste money. They tend to be pretty frugal people.

**The authors point out that most of the richest people you know aren’t driving expensive luxury automobiles. That’s what the people who want everyone to think they’re rich drive.

Joe's commentary. The book does say that about 1/3 of millionaires acquired their wealth thru a J-O-B, plus they saved and invested.  They did mention that many millionaires were also business owners, such as a pest control company, etc. But based on the points made by the book above, I can see where it is likely that diamonds portray a wealthy lifestyle as a recruitment tactic, when the reality is they may be living very middle class lifestyles off stage, or may even be in debt. I have seen evidence of diamonds having their homes foreclosed and being in debt (Ruth Carter's book: Amway: Behind the Smoke and Mirrors).  Around 2009 or 2010, there was also a report that a prominent WWDB Triple Diamond filed for chapter 7 bankruptcy. The report indicated that he could not make his mortgages, or something to that tune. Odd, because when I was in WWDB, some of the upline leaders said diamonds paid cash for everything because paying interest to the bank wasn't very smart.  So much for the truth and integrity of upline leaders.

My question is why IBOs continue to make up these claims? Try googling millionaire or Amway millionaire. There is nothing to indicate that Amway was responsible for creating the "most millionaires" of any US company. If this were true, wouldn't Amway state it on their website? If someone finds any veracity about this claim, inform me and I will post it.  More likely tech giants like Microsoft or Nvidia created the most millionaires.   If not, they certainly created more millionaires than Amway.  Not to mention income from tools and functions are a significant portion of a diamond's income and tools and functions are not Amway.  Food for thought. 

Lying To Succeed?

 The first time I was prospected for Amway, I was in college. I actually didn't know much about Amway but I had somehow formed a negative opinion of it. Needless to say, when I was invited to a beer bust and it turned instead to be an Amway meeting, my impression of Amway wasn't that good. Some years later, I eventually did join because a close friend of mine had achieved direct distributor (now called platinum) and he had assured me that it could be done and that he would make sure that I would also achieve it. I did achieve a level just below platinum (4000 PV), but I quit for several reasons. First of all, I didn't make a net profit as the expenses for tools ate up my profits. Secondly, the more I progressed in the business, the more and more my upline wanted control of my life. For example, we were told that we should check upline before getting married, buying a car, or even having children, etc. I thought that was very strange and I eventually left the business for good.

But in the US at least, I believe Amway's name to be so battered that an IBO cannot sponsor downline and build a business without lies and deception. There are hordes of stories confirming testimony that lies and deceit are common in prospecting potential IBOs. This was extremely rampant when Amway changed their name to Quixtar. IBOs would deny the connection or IBOs would say they are with network 21 or WWDB and claim something ridiculous such as Amway simply being their supplier. The promotion of perfect water also brought on silly antics about a $50 case of water being capable of performing miracles. If the opportunity could stand on its own merits, then IBOs would not have to resort to such desperate measures which include lies and deception.

Even the Amway presentation if often filled with deception and lies. I remember seeing the presentation and they said shopping through Amway, an IBO would save 30% over local retailers. When I actually saw the catalogs, I wondered where are the savings?? An open-minded price comparison will easily show that Amway products are not cheaper than a retailer like WalMart. It's not possible when you consider that Amway's bonuses must be a part of their product price.

The 6-4-2 plan or similar variations are made to sound easy, and the presenter talked about lifelong residual willable income, which I also find to be deceptive if not an outright lie. The presenter never mentions that only about 1 in 400 ever reach the platinum level, where allegedly you begin to break even as an IBO if you are consuming training and tools.

But can Amway be successfully promoted without lies and deception? It is my opinion that an IBO has no chance of building a business by being completely upfront and honest about Amway and about being an IBO. Even with lies and deceit, many IBOs still cannot get people to see the plan or to buy products. It is my opinion that overall, very little Amway products are sold to non IBOs. So if you cannot sell products and you cannot get people to see the plan, you cannot build a business and if you are purchasing tools, you are simply digging yourself a financial hole that will only grow larger as time passes. The cost of 100 PV (about $300) is already more than what most families and/or singles spend in a month on household products. This means that most people simply cannot sustain themselves in the business and it explains why most IBOs drop out in the first year.

It is why lies and/or deception are needed for an IBO to have a chance at promoting and building an Amway business. Because the truth is not pretty and more than likely, will not work for building an Amway business.

Your Best Interest?

 Part of what Joecool perceives as the problem with the Amway opportunity is the utter lack of accountability of some upline leaders. They may tell you to trust them, to submit to them and simply copy or duplicate what they have done, and they imply that you will get the same results. Possibly millions of downlines over the years have put in blood sweat and tears into the business only to suffer massive losses following the system. Upline will take credit for meager success but place the blame on the downline when success is not there. Upline will claim that they either did not try hard enough, were not teachable enough, or they didn't put in enough time and effort. Despite a shockingly low success rate of system IBOs, nobody seems to fault the system as being flawed. And nobody seems to question whether upline is at fault. I believe it's obvious that the system and the upline advice is severely flawed.

In my observations, I would say that many financial systems are similar. Whether it be BWW, N21, WWDB, real estate gurus or other systems, the success rate is extremely low. Many systems that advertise on television will have a disclaimer that a success testimony is a rare or unique experience. I believe it is similar to the systems in Amway. Dedication or continued spending on the system is not the problem. The problem is often the system itself. It can work for some exceptional people. These people were likely to succeed in other venues anyway. The problem is that is does not work for the majority of people. People who succeed in Amway likely succeed in spite of the system and not because of it.

The bigger problem is that for many years, some uplines have lived high on the hog off of the dedicated tool purchases of their downline. All the while, questionable or bad advice was given to the faithful downline. Advice such as quitting a job to attend a function, skipping financial obligations such as the rent or electric bills to buy more tools. One upline even said your family can skip a meal because the standing order may contain the one thing you needed to hear to make your business grow. I have personally seen couples lose their homes and go bankrupt because they followed upline advice. Upline to "has their best interest at heart". Granted, the couple has some culpability in these decisions, but uplines who give this advice seem to get a pass.

Where is the accountability? Some of these uplines who give and gave bad advice, are still active today, and some are still giving bad advice to their downlines. Advice that profits upline and drains downline. Even with valid complaints, it appears that many uplines avoid any accountability. For some, perhaps there is poetic justice, such as diamonds having their homes foreclosed. But as many uplines have nobody to hold them accountable, do you really want to do business with these folks? Would you invest your retirement money with a broker who could not be held accountable? Would you have your car repaired by a shop whose mechanics could not be held accountable? I believe the answer is not to these questions, yet many people are asked to trust and follow the advice of an upline who is not held accountable for their advice.

The system is credited for the few successes that are visible, but the individual is held accountable for any shortcomings or failures. IBOs, I encourage you to hold your upline leaders accountable for the advice they give you. If they won't answer tough questions or take responsibility, then one should wonder why the upline should be given your trust.

Amway Failure?

Part of what Joecool perceives as the problem with the Amway opportunity is the utter lack of accountability of some upline leaders. They may tell you to trust them, to submit to them and simply copy or duplicate what they have done, and they imply that you will get the same results. Possibly millions of downlines over the years have put in blood sweat and tears into the business only to suffer massive losses following the system. Upline will take credit for meager success, but place the blame on the downline when success is not there. Upline will claim that they either did not try hard enough, were not teachable enough, or they didn't put in enough time and effort. Despite a shockingly low success rate of system IBOs, nobody seems to fault the system as being flawed. And nobody seems to question whether upline is at fault. I believe it's obvious that the system and the upline advice is severely flawed.

In my observations, I would say that many financial systems are similar. Whether it be BWW, N21, WWDB, real estate gurus or other systems, the success rate is extremely low. Many systems that advertise on television will have a disclaimer that a success testimony is a rare or unique experience. I believe it is similar to the systems in Amway. Dedication or continued spending on the system is not the problem. The problem is often the system itself. It can work for some exceptional people. These people were likely to succeed in other venues anyway. The problem is that is does not work for the majority of people. People who succeed in Amway likely succeed in spite of the system and not because of it.

The bigger problem, is that for many many years, some uplines have lived high on the hog off of the dedicated tool purchases of their downline. All the while, quesitonable or bad advice was given to the faithful downline. Advice such as quitting a job to attend a function, skipping financial obligations such as the rent or electric bills to buy more tools. One upline even said your family can skip a meal because the standing order may contain the one thing you needed to hear to make your business grow. I have personally seen couples lose their homes and go bankrupt because they followed upline advice. Upline to "has their best interest at heart". Granted, the couple has some culpability in these decisions, but uplines who give this advice seem to get a pass.

Where is the accountability? Some of these uplines who give and gave bad advice, are still active today, and some are still giving bad advice to their downlines. Advice that profits upline and drains downline. Even with valid complaints, it appears that many uplines avoid any accountability. For some, perhaps there is poetic justice, such as diamonds having their homes foreclosed. But as many uplines have nobody to hold them accountable, do you really want to do business with these folks? Would you invest your retirement money with a broker who could not be held accountable? Would you have your car repaired by a shop whose mechanics could not be held accountable? I believe the answer is not to these questions, yet many people are asked to trust and follow the advice of an upline who is not held accountable for their advice.

The system is credited for the few successes that are visible, but the individual is held accountable for any shortcomings or failures. IBOs, I encourage you to hold your upline leaders accountable for the advice they give you. If they won't answer tough questions or take responsibility, then one should wonder why the upline should be given your trust.