Tuesday, August 30, 2011

Upline Hypocrites?

Now that the internet is so accessible, information flows freely and some of the dark secrets of the Lines Of Sponsorship have been exposed. Also, as times passes, it is becoming clear that a bunch of upline leaders are major hypocrites, apparently motivated by greed and personal gain. I believe this trend will continue as well. It appears that these same leaders have managed to get around Amway's accreditation guidelines, which appears to be toothless.

Many upline leaders appeal to their audience by talking about how the Amway business can save marriages. I remember sitting in an audience when some diamonds spoke about how couples who build the business have a less than 2% divorce rate as compared to the national figure of 50% or so. One major reason cited was the financial stress that J-O-B people had (not enough cash). But now we see some upline diamond leaders getting divorced and in some cases, no explanation is offered, as if the missing spouse was beamed up by aliens. Many leaders simply revise history or deny that certain events happened. Some leaders just pretend nothing happened and it seems like IBOs are very forgiving, thus no real accountability has ever been applied to upline leaders.

People also found that some diamonds make a lot of money from tools. When I was an IBO, we were told very clearly, that nobody made profits from tools. That profits went back into the functions to make them better and cheaper. (Has any function gotten cheaper in the last 12 years?) In fact, when I was an IBO, I was told that WWDB was a non-profit entity, which was a bold lie. I will admit that upline later changed their story to WWDB was a for profit company, but nobody kept profits, thus the channeling money to make events better and cheaper. Agsin, when have events ever been cheaper. Now I don't think that events should be run pro bono, but the leaders should be transparent about it rather than the lies and shroud of secrecy that often accompanies talk about tools and tool income.

Some upline leaders also spoke of how utterly stupid it was to take out a loan as the banks make so much money off the interest. We now see some of these very leaders having their homes foreclosed! Some of these diamonds were the very ones who said their pay cash for everything, including their homes and cars. It is not in the hopes for these folks to suffer, but it is exposing the lies and deception that leaders used to entice IBOs to join and to purachse tools that were supposed to help IBOs to attain the same lifestyle as the diamonds. However, rather that more diamonds, I believe WWDB and some other LOSs, at least in the US, have fewer diamonds now than 15 years ago. Where's the evidence of success?

What's even more amazing is how the hypocrisy of some of these leaders are exposed to downline and the downline simply ignores it and continues to follow blindly without an explantion or questioning the leaders after the incidents are exposed.

IBOs should ask their leaders questions when these kinds of issues arise. And you should think twice if the answer you receive is silence or deflections.

Monday, August 29, 2011

Amway - Double X Vitamins

A review of Amway's flagship vitamin - double x:


Nutrilite Double X is a multivitamin that contains a wide variety of vitamins, minerals and phytonutrients per serving. If you have not heard of Nutrilite, according to its researchers, it is one of the world’s leading brand of dietary supplements. My review on Double X is based on taste, price, energy level, vitamins and minerals, and health benefits.

Nutrilite Double X – Retail Price: $29.95 (10-day supply) $74.75 (31-day supply)
Size: 60 tablets (10-day supply), 186 tablets (31-day supply)
Taste: 6/10
Price: 7/10
Energy Level: 7/10
Vitamins & Minerals: 9/10
Health Benefits: 7/10

According to Amway/Quixtar IBOs, Double X is one of the best multivitamins on the market because it contains more plant concentrates than the leading brands of multivitamin. Is this why Double X is more expensive than the leading brands of multivitamin? Or is this just a marketing trick to encourage you to buy it? At the price of about $75.00 it is expensive, but when you break it down the cost is about $2.50 per day. From this point of view, it is a decent bargain but it would of been an even better bargain if all of its vitamins were high quality, and extracted from better or natural sources. How do I know some of its vitamins are low quality? Please read the whole review and you will find out. Like most multivitamins, it does not taste sweet like candy cane. Instead, it has a light-bitter herbal-like flavor, just swallow it whole and you should be fine.

Double X is a supplement that I can usually take without any problem because I do not experience major bad side effects. I took Double X regularly for a week, than stopped taking it for a few days and felt a noticeable change in energy. I usually take this supplement on a semi or full stomach to avoid the minor side effects. Taking this supplement on an empty stomach gives me a minor upset stomach and makes me feel lightheaded. The feeling usually lasts for about 30 minutes.

I do not recommend taking more than two servings of Double X per day, because you may end up consuming too much vitamins and minerals which can be toxic in the long-run, especially if they are not created properly.

Is Double X all natural?

The video at the bottom of this page claimed that Double X has more plant concentrates than three of the top multivitamins combined: Advance Formula Centrum, One-A-Day, and Pharmanex Life Essentials. Double X may have more plant concentrates but many of its vitamins and minerals are synthetic. This was a little shocking because according to the video Nutrilite grows, harvests and processes plants for its vitamins on its own certified organic farms. Some of the synthetic vitamins in Double X are vitamin A, C, E, vitamin B1 (thaimin), B6, B12 and niacin. According to the supplement facts, 75 percent of vitamin A is from natural beta carotene. Independent researchers suggested that synthetic vitamins do not work as well as natural vitamins and can also be toxic. Vitamin toxicity can occur if the vitamin is not created properly or contaminated with harmful substances such as metallic aluminum. These types of problem happen more than people may realize. These are some of the reasons why I stopped taking Double X.

How do I know Double X contains low quality synthetic vitamins and minerals?

To find out if Double X’s vitamins and minerals are synthetic or cheaply made you need to look at the supplement facts on the back of the box. Below is a list of some of the vitamins and minerals listed on the box of Double X.

Vitamin B6 (from pyridoxine hydrochloride): “From pyridoxine hydrochloride” means that the source of vitamin B6 is from pyridoxine hydrochloride which is the synthetic version of B6.

Vitamin C (from ascorbic acid): Ascorbic acid is the synthetic version of vitamin C. The natural vitamin C complex is made of many different components. Ascorbic acid is only a small part of the whole chemical structure of vitamin C.

Vitamin B12 (from cyanocobalamin): Cyanocobalamin is only one part of the vitamin B12 complex. Cyanocobalamin is easy to create in lab and is cheap, which is why supplement manufacturers love using it. The natural version of B12 is created by bacteria and is more expensive to make.

Magnesium (from magnesium oxide): Two of the best sources of magnesium are magnesium taurate and magnesium citrate. The reasons are because they are easy to absorb and utilize by the body. Magnesium oxide is hard for the body to utilize and is very hard to absorb.

These are just a few example of the cheap vitamins found in Double X. Once you learn how to tell if a vitamin is synthetic or not, and high quality or not, you will know if the supplement you are buying is high quality. The supplement facts will usually help you with this. By reading Double X supplement facts, it becomes clear that it is just an average dietary supplement that is overpriced. It is important to know that not all synthetic vitamins are bad. Some do work but you need to find the ones that are easy to absorb and are created with care. The problem with vitamins is that they are usually dried with high heat before being packaged. This will destroy some of the vitamins that are sensitive to heat. As a result, the amount of vitamins you get per serving is misleading.

Friday, August 26, 2011

Your Upline Helps You - Or Themselves?

Over the years, I have encountered many IBOs and they often have a common theme. They trust their upline and in some cases, consider them mentors. Now in a business venture, it might be good to have a mentor or someone to guide you, but in the Amway opportunity, most of the upline mentors make money off those who they mentor. That is a major conflict of interest but IBOs simply fail to see it. Just about any "help" you receive results in compensation for someone upline.

When an IBO sees the plan in a big meeting or function, the speaker will often be built up as a financial guru, and possibly as an expert on how to succeed in Amway. An IBO may hear something about the trail was already blazed by upline and you just need to follow the trail. Don't re-invent the wheel, just copy what upline did. But as I have said many times before, duplication sounds easy and looks good on paper, but in real life, the vast majority of IBOs run into problems that they simply cannot overcome, such as the bad reputation that the Amway name has in the US. High prices for products don't help either.

What is troubling however, is that IBOs are taught to trust upline and do as they say (defacto requirement), but they are also taught that failure is their own shortcomings, even when they do exactly what upline told them. It is also troubling that many uplines will tell their faithful followers that they need to purchase more and more tools (voicemail, cds, seminar tickets). In some cases, an upline may advise their downline to sacrifice basic family needs to buy these tools. I saw some IBOs who were advised to skip meals to buy a cd, or skip paying the mortgage to be able to attend the next big function. The results are devastating for some.

I might also add that as a newer IBO or prospect, you may have heard that "everyone starts at zero", or that it's a level playing field. It is not. As a new IBO, you will likely be in the 100 PV bracket. Since Amway pays out about 31% in bonuses, your upline(s) will split up about 28% in bonuses off your efforts while you get a 3%bonus. That doesn't sound very level to me. In addition, you as an IBO are paying for this priviledge when you buy tools.

So each IBO should look at things objectively and see if your upline is actually helping you or simply helping himself by giving you advice that ends up in profit for himself with little or nothing for you.

Thursday, August 25, 2011

Dead Or Broke At 65 - How Does $115 A Month Help You?

One of the myths that IBOs and IBO leaders perpetuate is that 98% of people will be dead or broke by the age of 65. I have debunked this myth more than once, but I had an interesting thought about this subject. If people are destined to be dead or broke by age 65 as IBOs claim, then for sure the Amway business is not going to change that end result. It is likely to ensure that you end up broke, provided you live to be 65 years or older. Imagine people who go all in for Amway, and wind up with $115 a month? You would be a surefire qualifyer for food stamps or some other government assistance with that kind of income. Ironically, Amwayers use the fear of being broke as a means to recruit people to do Amway.

Amway's own numbers show that the average IBO earns $115 a month. And that $115 a month is not counting IBOs who did nothing, and it is gross income, meaning that business expenses and taxes have not yet been factored in. Unless you have a large nest egg, pension, and/or some kinds of investments to live on, the amount of income that the average IBO earns from Amway won't make any difference in their lifestyles. In fact, if an IBO is putting 10-12 hours a week into their business, then that IBO is earning less than $3.00 an hour for their efforts. You would be better off doing much more lucrative work such as flipping burgers or greeting customers at WalMart.

Seriously, if you are looking at Amway as a business opportunity, then the average earnings should be alarming. The person prospecting new people will say that the average is low because many people quit or don't work hard enough. The question to come back with would be why this is so if the business was so efficient and the products were so good. If you note that the average income is $115 a month for IBOs and .5, yes, that's one half of one percent reach the level of Gold/Platinum where you might earn $1000 a month (before taxes and expenses), then most people would conclude that it is not a good business proposition. I wonder if many Amway prospects are young and inexperienced in life, thus unable to properly evaluate a business opportunity? Or do Amway recruiters make the business sound simple and easy, which would be deceptive?

If you want to earn less than minimum wage on average, then Amway might be the perfect opportunity for you!

Your Upline's Dreams Fulfilled At Your Expense?

One of the issues I have with the Amway plan is that the newest IBO, possibly the one who does the most "Work", receives the smallest compensation. Amway pays about 32% of their income back in the form of bonuses. An IBO who does 100 PV receives a 3% bonus and somewhere, uplines and sponsors receive the rest. Some of the upline may not have even met the IBO who actually did the work. Is that really fair and is that a level playing field? What do some of these uplines do to deserve the lion's share of the bonus you worked to get? Yes, the upline diamond may show the plan in an open meeting, which may help you, but then again, you pay for entrance into that meeting.

Many uplines will talk about dreams and fulfilling your dreams. But if an IBO would stop and think for a moment, you can easily see that you are building the dreams of your upline, and not your own. You receive a tiny portion of the bonus for the volume that you move, and then in addition, if you are on the system, then you are also paying upline in the form of tool purchases for the priviledge of giving them bonuses with your product purchases.

It is why your upline diamonds can parade around on stage with designer suits and show you their fancy cars and mansions and other toys. It is because they are cashing in on your efforts. You are making their dreams come true. Your dedication to moving volume and purchasing standing orders are fulfilling dreams. The upline dreams. Yes, someday you can hope to have your own group of downline to exploit for your own benefit, but unless you are adding members to your group regularly, you will never achieve the kinds of dreams that uplines talk about. In the meantime though, you are definitely helping someone upline achieve their dreams with every function you attend. Ironically, the upline leaders will tell you to never quit, even if they don't know your personal circumstances and/or how your business is progressing.

Here's a challenge for IBOs and/or prospects who are being recruited into the Amway business. 100 PV will cost around $300 a month and dedication to the tools system will cost you around $150 to $250 a month on average. Would you not be better off simply writing a check to your upline for $100 and not even joining? Would you not be better off staying home and watching television instead of joining? If you read all of the information available on this blog and still decide to join, good luck to you, but remember this: Whose dreams are being fulfilled by your participation?
Yours or your upline?

Wednesday, August 24, 2011

The Return Of Quixtarisacult

Welcome back my friend!


Quixtar? isn't this Amway? I'm sure a lot of prospective recruits into the former Quixtar pyramid recruitment scheme have asked that question. It all seems so amusing to me now. Shouldn't people being exposed to the supposed new Amway Global pyramid recruitment scheme now ask the question: But isn't this Quixtar?

The former Amway cult became the former Quixtar cult which is now the present day Amway Global cult. A cult by any other name is just as bad I suppose? The historic bad legacy of Amway continues; and yes, it is still a cult, a pernicious (harm doing) cult. They still operate by proselytism of the unwary into a 'closed market swindle' preying on their own with little regard for the thousands of thousands who have historically lost in the Devos/Van Andel merry-go-round of greed.

I find it ironic that Amway is now willing to cough up well over 100 million dollars to re-compensate present and former 'associates' who GOT SCAMMED by Quixtar! Of course they admit no wrongdoing? Of course they settled pyramid scheme allegations made by former 'associates' out of court.

I'd really like to say to all those former Quixtar Independent Business Operators I TOLD YOU SO! Of course that might seem like gloating which it is. The truth has always been out there. The writing has been on the wall about Quixtar/Amway. British born author and Amway critic David Brear coined the best descriptive term for Amway: The Financial Holocaust. Indeed Amway's history reads like a crime story. I sometimes grow weary of repeating the same bad themes about Amway, but there is always the hope that just one prospective recruit can be saved the anguish of realizing the bad truths of Amway after the money's all gone.

Quixtar just seems like an appropriate name for the Amway cult. What could they have been thinking? Shouldn't this Quixtar affair be continuously served up cold and rubbed in Amway's face? Isn't it significant that Amway is coughing up a very small percentage of their swindled loot to settle with the 'taken' in their former Quixtar Cult?

Amway, again, manages to settle their pyramid scheme problems out of court and stay in operation. With very minor changes in their carefully devised swindle, they continue to rope in the unwary (or the greedy) and continue their swindle worldwide unabated. Of course that is the bad news. For those squandering thousands of dollars in a Quixtar nightmare, there may be a check and some rather mundane Amway products on your horizon. Your intentions to defraud others into your scheme may pay off in an unexpected way. Lucky you!

"The Amway slot machine rings up a couple cherries I suppose, not exactly the three gold bars as originally promised."

The proposed settlement may still be in the hands of the presiding judge. You would think that the Department of Justice might take a long look at the alleged Amway corruption. I suppose the DOJ will just take Amway's word for it that they are admitting no guilt by settling the suit. Again, this all plays out like past Amway affairs. Amway watchers and critics have good reason to be jaded!

Tuesday, August 23, 2011

Your Upline Is Just A Salesman?

Our group (WWDB) edified people who bought extraordinary amounts of extra tapes/cds, extra function tickets and made superhuman efforts to get to functions. Looking back, I remember an IBO who was edified for coming all the way to a family reunion function in Portland Oregon when he was diagnosed with terminal cancer. The speaker said he could have been miserable spending time at home but here he was making a difference in people's lives. WTF? I once wrote a post about how IBOs think they are saving the world and helping people when in reality, the masses of IBOs are only "helping" their diamonds to attain material wealth by purchasing function tickets, voicemail, standing orders and other materials. While people are doing community service, IBOs are sitting in functions and rah rah meetings.

I would agree that some training and information can be helpful for new IBOs but I do not see any value in a neverending supply of cds and and endless number of meetings and functions. The very thing (support materials) that uplines claim is your key to success is the very thing that nearly guarantees business building IBOs to financial struggles. Our upline wanted IBOs to be out of debt, which is good, but they would also say in the same breath that it was okay to go into hock if it was to attend functions or to purchase additional support materials. Sadly, many IBOs do not see through this self serving advice.

Most people, including myself are very wary when we deal with car salesmen. We are wary because we know that the salesman is out to make money off of us and will try to sell us every option in the book. Thus we negotiate and reject the car options that we don't really need to or. Guess what? Your uplines are like car salesmen except that they sell you different options such as premier club, standing order, book of the month, function tickets, voicemail, open meeting tickets. Just like a car buying customer, taking all the options maximizes the car salesman's commission and the car dealer's profit. Buying all the support materials increases your upline's profits. Imagine the car saleman telling you that the extended warranty was vital to owning the car. You'd think twice about it, yet uplines will tell you that functions are vital to your Amway business and many IBOs buy it hook line and sinker. I hope this analogy will encourage IBOs to think of support materials as options on the car. You don't need any options to make the car work. Just as you don't really need support materials to buy and sell Amway products, and to get some downline to do the same.

We are wary of car salesmen. In my opinion, downline and prospects should be just as wary of uplines who promote tools as "vital" to your success in Amway. Keep in mind that a sponsor is obligated to help train any downline, regardless of whether they are on the system or not.

Monday, August 22, 2011

Get Rich Slow?

One of the things upline used to say was that Amway is not "get rich quick". I suppose they say this because most people would more likely think scam if they promoted it that way. But when you stop and think about it, 2-5 years, build it right and you have willable, residual income for like while walking the beaches of the world? That's not get rich quick? Or is it more of a disclaimer so that the opportunity doesn't sound "too good to be true"? One thing is for sure, even if uplines tell you that it's not get rich quick, it's obvious that IBOs think they will eventually get rich, even if it's not "quick".

What most IBOs don't figure out quickly enough, is that they are unlikely to even make a profit, let alone getting rich in Amway. How many of these people exist? Where are all of these retired Amway IBOs who built a business in 2-5 years and then walked away from their business and will be collecting a significant residual income for many years to come afterwards? I don't know of a single person who has done this and none of the Amway defenders and zealots I have encountered over the years have been unable to supply this information either. It's like some kind of myth or urban legend that people have actually retired from Amway on residual income. We also know that due to attrition, it is virtually impossible to maintain a profitable Amway business. People quit the business daily, thus even what looks like a solid business can be gone in a very short amount of time.

I can acknowledge that Amway is a business opportunity and will definitely take some work to be able to achieve something. But thinking realistically, what business could you actually be able to walk away in 5 years and not work again? More than likely that business doesn't exist, whether it's Amway or not. Say you opened a conventional business. There wouldn't be many scenarios where you could walk away after a number of years. The business would still require work and maintenance. But for some reason, people are mislead to believe that you can do this in Amway where there is a high attrition rate and where your business can only expand by person to person.

Sadly, many of the people who are attracted to the Amway opportunity are often young people looking to get more out of life. They are often ambitious but may lack a means to gain wealth, thus the appeal of the opportunity is there. Unfortunately, these nice young people are more likely to end up channeling their hard earned dollars into standing orders and functions which will almost guarantee that they end up with a net loss. The bottom line is that not only is Amway not get rich quick. The more likely scenario is that your involvement with Amway will very likely be not getting rich at all. A net loss is the most likely result. I challenge anyone to try and prove me wrong on this point.

Saturday, August 20, 2011

Why People Associate Amway With "Scam"?

I've seen many debates recently on why some people think Amway is a scam. Normally a defense of all this is that the abuses or the scam part of business, being the tools, is not the fault of Amway. It is true that Amway the corporation does not scam anyone, or sell them these tools. However, the groups such as WWDB, BWW, or Network 21 are run by IBOs. They are run by Amway IBOs. Even though the Amway corporation is a seperate entity from these tool companies, these tool comapnies are still run by Amway IBOs and they use the Amway opportunity to capitalize on the downline as customers of the tools.

While there is nothing wrong with some personal development and motivation, I believe there is a lack of honesty and tranparency in how the tools business is administered. For example, how many IBOs actually know exactly how to qualify for a cut of the tools income and is there a specific compensation plan for these tools? Allegedly, there are some documents explaining this but I do not believe the rank and file IBOs know about the details. In cases where diamond income was revealed, diamonds made significant income from the sale of tools. Some diamonds make a lot more from tools than from Amway. Also, since a diamond recognition is forever, even non qualifying diamonds can be getting significant income from Amway.

So why the label of scam? Because so few people actually make money from the Amway opportunity. Amway defenders like to cite that most IBOs simply do nothing. While iy may be true, this in itself represents a problem with the recruitment process or the recruiters. Even if you examine a big function where there may be tens of thousands in attendance, I wonder how many have a net gain after expenses? I would guess the answer to that is a fraction of 1%. Amway's own numbers reveal this. $115 a month average gross income. And .5 (one half of one percent) of IBOs reach the Gold/Platinum level where you earn about $1000 a month gross income, or near the equivalent of full time minimum wage.

And to gain this full time minimum wage proposition, you must overcome incredible challenges, including being able to replace IBOs who quit, and to replace them ast enough so your volume doesn't diappear. Thus some IBOs, desperate to sponsor, resort to tricks and deception to get people to see the plan. I experienced it myself. These actions, coupled with a low success rate, make it seem like a scam for most, especially when the tools are claimed (by the tool sellers) to be a bonafide means to success in Amway. Add all of these up, and over the years, you develop the reputation of "scam". Amway can do more to restore their reputation, but it is unknown to the public in general what and if anything is being done about the abuses.

Thursday, August 18, 2011

Amway IBOs Help People?

One of the things my upline said at nearly every meeting was how we were helping people by sharing the dream and showing others the Amway plan. "Helping people". He claimed that IBOs became better people and were doing good for the community by helping people. I always thought this was odd because the only people we really "helped" were those who got into the business. We didn't hang out with or help anyone else. We didn't do community projects and many of us had little money to help others because we were buying products and discretionary money for most IBOs were mostly sucked up by the system and the tools.

How do you help someone when your life is dedicated to buying and selling Amway products, recruiting Amway prospects and attending Amway related meetings to learn how to recruit more Amway IBOs and to motivate yourself to never quit the business. I used to think about people doing volunteer work, or community service projects, or even outreach through their churches. These are the real everydy heroes who are helping others. While an outreach volunteer feeds the homeless, IBOs are in meetings. When people are doing community service projects, IBOs are showing the plan or prospecting the malls for new recruits. Who is actually helping people?
IBOs only help people who are interested in joining Amway. Aside from that, it wasn't apparent to me that IBOs did much of anything to help others.

Yes, I am aware that IBOs at times, contribute to Easter Seals and the like, but do they invest the kind of time that others do? And I'm not faulting IBOs, but simply pointing out that the Amway business activities can eat away at your time and prevent you from spending time with family and friends, and prevent you from actually "helping others". While the Amway business is no different than other businesses and the like in that regard, I do not feel that the tiny average earnings of IBOs make it worth their while to spend all of that time in meetings and recruitng to make their return on their investment a worthwhile activity. While you trade hours for dollars at a job, you trade hours for losses or pennies in Amway (for most active IBOs).

So in all of the activities you engage in as an IBO, are you helping people? Or are you only helping people who might be interested in joining your Amway business? Are you truly wanting to help others or your Amway business......

Wednesday, August 17, 2011

Amway Critics?

To this day, Amway has many critics and supporters. Many supporters become critics if they leave the Amway business. Some Amway apologists are claiming victory recently as they say there are fewer new internet critics. But funny enough, there aren't any apparently new Amway supporters on the net either. But still, it doesn't appear that Amway is suddenly growing by leaps and bounds. The name Amway doesn't bring visions of sugarplums in most people's heads. In fact when you google Amway, you'll see many critical sites and the words scam or pyramid often associated with the name "Amway".

What does the Amway name bring? People often think of "pyramid" or "scam". Some people are negative about the Amway opportunity and they don't even know why. Many people however, were involved in Amway at one time, or knows someone who had a bad experience. While many people's experience may have little to do with the Amway corporation, surely the motivational groups such as N21, BWW, or WWDB has had an impact on people's experience with Amway. Getting tricked into attending meetings or being lied to will lead to a bad experience. So will ridiculous snake oil campaigns like perfect water. Most people are recruited by family or friends, thus these victims are often reluctant to file complaints against their family and friends to authorities.

But has Amway done anything significant about IBO abuses? Surely they must know something about this. Someone from Amway routinely visits my blog to see what I am writing. But as far as I know, even the most abusive uplines have gone unpunished. Amway implemented an accreditation program, but thus far it appears to be mostly a toothless tiger.

I have some suggestions to curb Amway criticism. Transparency. Why not inform prospects of how many diamonds are currently qualified? Why not say how many IBOs are active or registered? Why not report North American sales? Why not say what the typical IBO earns? It would prevent critics and supporters from extrapolating information and making their own possibly inaccurate conclusions. Of course Amway is a private company and therefore will probably release only information that is required by law. And that is their right. But if that is the case, then criticism will continue......

Like the AMO saying goes, insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. With no apparent changes forthcoming from Amway, the valid criticism continues........

Monday, August 15, 2011

It's Not Amway?,

I chuckled as I read a recent exchange between an IBO and someone who was questioning the tactics of some upline. The IBO defended Amway by saying that these unethical practices are the result of a "few individuals" and not Amway. By the letter of the law, I guess you could make that argument and I'm pretty sure that Amway's legal team set it up that way. IBOs are independent, thus Amway is not responsible for their actions. But the reality is that these are Amway business owners.

Basically, while an IBO may be independent, they still represent Amway as they are the contact between Amway and potential customers, assuming they actually have customers. It also gets sketchy when an IBO leader is doing unethical things as it may affect tens of thousands of people. Take my former group for example. WWDB. They taught all kinds of made up stuff, and because I was dedicated to the system, I simply believed the leaders because I "thought" they had my best interest at heart. Turns out they probably had their own interest at heart, seeing as how I had to pay for any appearances these dedicated leaders made. While Amway IBOs proclaim that changes are being made, there is plenty of evidence and testimony to show that nothing substantial has changed in all these years.

For example, I frequent the blog of a WWDB IBO and he is saying the same things I heard many years ago. For example, that Amwayers had a 2% divorce rate compared to 60% for the rest of the world. This IBO also speaks about getting out of debt, when in reality, he'd likely be better off if not for the expenses associated with Amway. His dedicated leaders seem to have convinced him that selling his home and cashing out a 401K was a good idea. Was this genuine advice or simply a way to ensure that this IBO has enough cash to continue to attend functions?

Apparently Gred Duncan teaches this group. The group denies that Greg Duncan was mixed up in financial problems. That the public documents were fabricated somehow. It's apparent by the IBO comments that Mr. Duncan and/or other WWDB leaders are still teaching the group to buy homes in cash, and other litte treats. Seems hypocritical from someone who had interest only loans on homes that got foreclosed. I'm not rejoicing at his difficulties, but in a way, it did shine light on the untruths he may be representing about his finances and his income.

So while IBOs like to exclude Amway from the problems that exist, they in turn like to take credit for Amway's sales, Amway's various environmental awards, and partner stores. The same holds true on the other side of the coin. Amway's billion dollar sales month? Great for Amway - but you aren't Amway. Amway won some award? Great for Amway, but you aren't Amway. Amway is the only one who can reign in downline abuse but they seem content to sit by. Maybe some token actions are taken, but nothing substantial. Turn back to the Amway owner's admission that the tools are a pyramid. When Amway tried to take action, sales went down and the actions stopped. While Amwayers like to cite accreditation, there is no teeth to it. The groups simply edit out portions of their cds, or parts of speeches are ignored.

The excuse is that IBOs are not Amway. But whose name is damaged by these IBOs? Why are these IBO leaders still in power after decades of abuse? Where is there any evidence that action is taken? There is only the sound of crickets chirping........

Friday, August 12, 2011

WalMart.com Versus Amway.com Price Comparison?

I did an online comparison on a handful of products at WalMart.com and Amway.com. WalMart fared much better overall, but surprisingly, Amway's Glister toothpaste was a bit cheaper than WalMart, but that does not factor in the free shipping on many WalMart products. I posted the results below from some common items on both websites:

Aveeno Positively Smooth Shave Gel, 7 oz

TOLSOM® Shave Gel
Retail: $9.75

Arm & Hammer Advanced White Fluoride Anti-Cavity Tartar Control… Toothpaste, 6 oz, 2pk

GLISTER® Multi-action Fluoride Toothpaste
6.75 oz.
Retail: $3.99


Aveeno(R) Positively Ageless(Tm) Daily Exfoliating Cleanser Cle…
Online $7.87

ARTISTRY® TIME DEFIANCE® Cleansing Treatment
Retail: $31.99

Spring Valley Calcium Supplement 600 mg with Vitamin D, 250 ct …

NUTRILITE® Cal Mag D - 180 tablets
Retail: $24.99

Equate Multivitamin A Thru Z Adults 50+ Tablets Dietary $10.00

NUTRILITE® DOUBLE X Vitamin/ Mineral/ Phytonutrient - 31-Day Refill
Retail: $75.35

Scott Extra Soft Bath Tissue:
Lots of rolls, same great value and softness
24 double rolls = 48 single rolls

12 / 4 Packs, 48 rolls total
Item #: 744685
Retail Price $47.04

Why Amway Doesn't Work For Most?

One of the biggest shams taught by some upline is the nearly exclusive "buy from yourself" philosophy. I'm not saying that supporting your business is a bad idea, but are you really supporting yout own business? If your upline teaches this, you are being mislead and I will explain why.

When you think you are buying from yourself, you are really buying from Amway. Amway makes the profit from the sales. If you buy enough, they toss you a small rebate. An IBO is in reality, a distributor or a middleman. Also, if you are a new IBO at the 100 PV level, you will receive 3% in the form of a bonus while your uplines and sponsor will split up approximately 29 to 30% in bonuses off your efforts.

Think of it this way. If your spouse was in the business of making and selling cookies, would you make money by eating all of the cookies? Even if you received a small rebate for cookie making materials, you would not profit by eating all the cookies yourself. You would have to sell the cookies to customers to have cash in your pockets. I truly do not understand how IBOs get duped into thinking they can be successful and earn money buy purchasing and consuming Amway products without selling much. Amway's own numbers suggest that IBOs do not sell much, except to their own downline and to themselves. And if you are counting on selling to downline, then you need to have downline, and those faithful downline will be losing money so you can make a profit. It is partly why there is so much attrition in Amway. IBOs are not profitable and cannot easily sell products, and quit.

And uplines who sell tools that teach this method are more than likely selling you a flawed system that nearly guarantees you will lose money. A rare few IBOs will emerge now and then who can overcome overwhelming odds and barriers and reach higher levels in the business, but I would have to say that more than 99% of IBOs who sign up will never even get close to emerald or diamond. Sadly, the buy from yourself system will only profit the higher level distributors, as well as your purchase of tools, which rewards upline for teaching a flawed system.

Thursday, August 11, 2011

Get Amway Products Cheaper By Not Purchasing From Amway?

One of the things that Amway defenders like to whine about is the money back guarantee made by Amway and the tool companies. Thus an IBO has low risk by joining and usiing the products and tools. But I wonder how well known this money back guarantee is among the rank and file IBOs? I mean if IBOs knew this and it was as easy to get your money back as claimed, why are there countless numbers of IBOs selling Amway products and tools at incredibly discounted rates? If CDs cost $7 or so, why would someone be selling them in lots of 60 for $10? Why would someone sell lots of 6 glister toothpaste for $22? Is the money back guarantee a myth or is upline simply combative with their downline IBOs who want to return product?

I recently did some searched on ebay and craigslist and if you google ebay amway products or craigslist amway products, you get hoards of stuff for sale. Many of them at prices that cannot be matched even by Amway. Maybe a wise person would just buy them and return them to Amway, or buy the unopened tools and return them to upline. Apparently the IBOs who are selling these gems could not or would not simply return them to Amway or their upline. How can that be when Amway apologists swear on a stack of Bibles that returning stuff is so easy and convenient?


Now I am quite certain that someone who called Amway would be able to return stuff. But I suppose it's possible that the caller will be refered to an upline or sponsor somewhere? As an IBO, we just returned stuff to the platinum, which rarely occured. I wonder if things have changed? I wonder what answer an upline would give someone who said that last major function sucked and wanted their $125 back? Note on my link that people are selling BWW and WWDB tools. How could anyone part with such valuable information for such a small price? LOL

Maybe IBOs should shop ebay and craigslist before they make Amway purchases. Some of the seller offer free shipping even if the purchase is below $75. You could have substantial savings buying Amway products and tools from sources other than Amway!


Wednesday, August 10, 2011

How To Make A Fortune In Amway?


“Mr. Reed,
I found your site interesting, especially your analysis of RDPD. I must admit that I enjoyed the book because of its "easy read," but your analysis is right on target.

I attended a Quixtar (aka, QuixScam, Amway, AmQuix, Scamway, etc.) conference in the Fall of 2000 at which he was a keynote speaker. He espoused network marketing and recommended complete dedication to building the Quixtar pyramid business even though he hadn’t found pyramid businesses worth his time. Ultimately, RK has found a way to obtain significant financial benefit from pyramid-based businesses without having to build one of his own.

The story is that Bill Galvin discovered his book at a carwash in (or about) Houston Texas. At that time, RK could not get his book published and distributed in a more traditional manner. Bill Galvin is a diamond under the Dexter Yager organization for Amway/Quixtar. In fact, I still have an old prospecting tape of a dialogue between Bill Galvin and Robert Kiyosaki. You can have it if you want it. I’m sure you’ll enjoy it. By the way, the tapes he produces for Amway/Quixtar diamonds are also distributed by the 10’s of thousands for which he gets a cut of each $6 tape that costs less than $1 to produce.

Anyway, Bill Galvin distributed RDPD to the "leaders" in his group. Bill and his leaders loved the book, so they contacted RK to buy more. The distribution of motivational tools in the Amway/Quixtar distributor networks is extremely efficient (and profitable for higher ups). His popularity grew quickly as his books were channeled to many thousands of lower level distributors by diamond distributors. Distributors would often buy several to hand out while prospecting new recruits. Not wanting to be left in the dust, other MLM networks picked up on the book and it has spread through their organizations as well. I would guess that the MLM industry was responsible for putting RK on the best seller list.

If you take RK’s mantra of "financial literacy" seriously and begin take financial control of your life, the vague and inconsistent information in his book becomes progressively more alarming. I tried to research any record of Kiyosaki but found practically nothing. I am impressed that you found as much as you did.
You made some very interesting references to "cult of personality." RK appears to benefit from that phenomenon and it probably explains why various MLM organizations (especially Amway/Quixtar) have latched onto him. Many of the high level distributors in MLM organizations also benefit from what could be described as a "cult of personality." There is obviously some "synergy" there. If you don't mind, I'll quote you on your reference to cult of personality.

My disappointment with RK has grown steadily due to inconsistencies, vaguesness, unsubstantiated claims, and his chosen association with MLM organizations. That alone should be sufficient to arouse suspicions.

By the way, did you know that his first two bankruptcies were supposedly related to a nylon wallet manufacturing business? I'm not sure where I heard that...it may be on that Galvin/Kiyosaki prospecting I told you about or in one of his books. If you recall in the late 70s early 80s there was a fad with bright colored nylon wallets. RK was supposedly involved in manufacturing those...first domestically and then importing them from China. Since that was pre-internet, Secretary of State corporation records don't reliably go back their far to do an online search.

After deciding that manufacturing wasn't for him, he built a financial education (or services) company that had 11 offices around the world. He sold his business or his share of the business for "several million." I didn't know if you were aware of that.

After that, RKs goal was to buy "one to two houses per year." [I am not a real estate expert, but why would RK focus on buying houses versus other RE investments?]

Sorry if all of this is old news. I can't remeber what he information he published versus what he talked about in the prospecting tapes he has made for Amway/Quixtar distributors.” Best Regards, Jeff Parsons.

Monday, August 8, 2011

Your Chance Of Amway Success?

Many people consider the platinum level in Amway as a significant achievement in Amway. While it may be nice to achieve that level and gain recognition from the Amway corporation, I will point out that there was a study done in Wisconsin where the attorney general analyzed and found that platinums on average, lost money. The study is somewhat dated, but I will also point out that today, there are MORE expenses associated with running an Amway business than before. (Voicemail, books, functions, standing orders, shipping). I would guess that it's possible that platinums lose more today than when the Wisconsin study was done.

A typical platinum group often has 100 ore more downline IBOs. Thus a logical conclusion is that less than 1% of IBOs can reach that level. It is also, apparently rare to maintain that level. My former upline diamond had 7 frontline platinums in his heyday. Actually, 6 of them were ruby level. None of them hold the platinum level today. So you have a less than 1% chance of reaching platinum and then you are unlikely to be able to maintain that level. Many of these former platinums are not even in business today.

What serious prospective business owner would even consider opening a business where you have such a tiny chance of success? Even those who achieve platinum are likely to lose that level. If platinums cannot maintain their level, then it's easy to see why there are former diamonds as well. It seems that people are willing to take a chance on an Amway business because the start up cost is low. But what is the point of doing all of that when the chance of making money is negligible? The startup cost is low, but your chance of success is even lower. Seriously, a lottery ticket would be a better investment for most because buying a lottery ticket doesn't eat up 10-15 hours a week of your spare time.

To compound the problem, many IBOs spend a lot of time and money building an Amway business that is unlikely to give them any return on their investment. I'd guess that the average serious IBO would spend $250 a month of more on tools. That money invested over a number of years in mutual funds would give you a much better chance of achieving some dreams. Even putting the money in the bank would make you better off than the vast majority of IBOs. A serious business owner would want to know their realistic chance of making money. For some strange reason, prospects and IBOs seem to ignore this reality. A real business owner would want to see bonafide credentials such as a schedule C (business tax return). But for some reason, IBOs and prospects seem to think pictures of cars and mansions is living proof that the diamonds are rich beyond belief. In many cases, I believe it is all a facade or an illusion.

It is because uplines are in the business of selling tools and distributorships. They are not truly interested in your long term sustainable success. If you don't believe me, try to stop purchasing standing orders and function tickets and see how much longer you are edified and given help from upline. Seriously, would a real business owner be interested in a less than 1% chance of success?

Saturday, August 6, 2011

Amway's Legal Loophole?

There's been much debate recently on the James Randi Educational Forum (JREF). Most call Amway a scam and one prolific defender cites the point that IBOs are not Amway. And Amway doesn't sell training materials. While that is legally true, the owner of Amway, back in 1983 acknowledged that the sale of tools was, basically unethical and possibly illegal. However, inaction by the Amway corporation led to the heyday of the tool scam and financial abuse of downline. There's the loophole that covers Amway. IBOs are independent.

However, these same IBO leaders could not run free scamming downline if Amway were to intervene. I believe Amway doesn't take any apparent significant action for fear that these leaders would move their groups to another MLM. The result over the years is a lousy reputation in the US where the name Amway is associated with pyramid, scam and other undesirables. I suppose Amway has survived though, because of a saying by PT Barnum. There's a sucker born every minute. I suppose there are enough pockets of young or unsuspecting people who can still be convinced to join, so it's business as usual.

Which brings to to the next point. Unfortunately, new IBOs are basically suckers. They pay a fee to Amway, in order to become an unpaid Amway salesperson. You absorb your own time and expenses in order to move Amway products, and if you move enough of them, you can get a minimal bonus. You also at your own time and expense, recruit other unpaid salespeople for Amway. Your reward for this is you get credited for a portion of their sales, provided they use or actually sell anything. Most IBOs do little or nothing so your efforts are usually in vain.

But the real trick is to have IBO leaders convince downline that voicemail and cds and live meetings (seminars) can actually help you succeed. There is zero unbiased evidence to suggest that this training or tools do anything but make handsome profits for the people who sell them. Even if many IBOs sign up and do nothing, there are enough serious ones to support the pharoah diamond leaders. And food for thought, do IBOs really need voicemail in an age of email, twitter, facebook and other more efficient means of commincation?

So yes, Amway IBOs are not Amway. Amway diamond leaders are not Amway.

But if Amway cannot or will not stop those who taint their name, then they simply must live with the reputation of being a scam or a pyramid. They can be legal to the letter of the law, but most people see it for what it is. Being legal doesn't necessarily mean ethical or moral. It is my opinion that when you sign up for Amway, you are nearly assured of losing money. It's not your fault though, it is the result of a bad system. I encourage everyone to do their due diligence before joining any business, Amway notwithstanding.

Friday, August 5, 2011

Join Amway To Annoy And Exploit Your Family And Friends?

Many people see the Amway plan, and get unrealistic dreams of attaining incredible material wealth and retiring in a few years. I find it strange that nobody has been able to point out anyone who actually got in, worked a few years and then walked away from the business and is now enjoying buckets of cash rolling in while they spend their days on exotic beaches sipping mai tais. The more likely scenario will be debt, higher credit card bills, and boxes of unused cds and other various products.

So why would someone joining the business become annoying? It's because to the average person, it beomes clear that to achieve this, you need to find "six" people. Thus to find six people, you need to make contacts to show the plan. Cold contacts of people on the street would be unlikely, even for the boldest of people, so new IBOs start lookin at people they know. They start with people they are familiar with, or family and friends. They may also think their family and friends will want to get rich with them.

Sadly for most new and enthusiastic IBOs, they will find that they are shunned by family and friends. Over the years, IBOs have done too much damage to Amway's reputation and overcoming this challenge is too much for the rank and file IBOs. They will hear stories on failures and opinions that Amway is a pyramid and/or a scam. Of course, IBOs will have "canned" answers to respond to from their upline. One of the humorous ones is that Amway is praised by the BBB or the FTC and is the shining example of an MLM. To those familiar with this line of reasoning, it can become side splitting humorous.

At first, the family and friends may humor the new IBO, but relentless persistence can eventually turn ugly. This is where uplines will teach the new IBOs to avoid "negative" and to shun these family and friends. This is why some people charge the Amway leaders with being cult - like. It's at about this point where IBOs might realize that Amway products are costly and try to sell off some of them to reduce their own costs. Often times, sympathetic family and friends might make a token purchase to show support. but that can get old in a hurry also. Most IBOs will eventually quit and make amends with family and friends, but some lose friendships for good.

To information seekers and new IBOs, hopefully this message is food for thought......

Wednesday, August 3, 2011

IBO Bankrupt Following Upline Advice?

I have posted a comment and link to the forum where I unearthed it. Although the commentor doesn't specify which AMO he was involved with, it sounds very similar to teaching I heard (and still hear about) from Worldwide Group or WWDB. I also saw something like this happen to more than one IBO when I was an IBO myself:


I ended up filing for bankruptcy after trying to build a group myself for three years. I ended up having one person become interested, and they decided to sign with someone else when it got to time for me to bring them a start-up package. That was the last straw for me. I am still good friends with my sponsor, but they have also dropped out after their group of people petered out (sorry Peter).

I was encouraged to attend several conferences out of state and spend tons of money on motivational tapes and books even though I was failing to pay my mortgage and credit card bills… when I tried to get better financial advice from my “upline” - they continued to encourage me to spend, spend, spend… “fake it ‘til I make it”... and all that kind of garbage. When I finally filed for my bankruptcy they were nowhere to be found to assist me with life after Amway.

The people at the top of the sponsorship tend to make a decent amount of income while those at the bottom levels of things really have to struggle to make ends meet. I suppose if you are really charismatic you might be able to sponsor a bunch of people and bring in a fair amount of money, but to really make it big, you need to have connections inside… since support is how you make things work when you can’t.

Amway IBOs - Failure By Design?

When I was being prospected into Amway, I saw the 6-4-2 plan. I am fairly certain that most groups still present the Amway opportunity using the 6-4-2, although I am aware that some groups use different variations of this. The plan sounds so simple. Just sponsor 6. The next layer does less than you and sponsors 4, and the next layer does even less and sponsors 2. First of all, most IBOs don't sponsor a single person to begin with. Many IBOs are unable to even show the plan to another person. So if you cannot achieve even the first step, how can you possibly make the plan come to fruition? The answer is you can't.

Only a fraction of 1% of IBOs ever reach platinum. Out of those who do reach the milestone, few are able to maintain the business and even fewer ever go on and achieve higher levels such as emerald or diamond. WIth the attrition rate so high, even recruiting new IBOs basically keeps you even. The effort required to maintain the business can become a full time job or more for some people. My former sponsor was out showing the plan for himself or for downline every night of the week, save for the functions and other meetings. Amway he said, needs to become your life if you want to succeed.

You have so many factors working against you that it takes an exceptional (and possibly lucky) individual to be able to overcome the challenges to reach a recognized pin level. The spotty name reputation of Amway, the higher (on average) prices of their products, the high attrition rate and the fact that any higher level requires a large downline. These factors make it nearly impossible for anyone to go diamond and reach what appears to be the pinnacle of Amway success. Sure, some IBOs may not have such lofty goals, but the "plan" is designed to achieve diamond. I have not ever seen or heard of a plan for an IBO to achieve 600 PV.

In many instances, whether it's a business, or a sports team, or some other activity, you will notice that the winners or the successes often have a great system. Many fast food businesses for example, have a processing system. A great football team might have a great offensive or defensive system. A large business may also have a proven system. This is where the problem lies in Amway. The system is ineffective. The system as shown to many prospects, needs many "lower level" IBOs working in order for someone to achieve the levels such as platinum.

As you cannot control the actions and beliefs of others, you cannot make people join your business. You cannot make them see the plan. Thus in the past, many IBOs resorted to deception and lies to get people in front of the plan. In college, I was invited to a "beer bust", only to walk into an Amway meeting. The person who invited me said we would do the beer bust after the meeting. Thus my first impression of Amway was a bad one. As one can reasonably conclude, Amway IBOs for the most part, end up failing. But they don;t fail for lack of effort. They fail by design. That's how the 6-4-2 plan is set up (or whatever version your group uses). It is in my opinion, failure by design.

Tuesday, August 2, 2011

IBOs Are Customers!

I've been debating with others about the concept of customers. Amway's most prolific defender is arguing that IBOs are customers and holds the position that there are alot of people who register with Amway simply to be customers. Now I don't know how anyone can possibly make that determination, but regardless of whether it's true or not, these folks are still considered IBOs. I don't want to debate the legal ramifications about the 1979 FTC ruling and the 70& rule, although the spirit of the rule was to prevent IBOs from buying their bonus.

IBOFB/Insider/Icerat/David Steadson apparently contends that IBOs who purchase and then resell to downline are meeting the sales requirements and the downline are customers. Okay, let's go with that. But wait, IBOs do not buy and then resell to their downline. IBOs order directly from Amway do they not? If IBOs order directly from Amway, their upline gets some volume credit for downline purchases but the upline doesn't buy and then resell anything to downline. So are IBOs actually making any sales to non IBOs, save for sympathetic friends and family?

If in fact, IBOs are not selling their goods, and are primarily self consuming them, it means that most of the upline bonus is basically generated from the pockets of the downline. I believe the tools business is a pyramid as only IBOs are buying standing orders and attending functions. The lack of selling Amway products to the public would put the Amway business opportunity in pretty much the same category. I wonder what the FTC would rule today if that were the case? I wonder what the FTC would rule on the tools systems as it is today?

Something to think seriously about. If you are an Amway business owner, and you are selling little or nothing, where do you think your bonus comes from? It either comes from your own pockets, or it comes from taking advantage of your downline, who then pony up a portion of your bonus from their pockets. In a system such as this, the only way to maximize your bonus is to recruit as many downline as possible. Because the more people you can leverage, the more bonus you can get. The problem with this system is that people realize they aren't making money, and that paying in some cases, ridiculous high prices for "prestigious" soap and vitamins is not worth it, and they quit. When these folks lose their Amway dream of mansions and jets, they somehow lose their desire to keep making purchases.

If former IBOs kept on buying Amway goods, then Amway sales would climb pretty much every year as the former IBO's purchases coupled with current IBO purchases should keep going up, not down. But that's not really the case is it? In what business can the employees or company owners be the primary customers and prosper. The answer is none and Amway is not an exception.

Monday, August 1, 2011

Building Amway With A System?

Many IBOs and Amway supporters adhere to the idea that their system works. As far as I know, there is zero unbiased evidence that the system works. The system generally consists of a website, voicemail, standing orders and seminars or functions, as well as meetings to show the plan, etc. While Amway supporters will claim that nearly everyone who succeeds is on the system, they won't mention how everyone who succeeds also has hundreds if not thousands of downlines who do not succeed, even with earnest effort in building the business using the stsem.

Edward O. Thorpe was a math professor at M.I.T. who studied and wrote a theory on Blackjack, and found that it was mathematically possible for a blackjack player to have an edge over the house in a game of blackjack. Casinos scoffed at the theory and said it was just that. A theory with no real life application. Well, Mr. Thorpe started playing small and found that his theory was correct. He was counting cards in blackjack and making consistent money. His book eventually became a best seller. The casinos were ticked off and started kicking out people who were obviously winning and counting cards. Counting cards is not illegal but casinos can refuse to allow a player on their premises. But what casinos did not notice right away, was that their profits were skyrocketing because so many people knew the theory but could not or were not capable of executing the card counting system.

But hey, the system works so everyone should count cards for a living right? Afterall, it is proven by math that the cards will eventually favor a player and in the long run, you can make huge profits from playing blackjack. Of course not, it is ridiculous for people to think that card counting is a good way to make a buck. Not everyone has the bankroll, the skill, and the patience to succeed in card counting. Most people are better off not even trying this.

In my informed opinion, this card counting system is just like WWDB, BWW, LTD, N21 or other Amway systems. For one thing, card counting is a proven system. The Amway systems are not. But it can be viewed as similar in that very few people can use the system and make it work. Even when hundreds of thousands may try it, very few will succeed in both Amway and card counting. In both "systems", those who do not succeed can lose thousands of dollars. In both systems, doing things right can still result in losses.

In both systems, it is "possible" to succeed, but it is highly unlikely. The vast majority of people simply do not possess the knowledge, skills and abilities to make the systems work for them. You also need some money, some patience, and some luck in order to be a long term success. This article is not about comparing the Amway systems to gambling, it is about a person's ability to make the system work. The difference is that nobody promotes card counting as a good way to make a buck. The same holds true about Amway and their systems. It is not a good system to make money.