Monday, March 18, 2024

Diamonds Teaching About Debt?

 Getting out of debt sounds like good advice. On the surface it is because people should not be racking up consumer debt or committing large sums of their income for cars and other items they simply cannot cannot afford. But what does it mean for an IBO? I know my former upline taught our group to get out of debt. However, I believe my former uplines had self-serving intentions when they taught this. Let me translate what I believe they meant:

"You should not have any debt because it would affect your ability to buy more PV and tools. If you have debt, it affects my cashflow"   This is if you read between the lines if what the diamond is saying, in my informed opinion.

Ironically, for many, maybe most IBOs, although taught to get "get out of debt", the bottom-line result is more debt. There is more debt because the cost of products and tools begin to mount. How many families actually spend $300 a month (approximate cost of 100 PV) on household products? And then to add onto that expense, IBOs who are trying to be "successful" need tools which cost anywhere from $150 a month up to more than $500 a month depending on whether the IBO is married, single and the level of commitment. Thus, IBOs are now spending at least several hundreds of dollars or more that they never spent before.

Most IBOs, especially new IBOs, generally earn less than $50 a month. In fact, $50 a month income in this business would make you quite exceptional. Most IBOs earn less than $20 a month. With that kind of income and with the expenses I listed above (tools = voicemail, books, standing orders, and functions), nearly all "serious" IBOs operate in the red and never turn a profit. The only way an IBO can turn a profit is to sell Amway products like crazy (which I have never witnessed) or to sponsor enough downline to absorb the losses for them. The only true success stories are the ones who sell the tools.

The reason why I believe that my former uplines (who are still in WWDB and apparently teach the same things now as they did back when I was an IBO) are teaching self-serving advice because although they said to "get out of debt", they made an exception to this and said it was perfectly okay to go in debt to attend functions or to buy more standing orders. IBOs were also told to do "whatever it takes" to get to the next function or to buy more tools. It is why I witnessed some crosslines go bankrupt, more than one couple lost their homes following upline advice. And these couples were told they shouldn't worry because they can pay cash for their homes when they go diamond. Another apparent lie told by WWDB leaders, especially those who had their own homes foreclosed.

Let's be perfectly real here. If you join Amway and participate in the system consisting of voicemail, books, standing orders and functions, you are far more likely to get into debt or increase your debt rather than making money and getting out of debt. The math bears it out if you are willing to look at it objectively.

Sunday, March 17, 2024

Statues Of Amway Diamonds?

 I often heard the saying in Amway: "there are no statues of Amway critics". To that I would respond, there are no statues of Amway diamonds either.

I often wondered what the Amway opportunity would be without any critics. Most likely Amway IBOs would be blissfully building their business while blindly following upline advice to over consume PV and Amway related tools and functions. If you are in WWDB or another Amway related teaching system, have you noticed that your upline is often tracking how many audios/cds you are sending downline and how many people you have attending functions? This is done because upline is trying to plan and makes plans for their projected income. Do the math on a major function and you will easily see what I mean.

Many Amway supporters think that critics exist only to tear down others or to bash the Amway opportunity. I see it completely opposite. I believe that Amway critics are important for IBOs. Without any opposing voice, IBOs would mistakenly believe that they are in Amway utopia except that eventually, they would notice that they are losing their shirts. An opposing voice is a good thing to bring up issues that you may not have thought of. Imagine what you might be like without the ability to feel pain? You might have injuries or illnesses that would go undetected which could eventually kill you. But you upline probably teaches people to "avoid negative". Avoiding excessive negative might be good but avoiding all negative is like an inability to feel pain.

When I was an IBO, our upline (and many others apparently) claimed that nobody made any profits from the system (voicemail, books, tapes/cds. functions). Without any opposing voices, this might still be happening. IBOs had no way of knowing. Upline just told bold lies and got away with it. To this day, none of these "awesome" leaders have even been held accountable for the lies. The diamonds simply ignored it. Sure, they now speak about making some income from tools, but there is little transparency about how you actually qualify for a share and how much you get when you qualify. Why is that?

Critics have also pointed out that many IBOs are taught to ignore important facts such as their profits versus losses. Some IBOs are taught "fake it till you make it" or they are taught to "buy from yourself", both of which are ridiculous from a business standpoint. But without an opposing view, IBOs would never question upline. In fact, many IBOs are taught to avoid all negative such as don't watch the news or read the newspaper. In other words, upline wants you to be apathetic and only read and intake their Amway propaganda. This is why some people accuse Amway leaders of running a cult.

Think about this. I believe that having opposing views are vitally important for IBOs to consider. Valid criticism is good for IBOs who are serious about building their businesses. Constructive criticism is a good thing. If you consider good criticism as negative, just remember: As far as I know, there are no statues of Amway diamonds.

Friday, March 15, 2024

Success Speaks Volumes?

 I heard a great comment from a commentator on a related Amway blog. Basically, he said if Amway IBOs were so successful, people would just naturally be attracted. And that's true! Where I live, the local electric company is an attractive place to work with a good salary and benefits package. When there's a handful of openings, you might get as many as 6,000 people applying for a handful of these positions. When the federal government hires for the post office, you get thousands of applicants for a handful of jobs as well.

But IBOs have to justify their positions. The common ones are how Amway products are concentrated, or they have magical ingredients in their vitamins. It is my position that if these products were so good and the opportunity actually produced successful IBOs, there would be no need to be deceptive about the products or opportunity. The products could easily be marketed. In fact, customers would be seeking IBOs to find the products, and there would be lines of people waiting to see the opportunity.

Instead, IBOs themselves are the primary consumers of Amway products. Many IBOs are deceptive when inviting people to see the Amway plan. Some prospects are outright lied to when recruited for the Amway opportunity. The curiosity approach is still used by many, because mentioning "Amway" is more likely to get you funny looks than interest. If what I am writing is not true, why do IBOs need to deceive people? Why don't some IBOs open their books and display the financial success they claim to have? Why so secretive? Why aren't there hoards of new diamonds and emeralds each month? Instead, you mainly hear of the Amway growth in foreign countries. Most likely because the Amway name and reputation has not yet been soiled as it has in the US and Canada.

In the US, I see primarily the same old diamonds who were in control of the functions and systems from more than 12 years ago. In fact, factoring in diamonds who quit or dropped out, I believe there are fewer diamonds now than when I was an IBO. Some of these diamonds also had some apparent financial difficulties. The opportunity is far from how it's promoted. Success speaks louder than words, and where North American Amway success is concerned, the silence is deafening!

Thursday, March 14, 2024

If Not Amway, Then What?

 One of the humorous things that Amway IBOs often bring up is that someone who sees Amway in a critical eye should bring up viable business or income producing alternatives. I mean if someone prevents you from falling over a cliff, they should have warned you and given you alternatives right? If I recognized you getting were conned by a conman, I should find viable financial investments for you before warning you of the potential scam you are about to walk into right? It sounds completely ridiculous, but Amway IBOs have actually made those comments on this blog and some other Amway related websites.

Well, let's explore a few of these alternatives anyway just for fun. How about you stay home and do nothing? For most IBOs, you would be better off financially than committing your time and resources into Amway's products and their ineffective training materials and functions. If you are really dedicated to tools, sending your upline a check for $50 or $100 monthly and not buying Amway goods or related training materials would make you better off. Isn't it ironic that doing nothing makes you better off than Amway?  Staying home and watching TV is better than Amway because you won't lose money in doing so,  LOL

A second job where you actually receive a paycheck is a better alternative. While there's no hype and hopes of getting rich in 2-5 years, you can do much for your future by saving a portion of that paycheck each month. If you are young, this especially applies to you. But anyone can help their future by saving and investing. Even someone who panhandles is more likely to have more net cash than most Amway IBOs since most Amway IBOs make nothing or lose money.

Sure, some people do make money in Amway, and some make a lot of money. The problem is they make money by exploiting their downlines and those hopeful downlines basically have no hope. In other words, you profit by selling false hope and false dreams. Basically, you can gain wealth in Amway by being a conman. Can you live with yourself in order to profit at any cost? What the upline does is extract $100 or a few hundred dollars a month from a lot of people.  This comes in the form of PV/BV volume and the bonuses that come from it, along with sales of tools and functions, which have a high profit margin than Amway goods, which is why so many uplines emphasize the tools and functions.

I haven't even gone into the amount of time lost chasing prospects and attending functions. Your time might be the most valuable commodity that is lost chasing the 2-5 year dream. Ask yourself this question. Where are these diamonds who did the 2-5 year plan living in luxury and doing nothing? I have asked this over the years numerous times and not a single Amway defender can name someone and provide a shred of evidence that it's true.

Wednesday, March 13, 2024

A Random Observation?

 http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=192279&page=8


It's refreshing to see so many good people on this forum telling the truth about Amway. It looks like the pro-Amway shills here and on other sites are becoming increasingly outnumbered and desperate. I've read through this entire thread and think it is hilarious how many times the shill has to move the goal-posts or play word games to make Amway look like an amazing business opportunity.

I was originally introduced to Amway many years ago in my late teens by an uncle of mine. I attended a few of their seminars, and was impressed at first. But the whole thing started to seem ridiculous and unrealistic and so I didn't get involved any further. Also, I'm not that materialistic, so Amway's message doesn't appeal to me. I wish my uncle had been more skeptical.

My uncle was very devoted to Amway for a few years. He bought all their products(especially the tapes and books), tried to get others to buy them, and also tried to recruit all his family and friends into his new religion. He eventually lost money and friends and alienated himself from much of his family.

Already heavily in debt, he eventually fell for another, even bigger get-rich-quick scam shortly after quitting Amway (to Amway's credit, they don't threaten to kill anyone for leaving Amway). This one robbed him of his entire life savings. The scammers got away with it because they knew how to play him right (he met one of them through Amway). His wife divorced him soon after.

As if this wasn't enough, after making a modest financial recovery with his business over the course of several years, he loses it all to yet another scam. He had to borrow heavily from the few friends he had left since no bank would ever give him a loan, and almost no one in the family has anything to do with him anymore. I haven't seen him for 15 years.

One thing I wonder about my uncle is if all those seminars and inspirational tapes and books softened him up to fall for all those other scams he fell for after quitting Amway (he didn't have a reputation for being gullible before joining Amway, though he was never that bright to begin with). If I remember correctly, he tended to blame himself for failing at Amway, and may have never understood that it was a big scam or at least not a good business opportunity.

I still remember those crazy seminars and how they told everyone that joining the Amway cult will likely lead to yachts, exotic vacations surrounded by hot bikini babes, and shiny expensive cars, among other symbols of wealth. Everyone is told at the seminars and in the "tools" that they have all this unfulfilled potential, but to realize this potential we must avoid those small-minded "dream killers"(skeptical family members and friends).

The story about my stupid uncle is true. There are many other people out there just like him who have fallen for Amway and others MLMs. The few people I've met who claimed they were very successful at Amway usually seemed sleazy or I would find out years later they were up to their eyeballs in debt.

The person who said before that the people who regularly attend these seminars are mostly fools and misfits was spot on.

Tuesday, March 12, 2024

Shark Tank?

 Has anyone seen the show "Shark Tank" on one of the business/financial news channels?   I watch a few shows weekly and I find it interesting and educational at the same time, regarding starting a business and how to take it to greater levels.   

If you're not familiar with Shark Tank, you have a panel of investors with some bankroll.  They listen to pitches from upstart entrepreneurs and if the pitch/product is appealing, one of the "sharks" might offer to invest in the upstart business for a equity share in the business, or some product royalties, or both.   Oftentimes the sharks get personally involved and help boots the business since they will have made a significant investment at times.  The show is quite intriguing and sometimes you see brilliant young entrepreneurs who know their business and sometimes, you see folks who completely miss the mark.  

The panel of sharks, if interested, will ask pointed questions about the upstart business including patents, sales, investment of personal assets into the business, revenue projections and other important related questions.  People who cannot answer questions or are not sure of what they are pitching often hear "I'm out" from one of the sharks, or investors.  Now all of these investors are seasoned and experienced business people with the know how and support staff to take your business to new levels.  This is displayed when they show updates on previous investments where s start up is now a multi million dollar business.  

That brings me to the relevant question.  How would an Amway IBO fare on Shark Tank?   How would even a diamond be able to answer relevant questions from the panel such as retail sales, cost to acquire customers, etc etc.  My guess would be that IBOs would be laughed out of the room when the talk about real non-IBO customers came up,   When you think about it, the Amway opportunity is all about recruiting your customers to become downline who you will also exploit with tools and functions.  I can't imagine any Amway IBO, diamond or not, would be able to gain any traction at all in the Shark Tank.  And that's because the Shark Tank panel will ask real business questions which cannot be obfuscated by answering a question with a question or by changing the subject when pressed.  I suppose this is why no Amway person has ever made an appearance on this show, as far as I know.  But even if they did, the outcome would be very predictable.  

But as a side note, if any IBOs are reading this article, Shark Tank is a great place to learn about real business.  I would highly recommend it.  LOL



  


Monday, March 11, 2024

None Of Your Business (Nunya)?

 One of the things I heard as an IBO, and still witness today, is IBOs telling prospects that their income is none of your business, or "nunya".  That you can refer to the compensation plan and see that you are compensated for volume. That your effort will yield different results than their efforts. All I can say is what a load of baloney. If you are researching the Amway business opportunity and the person contacting you won't disclose financial details of their business, red flags should pop up all over the place. Sure, if your potential sponsor is new, they may not have much to share, but are they willing to share or claim that it's a trade secret?

Remember that your sponsor will receive a financial benefit from your purchases and/or sales for the life of his/hers and your business. Volume that you move, plus your downline volume will be a part of your sponsor's and upline's volume. For that kind of reward, you'd think that people would be open to sharing. Now I'm not suggesting you ask to see the sponsor's personal job income, but surely, you'd want to know what kind of time, effort and expenses you might expect, along with the kind of expected results that your potential sponsor may be experiencing so you can decide whether it's worth the investment of time and money, especially if you will be encouraged, or more like expected to purchase training from the upline.

If your potential sponsor has a downline, and has been around for a month or more, wouldn't you want to know what their results and expenses are? It's perfectly reasonable to ask and expect a response. Since Amway leaders often talk about duplicating, wouldn't you want to know what you would be duplicating? I wouldn't want to put in 12 hours a week plus a few hundred in expenses if the likely result would be a net loss. Now I understand that a new business might not prosper right away but what are the indicators that a profit is coming? If you have trouble selling and sponsoring downline, you will more than likely never make a net profit. If you are selling and sponsoring, but still not profiting, then what? Are the tools and training expenses eating up all your profits?

It is my conclusion that uplines and potential sponsors don't share this information because it would not be attractive to prospects. Most IBOs run at a loss, especially if they have tools and training expenses and they might be putting in a tremendous effort. We know that some diamonds have financial difficulty. We also know that some, possibly many diamonds make more money from the tools and training than from Amway. I believe that the Amway opportunity is a far cry from how it's presented with the mansions and sports cars. I believe the reality is a sad one. If you are told by your potential sponsor that their business income and/or results are none of your business, you should pack up your bags and run!