Your Upline Secrets?

One thing that I was unaware of as an Amway IBO was that our uplines were profiting from our tools purchases. I was in WWDB at the time and I was told very clearly that nobody made money from the tools, and in fact, I was also told that WWDB was a non profit organization. Both of these statements were bold faced lies told by WWDB leaders and they have never been held accountable. We were told that upline cared about us and our success, thus they spent their own money to fly to functions to teach us how to succeed.

Eventually, the internet amd other media made it impossible to cover up these lies and uplines finally admitted to audiences that they profitted from tools. However, it looks like they downplayed the magnitude of the tools profits. I believe some upline may have made most of their income from tools, especially leaders who may have fallen out of qualification (Amway says once a diamond, always a diamond). Now the upline admits they make some profits from tools, but there is still a great deal of secrecy in the tools business. What makes the whole thing ironic is that the uplines allegedly are not supposed to entice Amway prospects into joining by using the tools money as a draw, but at the same time, they are told that tools are vital to their success. I was told that nobody has ever succeeded without tools but I could try to be the first one. (Does that sound like tools are "optional?)

I wonder how many prospects or IBOs would be fired up about buying tools if they knew that their uplines might not currently be qualified at the level they claim to be, and knowing that the uplines will make a ton of money whether or not you make a cent as an IBO? Also, some uplines are shameless in pushing the tools on downline. Sure they might cut the newest guy a break and loan them some cds, but once that IBO decides to start building downline, they are likely to be told that a real business owner buys their own tools, or that a business owner needs to be a leader and purchase extra tools for their downline. It's a cycle that just keeps going because the people who could make a difference do not.

How would you feel if your upline is touting themselves as a financial genius, but in the background, their homes are foreclosed or they have financial difficulties? What if your upline touts their morals and you find out they are divorced or getting a divorce? What if your upline said Amway saves marriages? Your upline won't say they are perfect, but conversely, they should be held to the highest standards if they are using their status and touting morals as a means to be able to sell tools and make large profits.

Many prospects and IBOs don't know this, but I hope they take it to heart.

Where Are The Amway Millionaires?

I keep hearing from Amway IBOs that they believe that Amway has created more millionaires than any other company in the US. I call BS on that claim. I am not saying that Amway hasn't created any millionaires, obviously, the Amway owners are worth billions of dollars. But what the IBOs are apparently implying is that all of the Amway diamonds are millionaires. I'm sure there are some diamonds who indeed are millionires, especially if they are tenured diamonds, in particular the double diamonds and higher. But conversely, I believe that many high level diamonds are not millionaires. I believe it is just as common for a diamond to be in debt as it is for a diamond to be living large. I also believe that many diamonds did not accumulate their alleged wealth exclusively from Amway. If a diamond is in debt trying to show off a diamond lifestyle, they are likely to have little equity in their belongings, and possible in debt trying to "keep up with the Joneses".

The reason why this is an issue is because these big pins will stand on stage and show off excessive wealth and imply that it is their Amway income that pays for these mansions, sports cars, and in some cases, jets. In the US, I attended a function called "Dream Night" where these kinds of trappings are displayed, to the tune of the song "I wanna be rich". The diamonds would say that you can have what they have, if only you will do what they advise. These functions still go on today and I believe it is no different now than it was when I was an IBO.

Stanley and Danko's book, "The Millionaire Next Door" http://www.personalfinanceplaybook.com/2009/08/the-millionaire-next-door/

This book makes some very interesting points which I believe applies to Amway diamonds. I will outline the significant ones and I will comment below:

**Predictably, the data shows that most people who you believe to be very rich are not.

**High net worth individuals, statistically, tend to be people that live within their means. They don’t spend a lot of money. They don’t waste their money. They tend to be pretty frugal people.

**The authors point out that most of the richest people you know aren’t driving expensive luxury automobiles. That’s what the people who want everyone to think they’re rich drive.

Joe's commentary. The book does say that about 1/3 of millionaires acquired their wealth thru a J-O-B and saved and invested, but did mention that many millionaires were also un-extraordinary business owners, such as a pest control company, etc. But based on the points made by the book above, I can see where it is likely that diamonds portray a lavish lifestyle as a recruitment tactic, when the reality is they may be living very middle class lifestyles off stage, or may even be in debt. I have seen evidence of diamonds having their homes foreclosed and being in debt (Ruth Carter's book: Amway: Behind the Smoke and Mirrors). Recently, there was also a report that Triple Diamond Greg Duncan filed for bankruptcy. The report indicated that he could not make his mortgages, or something to that tune. Odd, because when I was in WWDB, some of the upline leaders said diamonds paid cash for everything because paying interest to the bank wasn't very smart.

My question is why IBOs continue to make up these claims? Try googling millionaire or Amway millionaire. There is nothing to indicate that Amway was responsible for creating the "most millionaires" of any US company. If this were true, wouldn't Amway use it as an advertising point? If you don't believe me, go and ask Amway yourself.

The Amway Warrior?

I received this comment by a fired up Amway and WWDB IBO two years ago. I think re-posting it now will be quite humorous. It might in interesting to note that I took "Bryant" up on his offer and friended him on facebook. After a week or two, he stopped responding to my comments and questions and a few months later, he unfriended me on facebook and apparently quit Amway. When I looked him up, he was not posting Amway stuff anymore and just reverted back to his "quitter" or Broke loser" lifestyle I am posting it for your reading enjoyment. BTW, I was downline of the infamous WWDB Duncans as an IBO. I wonder if Greg Duncan recovered from his chapter 7 bankruptcy in 2009?

Bryant Mxxxxx July 31, 2015 at 4:29 AM

Dear Joe,

First, wow do you sound like a quitter; have you ever dedicated yourself to anything? Sorry that was an attack at you, I’m new to WWDB, and I enjoyed reading your quitting words and how you inspired more quitters to quit. I personally have researched WWDB before I came to the WWDB group because I seriously thought it was Amway and I’ve been approached 5x by Amway. Guess being a cage fighter gives me a great personality.

I would also like to call you out on your line ups since I know the Duncan’s beside their children could never possible be your uplines. Brad is very selective on who he mentors and it is usually the non-quitters that he mentor, the diamonds and emeralds, My upline Fenton and Susie Eng are mentored directly by Brad and Julie.

Before I was a Dream Builder, I was chasing the money; I sold drugs, damn right, just like the cartel blood that flows thru my veins. I was proud to be a drug dealer, finally I was a cool person, and then I woke up and realized ever one fronts that they have money but no one really knows how to get it. I held a regular job, sold drugs and trained every day to fight in a cage. Wow my life was in utter chaos, then my best friend asked me to meet her sponsor and mentor, Jerry Liu and Fenton Eng (emerald mentor) so with one foot out of the door and my right ass check of the chair ready to bolt, I sat down and meet them. First there was never any offer made in fact I had an application process to go thru and win my mentorship which I am so glad and happy I fought for it. I guess we all come from different paths and what im really trying to say is I would love to sit down and speak to you face to face and prove that your wrong about world wide dream builder, I haven’t paid out a single cent and I’ve so far been receiving the Kate messages for free and haven’t need to buy a single thing, yes I will because that apart of this program.

Did you expect money to fall from the sky? If you would have listened to your mentor, you would have learned one of the key parts to this entire program. Without HARDWORK you get nothing. Hard work is the key that slipped past you obviously! I have permanently been changed by the world wide group and will defend WWDB with my dying breath that’s what it means to not quit and not give in. I would love you to meet ALL of Fentons teams, Las Vegas and Atlanta and Bellingham Washington. Everyone of them would look at you and shake their heads, you were in and I don’t understand how you could leave. Unless…wait for it….. you’re a quitter. Hmm I was tired of being a loser and a quitter to now I am a worldwide dream builder for life! Plus the Family Reunion blew my mind thank God I’m willing to sacrifice for my future, unlike some cooljoe who wrote this blog.
With love because we all make mistakes,

Bryant Mxxxxx find me on facebook I dare you!

Amway And The System?

Based on my experience in Amway, my blogging experience, and observations of other people who give financial advice such as real estate gurus who teach you to buy property with no money down, or others such as Robert Kiyosaki for that matter, all show testimonials of sucessful people. Obviously they do not show you the vast majority of people who try their systems and fail. They only show the best case scenario which might account of a fraction of 1% of the people who participate in their systems.

It is my informed opinion that whether it is Amway, WWDB, BWW, N21, real estate or the cashflow business, the vast majority of people who try these systems do not make any kind of significant income, if any income at all. Sure, some do, and those are shown as the possibilities. But if you watch infomercials, you will see in small print on the bottom of the screen, "unique experience", your results may vary. I believe that a similar message used to be at the end of Amway diamond recordings as well.

These systems in general do not work for various reasons. Many people simply do not have the acumen to work the system. Or the system has too many variables for the system to work, or the system calls for things beyond your control. For example, success in Amway generally requires you to sponsor others, something that is beyond the control of most people. Add in the lazy and people who are hoipng for a quick score and it is understandable that most will fail. But these systems are often set up where the majority simply cannot all succeed. Nowhere is that more true than the Amway business where the pyramidal compensation plan nearly guarantees failure for the lower level IBOs. People should also note that the common 6-4-2 Amway plan has 1 platinum with 78 downline. Most if not all of these downline will be losing money.

So what can someone do? Well, it may not be as sexy or attractive but a part time job and investing and saving might be something to think about. Even a part time business where you focus on selling products for a profit might work. It just seems prudent to avoid these "systems" as the primary beneficiary of these "systems" are the ones who directly profit from them. Do your due diligence!

The Road To Riches

When I saw the Amway plan, it was presented sort of as a road to riches. Yes, the presenter was careful not to say it was "get rich quick", but 2-5 years is relatively quick when compared with working 40 hours a week for 40 years as the business plan was shown to us. And while some exceptional people do achieve diamond, there is a trail of IBOs who suffer losses, some of them staggering. In our own group, I know of at least one couple who lost their home following upline advice, and another couple to ended up filing for chapter 7 bankruptcy. I must state that the bad advice leading to bankruptcy and foreclosure most likely came from upline leaders. I also know of a gal who quit her job to attend a function, faithfully following upline advice from WWDB. It took her a while to recover from that bad advice.

So what is the experience of many CORE IBOs? I'm not talking about those who "do nothing", but IBOs who actually make an effort. Well, if they do their 100 PV, then they are spending about $300 a month and dedicated IBOs will typically spend about $200 a month on average for tools. This is for a single person. A couple or family would be expected to do more, thus spend more. So for these 100 PV IBOs, they will expend about $500 a month and get back maybe $10. Of course if they were not in Amway, they would still have some expenses for household goods, but not anywhere near $500 a month.

Over the course of a few years, these expenses add up and can become staggering losses. Hard core IBOs might expend even more. The only way a rank and file IBO can gain relief is to sell products (which is difficult given the prices and the Amway name reputation) or to sponsor downline who wil then suffer some of the losses for you. It would be my estimate that an IBO might break even at about the 4000 PV level. However, at 4000 PV, you might have significant expenses associated with running a group, such as showing distance plans for your group.

Over the years, I would suspect that millions of IBOs have come and gone through the Amway opportunity, and probably lost billions of dollars. But many of those who lose money think they are successful, because many upline will edify those who buy tools, regardless of IBO results. After a few months, if your group and PV are not growing consistently, it is highly unlikely that you are headed for success.

IBOs and newbies, are you on the road to riches or financial disaster? Keep in mind that a net loss is not success, despite what you upline mentor may tell you.

Is Amway Your Hobby?

Many Anway IBOs get into the business with high expectations. They get in with oftentimes, a dream of early retirement, living a fabulous lifestyle, mansions, sports cars and "walking the beaches. In order to do this, IBOs are taught that they need to "plug into the system". So IBOs get on standing order, they attend all the meetings and functions, they read books and show the plan. They think these activities will make them rich. The sad reality is that it lines their upline's pockets.

But because the Amway business has so many handicaps and shortfalls, the IBO soon falls into the trap of "playing Amway". The IBO will do their 100 PV, either by self consumption or selling, or a combination of the two, and will continue to listen to the cds or tapes, and will continue to attend every meeting. When I was an IBO, our group had many who did not sponsor a single person, yet they were at all of the meetings and functions. These folks, in my opinion, had Amway as a hobby.

A hobby is something you do in your spare time, usually something you enjoy. For many people, Amway meetings are a social event. It is evidenced when some people say they enjoy the meetings, being with "positive people", and they have become nicer as a result of their involvement. While this may or may not be a side benefit of the functions and meetings, it is not relative to the bottom line of a business. A business exists to make money. If a business is losing money, expenses are usually cut.

If you have been an IBO for more than a month or two, have you actually sponsored someone? If the excitement of being a new IBO has not resulted in acquiring new downline, it is unlikely that you will ever have a downline. If you have been in the system reading books, listening to stnding order and attending functions and showing the plan, and you have no results, you have Amway as a hobby and not a business. Don't feel bad, sponsoring other IBOs is not a common or easy feat. But as a business owner, you should think about your involvement in the business and if you find you are participating in a hobby rather than running a profitable business, then you should decide whether or not you are accomplishing what you set out to do.

Are you running a business (to make money) or are you playing Amway?

Amway IBOs Critical Of Jobs?

One of the things that IBO leaders do quite often in their recruitment pitch for Amway, is to put down people's jobs. They criticize people's bosses and the fact that an employee needs to report somewhere to earn a living. They try to paint the picture of a job being compared to slavery. They do this apparently to make people feel uncomfortable with their present situation so they will be open to looking at the Amway opportunity as a means to make a living. They may call a job "just over broke" or "jackass of the boss".

So I will ask - What's wrong with a job? A job is not slavery. People apply for their jobs and they agree to a wage or salary in exchange for their services. Certainly, you can leverage a higher wage or salary if you have an education or a skill, such as being able to work in the construction field. A job ususally offers more than just a wage. A job often allows one to have benefits such as medical insurance, a 401K retirement plan, and some other benefits such as paid vacation and/or sick leave.

A recent site visitor bemoans concept of working for minimum wage, where a husband and wife would earn in the neighborhood of 30K if they both work full time at minimum wage. Of course, a high school student can earn minimum wage so two adults only able to generate that kind of income makes me think my site visitor is speaking of people with very little to offer an employer. Most people may start out as entry level, but earn more and more as they gain experience and can offer more to their employer. An employee might also be able to promote themselves if they can prove to the employer that they can manage more responsibility.

What does the average Amway business owner experience? $202 a month (gross)income (which is probably way above average)? Most IBOs as outlined in "the plan" earn about $10 a month and may have expenses such as standing order which will take away from that tiny profit. Thus an average business building IBO stands to net a loss. It is very easy to look at the math and make that conclusion. A dedicated IBO attending meetings and functions and buying the other tools will likely spend more than $250 a month on average to be on the system. Couples will spend more. And that doesn't include the funds spent to do your 100 PV.

So I ask again. What's wrong with a job? You have a net gain each and every month, be able to pay for your living expenses, and allow you to contribute to society by paying taxes. The average CORE IBO is a drain on the US tax paying society by spending money on standing order and functions and then deducting these expenses when filing their taxes. The only beneficiary is the upline leaders who sell standing orders and function tickets. If the IRS actually took IBOs to task, I'd be interested to see what kinds of deductions would be not allowed? I bet it would help the US treasury to recover all that money.