Tuesday, June 27, 2017

Amway Fruit On The Tree?

I had a good chuckle recently when some Amway apologists spoke about looking at the "fruit on the tree" as a way to confirm that various diamonds were successful. One commentator said his parents were broke and he looked at his diamond since the diamond apparently had fruit on the tree. I thought about this concept and I agree, that perhaps we should look at fruit on the tree. First of all, what is fruit? Is it pictures of lavish things or is it looking at bonafide and verified financial statements? How would you know if your diamond was wealthy just because he shows you a picture of a porsche? What if that same diamond was carrying credit card debt and was just creating an illusion of success? Impossible you say? There are verified accounts of diamonds having their homes foreclosed, declaring bankruptcy and other issues.

What if I posted pictures of yachts and a mansion and said Joe Cool paid cash for them? You'd say I was lying or making up stuff. And you know what? You'd be right. I don't own a mansion or a yacht or a Porsche. But when your diamond shows you these pictures, you whoop it up and accept that they are telling the truth. The only difference between them and me is basically our opinion on the Amway business. But think critically for a minute. Your diamond has a financial interest in keeping you fired up. Joe Cool is only interested in sharing information and real life Amway experiences so information seekers can find the truth.

IBOs and Amway prospects, please ask your upline platinum or diamond to show you the fruit on their tree. Ask them to see their (business) financial statements. This is actually a common practice in real business. When a friend of mine sold his business a few years back, he made three year's worth of income tax returns to show prospective buyers. He showed his business and personal tax returns. If someone is asking you to do business with them which will require your investment of time and money, you have every right to ask for information/actual evidence. If your upline won't share this information or evades your questions, why would you believe his slideshow?

As far as I know, not one single bigger pin has ever shown their business financials except for those who had their finances revealed in public documments such as a bankruptcy. In fact, if it made certain bigger pins look good, why wouldn't they want to "show their fruit". They certainly don't mind showing off diamond rings, fancy clothes, sports cars and the like. What many IBOs don't understand is that fancy cars and other toys is no evidence of fruit on the tree. For all you know the cars are rented and the diamond might be drowning in debt. You can also rent jewelry and sports cars.

It has been discussed that some diamonds may rent cars or fancy homes and try to imply that they own these items. Some diamonds, possibly many diamonds in the past have lied or embellished the truth about paying for everything in cash, including their homes and cars. They also at times, have given the audience the impression that these luxuries are all purchased with Amway income, and we know that many diamonds have had supplemental income from the systems, or other business ventures outside of Amway.

We also know that some diamonds are in debt, but simply try to portray an excessive lifestyle. (See Ruth Carter's Book: Amway Motivational Organizations, Behind the Smoke and Mirrors). Some diamonds may have a substantial income, but it doesn't mean they are financially free and able to live a jetset lifestyle that many portray. It is an illusion, possibly to be able to attract new prospects into the business. Do you really believe that you can live a diamond lifestyle on diamond income? DO the math. Even a half million dollar a year income after taxes and business expenses is nowhere near enough to buy mansions in cash. And keep in mind that only about 1 in 20,000 IBO ever reach diamond.

So yes, let us actually see the fruit on the tree. Where is the fruit?


Anonymous said...

This "Rick" has shown up here before to whine about how bad we all are, and how Joe Cool shouldn't be publishing this blog.

And yet if you go to his "Liberty Marketing" website, you'll see that the word "Amway" doesn't appear even once.

What's the matter, Rick? Afraid to tell prospective recruits what they're getting into?

Anonymous said...

Sorry -- this was supposed to be on "The Sad Reality of Amway?" thread. I hit the wrong button. Perhaps Joe Cool could switch it over.

Rick said...

LMAO Anonymous are you afraid to tell your real name or also your buddy blogger Joecool, more like Joe Blow. That particular webpage is a generic page to see if you are even interested in getting more info. If you check my linkedin profile I do mention "Amway".
I've seen my upline Emerald's financials and he's doing very well. As far as seeing others financials you have to earn their trust as a true friend. All of you are waisting your time if you think Amway will fall. All your theories and checkbook mentalities are really false and have nothing to back them up. Actually, Joe if you would put the time into building an Amway business instead of recruiting other losers to your blog, to complain about Amway, you would probably would be on your way to really succeeding. I can't wait until September when we get a 50% increase in the leadership bonus. That's the 4% going to 6%. Amway keeps adding more to the plan. Also, while we are talking about financials before you baffoons hit me with Amway has dropped in its world earnings, that's because China changed it's currency. We are still #1 in Direct Sales and the North American market actually grew 19% last year over the previous year. Just think Joe and Anonymous you could be tapping into that. Just saying.
Have a great life.

Joecool said...

Amway dropped from 11.8 billion to 8.8 billion. That's some serious decreases!
And sorry to tell you, it's not all because China changed it's currency, that's just the canned response your upline told you to give. How would you know that North America grew by 19% when Amway doesn't release sales information by individual markets?

Why would I want to build an Amway business? I own a house in Kailua Oahu and a rental unit. Try looking up how much those properties are valued at before you make ignorant comments. I'd say I'm already doing quite well sans Amway.

It's nice that Amway is so generous to increase some bonuses. But then again, those bonuses come from the pockets of your downline, not from Amway.

Nowhere on this blog have I stated or implied that Amway will fail. A sucker isbor every minute. That's why Amway is still around, although the heavy drop in revenue suggests that maybe more people are becoming wise to the scam.

So Rick, how much money did you lose in Away so far? Is that success right around the corner or do you have any fruit on your tree? Somehow I believe your tree is barren.

Anonymous said...

How about a straight answer, Rick?

Where did you get the information that Amway's sales in North America have increased by 19% over last year? Amway doesn't release information of that sort. They never have!

Did you make that improbable figure up? Or are you just parroting what your asshole up-line told you?

Amway North America is going down the tubes. You can't recruit easily anymore. All you can do is whine about "negative" blogs, and how you'd wish that they would stop.

If you actually were making any money in Amway, you wouldn't care what we say here.

And by the way, you're not supposed to be reading anti-Amway blogs on the internet. If your up-line finds out, you'll be in deep shit.

kwaaikat said...

>> [Rick said:] If you check my linkedin profile I do mention "Amway"

Maybe you do, but there's no way to check. Your "website" has no last name, and no link to LinkedIn.

>> Rick said:] Anonymous are you afraid to tell your real name..

I don't have a problem with people staying anonymous, but since you do, who are you? What's your last name?

John Doe said...

kwaaikat --

If you are interested in learning more about "Rick". Here is some interesting information.

Facebook page for "Liberty-Marketing.net: https://www.facebook.com/Liberty-MarketingNet-132830013503405/?hc_ref=SEARCH

Facebook page for "Rick Crook" (the irony of that last name): https://www.facebook.com/rick.crook1?hc_ref=SEARCH

Joecool said...

I went back to the thread in April of this year where Rick made his initial appearance. He was really upset at how my blog apparently gets people to read it and gets people to quit Amway! It's actually quite flattering that my blog has such magical powers!

As I said before, most IBOs are good people who are motivated to get more out of life, but they fall into the trap of thinking that Amway will deliver that for them. It might be interesting to see if Rick is still around in another 6 months. Amway stats suggest he won't.

Rick's Son said...

Thanks Joe Cool!

PS Dad, stop sending me photo shopped pictures of you in Hawaii. We all know you spent your "vacation" at the mall trying to hawk XS.

kwaaikat said...

"Amway stats suggest he won't (be around in 6 months)"

Joe Cool, this one just might be, but for the wrong reasons (in other words, reasons other than fruit). It appears he is one of the few who ends up becoming a lifetime hopeful hobbyist. On LinkedIn he says he has been involved in Network and MLM for 25 years (during most of which time he has held an unrelated job, employed at the postal service, presumably to earn a livelihood and to subsidise his expensive hobby).

The friend who knocks at my door from time to time is also a long term hopeful hobbyist (involved for more than 10 years, and hopping from one job to another, so it does not seem that there are too many results). Amazingly, he is quite outspoken on how jobs exploit people. He has a good degree, and is confident,presentable and well spoken, but sadly because he neglects his career, his student peers are far ahead financially.

The dentist who was denied tax deductions by the IRS was also involved for many years, incurring outrageous conference expenses, with no results (hence the tax deductions refused).

Joe mentioned the physician who has lost a month's worth of (high earning) income.

I am suspecting that many people let this hobby distract them from progressing in their career and quite possible personal lives. It means the real cost on a wasted opportunity is even higher than the standing orders, conferences etc. Let's not forget that a career can also lead to "owning your own successful business", if that is what one is after, amongst a host of other paths. I would suspect that in respect of "own successful business", the odds of making it through a career are actually higher than via the MLM hobby. I did. People (at least quite a few do) choose careers in fields that they have an interest and aptitude in. Accountants don't have to become people persuaders. Librarians don't have to become soap salesmen. Physicians don't have to become networkers. Either case there's non of the unhealthy total submission to another individual just because he was there first. Not even junior jobs have that.

If you want a hobby, the alternative possibilities are endless. Learn a new language. Fly drones. Learn proper photography, or pottery. Hike in the hills. You will also make good friends there, likely to remain friends if you are forced to abandon hiking. All of these will make you a more interesting person, and will have better odds in helping you along in life, or even starting a business. Also, you'll probably mention at a party that this is what you are doing, and if asked you will even disclose whichever details your listener is interested in.

If you want to "help people realise their dreams" or be successful. Again, there are more deserving causes.

If you want a number in a hat, just to have that license to dream. Not something I personally recommend, but you can gamble a small amount. The odds are similar and at least no time is invested. Rationally it does not make sense to me, but it makes more sense than MLM or specifically Amway.

So Joe Cool, if your blogs prevent one person to not get sucked in, and encourages one person who got suck in to get some perspective and not become a lifetime hobbyist, then I'd say it's more than worth it. I'm pretty sure it does. The frustration that Rick is expressing, clearly shows that he is encountering resistance amongst downline or potential downline, which he traces back to blogs like yours.

Eric Scheibeler in his book said afterwards there were small things that made him think, even if these did not sway him at the time. Perhaps it even makes Rick think.

Anonymous said...

The problem is that many people do not distinguish between a hobby and a vocation. And both of these should be distinguished from a job.

A hobby is just a personal amusement that takes up some of your spare time. It isn't done for profit, and it doesn't demand a huge amount of your discretionary income. Examples would be stamp collecting, or building bird houses, or small-scale woodworking.

A vocation (as the Latin origin of the word suggests) is a "calling." It is something that it is your destiny to do, because you are called either by God or by your heritage or by deep emotional commitment. It is what you were born to do.

A job is merely a means of making money to support yourself in the world, and it could be something you enjoy or hate. The issue isn't your feelings about a job. The only thing that is important about a job is whether it provides you with an acceptable income.

I don't include the term "career" in this list, because it's a weasel-word designed to give camouflage to what is just a job. "Career" is the word used by defensive people, or by pompous snobs, to talk about what they do for a living. Don't tell me about your "career." As soon as you say that word, I know you're a phony.

Yes, Amway could just be a HOBBY if the IBO simply tried to sell a few products to his friends and neighbors, and if he did it out of simple interest and not just to make a little money on the side. Naturally, someone in this position would also have to have a JOB to make it possible for him to live and pursue his hobby.

But the problem is this: Amway and its up-line want you to think of Amway as your VOCATION -- that is, as something that you have been "called to do" by a power or a destiny that must be obeyed. That's why so many of the people mentioned by Joe Cool and Kwaaikat are not disturbed by the fact that they aren't making any money in Amway. In a VOCATION, money is secondary to your religious obligation to follow your calling.

What would be ideal for a person would be to have a JOB that provides a solid income, and for that job to be just as enjoyable as a HOBBY, and for the individual to feel that he has been "called" to this job as his VOCATION in life. But that is really rare. A very successful actor who loves his work and who feels totally committed to acting as his life's purpose might be a good example.