Is The Amway Opportunity Like Gambling?

 Let me make a disclaimer right off the top so Amway defenders don't try to discredit the post without reading it. The Amway opportunity is not a game of chance. But I will go on to explain how and why the opportunity can be compared to gambling and why the diamonds can be seen as a casino or the "house".

In the Amway opportunity, the odds against someone going diamond are astronomical. Literally tens of  millions of people (or more) have attempted to build an Amway business in North America over the years and diamond club for North American diamonds (In Maui, Hawaii (some years back had 160 diamond-ships represented. Certainly, some north American diamonds may have turned down a free trip to Hawaii but I'm guessing that's not a big number.  Isn't that a perk of being a diamond? 

The odds are also stacked in favor of the diamonds. Casinos are not built by winners, but by the hordes of losers. Just as a diamond business is not built by having a foundation of winners, but layers and layers of IBOs who are losing. The Amway opportunity is simply set up that way. Look at your common 6-4-2 plan or whatever version your group uses. The newest or biggest layer of IBOs make very little and when you factor in expenses such as functions or standing orders, the losses can be staggering.

A diamond, like a casino will attract many young dreamers who think they can conquer the world and will get rich. They use bright lights and profile former winners just as Diamonds show off fancy cars and testimonies to lure in recruits. The newness of the opportunity gets you excited, just as someone walking into a casino might feel the excitement with the sounds of the casino. All you need is some effort and little luck, right? Sadly, that excitement is all too often replaced with the harsh reality that most must lose in order for there to be a few winners, both in casinos and the Amway business.

Like casinos and diamond uplines, there is much caring for active IBOs and for players who are spending their money in casinos. But once you walk out of the casino, there is no special treatment, just as an IBO who stops building a business or stops being core quickly becomes forgotten and shunned. In Amway, people who said they were lifelong friends were never heard from again once an IBO missed a few meetings. If you re-emerge, you will find the love again, just as you will get free drinks and possibly other comps when you start gambling again.

And yes, there are some exceptional people who can scratch out a nice living by gambling, but they are few and far between, just as there are diamonds, but diamonds also have thousands of people who wanted diamond but could not achieve it. Those who can finally make it usually have an exceptional blend of skill and a bit of luck. Some even cheat/lie in order to gain a bigger edge, both in gambling and in Amway.

Like a gambling "system", the Amway opportunity has "systems". In either opportunity, the system doesn't work for the masses. There are an exceptional few who can make it work. Except in gambling, most people understand that the odds are stacked against them. In Amway, many new IBOs are told that anyone and everyone can succeed when it simply is not true.

Can you fulfill your dreams by gambling or with the Amway opportunity? The answer is yes, but the reality is that few (A tiny fraction of 1%) will ever do so. Like casinos and Amway diamond-ships, both are built on the backs of those who lose, not on those who win.

Do Amway IBOs Judge People?

 One of the things that my upline taught, and I believe is still taught today in various groups is that winners join Amway and losers do not. Or that you were a winner because you were doing something to better your financial future and those who didn't were losers. or broke minded. Of course, the upline who said this had no knowledge about those who were not in Amway. Some of them may already have been financially sound or may have been doing something to better their financial future. I'm not sure why these uplines, who promote "positive", had to resort to calling people losers simply because they did not agree that Amway was the greatest thing since sliced bread. It's only positive if it's Amway related and anything non-Amway is negative. Anyone see a problem with this?

In many games or sporting events, there will be someone or a team that wins the game and someone or a team that loses the game. Losing a game doesn't make you a loser and certainly, a team that wins the game would not say the losing team were losers. Can you imagine a Superbowl winning team's coach taking the podium after a game and saying his team won because the other team was a bunch or broke minded gutless losers? That would never happen, yet we see that frequently in the Amway/IBO world. The owner of Amway, Rich DeVos had once said in a recorded message that just because people do not agree with you (paraphrased) about Amway, does not make them losers and that IBOs should not call people losers. I believe this has been crafted by upline to apply pressure to downline IBOs to "never quit'.

In all of this, people's jobs are also criticized. That a job stands for "just over broke" or "jackass of the boss" and other insults. Many IBO's goals and dreams consist of ditching their job so they can sleep until "the crack of noon" and live a life of luxury. Ironically, it is most IBO's jobs that continue to produce income so they can pay their bills and feed their family. It is also an IBO's job that funds their Amway and AMO expenses such as product purchases and functions and voicemail, etc. Without having a job, most people could not even join Amway or pay for any tools. Sadly, most IBOs won't make any money in Amway either, or will have to continue to work at their jobs. I do not believe that someone earning an honest living working a job is a loser. Ironically, many of the folks calling people losers and broke are not even netting a profit from their Amway business!

Yes, in this business or the sports world, there will be winners and there will be losers. The question is whether you are the one who is allowed to be the judge of who is and who isn't. I would also suggest that IBOs are completely shutting down potential future business by their behavior. What if I went to a store to purchase something but the item was not available on that particular day, so I don't purchase anything and leave. As I leave, the store owner says I am a loser for not buying something there. Will I go back? Very unlikely. If an IBO truly sees themselves as a store owner, all prospects should be seen as potential business, whether future or present. If your upline tells you that people not interested are losers, you should hand him a mirror. Or inform your upline that when you point a finger at someone, there are even more fingers pointing back at you.

Losers?

 One of the things that my upline taught, and I believe is still taught today in various groups is that winners join Amway and losers do not. Or that you were a winner because you were doing something to better your financial future and those who didn't were losers, or broke minded. Of course, the upline who said this had no knowledge about those who were not in Amway. Some of them may already have been financially sound or may have been doing something to better their financial future. I'm not sure why these uplines, who promote "positive", had to resort to calling people losers simply because they did not agree that Amway was the greatest thing since sliced bread.

In many games or sporting events, there will be someone or a team that wins the game and someone or a team that loses the game. Losing a game doesn't make you a loser and certainly, a team that wins the game would not say the losing team were losers. Can you imagine a pro football team's coach taking the podium after a game and saying his team won because the other team was a bunch or broke minded gutless losers? That would never happen, yet we see that frequently in the Amway/IBO world. The owner of Amway, Rich DeVos had once said in a recorded message that just because people do not agree with you (paraphrased) about Amway, does not make them losers and that IBOs should not call people losers.

In all of this, people's jobs are also criticized. That a job stands for "just over broke" or "jackass of the boss" and other blurbs. Many IBO's goals and dreams consist of ditching their job so they can sleep all day and live a life of luxury. Ironically, it is most IBO's jobs that continue to produce income so they can pay their bills and feed their family. It is also an IBO's job that funds their Amway and AMO expenses such as product purchases and functions and voicemail, etc. Without having a job, most people could not even join Amway or pay for any tools. Sadly, most IBOs won't make any money in Amway either, and will have to continue to work at their jobs. I do not believe that someone earning an honest living working a job is a loser. Ironically, the folks calling people losers are often not even netting a profit from their Amway business!

Yes, in this business or the sports world, there will be winners and there will be losers. The question is whether you are the one who is allowed to be the judge of who is and who isn't. I would also suggest that IBOs are completely shutting down potential future business by their behavior. What if I went to a store to purchase something but the item was not available on that particular day, so I don't purchase anything and leave. As I leave, the store owner says I am a loser for not buying something there. Will I go back? Very unlikely. If an IBO truly sees themselves as a store owner, all prospects should be seen as potential business, whether future or present. If your upline tells you that people not interested are losers, you should hand him a mirror.

The Millionaire Mentality?

 A comment left by an anonymous site visitor:

"I love Amway. I just don't understand why people have to be negative about it. I don't hurt or steal from anyone yet I make money. I'm not a millionaire as of yet but working towards that goal. It's called "millionaire mentality". Joecool, you will never succeed with penny mentality."

Joecool's commentary:

It would be my informed opinion that most diamonds do not have a millionaire mentality. If you see how they spend money and how they flaunt excessive wealth, I see people who could win the Powerball lottery and wind up broke. They might earn a nice income (even if it may come by lying and deceiving), but they spend it all, and possibly more by portraying the diamond lifestyle. In my opinion, the diamond lifestyle as portrayed in functions such as "Dream night" are not sustainable.  For this reason, we are now seeing evidence of this such as a triple diamond who was in chapter 7 bankruptcy proceedings, diamonds losing homes to foreclosures. We are seeing diamonds selling their mansions. Sure, they might be downsizing or liquidating their assets, but if these homes have been paid in cash as they claim, why sell them in a bad real estate market? Why not wait a few years?

In the past, I have posted some articles showing the traits and characteristics of millionaires. Many of these articles cite saving, investing, and living below your means. Many wealthy people drive regular everyday cars and live in the suburbs. They don't commonly have Porsches, and jaguars. And for the record, the average diamond income, as reported by Amway, isn't all that much when you factor in business expenses and taxes. So why do diamonds try to show off wealth?

I believe diamonds show off wealth because it is a way to attract recruits. Because the Amway opportunity has a high turnover rate, nobody can reasonably "walk away" from their business and have cash rolling in for long. Attrition would eat away your business in a matter of days or weeks. It is why I believe diamonds do not walk away from their businesses, because they can't afford to. The business requires constant attention or it will crumble faster than stake cookies.

Most IBOs are simply fooled into thinking they are developing into having a millionaire mentality. An honest question for IBOs. How do you even know if your upline diamond is a millionaire? Anyone, even a broke guy can wear a nice suit and show off pictures of mansions and sports cars. For that matter, how do you know if your upline diamond is currently qualified as a diamond? Amway doesn't release that information except for new pins.

In my opinion, diamond's displays of excessive wealth and luxury portrays something, but it's not the millionaire mentality.

The Real Scam?

 A lot of people come and go in Amway, but many of those who come and go don't even notice the scam. They get sold on what they believe is a business opportunity that they can make some money at, or at the very least save some money on products that they would normally buy anyway. If they do it right, they can possibly make some "real" money and with some had work, you can build it right and have the option one day of walking away from Amway and living off ongoing residual income from Amway. It sounds reasonable and therein lies the scam.

For years, I have challenged people to name 2-3 people, aside from the Amway owners, who joined, built the business "right" and was able to walk away and retire with ongoing residual income, enough to be financially free forever. Not a single person has been able to name and confirm that even a single person has done this. I believe it's all a lie and part of the scam. Amway's distributor force turns over about 50% each year. How can you build a residual income empire when half of your downline quits each year? I believe Amway diamonds trade their 9-5 jobs for the night shift. They work at night and into the morning hours because they are working to replace people who quit and to support downline platinums who might struggle or fail to re-qualify for that level. If upline says they are working for the love of their downline, I call BS on that. If walking away and enjoying life was an option, why hasn't anyone chosen it?

Now you could argue that a diamond's "work" isn't that bad, and they aren't reporting to a boss. And that would be true, but I imagine the pressure of churning people in and out to keep qualifying can be stressful in itself. If you live on an island like me, you can eventually have trouble finding new people to work with. In 1997 or so, there were a bunch of diamonds in Hawaii and they all moved to the mainland. Now I"m not sure why but my upline diamond was Harimoto, who loved the ocean and the beaches. Yet he moved to Washington state. I believe they needed new grounds to mine, just like gold miners.

The next part of the scam is how IBOs will tell you about Amway's generous money back guarantee. 100% they'll tell you. What they don't tell you is that the guarantee is only on some of the products and the sign up fee. The cds, books, voicemail and functions are not sold or run by Amway. And these expenses can be very significant over a period of time. IBOs and prospects need to know this. You can lose thousands and get back pennies on the dollar asking for a refund on the sign up fee and perhaps a few products. Another piece of the scam.

Also, IBOs and prospects are often shown only the very best case scenario (such as going diamond) but not told that your chance of being struck by lightning is much higher than your chance of going diamond, even though going diamond is not a random event. A real life and likely scenario is getting in and trying hard for a while, and then quitting with some business losses. At least if you know this and still try anyway, you will have done so with full disclosure.

Lastly, it's insidious in my opinion, for upline to tell you to trust them and to do as they say, and then turn around and tell IBOs that failure is their responsibility. That they didn't work hard enough or do thing just right. That sure isn't what they are preaching when recruiting you into the business. They are saying how sharp you are and how you're likely to tear up the business. But it's just another facet of the scam. I've outlined the parts of the opportunity that I believe are scams, but I'm sure it's not limited to my point of view.

Good luck if you read this and join anyway.

Artificial Intelligence View On Amway?

 Out of curiosity, I asked my Microsoft Co-Pilot AI (artificial intelligence) if Amway was a poor business opportunity.   The initial part of the response was how you can register as an affiliate for $55.   It goes on to speak about different levels in Amway such as affiliate or a higher level  where you recruit downline, etc.   It also mentions that income increases when you sponsor downline, creating a leadership group.  This is general basic knowledge for people somewhat familiar with the Amway opportunity and the details.

The interesting part is the discussion about the challenges and controversies surrounding the Amway opportunity.  

1.  Amway has faced criticism for its pyramid like structure where recruitment plays a significant role in earning income.  

While Amway was reviewed by the FTC in the past, they were found not to have qualified as an illegal pyramid.  However, this is not to say that Amway was exonerated or spoke of as a good example by the FTC, which is what some Amway IBOs and defenders like to spew on the internet.  Indeed, Amway was fined at one time for $100,000 for violating that 1979 ruling.  In this case, Amway apparently had ads that misrepresented income claims.

was amway fined in 1986 - Search (bing.com)

2.  The company (Amway) imposes strict requirements and sometimes unrealistic goals, making success challenging for many.  

For example, Amway has very strict rules about advertising and other factors that make it difficult to move products to the general public.  And if you have any disputes about these rules and regulations, you appeal to Amway, who gets to be the arbiter of these rules.  Can anyone really challenge and multi billion dollar corporation and win?  I find it highly unlikely, next to impossible.

3.  Amway affiliates cannot sell Amway products on platforms like Amazon or EBay, limiting their options.

So IBOs cannot use retail outlets or even ecommerce giants to move Amway products,  Thus, IBOs can sell person to person.  That is a restriction that is likely to hinder the opportunity to move a high volume of products.  I don't understand this rule because once an IBO makes a purchase from Amway, they get to restrict how that product is marketed to the public?  Maybe there's something I don't know about this, but you'd think Amway would want the market flooded with their products.   During the covid pandemic, online businesses like Amazon went through the roof and sales were booming.  If I'm not mistaken, Amway sales were lower or flat compared to pre-pandemic levels.  Amway had at one time peaked about just over 11 billion (I believe) but their sales and revenues has since dropped.  

And these restrictions are imposed by the corporation but doesn't include charging premium prices for generic in nature types of products, generally speaking.  If you remove any bias from your mind, take a look at what you can purchase from Amway for $100 and see what you can get from Costco or Wal Mart for similar products.  (Costco and Wal Mart don't sell Amway products).   Secondarily, the Amway name reputation has suffered from IBO lies and behavior.  For example, calling people broke or losers because they don't agree that Amway is a great deal.  All these factors add up to what the opportunity is:  A revolving door with high IBO turnover and the potential for business losses.  Is seems as if the longer you stay in and participate in the tools and training systems, the losses mount and become staggering in some cases.  

I know AI still needs to be scrutinized and double checked, but the AI response on Amway is correct, based on my experiences and in my own opinion. 

 

  

The "System"?

 Based on my experience in Amway, my blogging experience, and observation of other people who give financial advice such as real estate gurus who teach you to buy property with no money down, or others such as Robert Kiyosaki for that matter, commonly show testimonials of successful people. In the end, this is as effective as showing all the people who won the lottery. Focus attention on the people who won but ignore the millions of people who failed trying to accomplish the same thing. Obviously, they do not show you the vast majority of people who try their systems and fail.

It is my informed opinion that whether it is Amway, WWDB, BWW, N21, real estate or the cash flow business, the vast majority of people who try these systems do not make any kind of significant income. Sure, some do, and those are shown as the possibilities. But if you watch infomercials for these "systems", you will see in small print on the bottom of the screen, "unique experience", your results may vary. I believe that a similar message is used at the end of Amway diamond recordings and audios as well. The diamonds basically present only the best-case scenario to prospects while ignoring the most likely results.

These systems in general do not work for various reasons. Many people simply do not have the acumen to work the system. Or the system has too many variables for the system to work, or the system calls for things beyond your control. For example, success in Amway generally requires you to sponsor others, something that is beyond the control of most people. Add in the lazy and people who are hoping for a quick score and it is understandable that most will fail. But these systems are often set up where the majority simply cannot all succeed. Nowhere is that truer than the Amway business where the pyramidal compensation plan nearly guarantees failure for the vast majority of lower level IBOs. The 6-4-2 plan shows 79 IBOs with 1 platinum. Thus, even with everyone in the groups earning a bonus, (practically impossible), you have 1 in 79 achieving platinum, which is the level where you allegedly begin to break even or make a small profit, depending on your level of commitment to the "system".

So what can someone do? Well, it may not be as sexy or attractive but a part time job and investing and saving might be something to think about. Even a part time business where you focus on selling products for a profit might work. It just seems prudent to avoid these "systems" as the primary beneficiary of these "systems" are the ones who directly profit from them - the upline diamonds.

All Show, No Go?

 Back when I was in college, many young folks were car enthusiasts and tried to fix up older classic cars like a 67 Camaro for example. Some folks would just buy a new car and add on some trinkets to make the car stand out in a crowd. But one of the sayings we had for cars that looked nice, but whose engine had no power, was "All Show and No Go".

Many Amway IBOs and Uplines are very likely to be "All Show And no Go". They talk a good game. They make claims and try to show off fancy toys and things, allegedly obtained with success in Amway. But shine the light on the truth and you will likely see a different picture.  It is why you often saw a parking lot full of beat up cars at functions.  But everyone wears a suit and a nice smile.

On a bigger scale, I believe the major function called Winter Conference, formerly called "Dream Nite", is one where diamonds would show videos or slide shows of mansions, yachts, sports cars, jet skis, golf club memberships, shopping sprees and other kinds of fabulous wealth, all the while proclaiming that it is through Amway that all of this can be achieved. Do as we do, and you will have what we have, is what I heard, and I believe it is still the case today. But despite these claims, more and more evidence is available to show that diamonds may not be what they seem.

Ruth Carter's book (Amway Motivational Organizations: Behind The Smoke And Mirrors) exposed a diamond who had a nice, income, but lived beyond their means and were actually heavily in debt. We have also seen diamonds whose homes were foreclosed. Some of these diamonds may have spoken about paying for everything in cash, including their homes. Diamonds quitting (busts the lifelong residual income myth doesn't it?), diamonds moving to a new MLM, etc. It all points to one thing which is clear in my mind. The diamond lifestyle is not what it is portrayed to be, in many cases. Now I am not saying that a crown ambassador or some other tenured diamonds are not wealthy, I'm sure there are some who are, but they are few and far between. They are the exception and not the rule, in my opinion.

It's all show and no go. Like the Texan with the nice hat with no cattle, or the nice car with a weak engine. It's a show, or a facade for many. They give the appearance of success in order to attract new recruits but behind the scenes, might be living in debt, and/or living from bonus check to bonus check. Let the buy beware!

The Math Behind The Systems?

 It is my observation that people who join Amway usually end up losing money in the end. They may get involved to make a few bucks or because they are mistakenly led to believe that they will become millionaires in Amway in 2-5 years. I know my sponsor convinced me that we would be millionaires in a few years. These folks who recruit new IBOs into Amway are often associated with a "system" such as Worldwide Dreambuilders (WWDB)or Network 21 (N21). These system promoters, often diamonds, may mislead the recruits by showing them pictures of mansions or other luxuries, implying that they attained these goods with their Amway business. In many cases, it is a deception, especially when we know for a fact that some diamond leaders who proclaimed that they only make cash purchases, had their homes foreclosed. Without the hype, I am sure there would be fewer sign ups. But what is the evidence?

It is simple. Amway reports that the average active IBO earns about $200 a month in gross income. This average includes diamonds and other higher end IBOs. I believe if you calculated the median, the average would be much lower.

But what makes IBOs operate at a loss is the system expenses. The system generally consists of voicemail, standing orders, cds, functions, books and other materials. An average business building IBO might spend an average of $250+ a month or so on these expenses. Amway defenders like to decry the amount, but there are couples who would likely spend more and IBOs who must travel by air to functions would spend more. Single IBOs who buy only the minimum might spend a bit less. Some IBOs with abusive uplines might spend much much more than $250 a month on tools. I believe my former sponsor spent easily an average of $1000 a month on average. (I am from Hawaii so the average cost of functions is greater due to long distance travel)

Thus if the average IBO earns $200 a month but the same average IBO spends $250 a month on tools, the average active IBO is losing $50+ a month, with lower level IBOs (i.e. 100 PV) would lose more.

Look at a group of 100 IBOs at 100 PV. (This is just a model). If a 100 business building IBOs average $250 a month on tools, they as a group would expend $25,000 a month on tools and functions. Their volume would be 10,000 PV, or about 30,000 BV. This would generate about $7500 in bonuses per month. Thus, this group spent $25,000 to learn and be motivated while the group splits up $7500 a month in bonuses. The platinum would get the lion's share of the bonus but most of the rest of the group will suffer net losses. As the group grows, the bonus may grow, but so will their expenditures on tools. Keep in mind that a group of 100 IBOs spitting up $7500 would be an average of $75 each. It is the diamonds that drive up that average. The math bears it out.

The only way the group can make money as a whole is to avoid participation in the tools altogether and to actually sell products to non IBO customers. The evidence is right here with simple math. The systems do not work because the cost of the system is likely to consume all of the Amway generated bonuses and more. I gladly challenge anyone to explain in detail how this post is not reflective of the reality of being in Amway and a system such as WWDB or Network21.

The facts speak for themselves.

Most Will Fail?

 Most IBOs fail. That is not a wild guess. That is a fact. Failure would mean doing nothing or trying hard and not making a net profit equal to minimum wage for the hours expended. Amway supporters will argue that many IBOs do little or nothing, and while that might be true, even the remaining IBOs who work hard, still find little or no success. The system is set up that way. If you see a diamond "walking the beaches" as the cash rolls in, that means someone is putting forth the effort to make that happen. It is the downline IBOs who purchase Amway products and tools that allow these diamonds to enjoy what they portray as success. By the way, does anyone actually know one of these diamonds who are retired and doing nothing while cash rolls in? 

We also know that some diamonds overhype their success. There has been evidence that the diamond lifestyle is often not what people think it is. If you could truly earn residual income by the bucketload, why do diamonds quit, resign, lose homes in foreclosure proceedings, and even wind up in bankruptcy court? One could argue that some diamonds are failures. The diamond lifestyle is an illusion created by upline leaders as a means to entice recruits. I would venture a guess that many diamonds are living in debt or struggling to make ends meet. 

Many Amway zealots and apologists try to make ridiculous claims comparing a company owner to a diamond. The big difference is that a company owner has employees who get a regular paycheck. These employees generally wanted the job and probably applied for the work. And if and when an employee leaves, there are other applicants who are willing to step in and do the work. Thus, the business continues to meet their demands and continues to profit. 

In the Amway opportunity, the IBOs spend money purchasing products, and then upline leaders expect these same folks to spend even more money to learn how to be motivated to do the Amway business. But in reality, if IBOs made profits, that would likely be sufficient motivation to run their businesses. Because it is hard to find enough (suckers) prospects to join the business and fork out cash while they lose money, other IBOs have resorted to trickery, deception and outright lying at times, in order to attract potential downlines. This has damaged Amway's reputation. 

The 6-4-2 system ensures that the majority of business builders must "do the work" to uphold their platinum, who (probably) barely earns a net profit. And then you need 3 or 6 groups of IBOs losing money in order to maintain an emerald or diamond. Amway has revealed that less than 4% of product moves to non IBOs. The absence of non IBO customers nearly guarantees that most IBO groups will lose money or make very little. Most IBOs are destined to fail. And it is not necessarily the IBO's fault. The system itself comes with many flaws which most IBOs cannot overcome, even for those who put forth much effort. It is why most IBOs fail. It is why I hope prospects will find and read this information before making a final decision to sign up or not.

Just Make More Money?

 One of the things my (WWDB) upline frequently told us, was to "just make more money". This was about how our lives are impacted by rising prices of things. For example, a friend of mine who works for a gas company has said the price of gas in the US is likely to keep rising until it exceeds $6.00 a gallon. Your Amway upline will probably just say you need to make more money by working your business harder. My upline certainly did.

Now for most IBOs, you are likely losing money due to the "system" consisting of books, meetings, standing orders, and functions. You cannot simply "make more money" just because you want you. There was a time when I had that mindset, because it was taught by WWDB leaders. Amway was supposed to be the answer to that problem, but for most, the Amway opportunity ends up being the reason for more debt rather than a way for people to make more money. You are programmed to think you just earn more money to solve financial issues, if only you will "be core" and work your business hard. Sadly, most hard working IBOs will end up with "less money" because of the advice of their trusted "mentors and business coaches".

Ironically, in WWDB (my former LOS), some of the leaders and mentors may have been exposed as frauds as some of them experienced financial problems, including the chapter 7 bankruptcy of a triple diamond and some diamond home foreclosures, thus exposing them as liars and frauds as many of these very leaders stood on a large stage claiming that WWDB diamonds pay cash for everything and that people who make loans are "stupid". Makes you wonder about the integrity if such leaders. These leaders are for the most part, still teaching this garbage today.  Why didn't these diamonds heed their own advice and "just make more money"?   When you break it down into smaller pieces, you can see the utter hypocrisy of these diamond leaders who can't practice what they preach.  And to think masses of rank and file IBOs pay good money to hear their BS teachings.    

You may think earning more money is the simple answer to many of your problems, but you are unlikely to solve these problems by attending functions and listening to standing orders.  How do you make more money when functions and standing orders cost money but produce no income?  

Are Upline Diamonds "Swindlers"?

 One of the things touted by many upline leaders as the "key to success" is CORE. I have outlined the elements of CORE here:

1 - Show the Plan
2 - Retail the Products
3 - Tapes/cds/audios
4 - Books
5- Functions
6 - Accountability
7 - Counsel with Upline (Be teachable!)
8 - Buy 100% of your own products
9 – Communikate = Voicemail

In these nine steps, only #2 may actually net the IBO a profit, but these steps are not emphasized in many groups. In all the other core steps, you either spend time and/or money doing things that do not produce income for your business. If you, as an IBO spend most of your time in non-income producing activities, guess what? You will suffer losses. It is no wonder nearly all IBOs lose money, they are taught to spend most of their time in activities that do not produce income!

Imagine owning a brick and mortar store where you open the store for one hour a day. The rest of the day you are reading books, listening to tapes/cds, and paying to attend seminars and listening to voicemail messages. Oh, and in addition to opening your store for an hour a day, you don't advertise except for word of mouth. Could you survive in business? I think not. Amway now advertises, but you are not Amway, you are an independent business.

So, can an IBO make money by spending most of his/her time in non-income producing activity? I think not. This important fact too often goes unnoticed by Amway IBOs who blindly listen to and follow upline "advice".  It's really sad as IMO, diamonds are basically running a cult like operation with the objective to simply extract as much cash as possible from the faithful and believing downline as possible without giving away the secrets.  In other words, the diamonds are a bunch of cheap lying crooks and swindlers.  That might be hard to understand for hard core dedicated IBOs, but that is a fact.  If you disagree, please feel free to dispute what I have posted here.

Diamonds Teaching About Debt?

 Getting out of debt sounds like good advice. On the surface it is because people should not be racking up consumer debt or committing large sums of their income for cars and other items they simply cannot cannot afford. But what does it mean for an IBO? I know my former upline taught our group to get out of debt. However, I believe my former uplines had self-serving intentions when they taught this. Let me translate what I believe they meant:

"You should not have any debt because it would affect your ability to buy more PV and tools. If you have debt, it affects my cashflow"   This is if you read between the lines if what the diamond is saying, in my informed opinion.

Ironically, for many, maybe most IBOs, although taught to get "get out of debt", the bottom-line result is more debt. There is more debt because the cost of products and tools begin to mount. How many families actually spend $300 a month (approximate cost of 100 PV) on household products? And then to add onto that expense, IBOs who are trying to be "successful" need tools which cost anywhere from $150 a month up to more than $500 a month depending on whether the IBO is married, single and the level of commitment. Thus, IBOs are now spending at least several hundreds of dollars or more that they never spent before.

Most IBOs, especially new IBOs, generally earn less than $50 a month. In fact, $50 a month income in this business would make you quite exceptional. Most IBOs earn less than $20 a month. With that kind of income and with the expenses I listed above (tools = voicemail, books, standing orders, and functions), nearly all "serious" IBOs operate in the red and never turn a profit. The only way an IBO can turn a profit is to sell Amway products like crazy (which I have never witnessed) or to sponsor enough downline to absorb the losses for them. The only true success stories are the ones who sell the tools.

The reason why I believe that my former uplines (who are still in WWDB and apparently teach the same things now as they did back when I was an IBO) are teaching self-serving advice because although they said to "get out of debt", they made an exception to this and said it was perfectly okay to go in debt to attend functions or to buy more standing orders. IBOs were also told to do "whatever it takes" to get to the next function or to buy more tools. It is why I witnessed some crosslines go bankrupt, more than one couple lost their homes following upline advice. And these couples were told they shouldn't worry because they can pay cash for their homes when they go diamond. Another apparent lie told by WWDB leaders, especially those who had their own homes foreclosed.

Let's be perfectly real here. If you join Amway and participate in the system consisting of voicemail, books, standing orders and functions, you are far more likely to get into debt or increase your debt rather than making money and getting out of debt. The math bears it out if you are willing to look at it objectively.

Statues Of Amway Diamonds?

 I often heard the saying in Amway: "there are no statues of Amway critics". To that I would respond, there are no statues of Amway diamonds either.

I often wondered what the Amway opportunity would be without any critics. Most likely Amway IBOs would be blissfully building their business while blindly following upline advice to over consume PV and Amway related tools and functions. If you are in WWDB or another Amway related teaching system, have you noticed that your upline is often tracking how many audios/cds you are sending downline and how many people you have attending functions? This is done because upline is trying to plan and makes plans for their projected income. Do the math on a major function and you will easily see what I mean.

Many Amway supporters think that critics exist only to tear down others or to bash the Amway opportunity. I see it completely opposite. I believe that Amway critics are important for IBOs. Without any opposing voice, IBOs would mistakenly believe that they are in Amway utopia except that eventually, they would notice that they are losing their shirts. An opposing voice is a good thing to bring up issues that you may not have thought of. Imagine what you might be like without the ability to feel pain? You might have injuries or illnesses that would go undetected which could eventually kill you. But you upline probably teaches people to "avoid negative". Avoiding excessive negative might be good but avoiding all negative is like an inability to feel pain.

When I was an IBO, our upline (and many others apparently) claimed that nobody made any profits from the system (voicemail, books, tapes/cds. functions). Without any opposing voices, this might still be happening. IBOs had no way of knowing. Upline just told bold lies and got away with it. To this day, none of these "awesome" leaders have even been held accountable for the lies. The diamonds simply ignored it. Sure, they now speak about making some income from tools, but there is little transparency about how you actually qualify for a share and how much you get when you qualify. Why is that?

Critics have also pointed out that many IBOs are taught to ignore important facts such as their profits versus losses. Some IBOs are taught "fake it till you make it" or they are taught to "buy from yourself", both of which are ridiculous from a business standpoint. But without an opposing view, IBOs would never question upline. In fact, many IBOs are taught to avoid all negative such as don't watch the news or read the newspaper. In other words, upline wants you to be apathetic and only read and intake their Amway propaganda. This is why some people accuse Amway leaders of running a cult.

Think about this. I believe that having opposing views are vitally important for IBOs to consider. Valid criticism is good for IBOs who are serious about building their businesses. Constructive criticism is a good thing. If you consider good criticism as negative, just remember: As far as I know, there are no statues of Amway diamonds.

Success Speaks Volumes?

 I heard a great comment from a commentator on a related Amway blog. Basically, he said if Amway IBOs were so successful, people would just naturally be attracted. And that's true! Where I live, the local electric company is an attractive place to work with a good salary and benefits package. When there's a handful of openings, you might get as many as 6,000 people applying for a handful of these positions. When the federal government hires for the post office, you get thousands of applicants for a handful of jobs as well.

But IBOs have to justify their positions. The common ones are how Amway products are concentrated, or they have magical ingredients in their vitamins. It is my position that if these products were so good and the opportunity actually produced successful IBOs, there would be no need to be deceptive about the products or opportunity. The products could easily be marketed. In fact, customers would be seeking IBOs to find the products, and there would be lines of people waiting to see the opportunity.

Instead, IBOs themselves are the primary consumers of Amway products. Many IBOs are deceptive when inviting people to see the Amway plan. Some prospects are outright lied to when recruited for the Amway opportunity. The curiosity approach is still used by many, because mentioning "Amway" is more likely to get you funny looks than interest. If what I am writing is not true, why do IBOs need to deceive people? Why don't some IBOs open their books and display the financial success they claim to have? Why so secretive? Why aren't there hoards of new diamonds and emeralds each month? Instead, you mainly hear of the Amway growth in foreign countries. Most likely because the Amway name and reputation has not yet been soiled as it has in the US and Canada.

In the US, I see primarily the same old diamonds who were in control of the functions and systems from more than 12 years ago. In fact, factoring in diamonds who quit or dropped out, I believe there are fewer diamonds now than when I was an IBO. Some of these diamonds also had some apparent financial difficulties. The opportunity is far from how it's promoted. Success speaks louder than words, and where North American Amway success is concerned, the silence is deafening!

If Not Amway, Then What?

 One of the humorous things that Amway IBOs often bring up is that someone who sees Amway in a critical eye should bring up viable business or income producing alternatives. I mean if someone prevents you from falling over a cliff, they should have warned you and given you alternatives right? If I recognized you getting were conned by a conman, I should find viable financial investments for you before warning you of the potential scam you are about to walk into right? It sounds completely ridiculous, but Amway IBOs have actually made those comments on this blog and some other Amway related websites.

Well, let's explore a few of these alternatives anyway just for fun. How about you stay home and do nothing? For most IBOs, you would be better off financially than committing your time and resources into Amway's products and their ineffective training materials and functions. If you are really dedicated to tools, sending your upline a check for $50 or $100 monthly and not buying Amway goods or related training materials would make you better off. Isn't it ironic that doing nothing makes you better off than Amway?  Staying home and watching TV is better than Amway because you won't lose money in doing so,  LOL

A second job where you actually receive a paycheck is a better alternative. While there's no hype and hopes of getting rich in 2-5 years, you can do much for your future by saving a portion of that paycheck each month. If you are young, this especially applies to you. But anyone can help their future by saving and investing. Even someone who panhandles is more likely to have more net cash than most Amway IBOs since most Amway IBOs make nothing or lose money.

Sure, some people do make money in Amway, and some make a lot of money. The problem is they make money by exploiting their downlines and those hopeful downlines basically have no hope. In other words, you profit by selling false hope and false dreams. Basically, you can gain wealth in Amway by being a conman. Can you live with yourself in order to profit at any cost? What the upline does is extract $100 or a few hundred dollars a month from a lot of people.  This comes in the form of PV/BV volume and the bonuses that come from it, along with sales of tools and functions, which have a high profit margin than Amway goods, which is why so many uplines emphasize the tools and functions.

I haven't even gone into the amount of time lost chasing prospects and attending functions. Your time might be the most valuable commodity that is lost chasing the 2-5 year dream. Ask yourself this question. Where are these diamonds who did the 2-5 year plan living in luxury and doing nothing? I have asked this over the years numerous times and not a single Amway defender can name someone and provide a shred of evidence that it's true.

A Random Observation?

 http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=192279&page=8

It's refreshing to see so many good people on this forum telling the truth about Amway. It looks like the pro-Amway shills here and on other sites are becoming increasingly outnumbered and desperate. I've read through this entire thread and think it is hilarious how many times the shill has to move the goal-posts or play word games to make Amway look like an amazing business opportunity.

I was originally introduced to Amway many years ago in my late teens by an uncle of mine. I attended a few of their seminars, and was impressed at first. But the whole thing started to seem ridiculous and unrealistic and so I didn't get involved any further. Also, I'm not that materialistic, so Amway's message doesn't appeal to me. I wish my uncle had been more skeptical.

My uncle was very devoted to Amway for a few years. He bought all their products(especially the tapes and books), tried to get others to buy them, and also tried to recruit all his family and friends into his new religion. He eventually lost money and friends and alienated himself from much of his family.

Already heavily in debt, he eventually fell for another, even bigger get-rich-quick scam shortly after quitting Amway (to Amway's credit, they don't threaten to kill anyone for leaving Amway). This one robbed him of his entire life savings. The scammers got away with it because they knew how to play him right (he met one of them through Amway). His wife divorced him soon after.

As if this wasn't enough, after making a modest financial recovery with his business over the course of several years, he loses it all to yet another scam. He had to borrow heavily from the few friends he had left since no bank would ever give him a loan, and almost no one in the family has anything to do with him anymore. I haven't seen him for 15 years.

One thing I wonder about my uncle is if all those seminars and inspirational tapes and books softened him up to fall for all those other scams he fell for after quitting Amway (he didn't have a reputation for being gullible before joining Amway, though he was never that bright to begin with). If I remember correctly, he tended to blame himself for failing at Amway, and may have never understood that it was a big scam or at least not a good business opportunity.

I still remember those crazy seminars and how they told everyone that joining the Amway cult will likely lead to yachts, exotic vacations surrounded by hot bikini babes, and shiny expensive cars, among other symbols of wealth. Everyone is told at the seminars and in the "tools" that they have all this unfulfilled potential, but to realize this potential we must avoid those small-minded "dream killers"(skeptical family members and friends).

The story about my stupid uncle is true. There are many other people out there just like him who have fallen for Amway and others MLMs. The few people I've met who claimed they were very successful at Amway usually seemed sleazy or I would find out years later they were up to their eyeballs in debt.

The person who said before that the people who regularly attend these seminars are mostly fools and misfits was spot on.

Shark Tank?

 Has anyone seen the show "Shark Tank" on one of the business/financial news channels?   I watch a few shows weekly and I find it interesting and educational at the same time, regarding starting a business and how to take it to greater levels.   

If you're not familiar with Shark Tank, you have a panel of investors with some bankroll.  They listen to pitches from upstart entrepreneurs and if the pitch/product is appealing, one of the "sharks" might offer to invest in the upstart business for a equity share in the business, or some product royalties, or both.   Oftentimes the sharks get personally involved and help boots the business since they will have made a significant investment at times.  The show is quite intriguing and sometimes you see brilliant young entrepreneurs who know their business and sometimes, you see folks who completely miss the mark.  

The panel of sharks, if interested, will ask pointed questions about the upstart business including patents, sales, investment of personal assets into the business, revenue projections and other important related questions.  People who cannot answer questions or are not sure of what they are pitching often hear "I'm out" from one of the sharks, or investors.  Now all of these investors are seasoned and experienced business people with the know how and support staff to take your business to new levels.  This is displayed when they show updates on previous investments where s start up is now a multi million dollar business.  

That brings me to the relevant question.  How would an Amway IBO fare on Shark Tank?   How would even a diamond be able to answer relevant questions from the panel such as retail sales, cost to acquire customers, etc etc.  My guess would be that IBOs would be laughed out of the room when the talk about real non-IBO customers came up,   When you think about it, the Amway opportunity is all about recruiting your customers to become downline who you will also exploit with tools and functions.  I can't imagine any Amway IBO, diamond or not, would be able to gain any traction at all in the Shark Tank.  And that's because the Shark Tank panel will ask real business questions which cannot be obfuscated by answering a question with a question or by changing the subject when pressed.  I suppose this is why no Amway person has ever made an appearance on this show, as far as I know.  But even if they did, the outcome would be very predictable.  

But as a side note, if any IBOs are reading this article, Shark Tank is a great place to learn about real business.  I would highly recommend it.  LOL

  

None Of Your Business (Nunya)?

 One of the things I heard as an IBO, and still witness today, is IBOs telling prospects that their income is none of your business, or "nunya".  That you can refer to the compensation plan and see that you are compensated for volume. That your effort will yield different results than their efforts. All I can say is what a load of baloney. If you are researching the Amway business opportunity and the person contacting you won't disclose financial details of their business, red flags should pop up all over the place. Sure, if your potential sponsor is new, they may not have much to share, but are they willing to share or claim that it's a trade secret?

Remember that your sponsor will receive a financial benefit from your purchases and/or sales for the life of his/hers and your business. Volume that you move, plus your downline volume will be a part of your sponsor's and upline's volume. For that kind of reward, you'd think that people would be open to sharing. Now I'm not suggesting you ask to see the sponsor's personal job income, but surely, you'd want to know what kind of time, effort and expenses you might expect, along with the kind of expected results that your potential sponsor may be experiencing so you can decide whether it's worth the investment of time and money, especially if you will be encouraged, or more like expected to purchase training from the upline.

If your potential sponsor has a downline, and has been around for a month or more, wouldn't you want to know what their results and expenses are? It's perfectly reasonable to ask and expect a response. Since Amway leaders often talk about duplicating, wouldn't you want to know what you would be duplicating? I wouldn't want to put in 12 hours a week plus a few hundred in expenses if the likely result would be a net loss. Now I understand that a new business might not prosper right away but what are the indicators that a profit is coming? If you have trouble selling and sponsoring downline, you will more than likely never make a net profit. If you are selling and sponsoring, but still not profiting, then what? Are the tools and training expenses eating up all your profits?

It is my conclusion that uplines and potential sponsors don't share this information because it would not be attractive to prospects. Most IBOs run at a loss, especially if they have tools and training expenses and they might be putting in a tremendous effort. We know that some diamonds have financial difficulty. We also know that some, possibly many diamonds make more money from the tools and training than from Amway. I believe that the Amway opportunity is a far cry from how it's presented with the mansions and sports cars. I believe the reality is a sad one. If you are told by your potential sponsor that their business income and/or results are none of your business, you should pack up your bags and run!

I Didn't Work Hard Enough?

 I believe there's a gigantic myth that people who ultimately fail in Amway simply didn't work hard enough, or didn't put in enough time, and ended up quitting too early. Based on personal experience and observations of others, I truly believe that to be NOT true. Now I agree that many IBOs do little or nothing, but generally, these folks don't complain, and their losses are generally limited to the sign up fee or kit. Most do not seek refunds, file complaints and simply chalk up the loss as a learning experience.  

I myself, put in some months of very dedicated work towards building a business. I had a decent sized group and was headed for platinum. But the fact of the matter is that even though my group was growing, I wasn't making a net profit. I seriously doubt that any of my downline made a net profit, primarily because of the business and tools expenses. I drove the miles, I showed the plan, and I attended all the meetings and functions. I did what I was advised by my upline. My net profit at 4000 PV was little to nothing with a net loss when all the business expenses were factored i such as gas money, functions, standing orders, etc.  

My upline also did a lot of work, and he put in the hours, drove the miles and attended everything. He told me his net profit was not any of my business. (If you hear that, it's a huge red flag). I suspect my upline and sponsor also broke even or lost money despite working very hard and doing what they were advised to. I later read the assessment made by the Wisconsin attorney general Bruce Craig, who examined the tax returns of (I believe it was platinums/direct distributors) of IBOs in his state and they averaged a net annual loss of $900. While the study is a bit dated, the business has not really changed except that there are more expenses and tools associated with the business today, than back when the study occurred.  

I also question the validity of Amway defenders who claim that people did not work hard enough or did not run their business properly. I seriously doubt that anyone has done a comprehensive study of people who actually made an effort to build an Amway business, to determine why they may not have the success they desired. However, I can make my own conclusions. Many IBOs are taught to buy from themselves with little sales. They're taught to buy tools, even when they aren't making progress in the business. People who are struggling in Amway are often told that they need to sponsor more people, show more plans. (A struggling business opens new stores to improve business?).

In my opinion, hard work and success in Amway have little relationship. Sure, there is work needed. But working hard doesn't assure you of anything. You need to be able to develop a following. Just working hard has nothing to do with long term sustainable success. There are plenty of examples of hard workers who lost money. What I believe happens, is that IBOs get excited, get started and contact people and show plans. But Amway has the reputation of "pyramid" or "scam" and people quickly get discouraged and stop building the business. Those who try to sell Amway goods find that a month's supply of multi vitamins ($80) double x is a tough sell, or $50 cases of bottled water. They also get discouraged and quit.  

Only those who can somehow recruit and replace those quit end up having a chance to grow their group large enough to sell them tools, which then makes selling Amway products less important. But I don't buy for a minute that people simply do not succeed in Amway primarily because they don't work hard or smart enough. I challenge anyone to prove that a lack of work is the reason for Amway failure. The system is designed for only a few to succeed. Examine the 6-4-2, there is 1 platinum and 78 downline, and that's assuming everyone "did some work".

IBOs fail in vast quantities, but not because they don't do enough work.

Joecool's 4000 PV Business?

 I wanted to give people a glimpse into what it was like at the 4000 PV level and what my experience was. Although Amway and WWDB apologists will claim this doesn't happen, or that it doesn't happen anymore, I have reasons to believe that very little has changed in WWDB since I was an IBO. The only major difference was that we did call in and product pick up back then.  Currently, everything is done online and shipped to your home or designated address.  Apparently, some WWDB leaders still talk about buying homes in cash and teaching the same old stuff.  

How many hours per week did I work? I would say up to 30 hours a week was spent on business related issues. Granted, product pick up consumed an entire afternoon and evening, generally on Thursdays. I would have to call in my order to the platinum on Wednesday night and then pick up the stuff on Thursday afternoon. Then I had to rush home and distribute the stuff to my downline. My upline platinum was not good at filling orders so it was a real pain. I'd say pick up and associated paperwork cost me maybe 8 hours a week. One good benefit today is that Amway issues the bonuses. In the old days, you as an upline had to do so. (This is an area where I agree that Amway made good progress) I did hear though, that WWDB still has call in and pick up for standing orders and such. If this is true, then they undid the progress that Amway had made. Also, as a up and coming leader, my platinum expected me to absorb some of the cost of returned tools, such as absorbing losses if someone on standing order quit. (Brad Duncan cut a true north tape at the time that basically said IBOs absorb the cost of standing orders for downlines who quit)

As a 4000 pin, I had to show the plan or attend plans for my frontline, if the platinum was showing the plan. I'd say 4 nights per week we showed the plan for a downline or a downline in depth. Of course, after the plan, we might "hang out" with downline and have some night owl teaching. Some people call this association or whatever. Depending on the length of the drive, this might take 3-4 hours 4 nights per week. Sometimes it was shorter when you had no shows.

We counseled with downline and upline. I spent some individual time with my upline and also with downline who wanted one on one time to get ideas on how to improve their Amway business. We looked over their group parameters and of course, tools flow. There was a WWDB counseling sheet for this purpose. Looking back, I'm not sure what this really accomplished except for the big pins to know which leaders are selling the most tools.  I guess in the end, tool sales were the focus of the big pin because they made a significant portion of their income from these sales.  To say otherwise, would be a big lie, in my opinion.  

Then we had open meetings and functions. One local function each month and generally one or two open meetings where a diamond or emerald would show the plan. Of course, my sponsor (platinum) did not feel right unless he augmented our function with his own night owl meetings. We also had three long distance functions on the mainland (I'm from Hawaii). These functions were (at the time) called Leadership, Family Reunion and Free Enterprise day. Being from Hawaii, these functions cost me, as a single, at least $1,000 or more for each trip because it was airfare during peak travel times, hotel, rental cars and the function ticket. I hate to think what couples paid.

Because of my status as an up and coming leader, I had the privilege of attending special meetings where our diamond would teach or show house plans. I even had the honor or driving the diamond to a house plan. Damn, how can anyone live without such an honor?

For my troubles, I had a business at 4000 PV, with eagle parameters. I was considered a "mover and shaker". Lots of people knew me and my sponsor wanted so badly to break a downline platinum. He sat down with me one afternoon and told me I could really push to platinum and ruby easily if I would only ditch my girlfriend (fiancee' at the time). He told me that he would ditch his wife if the upline diamond told him to do so. He said a single (ruby or higher) could easily attract a lot of eligible women. It was after that meeting when I decided to quit.

I had reached 4000 PV. I was making very little or losing some money because of the tools and functions. I did not see prospects of making money even at platinum and now my upline wanted control of my life. I told my group the truth and all of them quit except 1 or 2 of them who were brainwashed enough to stay involved. That was my story and I have no regrets about my decision to quit. I truly hope this story helps a prospect or a current IBO.  

If you want to surrender control of your life to a self serving upline, regardless of making profits or not, then Amway might indeed be the business you are seeking.  It wasn't for me.

In The End, Your Upline Is A Car Sales Person?

 Our Amway group (WWDB) edified people who bought extraordinary amounts of extra tapes/cds, extra function tickets and made superhuman efforts to get to functions. Looking back, I remember an IBO who was edified for coming all the way to a family reunion function in Portland Oregon when he was diagnosed with terminal cancer. The speaker said he could have been miserable spending time at home but here he was making a difference in people's lives. WTH? I once wrote a post about how IBOs think they are saving the world and helping people when in reality, the masses of IBOs are only "helping" their diamonds to attain material wealth by purchasing function tickets, voicemail, standing orders and other materials. While people are doing community service, IBOs are sitting in functions and rah rah meetings.

I would agree that some training and information can be helpful for new IBOs, but I do not see any value in a never-ending supply of cds and an endless number of meetings and functions. The very thing (support materials) that uplines claim is your key to success is the very thing that nearly guarantees business building IBOs will have financial struggles. Our upline wanted IBOs to be out of debt, which is good, but they would also say in the same breath that it was okay to go into hock if it was to attend functions or to purchase additional support materials. Sadly, many IBOs do not see through this self serving advice.

Most people, including myself are very wary when we deal with car salesmen. We are wary because we know that the salesman is out to make money off of us and will try to sell us every option in the book. Thus, we negotiate and reject the car options that we don't really need to or. Guess what? Your uplines are like car salesmen except that they sell you different options such as premier club, standing order, book of the month, function tickets, voicemail, open meeting tickets. Just like a car buying customer, taking all the options maximizes the car salesman's commission and the car dealer's profit. Buying all the support materials increases your upline's profits. Imagine the car salesman telling you that the extended warranty was vital to owning the car. You'd think twice about it, yet uplines will tell you that functions are vital to your Amway business and many IBOs buy it hook line and sinker. I hope this analogy will encourage IBOs to think of support materials as options on the car. You don't need any options to make the car work. Just as you don't really need support materials to buy and sell Amway products, and to get some downline to do the same.

We are wary of car salesmen. In my opinion, downline and prospects should be just as wary of uplines who promote tools as "vital" to your success in Amway. Keep in mind that a sponsor is obligated to help train any downline, regardless of whether they are on the system or not.

Prosperity Preachers?

 One of the things I often thought odd as an Amway IBO was how our upline would keep teaching us that the Amway business was all about "helping people". Somehow, our upline felt that showing someone the plan or talking to them about the business was helping someone. That is because our upline felt that everyone was doomed for financial failure if they didn't join Amway. Of course, nothing could be further from the truth now that I am looking back. In fact, I would have to say that building the business and purchasing tools was the CAUSE of financial disaster for some of my fellow IBOs. I remember reading about more than one home foreclosure and a couple of bankruptcies.

It's like IBOs held some dark secret and they could save the world by sharing this secret with prospects. So the theme of many voicemails (Amvox at the time) was about how IBOs in the group were saving the world by helping people. I used to wonder how we were helping people when we basically only "helped" IBOs who wanted to build the business. If someone declined to join, they were forgotten. Our upline said we threw them a life preserver, but they rejected it, so we are moving on. it was often compared to a church activity where IBOs are saving souls. I actually found this extra weird because we were often taught that we could give the church money in the future ($10,000 checks) and we could serve in ministry after we were "free". I find this ludicrous now, but at the time, we were told that this was delayed gratification. After I left Amway, I spoke to the senior pastor of the church, and he opined that Amway was harmful to many because it simply held too many empty promises. In other words, they promote big dreams and wealth, but very few ever attain any success, for whatever reason. The pastor said the reason for the low success was not relevant. The fact that it was rare to see success was enough to conclude that Amway was not a good opportunity.

In fact, some diamonds can be seen as prosperity preachers. They speak about wealth attained through Amway when in reality their wealth may come from other sources, such as tools income, yet they falsely promote Amway as their primary source of success. Then they bait and switch IBOs and tell them that the tools system is the only way to succeed, all the while profiting handsomely from the tools. They then justify their conflict if interest by claiming that IBOs are helping people and/or doing God's work by joining Amway. I believe many IBOs are giving false hope and promises to prospects as taught by upline leaders. All the while they themselves are losing money while thinking they are supporting a noble cause. I hope they awaken before it's too late.

No Negatives, Amway Positive?

There's always been some debate between critics and Amway supporters over an issue regarding a WWDB function called 'Dream Night". A WWDB IBO reported that the function was sold out but would not disclose the amount of a Dream Night ticket. He later posted an article saying that he was sorry for being "negative". Now as a former IBO from WWDB myself, I was taught to be only positive, We were told that we have too much negative in our lives and that we need the positive. But there's a difference between being positive and being "Amway" positive. For example, if you got sick and caught a "cold", they would say they caught a "warm".  I thought this was a bit bizarre, proclaiming the opposite, as if that will change things.

Now I agree that having only "negatives" in our lives would be detrimental. That eventually, we would be worn down by only negative. But conversely, the teaching of having only positive in your life can be equally damaging. I recall an old Twilight Zone episode where a guy allegedly dies, and he thinks he went to heaven as a man in white came to him and offered to grant him what he wanted. He asked for beautiful girls and to be a winner in gambling. Well, the man could never lose a single bet. He won every single time, and he had girls all over him. He found it to be no challenge and found life so mundane and predictable that he asked the man in white if he could lose once in a while or be challenged. The man in white basically said "no" and the man (I believe his name was Rocky) Rocky, said how come heaven was so lame (not verbatim). The man in white proceeded to tell him "what makes you think you're in heaven" and laughed incessantly while the Twilight Zone music ended the show.

Now being positive and having a good attitude is a good idea and probably good for your business, but having only positive and shutting out all negatives is a ridiculous thing, and it seems as if WWDB leaders are still teaching it. What happens if your business gets audited? You tell the IRS man you can't speak to him if it's not "positive news"? What if you go to the doctor? You tell him don't let you know what's going on unless it's positive news? If there's a natural disaster in your town, you turn off the news because it's not "positive"? What if your body could not feel pain? Would that be positive for you? It might but the reality is that not feeling pain or having zero stress is likely to be detrimental to your health. It's a fact that people need some degree of stress in their lives. Too much or too little can actually cause you problems.

In my informed and experienced opinion, I believe that some Amway and WWDB leaders teach you to shut out negative in your life is because lots and lots and lots of people have negative experiences and things to say about Amway and WWDB. If you doubt me, ask about Greg Duncan, Dave Shores, Brad Wolgamott, Dean Kosage and some others. Ask your sponsor or your upline what happened to these folks. If they tell you nothing or that it's negative, I challenge you to google search and find out for yourself. If your upline still denies it or says you should shut out negative, maybe you should find out what they are hiding by shutting out all negative in their lives?

Having only positive in your life is probably "weird". Is that what you want to be?

The Hard Reality"

 One of the things that keeps some Amway IBOs going is the "hard reality". What I mean by that is for some IBOs, once you have been in Amway for a while, it can be hard to quit. You were possibly recruited with dreams of lifelong residual income and walking on all of the exotic beaches of the world. Retiring young and spending that time with your wife and family, and Amway friends. To quit means an IBO would have to face the reality that these dreams will not come true, at least not with the Amway business. The fact is that the Amway opportunity probably would not have delivered those dreams anyway. Even a diamond more than likely cannot afford those dreams. In fact, I would estimate that most diamonds, if they flaunt some excessive lifestyle, are near broke or in heavy debt as a diamond income cannot sustain a jet set lifestyle, save for a founder's double diamond or something similar. I believe the prominent WWDB triple diamond bankruptcy (in 2009 - WWDB Diamond) shed a lot of light into the finances of an upper-level pin and it wasn't as impressive as I would have thought.

The triple diamond who filed for chapter 7 bankruptcy made about half a million dollars annually from Amway. That's a great income and more than most people earn, but seriously, a half million dollars income is not going to allow you to buy mansions paid for in cash, or a fleet of sports cars. After paying taxes and business expenses, I'm not even sure someone with that kind of income even lives a worry free life of leisure. And we're talking about a triple diamond, not your average run of the mill regular diamonds who I would safely assume, earns much less than a triple diamond.

But what really is the hard reality? It's working hard only to drift between 100 and 500 PV. It's finally sponsoring a new IBO only to have a downline quit. It's talking to people about Amway and getting laughed at or getting rejected. It's your upline or sponsor pushing you to do more. Possibly your upline is one who questions your manhood if you aren't working hard enough. It's your upline or sponsor reminding you that a winner doesn't miss functions, especially the major ones. It's staying up late for team meetings or night owls when you need a good night's rest to do your job the next day. It's driving the miles to show a plan, only to have your prospect not show up. It's having to be deceptive about what you are doing. It's skipping functions with family and friends so you can be "core" to the Amway business.

As IBOs, do you see any of this? I saw some of this during my involvement. While I have not been an IBO in some years now, I still see many testimonies and comments by more current and even some active IBOs to indicate that a lot of this still goes on. While Amway defenders will deny it, I see no reason why any of this would have changed over the years since Amway has made no significant changes to stop abusive uplines. If Amway did make any changes, they are not immediately apparent, and the continuous string of comments and testimonies do not confirm that any clean-up has been done.

For active IBOs or prospects, these are the hard realities that may be attached with the Amway opportunity. Much of it is because of motivational groups such as WWDB, but if you are seeing these traits in your group, ask the tough questions. If you happen to decide that the Amway opportunity is not for you, take heart! There are other ways to achieve your financial goals and dreams and there are more efficient ways out there. Sometimes, quitting something that isn't working is often a wise business decision, and sometimes you can lose more by not quitting. Good luck in whatever you decide.

Amway Versus Costco?

 One of the things I frequently heard as an IBO sitting in meetings and functions was a comparison between the Amway opportunity and Costco.  The comparison made was that Amway was sort of like a buyer's club, similar to Amway, we were told.   I guess to the uninformed, and to the Amway faithful, it probably made sense.  The thought was that you pay for a membership and in return, you get to purchase goods and wholesale, which saves you money.  Amway and Costco right?   But when you look at it a bit closer, Amway is not described anywhere as a buyer's club, nor does Amway promote themselves as such, unless there's something I completely missed about Amway's disclosures.

Let's look at value since this is often brought up as well.  The diamond or speaker would often joke about how you go to Costco, and bring home 5 gallon buckets of laundry detergent, or a gallon of peanut butter, or whatever else you were looking to purchase.  The speaker used to joke about "stack em deep and sell em cheap".   Then the speaker would go on to say something like Amway sells in large bulk, but in Amway, you can buy eaches, or single products such as a regular bottle of shampoo and not the 64 ounce bottles.  Of course, the speaker never mentions that the 8 ounce bottle of shampoo from Amway costs nearly the same as the 64 ounce bottle from Costco.    Then there's the concentration story they use.  But seriously, how concentrated is their stuff that 8 ounces can outlast 64 ounces, even if everything else is equal?

I might add that if you give good reviews about Costco to friends, they typically agree, and most people are already members.  In contrast, the same friends may not be so enthusiastic about Amway.  They might tolerate it and might even buy stuff from you if they are your good friends, but in the end, most people do not see Amway and Costco in the same light.  Also, I have never heard anyone even say that Costco was like a pyramid scheme or some kind of scam.  And Costco doesn't sell you training in order for you to be able to learn how to shop and Costco.  That alone makes Costco a better deal, IMO.  

One big line that upline used, was how you got paid for shopping through your own Amway business.  Of course, in order for you to get paid for shopping through your own business, you needed to reach a minimum of 100 PV, which is roughly equivalent to $300 (USD).  If you reach that magical 100 PV, you get a 3% bonus, which is roughly and typically $10 or so.  In contrast, I could use a cash back credit card and get a percentage back even if I spend only $10.  Sure, if I spend $300 at Costco, my cash back reward might be only $3-6, but then again, I go to Costco when I want, if I need stuff.  Amway's bonus structure requires that you achieve 100 in a calendar month or you go back to 0 and start over again next month.

Another facet which I enjoy myself, is investing in Costco.  I own 50 shares (currently trading about $758 per share as of today, March 4, 2024).  I bought those shares last year and because Costco had a great year and was flush with cash, they paid a special dividend of $15 per share.  Also, Costco stock has been on a roll, producing more than a 49% gain in 2023 and is on pace to get there again this year.  For these reasons and more, I find Costco to be a superior choice.  While Costco is not a business opportunity in itself, you could probably buy and sell certain products for a profit.  That's why so many small business owners shop at Costco to buy supplies for their stores and restaurants.  

The other argument I've heard from Amway apologists in regards to Costco, is that Amway can make you a millionaire.  But I've challenged this claim with a question to those making the claims.  Show me with reasonable evidence, that someone in Amway has a net worth because of the Amway business and not from other sources of income or resources, not including the Amway owners.  The apologists will come back naming all kinds of diamonds and higher up pins, but they have no idea of how much they made and how much of a net worth these folks have.  Thus, it's an empty claim.

I'll end on a funny story.  An Amway apologist told me that his upline makes more money taking a crap in the morning than I make in a full year.  So I offered to wager him $1000.  I did the math.  I was generous and said let's assume the diamond earns $5,000,000 a year.  And dividing 5 million by 2000, which is the number of hours most full time workers put in, in a year.  That diamond would make $2500 an hour.  2500 x 2000 = 5,000,000.  So let's assume that diamond spends a full hour taking a crap in the morning, he would make $2500.   That person never bothered to post on the forum again after the math was shown to him.  

Costco is superior to Amway in many many ways, in my opinion.

  

  

 

Freedom?

 Financial Freedom! That was one of the major battle cries when I was recruited for the Amway business. You gain control of time and money by creating residual or passive income. That is true financial freedom. You wake up at noon, no job, and just do whatever you please, whenever you please. I remember the speaker saying that broke/unemployed people also had freedom, but it was different because they were broke and could not afford to go golfing or do other activities that required money on a regular basis.  Or you might have someone rich but spends 60-80 hours per week working to earn that level of income.

I am assuming that this is still the case for many IBOs. Of course, upline leaders may toss in a disclaimer that you don't get rich quick as an IBO, but the pitch apparently still contains the financial freedom and residual income theme, based on my experiences with IBOs. IBOs still think they will be rich. Also, 2-5 years sounds like "get rich quick" to me.  Most prospects and current IBOs assume that diamonds are incredibly wealthy, often without actually doing the math to make a determination on their own.  Instead, they tend to believe the speaker at meetings and functions, who have been built up by the downline faithful so they carry a degree of credibility with the audience, even if they may not have earned that credibility. 

But hey, financial freedom would be a great thing, don't get me wrong. Who wouldn't want to be 35 years old with enough cash to never have to work again? I mean I could spend some time imagining how fun that would be. It would also be fun to imagine what you would do with all the cash if you hit the power ball lottery as well. But for the starry eyed IBOs, I simply have a few questions for you to ponder. A few realistic questions that you should be asking yourself. The answers to these questions will tell you a lot.

1. Who in your group or upline truly has achieved financial freedom? Have you seen their financials or simply a display of wealth such as mansions and fancy cars? Mansions and fancy cars could just be a massive pile of debt. Not too long ago, there apparently were diamonds who had their homes foreclosed, and a triple diamond who was in bankruptcy proceedings. Find out if anyone in your group/upline has actually achieved the success that they are using to recruit you. Also, if they are financially free, why do they work at function after function? Traveling and speaking might not be a traditional job, but it is still work, nonetheless.

2. Even if you find someone who is retired and golfing everyday because of Amway residual income, ask yourself what the likelihood is that you will be able to achieve the same results. If diamonds are still working, what chance do you have of success if you are new or experienced in Amway, and have few or no downline. More than likely, your chance of winning the lottery will be greater than your chance of achieving a significant residual income from your Amway business. Also, I don't know of any Amway retirees who built their business once and walked away with any significant residual income from Amway. Do you?

Mentors?

 In the Amway business, many active IBOs and prospects are advised to trust upline. To think of upline as a coach or a mentor. These upline mentors or coaches are supposed to have your best interest at heart and they will guide you to success if only you will be open to learning, or "teachable" if you will. Many uplines, including my former uplines used to coin the term "copy" or duplicate. If you can do that you will be successful. Even the simplest of people can copy. The upline may crack a joke about getting thru school by copying. Thus, many IBOs follow exactly what their upline advises them to do.

But then uplines turn the responsibility away from themselves. Many Amway defenders will also claim that downline should not simply follow the advice of upline. They may make a ridiculous claim that standing orders and functions contain advice that must be discerned. That information is like a buffet. You pick and choose what you need and discard the rest. If you are a new IBO or prospect, let me tell you that is a load of guano (crap) that is being heaped on you. Your upline is touted as having experience and wisdom in the Amway business, which is why you are paying good money for voicemail, books, cds, and functions. So why would their advice be something you pick and choose? How would a new IBO know what to pick and choose?   If you believe that BS, then I guess it is what it is.

Imagine hiring a guide for a trek in the wilderness. The guide is supposed to be an experienced outdoorsman, likely an expert. So, if he recommends that you eat certain plants or fruits, you trust that he is going to guide you right. Imagine eating something that made you sick to your stomach, only to have the guide tell you that he just points out plants and fruits and you have to discern which is good for you and which is not. You would fire the guide and tell everyone you know not to use that guide anymore.

But here we have these "systems" such as Network 21, WWDB or BWW that have been "guiding" IBOs for many years, and yet in some cases, and the number of diamonds are negligible. Sure, there are many new platinums, but many tool consuming platinums have been found to be losing money or making very little money for their efforts. What's more, it would appear that Amway is losing ground based on sales. One can reasonably guess that any new platinums that break are simply replacing the volume for a platinum that no longer exists or a platinum that no longer qualifies. My former upline diamond appears to have all new qualifying platinums from the time I was in the business and here's the kicker. My former diamond had 6 downline rubies. As far as I know, none of these rubies are qualified as platinum anymore.  How do you "walk away" from Amway when you can't retain your downline leaders?

Uplines also program their downline to take responsibility for the failure. Thus, you have IBOs who did everything that was asked of them, only to fail. Yet these IBOs often blame themselves for their failure. It is my opinion that former IBOs who did everything asked of them only to fail should file a formal complaint against their LOS with the better business bureau. Amway defenders like to think that a lack of formal complaints means that the system works when clearly, there is no unbiased substantial evidence to suggest that the system works. It looks like some succeed in spite of the system, not because of.

The catch in all this is uplines skirting responsibility for the outcomes of those they "mentor" and profit from. IBOs should ask if upline really cared about their success, why do you have to pay for any help that you receive from your upline diamond?  Buy a standing order, upline profits.  Buy voicemail, upline profits.  Attend a meeting or function, upline profits.  Read the book of the month, upline profits.  Mentors generally don't charge those that they are helping.