One of the ways that upline diamonds would put down jobs was to toss in the phrase that a job was simply trading hours for dollars. As if it were demeaning to have a job where you got paid for your time. I believe it's all relative. Being that many IBos are young and maybe working in more entry level types of jobs, then yeah, your hours wage might not be that great. If you earn say $10 an hour, then you might be struggling financially and it may take time before your skills and knowledge increase to a point where your experience is worth more money. What if you had a job paying $1000 an hour and earned $160,000 a month? Is that a lousy deal trading hours for dollars? I think not!
Conversely, having a business can be good or bad also. If you have an Amway business earnning less than $100 a month and you spend $200 on functions, standing orders and other training and motivational materials, then you are losing money. You would be better off working for free. That is still a better alternative than working a business where you are losing money. I think most people agree that a platinum group typically has a 100 or more IBOs. Thus a platinum is in the top 1% of all IBOs. I have heard that the platinum level is where you start to break even or make a little profit, depending on your level of tool consumption. If platinums are barely making a profit, then the other 99+% of IBOs are likely losing money. How much is that worth per hour?
I think uplines cleverly trick IBOs into thinking that a job is bad. Trading hours for dollars, afterall, sounds like some kind of indentured servant of sorts. But in the end, what matters is your bottom line. If you are an IBO with little or no downline, and/or not much in terms of sales to non IBOs/customers, then you are losing money each and every month if you are attending functions and buying standing orders. Your 10-12 hours a week of Amway work is costing you money! But if you spend 10-12 hours a week, even at minimum wage, then you might be making about 300 to 350 a month gross income. After taxes, you make about 250 to 300. At least trading hours for dollars gets you a guaranteed net gain at the end of the month.
Uplines trick you into a "business mentality" where you think that working for a net loss is just a part of business. IBOs should realize that a business promoted as low risk and no overhead should be one where you can profir right away. Instead, IBos are taught to delay gratification, or to reinvest any profit back into their business in the form of tools and functions, which results in a net loss. If that's the case I would choose trading hours for dollars.
Remember, trading hours for dollars is not a bad deal if you are making enough dollars per hour. And even those who make less, are better off that those who "run a business" but end up with a net loss. It's all relative and hopefully, this message will help new or prospective IBOs who are being enticed to join the Amway business opportunity. Good luck to those with jobs and those with businesses. You can be successful either way. Remember that!
27 comments:
I agree amway uplines do not understand the value of a job. As you stated earning dollars gives you rewards variable depending on age experience etc. Jobs guarantee you a reasonable living standard, free time evenings, weekends and several weeks vacation. Also you may have perks, health cover and pension rights. Most people can retire mid sixties and live 20 years with guaranteed income. Other major benefits is the recognition and pleasure from working and the contacts with fellow workers. All this should not be undermined. I am not against amway. I like the products even though pricy. I think the opportunity gives little rewards. Even the top pins earn modest incomes except a few. None of them will ever retire as the business collapses if you pull back. They need to give up evenings and weekends to support their business. Sure they can be at home during the day. But what use is that when everyone else is at their job.Outside the few top pins everone else in amway is slaving away using up their free time with no hope of success. Most are young and its a pity they give up the best years of their life. Thats why i would never try the business. The rewards are minimal if not inexistant. The cost in terms of free time is enormous.
Not to mention those few pins at the top who make money, do so because of their downline's jobs.
Well, as far as I know, an IBO has an average 35% off in the price of each product. In Nutrilite products you have a profit margin of 40% or more. So, if you don't want to do business and keep just as a consumer, you can get that discount. If you want to start a business, let's say, for example, that you buy a product by $20 bucks and sell it by $25 or $28, or what you want; is your business. So, when you make a transaction,at the end you will have $8 dollars more that you didn't have before. If you improve your self through information,get smarter and learn how to think as a business man, you can have customers enough to sustain a retail business. But, that work still depends on you. If you choose to do so, you can create a Network. Amway doesn't care if you create a network or not. They just have a stock, and pay money to the people who decide to move it. But, if you decide create a network to move that inventory, they pay you a commission based on your own retail business performance, and the performance of the network of retailers or consumers that you created, because if your business partners understand the business model and learn how to keep a retail business and create a network of their own, or if they just want to create network of consumers, it is because you put an effort to teach other people to become entrepreneurs, networkers. Is fair to pay for that effort and, because of that effort, Amway sales are increasing. Educational material is optional, as Amway clearly states, and is not directly related to Amway. Amway offers FREE basic online training through their web page. But no one can deal with a network of people without learning how to do it. Amway courses teach how to sell and how create a retail business, but they doesn't teach how create a network of people based on trust. If a persone decide to build a network of people, but without learning how to do it, its clear that will fail or will take so much time and will make so many mistakes that he/she could avoid. That's why the IBOAI grant licenses to well-stablished business networks, solid and long operation, so they can create they'r own educational systems based on face training, CDs, DVDs, Books and other training tools. Of course, the firsts diamonds didn't have any systems and they have to learn by their own, and took a lot of time. Now new diamonds are qualifying every one or two years, when earlier they took 5 to 10 years. Anyway, the educational systems are not related directly to Amway, and Amway doesn't receive money from that events.
The system it's clear to me: A company that doesn't have a conventional supply chain management, but human networks as supply chain, decides to pay more money to the people that makes an effort greater effort to create more human distribution channels. In most of the cases (in every case I know) those people do things that most people are not willing to do (change habits, hard training and showing the business plan for a few years), so they build they'r own success. Amway is just a platform to do business, get some discount or win some money, what you want. But is up to you what to do with that. If you move stock, Amway pays. And no one, live or dead, can say that Amway don't pays the commission corresponding to the inventory moved. There are other 13 more ways to win money in Amway that most of IBOs that doesn't look for information and become professionals of what they do, don't know. Truly the Achilles heel of IBOs is their interest to search for information about the industry that they are starting, and their lack of goals,principles, determination and vision of they really want and why they want it. These things are essential for success at anything in life.
By the way, people who don't succeed always has an excuse that is logical and explains why they are not successfull. People that have success don't have any excuses, they just do what they have to do.
Also, my friend, It's Amway against Jobs? Don't think so. Amway has 20,000 employees and is one of the best places to work. But start a business of their own is a right of every person who lives in a democratic system. The principle of free enterprise is a right. Not every body was born to have a business or being their own bosses. I have a lot of friends who can't even imagine without the "security" of a job. But these friends are precisely who work for those who are entrepreneurs, those who have risked everything for an idea and fought until they reached. I know a guy who created a Diamond business in Barbados, then he moved to Santo Domingo, got married, and created a Diamond business in Santo Domingo. Earlier, he was just a guy who washed cars out a supermarket to earn some money. His name is Fabian Reid.
I know that 4000 PV seems to much, and if you don't have a solid reason why to do a network marketing business, it could be frustrating, enough to lead a man to write a blog against what he thinks is just a scheme. But the true is that 4000 PV are really nothing for a real business man or woman. 70% of the Amway market is in Asia, and over there, diamonds qualify in just one or two years. Here, in Santo Domingo, we've been qualifying diamonds yearly since 2006 and many young people are qualifying silver (7500 pv) almost every month. But they are young men and women that, when they talk to me, I just sit to hear them and learn, because they became great leaders. Elder people usually take more time to qualify because they'r old schooled, think we still are at 20th century, and most of them are not willing to change their mind set so easy.
As said before, is not an obligation to create a network, but if you decide to do it, you will have to change many things, and have very very clear goals. If you qualify Emerald, at the end of the year you'll receive the bonus of Platinum ($2500), Sapphire ($5000), and Emerald ($15,000) altogether; $22,500.00, besides your regular income as an Emerald (avg. $7,000.00). If you keep the whole fiscal year, you will receive the bonus accumulated of Platinum ($5000), Sapphire ($7500), Emerald ($20,000) and Founder Emerald (only once $75,000), altogether $107,500.00. A total of $130,000 in bonuses, plus your regular income that, by that time should be near $8000, if you work right, with a plan.
Wow. How do you have so much time in your Life the past four years to blog about Amway? Are you that butt hurt from failing in Amway?
Funny, even with the Amway discount their products cost 2-10 times more than stuff I can get elsewhere.
Funny, people who say they succeed in Amway always have an excuse not to prove it.
Wow, how do you have so much time to whine about me blogging about Amway?
The term "Amway" is generic and doesn't always refer to the corporation. The diamond leaders who lie and cheat their downline are often referred to as "Amway".
Hello frederick clark, this is again anon 1.09. I dont dont dispute much of what you say. Its more or less what my would be sponsor told me too. However even if more people get to diamond outside the USA, the outcome remains the same. Its too much effort, they dont sustain their pins and finally to the numbers on income you finish with , these are gross revenue from which business costs are deducted to leave a much lesser net. Thats why i think it aint worth the effort.
All it takes is 30 seconds to whine. It takes you years and years to blog. Who's winning, who's losing?
Unemployed college student living off Amway income. Life ain't bad.
How about you, insecure low self-image childhood issues Joecool blogger? :)
Blogging is my hobby. Unemployed college student living in mom's basement living of Amway income? You must be starving to death then. How much Amway stuff are you consuming?
You sound like a real winner. Not!
I'm quite secure with myself and I had a happy childhood. Thanks for asking.
How much are you losing in Amway each month? Seriously.
Unemployed student making money in Amway? Yeah, are you selling the Brooklyn bridge too? Sounds like you're whining about the truth that Joe shares on this blog.
I've seen many people come and go in the Amway business. Not one has ever been able to back up claims of income or success.
He's not unemployed. He works for Amway as a commissioned sales rep. Anon can call it whatever he wants but he is still working for 'the man'.
Sure, he may be living off of Amway income, but likely not in the fashion of the diamonds he covets.
As for Freddy, you have many words but nothing, that I can find, truly concrete. If I am reading correctly, you spout off much of what any recruiting IBO would say to show that it is 'possible'. Stats on the compensation plan (spending $90 on a product that is MSRP'd at $120 and getting $10 back is still losing more money than a comparable product at $60 with no discount. This is what a standard consumer would compare.), saying you know a guy who knows a guy who has made money in markets other than North America, building 'networks' and other various forms of fancy words build a guise around your true intentions as an IBO. That true intention is to build your own 'network' of sheep to fleece, just like your diamonds.
The true Achilles' heel of an IBO isn't what you mention. IBOs spend countless hours learning how to trick people into joining. How to dance around the name of AMWAY. How to deflect comments on 'scams' and 'pyramids'. How to build lists and be 'better' people. How to judge the outside world negatively. How to get people to come to meetings and conferences.
And mostly, how to build dreams and goals, without any true guidance on how to get there. IBOs are at point A, being shown point C, with no mention on how to even begin point B. Sign them up, give them a dream, and waste their time and energy on everything but actually building a business.
-Jerry
Sure, you get "stuff", not quality. Really I can get a deodorant cheaper than Amways make, but I've to buy more of those cheap deodorants even when I've not finished the Amways or any other that has more quality. Is not necessary to be an IBO to know that.
Ok, are you saying that nobody have success in Amway, because you didn't succeed? Success don't need to be proved. There is such a thing called "result", that shows if a person have success or not. By the way, 70% of the Amway's sales comes from Asia. The Amway sales in 2012 were 12 billion dollar. If there are not people succeeding in Amway, is not possible that Amway reports that amount in sales and reach the company #25 of the greatest private companies of America at Forbes. Or it is? Oh, wait, success for many people is to earn a lot of money with out almost any effort in a short time. The first thing I learned, not from an Amway IBO, but from business man like Jon Huntsman, is that success comes from hard work.
Please, don't replay anonymous, because I don't know who I'm replying to. One of the anonymous replied to me:
"Its too much effort, they don't sustain their pins and finally to the numbers on income you finish with , these are gross revenue from which business costs are deducted to leave a much lesser net. Thats why i think it aint worth the effort."
The effort to run behind something is always up to the person. Maybe for you is not worth, because you don't have a reason why to fight until you reach it. Is it is true that some people don't sustain their pins, and it is true that many people never achieve it. The same happens in religion, in academy, in the marriage. It is always up to the people mindset and what they are willing for their lives. Here in Dominican Republic, we have 18 diamonds. Just one of them stop qualifying once, but he learned from his mistakes and re-qualified to higher pins. 16 never have lost their qualifications, but they've grown. The first diamond qualified in 2005. My diamond, Manuel Diaz, is almost qualifying Crown, because he have 15 diamonds in his network, and hundreds of Emeralds from many countries, even in USA. I know he is a successful man, because I know the neighborhood where he raised and I know his life style. The same happens with many diamonds here. But have also a congressman that is diamond, the last Dominican diamond that qualified the last year, Elias Serulle. I know him before he was a Diamond because he's a friend of my sister. Most of the business managers of all the banks and many VP (my sponsor is a VP of one of the largest banks in DR) are doing this business and have retired their wives. They'r planing to retire too. All the emeralds I know, people that have just 2 years or 3 doing this business, are not afraid of being fired, because they'r free. In my case, I still don't have a year in Amway, but my support team, the books, etc. teached me that if I treated Amway as a business, with a separate bank account, not mixing my personal money with the business money, raising a customer portfolio and learning how to keep them, I'll raise enough money to pay to cover my fixed costs (education) costs in order to learn how to build a big network, cover my representation expenses (like invite a prospect to a restaurant for show the plan to him, or going out to diner with my business associates), and have extra money to reinvest and to save for another purpose. That's what I did, so that's why me, a computer engineer and entrepreneur decided to take seriously this business opportunity.
Products are expensive? That could be an excuse of a person who don't know the products, their warranty, their quality, their performance, the added value that is what customers pays for. But that's still an excuse. There are cars that are more expensive than others, but people who understand the added value, pay for that. The same happens with everything in the market.
So, if you fail on learning how to raise money with an Amway franchise (like any other business model), you failed as a business man. Amway is just a plant that makes very high quality products or trade other company's product or services, also of very high quality, and has an agreement with the IBOAI so that the IBOs can distribute their products and make propaganda. Amway pay money to the IBOs that are more successful in moving volume. IBOs can move the volume for their own, or can create networks of people, many tiny retail business working together that can move a lot of volume. Move a huge volume by your self seems easier than creating a network of people, because we are all afraid of being rejected. But moving a huge volume, like a lonely ranger is more difficult in the long term and, it doesn't allow you to be free because everything depends on you. If you take enough time to create a network, like creating a house, it's true that at the beginning won't be easy, and more when you don't have a really clear and deep reason to do it (believe me, people don't become emerald or diamond just for more money), but when you learn how to do it, it is because you already did it. And, although you lose the qualification for a time, if you have a very clear reason, you'll do it better and in less time the second time. That's something that all successful people have in common. They can fall, but they start over again, until they reach what they want.
The lesson I've learned with Amways, when I compare it with my previous software business, is that Amway is not about products, but about an opportunity to any one who can see it, understand it, and take it. Many will take it and will succeed with it; many won't take it, because buying a franchise is not taking the opportunity, but succeeding it is. And succeed is not being an emerald or a diamond. Maybe you can get what you want with just being a Platinum or just earning some extra money. The important is that you can get what you want, that is what I call taking the opportunity.
http://do.linkedin.com/pub/frederick-clark/13/97/826
And, Joecool, what makes you think that the bad that happens to you is the same thing that is happening to everybody as IBOs?. Do you really think that everybody makes the same mistakes that you did? Is logical that an student thinks that everybody will fail an exam just because he failed? Almost every one that fails an exam has a perfect excuse, but that doesn't means that he or she is right.
Some IBOs write blogs too. It's evidence that the same shit happens now as when I was an IBO.
The quality and concentration of Amway products is a strawman argument used by IBO's who know that AMway products cannot stand up in an actual price comparison.
For every succesful diamond there are thousands or more downlie losing money in support of that diamond, Diamonds that parade around are like parading around sweat shop owners who exploit their workers for profit.
Con ment can get people to do their bidding on their own will. That's why these diamnds are insidious.
It seems to me That Frederick makes more sense. Its not because of Amway Or Amway Diamonds That you are Not Successful. It all Depends On You Joe. Have a Dream That motivates you in Building This Business you have to be passionate about you're Amway business. You dont just join and automatically become Rich ! YOU have to get out there & do the work ! NOTHING IS EASY IN LIFE ! There will be Failures , pain , & Disappointments but thats all part of Being Successful in this business. Now get over it. I am an IBO & I have Faith. Also God Is A Big Necessity in Building you're business. If you Believe you will Succeed !! Dont Just Quit! Only Losers Quit!!! Now stop judging Amway. Just because you're a quitter doesnt mean everyone will follow your path. Only people that want to be something in Their Life are Winners. The ones that are willing to suffer now & live the rest of their life as a Champion!!!!!
"I don’t count my sit-ups. I only start counting when it starts hurting. When I feel pain, that’s when I start counting, because that’s when it really counts." – Muhammad Ali
LOL
I had a dream. I believe in God. I did everything my upline advised and went 4000 PV. I had eagle parameters but I didn't make any net profit like the upline promised. They gave me BS answers when I started to question them about why I wasn't profiting.
I realized they were liars and I quit. I am much more successful after quitting than before.
You talk soo much shit you realize amway is tax deductable and all that money you claim you loss you could have gotten back as soon as you claim yourself as a business you poor excuse of a human.. You know what the real time waster is you talking since 2013 about amway. All you simply had to do was claim yourself as a business when you did your taxes here in the U.S and every cent spent towards amway you would have gotten back including any utilities used towards it. You live in hawaii hawaii, you dont claim taxes lol ?Like I said like many people said don't be a soar loser and tell people to loose a opportunity just cuz you wanted to be a dumbo and not find all your information. You a poor excuse of a person you been talking about this since 2013 and guess what people still going diamond still joining and the world is still rotating what the hell your going to do about that. At the end of the day buddy amway is just a platform thats all and people will continue to succeed despite your negativity beside your little life. When you die guess what amway is still going to be around for generations to come and theres nothing you can do or say to stop that!
You obviously don't know much about Amway and you don't know much about taxes. Amway revenues have dropped about 25% from 2013 to 2017. With less revenues, that means there are less diamonds and less platinums.
As for taxes, if you are in the 25% tax bracket, that means wasting $1000 in Amway business expenses means you get back $250 for $1000 spent. If you spent $10,000, you get back $2500. The problem is that you can only deduct legitimate business expenses and many Amway IBOs have been raked over the coals by the IRS for questionable business expenses. If the expense doesn't actually help you to profit, the IRS likely will disallow the business expense and many Amway IBOs have been hosed by the IRS.
What an ignorant comment, but coming from an Amway supporter, I'm not really sur[rised.
To Anonymous at 11:15 PM --
Besides knowing nothing about IRS policy on business-loss deductions, you're also unaware of the fact that Amway in North America is in a downward spiral. The IRS routinely denies Amway IBO claims for business losses, and Amway has been declining by 25% every year for the last five years.
Were you born stupid, or did you take an advanced degree in the subject?
You say Amway "is a platform." Yeah, sure -- a platform on the gallows of financial suicide.
But let's cut to the chase -- tell us exactly how much money you personally have lost in Amway so far. Come on -- put your money where your mouth is.
And by the way -- go back to school and learn how to spell, and compose a coherent English sentence.
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