It Sounds Good?

  Having blogged about Amway for 30 years now, I have observed that Amway IBOs talk a good game about retailing, sponsoring and doing Amway business activities. They will tell you to set yourself up with 20 customers, sponsor 6 frontline, show a number of plans and set up certain follow ups with contacts, and doing other activities supposedly to build an Amway business. I find if humorous when these same IBOs start throwing insults or diverting the discussion when someone asks if they are actually making money. Of course, it would be understandable if a new IBO would admit they had not made a fortune as of yet, but it seems that even that response is not forthcoming from IBOs.  

It seems that the Amway business is simple enough. Buy some products, sell products and try to sponsor some downline in order to leverage your volume with your downlines. IBOs mistakenly believe that you can build it once correctly and that the income will flow into future generations. What goes unnoticed is that IBOs come and go with such a high frequency, that a business generating residual income would be like a sandcastle on the beach. You might build it nice and big, but the waves of attrition would quickly turn that sandcastle into nothing. The same would be true of an Amway business. The IBOs dropping out would wipe out your business unless you are constantly replacing the people who quit. IBOs like to talk about Amway sales and how the company is growing in sales, but the Amway sales have no relationship with making IBOs more profitable. 

IBOs may also toss in comments about how they are nicer people or how they are improving their marriage because of the Amway business. I often wonder how that can be when functions and meetings take you away from your family and spouse. I suppose it could be because the uplines talk about people being nicer or tossing out lies about Amway and the AMOs saving marriages. I remember a WWDB diamond talking about how WWDB members had a 2% divorce rate while the rest of society has a 60% divorce rate. Ironically, that diamond's marriage ended in divorce. I believe this crap is still taught as a WWDB IBO who blogs, had mentioned this tidbit on his blog last year. I don't believe Amway IBOs or anyone else has a higher or lower rate of divorce than the rest of society, but it becomes an issue when uplines teach it and their downlines repeat it. 

So, it would seem that IBOs talk a good game. They know what to say and how to act, but they're like poker players who are bluffing. If you call them on it, they are likely to fold in their hands because they don't have the goods. It is why many Amway discussions often turn into an insult contest, when the IBO suddenly gets confronted with facts that are contrary to upline teaching. It's usually quite funny but I wonder if these folks question their upline or go on their merry way repeating uplines lies? It becomes apparent to everyone but the IBO when they are repeating crazy stuff taught by their upline. Good luck to anyone who tries to build this business against nearly insurmountable odds.

Ruthless?

 The really insidious part about some of the Amway LOS leaders, such as the ones I had in WWDB, is that they apparently are cutthroat ruthless businessmen with nice suits, and disguised as your mentors and friends. They get you to trust them, and they will tell you that they have your best interest at heart, or that they would never purposely lead you astray. On the surface, you may think this is true, but look at their actions and you can easily discern that some of these uplines are absolutely ruthless businessmen who would take every cent from you if they could. I was in WWDB and I have good reasons to believe that they are still doing this, based on a WWDB IBO blog. On this blog, I see all the same teachings today, that I heard as an IBO and some of the same claims such as buying homes in cash. It's scary.   (The blog was call "Expeditions of Truth" and the fired-up blog owner has now quit and is doing other things)

They may even claim moral superiority such as using religion as a basis for building the business. I heard some leaders say "Amway is a God pleasing business". Really? God likes lying and exploiting others? I would beg to differ. They might tell you lies such as Amway and/or WWDB IBOs have a lower divorce level than the world. They may tell you a bunch of unsubstantiated details. I urge IBOs to verify and confirm claims like these.  How do splines know who gets divorced?

As an IBO, the diamonds may tell you to never miss a function, ever. The only good reason for missing a function was for your own funeral. I recall some crossline IBOs rearranging pre-planned anniversary parties, weddings, and other special family events in the name of being core and attending all functions. Some IBOs actually did quit their jobs to attend functions, and they very well may have done so because some uplines taught this. IBOs were also encouraged and told to go into debt to attend a function. This was okay because it was an "investment" into your business. 

Our group was also strongly encouraged to buy extra cds every week. To be core, you needed to listen to a cd each day and you cannot listen to the same one each day, right? Couples were told to buy their own separate standing orders. Brad Duncan even had a true north tape (cd) that said sponsors were to eat the standing orders for downlines who quit because it was too much trouble to call upline who calls upline who calls upline to cancel a standing order. Oddly enough, they didn't mind upline calling upline calling upline to add a standing order. 

In the end, I was lucky enough to have been progressing up the pin ranks, so my losses were not that devastating. I ended up losing in my early months of the business but mostly broke even when I was at 4000 PV. Sadly though, my crossline did not fare so well. I know of one couple who declared bankruptcy. I don't know how much their WWDB involvement contributed to bankruptcy, but I am certain it was a major factor, and I know of two couples who had homes foreclosed, and I believe that their allegiance to WWDB was a factor in those foreclosures. But I guess hey, two WWDB diamonds had homes foreclosed so maybe they were duplicating?

Do not be fooled. The diamonds may have a nice smile and a nice suit, but they are cutthroat wolves in sheep's clothing who will take your last dime if you allow them to.

Sharp Prospects?

 One of the things taught to our group by upline was to recruit "sharp" people. And in general, I agree that many/most IBOs were sharp people. Most of them young, nice, motivated and wanting more in life. Certain Amway defenders wrongly claim that I am against Amway and IBOs to a degree where I am maniacal against them. I am not. I recall that most of my group and my crossline were mostly educated and had decent jobs. We all hoped to achieve the dream of walking away from our jobs and living in luxury. We got the idea that it was very reasonable and achievable if only we did as upline advised and immersed ourselves in the "system", which in my case, was WWDB. We were told that WWDB had much fruit on its tree and at the time I was an IBO, that appeared to be true.  But the key was to subscribe to all of the functions, audios and books and teaching.

However, at the time, we did not know that some/most/all WWDB leaders made significant income from selling us tools and functions.  You see, we were lied to and speakers at major functions told the audience that nobody made a cent from tools and that upline makes pennies only after you earn dollars. We now know that this is not true and that these speakers were lying.  What's more, these leaders were never made accountable for their lies. They just revised history and acted like nothing happened. Sadly, many downline IBOs simply accepted the explanation and continued to buy tools and functions. Currently, the WWDB tree is getting barren, with little "fruit". There are very few new diamonds from WWDB in the US, and some of their more apparently dynamic leaders have left WWDB to start their own systems. Thus, it looks like WWDB is left with the same old tired speakers today, as the ones who were around prior to my involvement with Amway.

But what's puzzling, or maybe not, is why aren't there more successes if many, possibly most IBOs are "sharp" people? Surely large groups of smart and motivated people can accomplish much, but for whatever reason, they are unable to accomplish much in Amway and WWDB. In fact, many of these sharp people cannot sponsor a single downline and have difficulty in selling Amway products. After many years of blogging and analyzing the Amway opportunity, my conclusion is that Amway products are priced too highly and cannot compete with similar products on the open market. Sure, Amway defenders will cite quality or concentration as reasons why Amway is competitive, and in some cases, Amway is competitive, but the general public doesn't care, they just want cheap stuff, and Walmart fulfills that need better than Amway. It leaves the majority of Amway sales being made to active business building IBOs. Apparently, the artificial need to buy Amway goods disappears when the diamond dream disappears.   How many former IBOs move 100 PV because of the great value?

Also, the zany and sometimes deceptive behavior of past and some present IBOs gives the Amway name a bad reputation, making it difficult to get anyone to see the plan, and sponsoring becomes nearly impossible. It is for this reason, I believe Amway is growing in foreign countries and not in North America, where saturation has occurred. When you factor in all of these variables, it is easy to conclude that large groups of sharp people fail is not because they are not capable, it is because the Amway opportunity comes with so many handicaps that even sharp people cannot overcome them. It is why so many former IBOs, including myself, have done quite well for themselves after leaving Amway. Did I learn some things about business while in Amway?  Yes, I did learn some things of value, but I also learned that I was lied to and deceived by WWDB leaders and for that reason, my blog continues......

Everyone Starts At Zero?

 The Amway business is a level playing field. At least that's what my upline told us when I was an IBO. That everyone starts at zero. While that is somewhat true, there were other factors that existed, that most IBOs did not know about. That factor is the possibility of PV manipulation. I believe that groups that are not on direct fulfillment (Groups still calling in and picking up) are able to transfer PV around. Thus, certain groups or favored downline could be manufactured into higher pins. I believe most groups are currently on direct fulfillment, but I did confirm about less than a year ago that some groups still are on call in and pick up, but usually for tools and not Amway products.

But let's examine the concept that everyone starts at zero. While this aspect may be technically true, certain people are simply better at selling, or better and more adept at socializing and talking to others.  So, while your PV count may be zero, the skills needed to start and run a business is not a level playing field for most. I believe uplines state this to give prospects the idea that everyone has an equal chance at succeeding in Amway. I just cannot believe this to be true. Even current diamonds, while having achieved a certain level, probably could not "start at zero" and build a diamond ship again.   WWDB tried this some years back.  The diamonds were told to set the example and build another diamond business outside of their current diamond business.  Well, as far as I know, not a single existing diamond at the time was able to do it and the entire thing was forgotten and never mentioned again.
 
Thus, when you really think about it, the "old timers" of the diamonds should actually be given less credibility than the newer ones. Do you really believe that a diamond or higher pin who built his business in the 1970's or 1980's can really teach people in 2026 how to build the business in a way to address people in 2026, and the fact that the business is internet based as opposed to the old days.

It is easy to stand on stage, tell people how great you are, show off alleged material wealth and then tell prospects that everyone starts at zero and that anyone can build the business. I do not believe that it is true. I also strongly suspect that very few (if any) of the current diamonds would be able to "start at zero" and build a new diamond ship here in the US, where the reputation and shrinking sales would be handicaps too great to overcome for the vast majority of prospective IBOs.  How can you build a business and approach prospects when many or most people have a negative view of Amway due to previous IBO behavior or unethical behavior?  

Capital Flight?

Some months ago, I wrote an article about the newly elected (at the time) NY mayor Zohran Mamdani.  In a recent event, he filmed a video clip about his proposed tax on expensive second homes in NY as a means of generating revenue for the city.  He has already failed to deliver on some of his promises such as free bus services for New Yorkers.  Some people have pushed back on these taxes because people who own these expensive second homes because these residents will basically receive nothing in return and because they likely spend only part of the time in NY and therefore, they do not even use as many day to day services as regular citizens.   

In this most recent turn of events, the mayor filmed his video in front of a billionaire's second home.  That billionaire is the head of the Citadel.  A big company that provides thousands of jobs in NY and the head of the company already pays high taxes and donates a lot of money towards charitable causes in NY.  And rather than backing down about the video, the mayor doubles down.

It is a fact that the top 1% of New Yorkers pay nearly half of the taxes in NY.  And the bottom half of New Yorkers pay less than 5% of the taxes.  So, in a socialist regime, you just take more and more.  If anyone believes that this taxing of a second luxury home will be the "be all end all", they are sadly mistaken.   Cutting spending is not politically popular so politicians think rich people are an endless ATM machine for them.  And I might remind people that in 2022, the NY governor went on TV and told rich people, republicans in particular, to leave and go to Florida.   Now she's asking them to come back and pay taxes to NY.  Fat chance.

Then in California, the politicians have put a wealth confiscation tax on the ballot (this allows politicians to blame the voters).  This new tax would basically tax billionaire's "unrealized gains".  So if someone is wealthy because of stock holdings and real estate, they would have to sell these assets (and pay taxes on the gains) to have enough cash to pay the tax.  And effectively, this is a 7-8% tax because selling off 5% of your holdings won't be enough to get 5%.   Now if you have only 1 billion, that tax would be 50 million plus the taxes on the sale of your assets making the bill 70 to 80 million dollars.   California and NY are already leading the country in affluent people leaving to other states because of excessive taxation and regulations.   Billionaires are usually smart people and surrendering 70 to 80 million for nothing in return is a piss poor investment.  And 70 or 80 million is if you have 1 (one) billion dollars.  If you have 2 billion, then your bill is effectively 140 to 160 million.  

This is where capital flight takes place.   The ultra rich people move to Nevada, Arizona, Texas and Florida.   Do you think 70 or 80 million can pay for you to move and get a nice place to live elsewhere?  Not all billionaires will leave, but it doesn't take all of them to leave to create a budgetary disaster in California or New York.  For the record, this wealth confiscation was already tried in Europe and so many wealthy people moved that the countries who tried this repealed the law.   Now I see that even the Seattle mayor has flippantly told the wealthy "bye" in her city.  

Socialism works great until you run out of other people's money to distribute.  But these folks win elections by appealing to many young people who are possibly in entry level jobs or are lazy and are enamored by the idea of free stuff like universal income, health care, etc.  The bottom line is the politicians are so inept and greedy that they don't realize they are killing the golden goose.  California has one of the largest economies in the world, but with their taxes and regulations, if the Tech Giants in silicon valley were to leave, California would be burnt toast.  

The Root Of Many Evils?

 Over the many years of Amway's existence, their reputation in the US and Canada has tanked. And it's not all due to Amway the corporation itself, but rather Amway IBO leaders who teach and condone unethical behavior. Of course, I don't know of any significant measures that Amway has taken to discipline some of their wayward IBOs, but that's another story.

During my blogging career, I've seen young people who were discouraged from attending college so they could build an Amway business. I've personally seen people go bankrupt and lose their homes because they followed the advice of their all-knowing uplines. Sure, people have some responsibility for their actions, but I feel as if some of these kinds of actions by some IBOs and IBO leaders is predatory and focuses on people who can least afford to funnel money into the business and the leech teaching systems such as WWDB or Network 21.

I've seen ridiculous product claims such as people claiming that bottled water could cure ills and make you athletically superior. Of course, this water costs about $50 a case when you could buy 8-10 cases of water at Walmart for the same price. They claim superiority in their vitamins without unbiased scientific evidence to support their claims. Perhaps that is why the Amway vitamins seemingly are consumed nearly exclusively by IBOs themselves.

Despite claims by Amway supporters and IBOs that things are changing in Amway for the better, there is plenty of evidence that nothing has changed. Outrageous income claims. I thought the Dateline show in 2004 exposed some crazy stuff with an Amway IBO leader claiming that people could earn $250K per year with a part time effort, but then my friend Rocket (fellow blogger) finds this gem with an IBOAI member and crown ambassador in WWDB/Amway claiming you can make hundreds of thousands of dollars a month: http://rocketsrants.blogspot.com/2011/09/amway-guys-they-sure-say-stuff.html

I wonder if that diamond himself even makes that kind of money?   Ironically, his triple diamond brother wasn't even close to that when his chapter 7 bankruptcy papers were exposed a few years ago.

So to Amway prospects and apologists, the Amway corporation itself may be perfectly legal and clean, but the root of many evils comes from Amway uplines and AMO leaders. It is for this very reason that many get turned off just at the mention of the Amway name. Amway can stop them, but will they?

The Real Pitch?

 Many or possibly most people have experienced some kind of pitch by an Amway IBO sometime during their lives.  My first Amway pitch was an invitation to a beer bust while I was in college. I arrived at the meeting expecting beer and pizza only to see people in suits giving a presentation. They spoke about how you could generate income by eliminating the middleman from product distribution. Creating efficiencies was a way to generate money and Amway was it. On the surface, it can seem as if everything the speaker said made sense, although real life practice doesn't bear it out.

Sell and use consumables. Consumables need to be re-purchased so obviously it is a good way to run a small business. What wasn't discussed was the higher prices of the products/consumables. What many people do not see is that Amway's generous bonuses have to be built into the price of the products. For this reason, Amway cannot compete with big retailers who don't have to add salespeople bonuses into their prices.  And big retailers have the leverage to squeeze out the best prices because of the volume they move.

But if you look beyond all of this and still think Amway is a good opportunity, then the real Amway pitch comes in. People get excited about working part time, 2-5 years to earn willable and residual income which will allow someone to retire early and leave a legacy to future generations. This is the point where the Amway presenter makes the pitch about people needing training.   By the way, Amway does not allow the use of willable and residual income.  If it were trye, Amway the corporation would be using these terms in their business disclosures.

Then you'll be told need tools. After all, a carpenter can't build a house without tools, right? So many people who think Amway will make them rich, start to invest in their "tools". Sure, the Amway functions and some other materials can make you feel good or motivated, but in the end, the tools are supposed to help you generate sales and to increase your business revenue. What goes unnoticed in many cases is that the Amway tools are the reason for an IBO's net losses. The upline will justify this by telling stories about how success is right around the corner or that you should never quit and you will eventually make it.

All of this rhetoric from Upline is nice, but people who don't quit have no assurance of making it. Look at the fruit on the tree is what IBOs are often told at meetings and functions.  Sounds rosy, but in the end, my former LOS, WWDB, I believe has fewer diamonds now than when I was an IBO 30 years ago. My former sponsor was still active in Amway after 25 years (not sure about now) and he's not even a platinum. You don't see many new diamonds except for in foreign countries. To me, this is evidence that Amway is saturated and there is little chance of future success. This is why there are mostly tired old diamonds working until they pass away. If the diamonds were so "awesome", why aren't all of their kids and close friends also in diamond club?

The answer is that the Amway pitch can sound good, but it doesn't work. From 2013 to now, Amway revenues are down.  From a peak of 11.8 billion in 2013 to lower levels now, unless I'm mistaken.  I believe Amway is a sinking ship.

Ignoring Facts?

One of the bat sh*t crazy things that our Amway upline taught the group was that the facts don't matter when you have a dream. There is evidence that this is still taught today and in particular, I have heard that from IBOs who claim to associate with WWDB. IBOs are taught to ignore facts because the facts make their Amway businesses look like a joke. Spend $300 a month on products to gain a $10 rebate when you could have bought the same or similar products at Walmart for a fraction of the cost. Then many IBOs spend another $200 or more so they can be taught to ignore facts or that this is somehow a great deal.  Even in a Bizarro world, it's hard to make any sense of this kind of teaching.

Any real business owner would never ignore facts. A real business owner makes business decisions based on facts. IBOs are being duped into making business decisions based on emotions and hype.  The hype of fantasy.  The hype of becoming uber rich by purchasing Amway goods.   The Amway opportunity already is already saturated with handicaps and challenges, particularly in the US and Canada, where the reputations and previous antics of fellow IBOs has so stained Amway's name that it appears to be negatively affecting sales and preventing any meaningful growth. Despite what Amway apologists claim, Amway revenues have shrunk since they peaked more than 10 years ago and I do nto believe that have ever fully recovered.   Amway will likely continue to struggle unless improvements and corrections are made, in my opinion. It's also possible that it is too late to right the ship at this point.

It is also why many IBOs talk about how Amway saves marriages, or Amway made them nicer people. Uplines will teach this because it takes a business owner's focus away from their bottom line, the profit or loss. Or IBOs are taught that a loss just means they are investing in their business, despite being told upfront that there is little or no investment needed and that a profit can be turned quickly in Amway. These uplines have gone on for years with no accountability placed upon them by either Amway or their downlines. Any "incidents" are simply ignored or history revised by uplines.

There are blogs on the internet, where IBOs write about buying homes in cash, and Amway IBOs having a 2% divorce rate compared to more than 50% in the rest of the world, yet you have Amway defenders claiming this isn't being taught, when clearly it is. Cover it up all you want; the evidence is right there but these folks aren't interested in the facts. I urge great caution to people who are ignoring facts to pursue an Amway dream.

And really, if you're taught to ignore facts, maybe you need to rethink who you're in business with.

The Amway "Bizarro" World?

 When I was an Amway IBO, 30 years ago at this point, I was all "gung ho" because although new, I was excited because I was sponsoring people and my business was growing.  I moved up the rankings and crossed the Amway stage as a 1000 pin, 2500 pin and later a 4000 pin.  I was considered a "mover and shaker" so I had "earned" the opportunity to spend time with our upline diamond.  I got to attend some home board plans and got to "associate" with the diamond.  The experience was coveted by many and here I was "living the dream".

But along the way, I noticed some strange things about the Amway business that defied explanation.   Sort of a "Bizarro" world, coining a phrase from I believe the Batman comics.  So what are these bizarre things I noticed?   Well, we always talked about business and how much money diamonds made.  So I once casually asked my sponsor how much cash he was making (we were friends prior to Amway)  and he told me "none of my business".  I thought it was odd when they tell the audience that the upline diamond makes $40,000 a month or something of that nature.  Even at functions we were bombarded by talk about residual income, fabulous vacations, financial freedom, etc.  

I attended an audience where we were told that "losing money was success".   If you were not yet cash positive, but were learning the system and developing your IBO skills, then you are a success even if the cash wasn't there yet because we were in training and this was simply a prelude to untold wealth and financial freedom.  Some upline taught "fake it till you make it".  Meaning, pretend to be wealthy until you became wealthy.  The problem was that nobody I knew of was becoming wealthy, at least not because of Amway.   After a while, the Amway business just became sort of a mundane job where were paid to work rather than being financially rewarded for our efforts.   But don't forget, it's your own fault if you aren't succeeding, despite following the "foolproof" system that they constantly promoted.  Even though I was doing ok as an IBO, I started to see and notice these bizarre events and started to wonder what the end game really was.

Then we got taught about submission to upline.  This one was hard to take.  So for example, if I was already an established successful businessman but joined Amway and some 22 year old was my upline somewhere, I was supposed to listen to his advice simply because he joined Amway before me even if he maybe hadn't accomplished much in the business itself.   Does that make any sense to anyone?  And at functions, we were not supposed to "crossline" which is to talk business with other IBOs because we had no financial interest in their business, thus that advice only came from directly upline, which was also odd, because it was common at functions to have crossline diamond speakers, which they told us was ok because it was a diamond speaking.   Wouldn't a newbie IBO be able to benefit from speaking to me, a 4000 PV pin?

And there are others, but I recall my sponsor being under the weather and said he had a "warm".  I assume he said it because it was the opposite of saying he had a "cold".  As if saying something opposite was going to change the facts of what is happening.  I could write a dissertation about all of the odd things that go on in the Amway IBO world, but these are a few that stood out to me during my IBO days.  Thankfully, I snapped out of my Amway trance fairly quickly and recovered in time to build a nice career and life for myself and my wife.   Anway bizarro stories to share?  Please leave them in the comments.

Random Observations?

 Observation #1: In general, IBOs are less successful in life than others. That is why they are more open to the business and why they can be convinced that there is a shortcut to retirement and perpetual wealth. When I was still young and a newbie IBO, I was not where I wanted to be financially, as I was younger and at the earlier stages of my career. I would not be open to “options” right now, however, many people looking for more in life or a shortcut to retirement may be more susceptible to looking at options. It's just that the Amway opportunity, in my opinion, is a poor option.

Observation #2: The biggest zealots/supporters appear to have the smallest businesses. They talk the talk - but no evidence of walking the walk. Also, any discussion about their personal success with the business is limited and shrouded in secrecy or they will make vague references about their level of success. They will say that their incomes are not relevant to the discussion or will point out a copy of someone's check or show a picture of a diamond's mansion, but will never disclose real financials like a REAL business owner would.

Observation #3: The business has a bad reputation and cannot be marketed to the general public without some degree of deception. It’s why there are so many testimonials of people tricked into attending meetings (including myself). Being straight forward with information will likely get you a resounding “No thanks”.

Observation #4: It would appear that much upline teaching is not focused on actually running a profitable business, but dedication to the system. It’s why so many IBOs don’t seem to know what a profit loss statement is, and don’t bother keeping one themselves. It’s also why the content of many BSMs is to purchase more BSMs. At functions, they will tell you to attend more functions and buy more standing orders, and on standing orders, they will tell you to never quit and to attend more functions.

Observation #5: IBOs in general don’t seem to have planned out their retirement. They are convinced that the Amway opportunity will provide for them when they reach their retirement years. They put down people who are working jobs and investing for their futures. They feel that purchasing function tickets is their investment for retirement. While a fraction of 1% might make some significant money in Quixtar, the vast majority do not. The fact that the majority may not have put forth a Herculean effort is irrelevant in my opinion. The bottom line is that the vast majority will not make an income from this opportunity. To ignore this fact is burying your head in the sand.

Making Millions?

 I was sponsored into Amway by a good friend back in the 1990's. My friend had gone "direct" at the time so he recruited me by saying that going direct was "easy" and that he could easily show me how to do it. I had been recruited by an Amway IBO before and it was not a good experience where I was completely lied to in order to get me to "see the plan".  I was in college and a friend had invited me to a "beer bust". I attended the meeting wearing a T-shirt and jeans only to arrive to see people wearing suits and ties and I was thinking WTH? My friend who invited me assured me that we would down some beer after the meeting. I was mad even though I stayed for the meeting.

I didn't join and my friend eventually told me that he may not be able to hang out with me in the future because he would be rich and may not have time to hang out anymore. I went home a bit mad and spoke to my friend who I came with. We talked about whether money could be made in Amway and decided that the Amway opportunity was likely saturated, so we decided not to join.  And that's not to mention as college students, I had no way of being able to sell or consume 100 PV on a monthly basis.

Fast forward to the later1990's and a friend of mine has gone "direct". I didn't really know exactly what that was, but I knew that the term "direct" meant you accomplished a significant level in Amway. I decided to join and see if my friend could deliver on his promise that he could show me how to go direct. I should have taken it as a red flag when I asked him about his Amway income, and he told me it was none of my business. But he smoothed that over by assuring me that we would both be "Millionaires" traveling the world together in the future.

I worked really hard and managed to sponsor 12 frontline legs in about 7-8 months and I was climbing the Amway ladder. I was considered a "mover and shaker" so I got exclusive time with the upline Diamond. I even got to attend special meetings and house "plans" with the diamond.

The ironic part of this story is that I purchased a home in about the year 2000 and I made the purchase for about $300K. My real estate agent also knows my Amway sponsor and contacted him about purchasing a home on Oahu (Hawaii). My former sponsor told the agent that he would only buy a home in cash (Amway/WWDB teaching). Fast forward to 2017 and my $300K home is worth nearly one million dollars so my home equity alone nearly makes my net worth a million dollars. When you add in my cash savings and investments, I am worth a lot more than a million.  Sure, nothing to brag about and it's still not a life of luxury, but my former sponsor from Amway who is a physician is still renting a home and is nowhere close to retiring. I am currently retired, with enough cash to live comfortably which includes frequent travel other luxuries.

While I may not be a diamond living the "diamond" lifestyle you see at functions on a slide show, I suspect that I'll be better off than some of the diamonds who live "bonus check to bonus check" trying to portray a lifestyle of "keeping up with the Joneses". Diamonds portray an excessive lifestyle of wealth, but I suspect that many of them cannot afford the lifestyle they portray. There have been "factoids" that support my claims. The fact that a triple diamond in WWDB declared chapter 7 bankruptcy and another diamond had a home foreclosed (diamonds pay cash for everything?) shows that diamonds may not be as financially free as they claim.

So who's making millions in Amway? IMO, they're folks selling CDs, voicemail, functions and books. But..... If you're a diamond, you likely spend it faster than you make it because portraying a wealthy lifestyle is expensive.  

Amway And Tax Time?

This is a re-post and a little dated, but I do not believe that anything of significance regarding Amway and taxes has changed in the Amway business that would render this post as not useful.   FYI, I, Joecool, was mentioned in this Forbes article.  Imagine that?  WWDB leaders used to say that Forbes was credible.   LOL

A recent sight visitor posted this link which I found interesting and humorous. I did not post the entire link, so there is more material. Check it out.

http://riles52.blogspot.com/2011/06/selling-soap-as-hobby-amway-ibos-in-tax.html

Selling Soap as a Hobby - Amway IBO's in Tax Court
Roger S. Campbell, et ux. v. Commissioner, TC Memo 2011-42

The Amway distributorship system is well known to respondent and this Court
Friscia Construction, Inc., et al. v. Commissioner, TC Memo 2000-192

I included the Campbell case in one of my group posts. It concerned someone whose Amway activities were considered a hobby by the Tax Court denying them deductions for losses. That portion of the post was picked up by someone who calls himself Joecool and posted on his blog under the title "Do IBO's have a clue about business?". I found that there are quite a few blogs dedicated to pointing out the downside of the Amway experience including Married To An Ambot by Anna Banana :

The other attraction of Amway to some people is that it might allow them to deduct as business expenses things like cars, part of their home or entertainment that they would have spent anyway. That's probably the aspect of Amway that the IRS finds most interesting. Joecool did a post on how some IBO's think of their income tax refunds (generated by Amway losses sheltering other income) as profit.

To me the most interesting thing that I found in my search is this excerpt from the Internal Revenue Manual for examiners who are doing information requests:

.4.4.3.39 — Amway Corporation
[Last Revised: 12-10-2007]
(1) Amway Corporation has waived the hand delivery requirements of 26 USC §7603 and will accept summonses by personal service, mail, or overnight service at Amway Corporation, 7575 E. Fulton, Ada, MI 49355, Attn.: Director, Legal Division. Direct distributors who further qualify for profit sharing bonuses receive the non-cash part of that bonus through a mutual fund account administered by Amway Mutual Fund, Inc., 7575 E. Fulton, Ada, MI 49355, which requires a separate summons

Now I am subject to the AICPA Statements of Standards on Tax Practice, which among other things forbids me from giving clients advice based on what I believe the audit selection process of a taxing authority is. I wouldn't do it anyway, because I think most people who give that type of advice are guessing. Even if you happen to be one of my clients, I'm speaking to you purely as a reader here when I give you this advice:

You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask off that old Lone Ranger

And you don't take no Schedule C losses from an arrangement with a company that IRS examiners have on speed-dial.

I found 23 cases of IBO's who fought the IRS in Court. (A couple appealed, but I only counted them once)They pretty much all lost. In these type of cases there are really three ways you are denied deductions. The first is substantiation. You didn't prove it. Next is that the expenses are not really ordinary and necessary expenses of the business. When you are talking about cars and business use of the home, those two issues can get blurred together. The third is that there really isn't any business there. Taxpayers fight the IRS and win on that issue frequently even a Vietnamese couple whose "business" was playing slot machines using the principles of Feng Shui. Amway IBO's who take on the IRS on the Section 183 "hobby loss" issue almost always lose.

One of the most common themes is that IBO's seek advice generally only from their "uplines", who of course are not disinterested. They also do not seem to put any energy into trying to control their expenses. I'm going to give you a little snippet from each of the cases and comment a bit on some of them.

LOPEZ v. COMM., Cite as 94 AFTR 2d 2004-7075
Jorge N. Lopez, et ux. v. Commissioner , TC Memo 2003-142

Tax Court properly determined that engineer and wife weren't entitled to business deduction for expenses incurred in connection with their Amway products distribution activity because they didn't engage in activity for profit: although taxpayers showed proof of profit motive, such wasn't sufficient to override govt.'s evidence that included their failure to keep businesslike records, their failure to alter unprofitable methods, their non-dependence on activity income, and their use of activity to socialize with friends and family.

In their own Amway activities, which began in 1996, the Lopezes sold products at cost to both their downline distributors and their customers, which practice eliminated retail sales as a source of gross income. They chose instead to focus their efforts on developing a network of downline distributors to generate performance bonuses. Relying on Amway brochures, the Lopezes concluded that they would need to achieve and maintain a monthly point value of 4,000 for their Amway activities to be profitable. In 1998 and 1999, the Lopezes' point value did not exceed 372 points in any month.


The only advice they sought for their Amway activities was from upline distributors, and when they received unsolicited advice from their accountant, they disregarded it. During the years in question, Mr. Lopez was employed full-time as a petroleum engineer, and Mrs. Lopez was a homemaker.

The tax court ultimately was not persuaded that the Lopezes' primary motive for conducting their Amway activities was for income or profit. It found that the conduct of their Amway activity “virtually precluded any possibility of realizing a profit.” The Lopezes' lack of a business plan for recouping losses and achieving profitable levels of activity indicated the absence of a profit motive. In the face of four consecutive years of losses, the Lopezes still did not change their approach to increase the likelihood of earning a profit. The tax court further found that the Lopezes did not conduct market research to help them assess the potential profitability of their activities. It also noted that, although the Lopezes had no prior business experience, they accepted the advice of upline distributors rather than seeking advice from unbiased, independent business sources.

Since the Mr and Mrs Lopez appealed, they got to lose twice.

OGDEN v. COMM., Cite as 87 AFTR 2d 2001-1299
Michael A. Ogden, et ux. v. Commissioner, TC Memo 1999-397
Contrary to the Ogdens' contention, evidence of profit is not determinative of whether a profit motive exists. See id. at 876 (no single tax regulation factor, nor the existence of a majority of factors, is determinative of whether a profit motive exists). There is overwhelming evidence in the record that, if believed, supports a conclusion that the Ogdens maintained their Amway activity for deductions, personal pleasure and to offset wages. The tax court did not abuse its discretion in denying the motion for reconsideration.

Amway does not have a quota for sales, its products do not have to be sold above cost, and its distributors are not required to sponsor downline distributors. An Amway brochure, The Amway Business Review, states that the potential for earning income increases as the number of distributors in a sponsor's group grows and as sales increase. Distributors devote as little or as much of their time to Amway activities as they desire. The eight page Amway Business Review in large blocks on four of its pages highlights the fact that “The Average Monthly Gross Income for “Active” Distributors was $88.”

We believe Amway distributors may be biased when discussing Amway because they have a natural desire to advance the organization and/or obtain income from a downliner.


ELLIOTT v. COMMISSIONER, 90 TC 960

Deductions denied for business expenses and depreciation connected with Amway distributorship. Activities were conducted in unbusinesslike manner, taxpayers maintained full-time jobs, and little distinction was made between Amway activities and personal social activities. Also, IRS properly imposed penalties for failure to timely file and negligent or intentional disregard of rules.

A further indication of the unbusinesslike fashion in which petitioners conducted their Amway activity was the thin line dividing business activities from personal and [pg. 973]recreational activities. Petitioners offered scant evidence that their Amway activity required them to do anything other than to maintain an active social life. Although they occasionally attended seminars, most of their activity involved giving parties and taking people out to restaurants. While there is no requirement that profit-oriented work be onerous and unpleasant, the evidence presented by petitioners does not indicate activity motivated by a profit objective. On the contrary, the evidence shows that petitioners made some small modifications in their routine social life, kept cursory notes about their activities, and claimed deductions for the cost of nearly everything they owned or did. On this record, we find as a fact that petitioners' activities were motivated by a desire to avoid tax rather than a desire to generate income.

Roger S. Campbell, et ux. v. Commissioner, TC Memo 2011-42

Activities not for profit—profit objective—distributorship and direct marketing activities. Code Sec. 183 deduction limits applied to expenses pro se married real estate and construction business operators claimed in connection with Amway distributorship activity that they engaged in without requisite profit objective. Lack of profit objective was shown by facts that taxpayers commingled expenses, had no idea if they were making profit for any given year until they filed that year's return, didn't keep complete records, and otherwise didn't conduct activity in businesslike manner. It was also telling that taxpayers didn't have experience in this type of activity, didn't seek out independent advice, used activity losses to offset their real estate and construction business income, and stated that they would continue with activity regardless of whether it ever turned profit. Countervailing facts that they spent significant time on activity and increased gross receipts during years at issue weren't dispositive considering overall record

Ineffective Training?

 After years of studying Amway and blogging, I've noticed some things taught by IBO leaders that simply do not make any sense. It doesn't make sense business wise, and it just doesn't add up. I know that sometimes, you need to think outside of the box and go against the grain to succeed, but some of the IBO practices are simply insane and it's no wonder that so many IBOs fail in their pursuit of their Amway "dream". These same leaders may encourage you to disregard facts and just follow them. Blind loyalty like that can end up costing you a lot of money.

Most IBOs never sponsor a a single downline and relatively few products are sold to non IBOs. These are the reasons why most IBOs do not turn a profit but for some reason, many IBOs still seem to think that training materials are worth the money. The training might motivate you with the "rah rah" tactics, but in the big picture, are ineffective in generating more sales and getting IBOs to sponsor more people. If Amway tool and training worked, Amway sales would far greater than the approximate 8.3 billion they did last year, which is down more than 25% since 2013.

Also, "buy from yourself" a fairly common practice, is a bad idea. It is okay to support your business, but if you are the primary or only customer, you won't make money. Any profit you might turn is coming out of your own pockets. I don't know of any successful stores where the primary customers are the owner and the store employees. Yet some IBOs think this is how they will succeed. Also, for this reason, IBOs are always recruiting because they need downline to try to generate more sales volume. But because sponsoring people into Amway is nearly impossible, most people wind up recruiting but never sponsoring a single downline.

Sponsor others. So, you are struggling as an IBO. But the key to success is to try to open other stores by sponsoring downline. As a famous Amway apologist likes to claim, you do not get paid (directly) for sponsoring others. So why is this the emphasis for so many IBOs? Why would you think that opening more (Amway) stores will make you successful when you are running a failing Amway store yourself?? Yes, it is a way to possibly generate more volume, but your "success" will only come by having a bunch of struggling businesses sponsored by you. Is that how you wish to succeed? Also, the quest to sponsor others is probably how Amway got a bad reputation when IBOs tricked people into attending recruitment meetings and/or being deceptive when inviting someone to see the plan.

Folks, a business needs customers to succeed. I live in Hawaii and when tourism is slow, our local economy suffers. It's a very similar concept to your Amway business. Without customers circulating money through your business, you will eventually go out of business unless your job income continues to fund your Amway business. But I'm assuming you don't work a job just to keep your Amway distributorship going. Bottom line, if your Amway business can't support itself through sales, why are you still running it?

The Different Amway?

Joecool just returned from Vegas and had a great time.  Went to see a few shows, plus a local Jazz show with local but some well known musicians in a small club/restaurant just off the strip.  Spent some time at Circa and won a nice jackpot that more than covered my expenses for this trip.  Had a great time and looking forward to my next visit to Vegas!   If you're not a regular in Vegas, there's a new hotel near the Vegas IKEA (Durango Hotel) where their Oyster bar is amazing.  Has oyster shooters, clam chowder and some chicken gumbo.  Amazing!  And no Amway needed for a really awesome vacation.    

One of the funny excuses I hear from Amway folks is that Amway is different. Or that "they don't do that anymore". One of the things Amway IBOs have done in the past was to trick people into meetings and the diamonds used the Amway "dream" to sell and endless stream of cds/audios, functions, books and other materials that they profit from. And the upline profits even if all their downline lose their shirts. So what exactly has changed? All of this still happens ad I've seen nothing to suggest otherwise.  IBO denying these things happen don't change reality or the perceptions of Amway prospects who have the internet at the touch of their fingers.

Another funny thing was the lawsuit Amway settled back in 2010. While Amway did not admit wrong doing, they forked out about 155 million to settle the lawsuit (Pokorny). That's a pretty expensive settlement for doing nothing wrong. Amway defenders want to claim that Amway didn't want to be bothered with such a lawsuit and just found it cheaper to settle out of court. I believe that Amway would have fought tooth and nail if they thought they could be cleared of the charges. Instead, they paid 155 million to sweep it under the rug.  Amway likely has a staff of lawyers on payroll, so was it really in their best interest to settle for a large cash settlement if they honestly believe they did nothing wrong?  I don't know for sure because I don't know all of the details from behind the scenes, but on the surface, it sure seems like $155 million is a lot to pay for doing nothing wrong.

It seems that issue after issue comes up and all the Amway IBOs can do to defend their actions is to say that they don't do that anymore. What with they not do anymore in the future? Seems the entire Amway dream is based on a lie. Work hard for a few years (usually 2-5 years) and build it right and you can walk away with livable willable residual income. Funny how I have yet to see any diamond or emerald exercise such an option. You'd think after all these years, surely one big pin would want to "walk away" and just live on residuals. Instead, we see crown ambassadors die while still working.  Wouldn't any diamond want to build it right and build it once, then walk away into a quiet retirement with more cash than you know what to do with?

People may claim that Amway is new and different, but I just don't see it.

Joecool Headed To Vegas?

Joecool is headed to Vegas for 5 nights.  Going for some gaming, great food and a few shows.  No Amway income needed.  LOL   In the meantime, this article is titled:  The Key To Success? 

 Upline would tell the audience ad nauseum that tools and functions are the key to success.  It’s kind of ironic as tools and functions are vital to success, but it’s vital only to the success of the diamonds and higher ups.  Think about it.  The diamonds pocket the profits and show you all the luxuries they enjoy but they don’t mention that much of their luxuries come from tools and functions profits.  The tools have larger profit margins than Amway products and the rank and file IBOs don't get a cut from the pool of bonuses, like the Amway bonuses.  And while diamonds now speak about IBOs getting a shot at the tools income, but how much someone can earn, and all the details are sketchy, unlike the Amway bonus structure which is shown when prospects see the plan.

Diamonds used to lie and claim no profits were made from tools and functions but that lie is now impossible to defend so they might mention that profits are made but downplay the amount of the profits.  One revealing piece of evidence came in 2009 when a triple diamond filed for chapter 7 bankruptcy and his income details became publicly available. It revealed that the triple diamond made about half a million annually from Amway, which is a good income but certainly not the Uber wealth you would have imagined.  This diamond also made about half a million annually from tools and functions.   Despite all of that income, the diamond was unable to properly manage his cash and filed for chapter 7 bankruptcy.

So even with a million-dollar income this diamond had credit card debt, was unable to pay his bills and I didn’t see any charitable donations on his tax returns.  Now a million dollars annually is a great income, but you aren’t buying mansions and a fleet of sports cars in cash.   Living the “diamond” lifestyle is expensive and I suspect that the average diamond likely can’t sustain that lifestyle.  It seems that the income from tools and functions are vital to sustain a diamonds finances.   And it's why diamonds seemingly never "walk away" and collect residual income because once you stop working, your tools income stops.  This should speak volumes to people if you really understand what's happening.  

Think about this.  Income from tools and functions have a higher profit margin than Amway products and unlike the Amway compensation plan, rank and file IBOs do not get anything for the volume of tools they move.  Thus, the diamonds will push the tools hard and take no prisoners.  It’s also why your lifelong Amway uplines don’t give a hoot about you once you stop attending functions or stop buying tools.  You become one of the bitter and broke losers who quit.  They make no money off you if you quit so they may as well shove you off with a swift kick and the label of "broke loser".

Tools and functions are vital to Amway success; if you are a diamond. This does not apply to the rank and file.  

 

Cardinal Rules?

 Below is an excerpt from an apparently newbie IBO in Britt Worldwide (BWW). Note how they are taught that they must ask upline before doing their work. This IBO also talks about not having to use his brain, just follow your upline’s advice. Submit to the leaders. Follow the system and success is guaranteed. Right, and Amway apologists have the nerve to deny that this stuff still goes on? I suspect it is more common than Amway defenders will admit.   I recall these cardinal rules from my IBO days except the version I was taught is not verbatim, but basically the same.

===========================================================================


http://greatdealmway.blogspot.com/2009/08/bww-system-and-get-success.html

*3 Cardinal rules

A. never pass negative advises or rumors to your down lines.

B. you must ask to your up lines before going on your first work.

C. never ever go bad with anyone’s self motive, money and family members.

*4 powers

1. Unity: unity is most powerful aspect. Do work in unity.

2. Power of submission to your work, up lines and customers: you must understand that you do not need to use your brain in this business. Just follow your leaders and submit yourself to them.

3. Power of spoken words: try out this simple but effective formula to gain success in your life. Speak out regularly about what you want in your life. It should be for this business, for family, for country or anything you want. This will reduce the negative energy and will create positive energy around you.

Do best and follow this system. Success is guaranteed!

What Other Conclusion Is There?

 When I was an IBO, I recall so many of the "rah rah" types of meetings and functions I attended.  Yeah, some of the big functions were glitzy and the diamonds paraded around in nice business attire while showing off alleged trappings just as jet skis, sport cars or fancy vacations that they attained from the Amway business.  To an unknowing or unsuspecting person, it seems like a great dream to be able to retire at the age of 29 with more money than you know what to do with.  No brainer right?  But that's only if you don't comb through the details with a discerning eye.

If you carefully go through Amway's own disclosures, you'll see that the "average" IBO or distributor earns $202 a month.  And that $202 includes the uber wealthy diamonds (minus their bonuses), but most importantly that the $202 average does not include distributors who signed up and did nothing.  So, it's not a true "average" because it excluded the least productive of the salesforce.  Thus, this average income includes the diamonds but not the one who didn't lift a finger.   That math is extremely telling.  The Amway defenders will say "diamonds make over $500K".  But they don't tell you that a diamond making that much is Q12 diamond, which is very rare because the diamond and his/her qualifying legs all need to qualify for all 12 months in Amway's fiscal year.   

So why do the Amway folks hype up the (in reality) "ho hum" business of moving household products and cleaners, vitamins, etc.?     Because they have to.  If you do the math behind the business and even if you consider that diamonds "augment" their income by selling audios, books, functions and yes, some even still sell "voicemail", you'll see that the hype and glitz is just a facade like the front of a fancy building on a movie set.   And it's because nobody in their right mind would want to sign up and do all the (time and expenses) activities associated with the Amway  business in hopes of living a mostly ordinary middle class lifestyle.   They show you mansions, cars and alleged wealth because those kinds of prizes make the possibility of wealth seem tolerable in exchange for a person's investment time, money and effort.   Would anyone join with all the hype in hopes of living a middle class lifestyle?    Looking at all of these factors, "what other conclusion is there"?   

What happens is many young and entry level types of workers get into Amway because they believe that Amway is a short cut to wealth and early retirement.   They want to believe.  These young and often motivated youngsters think that $100K or a bit more will solve all of their problems.  But do the math.  After taxes and business expenses, there won't be much left.   I live in Hawaii and flying from here to LA for example, first class can cost upwards of $5000 for two people.   Do you believe that diamonds and their families are shelling out $10,000 for first class ever time they fly to functions if they earn even say $250K   And that's just flights.  What about 5 star hotels and fancy restaurants?    The math is where the uber wealthy diamond's stories fall apart.   What other conclusion is there?

Amway Tidbits?

 So many people get duped into thinking that they will somehow get extremely wealthy by becoming an Amway IBO. Many recruiters will tell stories about how they were once broke, but signed up, endured challenges and now they are diamonds enjoying untold wealth and luxuries. People get caught up in "dreams" and are often encouraged to ignore the facts. People running businesses should pay close attention to the facts because it tells you much about your business and your likelihood of success. But what are some facts about the Amway business that many people don't know about? I have outlined a few important ones for those who harbor dreams of going diamond.

1. The average diamond, according to Amway, earns about than $150,000 a year. Yes, some of this may be supplemented with money from the sale of tools, but after taxes and business expenses such as travel to and from the many functions that a diamond attends, would leave a diamond living an ordinary middle-class lifestyle, not one with mansions and sports cars as portrayed in many functions or meetings. Yes, a Q12 diamond would have more earnings, but a Q12 diamond is the rare exception, and not the rule. (Amway.com says a Q12 diamond makes over 500K but a Q12 Diamond is the rare exception)  If you truly understand what a Q12 diamond is, you will know what I'm talking about.

2. Most IBOs are NEVER able to sponsor a single downline. Pretty hard to develop six (6) downline platinums when most people cannot sponsor anyone. Even finding people willing to just see the plan can be time consuming and challenging.

3. Most Amway products are purchased (apparently) by IBOs and not sold to customers. Name a real business that sustains itself by having its own workers or salesforce purchase most of the goods. MLM is probably the only business where this occurs. Understandably, it explains why 99%+ of "system" Amway IBOs make nothing or lose money.   Upline might teach Amway's 10 customer rule, but is it actually enforced?

4. For most IBOs, the cost of functions, books, voicemail, and standing orders and other support materials represent the reason why most business building IBOs lose money and it also represents a significant profit for some of the diamonds who sell the materials. BTW, who needs voicemail these days?

5. Not working hard is not necessarily the reason for someone's failure. But conversely, working hard does not equate success in Amway. I would guess that out of those who work hard, it is still a fraction of 1% of hard working IBOs that even attain a significant profit. Doing nothing won't get you anywhere, but in this business, working hard often gets you nowhere as well. It is my informed opinion that the cost of the support materials is the direct reason why so many IBOs lose money, even out of those who work very hard.

I could go on and on, but these are a handful of facts that IBOs and information seekers should be aware of. I welcome differing thoughts and opinions.

Amway Creates Millionaires?

 I keep hearing from some IBOs that they belive that Amway has created more millionaires than any other company in the US. I call BS on that claim. I am not saying that Amway hasn't created any millionaires, obviously, the Amway owners are worth billions of dollars. But what the IBOs are apparently implying is that the diamonds are millionaires. I'm sure there are some diamonds who indeed are millionires, especially if they are tenured diamonds, in particular the double diamonds and higher. But conversely, I believe that many high level diamonds are not millionaires. I believe it is just as common for a diamond to be in debt as it is for a diamond to be living large. I also believe that many diamonds did not accumulate their alleged wealth exclusively from Amway.

The reason why this is an issue is because these big pins will stand on stage and show off excessive wealth and imply that it is their Amway income that pays for these mansions, sports cars, and in some cases, jets. In the US, I attended a function called "Dream Nite" where these kinds of trapping are displayed, to the tune of the song "I wanna be rich". The diamonds would say that you can have what they have, if only you will do what they advise. These functions still go on today and I believe it is now called Winter Conference.

Stanley and Danko's book, "The Millionaire Next Door"
http://www.personalfinanceplaybook.com/2009/08/the-millionaire-next-door/

This book makes some very interesting points which I believe applies to Amway diamonds. I will outline the significant ones and I will comment below:

**Predictably, the data shows that most people who you believe to be very rich are not.

**High net worth individuals, statistically, tend to be people that live within their means. They don’t spend a lot of money. They don’t waste money. They tend to be pretty frugal people.

**The authors point out that most of the richest people you know aren’t driving expensive luxury automobiles. That’s what the people who want everyone to think they’re rich drive. (Like Amway diamonds)

Joe's commentary. The book does say that about 1/3 of millionaires acquired their wealth thru a J-O-B and saved and invested, but did mention that many millionaires were also business owners, such as a pest control company, etc. But based on the points made by the book above, I can see where it is likely that diamonds portray a wealthy lifestyle as a recruitment tactic, when the reality is they may be living very middle class lifestyles off stage, or may even be in debt. I have seen evidence of diamonds having their homes foreclosed and being in debt (Ruth Carter's book: Amway: Behind the Smoke and Mirrors). Recently, there was also a report that a WWDB Triple Diamond filed for bankruptcy. The report indicated that the diamond could not make his mortgages, or something to that tune. Odd, because when I was in WWDB, some of the upline leaders said diamonds paid cash for everything because paying interest to the bank wasn't very smart.   Either the diamonds are lying or they are hypocrites, or both.

My question is why IBOs continue to make up these claims? Try googling millionaire or Amway millionaire. There is nothing to indicate that Amway was responsible for creating the "most millionaires" of any US company. If this were true, wouldn't Amway state it on their website? If someone finds any veracity about this claim, inform me and I will post it.  Try looking at AI.  You'll find the answer interesting.  LOL

Future Amway Retiree Or Quitter?

 Check out this blog post from 2010 from an Amway and WWDB IBO. He is talking about retiring and now it is the year 2026 and he quit more than a dozen years ago.  But you can see all the language that is being parroted by this IBO.   I get that he wants to better his family, but that's how many prospects get sucked in stay in until the light goes on and they wake up and see the light.

http://expeditionoftruths.com/2010/10/18/1-year/


"Well we are coming up to Free Enterprise Day’s in Portland this weekend and with that I’ve come up to my one year anniversary. I’ve also passed the one year anniversary of this blog and where I started out with it. I started it while being a guest at Free Enterprise Day’s supporting Lindsay in what I had originally thought was something completely stupid, something illegal, something that was going to drive a wedge between us and our marriage. Turns out it was quite the opposite.

There is nothing wrong with a healthy scepticism and boy did I have a lot of “health” scepticism. After spending 5 months of doing some actual research, checking out the Amway site, Better Business Bureau, Checking the history of the company, Industry Canada, and yeah even checking out all the negative blogs out there, I came to the conclusion there was nothing wrong with this business and what it stood for. One of the biggest things that really drew me to business was the environmental stewardship this company stood on and I thought I could get behind that and have no problems promoting those great products. It was however the World Wide Dreambuilders that really intrigued me and instead of driving a wedge between our marriage it has helped solidify it even stronger than it was last year. How the heck could a business do that? Cause it’s founded on good core traditional values such as marriage, relationships, personal growth and living debt free. Not bad values if I do say so.

So I say one year because it’s one year when I joined my wife and we became united together and made a decision together to actually build this. Since then we’ve achieved some great milestones and have had some set backs, as with anything in life. We’ve been able to kill off a HUGE amount of consumer debt that we would have still had to this day if it were not for the great coaches, mentors we have. We’ve been able to ride the example our coaches have set out and we are pretty much right on track with where they are and that’s just the power of duplication. I’ve retired my wife so that she never has to give her 1st best to another man ever again. We will be able to raise our kids never having to know what a daycare or day home looks like. Not to offend anyone however that’s not how we want to raise our kids, we’d much rather instil our own values and be there every step of the way.

Looking forward to the future we are pumped to hit Double Eagle Ruby late next year at which time I’ll be stepping away from my job so that I never have to work for another man’s dream and give my 1st best to them. I know that we will work hard at this so that my kids will always have me at home when they need me and not have to wait for me to come home from work. I look forward to the days that we can take our kids out to the ski hill during the week day and not the weekend when it’s jam packed. I look forward to seeing my parents with the kids anytime we want instead of a set amount of vacation time or trying to stretch out a long weekend. There are so many things we look forward to in our second year in business and we know because of the great examples before us we will actually achieve them.

Now please don’t misunderstand me, these are our goals and things we want to achieve. I’m in no way saying you have to build this business. I’ve chosen this vehicle to obtain our goals and the vision we have set out for our family. You don’t have to agree with me and that’s perfectly fine. I only hope that you have a vehicle out there that will allow you to 100% achieve whatever it is you have set out for you and your family.

Here’s to year #2!"

Diamonds Are Forever?

 I've seen some interesting discussion and banter about how a diamond pin is like winning a gold medal. That you don't get it taken away from you later even if you don't qualify anymore. The discussion also flowed as to where they mentioned that former US President Jimmy Carter is still addressed as Mr. President. Or that someone with a Superbowl ring can be addressed as a Superbowl champion. While I agree with that to some degree, I think the issue of diamond or former diamond is significant and different from former President Carter or a former Superbowl Champion. Terry Bradshaw or Joe Montana don't parade around as if they just won the Superbowl last year.

The diamond pin is a significant achievement for sure. Seems that it's even harder to achieve in North America due to the company name reputation which was soured by unethical IBO behavior.  I don't know of more than a few new diamonds emerging in the last twenty five years or so in the US. But if say a diamond qualified in 1988 and never qualified again, how would you as an Amway IBO feel about paying to see this diamond speak function after function and how many would continue to buy standing orders from a guy who may have achieved diamond 25 years ago and never again? Would the audiences be "fired up" to see these speakers? I find this ironic also, because many Amway defenders like to criticize Amway critics for having an outdated experience. Well, conversely, a one time diamond would be basically the same thing. If not, then Joecool should command the respect of a 4000 PV Eagle since that was my highest level.

I actually have no issue with Amway allowing the achiever to carry their highest pin as a recognized achievement, but I do believe that those who use their former pin status to exploit and profit from new IBOs and prospects should be stopped. I know I would not have been so excited attending a function where the keynote speaker went diamond for 6 months a decade ago and was no longer qualified. Else, by upline's definition, he will teach me to go diamond and fall apart? I believe there are fewer North American diamonds now than twenty to twenty five years ago. Some diamonds resigned and some outright quit. So much for residual/passive income. Obviously if these things existed, then nobody would quit or walk away from residual income.

BTW, an article on an Amway Corporate website says this about passive income:
"Passive income is a term we do not permit distributors to use and it’s not a term the Corporation uses. In our business, there is no such thing as doing no work, and expecting money to still come in.” Link:
http://blogs.amway.com/answers/2010/11/02/unwelcome-words/#comments

Still think there's a free ride at the end of the tunnel?

Groupthink?

 http://scamadvocates.com/164-Amway.html

Other November 27 2011

I have read all of these posts. Interesting that everyone who supports Amway cannot spell very well. Lots of typos and grammatical errors in here by those who jump up and down reciting Amway's many virtues. It is a scam and a groupthink phenomenon of staggering proportions. From a psychological perspective, Amway does its best to separate people from those who would challenge its legitimacy and operations. This is not unlike how Hitler or any other leader would silence opponents or dissidents by having them "removed" from the equation. Same thing goes here, Amway teaches people to ignore and remove obstacles and people who challenge the system, even if said challenges are completely rational and offered by people with the IBO's best interest in mind. It hits IBO's in soft spots for family, friends, and freedom (the 3 F's), and it entices them to focus on emotional reasoning rather than very cognitive-based, rational dissection of information.

Amway IBO's are taught emotionalism, not rationalism. From a business perspective, it is a farce. IBO's are no entrepreneurs, as they wear the collars of their uplines. Over and over, I have been told to do as my uplines say. What if my upline is a total moron and I have a law degree and an MBA?? I'm supposed to follow these uplines?? According to the system, yes, the uplines' words are paramount. So no, IBO's are not entrepreneurs and do not gain any real experience. IBO is a fancy name for distributor, pure and simple.

I had the opportunity to meet a number of "diamonds" and "emeralds" recently, all of whom had either left the business to get real jobs or were still struggling bringing in about $30,000 per year. Many of them are posting massive losses, and by the way, the IRS does not consider pro-suming OR tickets to a convention (to hear Yager scream at you) to be business expenses. Good luck trying to recover those losses. It is a pyramid scheme simply because mathematically and considering the law of averages, a downline cannot really earn more than his upline. It just doesn't happen - it's a nice idea, but it doesn't happen. I worked through multiple scenarios with a friend, trying to see how I could out-earn my upline, and we found several variables that would keep that from happening.

Finally, on a personal level, this Amway monkey business cost me a great friendship, an IBO who decided that taking a chance on some crazy dream was more important than those who loved him most. I think he will continue prospecting and pushing "the plan" until there isn't anyone left. If you know someone in Amway or who is thinking seriously about it, you need to realize that they will soon be lost. Amway people are very much like crack users (very similar psychopathology, actually), and they will choose Amway over you, their family, their friends, and anything that gets in the way.

What Matters?

 Check out this blog, written by a WWDB IBO named Shaun. Shaun seems like a nice guy and all, but I think his way of thinking may have been negatively affected by upline teaching. He is saying the Superbowl isn't that important and that he will be spending time with family. And I agree! In the big picture of things, the Superbowl is just a game. Sure, one of the biggest events of the year, but when it's said and done, it still is just a game. I mean if you had to choose between an important family matter and a game, there's not much choice.

See "Shaun's" post: http://expeditionoftruths.com/2011/02/06/super-bowl-what/

An excerpt: Sports are there for our enjoyment and there is nothing wrong with that, but when it comes between spending quality time with my wife or soon to be kid, that’s where I’ll draw a line. I think if people cared more about their family life instead of the damn football maybe there would be less divorce, maybe there would be less fighting, maybe less family pain? Who knows, I don’t have the answers but I can tell you it would be a start that’s for sure

The interesting aspect of this blog post you see, is that Shaun's upline leaders were the same ones I had as an IBO. We were told things like never miss a function, unless it was for a funeral - your funeral. Or we should attend ALL meetings and functions. All means all, what don't you understand about that? Some folks ended up missing or cancelling important family events to be able to attend Amway functions. IBOs skip church and important church events for Amway meetings.

I wonder what will happen if Shaun's anniversary falls on the same weekend as a major function? What about a child's birthday? Or your kid's hockey games? I have a strange feeling that it's perfectly okay to reschedule or miss something like that if it's for an Amway function or meeting. I wonder what Shaun will tell his upline or downline when they have family events conflicting with an Amway/WWDB function? If you truly value your family as he is saying, then you would miss the Amway WWDB function if there is a conflict with family matters. Not reschedule them. I have heard many IBOs justify missing church or cancelling or rescheduling family outings because of business meetings. Where's the vertical alignment then?

So what really matters? Your family or that next Amway/WWDB function?

Marriage Testimonial?

 http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/will-amway-make-you-annoying/comment-page-12/#comment-92192

■DoAsISay on January 8th, 2012 9:31 pm
I finally decided to search the web after being out of Amway now since February 2011. I was hesitant to do so because I had been told not to so many times by my uplines that there is negative on the internet even about Mother Teresa. That was the “line” that they used to trick me into not doing my research. I am a college graduate with a bachelors degree in accounting and I was taught to always research a company to learn more about them if you are going to be involved with them. Anyways, I am glad that I did because I now realize that I am not the only one who disagrees with Amway and their approaches to “the business”.

A little more background about my situation which I’m sure is not unique to many others who have been in Amway. My girlfriend and I were introduced to this business by a friend of my girlfriend and her husband. From the presentation that was shown to me I thought that it sounded VERY easy to do. I was told that I only needed 3 friends out of my 200 contacts in my phone to want to save money and make money at the same time. That was the first lie that I later found out. First of all, we didnt save any money. We threw away over $7000 and saw under $300 return. How exactly am I saving money? Secondly, IF, IF you get (trick) 3 friends to signed up, you have alot more work to do than that. Try 50 people and by the time u get 50 people involved, 48 of those will have quit once they finally realize that you took advantage of them and weren’t straight forward with them.

So Time went on and I hung around and observed the behaviors of people in Amway and how they talked. I said to myself, I want to be nothing like these people. They all sounded the same to me and it was just a little weird. Finally I realize that they have all been brainwashed how to think, how to spend their money, who they spend their time with, and how they spend their time. Amway with the help of the “EDUCATION” has completely taken control of the lives of many, many naive, weak minded, gullible, ignorant, or too trusting (you fill in the blank) individuals who worship their upline like they are God. Sure I thought it was cool that I knew a millionaire and got to hang out at his house and all, but Im not going to empty my bank account for anyone! How about this line…”You don’t make money FROM your friends when they get involved, Your making money WITH your friends”. WHAT?!? Last time I checked anyone you sponsor in the business, you collect their business volume from the stuff they buy and get a kickback from those purchases. I believe that’s called making money FROM your friends. They have another sneaky tactic that they use to conceal the truth. “You’re not making money from your friends, Amway is paying you for driving volume to their website. Ok, Yeah that’s still making money from your friends. Im not an idiot and your blender of words and phrases don’t have any effect on me.

Back to November 2010, I got married to my girlfriend I was in the business with and shortly after she became an Ambot as I’ve heard people refer to it. In February 2011, i had enough of it and decided to cut my loses and get out. My wife didn’t share the same thoughts and feelings though because she had been soaking in every last drop of the expensive “Education” we were receiving. Up until the point of me getting out of the business since I had known her, we NEVER had an argument. We were inseparable and much in love. That all changed as time progressed. We started disagreeing and this horrible person came out of her as I never seen before. She physically hit me on 3 occasions and we would fight, mostly her, as I like to be calm and collective. I rather reason things out by gathering the facts and explaining my perspective. Her reasoning went out the door with her mind because everything out of her mouth was something about the business.

I spent many nights home alone waiting for her to get back from those stupid waste of time meetings. Eventually in October I had enough. We got in another fight and she asked me to leave, so I did! Now supposedly when a woman says leave, that means dont leave in translation, but I took it at face value and left. We are currently separated and in the process of filing for a dissolution. I never thought Amway could destroy a marriage like that, but I’ve read so many sad stories where has done just that. Like I said, I’m sure my story isn’t a unique one, but I just wanted to share in hopes that I can TRULY HELP people steer clear of this plague. Not only will it empty your bank account, waste time you could be living your life and enjoying the company of family and true friends, it will destroy your relationships with the ones you love. These people that were in our business call themselves Christians, yet they can easily let a marriage be destroyed and not even flinch. Greed and lies are all I see in these people!

I would like to sit my wife down and show her some information so maybe, just maybe she will snap out of it, but I feel like she is so programmed at this point that I won’t be able to get her to read it. If anybody actually reads my entire story (I know its long) and has any advice on getting her out let me know. I got nothing to lose at this point since I’ve pretty much lost the love of my life.

Avoid The Name "Amway"?

 I often find it comical that to this day, I still see people who like to hide the Amway name when recruiting others. I believe this tactic has been a major factor in why Amway has a bad reputation in North America. When I was recruited, I was lied to as well. I was invited to a "beer bust" only to find out it was an Amway meeting. I went home that night thinking WTH was that? They lie to us and then expect us to join the business. And to this day, I believe this practice continues. They might use another name such as "Liberty Marketing" or "Worldwide Group" to mask the opportunity they are pitching. My question is why?

Over the years, IBOs have tried all kinds of ways to disguise the Amway opportunity. In the past, it was network marketing, e-commerce, online shopping mall and the corporation even changed Amway in North America to "Quixtar". Sadly, the name change to quixtar did not work, probably because the same tactics were used when recruiting new IBOs into Quixtar. Amway eventually changed the name back to Amway. I believe this bad reputation in North America is why Amway, in years past, enjoyed the most business growth overseas where people either do not know the Amway name, and likely because there haven't been enough former Amway/AMO victims to soil the name in other countries. As markets mature and people get to know about Amway, we see what is happening now. Amway revenues have plummeted from 11.8 billion in 2013 to 8.8 billion (global) in 2016. That's a serious decline!

So IBOs, how can you expect someone to trust you and do business with you if you are deceitful or outright lie about the Amway opportunity? Are you ashamed of the Amway name? If you are ashamed or scared to drop the "A bomb" on people, how will you ever be able to show any plans, let alone sponsoring anyone into the business? My former sponsor used to tell our group that the biggest challenge is overcoming the name Amway. To be fair, Amway the corporation is not the reason for the bad reputation. It is the unethical and bad behavior of IBOs that lead to a bad reputation but on the other hand, it's not the like Amway police have been cracking down and visibly taking action against the violators, so Amway is also guilty to some degree.

Conversely, people who come right out and talk about Amway are unlikely to net any decent results because of the past reputation. It's an almost no-win situation for IBOs and prospects. For these reasons, I believe it to be nearly impossible to build and maintain a group, especially if your goal is to reach diamond. It seems as if more diamonds have left Amway in recent years than there have been new diamonds. I believe this to be spot on for WWDB, my former LOS. So IBOs, are you ashamed of Amway? If not, why are there still so many IBOs using trickery and deception in recruiting prospects?

If you avoid using the Amway name, what are you ashamed of?

Integrity? Really?

 I've used to follow the blog of a WWDB IBO named "Shaun". He used to run the blog called "Expeditions Of Truth" http://expeditionoftruths.com/ ***Update*** It appears Shaun is no longer in the Amway business. His blog is gone. He doesn't respond to messages and his twitter account no longer mentions "Amway". He is another former fired up IBO who saw some limited success only to quit and fail.

He seems to think that not only is he in business with people full of integrity, but he also thinks that he is going to retire in November 2011. This is now August 2015. While I think doing business with people of integrity is a good thing, I also know of many successful people in business who are ruthless. So, are Amway people full of integrity or are they just as ruthless as other businesspeople? Does it matter? In my opinion, it doesn't matter except for the fact that WWDB people seem to think that they have integrity filled leaders.

Well, lets look at some of these leaders. Back in the 1990's, the current batch of WWDB leaders swore that nobody made a profit on tools. Nobody knew the truth at the time. We now know that this was a lie. Is this integrity? We know that Greg Duncan was in chapter 7 bankruptcy proceedings. Not paying for your obligations is integrity? We know that Greg Duncan and David Shores had homes foreclosed (Public information). Is that a move filled with integrity? With the tons of money Duncan and Shores make, couldn't they have made an effort to pay off their debts? Where's that integrity that they themselves have probably taught?

If you look at a blog linked to this one "Rocket's Rants", there's a YouTube video of "crown" Brad Duncan telling rank and file IBOs that they can make "hundreds of thousands of dollars" a month. First of all, I wonder if Brad Duncan has achieved this himself, let alone any others? Even if someone had achieved it, it would be illegal or unethical to portray that kind of success as achievable to a prospect. So was Brad acting illegally or unethically? Is that integrity?

Brad Wolgamott used to talk about how WWDB had a low divorce rate. Is it full on integrity for WWDB leaders to separate or divorce when they talk about integrity and how Amway and WWDB saves marriages? What about Dean Kosage? Another divorcee? Are they full of integrity? What say you Shaun Guthrie of WWDB? What about Howie Danzik whose website doesn't mention that he was once married to Susan? Is it integrity to say you built the business as a single when Howie previously built the business with his former wife?

Amway's owner Rich DeVos acknowledged that the "tools" were likely a pyramid scam and Amway did nothing after sales dropped following some attempts to clean it up. Is that an integrity move? I don't know but
it sure seems as if WWDB and Amway have issues where integrity is concerned. What if someone is a complete asshat and decides to join Amway? Does that person suddenly have integrity?

Now there's some food for thought.

IBO Doesn't Understand Taxes?

 I came across this blog and while I've seen similar posts by Amway business owners, this one was interesting because of the detail and the passion the blog author has. In a nutshell, he lost money in Amway but calls it success because after he received his tax refund, he's now claiming to have a net profit. It's amazing what these Amway/WWDB leaders can get people to believe.

https://transparencyofadreamer.wordp...sing-in-amway/

Below are excerpts. The blog owner claims to have made a net gain due to a tax refund. He doesn't explain how he arrived at that refund but apparently his losses in Amway lowered his tax liability for whatever income tax was already withheld from either his paycheck (job) or from paying estimated taxes in advance for a business or some other venture. It's quite scary and illustrates how some people can hang on in Amway for so long even when suffering losses. The IBO's are programmed to "think" they actually made money!

Based on what they have taught me, even though I barely had any increase in my overall organization (ie: I was pathetically lazy, didn’t put any work in and barely increased the size of organization – #sadface) I STILL DID NOT LOSE MONEY!

2013 total Cost Run Down:
Communikate: $443.40
Digital Delivery: $300.00
Premier Membership: $599.40
Major Functions: $595.00
Major Function Hotels: $750.00
Business Support Materials: $240.00
Total Business Cost: $2927.80

Lets bring it all together here, folks.

Total Amway Payout in 2013: $2112.36
Total Cost To Run Business: -$2927.80
= $-815.44

Just like I said last year – “Oh No! I’ve been scammed! I’ve lost money! My upline lied to me! I didn’t put in any work to sponsor anyone this last year and its everyone’s fault but mine! The business doesn’t work! What a total scam!!!”

Hold on now Mr. Negative – Due to running my own business in a country that incentivises business owners to run their own business I received tax benefits that entitled me to a refund for the 2013 year in the amount of $2409.76. Lets do this again, shall we?

Total Amway Payout in 2013: $2112.36
Total Cost To Run Business: -$2927.80
Total Tax Refund For 2013: $2409.76
= $1594.32

So, as I wrap up I hope I made my point very clear – you will not lose money running your own Amway Business powered by World Wide Dreambuilders…. IF you are diligent with your finances, if you don’t blow your budget your coach sets with you. You WILL lose money running your own Amway Business powered by ANY training system IF you don’t have a budget, if you don’t ask for help to set a budget, if you ignore your budget etc.

If your potential sponsor is affiliated with WWDB and is doing what they are taught, you should be educated on some of the numbers I shared above in regards to cost for access to your training and mentorship system.

Failure By Design?

 One of the things my Amway upline always pushed on us was the tools system. While the tools are said to be optional, they are not promoted that way. They were promoted as vital, necessary, almost as if you were insane to try and build an Amway business without tools. Basically, the tools were a defacto requirement. My upline always claimed that nobody ever "made it" without tools. Some Amway defenders insist that the tools work, and that IBOs who were on the system proved it with higher levels of success and product volume. But the tools work for maybe a fraction of 1% of IBOs who try them. The vast majority of people who use tools make nothing or lose money. Similar to a lottery.

IBOs participating in the system (voicemail, book of the month, standing orders, functions, etc) do more PV. I believe this is true, but it is true, only because once the upline can convince you to participate in the system, then that same IBO is also convinced that they should or must do 100 PV as part of the deal. People who aren't convinced that the system is vital, subsequently do not purchase or sell as much PV because they have not been convinced that moving PV will make them successful or wealthy.

Critics and Amway supporters have debated this issue for years, but clearly, the evidence supports my position. Why? Because if there was a true demand for Amway products because of their quality and/or value, then there wouldn't be such a steep drop off in movement of volume when an IBO becomes a former IBO. Many, probably most former IBOs never buy a single Amway product once they leave the business. If the products had true quality and value as Amway supporters claim, why don't people continue to purchase 100 PV per month when they quit? Because they never wanted or needed all of that product in the first place? If former Amway IBOs continued to but products, Amway sales would continue to increase. Amway's sales and revenues dropped more than 25% from 2014 to now (2018).

If someone is convinced that Amway will be their financial savior and that by using tools and moving 100 PV will result in long term financial security and residual income as claimed by upline, then that is what they will do in hopes of achieving the end goal. When that goal or dream doesn't materialize, the former IBOs realize that the tools and products no longer have the value they once thought they had. How many former IBOs will buy standing order or attend functions? If these materials really made you nicer, or saved marriages, why don't any former IBOs keep buying them? Why do some Amway IBOs resort to selling them for pennies on the dollar on Ebay or Craigslist? What happened to the great return policy?

Bottom line is that the tools ineffective.  Is seems as if some IBOs success in spite of, not because of the tools.  They only work for the uplines who directly profit from the sale of tools, plus the artificial demand in product sales created by those IBOs who are convinced that Amway will make them rich. Once the reality sets in that Amway will not make them rich, and that the tools are simply draining their resources, then the demand or tools and Amway products disappears almost instantly. There is no unbiased evidence that I know of to suggest that these tools work, and basically, the miserable number of new diamonds emerging in the US seems to confirm this fact.