Saturday, February 26, 2011

Amway - Life Goes On?

As I said in a previous post, I am a former Amway distributor, or IBO. While I was active, my life was consumed by Amway and Amway related activities. If I wasn't at a meeting or showing the plan, I was at coffee shops or at other public places looking to meet potential recruits to add to my group. I was in Worldwide Group at the time and I was always taught that we were "helping people". I dedicated my life to the "cause".

Looking back, we didn't help anyone who didn't join the business. Even those who joined didn't actually receive "help". The help that my upline refered to was simply someone upline showing the plan and helping active IBOs to recruit others. Sometimes this was done for free and sometimes you paid (for open meetings). Every opportunity was used to look for recruits, even weddings and other social events. We never provided anything unless prospects were interested in Amway. If they were not interested, that was end of any help they received. My sponsor would say "They're not bad people, but they just don't get it", meaning they don't see Amway as their financial savior.

When I finally realized that the Amway opportunity was not going to deliver lifelong residual income for me, and due to some conflict with my sponsor, I decided to leave the business. Well, all my lifelong Amway friends never spoke to me again. Most of my group quit except a few of them. Allegedly, one of them continued on in the business and allegedly reached the platinum level. All that means to me is this person continued to be brainwashed and spent tens of thousands of dollars on tools.

The really strange thing for me was after I left the Amway opportunity and Worldwide group, I suddenly realized how much extra time I had on my hands. I also realized that I had extra cash to save as my income wasn't being consumed by PV and support materials. I was able to save and invest some of that surplus and I am glad that I did today. At of this writing, I am living very comfortably because of my J-O-B.

As time passed, I also read and heard about some of my crossline friends losing their homes and/or going bankrupt. I am fairly certain that their consumption of standing orders and function attendance was a major factor in their lives. I also discovered through various media that our WWDB leaders had lied to the downline about tool profits. They had said nobody made a profit from tools. I later found that some of them made most of their income from tools. These leaders have never been held accountable for their lies.

I also discovered later that some uplines lied about paying for their homes in cash, and who knows what they may be lying about today. I believe upline greed has led to many of the problems the business opportunity faces today. I started to learn about some of this back in 2003 - 2004 and I eventually registered as a member on Quixtar blog. I have been debating Amway since then.

The best discovery I have made was that life goes on quite nicely after Amway!

98 comments:

Anonymous said...

ya got THAT right, bud!

Anonymous said...

Someone is trying to recruit me into the "World Wide Group" to start an online business to sell Amway products to people. They keep mentioning how they're helping people yada yada. Anyways, I would just like to pick your brain a little or for you to give me your inside info on the subject so I can avoid what seems like a massive mistake to get involved with! Thanks!
email me @ w-verville@hotmail.com

Anonymous said...

I am also like Anonymous above. Someone in World Wide Group is telling me about it and I don't know what all to make of it as yet. Any thoughts on the company and more specific things I should know? If you're able to email me: integritystandard9@yahoo.com

Anonymous said...

just read more of joe's blog!

Anonymous said...

I have been approached by a couple who wants me to join their team with World Wide Group and Amway. Can you please let me know more information before I make my decision. Thank you. Email : Christinatxgirl@yahoo.com

Joecool said...

Feel free to contact me. My email and contact info is on my profile. Ask questions, do your research and due diligence. If they tell you not to, be very afraid. Ask your sponsor and some other uplines to show you (with proof) that they are making the kind of net income they are selling you on. If they refuse, be very afraid. Good luck

Anonymous said...

I am a current member...I am sorry your up line was not helpful. Mine is....it's the people that you worked with not the program. This group has not only motivated me to help people randomly while not prospecting. But to help and communicate as much as possible down line. Good luck with everything I wish you financial freedom anyway.

Anonymous said...

Mr. Joecool I was in a line of sponsorship back in 2010 I understand how you feel. The reason for you not getting anywhere is cause of the line of sponsorship you had. I changed my line of sponsorship and I am so stoked I did it is not all about spending money it's about being core and learning first that is what I am doing now and it has helped tremendously.

Joecool said...

How did you go about changing your line of sponsorship? Did you sit out 6 months?

Anonymous said...

I have a couple trying to recruit me. They keep telling me how much of a millionaire I will become and that I will be able to retire in two years. I don't believe it's a scam yet I know I am being lied to because they told me from the first meeting that they are not a recruiting network marketing agent. But they are. Everything they have said to me sounds so scripted and I just don't trust it deep down. I know amway make work for some but it's not working for me. It sounds a lot like wake up now, where you have to get others under you to make more money. So, you have pretty much answered my question lol thank you

Joecool said...

Do you really believe you can become a millionaire buying and selling soap and vitamins?

klutzy247 said...

I really encourage you to do more research and open your eyes to the idea of Network Marketing. It is about helping people and creating financial freedom outside of a job. You don't actually have to SELL anything.

Joecool said...

How does a business profit without selling anything?

Unknown said...

I’ve been involved with amway on and off over the years, this included Quixtar and a couple of other subsidiaries.. While there is a lot of fraud and it can be time consuming.
You should take a look at the business as a tool. For learning, use that learning to strategize and execute for your own goals. – don’t let the business, functions, lines etc consume your life. and don’t fall into the traps of oh, I have to do this or that, learn, set a budget, manage your time. The concept behind the tapes or books is to help you learn. If you want to share that, awesome, but also don’t let yourself or anyone you share that info with become hoodwinked, and then you’ll create a strong network, which may help you build that bonus value. Amway is not and has never been a get rich quick plan

Joecool said...

Amway's a not get rich at all plan. If people were told upfront about all the tool profits (the real business) that uplines get rich off of, how many people would sign up for Amway and how many would sign up for tools?

I'll bet both numbers would drop dramatically without the lies, hype and hard sell.

Anonymous said...

This just saved me from what would've been a really awkward "face to face meeting." No wonder they kept avoiding my questions, soap products? no thanks.

Joecool said...

Avoiding your questions while recruiting you into a business opportunity should be a "stop" sign with bells and whistles.

william said...

You gave up the oppurtunity of a lifetime!

Anon said...

Thank you Joecool! I am finally old enough now to listen to that "beware" sign that my brain has flashed me over the years! My wife and I are being "courted" by the evasive group now! That ends today! Thanks again.

Anonymous said...

Thank you Joe Cool! We are in meet three coming up, and still have the same questions as meet one! ( This ends today. ) Glad I bumped into your Blog. Back to making money the old fashioned way. Hahaha Take Care

Joecool said...

Good for you! I'm glad you were able to access important information here!

klutzy247 said...

You are shopping from yourself. You are going to go out and buy consumable goods for yourself either way. Why not make a profit from it? And build yourself mentally, emotionally and become an amazing leader. I'm sure working for 40+ years sounds like a much better option then.

klutzy247 said...

It's not recruiting because they don't care whether you get in or not. NEXT! Its about helping people create an income that they wouldn't have had working a job.

Joecool said...

That's the broke mentality your upline taught you. You think you own a business but all you are is a glorified customer of Amway, who actually makes the money.

Joecool said...

Then how come hardly anyone in income makes any money?

Think like an owner said...

It's good you gave amway a shot and formulated your own opinion. That's development I'd say but maybe this way of thinking and living wasn't meant for you because you have a "comfortable" "employee" mentality. That's fine. More power to you. For those that have vision of going beyond working for someone else the rest of their lives, it's worth at least exploring for yourself and not making your decision based on what one person's negative experience was. If it's not for you then it's not for you. Move on. Either way Amway will continue to do business well into the future. It's been going for 50+ years, who's to say when it will stop? Or if it ever will? Do your own research!

Joecool said...

Maybe you didn't notice that Amway sales dropped 12% this past year. Now that Amway has gone into China, there is little room for expansion and the real life saturation is taking place, especially with Amway's reputation.

If you want to run a business, open up a street corner lemonade stand. Much more lucrative than an Amway business.

Unknown said...

Hi Joe, thank you very much for your information. Just yesterday I had my first Coffee with one of these people and they just denied a hundred times what the business is about they said I had to keep going to meetings to find out; she didn't even want to give me the website because I was not trustworthy. She kept saying that the business side or "passive income" was just a 5% of the whole thing and that the true purpose is to get a mentor, let him help me and then I would be able to help others. The words, "hep" and trust" were said at least some 15 time during the hour. I couldn´t stop thinking why in the world do hey feel they need to desperately help people.. how? Are they psychologists? Therapists of any kind? This woman never mentioned Amway or even what ype of activity they do; she refused vehemently saying that if I wanted to find out I would have to read a book and attend some meetings to complete "the process"; this way we could get to know each other and gain our trust.....Well, that was a hard no for me.
However, I am curious (since I was refused to get some more details) now that you mentioned that the money comes from the "tools", I wanted to ask you what those tools are.

Canadiangirl said...

Hi Joe, thank you very much for your information. Just yesterday I had my first Coffee with one of these people and they just denied a hundred times what the business is about they said I had to keep going to meetings to find out; she didn't even want to give me the website because I was not trustworthy. She kept saying that the business side or "passive income" was just a 5% of the whole thing and that the true purpose is to get a mentor, let him help me and then I would be able to help others. The words, "hep" and trust" were said at least some 15 time during the hour. I couldn´t stop thinking why in the world do hey feel they need to desperately help people.. how? Are they psychologists? Therapists of any kind? This woman never mentioned Amway or even what ype of activity they do; she refused vehemently saying that if I wanted to find out I would have to read a book and attend some meetings to complete "the process"; this way we could get to know each other and gain our trust.....Well, that was a hard no for me.
However, I am curious (since I was refused to get some more details) now that you mentioned that the money comes from the "tools", I wanted to ask you what those tools are.

Anonymous said...

Success does not come to all who sign-up in Amway/WWDB. Success in Amway is like success in any other business - rare. I had moderate success in Amway but could not get past differences with my immediate upline Diamond. I should have handled it different, but I was mad. In the end I had no beef with Amway or WWDB. What I learned in Amway allowed me to to open another business outside Amway. The money and time spent in WWDB gave me the knowledge to open/run a successful business.

Joecool said...

Of course, getting scammed in Amway and WWDB helps you learn what not to do in the real business.

Anonymous said...

Joe your so ignorant, you got jealous and mad that your upline and WWDB was making money and you felt you were lied to. So now you have created this waste of time blog to steer other people away from a great and life changing opportunity. I've been part of Amway and WWDB for 13 years. I haven't made a ton of money but with the values and teachings from those tools I paid for in which yes my upline made a small profit. This changed my life. These books and audio teaching have saved my marriage, made me a better father, husband and person. I was a better employee and even became debt free. Because I used the tools provided to me. Why would I be upset for my upline or WWDB making a profit on my purchases??? Other book retail stores would have made the profit. Why is it ok for the other Corp to make all the profit? I will tell you if it was not for this business opportunity and WWDB leaders teachings, the books I read and counsel I received. I would be a divorced, broke, depressed person with no hope. This business means more to a lot of people than just making money. Of coarse making money is important to survive. But sometimes people are going through more important things than just needing to make money. Listen if I can show someone a vehicle that has the potential to make them a great income and also help them with other issues of their life that they may be looking for answer In and potentionally help save their marriage, family, help with depression, financial stuff etc. I will continue introducing people to this business and the Great group of people in WWDB organization. Even if I personally never put in the hard work to become a diamond or beyond I can say I have helped people. So lastly if you think this blog is helping anyone your wrong. You could be steering people away from the answer to what they have been looking for. Being successful doesn't just mean making a lot of money, it about all aspects of your life.

Joecool said...

""you felt you were lied to."" No, I didn't feel I was lied to. Bold faced lies were told by WWDB leaders.

"" I've been part of Amway and WWDB for 13 years. I haven't made a ton of money"" So Amway is a hobby for you and not a business. That means your expenses aren't even deductible.

""These books and audio teaching have saved my marriage, made me a better father, husband and person. I was a better employee"" That's nice but has nothing to do with Amway and WWDB.

""Why would I be upset for my upline or WWDB making a profit on my purchases???"" You might if they lied and aid they made no profit while telling you to buy 9 extra cds ever week, plus buy extra function tickets for each function.

"" I will tell you if it was not for this business opportunity and WWDB leaders teachings, the books I read and counsel I received. I would be a divorced, broke, depressed person with no hope."" Odd, WWDB leaders has divorcees who advocated for marriage (Wolgamott, Kosage).

"" So lastly if you think this blog is helping anyone your wrong. You could be steering people away from the answer to what they have been looking for. Being successful doesn't just mean making a lot of money, it about all aspects of your life.""

This is where you are DEAD WRONG. The vast majority of people make nothing or lose money because of Amway and WWDB. Not joining at all is a sound financial decision. I can tell you about people who became bankrupt because of Amway and WWDB and that some people's marriages broke up with Amway and WWDB being major factors as to why.

Even if you are truthful about your experience, you are a very very rare exception. And I'd say whatever benefit you received was not directly from Amway or WWDB. You could have had similar results from joining a church or a support group.

Being successful isn't all about money. I agree. But Amway is a business so if you're not making money, then business wise, you are not successful.

My blog is just that. Nobody is forced to visit and read my posts. But hundreds of thousands of people have read my material and greatly benefitted from it so I'm not prepared to give it up.


Anonymous said...

You brag about how many people view your blog and allow them to see YOUR opinions. It is quite clear that you pick and choose which comments you allow to be published.

Let's be honest, Amway is in no way shape or form a SCAM. If you truly believe they are a scam, I suggest you get on the phone with the FTC, and let them know there is this billion dollar business that has been around since 1959 that is going around and scamming everyone since they obviously were too blind to see what you see.

Just because you failed at a business opportunity does not mean the company is by default a scam. Let me ask you this...Have you EVER succeeded at owning a business? So, is it the business that failed you or did you fail the business? It is the curse and blessing of MLM...it is too easy to get into due to such low cost to get started. This allows people who should never be in business in the first place to give companies like Amway a shot, and then bitch online once they realize that they are not cut out for something like this or because they went into the business with unrealistic expectations such as expecting to get rich quick, or thinking the business can be built with little to no effort on their part.

I can see why you never succeeded in Amway (or any MLM for that matter), you never learned how to effectively communicate with people or take responsibility for the failures in your life. That is why you had to create this blog where you can control what is posted instead of allowing an open forum.

I am sure you will not post this to your website, but I will just have to get the satisfaction out of you reading it and realizing how correct my words are. Enjoy your cry baby attitude in life, and continue to always blame blame blame instead of taking responsibility.

Anonymous said...

I just want to point out that Amway offers more than just soaps and vitamins. They are also partnered with a large number of fortune 500 companies who offer discounted rates on their products, when purchased through Amway. (I guess Apple, Target, BustBuy, Sears, etc, didn't know they were getting into bed with a scam when they signed the dotted line.... oh wait, it's not a scam. it's a distribution company that has been around for 47 years and has no debt.)

Joecool said...

No, Amway is a scam. They used to partner with Enron and Worldcom. But the term "partner" is misleading. Amway sells the products of "partner" stores but the "partner" stores don't sell Amway products.

Who said Amway has no debt? That's an old lie. They financed some of their expansion which is not a bad idea, but it's a lie to say they have no debt.

John Doe said...

Anonymous said,

"They are also partnered with a large number of fortune 500 companies who offer discounted rates on their products, when purchased through Amway. (I guess Apple, Target, BustBuy, Sears, etc, didn't know they were getting into bed with a scam when they signed the dotted line.... oh wait, it's not a scam. it's a distribution company that has been around for 47 years and has no debt.)"

This is one of my favorite IBO lines, because they don't realize they are in a business of selling and not buying. When you start a business you are supposed to be providing a good or service, but in Amway all you do is consume goods or services and then teach others to do the same. This is no exception with the "partner" stores as they utilize the Amway network to sell more products...that's why they "partner" with Amway. They are just utilizing Amway as a marketing tool to sell more of their stuff to misinformed IBO's.

Not only do you not sell stuff that comes from "Apple, Target, Best Buy, Sears, etc.", but it would probably not be legal to resell that stuff without proper licensing. I don't understand how IBO's don't realize that they are just glorified customers at this point...At least with the Amway products, you are allowed to get rid of them.

Anonymous said...

That stupid verb "to partner" should be banned from the English language. Amway freaks use it endlessly, like a mantra.

The Amway racket has never "partnered" with anyone. Big companies sometimes allow Amway to sell their products, that's all. Claiming that this is a partnership is like saying that a whore's half-hour tryst in a hotel room with an anonymous guy is a marriage.

Joecool said...

IBOs like to use the "partner" store names as credibility, but fail to mention that Amway also partnered with Enron and WorldCom at one time. The term partner is misleading because as mentioned, Amway IBOs get to buy and sell the "partner" store products but those "partners" don't sell Amway stuff.

Anonymous said...

It is truly amazing how all these a way freaks sounds exactly the same.
Same terms and language used on their post and meetings, is like talking to a robot.

Brittany Romance said...

It's all in the way you look at it. If you live in America all you are is a consumer and a worker. If you work in a traditional job setting upward mobility is limited, income is limited and in most cases you are very replaceable but entrepreneurship isn't for everyone and WorldWide/ Amway isn't for everyone. Also as a consumer, you don't make any money at all. At least if you buy from yourself you get some of that money back. Same for people who make their money frok affiliate marketing. All they do is shop their and direct people to certain companies but you could also call them product pushers.
Anyways it's all about perspective and what you want out of life, how hard you are willing to work, and how long you're willing to wait for your reward.
And also I feel it's a bit disrespectful to be critical of a whole company for your bad experience. If I go to Petsmart and the workers are rude, I can't just generalize one Petsmart to all the rest. Because each person along with their upline is their own business, they can choose to run it differently. Just my opinion as someone who respects business people and entrepreneurs

Anonymous said...

To Brittany Romance:

First off, it's not a question of "perspective," but of plain facts. This website and many others have pointed out, over and over, for several decades now, how utterly corrupt and fraudulent the Amway MLM racket is.

You had one bad experience at Petsmart? OK, maybe that's not representative of the company as a whole. But dammit, Brittany, there are literally hundred of people who have come to these anti-Amway websites to complain about how they were treated and ripped off! After a while, the numbers of the complaints and the horror stories have to be taken seriously!

Then you give the same old tired story about "buying from yourself." Have you ever stopped to analyze what utter crap that idea is? All you are getting is a minor discount and a credit on the purchase of some mediocre products that you probably don't need. How the bloody hell are you going to get rich that way?

And guess what? In Amway,"upward mobility is limited, income is limited, and in most cases you are very replaceable." Those are your own words. Now go ask anybody who has struggled for years in Amway and has never gotten more than $100 per month as a bonus check if Amway is the answer to your financial hopes and dreams.

Get smart, Brittany. And get the hell out of Amway while you can.

John Doe said...

Brittany Romance,

Your name is well-suited, because you are not an entrepreneur and you do not have the "mindset of an entrepreneur". Rather, you have the mindset of a romance fantasy character that believes everyone can have a dream, and Amway/WWDB is the answer to the prayers of the masses as they have no hope otherwise.

"If you work in a traditional job setting upward mobility is limited, income is limited and in most cases you are very replaceable but entrepreneurship isn't for everyone and WorldWide/ Amway isn't for everyone."

In a traditional job "upward mobility" (I'm guessing you mean promotions) is very viable, and if you do a good job, stay the course, and show initiative, then you can rise within a company quickly. I'm always curious as to how people get to this sort of logic that "upward mobility" is better in Amway than it is in a traditional business...there is no "upward mobility" in Amway, and it is actually the most stuck business position you will ever be. You cannot rise in Amway, you can simply get people to jump in below you...if someone is above you, then they will always be above you NO MATTER WHAT (yes you could make more, but regardless you will not rise above them). This "upward mobility" jargon is just a programmed, steamy pile of...

"Also as a consumer, you don't make any money at all. At least if you buy from yourself you get some of that money back."

Except...you don't. In fact, you spend more buying from "your store" than you do from Target or Walmart, because they charge retail while "your store" charges 300-500% above retail while giving you back somewhere in the neighborhood of 10%. This again, is nonsense your sponsors and uplines have told you, because they know you can't do math or figure out the truth.

"Anyways it's all about perspective and what you want out of life, how hard you are willing to work, and how long you're willing to wait for your reward."

It isn't about "perspective" it's about earning and making smart decisions based on your position in the market place. At the end of the day, your perspective isn't worth anything without money in your pocket...fair?

The last part of your statement reveals how much of a dreamer you are...wait for your reward? How about going out and earning it! Watch your hard work actually materialize instead of waiting for some "reward".

"And also I feel it's a bit disrespectful to be critical of a whole company for your bad experience. If I go to Petsmart and the workers are rude, I can't just generalize one Petsmart to all the rest. Because each person along with their upline is their own business, they can choose to run it differently."

No, it isn't disrespectful, and that is how the world works! If you go to a TGI Friday's and the wait staff is awful, you make a complaint to TGI's Corporate and then they take action. They have a specific department designed to handle customer resolutions, and they are liable for ALL ACTIONS from their employees. Nobody sues an employee for being bad, they go after the company, because they are responsible for hiring the employee...PERIOD.

They aren't their own business, they have no ownership rights to run it anyway they want (no creative ability, marketing ability, distributing ability...they have 0 CONTROL). You don't have control of other people who become "distributors", you don't have control of what your upline (boss...ooo that dreadful word) does, you have NOTHING!

"Just my opinion as someone who respects business people and entrepreneurs"

If you respect business people and entrepreneurs, then you wouldn't call yourself or anything to do with Amway entrepreneurial or business-like. No exceptions to this rule.

NeverStopDreaming said...

Sounds like you quit to me. Glad you like to make money for someone else at your J-O-B. Hope you enjoy your retirement when your too old to enjoy it!

Joecool said...

Current IBOs are "pre quit" IBOs, they just don't know it.

Anonymous said...

To "NeverStopDreaming" --

Your name should be "Never Stop Hallucinating." If you think you're actually going to get rich in a rip-off scheme like Amway, you truly are living in a dream world.

Unknown said...

I am considering investing my time in building something with WWG. I would like to learn a little more on your experience with the company if you have the time.
Sarahc4d@gmail.com
I work three jobs and really haven't seen myself living in the E quadrant my whole life. Your insight wI'll be appreciated.

Joecool said...

You're free to write to me in private. My contact information is on my profile on this blog.

Michael James Duran said...

Hey everyone who quit the 5 year commitment you made utilizing the mentorship and leadership of WWDB to build an asset for yourself. You are and never were a WWDB. Stop wrecking people's dreams with your quitter mentality. You never stuck to this nor anything else in your life. Did you follow core? Do you know what it even is? You understand that building an asset, being a REAL entrepreneur, is totally different than having a job, right? You guys are dream killers. Find me a successful entrepreneur anywhere in the world, show them what THIS is and have them call this a scheme or pyramid or whatever ignorant thing you want to call it. That will never happen. Look at the results. You know who John C. Maxwell is, right? #1 Leadership Expert / Author on the planet Earth. Yeah, he thought it would be a good idea to partner up with a scam company. Microsoft, Nieman Marcus, Apple, Starbucks too. What did you figure out they didn't, hero? The job is the scheme, the scam, and also the biggest pyramid in the world. You know what's amazing...the people on here seeking perspective from those who quit. Please just think for a moment about how that isn't a good idea. Quitters are quitters in everything in life. Give yourself a chance to get fully educated, look around with your own eyes, and see for yourself. Don't go on the Internet and seek perspective from those who you are meeting on the Internet. Come on! Do you know anything about them? They're mostly trolls. I am able to analyze opportunity. I doubt any of you on here who quit were core at all or even attempted for more than 6-12 months. 2-5 year mentor/mentee relationship to actually create a future for yourself and your family. If you could stay patient, you would see that everyone activating mentorship in their life can do this. Your job will never turn your dreams and goals into reality. By the way, the ones of you who quit, your dreams are the size of a pregnant ant. Get a dream. The fact that you talk about someone being 'above you' is the silliest thing to hear from someone who has a job because there will always be someone above you and above them...in position AND potential. This is an equal opportunity where there is no one 'above you' in potential. I can explain that in more detail. But, this is an amazing vehicle to build a future for yourself. The most democratic of business plans to help you build a future for yourself. Period. How do I know? Look at the results from those who activate mentorship in their life. Look at how everyone in WWDB acts and care for everyone. Value-driven, of the highest caliber, go-giver people.

Joecool said...

Your long rant, unsupported with facts and evidence, leaves me completely unconvinced that Amway and WWDB are worthy endeavors.

Anonymous said...

This Michael James Duran is just a two-bit real estate operator from Las Vegas. That's how he makes his money. He certainly doesn't make anything from World-Wide Douche Bags (WWDB).

Anonymous said...

If you view the photo of Michael James Duran at Google, he looks like a first-class dope.

But the real proof that he is a dope is from his post of 11:29 PM. They guy spouts every idiotic cliche of the mindless MLM fantasy.

Michael James Duran said...

That's funny Joecool. Good luck with your J-O-B and helping the owner of that company build a future for himself and his family. What you said right there proves you have never done anything entrepreneurial in your life. There were facts, by the way. Microsoft, Apple...take a look. Silly. You're a hater. Again, good luck!

Joecool said...

Michael, other than your platitudes and your "you can do it" illusion, you haven't presented anything concrete to show that Amway is a viable opportunity, or that you have accomplished anything with Amway. "There were facts" What facts? Mentioning Microsoft and Apple do nothing to convince me that Amway is a good opportunity.

Amway's own stats show that a fraction of 1% are successful. 53% of IBOs are inactive (do nothing) and one half of one percent of IBOs reach the gold level. Those stats are miserable and can be compared to playing to win a lottery.

There's no hate here, just evidence that Amway is a poor way to generate an income.

Anonymous said...

Michael James Duran calls Joe Cool a "hater"? After Joe Cool has spent years trying to save people from the Amway rip off, and with no financial motive for doing so?

Michael James Duran is an ignoramus. And his money doesn't come from Amway or WWDB. His main income is from real estate deals in Las Vegas.

Michael James Duran said...

Good one, Anonymous. Can't wait for you and your Joecool friend to 'reveal' yourself. I actually earned mentorship and just got started. If you were truly looking to 'save' people...you may want to let people know who you are and tell us what fruit on the tree you have in life for us to listen even want to listen to either of you. I prefer to look at those who succeed at things and get advice from them. The truth hurts, right? So, John C. Maxwell, I'll say it again, is just one of many, who understand what it is we do and is good friends with WWDB. Two questions, I have 1) Why would John C. Maxwell, the #1 leadership expert / author on planet friggin' Earth do that? 2) Why would Apple, Starbucks, Microsoft, and the list go on partner with Amway? (And, Amway happens to be the servicer we utilize to build an asset for ourselves. We are not in Amway. We partner with them because they are the best of the best. I mention this because you both don't seem to know what you're talking about.) Now, I hope you have the character to actually answer my questions directly with some facts instead of hurl insults. Stick to my two simple questions and answer me and those on this blog site thinking it is a good idea to 'investigate' by looking on sites like this to get the lowdown. Geez. You or Joecool, whichever one of you. I'm sure Joecool knows the answer since he has spent 'years' trying to 'save' people from an 11+ billion dollar, debt-free, no shareholder company that has created a ridiculous number of millionaires. I believe it is in the thousands. It isn't about the money. It is about never having to work for money again. That appeals to me. The cool thing is too, is that I don't even need to make millions to be free. Anyway, please don't forget to answer my two questions. Help save me from WWDB.

Michael James Duran said...

Joecool, I missed your follow up. Sounds like you never were even offered mentorship thru WWDB. You do get that WWDB is different from Amway, right? The fact that you keep talking about Amway stats tells me you have no idea what you speak of. I don't give a crap about Amway. Amway isn't the opportunity. You should know that. Anyone can get into Amway if you have 60 bucks and a pulse. Wow. No reason to actually follow up with this. Tell me stats about Sysco, why you are at it. Sysco is the servicer to McDonalds, Arby's, etc...and the Nevada jail system. Get the parallel? So, anyone who is reading this that has been given an opportunity to go through a process to potentially earn mentorship, get fully educated, and definitely don't listen to these two who won't even reveal their true identity. Good luck!

Joecool said...

John Maxwell is friends with WWDB because he is compensated. Why would Apple and Microsoft partner with Amway? Because Amway sells their stuff. That's why Worldcom and Enron also partnered with Amway at one time. Funny though, these "partners" don't sell Amway stuff. Looks like it'a a one way street.

Michael, you are spouting the same mis-information that IBOs have been spouting for years. For one, Amway sales were down 12.5% last year when they did 9.5 billion, bot 11 billion. Who said they are debt free besides your upllne? Amway certainly didn't say it. And Amway's financials have nothing to do with IBOs being profitable anyway.

What millionaires have been created by Amway? The only documented wealthy people from Amway are the DeVos and Van Andel families. There are no other documented millionaires. You are repeating a myth/lie. While I don't doubt that some big pins are millionaires, Amway has less millionaires then the general population of the US. This can be mathematically proven.

What fruit is on WWDB's tree? The tree is bare. When I was an IBO, WWDB seemed like a good place to be. But what has happened since my days? Greg Duncan filed chapter 7 bankruptcy in 2009 and had homes foreclosed, David Shores also had a home foreclosed. Brad Wolgamott got divorced, Dean Kosage got divorced (Amway saves marriages?), Scott Harimoto went back to emerald, Toshi Taba passed away, Ron Puryear passed away, Jimmy Head divorced, Howie and Teresa Danzik went from double diamond to diamond. A bad tree doesn't give good fruit right?

Michael, you never even read my profile right? I was in WWDB and I was an up and coming 4000 PV with eagle parameters. I saw through the scam and got out. I have no regrets and when I retire in about a year and a half, I will be a millionaire, no thanks to my financial setback from Amway.

I blog to share my experience and to tell people the truth about what goes on in Amway and WWDB.

You still haven't answered my question. Did you make a net profit from your Amway business? Because if you did, then you have numerous downline who are losing money and that is a fact. The fact that you ignore stats is telling.

My the way, my true identity is irrelevant as long as my postings are true, which they are. I stay anonymous because IBOs in the past have threatened me and my family. Is that something WWDB teaches?

Good luck if you want to succeed by profiting and exploiting those who trusted you enough to be your downline. I couldn't do it so I quit.

Anonymous said...

Notice how Michael James Duran, in his most recent posts here, is now distancing himself from Amway. He's in "WWDB" and (according to him) that's only tangentially linked with the Amway Corporation.

What hypocritical horse manure. WWDB was created solely as a subsystem or LOS of the Amway operation. Its function is to help IBOs sell Amway products and recruit new Amway IBOs. But Duran knows that Amway's reputation in now in the toilet, so he is desperate to keep his precious mentorship away from Amway's universally bad reputation.

What's the matter, Duran? Afraid that you won't be able to recruit new suckers if they find out your business proposition is just a variation of the Amway racket?

And spare us the mindless propaganda about "partnering." Nobody is "partnering" with either Amway or your beloved WWDB. Those big companies just let you sell some of their products. You're lying to your prospective recruits if you tell them otherwise.

Stick with selling Las Vegas real estate, Duran. It's actually a legitimate business.

Anonymous said...

Whoever listen to this dude is clearly stupid. You guys are listening to a failure, rather than someone who succeed. Instead of listening to this fool... get the informations yourself people. You getting advice from someone you don't even know. Anyone can create a website and talking about a successful company they don't like. Dude don't even have a real picture on his profile. Now make sure you approve this, so people can see it. I don't blame you i blame the idiots who actually listening to you

Joecool said...

""Anyone can create a website and talk about a successful company they don't like"". Yes, that's true but not that many people write about companies like Microsoft, and f they do, they don't call them scams.

I don't have a real picture because (apparently) Amway IBOs have made threats to me and my family. Is that how IBOs are taught by their upline?

Your comment was approved, so people can see how Amway defenders act. You do more harm than good to your own cause.

I would actually say that an idiot joins Amway, where Amway's own stats show that your chance of making some money is less than 1%.

Anonymous said...

Im not defending amway. Amway does not need anyone to defend it. It's a billion dollars company with a lot of extraordinary credibilities, been in business for almost 60 years. You cant compare microsoft to amway. Their business plan are not the same. Microsoft partners with amway and so is Apple, best buy, Disney and many mojar company. Those companies would not be doing any business with company that's a scam. Amway business plan is approved by the federal trade commission, not to mention the chamber of commerce. Because you failed, you created a website to bring people hopes down. Misery needs company and as far as that 1% goes. You're a terrible liar, I know many people that are making money with amway. Amway has other different groups, I never heard of wwdb from amway. But you should never brings people hopes down in something they want to do just because you failed. And if those amway IBO group has threatened you like you said. Shame on them

Anonymous said...

To Anonymous at 8:24 PM --

Maybe if you actually could write a coherent English sentence with proper grammar, people might pay attention to what you say.

Anonymous said...

To Michael James Duran --

The next time you post a photo of yourself on Facebook or Google, make sure you shave first. You look like a chimpanzee in a badly-fitted shirt.

Joecool said...

Amway does't "partner" with Microsoft or Best Buy. Amway sells their stuff. Microsoft and Best Buy don't sell Amway stuff. It's a one way street..

I failed in Amway as you say, because Amway is designed to create many failures. The Amway plan confirms that. You know many people making money in Amway? I dont believe you, but evne if it were true, there are still millions upon millions who are losing money so those few people can make money.

My blog is just that. People search for information on Amway and my blog is here. It shares my personal experience and my informed opinions about Amway. Nobody forces anyone to come here and read my blog. Although I'd had more than a million people do just that.

Anonymous said...

Awww... the best thing you can come up with is proper grammar.people make grammar mistakes all the time, even the teacher that taught you back in school.

Anonymous said...

You're lying again. Amway plan is not design for people to fail. I've been in amway for 16 months and counting. I'm making at least $6,000 a month. You mentioned how amway took all your time. You wasn't ready to succeed, I was a truck driver over the road building amway. You're quick to say that you don't believe me but I'm sure you're expecting people to believe you. Those companies pay amway just to do business with amway. For someone who claimed to be part of amway for son many years clearly doesn't know anything about it. I understand why you fail and you said there are millions of people losing money in amway, that's not true either. And even if it was true that still doesn't make amway a bad company, it's like saying there are millions of students going to college and didn't succeed so school is bad. At least I was smart enough to get the informations myself than reading about your failure in this business. I was frustrated and tired building this business but that's the price you pay when you want to succeed and again, you wasnt ready for that.

Joecool said...

The Amway MLM system is designed to create failure. The common 6-4-2 plan is 79 IBOs. There is 1 platinum. We know that many people sign up and do nothing so there is typically more than 100 downline on a platinum's group. Those who are hard core on the system are nearly assured of losing money. Even platinums lose money because of the system.

Funny how you criticize me for not identifying myself but you post as "anonymous". I frankly don't believe that you make $6000 a month because that would put your volume higher than a platinum. But even if you did, it just means you have downline losing their shirts.

You never botheres to read and understand my story. I was at 4000 and I made a profit from Amway but it just went into buying more tapes/cds and seminar tickets, which my upline swore was my secret to ultimately succeeding. Prior to hitting 4000, I was losing money. At 4000 I was about breaking even.

I don't believe you and you don't have to believe me but when I say Amway is a crappy business opportunity, I am using Amway's own numbers to make the claim. Amway.com says only 46% of IBOs are active. That means more than half do little or nothing. Amway also says only about .26 (about one fourth of one percent) reach the gold level). .26% reach the level where you make just over $1000 a month gross income. So about 1 in 4000 reach the level where you earn $1000 a month in Amway.

You claim to make $6000. Therefore, your claim is dubious at best.

""Millions go to college and didn't succeed so school is bad"" ** But it's well documented that college grads do better financially than non college grads. So what are you talking about?

Even if you did make $6000 a month (gross) from Amway (which I don't believe), my job pays significantly more than that so what is your point?

Anonymous said...

Look who's talking about people being anonymous. Doesn't matter if you believe me or not. At the end of the day you're going to grow old and bitter about amway and they're still going to make billions every year with or without you. You're talking about a job at least I don't have a boss telling me when to come to work, wake up when I don't want to or request a day off just to enjoy my personal life.

Joecool said...

Typical comment here. "I make 6000 a month"

Now you're putting up a red herring because I debuked all your claims. In case you havent noticed, Amay sales have had huge declines in each of the last two years.

You still have a job anda boss. That's how you pay for your Amway hobby. LOL.

Feel free to prove me wrong.

Anonymous said...

Id find It hard to believe too if I had quit before making that amount of money. Good luck on that blog career there

Anonymous said...

This truck driver claims that he's been in Amway for only 16 months, and is now making $6000 a month. Yeah, sure.

What kind of a massive down-line would he need for that sort of a profit? Twelve in-depth legs?

It's amazing how people lie.

Joecool said...

New people coming on this blog claiming to make $6000 (or more per month) are more than likely spewing BS. I say this because even a diamond might not even make that much. What many newbies don't know is that an emerald or diamond might make $150K but most of it comes in the form of an annual bonus. Thus a diamond's monthly income might not be very high.

Someone making $6000 a month would have to do massive volume, probably more than 15,000 PV, or more than about $60K in sales each month. It's not impossible but highly unlikely coming from an anonymous Amway defender.

Anonymous said...

Hi Jo,

0.26% is about 1 in 385 (100/0.26) not 4000. Just saying. I don't have a google account so just chose anonymous.
-Wolfman

According to their 2011 statistics

https://www.eiseverywhere.com/file_uploads/9edbf370c69833a100a626cc940825a0_English_GI_Brochure.pdf

0.41 % of all distributors were Q12 Platinum (presumably). So that is (100/ 0.41) = 1 in 244. So that really is a far cry from the statistics you gave. Just doing some research - each to their own.

Joecool said...

Sorry, typo. .26% is roughly 1 in 400, not 4000 that reach platinum. Thanks for the correction.

Anonymous said...

Hey Jo,

Yeah ok so the success figure is really 1 in 244. Out of that 46% are "active" or do anything at all. 0.46 X 244 = 112. I have a table of the vital signs and it says a Silver Producer has about 45 people on the CEP and 45 people at a Weekend seminar but only 10 fifteen planners. I've listened to a few talks that said if you show less than 15 plans a month it doesn't count. (That's just how it is) So that really means the success rate is actually 1 in 10. I even heard a CD that said some platinum businesses only have 4 or 5 Fifteen planners. So just laying it all on the table the odds are really 1 in 5 to 10 to be Platinum. What do you think ?
-Wolfman

Joecool said...

No, the success is not really 1 in 10. If you are showing the plan and sponsoring people who do nothing, your business will go nowhere, not to mention the time and expenses of the Amway business.

A platinum group will typically have 100 or more people. A core group of maybe 30 40 hard core folks will move the volume with the rest sprinkling in a few occasional purchases.

The problem is the churn. Someone who is fired up one month might quit the next month and the churn goes on. Replacing IBOs who quit or go inactive is your main objective in Amway. And that applies to diamonds as well.

Anonymous said...

Hey JoCool,

Wow so just about all distributors quit eventually. So an Emerald who has been in the business for decades would have basically a completely different group every what 3 to 5 years ? So all platinums have to be continuously working to replace the churn too. I didn't know that's what every distributor is really up against. Well that kind of takes the pressure off, I didn't realise failure and quitting was that common. So a very very few really make it "across" for the lack of a better term. Thanks Jo, you have helped me gain some honest perspective. So it's nobodies fault, it's just human nature...
-Wolfman

Joecool said...

Approximately 50% of distributors quit each year and something like 95% of people quit within 5 years. For that reason, there is no "walking away" from Amway to collect residual income.

My former diamond had 7 downline platinums and not a single one of them are platinums today. I'm not even sure if these folks are in Amway anymore. And keep in mind that most of they were rubies.

Anonymous said...

To Wolfman --

Well, actually it IS somebody's fault. It's the fault of unscrupulous Amway types who deliberately lie to prospective recruits about the chances for success, and who then bleed the IBOs in their downline for years and years, keeping them on the hook with bullshit about "success" and "residual income." They also bleed them for money for tools and tapes, and books and functions, and all the other useless stuff that you are forced to purchase if you are an IBO.

That is definitely "somebody's fault."

Thom13 said...

You could be more financially independent. And make money being a Free Mason. I'm not promoting them. I have investigated Amway since early 1980's. It is a pyramid scheme. And they do brainwashing just like the Army, Navy, and Marines. They only want the weakest minds in their organization. As a sociologist and psychologist. I have seen this way to much in our society. It is sad what some people will do to control others. Live your own life. Nobody should be controlled by an employer, group, spouse, etc....

Anonymous said...

This is very true. Large organizations do NOT want intelligent and thoughtful persons. They want fairly stupid robots who obey orders and follow directions slavishly. Amway fits that pattern perfectly.

This is why Amway up-line calls intelligent and critical persons "uncoachable" or "unteachable."

Yuuichiro Machida said...

Hey joe, young guy here, 24 and still active duty navy. So im getting approached by these guys know. i pretty much immediately figured out this is a pyramid scheme as soon as the guy who has been trying to rope me in showed my the PV system and told bee about the scale of exponentially increasing profits. I appreciate the mentoring thing as its made me seriously consider running an actual business but i ultimately recognized that the WWDG was an odd setup and whenn he said debt free company my ears perked up. Look into it and i found this blog of many blogs that confirmed my suspicions. Pretty amusing read from the amway defenders. I was their staunch defense of amway /WWDG that made it clear this isnt worth my time. In fact they sound JUST LIKE some of the people i know that are ultra staunch military loyalists that cant take care of themselves when they get out. The parallels are frighteningly there. That being said i had a good laugh at this as im right as usual.

Unknown said...

Yo bud I realize this is years later or whatever but everyday you get up got to your unit check in... There are there is a rank structure that u are held accountable to I.E. from PVT to four star general pyramid you have to climb up to advance in life.. People are stupid and blind.

Anonymous said...

To Unknown at 2:31 PM --

You are not making yourself clear. What is your point?

Anonymous said...

I'm going to make a detailed post so I'll break it down in order to fit the character limitation:

I was approached by a classmate who recently became a part of the World Wide Group and an Individual Business Owner (IBO) of an Amway product store. After two meetings with her and her mentor and one meeting with about 300 people who are a part of this network in attendance, I was given some informational materials about Amway and their statistics. As Joecool mentioned, the statistics do not look favorable. I do not have the info in front of me right now, but Amway does note within these materials a small percentage of those who are able to make a profit. The percentage is few. I was surprised to see how low the success rate is, but glad that it is in writing. Meanwhile, I did some research on Amway and read that they are a billion dollar company (as some supporters have mentioned in their posts above). I definitely believe it’s true because my classmate who invited me into this network told me that she spends $600 a month to stock her Amway store with product. Of course when there are hundreds of people paying Amway $600 monthly, they’re definitely going to make billions. However, her mentor assured me that this network marketing opportunity is not really about selling products or your store. The business model is really about getting others to duplicate what you do, meaning, getting others to spend $600 a month on their own Amway store. I don't quite understand this part. I know that it's a major key in business to keep the overhead low, so I don't know why someone would spend $600 a month on products and a store that is not really the main focus of this business. If the selling of products is an insignificant piece of this business model, then why not get rid of it? It seems like a good idea to minimize personal expenses especially as a business owner.
I was also surprised during the large meeting I attended earlier this week when the guest speaker asked for a show of hands, "how many people here have an overwhelming amount of cash flow?" Of all the 300+ members and people in attendance, no one raised their hand. Upon my initial meetings with my classmate and her mentor, they pushed the idea that this business model is all about being your own boss and building wealth. This is why I was surprised to see that no one in the larger meeting thinks they are earning a significant amount of money. I asked myself, ‘where is the wealth’? ‘Where are the wealthy’? If that's what this business model is about, then why are the living examples so few? This is consistent with the Amway statistic I saw in a brochure. The truly successful are small in numbers.
More about the numbers; I'm being mentored or coached into spending $600 a month on product in my own Amway store once I get started. I've been invited to a meeting called "Family Reunion" which is $170. Additionally, within the informational package I was given I read something about paying for a membership, which has 2-3 membership prices around $49 or less to get more training materials. I'm unclear as to whether this is a one-time expense or a monthly/annual expense. Just doing the basic math, $600 a month equals $7,200 per year that I am expected to spend. My team members are expected to do the same. Based on the Amway informational brochure, Amway will give me back roughly 10% if I'm interpreting the info correctly. The included illustration looks as though I'll get more money back after I get others to join my team and invest the same way. For example, if I have 12 people on my team I can earn $55,000 annually, but I'm not clear whether my team earns $55,000 or if each individual on the team makes $55,000 a piece. And of course, no one on the team can stop paying in order for this to work. Everyone has to keep going in order to sustain the earning potential.

Anonymous said...

(past 2)
So far, after 3 meetings, I see that there is a slight psychological game involved in this business model. For example, at the conclusion of my first meeting with my classmate and her mentor, I was told that I said the right things and responded to their questions the right way in order for them to feel comfortable moving forward with me. Then I was given a book by the author of Rich Dad Poor Dad. The book is titled The Business of The 21st Century. I was told to read it and then meet with them for a follow-up. I say that it was a psychological game because they tried to make me feel special, as though I'm one of the selected few that is chosen to be a part of this opportunity, but I know good and well they need to get as many people as they can in order to have the most earning potential. They cannot afford to be that selective. As matter of fact, I asked my classmate how she met her mentor. She told me that she was approached while shopping a Target. That basically told me that you need to get people from wherever you can to join your team, especially once you've exhausted your options with the people you know personally.
I noticed that the large meeting I attended played into the psyche as well because it was about a 3 hour meeting which was not local at all. It ended around 11pm and took place in the middle of the week. During the meeting there were about 16 people who were "leaders" within the network who got on stage to speak. They all told everyone to attend a family reunion weekend, which is even further away and costs $170 to attend. First, I wondered why they needed so many people to say the same thing over and over. "Don't miss family reunion." "Make sure you go to family reunion." After hearing this about 16 times, of course many people would feel encouraged to go. Then I thought, if I were to spend the money for the reunion, plus the $600 a month on my Amway store and spend hours attending meetings and spend hours driving (some people flying) to attend more meetings, I like most people would end up feeling too invested in this program to walk away. This is why I say there is a psychological element to this business model. Not to mention how many people I met at the large meeting who were all saying the same thing verbatim "You've got a great mentor”. “Stay in her pocket". Three people said the exact same sentences word for word. I thought that was a little peculiar. One person even said that about my classmate even when I know that she just got started with this program. She's still learning. In fact, when we meet with her mentor, my classmate doesn't do any of the talking at all. She lets her mentor do all of the talking. Naturally, I thought to myself, why would someone say that I'm “in great hands” with my classmate because “she's a star”, when she hasn't really done anything yet. This basically lead me to believe that they say the same things to everyone.

Anonymous said...

(part 3)
Regarding the lies, as others on this blog have mentioned, I definitely caught one member of leadership lying during the large 3 hour late night meeting I attended. A few of the 16 members of leadership mentioned that they were "free", meaning financially free. After the meeting, I approached one of the individuals and I congratulated her on being financially free. She replied by saying, “thanks, but we're not quite there yet”. Then I thought to myself... 'but a few minutes ago you said'...hmmmm? That’s strange. I also heard some strategic deception from my classmate’s mentor. She’s been a part of this network for two years. I asked her, “after two years, how much money have you made?” She replied by saying, “this year, I’m making $75,000.” I noticed that she spoke in progressive tense, which means to me that she had not yet earned $75,000, but is expecting to. Also, she looked down as she responded. :-/ That didn’t make me feel very confident. As a side note, during our conversation, she asked me questions about myself and my interests. She expressed interest in the things that I do, but she’s not pursing them. Her responses made me wonder how much time does she have to do the things that she truly enjoys. After all of these meetings and reading over training materials, I wonder how much time would I have to do the things that I enjoy, including growing my own business and attending school. I can easily see how time consuming this MMG/Amway network will be. At the same time, after reading the Rich Dad book I mentioned earlier, I learned that building wealth and growing a business takes focus and sacrifice. My question is, what do I really want to focus on and what do I want to sacrifice for?... my own business and education or MMG and Amway’s?
So, here’s the good thing, the members are very positive, supportive and encouraging to one another and they're all looking to build wealth. How many of them actually have achieved that is the questionable part. This goes back to the statistics that Amway provides in their brochure. A very small percentage of people earn a significant amount of money while many (most) will not. Overall, I see it as an opportunity to try it out and see if you're one of the few who can make it to the favorable side.
I know this post is lengthy, but I hope this is helpful to someone.

John Doe said...

Anonymous said, "The business model is really about getting others to duplicate what you do, meaning, getting others to spend $600 a month on their own Amway store."

Anonymous, this is the first major red flag of your encounter. That $600.00 isn't being spent on your "Amway Store", but rather is qualifying you to continue to receive paychecks. This is a cleverly designed cash gifting scheme hidden behind products. If you have to continuously funnel $600.00 upward and then recruit more people to do the same in order to receive a paycheck, then the products become irrelevant. You aren't actually selling anything, but rather recruiting new people that will funnel part of their $600.00 to you while receiving some a gift. Hopefully this makes sense.

Anonymous said, "If the selling of products is an insignificant piece of this business model, then why not get rid of it?"

Red flag number two! You are already noticing that there isn't really a focus on selling a good or service. This is reflected in my last paragraph as a sign of a pyramid. I think you already realize it is a pyramid, but this is your first time coming in direct contact. The only way a business can operate legally is if a product or service is being sold, which is why they have to insert these products as a distraction for recruiting others to spend $600.00 monthly and receive a small rebate and some overly priced junk.

Anonymous said, "This is why I was surprised to see that no one in the larger meeting thinks they are earning a significant amount of money. I asked myself, ‘where is the wealth’? ‘Where are the wealthy’?"

This is red flag number 3! You are noticing that everyone in the room has 0 business experience as well as 0 experience investing their money. Most, if not all, live paycheck to paycheck and have never had anyone sit down and explain how to save money. They are looking for help and are vulnerable because of their ignorance to finance and business, and unfortunately these predators know that and are taking advantage.

Anonymous said, "And of course, no one on the team can stop paying in order for this to work. Everyone has to keep going in order to sustain the earning potential. "

This is red flag number 4! Your income should not be directly correlated with your downline's dollars spent. That is another sign of a pyramid scheme. Your income should only be directly correlated with the amount of money you make selling a product or service unless you are getting an override based on your downline's sales rather than dollars spent on products. This is another deception that you have already noticed, and you should go with your gut instinct when it feels wrong.

John Doe said...

Anonymous said, "So far, after 3 meetings, I see that there is a slight psychological game involved in this business model."

This is red flag #5. When being introduced to a business, there shouldn't be any psychological warfare. You should only be dealing with the numbers. This means profit margins, overhead, expected rate of returns, amount of product needed to open, etc. etc. There shouldn't be anything else when it comes to business.

Anonymous said, "Then I was given a book by the author of Rich Dad Poor Dad. The book is titled The Business of The 21st Century."

This is red flag #6. Kiyosaki is a fraud and a con-artist. Anyone recommending his books doesn't have a clue about business. This is a less obvious red flag if you haven't heard of this guy before, but you mentioned you know him as the author of Rich Dad books, therefore you should have done some research about this author and his bad past.

Anonymous said, "As matter of fact, I asked my classmate how she met her mentor. She told me that she was approached while shopping a Target."

This is red flag #7. Who finds a business partner randomly at Target? You should trust a business partner with extremely vital and sensitive information involving your business. That requires trust, which isn't something you are randomly going to stumble upon when you meet a person at Target. That is extremely troubling.

Anonymous said, "They all told everyone to attend a family reunion weekend, which is even further away and costs $170 to attend."

This is red flag #8. They aren't teaching you how to make money, but rather teaching you how to spend it. If they can't get their business pitch across in 3 hours, let alone 30 minutes, then something is significantly wrong. Look at Shark Tank and how many pitches they can get through in one hour-long episode. Also, calling something "Family Reunion", when you don't know any of those people, is another psychological and cult-like behavior.

Anonymous said, "Three people said the exact same sentences word for word. I thought that was a little peculiar."

This is red flag #9. YES! THAT IS PECULIAR! More cult-like behavior. They are programmed, brainwashed, manipulated, into saying the same things in an effort to get more adherents to join. This is when you should be really creeped out and want to run away!

Anonymous said, "Naturally, I thought to myself, why would someone say that I'm “in great hands” with my classmate because “she's a star”, when she hasn't really done anything yet. This basically lead me to believe that they say the same things to everyone."

This is red flag #10. Same as the last red flag, but it is reinforced by the fact that you noticed this problem multiple times. This is cult-like behavior!

John Doe said...

Anonymous said, "I definitely caught one member of leadership lying during the large 3 hour late night meeting I attended."

Red flag #11. Nobody should be lying to you when it comes to investing your time and money. Anyone that is, should not be considered a viable business opportunity. You are seeing all of the errors, now trust your gut and get the hell away from this.

Anonymous said, "So, here’s the good thing, the members are very positive, supportive and encouraging to one another and they're all looking to build wealth. How many of them actually have achieved that is the questionable part."

Fine, then go to the bar and have a drink with them, but don't ask them to be "business partners" and don't give them your money. They clearly don't know how to "build wealth" because they don't have any wealth to build. They are vulnerable, brainwashed, suckers, and they need to go broke, before realizing they are involved in something very bad.

Anonymous said, "Overall, I see it as an opportunity to try it out and see if you're one of the few who can make it to the favorable side."

WHAT!??!?! AFTER ALL OF THAT YOU WOULD STILL GIVE IT A SHOT!??! They clearly have started to get to you with the brainwashing and you need to sever the ties IMMEDIATELY! If that means not talking to your "friend" the "mentor" anymore, then that is what it has to be. Unless you feel the need to lose a bunch of your time, money, friends, and family.

Michael James Duran said...

Really? Lying? Ok, what was their name? I'm curious what the lie was. Was it the person you were going through a process to earn mentorship from? I don't know about you, but if it was something I thought was a lie I would have confronted them and got clarification. Perhaps I heard it wrong. That is possible, right? Perhaps that person misspoke. That is possible, right? Perhaps I actually misheard something. Hmmm, could it be? I dunno. If it was something that was a big deal, I would've confronted them; otherwise, it really wasn't something that important. I've been involved for several months, this is the truest and realist thing I've ever been part of. So much better and the results are just not possible with a job or a traditional business. Period. This organization that I am part of is full of the most convicted and honest people I've had the pleasure to be around. I value the fact that they are allergic to mediocrity. I value that fact that they have standards of excellence. This is not something to 'try out.' Not with my multi- multi- millionaire mentors who retired in their mid-20s. The organization I'm part of, the people I earned mentorship from, you need to convince them you are worth their time, energy, and their resources to make you successful. 2 - 5 year plan. 2 to 5 years. You don't quit. You commit to a process of growth and change. This isn't like a job where you work an hour and you get paid. Or even in real estate, you do a deal and you get a check. The work in this is exponential. Anyway, you've never been shown how to build an asset for yourself especially while staying debt-free. This is building an asset, not a job. There is a massive difference between building an asset and having a job. But, if you can't stay patient to get fully educated, and based off the comments above I clearly see you were not, then you'll never stay patient for 2-5 years. We look at candidates as they come through a process to get educated. We evaluate them. We are looking for key ingredients in people as we take 'em through a process. Actually, for anyone reading this that is potentially being swayed by what was written above, just ask yourself why would Apple, Starbucks, Nike, etc. partner up with an illegal pyramid scam? That's just ridiculous. Better Business Bureau thumb's up. Why would John C. Maxwell speak to World Wide? Ask any successful entrepreneur to look at this and 100% of them know what we have our hands on. But, at the end of the day the opportunity is mentorship. Simple. You're getting their hand, their heart, and their time to help you become successful. To do what they've done. An equal opportunity. It's up to you. I personally don't care how many people say they want something in their life and chose not to activate mentorship in their lives to go after what they said they want out of life. Whose fault is that? Just like LVAC shouldn't be held responsible for those who get a gym membership, say they want to get shredded, but make excuses why they are still fat turds one year later. But, good luck to you. I'm sure you'll do great whatever you end up doing.

Joecool said...

Apple, Nike and Starbucks partner with Amway because Amway IBOs sell their stuff and they don't have to pay a cent unless you sell their stuff. It's a great deal for them. They don't in turn, sell Amway stuff.

Why would John Maxwell speak to Amway WWDB? Because he earns a nice honorarium and he also gets to sell his books and cds to a captive audience. It's very lucrative. You'll notice. Mr. Maxwell is not an Amway IBO.

As for the better business bureau, they did not give Amway a "thumb's up". Of course you're free to prove me wrong.

In Amway, you aren't an entrepreneur, even if you think you are. You are a commission only sales person for Amway. Nothing more and nothing less.

Anonymous said...

Look who's back -- Michael James Duran, the Las Vegas real estate operator who needs a shave.

He was here a few months back, and got his ass kicked by Joe Cool and John Doe. And despite his "great success" in Amway (oh, excuse me - WWDB) he's still reading this blog! Why is that, Duran? Don't you have a lot of hard work to do in your fabulous business opportunity, slaving for the people you "earned mentorship" from?

Why are you still reading this anti-MLM blog, pal? You must have a bad conscience or something.

Anonymous said...

Joecool,

How did the processing start with you? I think we are getting pulled into this as well and had 2 meetings and 2 seminars....last nights seminar was the one that they finally revealed what the "MENTORSHIP" is for BUT at the same time still didn't talk about how they mentor. It was like they danced around the whole "product" and how its' not a pyramid. To me is sounds like a pyramid except they draw it as a web as opposed to the traditional pyramid. If I have to try to recruit people for me to make money I'm out. They state that you don't have to invest any money into starting all this, but I guess you will be spending money as soon as you "shop from your own shop"

Joecool said...

You have to recruit. You cannot achieve any high levels unless you recruit a large downline. Sadly, most people are unable to sponsor even a single person.

At first they'll tell you that you don't need to spend much but they will raise the bar if you sign up and become committed.

The upline will slowly suck you in and you'll be spending a ton of money on products and the training materials. Keep reading more of my blog for real life examples.

Anonymous said...

I have to say I do agree with Joecool. In my experience with being an IBO, I found it very frustrating being lied to. DON'T say "this isn't Amway" WHEN IT IS! Tell the truth from the beginning, not after people paid all this money to attend late events when they have work early the next morning, spend money on apps & books just to find out it IS amway!. It wouldn't be so bad, but I was told I have to spend $900.00 per month on amway products. First of all, that's insane, second there are not enough products to justify that. Not to mention they are all over priced! It seemed like an opportunity in the beginning, but the only way it will work is if I get other people to buy amway. That's not for me, and it was never laid out like that. I had to figure it out on my own.

Anonymous said...

Thanks, I think I will stay far away from this and not invest anymore time to meeting these people when I can be spending the time with my kids. We are very simple and do not shop a lot so it wouldn't work for us anyways unless they were grocery items. I can't see myself spending the $300 to get back the % a month on items I do not use. The couple presenting emphasized on beauty products....I don't wear makeup so this BS they trying to recruit is nonsense.