If you have ever sat through an Amway presentation and the follow up teachings as I did, you can get a clear picture of how the uplines slowly suck people into the system. The speaker will be introduced as a picture of success. Possibly introduced as being in the top 1/10 of 1% in income (But with no proof). They will talk about how taxes, insurance, and inflation eat away at your paycheck. More than likely they will say they suffered the same way until they figured out how to defeat these issues by making more money. Of course they will eventually drop the "A" bomb on you and say it's Amway. Very likely they will say that you should not care what it is if it gets results.
You are then shown the plan and many people think that 2-5 years and "finding six" is something very manageable for the results they promote (walking the beaches while residual income flows in). At the very least they say, you will make some money and save some money. Who can argue with that kind of logic? They will also likely mention that Amway is low risk or no risk with little or no start up costs. Again, how can you argue with that logic?
You finally convince yourself that you can do this. You sign up and you are likely told that it is important to get some tools because after all, a carpenter can't build homes without a hammer and saw and that any business owner would have to make some investment into their own business. So now because of the tools, you are operating at a loss. You may then be told that business owners normally operate at a loss for years and that it might also be wise to channel your bonuses back into your business by purchasing more tools.
Before you know it, months or years may pass before you start to realize that you are on a treadmill. You keep walking but end up going nowhere. Then your upline may tell you that the business is not about money but more about making lifelong friendships.
In my opinion, this whole system is a cleverly designed systematic way for uplines to slowly drain your resources and making you think that you are successful despite showing no profits. Your upline may edify small things like showing the plan or making a sacrifice to attend a function. Sadly, you will rarely see someone edified for actually making a net profit.
It's a slow process, but most people slowly get sucked into the system, just like quicksand. I hope IBOs and information seekers are able to recognize the scheme if and when it happens to them.
Friday, August 29, 2014
Wednesday, August 27, 2014
Amway Mentors Are Ruthless?
The really insidious part about some of the LOS leaders, such as the ones I had in WWDB, is that they apparently are cutthroat ruthless businessmen with nice suits, and disguised as your mentors and friends. They get you to trust them, and they will tell you that they have your best interest at heart, or that they would never purposely lead you astray. On the surface, you may think this is great, but look at their actions and you can easily discern that some of these uplines are absolutely ruthless businessmen who would take every cent from you if they could. I was in WWDB and I have good reasons to believe that they are still doing this, based on a WWDB IBO blog. On this blog, I see all the same teachings today, that I heard as an IBO and some of the same claims such as buying homes in cash. It's scary. The bar is slowly raised as your trust goes up until you to immersed in the tool system. The tool system will drain your bank account one cd, one book or one function at a time.
As an IBO, the diamonds would tell you to never miss a function, ever. The only good reason for missing a function was for your own funeral. I recall some crossline IBOs rearranging pre-planned anniverssary parties, weddings, and other special family events in the name of being core and attending all functions. Some IBOs actually quit their jobs to attend functions and they very well may have done so because some uplines taught this. IBOs were also encouraged and told to go into debt to attend a function. This was okay because it was an investment into your business. Going into debt for an Amway business is insanity as your business is not even generating enough income to pay for the tools or products you consume (for the vast majority).
Our group was also strongly encouraged to buy extra cds every week. To be core, you needed to listen to a cd each day and you cannot listen to the same one each day right? Couples were told to buy their own seperate standing orders. Brad Duncan even had a true north tape (cd) that said sponsors were to eat the standing orders for downlines who quit because it was too much trouble to call upline who calls upline who calls upline to cancel a standing order. Oddly enough, they didn't mind upline calling upline calling upline to add a standing order.
In the end, I was lucky enough to have been progressing up the pin ranks so my losses were not that devastating. I ended up losing in my early months of the business but mostly broke even when I was at 4000 PV. Sadly though, my crossline did not fare so well. I know of one couple who declared bankruptcy. I don't know how much their WWDB involvement contributed to bankruptcy, but I am certain it was a major factor and I know of two couples who had homes foreclosed, and I believe that their allegiance to WWDB was a factor in those foreclosures. But I guess hey, two WWDB diamonds had homes foreclosed so maybe they were duplicating?
Do not be fooled. The diamonds may have a nice smile and a nice suit, but they are ruthless businessmen who will take your last dime if you allow them to.
As an IBO, the diamonds would tell you to never miss a function, ever. The only good reason for missing a function was for your own funeral. I recall some crossline IBOs rearranging pre-planned anniverssary parties, weddings, and other special family events in the name of being core and attending all functions. Some IBOs actually quit their jobs to attend functions and they very well may have done so because some uplines taught this. IBOs were also encouraged and told to go into debt to attend a function. This was okay because it was an investment into your business. Going into debt for an Amway business is insanity as your business is not even generating enough income to pay for the tools or products you consume (for the vast majority).
Our group was also strongly encouraged to buy extra cds every week. To be core, you needed to listen to a cd each day and you cannot listen to the same one each day right? Couples were told to buy their own seperate standing orders. Brad Duncan even had a true north tape (cd) that said sponsors were to eat the standing orders for downlines who quit because it was too much trouble to call upline who calls upline who calls upline to cancel a standing order. Oddly enough, they didn't mind upline calling upline calling upline to add a standing order.
In the end, I was lucky enough to have been progressing up the pin ranks so my losses were not that devastating. I ended up losing in my early months of the business but mostly broke even when I was at 4000 PV. Sadly though, my crossline did not fare so well. I know of one couple who declared bankruptcy. I don't know how much their WWDB involvement contributed to bankruptcy, but I am certain it was a major factor and I know of two couples who had homes foreclosed, and I believe that their allegiance to WWDB was a factor in those foreclosures. But I guess hey, two WWDB diamonds had homes foreclosed so maybe they were duplicating?
Do not be fooled. The diamonds may have a nice smile and a nice suit, but they are ruthless businessmen who will take your last dime if you allow them to.
Tuesday, August 26, 2014
Amway IBOs Judge Others?
One of the things that my upline taught, and I believe is still taught today in various groups is that winners join Amway and losers do not. Or that you were a winner because you were doing something to better your financial future and those who didn't were losers. or broke minded. Of course the upline who said this had no knowledge about those who were not in Amway. Some of them may already have been financially sound or may have been doing something to better their financial future. I'm not sure why these uplines, who promote "positive", had to resort to calling people losers simpy because they did not agree that Amway was the greatest thing since sliced bread. It's only positive if it's Amway related and anything non Amway is negative. Anyone see a problem with this?
In many games or sporting events, there will be someone or a team that wins the game and someone or a team that loses the game. Losing a game doesn't make you a loser and certainly, a team that wins the game would not say the losing team were losers. Can you imagine a Superbowl winning team's coach taking the podium after a game and saying his team won because the other team was a bunch or broke minded gutless losers? That would never happen, yet we see that frequently in the Amway/IBO world. The owner of Amway, Rich DeVos had once said in a recorded message that just because people do not agree with you (paraphrased) about Amway, does not make them losers and that IBOs should not call people losers. I believe this has been crafted by upline to apply pressure to downline IBOs to "never quit'.
In all of this, people's jobs are also criticized. That a job stands for "just over broke" or "jackass of the boss" and other insults. Many IBO's goals and dreams consist of ditching their job so they can sleep until "the crack of noon" and live a life of luxury. Ironically, it is most IBO's jobs that continue to produce income so they can pay their bills and feed their family. It is also an IBO's job that funds their Amway and AMO expenses such as product purchases and functions and voicemail, etc. Without having a job, most people could not even join Amway or pay for any tools. Sadly, most IBOs won't make any money in Amway either, and will have to continue to work at their jobs. I do not believe that someone earning an honest living working a job is a loser. Ironically, many of the folks calling people losers and broke are not even netting a profit from their Amway business!
Yes, in this business or the sports world, there will be winners and there will be losers. The question is whether you are the one who is allowed to be the judge of who is and who isn't. I would also suggest that IBOs are completely shutting down potential future business by their behavior. What if I went to a store to purchase something but the item was not available on that particular day, so I don't purchase anything and leave. As I leave, the store owner says I am a loser for not buying something there. Will I go back? Very unlikely. If an IBO truly sees themselves as a store owner, all prospects should be seen as potential business, whether future or present. If your upline tells you that people not interested are losers, you should hand him a mirror. Or inform your upline that when you point a finger at someone, there are even more fingers pointing back at you.
In many games or sporting events, there will be someone or a team that wins the game and someone or a team that loses the game. Losing a game doesn't make you a loser and certainly, a team that wins the game would not say the losing team were losers. Can you imagine a Superbowl winning team's coach taking the podium after a game and saying his team won because the other team was a bunch or broke minded gutless losers? That would never happen, yet we see that frequently in the Amway/IBO world. The owner of Amway, Rich DeVos had once said in a recorded message that just because people do not agree with you (paraphrased) about Amway, does not make them losers and that IBOs should not call people losers. I believe this has been crafted by upline to apply pressure to downline IBOs to "never quit'.
In all of this, people's jobs are also criticized. That a job stands for "just over broke" or "jackass of the boss" and other insults. Many IBO's goals and dreams consist of ditching their job so they can sleep until "the crack of noon" and live a life of luxury. Ironically, it is most IBO's jobs that continue to produce income so they can pay their bills and feed their family. It is also an IBO's job that funds their Amway and AMO expenses such as product purchases and functions and voicemail, etc. Without having a job, most people could not even join Amway or pay for any tools. Sadly, most IBOs won't make any money in Amway either, and will have to continue to work at their jobs. I do not believe that someone earning an honest living working a job is a loser. Ironically, many of the folks calling people losers and broke are not even netting a profit from their Amway business!
Yes, in this business or the sports world, there will be winners and there will be losers. The question is whether you are the one who is allowed to be the judge of who is and who isn't. I would also suggest that IBOs are completely shutting down potential future business by their behavior. What if I went to a store to purchase something but the item was not available on that particular day, so I don't purchase anything and leave. As I leave, the store owner says I am a loser for not buying something there. Will I go back? Very unlikely. If an IBO truly sees themselves as a store owner, all prospects should be seen as potential business, whether future or present. If your upline tells you that people not interested are losers, you should hand him a mirror. Or inform your upline that when you point a finger at someone, there are even more fingers pointing back at you.
Monday, August 25, 2014
Amway IBOs Are........?
IBO = Independent Business Owner. Most Amway folks consider themselves IBOs, or independent business owners. To some, owning a business sounds cool. It sounds like you are achieving something and it may even seem that there is status involved in being a business owner. It is one of the reasons that may compel someone into signing up for the Amway opportunity. It was a small factor in gaining my interest some years aho when I was pitched the "plan".
Based on what I see and hear from Amway related blogs and forums, most people involved in the Amway opoprtunity are not business owners. They are simply customers. They are customers of Amway and they are customers of the system, consisting of voicemail, cds, books, and seminars. Does this sound confusing? Think about it. Many groups teach "buy from yourself" and get others to do the same. If you belong to one of these groups, you are being taught to be an Amway and system customer, nothing more and nothing less. Both Amway and the system profit from your loyal purchases and they fool you into thinking you are getting a good deal by giving you a tiny rebate each month. Only if you are able to lure enough gullible people into your downline will you finally be able to leverage their purchases to make a small profit. If you can get a large following, then you might make some nice coin, but it will come at the expense of the people who trusted you enough to sign up and follow you.
If you stop for a minute and truly think about a business, what business can thrive without customers? I cannot think of any businesses where there are little or no customers. Why would the Amway opportunity be any different? If you are your only, or your own best customer, then maybe you are not even a business owner, but simply a customer of Amway and a customer of the system. Think about this for a moment.
Without any sales to customers, or to people who are not Amway IBOs, any profit simply comes out of the pockets of the people in the Amway system. When you receive a rebate, you are simply getting some of your own money back. You have not generated any real profit. The only way to generate real profits is to sell to outside customers. This brings money into the system or Amway economy if you will. If not, an IBO is just a glorified customer bringing profits to Amway and the tools systems.
So are you a business owner or a customer?
Based on what I see and hear from Amway related blogs and forums, most people involved in the Amway opoprtunity are not business owners. They are simply customers. They are customers of Amway and they are customers of the system, consisting of voicemail, cds, books, and seminars. Does this sound confusing? Think about it. Many groups teach "buy from yourself" and get others to do the same. If you belong to one of these groups, you are being taught to be an Amway and system customer, nothing more and nothing less. Both Amway and the system profit from your loyal purchases and they fool you into thinking you are getting a good deal by giving you a tiny rebate each month. Only if you are able to lure enough gullible people into your downline will you finally be able to leverage their purchases to make a small profit. If you can get a large following, then you might make some nice coin, but it will come at the expense of the people who trusted you enough to sign up and follow you.
If you stop for a minute and truly think about a business, what business can thrive without customers? I cannot think of any businesses where there are little or no customers. Why would the Amway opportunity be any different? If you are your only, or your own best customer, then maybe you are not even a business owner, but simply a customer of Amway and a customer of the system. Think about this for a moment.
Without any sales to customers, or to people who are not Amway IBOs, any profit simply comes out of the pockets of the people in the Amway system. When you receive a rebate, you are simply getting some of your own money back. You have not generated any real profit. The only way to generate real profits is to sell to outside customers. This brings money into the system or Amway economy if you will. If not, an IBO is just a glorified customer bringing profits to Amway and the tools systems.
So are you a business owner or a customer?
Friday, August 22, 2014
Amway Is Get Rich Slow?
One of the things upline used to say was that Amway is not "get rich quick". I suppose they say this because most people would more likely think scam if they promoted it that way. But when you stop and think about it, 2-5 years, build it right and you have willable, residual income for life while walking the beaches of the world? That's not get rich quick? Or is it more of a disclaimer so that the opportunity doesn't sound "too good to be true"? One thing is for sure, even if uplines tell you that it's not get rich quick, it's obvious that IBOs think they will eventually get rich, even if it's not quick. Sadly, the only ones getting rich appear to be the ones who are getting a share of the money generated from the sale of tools and functions.
What most IBOs don't figure out quickly enough, is that they are unlikely to break even , much less make a profit, let alone getting rich in Amway. How many of these peoplle exist? Where are all of these retired Amway IBOs who built a business in 2-5 years and then walked away from their business and will be collecting a significant residual income for many years to come afterwards? I don't know of a single person who has done this and none of the Amway defenders and zealots I have encountered over the years has been able to supply this information either. Recently, two crown ambassadors passed away and they were still working until they passed. You can argue whether their works was easy or not, but having to be somewhere at a certain date and time is still the criticism against people's jobs.
I can acknowledge that Amway is a business opportunity and will definitely take some work to be able to achieve something. But thinking realistically, what business could you actually be able to walk away in 5 years and not work again? More than likely that business doesn't exist, whether it's Amway or not. Say you opened a conventional business. There wouldn't be many scenarios where you could walk away after a number of years. The business would still require work and maintenance. But for some reason, people are mislead to believe that you can do this in Amway where there is a high attrition rate and where your business can only expand by person to person. How can you actually build a business when most people who join either do nothing or do little and quit in the first year?
Sadly, many of the people who are attracted to the Amway opportunity are often young people looking to get more out of life. They are often ambitious but may lack a means to gain wealth, thus the appeal of the opportunity is there. Unfortunately, these nice young people are more likely to end up channeling their hard earned dollars into standing orders and functions which will almost guarantee that they end up with a net loss. The bottom line is that not only is Amway not get rich quick. The more likely scenario is that your involvement with Amway will very likely be not getting rich at all. A net loss is the most likely result. I challenge anyone to try and prove me wrong on this point.
What most IBOs don't figure out quickly enough, is that they are unlikely to break even , much less make a profit, let alone getting rich in Amway. How many of these peoplle exist? Where are all of these retired Amway IBOs who built a business in 2-5 years and then walked away from their business and will be collecting a significant residual income for many years to come afterwards? I don't know of a single person who has done this and none of the Amway defenders and zealots I have encountered over the years has been able to supply this information either. Recently, two crown ambassadors passed away and they were still working until they passed. You can argue whether their works was easy or not, but having to be somewhere at a certain date and time is still the criticism against people's jobs.
I can acknowledge that Amway is a business opportunity and will definitely take some work to be able to achieve something. But thinking realistically, what business could you actually be able to walk away in 5 years and not work again? More than likely that business doesn't exist, whether it's Amway or not. Say you opened a conventional business. There wouldn't be many scenarios where you could walk away after a number of years. The business would still require work and maintenance. But for some reason, people are mislead to believe that you can do this in Amway where there is a high attrition rate and where your business can only expand by person to person. How can you actually build a business when most people who join either do nothing or do little and quit in the first year?
Sadly, many of the people who are attracted to the Amway opportunity are often young people looking to get more out of life. They are often ambitious but may lack a means to gain wealth, thus the appeal of the opportunity is there. Unfortunately, these nice young people are more likely to end up channeling their hard earned dollars into standing orders and functions which will almost guarantee that they end up with a net loss. The bottom line is that not only is Amway not get rich quick. The more likely scenario is that your involvement with Amway will very likely be not getting rich at all. A net loss is the most likely result. I challenge anyone to try and prove me wrong on this point.
Thursday, August 21, 2014
Fighting For Your Amway Dreams?
One of the things that many IBOs are badly misguided on is the concept of dreams and fighting for dreams. A dream is basically a long term goal. Someone might dream about playing in the National Football League. To accomplish that dream, one might play high school and/or college level football. For most, the dream will end. No matter how much someone wants to play in the NFL, only so many people are proficient enough to be able to make the team. Even fewer are elite players that become stars. So while you might fight for your dreams, there is also an alternate reality.
In the Amway business, via the "systems" such as WWDB or Network 21, the leaders will often sell hopes and dreams to the downline. That the downline can be retired at the age of 29, walking the beaches of the world while the income just rolls in forever and ever. These kinds of "dreams" would be the same as hoping to win the powerball lottery. You may have seen a few who did it but the chance of you duplicating it is very unlikely. Slim to none is your chance in reality.
Another things uplines will often do is tell anecdotal stories about crabs keeping each other in a bucket when one tries to escape, or about monkeys preventing each other from grabbing bananas at the top of the pole. While the stories may be interesting and even true, it doesn't necessarily apply to the Amway business. While it is true that an IBO may have friends and family who are skeptical about Amway, it is with good reason. Many people have gone through the Amway business with no success. Many people have lost money doing everyting they were advised to do by upline. There is a track record of financial disasters associated with Amway and the attached "systems". It's not like there's a long list of people who have walked away from Amway with the cash rolling in and not a care in the world. Ever wonder why none of the crown ambassadors have exercised the option to "walk away"?
I think people should have dreams. I think people should pursue their dreams. I also think people need to know that certain dreams can come true. There also needs to be a degree of reality in their dreams. There will always be some inspirational person such as a "Rudy" who overcame great odds to accomplish a dream, but the untold reality is that there were probably many many young men who dreamed of playing for Notre Dame that year. Likely, no one else accomplished the unlikely dream like a Rudy. What I am saying is that earning a nice income and having the option of early retirement can be acomplished in many ways. You might be choosing to use Amway to accomplish your financial dreams and that is your right. But the reality is that very few people have made all their financial dreams come true due to the Amway opportunity, as compared to the tens of millions who have tried.
Keep fighting for your dreams, but keep in mind that you might need a plan B and a dose of reality.
In the Amway business, via the "systems" such as WWDB or Network 21, the leaders will often sell hopes and dreams to the downline. That the downline can be retired at the age of 29, walking the beaches of the world while the income just rolls in forever and ever. These kinds of "dreams" would be the same as hoping to win the powerball lottery. You may have seen a few who did it but the chance of you duplicating it is very unlikely. Slim to none is your chance in reality.
Another things uplines will often do is tell anecdotal stories about crabs keeping each other in a bucket when one tries to escape, or about monkeys preventing each other from grabbing bananas at the top of the pole. While the stories may be interesting and even true, it doesn't necessarily apply to the Amway business. While it is true that an IBO may have friends and family who are skeptical about Amway, it is with good reason. Many people have gone through the Amway business with no success. Many people have lost money doing everyting they were advised to do by upline. There is a track record of financial disasters associated with Amway and the attached "systems". It's not like there's a long list of people who have walked away from Amway with the cash rolling in and not a care in the world. Ever wonder why none of the crown ambassadors have exercised the option to "walk away"?
I think people should have dreams. I think people should pursue their dreams. I also think people need to know that certain dreams can come true. There also needs to be a degree of reality in their dreams. There will always be some inspirational person such as a "Rudy" who overcame great odds to accomplish a dream, but the untold reality is that there were probably many many young men who dreamed of playing for Notre Dame that year. Likely, no one else accomplished the unlikely dream like a Rudy. What I am saying is that earning a nice income and having the option of early retirement can be acomplished in many ways. You might be choosing to use Amway to accomplish your financial dreams and that is your right. But the reality is that very few people have made all their financial dreams come true due to the Amway opportunity, as compared to the tens of millions who have tried.
Keep fighting for your dreams, but keep in mind that you might need a plan B and a dose of reality.
Wednesday, August 20, 2014
Amway's Defense?
I've been blogging for many years now and one of the conclusions I have made is that there really is no defense for debating the merits of an Amway business when the IBO is participating in a system such as WWDB or Network 21. I have no issues with IBOs who sign up and sell actual products to non IBO customers, but these sales oriented IBOs are very rare. Most IBOs who are entrenched in a system are often focused on sponsoring downline because that is the only way an IBO can achieve certain levels such as emerald or diamond. The emerald or diamond level is the goal of many because it is allegedly the level where an IBO can "walk away" and enjoy barrels of cash rolling in for the rest of their lives. I find it ironic that even crown ambassadors keep busy schedules and have not walked away into a quiet life of retirement and uncountable amounts of money.
In general, it would take about 100 IBOs or so to make up a platinum level business. That's 1% at best and even less when you factor in IBOs who do nothing or IBOs who start and quit. In my estimation, a very dedicated hard core IBO would only begin to break even or make a little bit of income at the 4000 PV or platinum level. Of course, your business structure would be a factor in determining how much you can earn. Sponsoring width gives you more profit and sponsoring depth allegedly gives you some stability. Thus you could reasonably argue that about a fraction of 1% of IBOs break even or make a little bit of income. What real businessman would even consider opening a business where your chance of making a profit is less than 1%? Yes, you can argue that Amway is a business and not a game of chance, but a prudent decision also factors in your chances of success.
Other factors that would make Amway unattractive is that the products are priced higher (in general) than comparable or the same products that are available at people's local retailers. Yes, Amway folks will argue quality and concentration factors but those arguments are simply justification for the higher prices. The vast majority of people are satisfied getting cheaper prices at Walmart. Also, IBOs are restricted from advertising their goods, thus are relegated to person to person advertising, which is probably the least effective methos of getting the word out. Higher prices and unfamiliar products results in what many groups have - IBOs who "buy from themselves" in order to earn their bonuses. Also, any bonus that is earned by most IBOs is just a partial refund on having overpaid for a product. Not to mention unless you are at a higher level in the business, your upline(s) get most of the bonus, whether they helped you or not.
Yes, it is possible for some people to make some money in Amway. Yes, some people do make some good money from Amway. It is not possible for all IBOs to make money unless they are selling products to non IBOs and we know that most IBOs don't sell anything or sell just a few items to others. We also know that the tools systems generally eat away any small bonuses IBOs earn and leave them with a net loss. For the truly dedicated IBOs, the losses can mount into thousands of dollars and more.
Can someone make a living with Amway? The answer is that it's possible but not likely. But as to whether the Amway business and associated tools is a good idea? For thet there is no defense.
In general, it would take about 100 IBOs or so to make up a platinum level business. That's 1% at best and even less when you factor in IBOs who do nothing or IBOs who start and quit. In my estimation, a very dedicated hard core IBO would only begin to break even or make a little bit of income at the 4000 PV or platinum level. Of course, your business structure would be a factor in determining how much you can earn. Sponsoring width gives you more profit and sponsoring depth allegedly gives you some stability. Thus you could reasonably argue that about a fraction of 1% of IBOs break even or make a little bit of income. What real businessman would even consider opening a business where your chance of making a profit is less than 1%? Yes, you can argue that Amway is a business and not a game of chance, but a prudent decision also factors in your chances of success.
Other factors that would make Amway unattractive is that the products are priced higher (in general) than comparable or the same products that are available at people's local retailers. Yes, Amway folks will argue quality and concentration factors but those arguments are simply justification for the higher prices. The vast majority of people are satisfied getting cheaper prices at Walmart. Also, IBOs are restricted from advertising their goods, thus are relegated to person to person advertising, which is probably the least effective methos of getting the word out. Higher prices and unfamiliar products results in what many groups have - IBOs who "buy from themselves" in order to earn their bonuses. Also, any bonus that is earned by most IBOs is just a partial refund on having overpaid for a product. Not to mention unless you are at a higher level in the business, your upline(s) get most of the bonus, whether they helped you or not.
Yes, it is possible for some people to make some money in Amway. Yes, some people do make some good money from Amway. It is not possible for all IBOs to make money unless they are selling products to non IBOs and we know that most IBOs don't sell anything or sell just a few items to others. We also know that the tools systems generally eat away any small bonuses IBOs earn and leave them with a net loss. For the truly dedicated IBOs, the losses can mount into thousands of dollars and more.
Can someone make a living with Amway? The answer is that it's possible but not likely. But as to whether the Amway business and associated tools is a good idea? For thet there is no defense.
Monday, August 18, 2014
Amway Is Great!
Over the years I have been debating with Amway supporters, I cannot see what is so great about the Amway opportunity. Are some of these Amway defenders that stupid or dense that they truly believe that a business where one out of a few hundred people might make a profit and most of the remaining IBOs will lose money is a good opportunity? I'm not talking about people who sign up and "do nothing". Many IBOs sign up and put in a great deal of time, effort and money, only to find out that the system simply does not work (especially in the US) and they make a business decision to quit and/or to do something else.
Of course there are some people who make money in Amway. If nobody made money, then the opportunity would cease to exist. But it is basically exploitation of the downline that accounts for upline success. Amway's admission that sales to non IBOs are low, confirms this. Thus certain upline make their income from their downline's PV volume, and on tool purchases. I mean even a lottery has winners. Even ponzi schemes and other questionable opportunties have some winners. This is not to suggest that Amway in not legal. Amway is perfectly legal, but the way the opportunity is set up, those who profit, primarily do so at the expense of their trusted downline.
There are no groups that I know of where all the IBOs can win and earn a profit. I would guess that there might be a few rogue groups who only focus on retail sales, and while these groups can be profitable as a group, they are few and far between. This is because most IBOs fall under an LOS such as WWDB, BWW, LTD or N21, and these groups all seemingly focus on recruiting of new IBOs. Yes, they may sprinkle in some suggeestions about selling goods, but generally speaking, their "training" materials consist of motivation speeches, feel good stories (whether true or not), and the theme of never quitting while continuing to purchase more tools.
Some upline have the nerve to start teaching downline that their Amway business is not about making money, but to save your marriage, make you a nicer person, or some other diversion to make you forget that you are losing money month after month after month. Some groups even mix in religion and politics into their functions and meetings. As far as I can see, the typical business buildiing IBO signs up, gets some of the tools and attends a few functions, and finds that the products are hard to sell because they are not priced competetively with other retailers, and that a damaged reputation is nearly impossible to overcome. These IBOs realize they are not going anywhere, and they walk away, chalking up the losses as a life lesson. But apparently, many uplines who lied and deceived in the past are continuing to do so today, often just revising history for their benefit (i.e. lying about making any profit on tools).
Many IBOs, prospects, information seekers and critics read this blog. My question is very simple. What is so great about the Amway opportunity? For most, it is just a bad use of time and money. While some may exist, I don't know of a single person who "did the work once" and sat back collecting barrels of Amway money while sipping Mai Tais on the beaches of Jamaica. I see crown ambassadors working as hard today as they did many years ago. Diamonds losing homes to forclosures, a prominent diamond in bankruptcy proceedings, and a hoard of WWDB diamonds apparently selling off mansions that they allegedly paid for in cash. (It os quite possible that their lifestyles are simply not sustainable).
Where is the benefit in the business for the typical IBO? Just as there are some diamonds, there are lottery winners. Displaying a lottery winner doesn't make it prudent to spend your money on lottery tickets. Displaying a diamond's lifestyle doesn't make Amway a good opportunity. While Amway is a business and not a game of chance, the results of either, sadly are eerily similar - that is a few winners and millions of non winners.
What is so great about the Amway opportunity? I don't see it.
Of course there are some people who make money in Amway. If nobody made money, then the opportunity would cease to exist. But it is basically exploitation of the downline that accounts for upline success. Amway's admission that sales to non IBOs are low, confirms this. Thus certain upline make their income from their downline's PV volume, and on tool purchases. I mean even a lottery has winners. Even ponzi schemes and other questionable opportunties have some winners. This is not to suggest that Amway in not legal. Amway is perfectly legal, but the way the opportunity is set up, those who profit, primarily do so at the expense of their trusted downline.
There are no groups that I know of where all the IBOs can win and earn a profit. I would guess that there might be a few rogue groups who only focus on retail sales, and while these groups can be profitable as a group, they are few and far between. This is because most IBOs fall under an LOS such as WWDB, BWW, LTD or N21, and these groups all seemingly focus on recruiting of new IBOs. Yes, they may sprinkle in some suggeestions about selling goods, but generally speaking, their "training" materials consist of motivation speeches, feel good stories (whether true or not), and the theme of never quitting while continuing to purchase more tools.
Some upline have the nerve to start teaching downline that their Amway business is not about making money, but to save your marriage, make you a nicer person, or some other diversion to make you forget that you are losing money month after month after month. Some groups even mix in religion and politics into their functions and meetings. As far as I can see, the typical business buildiing IBO signs up, gets some of the tools and attends a few functions, and finds that the products are hard to sell because they are not priced competetively with other retailers, and that a damaged reputation is nearly impossible to overcome. These IBOs realize they are not going anywhere, and they walk away, chalking up the losses as a life lesson. But apparently, many uplines who lied and deceived in the past are continuing to do so today, often just revising history for their benefit (i.e. lying about making any profit on tools).
Many IBOs, prospects, information seekers and critics read this blog. My question is very simple. What is so great about the Amway opportunity? For most, it is just a bad use of time and money. While some may exist, I don't know of a single person who "did the work once" and sat back collecting barrels of Amway money while sipping Mai Tais on the beaches of Jamaica. I see crown ambassadors working as hard today as they did many years ago. Diamonds losing homes to forclosures, a prominent diamond in bankruptcy proceedings, and a hoard of WWDB diamonds apparently selling off mansions that they allegedly paid for in cash. (It os quite possible that their lifestyles are simply not sustainable).
Where is the benefit in the business for the typical IBO? Just as there are some diamonds, there are lottery winners. Displaying a lottery winner doesn't make it prudent to spend your money on lottery tickets. Displaying a diamond's lifestyle doesn't make Amway a good opportunity. While Amway is a business and not a game of chance, the results of either, sadly are eerily similar - that is a few winners and millions of non winners.
What is so great about the Amway opportunity? I don't see it.
Thursday, August 14, 2014
Amway Korea Running Into Problems?
http://www.businesskorea.co.kr/article/5734/multi-level-shady-amway-korea-flaunts-regulations-receives-slap-wrist
Amway Korea (CEO Park Sae-joon), the largest multi-level marketing company, received correctional orders from the Fair Trade Commission (FTC) for flaunting the regulations set for multi-level marketing companies. However, the FTC has also been criticized for handing out a too-light punishment. - See more at: http://www.businesskorea.co.kr/article/5734/multi-level-shady-amway-korea-flaunts-regulations-receives-slap-wrist#sthash.k9X6r8Nn.dpuf
Unilateral Arrogance Amway CEO Park Se-joon. According to the FTC on July 29, Amway forced its salespersons who resell Amway products to not sell products cheaper than a stated purchase price. If any salesperson violated this order, they were temporarily disqualified from conducting any sales activities.
Disqualified salespersons are not eligible for support allowances, usually paid depending on each person's sales performance and that of their subordinate salespersons. Disqualified salespersons can no longer recruit subordinates, either. This is a clear violation of the Monopoly Regulation and Fair Trade Act (Section 21). Amway salespersons are not employees of the multi-level marketing company, but are considered to be independent retail distributors. Accordingly, salespersons can legally dispose of products they buy from the company via any method, including price discounts. This possibly helps consumers buy daily necessities at lower prices.
The FTC gave Amway corrective orders to stop the price fixing activities and delete the relevant clause from their sales guidelines. The FTC said, “Amway deprived consumers of the opportunity to purchase products at low prices by controlling the sales price.” - See more at: http://www.businesskorea.co.kr/article/5734/multi-level-shady-amway-korea-flaunts-regulations-receives-slap-wrist#sthash.k9X6r8Nn.dpuf
Allowances Less than Top 10 Average
The incomes of Amway salespersons are already quite low. According to an investigation by the FTC, the average annual income of salespersons in the top ten multi-level sales companies in Korea is only 1.08 million won, or US$1,045. But salespeople in Amway, the number one sales company in the industry, received on average only 770,000 won (US$745) per year, less than the average of the other top ten companies.
Furthermore, the top 1 percent of Amway sales employees earned 56 million won (US$54,150) per year each on average, whereas the other 99 percent earned only 470,000 won (US$455) yearly. A source in the industry said, “Due to the limit of the pyramidal multi-level sales method, income differences between top sellers and non-top sellers are inevitable.
Top sellers take the majority of all allowances.” Amway also got penalized for enlisting 103 teachers and public officials in its ranks. According to the relevant laws, national, local, and educational officials cannot join multi-level sales organizations, since they could force civil petitioners or parents to buy products using their social status. - See more at: http://www.businesskorea.co.kr/article/5734/multi-level-shady-amway-korea-flaunts-regulations-receives-slap-wrist#sthash.k9X6r8Nn.dpuf
Despite its actions, blame is falling on the FTC now.
There is controversy over the measures taken against Amway. Based on its web site, Amway officially started to control sales prices from September 2008. They were only caught in October 2012, even though the FTC investigates multi-level marketing companies every year. It took another two years for the FTC to impose corrective orders.
The commission commented on this by saying, “It took quite long for us to impose corrective orders. We have limited human resources, and internal policies and procedures to conduct complete investigations every year.” The punishment for Amway is also considered to be just a slap on the wrist. Other than the FTC’s command to delete the relevant clause, there were no additional punitive measures, even fines. Regardless, the FTC said, “This case will ring an alarm for other companies.” -
See more at: http://www.businesskorea.co.kr/article/5734/multi-level-shady-amway-korea-flaunts-regulations-receives-slap-wrist#sthash.k9X6r8Nn.dpuf
Amway's Empty Promises?
One of the things I often thought odd as an IBO was how our upline would keep teaching us that the Amway business was all about "helping people". Somehow, our upline felt that showing someone the plan or talking to them about the business was helping someone. That is because our upline felt that everyone was dooomed for financial failure if they didn't join Amway. Of course, nothing could be further from the truth now that I am looking back. In fact, I would have to say that building the business and purchasing tools was the CAUSE of financial disaster for some of my fellow IBOs. I remember reading about more than one home foreclosure and a couple of bankruptcies.
It's like IBOs held some dark secret and they could save the world by sharing this secret with prospects. So the theme of many voicemails (Amvox at the time) was about how IBOs in the group were saving the world by helping people. I used to wonder how we were helping people when we basically only "helped" IBOs who wante dto build the business. If someone declined to join, they were forgotten. Our upline said we threw them a life preserver but they rejected it, so we are moving on. it was often compared to a church activity where IBOs are saving souls. I actually found this extra weird because we were often taught that we could give the church money in the future ($10,000 checks) and we could serve in ministry after we were "free". I find this ludicrous now, but at the time, we were told that this was delayed gratification. After I left Amway, I spoke to the senior pastor of the church and he opined that Amway was harmful to many because it simply held too many empty promises. In other words, they promote big dreams and wealth, but very few ever attain any success, for whatever reason. The pastor said the reason for the low success was not relevent. The fact that it was rare to see success was enough to conclude that Amway was not a good opportunity.
In fact, some diamonds can be seen as prosperity preachers. They speak about wealth attained through Amway when in reality their wealth may come from other sourcse, such as tools income, yet they falsely promote Amway as their primary source of success. Then they bait and switch IBOs and tell them that the tools system is the only way to succeed, all the while profiting handsomely from the tools. They then justify their conflict if interest by claiming that IBOs are helping people and/or doing God's work by joining Amway. I believe many IBOs are giving false hope and promises to prospects as taught by upline leaders. All the while they themselves are losing money while thinking they are supporting a noble cause. I hope they awaken before it's too late.
It's like IBOs held some dark secret and they could save the world by sharing this secret with prospects. So the theme of many voicemails (Amvox at the time) was about how IBOs in the group were saving the world by helping people. I used to wonder how we were helping people when we basically only "helped" IBOs who wante dto build the business. If someone declined to join, they were forgotten. Our upline said we threw them a life preserver but they rejected it, so we are moving on. it was often compared to a church activity where IBOs are saving souls. I actually found this extra weird because we were often taught that we could give the church money in the future ($10,000 checks) and we could serve in ministry after we were "free". I find this ludicrous now, but at the time, we were told that this was delayed gratification. After I left Amway, I spoke to the senior pastor of the church and he opined that Amway was harmful to many because it simply held too many empty promises. In other words, they promote big dreams and wealth, but very few ever attain any success, for whatever reason. The pastor said the reason for the low success was not relevent. The fact that it was rare to see success was enough to conclude that Amway was not a good opportunity.
In fact, some diamonds can be seen as prosperity preachers. They speak about wealth attained through Amway when in reality their wealth may come from other sourcse, such as tools income, yet they falsely promote Amway as their primary source of success. Then they bait and switch IBOs and tell them that the tools system is the only way to succeed, all the while profiting handsomely from the tools. They then justify their conflict if interest by claiming that IBOs are helping people and/or doing God's work by joining Amway. I believe many IBOs are giving false hope and promises to prospects as taught by upline leaders. All the while they themselves are losing money while thinking they are supporting a noble cause. I hope they awaken before it's too late.
Wednesday, August 13, 2014
Asking The Right Questions In Amway?
There has been much debate by both critics and Amway IBOs and supporters recently over an issue regarding a WWDB Dream Night function. The issue was an honest question over the cost of a Dream Night Ticket. Well, needless to say, the IBO in question ended up deciding that his blog will no longer accept comments. And while that is certainly his right, he made a statement that IBOs may be told, but makes no sense. Here is the statement:
"Here is a tip when doing research, if you have a question about a company why not give the actual company a call? Wow what a concept."
While on the surface, that me seem logical. If you have a question about how a company works, that might make perfect sense. But the Amway opportunity, along with the attached motivational tools companies, make that a touchy situation. What are you supposed to do? Call WWDB and ask if they are a good company? Call WWDB and ask if they scam downline? What if you call and ask WWDB if most IBOs on their system make money or lose money? If you look at the average income of the majority of IBOs amd factor in expenses such as voicemail, satnding orders and functions, I can only conclude that the vast majority of IBOs on the system have to be losing money. The longer you stay in the system, the more you lose. Furthermore, I believe there are more people winning the powerball lottery in the US than the number of new WWDB diamonds emerging in the US in the last dozen years ago or so.
Imagine if you had questions and simply asked the person? Hello? Mr. Al Capone, I heard you were a gangster in charge of organized crime. But I thought it would only be fair if I got the answer directly from you. What's that? You're not a gangster and you go to church? Okay, I see. Well that clears that up. Mr. Capone is not a gangster, I confirmed that by asking him. Do you see the ridiculous justification of just asking the person in question? Isn't a better way to ask a neutral thrid party?
Many IBOs will also suggest that you check the better business bureau. Well, Amway has a good mark from the better business bureau. But Amway isn't selling you voicemail and other support materials right? That would be WWDB or some other motivational group, or a particular double or triple diamond, whose business may not have been registered or known to the better business bureau.
I believe IBOs, information seekers, and prospects can find a ton of information on the internet using google. Upline leaders disourage this because too much frank and disparaging information exists about the Amway opportunity. But much of that information is real life true experiences. I was an up and coming "mover and shaker" in WWDB. This blog relects much of my real experiences and the realizations I came to after having left Amway and WWDB. Sadly, my experience was not a good one, but more and more I see evidence that what I was taught a dozen years ago is still taught today, and by some of the same leaders. I hope my experience can help others.
"Here is a tip when doing research, if you have a question about a company why not give the actual company a call? Wow what a concept."
While on the surface, that me seem logical. If you have a question about how a company works, that might make perfect sense. But the Amway opportunity, along with the attached motivational tools companies, make that a touchy situation. What are you supposed to do? Call WWDB and ask if they are a good company? Call WWDB and ask if they scam downline? What if you call and ask WWDB if most IBOs on their system make money or lose money? If you look at the average income of the majority of IBOs amd factor in expenses such as voicemail, satnding orders and functions, I can only conclude that the vast majority of IBOs on the system have to be losing money. The longer you stay in the system, the more you lose. Furthermore, I believe there are more people winning the powerball lottery in the US than the number of new WWDB diamonds emerging in the US in the last dozen years ago or so.
Imagine if you had questions and simply asked the person? Hello? Mr. Al Capone, I heard you were a gangster in charge of organized crime. But I thought it would only be fair if I got the answer directly from you. What's that? You're not a gangster and you go to church? Okay, I see. Well that clears that up. Mr. Capone is not a gangster, I confirmed that by asking him. Do you see the ridiculous justification of just asking the person in question? Isn't a better way to ask a neutral thrid party?
Many IBOs will also suggest that you check the better business bureau. Well, Amway has a good mark from the better business bureau. But Amway isn't selling you voicemail and other support materials right? That would be WWDB or some other motivational group, or a particular double or triple diamond, whose business may not have been registered or known to the better business bureau.
I believe IBOs, information seekers, and prospects can find a ton of information on the internet using google. Upline leaders disourage this because too much frank and disparaging information exists about the Amway opportunity. But much of that information is real life true experiences. I was an up and coming "mover and shaker" in WWDB. This blog relects much of my real experiences and the realizations I came to after having left Amway and WWDB. Sadly, my experience was not a good one, but more and more I see evidence that what I was taught a dozen years ago is still taught today, and by some of the same leaders. I hope my experience can help others.
Tuesday, August 12, 2014
Does Your Amway Upline Give Strange Answers?
Looking back at my IBO days, I can now laugh at some of the strange stuff we did and believe it or not, I have reason to believe that my old LOS, WWDB still teaches some of this and some other major groups also teach it. I believe some of these practices were the reason why some people refer to the Amway business as cult or having cult like qualities. If you recognize some of these practices, you might be in an unethical group and you should ask your upline the tough questions and possibly reconsider or reprioritize your involvement in the business.
Submission to upline was one of the things we were told. Our group was told that upline would never purposely lead us astray so we should trust them and never try anything without checking upline. Afterall, upline had experience and probably had all the answers. Some of this checking upline included asking permission to get married, buy a car or a home, or even something as small as purchasing a camera. The upline said maybe someone upline might have advice on how to get a good deal on a camera so no harm in checking upline before making a purchase. It is my guess that upline didn't want your disposable income being spent on anything other than standing orders and functions.
Late meetings. Our upline was into late meetings, many occuring after midnight. I suppose it was a show of loyalty and dedication to the upline and the system. In reality, it made most people angry at their jobs because they had to wake up early to go to work. For me it made me mad at our upline because the meetings taught us nothing of substance and it just made us tired. Our upline used to talk about time being important but it was never important enough to make him show up on time for his own late night meetings. Another cult like factor - sleep deprivation.
Secrets. Anytime we asked about how much income uplines may have been earning, we were either told it's none of our business or shown a photocopy of a 5 year old bonus check that someone upline may have received. Our proof that the business worked was upline showing off pictures of sports cars and mansions. Of course we now find that some WWDB diamonds had homes foreclosed, and one prominent triple diamond had some dealings in bankruptcy court. Looking back, I suspect that many diamonds have mortgages, which would be nor problem except that these leaders scoffed at the sutpidity of having a loan. That diamonds pay cash for everything, including homes. My former sponsor still lives in a run down rented home beause he won't purchase a home unless he's got the cash. My former sponsor is a physician so I find his position on buying a home preposterous. His oldest child, a son probably grew up deprived of his parents because of dedication to the system and the functions.
Losing money is success. Many times, our group was told that losing money was a sign of success. It was success because we were investing in our futures. That the business really is not about money but about friendships. I suppose upline taught this because everyone was losing money so it was nice to hear that success was around the corner, and that we were all nicer people and on our way to success if we just attended more functions and bought more standing orders. People who sold off some of their personal property were edified if they did so to attend a function. Obviously these folks were not advised to run their business within their means. Upline even said that going into debt was okay, but only if the debt was to invest in the business or to buy extra function tickets.
While some of these practices seem bizarre, I believe it is because the upline advice was self serving and meant to channel their downline's dollars into tool purchases. It is the only conclusion I can make. What's your conclusion?
Submission to upline was one of the things we were told. Our group was told that upline would never purposely lead us astray so we should trust them and never try anything without checking upline. Afterall, upline had experience and probably had all the answers. Some of this checking upline included asking permission to get married, buy a car or a home, or even something as small as purchasing a camera. The upline said maybe someone upline might have advice on how to get a good deal on a camera so no harm in checking upline before making a purchase. It is my guess that upline didn't want your disposable income being spent on anything other than standing orders and functions.
Late meetings. Our upline was into late meetings, many occuring after midnight. I suppose it was a show of loyalty and dedication to the upline and the system. In reality, it made most people angry at their jobs because they had to wake up early to go to work. For me it made me mad at our upline because the meetings taught us nothing of substance and it just made us tired. Our upline used to talk about time being important but it was never important enough to make him show up on time for his own late night meetings. Another cult like factor - sleep deprivation.
Secrets. Anytime we asked about how much income uplines may have been earning, we were either told it's none of our business or shown a photocopy of a 5 year old bonus check that someone upline may have received. Our proof that the business worked was upline showing off pictures of sports cars and mansions. Of course we now find that some WWDB diamonds had homes foreclosed, and one prominent triple diamond had some dealings in bankruptcy court. Looking back, I suspect that many diamonds have mortgages, which would be nor problem except that these leaders scoffed at the sutpidity of having a loan. That diamonds pay cash for everything, including homes. My former sponsor still lives in a run down rented home beause he won't purchase a home unless he's got the cash. My former sponsor is a physician so I find his position on buying a home preposterous. His oldest child, a son probably grew up deprived of his parents because of dedication to the system and the functions.
Losing money is success. Many times, our group was told that losing money was a sign of success. It was success because we were investing in our futures. That the business really is not about money but about friendships. I suppose upline taught this because everyone was losing money so it was nice to hear that success was around the corner, and that we were all nicer people and on our way to success if we just attended more functions and bought more standing orders. People who sold off some of their personal property were edified if they did so to attend a function. Obviously these folks were not advised to run their business within their means. Upline even said that going into debt was okay, but only if the debt was to invest in the business or to buy extra function tickets.
While some of these practices seem bizarre, I believe it is because the upline advice was self serving and meant to channel their downline's dollars into tool purchases. It is the only conclusion I can make. What's your conclusion?
Monday, August 11, 2014
Are Amway Diamonds Broke?
I recently read an article on what constitutes wealth. Some say an annual income of $100,000 would make them wealthy, some say assets exceeding $4 million would do it, and some estimated that $2 million would make them "rich". Of course, everything is relative and someone earning $25,000 a year would think that $100,000 a year is wealth, etc. College students might think $40,000 a year is awesome because many have little money to begin with. I'm sure someone like Bill Gates would not consider $4 million to be astonishing. It's all relative. If you are content with what you have, you are likely relatively well off already.
But let's talk about Amway diamonds. I say diamond because it is basically the pinnacle of success. It is the crowning achievement of the 6-4-2 plan (or other variations) that many groups show. The average diamond (non Q12) earns about $150,000, according to Amway. Now $150,000 sounds like a lot of money to young people or to those with lower wage types of jobs, or those who are just starting out in their careers. But we also know that diamonds earn income from the sale of tools. Some groups advertise (verbally) that someone might earn $100,000 a year from the tools/speaking income.
Let's be generous and say the diamond earns $300,000 a year from Amway and tools income. Income tax and medical insurance for the family will eat up about 40% of that right off the top, leaving about $180,000. Fantastic you might say? Well, a diamond certainly would live in a million dollar mansion, which would give you about a $6000 a month mortgage or $72,000 a year, leaving $108,000. (Although many - a - diamond pays for their homes in cash) Fantastic right? Well, diamonds are constantly traveling to various functions, flying first class and staying only at 5 star hotels right? So an average of 1 trip per month with a family, first class and a 5 star hotel would probably cost about $5000 or more per trip, or about $60,000 a year, now leaving $68,000 for this diamond's yearly budget. A good diamond with a family surely consumes 300 PV per month for household goods, or about $900 a month or about $11,000 a year, leaving $57,000 for the rest of the year. A good diamond is often a Christian who would faithfully tithe 10% of his income, or about $30,000 a year, leaving the diamond with $27,000 a year, or about $2250 a month to pay for their monthly electric and utility bills, gas, car payments, meals and entertainment.
Yes, some expenses may be slightly higher or lower, but what I am trying to illustrate is that even an above average diamond with tools income is more likely to be broke than wealthy if they live the lifestyles porttrayed at functions such as dream night or other major functions. Do the math. It is unlikely that diamonds pay cash for everything and it is unlikely that fabulous lifestyles can be sustained on a diamond income. There is plenty of evidence out there. Diamond's homes foreclosed, diamonds behind on income taxes, a prominent triple diamond in bankruptcy proceeding, many diamonds selling off their homes in a bad real estate market.
I truly believe that it is quite possible for many diamonds to be broke. What do you think?
But let's talk about Amway diamonds. I say diamond because it is basically the pinnacle of success. It is the crowning achievement of the 6-4-2 plan (or other variations) that many groups show. The average diamond (non Q12) earns about $150,000, according to Amway. Now $150,000 sounds like a lot of money to young people or to those with lower wage types of jobs, or those who are just starting out in their careers. But we also know that diamonds earn income from the sale of tools. Some groups advertise (verbally) that someone might earn $100,000 a year from the tools/speaking income.
Let's be generous and say the diamond earns $300,000 a year from Amway and tools income. Income tax and medical insurance for the family will eat up about 40% of that right off the top, leaving about $180,000. Fantastic you might say? Well, a diamond certainly would live in a million dollar mansion, which would give you about a $6000 a month mortgage or $72,000 a year, leaving $108,000. (Although many - a - diamond pays for their homes in cash) Fantastic right? Well, diamonds are constantly traveling to various functions, flying first class and staying only at 5 star hotels right? So an average of 1 trip per month with a family, first class and a 5 star hotel would probably cost about $5000 or more per trip, or about $60,000 a year, now leaving $68,000 for this diamond's yearly budget. A good diamond with a family surely consumes 300 PV per month for household goods, or about $900 a month or about $11,000 a year, leaving $57,000 for the rest of the year. A good diamond is often a Christian who would faithfully tithe 10% of his income, or about $30,000 a year, leaving the diamond with $27,000 a year, or about $2250 a month to pay for their monthly electric and utility bills, gas, car payments, meals and entertainment.
Yes, some expenses may be slightly higher or lower, but what I am trying to illustrate is that even an above average diamond with tools income is more likely to be broke than wealthy if they live the lifestyles porttrayed at functions such as dream night or other major functions. Do the math. It is unlikely that diamonds pay cash for everything and it is unlikely that fabulous lifestyles can be sustained on a diamond income. There is plenty of evidence out there. Diamond's homes foreclosed, diamonds behind on income taxes, a prominent triple diamond in bankruptcy proceeding, many diamonds selling off their homes in a bad real estate market.
I truly believe that it is quite possible for many diamonds to be broke. What do you think?
Thursday, August 7, 2014
Amway Losers?
One of the things that my upline taught, and I believe is still taught today in various groups is that winners join Amway and losers do not. Or that you were a winner because you were doing something to better your financial future and those who didn't were losers. or broke minded. Of course the upline who said this had no knowledge about those who were not in Amway. Some of them may already have been financially sound or may have been doing something to better their financial future. I'm not sure why these uplines, who promote "positive", had to resort to calling people losers simpy because they did not agree that Amway was the greatest thing since sliced bread.
In many games or sporting events, there will be someone or a team that wins the game and someone or a team that loses the game. Losing a game doesn't make you a loser and certainly, a team that wins the game would not say the losing team were losers. Can you imagine a pro football team's coach taking the podium after a game and saying his team won because the other team was a bunch or broke minded gutless losers? That would never happen, yet we see that frequently in the Amway/IBO world. The owner of Amway, Rich DeVos had once said in a recorded message that just because people do not agree with you (paraphrased) about Amway, does not make them losers and that IBOs should not call people losers.
In all of this, people's jobs are also criticized. That a job stand for "just over broke" or "jackass of the boss" and other blurbs. Many IBO's goals and dreams consist of ditching their job so they can sleep all day and live a life of luxury. Ironically, it is most IBO's jobs that continue to produce income so they can pay their bills and feed their family. It is also an IBO's job that funds their Amway and AMO expenses such as product purchases and functions and voicemail, etc. Without having a job, most people could not even join Amway or pay for any tools. Sadly, most IBOs won't make any money in Amway either, and will have to continue to work at their jobs. I do not believe that someone earning an honest living working a job is a loser. Ironically, the folks calling people losers are often not even netting a profit from their Amway business!
Yes, in this business or the sports world, there will be winners and there will be losers. The question is whether you are the one who is allowed to be the judge of who is and who isn't. I would also suggest that IBOs are completely shutting down potential future business by their behavior. What if I went to a store to purchase something but the item was not available on that particular day, so I don't purchase anything and leave. As I leave, the store owner says I am a loser for not buying something there. Will I go back? Very unlikely. If an IBO truly sees themselves as a store owner, all prospects should be seen as potential business, whether future or present. If your upline tells you that people not interested are losers, you should hand him a mirror.
In many games or sporting events, there will be someone or a team that wins the game and someone or a team that loses the game. Losing a game doesn't make you a loser and certainly, a team that wins the game would not say the losing team were losers. Can you imagine a pro football team's coach taking the podium after a game and saying his team won because the other team was a bunch or broke minded gutless losers? That would never happen, yet we see that frequently in the Amway/IBO world. The owner of Amway, Rich DeVos had once said in a recorded message that just because people do not agree with you (paraphrased) about Amway, does not make them losers and that IBOs should not call people losers.
In all of this, people's jobs are also criticized. That a job stand for "just over broke" or "jackass of the boss" and other blurbs. Many IBO's goals and dreams consist of ditching their job so they can sleep all day and live a life of luxury. Ironically, it is most IBO's jobs that continue to produce income so they can pay their bills and feed their family. It is also an IBO's job that funds their Amway and AMO expenses such as product purchases and functions and voicemail, etc. Without having a job, most people could not even join Amway or pay for any tools. Sadly, most IBOs won't make any money in Amway either, and will have to continue to work at their jobs. I do not believe that someone earning an honest living working a job is a loser. Ironically, the folks calling people losers are often not even netting a profit from their Amway business!
Yes, in this business or the sports world, there will be winners and there will be losers. The question is whether you are the one who is allowed to be the judge of who is and who isn't. I would also suggest that IBOs are completely shutting down potential future business by their behavior. What if I went to a store to purchase something but the item was not available on that particular day, so I don't purchase anything and leave. As I leave, the store owner says I am a loser for not buying something there. Will I go back? Very unlikely. If an IBO truly sees themselves as a store owner, all prospects should be seen as potential business, whether future or present. If your upline tells you that people not interested are losers, you should hand him a mirror.
Wednesday, August 6, 2014
Opposing Views On Amway?
One of the things I find curious and humorous at the same time is how people who defend Amway often will not allow opposing viewpoints on their Amway propaganda blogs and forums. They will post an article and allow no comments or will not allow comments unless they are positive and paint a rosy picture about Amway. Amway's biggest defender IBOFightback, banned me from his truth about amway blog recently for no reason. In fact I posted only a handful of comments there in years and the comments were truthful and not attacks, yet he felt my presence needed to be excluded from his blog perhaps because the truth itself is negative about Amway. I suppose though, that David Steadson's (IBOFB) lack of credibility (in my book) makes the banning a minor issue. His website is filled with pro Amway folks who back up Amway, even bad practices at times. I guess when you see the world through rose colored glasses. you don't see the reality.
I also had an exchange not too long ago with an IBO via email. He also runs a pro Amway blog but hasn't been active recently. He doesn't allow comments on his blog unless they praise Amway. I just don't understand why the need to put spin on the truth. It is a fact that the average Amway IBO earns very little and that most IBOs make little or nothing. Many who participate in the training sessions end up losing money. Those are tidbits that match up with my experience. It is usually former IBOs who can verify this claim. Seems that current IBOs do not admit they are losing money. As an IBO, I was taught "fake it till you make it". That suggests that you appear successful until you actually go diamond or whatever. In the end, a pig with lipstick on it is still a pig.
Joecool allows opposing views on this blog. Even some comments that are critical of me are allowed. I even had some (I presume) IBOs who left threats on this blog. I suspect that one or some of them also sent me threats via email. Still, I allow most comments on here. I do not allow racist or extremely hateful comments, or comments with spam. I have nothing to hide when it comes to my views on Amway. So what do Amway apologists and IBOs have to hide? Would it be damaging to have the truth on your blog or forum? Is the internet already inundated with negative Amway information and comments?
I believe Amway is partly to blame. The AMO's (Amway Motivational Organiztions) such as Network 21, WWDB or BWW are the ones who say and do unethical things. Amway is the only entity who can take action against these groups but it appears that substantial action is lacking and therefore, these groups continue to teach bad business practices which filter down to many IBOs and contributes to Amway having a bad reputation. I guess Amway is sleeping in the bed they made. Until some bad practices are stopped or corrected, there will continue to be people who had a bad experience in Amway. It is what it is. Amway started an accreditation program to curb abuse but that practice appears of the surface to be a paper tiger (no teeth).
I also had an exchange not too long ago with an IBO via email. He also runs a pro Amway blog but hasn't been active recently. He doesn't allow comments on his blog unless they praise Amway. I just don't understand why the need to put spin on the truth. It is a fact that the average Amway IBO earns very little and that most IBOs make little or nothing. Many who participate in the training sessions end up losing money. Those are tidbits that match up with my experience. It is usually former IBOs who can verify this claim. Seems that current IBOs do not admit they are losing money. As an IBO, I was taught "fake it till you make it". That suggests that you appear successful until you actually go diamond or whatever. In the end, a pig with lipstick on it is still a pig.
Joecool allows opposing views on this blog. Even some comments that are critical of me are allowed. I even had some (I presume) IBOs who left threats on this blog. I suspect that one or some of them also sent me threats via email. Still, I allow most comments on here. I do not allow racist or extremely hateful comments, or comments with spam. I have nothing to hide when it comes to my views on Amway. So what do Amway apologists and IBOs have to hide? Would it be damaging to have the truth on your blog or forum? Is the internet already inundated with negative Amway information and comments?
I believe Amway is partly to blame. The AMO's (Amway Motivational Organiztions) such as Network 21, WWDB or BWW are the ones who say and do unethical things. Amway is the only entity who can take action against these groups but it appears that substantial action is lacking and therefore, these groups continue to teach bad business practices which filter down to many IBOs and contributes to Amway having a bad reputation. I guess Amway is sleeping in the bed they made. Until some bad practices are stopped or corrected, there will continue to be people who had a bad experience in Amway. It is what it is. Amway started an accreditation program to curb abuse but that practice appears of the surface to be a paper tiger (no teeth).
Tuesday, August 5, 2014
The Amway 6-4-2 Plan?
Let’s break down the 6-4-2 plan (Re-print)
Basically, it’s a plan to go direct (platinum) and all you need to do is sponsor 6 of these direct groups and you’re a diamond and will retire early and life in luxury right?
Assumptions: 1PV = 2.5BV. 1PV costs about $2.70.
The 6-4-2 plan has the premise that you do 100 PV, and you sponsor 6 frontline who do 100 PV. Your six frontline in turn sponsor 4 (24 IBOs) each who do 100 PV. And each of these 4 IBOs sponsor two IBOs (48 IBOs).
So your direct empire looks like this:
1 platinum Sponsored 6 who sponsored 4 who sponsored 2
6 1300 PV groups Sponsored 4 who sponsored 2
24 300 PV groups Sponsored 2
48 100 PV IBOs
Total 7900 PV. 7900 PV = (1 PV = 2.5 BV) 19750 BV.
19,750 BV @25% = $4937.50 per month. Annualized = $59,250. Add Q12 bonus 69,250 (platinum group yearly income, not counting retail sales profit. Cost of product
(approximate) $21,300 per month or $255,960 per year to maintain 7900 PV.
The platinum must pay his 6 1300 PV groups. 6 frontline 1300 PV = 3250 BV = $390 per month, or $4680 per year. $4680 x 6 = 28,080.
The Platinum keeps 69,250 – 28,080 = 41,170 (net, but not including operating and system expenses, but this includes the Q 12 bonus)
Now, the 6 frontline must pay their 4 IBOs who sponsored two. 300 PV = 750 BV = $45
Per month, or $540 per year. Thus the 6 frontline earn $4680 per year but pay out $2160 downline for a net of $2520 per year, or $210 per month.
Ok, and then each of the IBOs who earn $45 per month or $540 per year must pay their downline (2 each) $7.50 per month, or $90 per year x 2 = $15 month or 180 per year.
Thus the 300 PV IBO earns $30 per month or $360 per year.
Let’s review:
1 platinum earns $3430 per month, or $41,170 per year
6 1300 PV IBOs earn $210 per month, or $2520 per year
24 300 PV IBOs earn $30 per month, or $360 per year
48 100 PV IBOs earn $7.50 per month, or $90 per year
This is before taxes and expenses, but also does not include retail profits, but hey, we teach buy from yourself right?
OK, let’s look at tools expenses. Let’s say only the platinum, the 6 frontline and the 4 each who sponsored others are on tools (Fair assessment?) That would be 31 IBOs out of a group of 79 IBOs on tools or 39% of the group, and remember that all of these IBOs do 100 PV every month.
Tools cost: KATE, Website, standing order, book of the month, open meetings, monthly functions, major functions (some IBOs have to fly to functions), gas, incidentals, babysitters. Let’s estimate these tools and other expenses to be $160 per month (Very very conservative). $160 per month = $1920 per year.
(My expenses as a single IBO were over $200 a month on average)
Now let’s review the group NET income.
1 platinum $3430 - $160 = $3270 per month, or $39,240 per year
6 frontline (1300 PV) $210 -$160 = $50 per month, or $600 per year
24 (300 PV) $30 - $160 = <$130> per month loss of $1560 per year
48 IBOs earn $7.50 per month or $90 per year.
Group income = $69,250.
Group Tools expenses = (31 x $160 = $4960 per month, or $59,520 per year)
Group profit = $9,730 for the year.
79 IBOs putting in 10 hours per week = 790 hours per week or 9480 hours per year.
These IBOs on average made a whopping $1.02 per hour for the year collectively.
Or………
Platinum made $78.48 per hour
6 frontline IBOs made $1.15 per hour
24 – 300 PV IBOs lost $3 per hour
48 100 PV IBOs made 17 cents per hour.
Basically, it’s a plan to go direct (platinum) and all you need to do is sponsor 6 of these direct groups and you’re a diamond and will retire early and life in luxury right?
Assumptions: 1PV = 2.5BV. 1PV costs about $2.70.
The 6-4-2 plan has the premise that you do 100 PV, and you sponsor 6 frontline who do 100 PV. Your six frontline in turn sponsor 4 (24 IBOs) each who do 100 PV. And each of these 4 IBOs sponsor two IBOs (48 IBOs).
So your direct empire looks like this:
1 platinum Sponsored 6 who sponsored 4 who sponsored 2
6 1300 PV groups Sponsored 4 who sponsored 2
24 300 PV groups Sponsored 2
48 100 PV IBOs
Total 7900 PV. 7900 PV = (1 PV = 2.5 BV) 19750 BV.
19,750 BV @25% = $4937.50 per month. Annualized = $59,250. Add Q12 bonus 69,250 (platinum group yearly income, not counting retail sales profit. Cost of product
(approximate) $21,300 per month or $255,960 per year to maintain 7900 PV.
The platinum must pay his 6 1300 PV groups. 6 frontline 1300 PV = 3250 BV = $390 per month, or $4680 per year. $4680 x 6 = 28,080.
The Platinum keeps 69,250 – 28,080 = 41,170 (net, but not including operating and system expenses, but this includes the Q 12 bonus)
Now, the 6 frontline must pay their 4 IBOs who sponsored two. 300 PV = 750 BV = $45
Per month, or $540 per year. Thus the 6 frontline earn $4680 per year but pay out $2160 downline for a net of $2520 per year, or $210 per month.
Ok, and then each of the IBOs who earn $45 per month or $540 per year must pay their downline (2 each) $7.50 per month, or $90 per year x 2 = $15 month or 180 per year.
Thus the 300 PV IBO earns $30 per month or $360 per year.
Let’s review:
1 platinum earns $3430 per month, or $41,170 per year
6 1300 PV IBOs earn $210 per month, or $2520 per year
24 300 PV IBOs earn $30 per month, or $360 per year
48 100 PV IBOs earn $7.50 per month, or $90 per year
This is before taxes and expenses, but also does not include retail profits, but hey, we teach buy from yourself right?
OK, let’s look at tools expenses. Let’s say only the platinum, the 6 frontline and the 4 each who sponsored others are on tools (Fair assessment?) That would be 31 IBOs out of a group of 79 IBOs on tools or 39% of the group, and remember that all of these IBOs do 100 PV every month.
Tools cost: KATE, Website, standing order, book of the month, open meetings, monthly functions, major functions (some IBOs have to fly to functions), gas, incidentals, babysitters. Let’s estimate these tools and other expenses to be $160 per month (Very very conservative). $160 per month = $1920 per year.
(My expenses as a single IBO were over $200 a month on average)
Now let’s review the group NET income.
1 platinum $3430 - $160 = $3270 per month, or $39,240 per year
6 frontline (1300 PV) $210 -$160 = $50 per month, or $600 per year
24 (300 PV) $30 - $160 = <$130> per month loss of $1560 per year
48 IBOs earn $7.50 per month or $90 per year.
Group income = $69,250.
Group Tools expenses = (31 x $160 = $4960 per month, or $59,520 per year)
Group profit = $9,730 for the year.
79 IBOs putting in 10 hours per week = 790 hours per week or 9480 hours per year.
These IBOs on average made a whopping $1.02 per hour for the year collectively.
Or………
Platinum made $78.48 per hour
6 frontline IBOs made $1.15 per hour
24 – 300 PV IBOs lost $3 per hour
48 100 PV IBOs made 17 cents per hour.
Monday, August 4, 2014
Success In Amway Can't Be Denied?
Success is subjective. Someone making ten dollars might be considered successful, for others, nothing less than a barrel of cash will suffice. One other important point is that there are undoubtably some very successful people in Amway. I am sure that some Amway diamonds are quite well off and enjoy some of the finer things in life. But the reality is that these successes are very very rare and many of these success apparently are not sustainable as many people are led to believe.
But the bigger issue in the Amway opportunity is where the success comes from. Sure, many people want to "go diamond" and live in luxury while barrels of cash roll in. But what is unknown to many, is that the few who enjoy the lifestyle and trappings do so at the expense of their downline. The downline move the volume and the downline purchases the system materials, both of which is profitable for the upline. Because Amway products, admittedly are not commonly sold to people who are not IBOs, then anyone can conclude that upline success comes from the pockets of the downline. Most downline would be better off writing a check for $100 each month to their upline and not participating in the business or buying products at all.
This in itself would not be such an issue if the system actually churned out new successes frequently AND if the downline were not led to believe that the system is the key to their success. But less than one half of one percent of IBOs ever reach platinum and out of those who do, only a tiny fraction of one percent ever attain the diamond level. But the business has tens of millions of people who tried and could never achieve what was promoted. Lack of effort may be a factor, but when that many people try and fail, it's evident that the system is flawed as well.
To summarize, it is possible for someone to achieve a level of success in Amway, but it is so difficult and so rare that IBOs probably have a better chance of winning the lottery or being struck by lightning than they do of achieving a significant level in the Amway business. Some people are successful, but it is usually at the expense of their downline. The catch is that uplines will teach their faithful downline IBOs that attending a function or buying a standing order is success, regardless of whether an IBO is earning a profit. So many IBOs think they're successful but they are simply fooling themselves with the help of their upline.
Success is undeniable, but sadly for the vast majority of IBOs, it is also unattainable, at least in the Amway opportunity.
But the bigger issue in the Amway opportunity is where the success comes from. Sure, many people want to "go diamond" and live in luxury while barrels of cash roll in. But what is unknown to many, is that the few who enjoy the lifestyle and trappings do so at the expense of their downline. The downline move the volume and the downline purchases the system materials, both of which is profitable for the upline. Because Amway products, admittedly are not commonly sold to people who are not IBOs, then anyone can conclude that upline success comes from the pockets of the downline. Most downline would be better off writing a check for $100 each month to their upline and not participating in the business or buying products at all.
This in itself would not be such an issue if the system actually churned out new successes frequently AND if the downline were not led to believe that the system is the key to their success. But less than one half of one percent of IBOs ever reach platinum and out of those who do, only a tiny fraction of one percent ever attain the diamond level. But the business has tens of millions of people who tried and could never achieve what was promoted. Lack of effort may be a factor, but when that many people try and fail, it's evident that the system is flawed as well.
To summarize, it is possible for someone to achieve a level of success in Amway, but it is so difficult and so rare that IBOs probably have a better chance of winning the lottery or being struck by lightning than they do of achieving a significant level in the Amway business. Some people are successful, but it is usually at the expense of their downline. The catch is that uplines will teach their faithful downline IBOs that attending a function or buying a standing order is success, regardless of whether an IBO is earning a profit. So many IBOs think they're successful but they are simply fooling themselves with the help of their upline.
Success is undeniable, but sadly for the vast majority of IBOs, it is also unattainable, at least in the Amway opportunity.
Friday, August 1, 2014
Who Needs A JOB When You Can Join Amway?
One of the things upline leaders apparently do is to disparage people with jobs. Oh, they would say we needed people to wait on our tables and clean our toilets, but in general, jobs were put down and basically the group was told that Amway is their best chance at achieving financial freedom, giving them the ability to flush their jobs. Ironically, IBO's jobs are what funds their Amway businesses. Most IBOs would be out of business within weeks if not for their job income funding their Amway businesses.
The key selling point appears to be the 2-5 years of part time work rather than working a job for 30 - 40 years and then retiring on social security which may or may not be there when you retire. This plants a fear in people about the future and then the Amway opportunity is presented in a positive light because the Amway opportunity comes with a low start up cost. What uplines do not mention is how the opportunity can become a money pit as the monthly defacto 100 PV quota starts to add up. It is my guess that if people only bought items they truly needed, these IBOs would likely move 100 PV every three months, unless they are actively selling goods to non IBO customers.
When an IBO finally agrees to register, it is then that the hidden costs are revealed. Many uplines will introduce standing orders and functions and present these tools as vital to IBO success. Most new IBOs don't know better and feel subtle pressure to conform and give it a try. Some upline may loan some tools to downline in the beginning but evemtually, the IBO will be encouraged to be a "serious" business owner who should be purchasing their own tools to loan to their downline and the cycle goes on.
If you examine some version of the Amway recruitment plan, you will see that most IBOs are at the 100 PV level, which will reward you with a monthly bonus of about $10or so. If that same IBO subscribes to the tools system, than IBO will likely be losing over $100 a month not including the product purchases. And because many IBOs have been convinced that working a job is so horrible, that they can be convinced that this condition of losing money is temporary and that untold wealth is right around the corner. Sadly, for most, this condition is the norm and even the sponsorship of a few downline, the losses continue to mount. Yet many are convinced that this is better than a job.
Ironically, a job allows people to pay their monthly bills, feed their families and many people enjoy their work and co workers. While upline leaders may convince you otherwise, it is this very same excuse upline leaders use when asked why they are still working instead of walking the beaches of the world collecting massive amounts of residual income. I would encourage IBOs to truly analyze their efforts in Amway and determine if it is beneficial to your finances. In most cases, your Amway efforts ONLY benefits your upline's finances. For most who get involved, the Amway opportunity is not better than a job. Be careful!
The key selling point appears to be the 2-5 years of part time work rather than working a job for 30 - 40 years and then retiring on social security which may or may not be there when you retire. This plants a fear in people about the future and then the Amway opportunity is presented in a positive light because the Amway opportunity comes with a low start up cost. What uplines do not mention is how the opportunity can become a money pit as the monthly defacto 100 PV quota starts to add up. It is my guess that if people only bought items they truly needed, these IBOs would likely move 100 PV every three months, unless they are actively selling goods to non IBO customers.
When an IBO finally agrees to register, it is then that the hidden costs are revealed. Many uplines will introduce standing orders and functions and present these tools as vital to IBO success. Most new IBOs don't know better and feel subtle pressure to conform and give it a try. Some upline may loan some tools to downline in the beginning but evemtually, the IBO will be encouraged to be a "serious" business owner who should be purchasing their own tools to loan to their downline and the cycle goes on.
If you examine some version of the Amway recruitment plan, you will see that most IBOs are at the 100 PV level, which will reward you with a monthly bonus of about $10or so. If that same IBO subscribes to the tools system, than IBO will likely be losing over $100 a month not including the product purchases. And because many IBOs have been convinced that working a job is so horrible, that they can be convinced that this condition of losing money is temporary and that untold wealth is right around the corner. Sadly, for most, this condition is the norm and even the sponsorship of a few downline, the losses continue to mount. Yet many are convinced that this is better than a job.
Ironically, a job allows people to pay their monthly bills, feed their families and many people enjoy their work and co workers. While upline leaders may convince you otherwise, it is this very same excuse upline leaders use when asked why they are still working instead of walking the beaches of the world collecting massive amounts of residual income. I would encourage IBOs to truly analyze their efforts in Amway and determine if it is beneficial to your finances. In most cases, your Amway efforts ONLY benefits your upline's finances. For most who get involved, the Amway opportunity is not better than a job. Be careful!
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