Tuesday, September 13, 2016

Amway and WWDB Years Later?

When I was a young IBO, I saw the 6-4-2 plan and thought it was realistic to go direct and to find six (6) downlines who could do the same thing. I didn't know the realistic chances of doing this, but the presentation made sense so I went with it. I basically built my group on excitement and it seemed like the system could work. Sadly, as I climbed the ranks, my bottom line did not change. I did not "net" $200 at the 1000 PV level, and I did not "net" $1000 a month at 4000 PV as my upline taught. I had the parameters they taught, but the reality was my leaders taught everyone to pump what little profits we earned into buying more tools.

My leaders also taught people to get out of debt, which was good advice on the surface, but at the same time, any disposable income left over was to be channeled into tools, and for those who did not escape debt, they were told it was okay to go deeper in debt, but only if it was to "invest" in their businesses by purchasing more tools. Thus it certainly appears that upline's advice was purely self serving and had nothing to do with an IBO's individual success.

I was in WWDB and they (upline) said that WWDB was breaking the most new diamonds and that WWDB diamonds were the most profitable (although the claims were never proven). So here it is many years later, where are all these new diamonds? Aside from from foreign diamonds, there are (I believe) less than a handful of new diamonds from WWDB in the US from the time I left the business. Now I may be wrong, but even if it was a few more than a handful of new diamonds, that is a miserable success rate given the tens or hundreds of thousands of IBOs churning thru the system and the of amount of cash spent by downline on tools and the claims made my upline about the tools.

We have also seen some WWDB diamonds end up in home foreclosures. Where is the integrity and financial acumen these leaders boasted about? Where is the success and long term financial security available to everyone that was touted? I believe more diamonds and emeralds fell out of qualification than new pins emerged. The business was promoted as one that would stand the test of time. Sadly, I believe WWDB and the Amway opportunity as promoted by WWDB has been a miserable failure. There is little success to speak of, just he same old tired diamonds showing off a lifestyle that some of them apparently can no longer afford. Where is the success?

It is many years later and we are still waiting.......


Mrmaximum said...

This Joecool, this right here. This was the “4,000” example that I had relayed on QBlog so long ago. Using what is preached on stage, at 4,000 pts with proper structure one should be making between $800 - $1,000 per month. Since an IBO should’ve been “breaking even” at 2,500 pts, where ALL system expenses plus their products are now being taken care of by the business that should actually mean a 4,000 pin should have between $1,600 - $1,800 per month. They don’t have to buy ‘negative’ products anymore so they pocket the money.

Here’s the deal; forget Diamond, forget Emerald, and forget Sapphire, Ruby, or even Platinum. All an IBO needs to ask themselves is this…just WHO would turn down a business where a properly structured 4000 pin can take home a mortgage payment? If this business worked like it said it did, then we would be running into these IBO’s fairly regularly at the very least. The money at the larger pins would simply be gravy at this point and you can bet your bottom dollar that people would eventually be breaking down doors to get signed up.

Think of it; just how “fired up” would an IBO be if this was the case in their own business? Even if they weren’t properly structured at the time, they would be able to associate with many who were and then fix their structure issues no? How receptive would people be if they regularly ran into IBO’s even at this “low level” who were legitimately taking home this kind of money? How hard would it be to build the business if people saw this sort of success?

That’s the point, we don’t and IBO’s refuse to recognize why.

Joecool said...

Great comment. Truth be told, if I actually netted $500 a month I may have stayed in Amway. But at 4000 PV, (I had eagle parameters) I was earning about $1000 a month on Amway bonus. But with the standing orders, voicemail, books, local meetings and functions, and a quarterly major function that required air travel (I live in Hawaii and functions are on the mainland), any profit I would have made got spent on these business expenses leaving me at break even or losses when I had to travel.

Anonymous said...

So you're saying that without the tools and the functions, Amway might be a viable business.

Joecool said...

No, the products are way overpriced. You are paying premium prices for generic quality products.

Anonymous said...

As someone who was recruited about 4 weeks ago by WWDB I have attended 3 meetings and a regional event yesterday where Glen Baker and all his down line told their stories on stage. My interest has shifted if I thought the payout was decent Ibwouldnt mind just doing the Amway part to earn a payback by buying for myself, but I am completely turned off by the WWDB pushing CommuniKate, Tools and events to extract an extra $150 a month from each IBO. I can sell the method they teach, I've learned the whole sales pitch in truth is just having all these IBOS jeep WWDB in business, Diamonds get $5-10 per user who sign up for CommuniKate, what a rip for a VM app. Tools generate more money for them, there's no need for this once you learn the model. Go teach people to extreme budget to get out of debt and only buy their consumables through their website.

So Joe, all that being said, you mentioned because of the prices AmWay charges it's still not worth it, even if you cut out WWDB and just go straight AmWay, so is there another MLM company that offers a better compensation structure? I gotta buy this stuff anyways, why not pay myself along the way even if I don't get rich off it. Is there some other company that is more generous with products pricing and bonus payouts or point values?

I'd also like to know your thoughts on WFG TransAmerica as I am looking into that as well. Appreciate all the info you share and post, I think I dodged a bullet with WWDB

Anonymous said...

Once you actually LEARN the system by going to a couple if not more of WWDB events/seminars/ Nuts & Bolts, you CAN make money from Amway. Those tools are just there to keep you motivated but like I said, once you learn the system, you can make money.

Joecool said...

Actually, stats from Amway and the DSA suggest the opposite of what you are claiming.

lost said...

I have a significant other involved with World Wide Dream Builders, WWDB, and soon to be Amway. I am very worried about her and have done an ample amount of research and read a lot of scary stories about how Amway took over their lives and all Sorry for the length:
My girlfriend of two and a half years got involved with WWDB a little over four months ago. She was approached at her place of work by a woman that showed much interest in her and wanted to meet up later that week at Starbucks to talk further. Well, the first couple times they met, they would meet for hours and my girlfriend would be so excited because this woman showed so much interest in her, gave her books to read and reflect on, and gave her hope. A little side note, my girlfriend is in her early twenties, has multiple sources of income, and lives paycheck to paycheck. I would not say she is a weak-minded, naïve, or vulnerable individual. I would say she is someone that jumped on an opportunity that sounded wonderful without doing her research.
Anyways, at the beginning, my gf would meet several times a week with at first called her “mentor” and they would talk about dreams, goal setting, and overall life. When I asked, she was very vague, like it was top secret, which made me wonder at first, but didn’t think anything of it because I was happy she was happy. Well, weeks passed and her mentor introduced her to the others in the group, about 20 or so, and they all met up at a local restaurant. All my gf could say was she has never been around such “fun, open-minded, humble” people all at once, where she felt like she could be herself. At this point, she was involved for about a month, we still had communication, but she would disappear for hours without telling me where she was at or who she was with, would never text me when around them, and would never allow me to go along with her to meet these “amazing people.” I couldn’t understand why I wasn’t able to be around them, she made it sound so positive and fun, who wouldn’t want to go?
Keep in mind, she got involved at the beginning of August this year. After the first month went by with so little information, September 1st hit, and that’s when everything hit the fan. All of a sudden, she was saying we need to take a two week break, with no communication, so she could grow and break the emotional attachment we had together. Upset and confused, I agreed. Prior to these two months, we were inseparable, happy, in love and looking forward to our future. To say she caught me off guard is an understatement. A two-week break turned into her saying we need a month a part with no communication or seeing each other. I agreed and respected her wishes and a month went by and she said she needs two-three months more months of space or until I finish college (which is in 8 Months-August 2017). After some more time passed and I demanded to meet for lunch and stop communicating through the phone, it was like talking to someone I didn’t know. She was laughing off everything I was saying, saying meeting with me was a waste of time, saying we are over and there is no us, saying I’m emotional and to not talk to her until my head is clear? UHM! I am emotional because the love of my life wants nothing to do with me for no apparent reason. The love of my life has no explanation for why she is treating me this way besides “I will do whatever my up lines and mentors tell me to do.”

lost said...


Some things she would say and actions she would do should help paint the picture: She has completely cut off all ties with family, friends, me, or anything that has a tie to her past, also known as “distractions that are hindering her from reaching her goals.” Everything she does and everyone she hangs out with is involved with Amway or WWDB because “she only keeps positive associations and takes advice from people that have made it and that the multimillionaires and her up lines believe in her.” She has blocked my phone number and several family members, making it near impossible to get a hold of her. She says her mentors will not let her “launch her business” until she is financially stable. Her mentors have helped her rearrange her resume and land a new job, which makes a steady amount of income. She says she will be “financially free” by the time she is 25. She is constantly listening to motivational videos and podcasts. She is always listening to people that “have made it” like Greg Duncan. She said she only associates herself with “winners and risk takers.” At one point, her up-line told her that if I was serious about being involved with WWDB, I would quit college, keep in mind I am a semester away from graduation. That is crazy! I told her absolutely not. She is very skeptical about who she spends her time with. She attended FED in Oregon this past October and multiple seminars locally. She goes out all hours of the night to places all around time. She spends a lot of time at bars and night clubs until 4 or 5 a.m., which is unusual. She is always looking up multimillion dollar homes and cars and putting them on her dream board. She skipped her brother’s wedding last month because it was too much of a distraction and she needed to stay in her town. I also heard that they do not support gay relationships, is this true? Considering we are two women in love? My mind is all over the place. There is much more to this, but this should be enough information to get some answers.
At first I did not believe it when people said pyramid scheme, cult, scam or any of those negative slurs because I wanted to believe in her and her success. I tried to support her. It wasn’t until recently I started doing my research and everything started to make sense and realized other people have similar if not the same story. I have read a short few success stories with Amway, but they definitely outweigh the sad stories I have come across. I love this girl with all of my heart, she is the love of my life, and I planned on spending the rest of my life with her. Although I realize there is no convincing her because she is so heavily influenced and involved, does anyone have any advice or anything to add? Is this normal behavior? How long does it usually take people to realize that nothing is worth choosing your family, friends or significant other over? I am a person who values relationships, so I absolutely can’t wrap my head around all this. This has been an emotional roller coaster for me the past couple of months. My heart is broken for her and it is all I can think about. It is near to my heart because I want to see the best in her and for her. I do not want to see her learn the hard way, lose money, or lose confidence or self-esteem. I know this is something she has to figure out on her own because she absolutely doesn’t listen to anyone that isn’t involved or “has made it.” I am close to letting go completely and walking away. But, after all this, if there is any hope that I can make things work with her, I will work it out. I hope whoever else that is going through what I am going through gets the answers they need.

Joecool said...

Thanks for sharing your story and I hope it will help others see thru the scam called WWDB.