Tuesday, January 10, 2017

Are Amway Diamonds "Broke"?

I recently read an article on what constitutes wealth. Some say an annual income of $100,000 would make them wealthy, some say assets exceeding $4 million would do it, and some estimated that $2 million would make them "rich". Of course, everything is relative and someone earning $25,000 a year would think that $100,000 a year is wealth, etc. College students might think $40,000 a year is awesome because many have little money to begin with. I'm sure someone like Bill Gates would not consider $4 million to be astonishing. It's all relative. If you are content with what you have, you are likely relatively well off already.

But let's talk about Amway diamonds. I say diamond because it is basically the pinnacle of success. It is the crowning achievement of the 6-4-2 plan (or other variations) that many groups show. The average diamond earns about $150,000, according to Amway. Now $150,000 sounds like a lot of money to young people or to those with lower wage types of jobs, or those who are just starting out in their careers. But we also know that diamonds earn income from the sale of tools. Some groups advertise (verbally) that someone might earn $100,000 a year from the tools/speaking income.

Let's be generous and say the diamond earns $300,000 a year from Amway and tools income. Income tax and medical insurance for the family will eat up about 40% of that right off the top, leaving about $180,000. Fantastic you might say? Well, a diamond certainly would live in a million dollar mansion, which would give you about a $6000 a month mortgage or $72,000 a year, leaving $108,000. (Although many - a - diamond pays for their homes in cash) Fantastic right? Well, diamonds are constantly traveling to various functions, flying first class and staying only at 5 star hotels right? So an average of 1 trip per month with a family, first class and a 5 star hotel would probably cost about $5000 or more per trip, or about $60,000 a year, now leaving $68,000 for this diamond's yearly budget. A good diamond with a family surely consumes 300 PV per month for household goods, or about $900 a month or about $11,000 a year, leaving $57,000 for the rest of the year. A good diamond is often a Christian who would faithfully tithe 10% of his income, or about $30,000 a year, leaving the diamond with $27,000 a year, or about $2250 a month to pay for their monthly electric and utility bills, gas, car payments, meals and entertainment.

Yes, some expenses may be slightly higher or lower, but what I am trying to illustrate is that even an above average diamond with tools income is more likely to be broke than wealthy if they live the lifestyles porttrayed at functions such as dream night or other major functions. Do the math. It is unlikely that diamonds pay cash for everything and it is unlikely that fabulous lifestyles can be sustained on a diamond income. There is plenty of evidence out there. Diamond's homes foreclosed, diamonds behind on income taxes, a prominent triple diamond in bankruptcy proceeding, many diamonds selling off their homes in a bad real estate market.

I truly believe that it is quite possible for many diamonds to be broke or deeply in debt. My numbers certainly won't apply to all diamonds but it certainly paints a picture that diamonds don't want you to see.


Anonymous said...

The extravagant lifestyle of Diamonds (as shown to those who attend Amway functions) is nothing but glitz and hype. It's not real. It's mere showmanship and fake publicity. Those events are as choreographed and staged as a televised Oscars Night.

The purpose is pure propaganda, to energize and "fire up" the troops. Amway IBOs often report that they are filled with enthusiasm for a month or so after each function. This is what the organizers want.

As for the actual reality of a Diamond's life and finances... it's probably just as ordinary as anybody else's. The telltale sign is that an Amway Diamond NEVER retires. He's always in there recruiting and preaching and drawing the little chalk circles.

If he really were a multimillionaire, he'd be "walking the beaches of the world," as the hackneyed Amway cliche puts it.

Joecool said...

Great comments. Yes, would note that Amway diamonds never "walk away" from Amway to enjoy the beaches of the world. They wok perpetually because without constantly recruiting and selling the hype, their business and income would fall apart quickly.

I believe that most diamonds, aside from the hype of functions, live ordinary middle class lifestyles. You can argue that their "work" is better than a 9-5 job with a boss, but at the same time, a regular job provides some degree of security that the Amway business completely lacks.

If the downline could actually see a diamond's financials, I suspect they would be sorely disappointed at what they see.

Anonymous said...

Did you get fired from Amway? Lol so much hate SMH

Anonymous said...

It wont matter what I say about this article/Blog because the negative mindsets will argue against with illogically bad theory.
However besides those people, anyone else who actually wants to know something objective please read on.
1. I am NOT an Amway Distributor. I am NOT a diamond, emerald or have any other vested interest with Amway.
2. I do my research based on an open mind. I listen to the successful, the not so successful and ask questions of both. In other words I look at it objectively, look at the facts, and I dont just look at a few examples.
3. Now the logic in the blog sounds all very logical and correct except for one floor in the thinking. You make assumptions at every step that compound on each other.
4. Your information is inaccurate to begin with then you add to the error with incorrect assumptions and bad thinking.
5. I am absolutely NOT defending Amway or their distributors, nor am I pro Amway or their distributors. I am purely using research and correct thinking.
6. And this is the most effective point of all. IF what you say is true. IF your entire argument is accurate and a diamond's lifestyle wasnt what they are claiming. Given the amazing business training and people skills they have gained along the way, why wouldnt they go and get a job or start a business earning much more money when many thousands of organisations would hire them in a flash with those attributes.
I know for a fact the figures you talk about are way off
You are clearly incorrect in your information.
You make way too many assumptions.
Your understanding of business is either minimal or you have not accounted for it in your summary
you need to be very careful about some of the statements you make and the way you make them as it travels very close to a law suit. Again dont argue the point, it is expected of you but dont bother as I am not interested in your opinion after what I have read. Any comment you do make with only confirm what I have said about your mindset already.

I am absolutely not paid by or associated with ANY Amway person or entity. I was not asked to do this by anyone associated with Amway or a distributor.
I just dont like it when you could take away an opportunity that someone may have had for themselves but because they read your inaccurate blog they never had that chance.

I am not saying the Amway Business model doesnt have its issues. It does, just not anything to do with the logic you have put forward.

For instance, this business model will absolutely NOT work when attempted by someone with such a negative mindset.
But then again I dont know of anything that would work with thinking like that.

Oh and just in case anyone reads this that is interested in the business.
Do your own research.
Look at it objectively from your point of view.
Ask yourself what choices do you have.
and it is absolutely NOT a pyramid scheme or a cult.

Anonymous said...

I comment as Anonymous purely because I will not waste my time arguing via email or any other means with fools that make comments like this.

ok so you "believe that most diamonds, aside from the hype of functions, live ordinary middle class lifestyles" ?
"If the downline could actually see a diamond's financials, I suspect they would be sorely disappointed at what they see."

First you have NO idea what you are talking about.
I am not "in" Amway, associated with them or a distributor in anyway way not have I any vested interest in saying this other than as an entrepreneur who believes in opportunity. Your comments may take away someone's opportunity of having something for themselves.
Your information is inaccurate.
Your comments are unfounded (fact because you wouldnt make them if you knew the real facts)
Most diamonds and other levels of Amway Distributors dont "walk away" because they have built a business AND a lifestyle they enjoy so why would you walk away from it?
Not to mention the hundreds or thousands of friends you have a relationship with.

So Jo so called Cool
making up stories that arent true are hurtful and most likely will come back to bite you.
I actually feel like starting an Amway Distributorship just to prove you and Anonymous wrong. I would gladly come and show you my financials and even then you would have all sorts of lies and accusations of manipulated books, and ledgers and Im hiding the truth. So you see there is no point in trying.
The one good thing out of this is there is no way a negative sad sack like yourself will ever get involved in an Amway business so they are safe from that point of view and there is no way you will likey succeed in anything else anyway (with that mindset) so I dont have to worry about coming across you in any other capacity.
Any business or opportunity takes two things to succeed - commitment and enthusiasm
but in order to get started you have to also have belief.
I commented on here purely because you and your anonymous brother have tried to take opportunity away from those with both the success attributes.
I said something because I am objective (not involved with Amway) but still have a positive attitude.
Maybe my comments will balance yours so someone gets BOTH points of view and does their own research (like I have).

Joecool said...

You claim that my assessment of diamonds is false is interesting but let's look at the facts that I based that assessment on. Not too long ago, Amway said the average (non Q12) diamond made about $150,000 gross income, before taxes and business expenses. Most of a diamond's income is received in the form of an annual bonus, thus a diamond's income might be $5000 or $6000 a month. With a wife (who doesn't have a job and 1-2 kids, what kind of lifestyle you do think they live on $5K or $6K per month (not counting the annual bonus? Even if you double that income because of the tool scam income, a family where both parents don't work but have a business with expenses and travel costs, will not be living a jetset lifestyle.

They aren't buying mansions and sports cars in cash, nor are they flying first class on fabulous vacations. And I repeat, these estimates with the income disclosed by Amway, do not support a "diamond" lifestyle. The only way a diamond lives a bit more comfortably is with the supplemental income they earn through the tool scam, although the amounts earned from this can vary depending on what system they belong to.

Your claim to not have any vested interest in Amway sounds like BS.

Anonymous said...

Joe, you are right on target. This guy is a lying piece of shit.

If he's "not in Amway," and "not associated in any way with Amway," and he is "not defending Amway," then why the hell is he coming to an anti-Amway blog to put up long, argumentative posts?

He accuses you of not knowing the facts, but he doesn't present a SINGLE FACT OR STATISTIC OR PIECE OF SOLID EVIDENCE to back up his claim. This is typical of the Amway freak -- never answer criticism directly and clearly, but just say that any critique of Amway is not true.

I'm certain that this idiot is in Amway -- otherwise why would he be so angry? Why would he come here and join the discussion? Who comes to a specifically anti-Amway website without having any connection or link to Amway?

The guy is just a bullshitting phony.

Anonymous said...

Just look at the patent absurdities of this Amway defender's postings.

He screams (over and over again!) that he is not involved in Amway at all. But he then says that he hopes others will not be dissuaded from getting involved in the business. Why would he care one way or another?

Then he says that persons in Amway have gained "amazing business training and people skills." Huh? I thought he wasn't involved in Amway. How does he know that Amway people have been trained well?

He claims that what Joe Cool has said is "inaccurate" and "unfounded." But he won't explain why or how -- in fact, he says that he won't even try to answer anything that Joe Cool says. Wow, what a moron -- he thinks the best approach in an argument is to simply deny what the other guy says, without providing any reasons or counter-arguments.

The man is definitely an Amway member or paid operative, sent here to cause trouble. He's lying through his teeth about "not being involved" in the Amway pyramid racket. He's in it up to his eyeballs.

Congratulations, Joe Cool -- your blog is obviously still causing grief and chagrin to the Amway assholes. The tone of that guy's postings proves that he is outraged by what we say here, and is desperate to attack you. To bad he's intellectually incapable of doing so.

mark richardson said...

They are after there time, money.

mark richardson said...

I hope one day they are in God's jail

mark richardson said...

Buddy 99℅ of people in mlm make no $$$$$$$

Anonymous said...

Ha! No vested interest but yet the brainwash is quite obvious. Round 1 goes to Joecool

Anonymous said...

Hey Annonymous - I am not the guy typing that I am not in Amway and defending it by attacking the blogger... (I am however Pro Amway) I just don't like how some of these IBO's address the Blogger or the visitors to the Blog. However I noticed that Joe's Arguments may not be 100% congruent, by that I mean it looks like someone is altering the argument.

I posted a response to Brandon (another IBO with amazing people skills "supposedly") on another BLOG Topic. In that I asked Brandon to stop acting like a jerk and I attached all the Amway Business expenses expected of the downlines in the Diamond Group. I also pointed out that Joe Cool would like to educate potential downlines of any Diamondship to know what he experienced (Remember stories are the best way to teach) to help fight what he believes is his new mission.

Yet in defense of Pro Amway IBO's who are busy scouting negative sites (me included) instead of getting out there and meeting new people, you will notice that the comment I am referring to (came in 2 parts) has been removed from this site.

Looks like all Pro Amway statements with facts will be removed, as they counter Joe's Mission (No Offense intended Joe). With that in mind, this Amway Asshole (aka Me) is going out to find new prospects and not continue a pointless argument.

Joecool said...

Anonymous @ 5:11 PM is lying. I rarely ever remove any comments because I moderate them to begin with. And I will add that I publish all comments, even comments that are insulting to me, as long as there are no threats or racially offensive or completely inappropriate comments. Explain to me why there are comments on my blog personally attacking me while many pro Amway blogs don't accept any comments.

You are lying and I doubt you wil be back to explain.

Anonymous said...

Joe Cool I am sorry that I came back, I guess although I don't like to argue... I also don't like my integrity challenged. So just click on this link to see that I am telling the Truth.
-Robert Faulkner


My Posts in response to Brandon are no longer on your Blog.

Anonymous said...

This guy (Anonymous at 5:11 PM) is very strange. In the five or six years that I have been visiting this site, I have never found that Joe Cool has deleted comments by pro-Amway persons. It's much more effective for the anti-Amway cause to leave them up, in all their ungrammatical stupidity, and to shoot them down with solid counter-arguments.

Also, the guy is completely foggy about why pro-Amway people are coming to this site. Amway up-line forbids visiting the internet, and specifically forbids IBOs from reading anti-Amway websites. So what the hell is going on? If he's "pro-Amway," as he says, why is he here commenting? If he thinks Brandon is such a great IBO, why is he attacking him? What kind of schizophrenia is he suffering from?

I notice that when pro-Amway persons come here to post, their comments fall into one of two categories. The first and bigger category is simple abuse and freaky outrage against Joe Cool and anyone else who questions the wisdom of Amway. The second and smaller category is composed of persons who are trying to pretend that they are "fair" and "open-minded" and "reasonable," and who use this disguise to soft-pedal and tone down any damaging critiques of Amway that appear at this site.

The problem with this second category is that the persons who try it are always forced into self-contradiction and absurdity. The evidence of the basic fraud and unfairness of Amway is just too massive and overwhelming to dismiss. The other thing that they do is pretend that they are "not involved personally in Amway" -- a really stupid lie, since why the bloody hell would they be here at this niche website, arguing for a company that they aren't part of?

Joe Cool, you are having a major effect. The downward spiral of Amway sales in North America is solid proof of that. Keep punching!

Joecool said...

Robert Faulkner, I went back and looked at your link. No comments were deleted and I did not find it in my spam folder. If you feel inclined, you may leave your comments and they will be published. As I said, I don't censor and rarely delete any comments. I even published the ones where my life was threatened. It makes my case more than the pro Amway side to be honest.

Anonymous said...

Robert Faulkner in response to (Anonymous September 1, 2018 at 10:52 AM). I had posted all of my Amway Business Expenses and how much I made in comparison, as I too am a 4000 PV earner. I looked for the original post (It was so large I had to do it in 2 parts) and I was unable to find it… so I figured that the comments must have been removed or deleted. Perhaps they got buried beneath many more comments, who knows? Regardless of the fact, I can’t find those posts anymore.

I can understand your argument, yet it deals with “People”. The typical person doesn’t know how to keep quiet or stick a foot in their own mouth when they get upset about something (especially online because there is no fear of personal injury), then the emotional person (angry, upset, ect.) comments before letting go of those emotions. This is a weapon those people against Network Marketing, because the typical person is irrational and can be bated easily. (I am no exception) See: Joe Cool called me a liar and then said that I most likely wouldn’t be back. (It’s an example of the perfect bait – and I fell for it, obviously). You most likely will use this as a way to point out my stupidity, but I digress.

Not foggy on why People come here… they want to make sure they didn’t make a mistake, so when the business isn’t going the way they want it to they look online for a short cut or someone to relate to their story. Then they find this site and because they aren’t seeing any results they relate to Joe Cool or others online and they quit. (Yeah another Person saved, assuming Joe Cool is Right) Not suffering from schizophrenia – the only thing my upline forbids is crosslining and lying to people. Yes my upline AMO (not Amway the business) recommends that I don’t read anti-amway websites, or spend hours on Facebook because it depresses most people. When we are feeling negative all we want is everyone else to feel as miserable as we do. So instead of making a proper change and working harder we could join a family of people online who didn’t make the business work and can spend our valuable time convincing others that it won’t work either…

and you and Joe Cool could be right...
I don’t know for sure.

What I do know is that I earn money above and beyond my AMO Tool expenses and I have never helped anyone achieve the Fast Track Paycheck program. I respect Brandon because he chose to pursue his dream with a Network Marketing powered business, just as I respect Joe Cool because that person believes they are helping other people, but if you could still read that post you would see that I was calling Brandon out, he was lashing out (which if he was learning people skills from his team shouldn’t have happened). But he was most likely upset by Joe Cools personal experience.

Joecool said...

TBH, I don't alway check my spam folder so it's possible a post went there but I checked for Robert Faulkner's post and it wasn't there.

If you are one who earns more than your tool expenses, congratulations because you are in the top one half of one percent on Amway IBO.s. Amway's disclosures say that "active" Amway IBOs earn an average of about $200 a month. If you take the average of all Amway IBOs, the average income is less that $100 a month. That average includes the crown amasssadors and diamonds but does not count the diamond bonuses and such. Thus factoring in the average income, a diamond making 10k in a month would mean approximately 99 IBOs make nothing to in order to balance out the average.