Sunday, July 6, 2025

The Nuances Of WWDB?

 Looking back at my Amway IBO days, I can now laugh at some of the weird stuff we did and believe it or not, I have reason to believe that my old LOS, WWDB still teaches some of this and some other major groups also teach it. I believe some of these practices were the reason why some people refer to the Amway business as cult or having cultlike qualities. If you recognize some of these practices, you might be in an unethical group, and you should ask your upline the tough questions and possibly reconsider or reprioritize your involvement in the business.

Late meetings. Our upline was into late meetings, many occurring after midnight.  I suppose it was a test of loyalty and dedication to the upline and the system. In reality, it made most people angry at their jobs because they had to wake up early to go to work. For me it made me mad at our upline because the meetings taught us nothing of substance and it just made us tired as is that was part of the plan.  Our upline used to talk about time being important but it was never important enough to make him show up on time for his own late-night meetings. Another cult like factor - sleep deprivation. Our upline described this practice as Amway being a business of inconvenience, designed to weed out the weak and undedicated.  This might have been true, but it really weeded out most reasonable people.

Submission to upline was one of the things we were told. Our group was told that upline would never purposely lead us astray so we should trust them and never try anything without checking upline. Afterall, upline had experience and probably had all the answers. Some of this checking upline included asking permission to get married, buy a car or a home, or even something as small as purchasing a camera. The upline said maybe someone upline might have advice on how to get a good deal on a camera so no harm in checking upline before making a purchase. It is my guess that upline didn't want your disposable income being spent on anything other than standing orders and functions, so they wanted you to check before making any discretionary purchases.

Secrets. Anytime we asked about how much income uplines may have been earning, we were either told it's none of our business or shown a photocopy of a 5-year-old bonus check that someone upline may have received. Our proof that the business worked was upline showing off pictures of sports cars and mansions. Of course, we now find that some WWDB diamonds had homes foreclosed, and one prominent triple diamond had some dealings in bankruptcy court. Looking back, I suspect that many diamonds have mortgages, which would be no problem except that these leaders scoffed at the stupidity of having a loan. That diamonds pay cash for everything, including homes. My former sponsor still lives in a rented home because he won't purchase a home unless he's got the cash. My former sponsor is a physician, so I find his position on buying a home preposterous. His oldest child, a son probably grew up deprived of his parents because of dedication to the system and the functions.  By the way, I should note that I purchased my home in Hawaii in 2001.  My home was purchased for about $300K.  It's now worth about 1.4 million dollars.  Still think it's a bad idea to take out a mortgage?

Losing money is success. Many times, our group was told that losing money was a sign of success. It was success because we were investing in our futures. That the business really is not about money but about friendships. I suppose upline taught this because everyone was losing money, so it was nice to hear that success was around the corner, and that we were all nicer people and on our way to success if we just attended more functions and bought more standing orders. People who sold off some of their personal properties were edified if they did so to attend a function. Obviously, these folks were not advised to run their business within their means. Upline even said that going into debt was okay, but only if the debt was to invest in the business or to buy extra function tickets.

While some of these practices seem bizarre, I believe it is because the upline advice was self-serving and meant to channel their downline's dollars into tool purchases. It is the only conclusion I can make.

Saturday, July 5, 2025

Cutthroat Upline?

 The really insidious part about some of the LOS leaders, such as the ones I had in WWDB, is that they apparently are cutthroat ruthless businessmen with nice suits, and disguised as your mentors and friends. They get you to trust them, and they will tell you that they have your best interest at heart, or that they would never purposely lead you astray. On the surface, you may think this is true, but look at their actions and you can easily discern that some of these uplines are absolutely ruthless businessmen who would take every cent from you if they could. I was in WWDB and I have good reasons to believe that they are still doing this, based on a WWDB IBO blog. On this blog, I see all the same teachings today, that I heard as an IBO and some of the same claims such as buying homes in cash. It's scary.

As an IBO, the diamonds would tell you to never miss a function, ever. The only good reason for missing a function was for your own funeral. I recall some crossline IBOs rearranging pre-planned anniversary parties, weddings, and other special family events in the name of being core and attending all functions. Some IBOs actually did quit their jobs to attend functions, and they very well may have done so because some uplines taught this. IBOs were also encouraged and told to go into debt to attend a function. This was okay because it was an investment into your business.

Our group was also strongly encouraged to buy extra cds every week. To be core, you needed to listen to a cd each day and you cannot listen to the same one each day right? Couples were told to buy their own separate standing orders. Brad Duncan even had a true north tape (cd) that said sponsors were to eat the standing orders for downlines who quit because it was too much trouble to call upline who calls upline who calls upline to cancel a standing order. Oddly enough, they didn't mind upline calling upline calling upline to add a standing order.

In the end, I was lucky enough to have been progressing up the pin ranks so my losses were not that devastating. I ended up losing in my early months of the business but mostly broke even when I was at 4000 PV. Sadly though, my crossline did not fare so well. I know of one couple who declared bankruptcy. I don't know how much their WWDB involvement contributed to bankruptcy, but I am certain it was a major factor and I know of two couples who had homes foreclosed, and I believe that their allegiance to WWDB was a factor in those foreclosures. But I guess hey, two WWDB diamonds had homes foreclosed so maybe they were duplicating?

Do not be fooled. The diamonds may have a nice smile and a nice suit, but they are ruthless businessmen who will take your last dime if you allow them to.

Friday, July 4, 2025

How To Give Bad Advice?

 Based on my personal experience and based on having read numerous accounts from other former IBOs, it's pretty clear that the higher uplines, absolve themselves of issues and problems by having others do their dirty work. While some leaders are bold enough to make dumb statements on stage, many uplines will have their "eagles" or platinums do their dirty work, which is to pass bad and often self-serving advice to their downline. Advice that will help them (upline) to profit directly from the losses suffered by downline.

For example, a diamond may stand on stage and talk about the merits of getting out of debt. Now getting out of debt is a good thing and nobody should get caught up in credit card debt and other piles of debt. But so many times, I sat in meetings where the group was told they needed to be at the next function - no matter what. Do whatever it takes to get there, even if it meant selling personal belongings. Ironically, the solution to getting to the next major function did not involve selling Amway products. So many IBOs made sacrifices of time and money to get to the next function, but their business did not experience any growth in volume or downline. I saw many crossline IBOs attend meeting after meeting and function after function without any downline. They faithfully spent their time and money chasing a dream based on lies by the upline leaders. Our group was told that upline made zero profit on tools. While some groups now admit that profit is made on tools, there is still a lack of transparency about the tools profits and as far as I know, there are no formal written agreements with regards to the tool profits.

I also recall our platinums having platinum and above meetings while we were at major functions and it seemed that the platinums always had something to teach the group that was contrary to what we had just heard on stage and the platinum would tell us that he had the freshest information from the meeting. It's like the platinum was just a henchman for the diamonds and carried out their dirty deeds. Another example is how the diamonds taught vertical alignment where God is first, then your spouse, your kids, your job and in 5th place was your Amway business. But anytime an event such as a friend's wedding or an anniversary dinner or your kid's soccer game conflicted with an Amway event, the group was told "attend all meetings". All means all, is what our group was told. That is directly contrary to the concept of vertical alignment. In fact, the Amway IBOs became less useful to their communities and churches as they are constantly attending meetings and functions and unable to serve in other capacities. I also wondered whether the Amway business and tools consumption took away their ability to tithe and give to the local charities. Our upline would tell us to go diamond and then send in $10,000checks as if that made it okay not to serve others and help the needy.

It is my informed opinion that this still goes on today, despite the claims of Amway apologists that my experience is twelve years old. There is ample evidence suggesting that very little has changed from 20 years ago. In fact, many of the leaders from my IBO days are still teaching unethical things to this day. Many Upline passes bad advice downline, but they do it in sneaky ways such as having their downline leaders pass the information on. This is also how Amway itself can skirt some of their issues, as IBOs are not Amway employees, they are "independent". But most people in North America now know the truth and hopefully this article shines some light on that truth.

Thursday, July 3, 2025

Deception?

 I cannot even count the number of Amway pitches I have seen on the internet. Because many of them sound exactly the same, or at least very similar. You can probably guess that many of these IBO recruiters were taught by the same LOS such as WWDB or BWW. That is one the major problems I see with the Amway opportunity, that large groups of people are being taught lies or unethical methods of running their business or recruiting. Amway defenders like to cite the fact that 10,000 or even 100,000 IBOs is small in the overall world of Amway and Amway has about 3 million IBOs worldwide. What many Amway defenders won't say is that apparently, most LOSs teach the same basic theories; thus IBO abuse is very significant.

I do not believe that a person can build a large Amway business based on honest recruitment and retention methods. In the past and even now, many IBOs do not know much about the tools business and how you actually get a cut. In the past, some groups lied and claimed they made no profits on tools. Some even went so far as to say their tools company was a nonprofit company. Eventually, downline IBOs discovered the real deal about the tools and then uplines started to admit that they profited from tools and started to tell their downline a little about the system. However, these same uplines, many of whom are still active today, have never been held accountable for their past lies and deception. They simply wrote revisionist history where diamonds who got divorced or did something embarrassing were not mentioned or simply disappeared. And IBOs took the bait.

But can you build an Amway business based on pure honesty? I suppose it's possible, but in the US, it would be nearly impossible. Just the mention of the name Amway will turn the stomachs of many potential recruits. It is why some uplines invented the curiosity approach and why some IBOs resort to pure lies to get people to see the plan. Even when I was first prospected over 20 years ago, I was invited to a college "beer bust", only to arrive and see people in suits at a home with the white board. It is why I saw many people walk out of board plans once the name "Amway" was mentioned. It had to be that they were deceived or lied to.

So, if you are an Amway IBO or simply an information seeker, I think this is a very fair and appropriate question. Can you build a sustainable Amway business based on honesty and the truth? What have you seen or experienced thus far? If what I have said is reasonable and true, then is it going to be worth your time and money to build this business? That is something your conscience will have to determine.

Wednesday, July 2, 2025

Losers?

 One of the things that my upline taught, and I believe is still taught today in various groups is that winners join Amway and losers do not. Or that you were a winner because you were doing something to better your financial future and those who didn't were losers. or broke minded. Of course, the upline who said this had no knowledge about those who were not in Amway. Some of them may already have been financially sound or may have been doing something to better their financial future. I'm not sure why these uplines, who promote "positive", had to resort to calling people losers simply because they did not agree that Amway was the greatest thing since sliced bread. It's only positive if it's Amway related and anything non Amway is negative. Anyone see a problem with this?

In many games or sporting events, there will be someone or a team that wins the game and someone or a team that loses the game. Losing a game doesn't make you a loser and certainly, a team that wins the game would not say the losing team were losers. Can you imagine a Superbowl winning team's coach taking the podium after a game and saying his team won because the other team was a bunch or broke minded gutless losers? That would never happen, yet we see that frequently in the Amway/IBO world. The owner of Amway, Rich DeVos had once said in a recorded message that just because people do not agree with you (paraphrased) about Amway, does not make them losers and that IBOs should not call people losers. I believe this has been crafted by upline to apply pressure to downline IBOs to "never quit'.

In all of this, people's jobs are also criticized. That a job stands for "just over broke" or "jackass of the boss" and other insults. Many IBO's goals and dreams consist of ditching their job so they can sleep until "the crack of noon" and live a life of luxury. Ironically, it is most IBO's jobs that continue to produce income so they can pay their bills and feed their family. It is also an IBO's job that funds their Amway and AMO expenses such as product purchases and functions and voicemail, etc. Without having a job, most people could not even join Amway or pay for any tools. Sadly, most IBOs won't make any money in Amway either, and will have to continue to work at their jobs. I do not believe that someone earning an honest living working a job is a loser. Ironically, many of the folks calling people losers and broke are not even netting a profit from their Amway business!

Yes, in this business or the sports world, there will be winners and there will be losers. The question is whether you are the one who is allowed to be the judge of who is and who isn't. I would also suggest that IBOs are completely shutting down potential future business by their behavior. What if I went to a store to purchase something but the item was not available on that particular day, so I don't purchase anything and leave. As I leave, the store owner says I am a loser for not buying something there. Will I go back? Very unlikely. If an IBO truly sees themselves as a store owner, all prospects should be seen as potential business, whether future or present. If your upline tells you that people not interested are losers, you should hand him a mirror. Or inform your upline that when you point a finger at someone, there are even more fingers pointing back at you.

Accountability?

 One of the things that our group was taught while in Amway was that we were supposed to be accountable. Upline stressed this and said we need to be good for our words. Looking back, this was one of the things that really ticks me off the most about my time in Amway. The upline stood on stage telling us to be accountable and to do what we say. These diamonds that stood on stage speaking about accountability were telling bold faced lies to the audience and have never been held accountable for their actions.

These diamonds stood on stage telling the audience that nobody make money from the tools. It was a bold face lie. Eventually the internet exposed this lie and the diamonds pretended it never happened. Now they admit they make "some" money about from tools but they never actually disclose exactly how you qualify and how much you receive once you qualify. In other words a written compensation plan is not readily available. It's more of a wink wink and a handshake. What was insidious about this was these leaders told the downline that the tools were vital to your chance of success and nobody ever succeeded without tools but you can try to be the first. (Does this sound as if tools are promoted as optional as per Amway rules?)

The other thing that most IBOs don't notice is how IBOs who make any progress, even if little, will be touted as products of their foolproof system. Yes, follow the tools and the system and you're assured of success right? But heaven forbid, if you fail (like the vast majority do), it's your own fault. You didn't work hard enough, you didn't try hard enough, you didn't understand what upline was saying. You didn't follow the system exactly right. You only have yourself to blame if you fail Amway. As an aside, I did what my upline asked and I was edified and had the parameters that my upline advised. (I was an eagle) But despite doing the work and driving the miles and achieving what I was told, I made no net profit. I was told that the money would be there if I kept on going. I was already becoming suspicious about the tools scam so when I did the math, I realized that (I was at 4000 PV) going platinum wasn't going to make me much money either for my time and efforts.

You can't make profits if you follow the system (dedicated) because all your profits go right back into the system. You also have to help your downline. So in summing it up, success is credited to the system but failure is the fault of the IBO.s Flip an coin and it's heads I win and tails you lose.

And then if that isn't enough, people who quit are labeled as quitters or broke losers. It's a subtle way of keeping people in the system. Nobody wants to be labeled as a loser right? So you try to press on. You have a fear of being a quitter and you've also been taught that people no in Amway are broke and have little hope for a good financial future. And all the while upline is laughing all the way to the bank. When I finally quit Amway, it felt weird, like I had so much free time on my hands and it seemed like I had extra money because I had no business expenses.

All the while, the same old upline are still teaching some of the same garbage even to today, and have never been held accountable for their lies and bad business advice. I decided to start informative blogging to provide information to information seekers so people can see what to expect from upline. Have I made any difference? I don't know but I'm sure that most people, armed with information, would not choose to get involved in a business where the vast majority fail, despite putting in the time, effort and money to succeed. The upline have never been accountable for their actions. I blog as a way to allow prospects to know what to expect if they're being recruited. My efforts may make littel difference in the big picture but let me close with a story.

A little girl was walking along the beach tossing beached starfish back into the ocean. A man walking on the beach told the little girl that there were thousands of starfish and that she can't possibly save all of them so her efforts were in vain. As the little girl tossed a starfish back into the ocean, she said "it made a difference to that one". That's why Joecool is still blogging today.

Tuesday, July 1, 2025

Better Than Amway?

 One of the silly comments I often receive on this blog is that Joecool should offer suggestions about what might be better than Amway since I make comments against the Amway opportunity. First of all, I would like to make clear that most of my point of contention is against the tools companies and not Amway itself. Having said that, I believe Amway can and should have done more to prevent IBO abuse by upline and tool selling companies. But I believe Amway has not because the uplines are the ones who recruit new IBOs and teach (defacto) 100 PV quotas to new IBOs, thus keeping Amway sales consistent. Uplines also teach product loyalty.

But what can be better than Amway? Well, since most IBOs earn less than $15 a month, there are many things better than Amway. I might add that the $15 I refer to is gross, not net income. Thus, after expenses, the vast majority run their Amway business at a loss. Working part time for minimum wage would be more beneficial to most people who get involved in Amway. Buying and selling items for a profit on Ebay is likely to get you more income than selling Amway products. Heck, a lemonade stand on the roadside is likely to get you more net income than an Amway business. Since most IBOs lose money, staying home and watching TV makes you better off as well.

What makes the Amway business financially dangerous to many, is not Amway and Amway products, but the involvement in Amway training such as voicemail, standing orders, functions and other materials. This training is promoted as the key to Amway success, but as far as I know, there is ZERO unbiased documented evidence that any of this materials work. In my old LOS, Worldwide Dream Builders, or WWDB, the same leaders I saw 12 years ago are still (minus those who left or passed away) there and there are no new diamonds that I know of. I would guess that there were "some" new diamonds, but there are also many diamonds who are no longer in business. Kind of makes me wonder why diamonds would quit or resign from Amway if they could "walk away" and continue to collect "residual income". Perhaps this residual income is a myth perpetuated by your LOS. Afterall, Amway doesn't mention anything about residual income and income from your business would come from Amway.

What is really discouraging is that so many eager and motivated people get caught up thinking their financial dreams and goals will be achieved by their involvement with the Amway opportunity. Sadly, most will end up losing money because of the very training that was supposed to bring them success! Even the fiercest of Amway defenders have no documented proof of success. It appears that Amway success is elusive even to the most dedicated of IBOs.

So, what's better than the Amway opportunity? Seems just about anything. In fact, if you are involved in the training system, donating $100 a month to charity and doing nothing else would make you better off financially than participating in Amway and the related training. Doing nothing would make you better off. Watching football games would also likely make you better off financially than Amway and the training systems. My recommendation (but you must make your own decision) is to simply find part time work and invest your extra income wisely. It isn't quick or flashy, but you are likely to benefit long term. Of course, your mileage may vary. Good luck on whatever you choose to do.

Monday, June 30, 2025

Is Your Upline Rich?

 One of the things so many Amay IBOs and others do is assume that their upline diamond is rich beyond belief. At meetings, the speaker would be introduced as being in the top one tenth of one percent income bracket. While it may or may not be true, nobody ever questioned it, they just assumed it because people saw pictures of mansions and copies of 5-10 year old bonus checks. Even I never went and studied how the diamond bonuses worked. Most people just assumed that the money would be huge at the diamond level. But looking back, I can recall some things that make me believe that the diamonds were cutting corners and needed their platinum's working free in order to maximize profits.

The diamonds in our group often did not stay in hotels when visiting for a board plan, but in the home of another diamond or some lucky downline platinum. The diamonds rarely rented a car. Instead, a downline platinum or higher would be lucky enough to be the unpaid and uncompensated chauffeur for the weekend. The platinums basically were the doormen and ushers at the functions and in many cases, probably didn't even get to hear the speakers since they were busy working. Their reward for their troubles was "spending time" with their uplines.  Imagine that, working for free and being a chauffeur and doorman is an "honor"?

The downline are like unpaid volunteers. For example, ever see diamonds actually renting a moving van and hiring movers? I believe most of them had downline groupies who did the work for free, just for the honor of being near their upline. Just my opinion, but if these folks had mountains of cash, why wouldn't you hire movers so your downline didn't have to use up a valuable Saturday or Sunday to do that work? That's like having all of their stores closed. No products sold, no new recruits prospected. If Ray Kroc moved his residence, would all the nearby McDonald's owners close their stores to help him move?   I used this example since upline often use the McDonald's franchise in their examples of why Amway is a good business to join, even if an Amway business has nothing to do with a McDonald's or a franchise business.

Another things IBOs and prospects should note is that pictures of mansions, sports cars and jet skis doesn't mean someone is wealthy. Someone could have all those things on credit or rented after all.  And many people who truly are wealthy, do not show off their wealth. It is possible that many diamonds live mundane middle-class lifestyles on their income but need to portray wealth to lure in new IBOs. While your upline diamonds may act and look rich, how would you really know? I can take a homeless guy, clean him up and put him in a suit and a sportscar and he would probably look like a diamond.

If your uplines are implying that they are so wealthy, ask them to verify some of the claims. I'm not talking about their personal income, but in business, verifying business income is very common. If you are being invited into the business and a business system such as WWDB, BWW or N21, you have every right to check your upline's credentials. Avoidance of the truth, or an answer such as "none of your business" should be a red flag. It is your business if you are being asked to join and follow upline advice.

Amway Creates The Most Millionaires?

 I hear from some IBOs that they believe that Amway has created more millionaires than any other company in the US. I call BS on that claim. I am not saying that Amway hasn't created any millionaires, obviously, the Amway owners are worth billions of dollars. But what the IBOs are apparently implying is that the diamonds are millionaires. I'm sure there are some diamonds who indeed are millionaires, especially if they are tenured diamonds, in particular the double diamonds and higher. But conversely, I believe that many high-level diamonds are not millionaires. I believe it is just as common for a diamond to be in debt as it is for a diamond to be living large. I also believe that many diamonds did not accumulate their alleged wealth exclusively from Amway.

The reason why this is an issue is because these big pins will stand on stage and show off excessive wealth and imply that it is their Amway income that pays for these mansions, sports cars, and in some cases, jets. In the US, I attended a function called "Dream Nite" where these kinds of trapping are displayed, to the tune of the song "I wanna be rich". The diamonds would say that you can have what they have, if only you will do what they advise. These functions still go on today and I believe it is now called Winter Conference.

Stanley and Danko's book, "The Millionaire Next Door"
http://www.personalfinanceplaybook.com/2009/08/the-millionaire-next-door/

This book makes some very interesting points which I believe applies to Amway diamonds. I will outline the significant ones and I will comment below:

**Predictably, the data shows that most people who you believe to be very rich are not.

**High net worth individuals, statistically, tend to be people that live within their means. They don’t spend a lot of money. They don’t waste money. They tend to be pretty frugal people.

**The authors point out that most of the richest people you know aren’t driving expensive luxury automobiles. That’s what the people who want everyone to think they’re rich drive.

Joe's commentary. The book does say that about 1/3 of millionaires acquired their wealth thru a J-O-B and saved and invested, but did mention that many millionaires were also business owners, such as a pest control company, etc. But based on the points made by the book above, I can see where it is likely that diamonds portray a wealthy lifestyle as a recruitment tactic, when the reality is they may be living very middle class lifestyles off stage, or may even be in debt. I have seen evidence of diamonds having their homes foreclosed and being in debt (Ruth Carter's book: Amway: Behind the Smoke and Mirrors). Recently, there was also a report that Triple Diamond Greg Duncan filed for chapter 7 bankruptcy. The report indicated that he could not make his mortgages, or something to that tune. Odd, because when I was in WWDB, some of the upline leaders said diamonds paid cash for everything because paying interest to the bank wasn't very smart.

My question is why IBOs continue to make up these claims? Try googling millionaire or Amway millionaire. There is nothing to indicate that Amway was responsible for creating the "most millionaires" of any US company. If this were true, wouldn't Amway state it on their website? If someone finds any veracity about this claim, inform me and I will post it.  

I will also add that it's ridiculous to even think this claim is remotely true.  NVDA (Nvidia) is currently the most valuable company in the US sitting at about 3.5 trillion in valuation.  Amway is less than 10 billion if I'm not mistaken.  Does anyone really believe that Amway has created more millionaires than NVDA?  I'm almost certain that a large number of NVDA employees are millionaires or multi millionaires and much greater in number than Amway.  But this also illustrates the lengths upline must go to deceive their downline.  In the end, putting lipstick on a pig is still just a pig with lipstick.

Sunday, June 29, 2025

Whose Success Is Wanted?

 One of the things my upline leaders used to always talk about was how they wanted everyone to succeed. Looking back, I believe they were lying and simply wanted the faithful downline to keep spending money on tools whether they succeeded or not. Now I am not claiming that every single upline leader does this, but primarily the ones who run "systems", such as WWDB, N21, BWW, LTD and some others.  Based on what they say and teach, this is the only plausible conclusion I can make.

When I stopped and really thought about it, pretty much every piece of advice I received, I had to pay for. Voicemails, standing orders, functions, open meetings. I know these are supposedly optional, but in reality, they are a defacto requirement. Anyone with a "dream" is going to buy the tools because the leaders will tell you that you cannot succeed without tools. Ironically, the same leaders will blame individuals and cite personal responsibility for the failure of downline IBOs, even the ones who did everything they were told.

The leaders are edified and touted as having great business and financial acumen, thus not following their advice would seem foolish. Yet Amway defenders will try to claim that IBOs should discern the good and the bad and operate independently. It's a redundancy that many people do not see. Sure, a downline should not jump off a cliff because upline said they would pad their fall with a pile of cash, but many IBOs put in an earnest effort in Amway, only to fail because of the handicaps and reputation issues that Amway has. These IBOs are told they were lazy or quit too soon, or did not try hard enough. Yet the very few who manage to break thru are edified along with the system while ignoring the multitudes who do not make it.

The bottom line for IBOs and prospects to know, is that I believe most IBO leaders do not know you or care about you and your success. They are more interested in selling you websites, voicemail, standing orders and functions. They know that people will come and go, and they are perfectly happy replacing quitters with new people, as long as the system tools keep flowing. I believe some of the US diamonds are now hurting as Amway is apparently shrinking in the US. I read recently of Amway downsizing some of their operations, seemingly confirming that US sales are down. Also to note, Upline leaders would have to share tool profits with new emeralds and diamonds, which is why I believe they do not want new success.

I believe that Amway, other MLM businesses, Kiyosaki, or real estate gurus all have very limited or rare success with their financial systems. Informercials usually have a disclaimer that success is a "UNIQUE" experience. Amway is no different. But I believe in all of these cases, more money is generated in selling the system than by actually running the system. If not, success stories would be rampant, and people would line up to sign up instead of having to be deceived into even hearing the pitch.

Saturday, June 28, 2025

NYC Mayor Part 2

Just a little humorous story to illustrate a point.  Tomorrow I'm back to focusing on Amway AMOs. 


The Tax System Explained…in Beer! Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100. The men decided to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes, which went something like this… 

 The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing The fifth would pay $1 The sixth would pay $3 The seventh would pay $7 The eighth would pay $12 The ninth would pay $18 The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59 The ten men drank in the bar every day and were happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve ball - “Since you are all such good customers,” he said, “I’m going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20″. From $100 to $80. 

 The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes. So, the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men?  How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his fair share? The bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man’s bill by a higher percentage the poorer he was, to follow the principle of the tax system they had been using, and he proceeded to work out the amounts he suggested that each should now pay. 

And so… The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing.   The sixth man now paid $2 instead of $3 The seventh now paid $5 instead of $7 The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (100% savings). (33% savings). (28% savings). (25% savings). (22% savings). (16% savings). Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But, once they left the bar, the men began to compare their savings. “I only got a dollar out of the $20 saving,” declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man, “but he got $10!” “Yeah, that’s right,” exclaimed the fifth man. “I only saved a dollar too. It’s unfair that he gotten ten times more benefit than me!” “That’s true!” shouted the seventh man. “Why should he get $10 back, when I got only $2? The wealthy get all the breaks!” “Wait a minute,” yelled the first four men in unison, “we didn’t get anything at all. This new tax system exploits the poor!” The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up. 

 The next night the tenth man didn’t show up for drinks so the nine sat down and had their beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn’t have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill! And that is how our tax system works. The people who already pay the highest taxes will naturally get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore!

New York Mayor?

 This article isn't so much about the politics of the mayor's race in NY, but I'm fascinated that a sworn socialist was elected in a mostly liberal based city.   I'm from Hawaii, and I consider myself independent even though Hawaii is a deep blue state where democrats enjoy a super majority in the state legislature.  But what I find interesting is I see fatally flawed policy that could be enacted if Zohran Mamdani wins the general election in November.  Of course, fatally flawed is in my opinion, and in some ways, can be compared to the fatally flawed systems that the AMOs push in Amway.  The systems are good for some people, but not the majority.

I'll cover some of the highlights of what I see as flawed policies that seem destined for failure.  First off, it seems that Mamdani ran an exciting campaign but It seems as if a lot of his supporters are young voters who are enamored with universal basic income, which is sounds good, except someone has to pay for it.  Mamdani's plan is to tax the wealthy, but NY already had a big exodus of more affluent citizens due to high taxes, and the plan is to squeeze the wealthy for even more.  Some may stock it out, buy many are already planning to bail to other states that are less (tax) oppressive.

$30 minimum wage.  Sounds great for many people, but many small businesses will fold because they can't sustain a business with high taxation and having to per employees approximately $60K per year to mop floors or do other menial tasks.   Part of Mamdani's plan is to have the city run grocery stores that sell at wholesale, making it cheaper for resident.  The flaw here in my opinion is that government rarely runs things more efficiently than private business, and secondly, how can you make goods cheaper when your labor at the stores will be $30 an hour minimum wage?   I don't even see how fast food or mom and pop restaurants can survive with a profit if they have to pay higher taxes and unsustainable wages.  It is likely to lead to more or complete automation, or business closure.

Replace the police force with social workers.  Last time I checked, the NY city subway wasn't the safest place on the planet and not having deterrents such as police officers are likely to turn the city in a version of the movie "Escape From NY".  How can businesses and citizens prosper when public safety is not secure?  The super rich can live in gated communities with hired security, but average citizens will struggle and as far as I know, cities that defunded the police or became soft on crime, had increases in crime and violent crime, unless perhaps they don't charge offenders with felonies, then pretend that crime is actually down in the city.  And even the average citizen can't defend themselves with arms because Mamdani plans to ban all guns in N.Y.  if elected.

Mamdani is also advocating for free child care, which on the surface sounds great, except that the workers must be paid at least $60K per year which means someone must still pay their salaries even if it's not the recipients of free childcare.

Rent control.  Mr. Mamdani wants to impose rent control and believes that the reason people are leaving NY is because of the cost of housing.  I don't believe that high rent is the main reason people left NY.  I believe it's a combination of high taxation, lack of public safety and apparently much greener pastures in nearby states such as Florida, New Jersey or Tennessee.  I don't recall any city that implemented rent control and had remarkable success.  And again, rent control is almost a form of higher taxation for landlords who are likely to face increased taxation, property taxes and less revenue as a direct result of rent controls.  

There are other highly controversial issues but I'm thinking that if elected, NY and Mr. Mamdani will become a real-life reality show or social experiment.  Socialism in my opinion always appeals to a group of residents that will seemingly benefit initially, but the flaw in all the free stuff is that it's not actually free.  Someone is still paying the bill and those who foot the bill often gets tired of it and exercises their option to move elsewhere. Some of the Wall Street giants are already planning to bail out of NY.   Socialism seems great on paper, but eventually, the government runs out of money to sustain their free programs.  I wish the residents of NYC well, but be careful who you vote for, you may get more than you bargained for.  

    


Friday, June 27, 2025

Who's The Loser?

 One of the things I recall as a "fired up" Amway IBO was thinking how sorry I felt for people who were not Amway IBOs because we were all going to be rich and everyone else was a loser. Our upline used to tell us that we were winners - and if you weren't a winner, then obviously, you are a loser. Many times, the term "broke" was attached to the term loser. That was my mindset back then but having been out of the system more than twenty five years, I can look back and laugh, realizing that the losers were the ones buying stuff they don't need, stalking people at malls and bookstores, and wasting their time and money on tapes (cds), books and functions. We were losing both time and money, which is ironically what we joined to attain more of.

What goes unnoticed in many cases, is how much time and money really goes down the drain for Amway IBOs who work the system. Your life revolves around the business if you are dedicated and hard core. You are always looking for prospects and people to show the plan to, and you have to rearrange your schedules, or outright skip social or family gatherings because of the never-ending number of meetings and functions, many of which teach you nothing about running a profitable Amway business. When I first left the Amway business, I was sort of angry at the time and effort that was wasted, along with the cash I threw down the crapper.  But really there is no recourse because I chose to participate, even if under slightly deceptive circumstances.

But after I did finally cut ties with the business and the people associated with it, I got back into a routine of sorts. I focused on my job and after some years of gaining experience and working my way up the corporate ladder, I received some promotions, and I retired before the age of 55 with a decent retirement income and will likely have my home paid off by then. So, while I did have to work a dreaded job to be able to retire, pretty much all IBOs are also working a job or business PLUS having to expend their time and money to run their Amway business which has little to no chance of providing a long term stable and significant income. And if I may add, it is the systems such as WWDB or N21 that usually end up draining the IBOs of the most money because of things like the functions, voicemail, cds and recruitment meetings.

So I will ask the question. Who's the real loser? The person diligently working and saving for their future or the person chasing a dream that is unlikely to materialize? Factoring in the expenditure of time also makes the systems even more costly than it appears on the surface.  

Thursday, June 26, 2025

Reaping And Sowing?

 One of the things that many prospects and IBOs believe is that they will make an investment of time and money into their Amway business and that they will eventually get their time and money back in such abundance that they can walk off their jobs, and walk the beaches of the world while living in luxury because of lifelong residual income, all because of the Amway opportunity. For IBOs and prospects of Amway, I wonder if any of you can actually name even five people who have actually accomplished this? How about two? Keep in mind that there have probably been tens of millions of people who also wanted this and tried Amway and the systems, only to find that reality paints a different picture.

Many people they will reap what they sow. While that many sound true, I guess the next logical question is what are you sowing? Are you deceptive when prospecting people to see the plan? Are you having to justify high priced Amway product comparisons that are not favorable? Are you actually selling goods to customers and actually qualifying for your Amway bonus or are you self consuming and getting others to do the same? Do you have a negative opinion (broke losers) about people who don't join Amway or are not interested in seeing the plan? Do you now think your boss and your job are evil? Do you leave your kids at home to attend endless numbers of functions and meetings? You reap what you sow correct? The questions is what kinds of seeds are you actually planting?

I wonder what some WWDB diamonds were sowing? At least the ones who had their homes foreclosed, and one in particular was involved in chapter 7 bankruptcy proceedings? Are they reaping what they sowed? What about the WWDB diamonds who got divorced? What were they sowing? Are IBO sure about wanting to make the claim of reaping and sowing? And yes, Joecool the person also has his own flaws, but the difference is that I am not on stage proclaiming to be flawless and many diamonds would imply when they speak (and profit from) their tens of thousands of downlines. I am not earning a living by deceiving people and profiting from people I am supposed to be helping. But your upline diamonds are. Take a close look at the fruit on the WWDB tree.

Straight Answers?

 One of the humorous things about Amway IBOs is their ability to say a whole lot without having any substance. They'll talk about how great the business is and how much they have learned and then when you ask if they made any money, you either get dead silence or you get some answer about how they's seen a copy of a check from someone's upline diamond or something like that. But it's very rare that an IBO will be upfront about their earnings. Of course, I can understand that someone brand new might not have made a whole lot, but I have seen some IBOs outright lie and say they've been in Amway a month and they're making $5000 a month or some other tall tale like.

Even when discussing some Amway released information such as the average earnings of an IBO, you can hear all kinds of excuses provided by Amway IBOs. They will make excuses like most IBOs do nothing. As if that isn't a problem in itself. Or they make stupid analogies about people signing up for a gym membership and then not doing anything. As if owning a business and exercising are the same thing. I even hear questionable claims about how so many people sign up as IBOs to get lower prices. I chuckle when I hear that because Amway's prices in general, are not competitive with big retailers. I believe that is because Amway must add the cost of IBO bonuses in the cost of their goods and services. While an IBO might save from the full retail price of Amway products, you can (in most cases) find the same or a similar product cheaper online or at Walmart.

Another area where IBOs like to divert the discussion is when the discussion is about the success rate of IBOs in general. Based on Amway's own numbers, less than one half of one percent of IBOs reach the level of platinum. Platinum is the level where allegedly, an IBO either breaks even or starts to make some net profit. It would depend on whether the IBO is involved in the tools and to whet level of participation. But IBOs like to downplay this fact as if people simply did not work hard enough or did not learn enough, rather than simply acknowledging that the system itself might be flawed. 

The last area I see issues is when talking about selling products. I suspect that product sales to no IBOs is relatively small. I believe there may be some exceptional people who can sell, but people in general, do not like to or do not possess the skills to sell products. Yet I see IBOs making all kinds of stories about "selling" to customers. I rarely get a straight answer about product sales as well. The fact that many Amway IBOs can't give a straight answer is quite telling.

Wednesday, June 25, 2025

Family Reunion Function?

 Very soon, many IBOs, particularly in WWDB, will be gearing up for a major function called "family reunion". I still recall attending this function as an IBO. It was held in the Rose Garden in Portland Oregon. The Rose garden seats between 15 to 20 thousand people. Although the area behind the stage is closed off, the court area is full of seats so it could possibly hold up to 20,000 IBOs or more. Amway apologists like to denounce the experience of critics, but they conveniently overlook the fact that many critics sat in crowds in tens of thousands of IBOs. My sponsor, in the years before I joined, spoke of an FED function at the (then) Seattle Kingdome where there were about 50,000 IBOs in attendance.

For me, family reunion was the most expensive function I had attended. The ticket itself was $250 and being in Hawaii, a round trip airfare ticket was quite expensive as July is peak travel. We also had to dish out for hotels, rental cars and meals. I believe my total expenditure for this function was more than $1200 when it was said and done. Now I know that not all IBOs live in Hawaii but even if you live in California, you likely had to fly or drive some serious miles to get to this function. I'm not sure where the function is held now as my understanding is that there aren't nearly as many IBOs attending anymore.

The function was about hype and excitement. The speakers told tales of struggles that was overcome by perseverance and the never quit attitude. That you will make it one day if only you will stick it out and never quit. Of course, what goes on unnoticed by many is that in a crowd of 15 to 20 thousand IBOs, only a handful of diamonds can be supported by a group of that size. At the time, I didn't stop to do the math myself or I would have seen through the line that anyone can go diamond.

The Saturday evening portion of the function was about some diamonds flaunting their alleged wealth. We saw displays of jewelry, fabulous vacations, mansions and sports cars. Of course, the diamonds never said they actually owned these goodies. Makes me wonder if some of them rented fancy cars to bring to the function as some of the diamonds probably could not afford it. After the function ended for the night, our upline expected the group to go without sleep trying to "associate" with the diamonds and other pins. We were told that their success would somehow transfer to us if we spent enough time with them.

Of course, everyone went home all fired up but within a week or two, it was business as usual with no noticeable growth in anyone's group.

My question to IBOs or information seekers. Did you get what was sold with these functions? Did your PV go up in a sustainable manner? Did you start getting a flow of new downline? Was the money spent on this function ever made up by increased business? If you cannot answer yes to these questions, then what was the purpose of attending? Looking back, I'd have to say that in a business sense, the function was a waste of time and money, which is ironically what most people join the business for but end up with less of when they get involved.

Amway Psychology?

 The Psychology Behind The Presentation

I’m not sure whether this plan was carefully crafted out or whether it just evolved, but the way some uplines show the plan is cleverly designed to suck people into their systems. If you aren’t aware or careful, it’s easy to get caught up in the excitement of the presentation. The presentation is full of deception, and I will try to point out these items in my analysis.

The speaker may talk about how he once thought he was “doing okay” in life. That he was making a living and able to meet his financial obligations. But he thought there might be more. One day he saw the plan and it changed his life. He did not realize he had gotten into a rut of going to work and going home every day and looking forward to his 2 weeks off each year. (This is relatable for many) That time and money are so important in life. Control of time and money is the key to success. Many people have lots of money but work all day and nite. Or people have time but are broke and can’t do much. The speaker might mention dreams or goals such as having an extra $500 a month or more. What would you do for an extra $500 a month. What about an extra $50,000 a year? Wouldn’t it be nice to have the wife stay home with the kids instead of leaving the family to go to work? Like the “Leave it to Beaver” days? (This gets the women excited)

The speaker will likely mention something about the economy and how prices always go up. The speaker may mention the 4 “I’s” that suck money out of your paycheck. The four I’s are Interest, Income Tax, Insurance and Inflation. The speaker may talk about how the government will take their cut and so on until you get your “net”. The speaker may mention how so many Americans are dead or broke by age 65, and that social security will collapse. (This instills fear in many people).

The speaker might also go on to mention how so many marriages are falling apart in the US because of financial stress. That couples work so hard that they have no family time and it hurts marriages. That people work so many hours these days that they are married to their desks. The “manager” of the office is the first one there and the last one to go home. That despite all of this work and effort, people are falling into debt. Credit cards maxed out, loans, trying to keep up with the Joneses. (Many people can relate to this)

But now, because he was looking for opportunity/open minded one day, he saw an opportunity. This opportunity changed his life and can do the same for you! The speaker now wakes up at the crack of noon. His wife stays home with him and the kids. They take nice vacations and they do what they want when they want. (Of course, who doesn’t? But is this true?) The opportunity takes advantage of the internet and allows you to leverage your time and money so that you can create a residual walk away income. (But nobody walks away do they?)

This is approximately the point in the presentation where they mention “Amway” At this point, the speaker will defend Amway, stating that if you can make money, does it matter.? If you can save money, does it matter? The speaker may go into the product line and mention partner stores and will likely show a 6-4-2 plan or a variation of it. In every case, they will show a best case scenario, not what is likely. Many prospects will leave thinking “all I need is six”. They don’t understand how unlikely it is to sponsor six platinums and there is no mention of the retention rates, the income most IBOs can expect, and firm questions will be deflected to the prospect’s inviter. The speaker may also discourage you from speaking to friends and family as they may have a bad experience but the diamond is successful and knows more about Amway than your family and friends.

Joe’s commentary: So the speaker becomes very relatable from the start. His situation in life will be like many in the audience. He will talk about doing okay,. But wanting more or looking for more. He talks about debts and many in the audience will also relate. They get people to think about dream cars or vacations. He talks about walk away income, but doesn’t mention that very very few ever make significant money and apparently, not many actually walk away either. They say you will make money and save money by doing the business. It’s hard to argue against that,.except most people will not make money or save money. In fact most people, if they participate fully or partially in the training system, they will lose money. For the dedicated IBOs, many of them LOSE LOTS OF MONEY. The plan is crafted out to sound sensible and relatable, but many IBOs will give it a try and shortly after, will realize that the system doesn’t work, that the reputation of Amway IBOs is soiled and sponsoring people or even getting people to see the plan is a barrier that most people simply cannot overcome. At least if you know what’s going on, you may be able to avoid the trap.

Tuesday, June 24, 2025

Amway Saves Marriages?

 http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/will-amway-make-you-annoying/comment-page-12/#comment-92192


■DoAsISay on January 8th, 2012 9:31 pm
I finally decided to search the web after being out of Amway now since February 2011. I was hesitant to do so because I had been told not to so many times by my uplines that there is negative on the internet even about Mother Teresa. That was the “line” that they used to trick me into not doing my research. I am a college graduate with a bachelor's degree in accounting and I was taught to always research a company to learn more about them if you are going to be involved with them. Anyways, I am glad that I did because I now realize that I am not the only one who disagrees with Amway and their approaches to “the business”.

A little more background about my situation which I’m sure is not unique to many others who have been in Amway. My girlfriend and I were introduced to this business by a friend of my girlfriend and her husband. From the presentation that was shown to me I thought that it sounded VERY easy to do. I was told that I only needed 3 friends out of my 200 contacts in my phone to want to save money and make money at the same time. That was the first lie that I later found out. First of all, we didn't save any money. We threw away over $7000 and saw under $300 return. How exactly am I saving money? Secondly, IF, IF you get (trick) 3 friends to signed up, you have a lot more work to do than that. Try 50 people and by the time u get 50 people involved, 48 of those will have quit once they finally realize that you took advantage of them and weren’t straight forward with them.

So, time went on and I hung around and observed the behaviors of people in Amway and how they talked. I said to myself, I want to be nothing like these people. They all sounded the same to me and it was just a little weird. Finally, I realize that they have all been brainwashed how to think, how to spend their money, who they spend their time with, and how they spend their time. Amway with the help of the “EDUCATION” has completely taken control of the lives of many, many naive, weak minded, gullible, ignorant, or too trusting (you fill in the blank) individuals who worship their upline like they are God. Sure I thought it was cool that I knew a millionaire and got to hang out at his house and all, but Im not going to empty my bank account for anyone! How about this line…”You don’t make money FROM your friends when they get involved, Your making money WITH your friends”. WHAT?!? Last time I checked anyone you sponsor in the business, you collect their business volume from the stuff they buy and get a kickback from those purchases. I believe that’s called making money FROM your friends. They have another sneaky tactic that they use to conceal the truth. “You’re not making money from your friends, Amway is paying you for driving volume to their website. Ok, Yeah that’s still making money from your friends. Im not an idiot and your blender of words and phrases don’t have any effect on me.

Back to November 2010, I got married to my girlfriend I was in the business with and shortly after she became an Ambot as I’ve heard people refer to it. In February 2011, i had enough of it and decided to cut my loses and get out. My wife didn’t share the same thoughts and feelings though because she had been soaking in every last drop of the expensive “Education” we were receiving. Up until the point of me getting out of the business since I had known her, we NEVER had an argument. We were inseparable and much in love. That all changed as time progressed. We started disagreeing and this horrible person came out of her as I never seen before. She physically hit me on 3 occasions and we would fight, mostly her, as I like to be calm and collective. I rather reason things out by gathering the facts and explaining my perspective. Her reasoning went out the door with her mind because everything out of her mouth was something about the business.

I spent many nights home alone waiting for her to get back from those stupid waste of time meetings. Eventually in October I had enough. We got in another fight and she asked me to leave, so I did! Now supposedly when a woman says leave, that means don't leave in translation, but I took it at face value and left. We are currently separated and in the process of filing for a dissolution. I never thought Amway could destroy a marriage like that, but I’ve read so many sad stories where has done just that. Like I said, I’m sure my story isn’t a unique one, but I just wanted to share in hopes that I can TRULY HELP people steer clear of this plague. Not only will it empty your bank account, waste time you could be living your life and enjoying the company of family and true friends, it will destroy your relationships with the ones you love. These people that were in our business call themselves Christians, yet they can easily let a marriage be destroyed and not even flinch. Greed and lies are all I see in these people!

I would like to sit my wife down and show her some information so maybe, just maybe she will snap out of it, but I feel like she is so programmed at this point that I won’t be able to get her to read it. If anybody actually reads my entire story (I know its long) and has any advice on getting her out let me know. I got nothing to lose at this point since I’ve pretty much lost the love of my life.

The Iceberg Effect?

 I was in discussion on another forum and a comment was made about Amway being an iceberg, because you see the shiny clean ice on the top, but you do not see the majority of the iceberg. Or in other words, the diamonds show you the fancy suits, jewelry, cars, mansions, jets and what you don't see is the financial carnage that takes place in their downlines at times. My former upline would tell audiences that they could skip meals to buy more standing orders because you might hear the one thing that could make your business explode.  Who would be so ruthless as to suggest that your kids skip a meal so you can buy more tools and function tickets?

Sure, on standing orders, you won't hear too much of the unethical and "wrong" teaching, because some of this is monitored by Amway, but it's the night owls and smaller group meetings where the real teaching is disseminated. This is where you are told to practically sell your soul to achieve in Amway. This is where the teaching comes in where you should be purchasing excessive amounts of tools in order to succeed. This is where you are told to never miss a function unless it's for your own funeral. A newbie or casual observer won't see these things but if you ever commit to becoming a business builder, this is likely to become your world.

You don't see the backstage at functions and meetings. Former rubies and platinums have made commentary about the diamonds literally laughing about how gullible the downline are. You don't see the where the cash collected at the meetings and functions go. There had been some past comments about literally, suitcases of cash leaving the premises. If your upline has a mansion and a fleet of nice cars, it's likely that your tools money played a significant part in your diamond obtaining it.

It's a simple conclusion. The tools have a higher markup than Amway products and have fewer beneficiaries to split up the bonus. A $7.00 Amway product might cost $3.00 or so to make and the rest will be bonus money split up by the layers of IBOs. Whereas a $7.00 cd might take 50 cents to produce and only platinums and higher receive any compensation from this source of income. But rank and file IBOs rarely ever see a true and transparent picture of this business. It is shrouded in secrecy, just like the underside of an iceberg. I challenge IBOs to be real businessmen and women and ask upline the tough questions about where the money is made. Do not accept rhetoric and anecdotal stories. In real business, schedule C business tax returns are the normal way for verification of business income. If you are going to "invest" your hard earned money into the system to the benefit of upline, you should demand this information.

Would any of you purchase a conventional business from someone without proof that it is profitable? Why would an Amway business be any different?

Monday, June 23, 2025

Upline Indoctrination?

 I used to follow the blog of a current fired up WWDB IBO. The things he writes about indicates that the exact same teaching exists, that existed back in the 1990's when I was an IBO. This is despite the fact that Amway implemented an accreditation of the AMOs (tool sellers) and despite claims from Amway and WWDB apologists who claim that things have changed for the better. Below is a list of excerpts from the blog that make it evident to me that WWDB and Amway are basically the same now as they were many years ago.  FYI, this IBO quit some years ago and his blog is now gone, but the things he writes about clearly shows the kinds of thing he's being taught by upline.  It's almost scary to read what he parrots.  


http://expeditionoftruths.com/ (Now defunct)   This IBO named "Shaun" is no longer active but I'm posting this so you can see the level of indoctrination Shaun must have gone through to make this post. which is in quotes;


""On another note, I highly doubt someone like John Maxwell would put his integrity and reputation at risk by associating with World Wide Dreambuilders, you know considering he’s the worlds greatest teacher on Leadership. But what does John know eh?

I look at the motivational and teaching conferences that World Wide Group puts on and I get excited when tickets go on sale. I get excited because I love the association and atmosphere of the whole event.

Either way I see training, conferences, motivation the same if it’s my daytime job, or my part time business. I know I get more value out of WWDB events as they help move our business forward and help motivate us for the next three months. We need motivation, everyone does, so what’s so wrong with that? Many people make some good money with motivational speaking, and I’ll gladly pay for that if it gets me moving.

Looking forward to the future we are pumped to hit Double Eagle Ruby late next year at which time I’ll be stepping away from my job so that I never have to work for another man’s dream and give my 1st best to them. I know that we will work hard at this so that my kids will always have me at home when they need me and not have to wait for me to come home from work. I look forward to the days that we can take our kids out to the ski hill during the weekday and not the weekend when it’s jam packed.

One thing I really love about being on the board or plugging guests into other plans is the atmosphere people have. I absolutely love walking into someone's house where they have a dream board or goals written all over the place. These are people that are moving on. I’ve posted this before where if you want to achieve your dreams and goals then WRITE IT DOWN.

Our free time is slowly dwindling as our employers demand more and more of this time at the least amount they can pay us. It's sad what our society has become.
This is part of the reason why my wife and I build this business. I no longer want to be on call or be tied to my blackberry for work.
We will be attending Moving Up right before Family Reunion which we are pumped for. Moving Up is a leadership incentive for achieving Double Eagle or 7500 PV.

So we will be renting here in Edmonton for the next 2-3 years and then move out to Kelowna where we have been wanting to raise our family. As we move out there we will rent for a few more years, get an idea of where we want to build or buy a place and build it in cash. Mock me, say it won’t happen, say I’m crazy, but I will do it. The more you say I cannot do it, the more it will just fuel my fire to do it. So bring it on

This weekend we started planning for my wife’s freedom day. What is “Freedom Day” ? Freedom Day is the day that she gets the choice of working or not. Sure she could continue to work, have some other man control when she can have lunch, when she has to show up to work, how late to stay… OR, she can choose not go to work anymore and decide to wake up when she wants and pretty much do whatever she wants with her day.

A healthy business always has its ups and downs and World Wide Dream builders is on the rise again. Mark my words there will be people from our area and other areas going into Diamond Qualification. The people on the outside who are no longer building this business have no idea.

I think the biggest thing I took away from last night was to not let anyone steal your dream. What does that mean? Means no matter what kind of dream or goal you have set for your life don’t let someone tell you that you can’t. ‘Can’t’ is a negative/broke person’s word. ‘Can’t’ is for the weak-minded people that just use excuses for their failures and they try to bring you down by telling you that you cannot do something.

Another thing more related to our business is that every business has negative stuff about it, someone is always willing to write something about anything. Check out one of the largest companies in the world, Walmart, and do a quick search on Google about how many law suits they’ve had. All successful companies have this and Amway Global isn’t the first OR the last.

It was due to the fact my attitude and mentality has shifted from being a career focused person to an entrepreneur focused person building a business that will eventually let me walk away from my job so I can focus on other things such as my family and wife.

These guys have stepped away from their full-time jobs because of this business we are in and my wife and I will also be doing the same in a very short time with hard work, determination and persistency and consistency! There is no option of failure and no option of turning back… there is only… FREEDOM!

How many times have you heard someone say “I Love My Job”? Probably a lot. You know what though, this is the biggest lie. Why? Well do you love your job more than spending time with your family? Do you love your job more than spending time with your wife? Do you love your job more than travelling to different places around the world? If you said yes, you need to get your head checked.

Wouldn’t you rather work your tail off for 2-3 years so that you can have the rest of your life to yourself so you do not have to trade time for money? Think about it.""

What Are Your Chances In Amway?

 One thing that many Amway promoters don't like to talk about is what your realistic chances of success are. I will define success as Diamond because that is what the outcome of the 6-4-2 and 2-5 year plan. Of course, you may be able to earn some income at lower levels, but my understanding is that diamond is where the real money from Amway and the tools start rolling in. And I can also understand why people promoting Amway do not discuss your realistic chances of winning. Afterall, lottery promoters do not show you the millions of losers, they only parade the winners in front of you.

Many people, including Amway enthusiasts will agree that many IBO do little or nothing. Some people never even place an order or make any attempt to do any business. For the purpose of this article, I am not speaking about these folks. I am talking about people who actually put in some effort to the business.  However, to not mention that a significant number of people register as IBOs and do nothing would be deceptive in discussing the overall picture of the Amway business world.

For many people who want to make an earnest effort, they will purchase and hopefully sell a few items with the goal of reaching 100 PV. For that effort, you will receive approximately $10 from Amway and whatever profit you might have earned by selling products. Here's the catch. You will likely need to pay website fees in excess of the $10 you earn from Amway. For the more dedicated IBOs, you may be paying for voicemail, standing orders, book of the month, and possibly attending functions. These expenses will exceed your income month after month unless you are able to increase your volume by selling enough products and/or sponsoring downline who buy and sell products.

Because Amway has to include the IBO bonuses in their prices, the products come at a premium price. Thus, sales to non-IBOs are relatively low. Without sales to non-IBOs, the only other way to generate more volume is to sponsor people who will buy and sell products. But due to past unethical IBO behavior, getting people to see the Amway sales and marketing plan may be a challenge. Also, most IBOs are unable to sponsor a single downline.

Some Amway enthusiasts will claim that if you do their CORE steps for 2-5 years consistently, that you are likely to succeed. Sounds easy, but because of the factors I have identified, some of these steps are impossible to do consistently. It's not like walking a mile each day where you have control of the steps. People will likely fail in showing the plan and sponsoring others because they cannot find enough people who are willing to see an Amway plan. Many, possibly most other IBOs can and will do certain steps consistently such as listening to a CD daily and reading a success book. But because of a spotty reputation in the US, IBOs will very likely fail to be able to show enough plans to succeed.

Your realistic chance of success? My informed guess is far less than 1 tenth of 1 percent. That's the likelihood of going diamond. Your chance of going platinum? My informed guess will be less than 1/4 of 1 percent. If you think you can beat those odds, go for it. For most people, it might be wise to look into other opportunities.

Sunday, June 22, 2025

Bait And Switch?

 I believe Amway is used as a bait and switch scam by the diamonds and other higher up pins. They show off luxurious lifestyles, mansions, sports cars, jet skis and other displays of wealth. Most of us familiar with the pitch have heard the lines before. 2-5 years, part time effort, built it right, build it once. Do what we did, and you can have what we have (quotes from a diamond). Early retirement, making major purchases in cash, financial freedom. I mean, who wouldn't want that? Apparently, many do and are willing to give Amway a shot, even if they think their chances might not be good. I believe the same reasoning goes into increased purchases right before the Powerball lottery numbers are released.

But the insidious part of the Amway business is that the diamonds lure people into the business under the pretenses that "anyone can succeed" or that everyone can succeed, but only if you follow their foolproof "system" consisting of cds, voicemail, books, seminars and what some call "the core steps". What is really disgusting about this entire process is that so many good and talented people have come and gone through the system, only to fail, despite doing what they were advised or told to do by upline. My former sponsor for example, sponsored over 100 people and was uber hard core for many years. He peaked at platinum (non Q12) and fell back and has never reached that level again. It definitely was not due to a lack of effort or not doing things right.

My sponsor was not alone. I did what was advised and went up to 4000 PV, only to find that there was no net profit. I wised up and got out of the business shortly after that. The truly sad thing is that many people hang onto Amway because they feel like failures if they leave or that they have no other hope of financial success without Amway. This is also a byproduct of upline teaching that most of us have no chance to be financially successful without Amway. Ironically, the vast majority of people would be no worse for wear or better off without any brush with Amway. Most people snap out of it quickly, but some people bite hard like my former sponsor, who is still toiling away after more than 25+ years. What's worse is my sponsor was/is a physician, and he is probably farther away from financial freedom than most people is a similar occupation.

So, in summarizing the scam, the diamonds lure people into Amway with great displays of luxury and wealth. They say that anyone and everyone can possibly achieve the same by following their system and by participating in their tools system (cds, books, seminars). What ticks me off is that these hucksters claim all the credit for any tiny amounts of success, but blame anything less than success on the individual. They'll call it personal responsibility. These diamonds are liars and cheats. They have never been held accountable for the failures of even the most earnest of IBOs who followed their system. The excuse being that the IBO did not work hard enough or they didn't do thing exactly right. That is total BS.

The vast majority of people fail in Amway because Amway is designed that way. Their common 6-4-2 plan consists of 79 IBOs. One is a platinum and the rest are not. When you consider that these 79 IBOs are all active and receiving bonuses, this is not a realistic group. A more realistic group will be 200 or more downline IBOs. Many doing little or nothing and the rest scraping up enough PV to make someone a platinum. Thus, one of two hundred is one half of one percent. That's about the going average of success for someone reaching platinum, and this was confirmed on Amway.com. Imagine the rate of success for diamond? It's a tiny fraction of one percent. And that's just to reach diamond, not to maintain it.

Come join Amway and get rich. That's the pitch. The reality is the diamonds and above are getting rich selling their downline training on how to success in Amway. A classic bait and switch scam. The tools business is the "real" business with higher profit margins than Amway products and less people sharing in the profits. Amway is just the front for the tools business to exist. I believe this post clearly explains how Amway is used as a bait and switch scam. Beware!

The Catch?

 In the Amway business, most active IBOs are advised to trust upline. To think of upline as a coach or a mentor. These upline mentors or coaches are supposed to have your best interest at heart and they will guide you to success if only you will be open to learning. Many uplines, including my former uplines used to coin the term "copy" or duplicate. If you can do that you will be successful. Even the simplest of people can copy. The upline may crack a joke about getting thru school by copying. Thus, many IBOs follow exactly what their upline advises them to do.

But then uplines turn the responsibility away from themselves. Many Amway defenders will also claim that downline should not simply follow the advice of upline. They may make a ridiculous claim that standing orders and functions contain advice that must be discerned. That information is like a buffet. You pick and choose what you need and discard the rest. If you are a new IBO or prospect, let me tell you that is a load of guano (bird crap) that is being heaped on you. Your upline is touted as having experience and wisdom in the Amway business, which is why you are paying good money for voicemail, books, cds/audio files, and functions. So why would their advice be something you pick and choose? How would a new IBO know what to pick and choose?  If they really believe this, then the massive failure rate of IBOs is more understandable, based on this kind of teaching.

Imagine hiring a professional guide for a trek in the wilderness. The guide is supposed to be an experienced outdoorsman, perhaps an expert. So, if he recommends that you eat certain plants or fruits, you trust that he is going to guide you right. Imagine eating something that made you sick to your stomach, only to have the guide tell you that he just points out plants and fruits and you have to discern which is good for you and which is not. You would fire the guide and tell everyone you know not to use that guide anymore.  But this is what upline does and somehow mostly goes unnoticed by IBOs and prospects.

But here we have these "systems" such as Network 21, WWDB or BWW that have been "guiding" IBOs for up to 20 years or more in some cases, and the number of diamonds are negligible. Sure, there might be new platinums, but many tool consuming platinums have been found to be losing money or making very little money for their efforts. What's more, it would appear that Amway is losing ground in sales. Amway's sales dropped from 11.8 billion in 2013 down to 8.6 billion in 2017. One can reasonably guess that any new platinums that break are simply replacing the volume for a platinum that no longer exists or a platinum that no longer qualifies. My former upline diamond appears to have all new qualifying platinums from the time I was in the business and here's the kicker. My former diamond had 6 downline rubies. As far as I know, none of these rubies are qualified as platinum anymore, much even in the business.

Uplines also program their downline to take responsibility for the failure. Thus, you have IBOs who did everything that was asked of them, only to fail. Yet these IBOs often blame themselves for their failure. It is my opinion that former IBOs who did everything asked of them only to fail should file a formal complaint against their LOS with the better business bureau. Amway defenders like to think that a lack of formal complaints means that the system works when clearly, there is no unbiased substantial evidence to suggest that the system works. It looks like some succeed in spite of the system, not because of.

The catch in all this is uplines skirting responsibility for the outcomes of those they "mentor" and profit from. IBOs should ask if upline really cared about their success, why do you have to pay for any help that you receive from your upline diamond?

Saturday, June 21, 2025

A Failing Business?

 After years of studying Amway and blogging, I've noticed something taught by IBO leaders that simply do not make any sense. It doesn't make sense business wise, and it just doesn't add up. I know that sometimes, you need to think outside of the box and go against the grain to succeed, but some of the IBO practices are simply insane and it's no wonder that so many IBOs fail in their pursuit of their Amway "dream".  They think upline is guiding them to success but in reality, upline is guiding them to buy more tools and functions and to never quit.  In other words, the diamonds teach IBOs to transfer resources to them giving the diamonds financial security.

Most IBOs never sponsor a single downline and relatively few products, as far as I know, are sold to non-IBOs. These are the reasons why most IBOs do not turn a profit but for some reason, many IBOs still seem to think that training materials are worth the money they pay for them.  Training materials are mostly redundant and motivational in nature, rather than offering serious and successful techniques to help someone succeed in Amway.

Buy from yourself. A fairly common practice. It is okay to support your business, but if you are the primary or only customer, you won't make money. Any profit you might turn is coming out of your own pockets. I don't know of any successful stores where the primary customers are the owner and the store employees. Yet some IBOs think this is how they will succeed.  It's silly but it is what some upline teach.

Sponsor others. So, you are struggling as an IBO. But the key to success is to try to open other stores by sponsoring. As a famous Amway apologist likes to claim, you do not get paid for sponsoring others. So why is this the emphasis for so many IBOs? Why would you think that opening more stores will make you successful? Yes, it is a way to possibly generate more volume, but your "success" will only come by having a bunch of struggling businesses under you. Is that how you wish to succeed? Also, the quest to sponsor others is probably how Amway got a bad reputation when IBOs tricked people into attending recruitment meetings and/or being deceptive when inviting someone to see the plan.

Folks, you need customers to succeed. I live in Hawaii and when tourism is slow, our local economy suffers. It's a very similar concept to your Amway business. Without customers circulating money through your business, you will eventually go out of business.

Dreams?

 One of the things that Amway leaders use to attract new IBOs is to talk about the dreams that these folks have. They may talk about how having a job will wear you out and dreams that you once had as a child or young adult gets suppressed and/or completely forgotten. They try to revive some of these dreams in the hopes that they can convince prospects that Amway is the only way, or the easiest or best way to accomplish these dreams. They also try to instill the notion that people can choose to succeed in Amway. Being that success in Amway has so many variables out of the direct control of an IBO, nobody can simply choose to make it big in Amway any more than they can choose to win the lottery. And by the way, the chances of going diamond and maintaining it is about as remote as winning a lottery.

What is somewhat cruel is reviving dreams that for many, will never come to fruition, no matter how much work is done, and no matter how many tools are consumed. There are many instances where no matter how big the dream, it will never come to pass because of physical and financial limitations. For example, as a child, many of us had dreams of playing professional football, hockey or basketball, and living in the glory of winning. However, no matter how many hours you put in and no matter how hard you work, the vast majority of people will never be pro athletes. And even out of the ones who become pro athletes, very few are considered "elite".

Yet the Amway promoters will have people believe that just buying a few products and selling a few products and 2-5 years of "hard" work, people will join the financially elite in the world. As if home care and beauty and nutritional products moved from person to person is going to make you achieve your dreams. That you will quit your jobs and walk the beaches of the world while the cash rolls in by the barrel full. Sadly, many young people become attracted to a proposition that allows them a shortcut to retirement instead of working until age 62 or whatever the standard retirement age is. They are basically promoting false hopes and promises to the vast majority of people who get involved. I believe those who are deemed as "dream stealers" might be doing their family and friends a favor by stealing their dream, which will not come to pass anyway.

With about 1 out of 240 IBOs reaching platinum (the alleged break even point) and about 1 in 20,000 IBOs reaching diamond, the dream is a stretch indeed. Even for the select few who can overcome major challenges and hurdles, maintaining their status often becomes impossible and not worthwhile (many diamonds have quit).
Also, if you do make it, you will leave behind a trail of people who could not or did not come close to that level of success. It means that in many cases, your success will come at the expense of those you sponsor. It is why many claim that Amway is a legal pyramid.

Having dreams and goals is a good thing. But do you want to accomplish your ultimate dream by hurting (financially) those who trusted you and agreed to be your downline? Is it your dream to go diamond and have 500 to 1000 or more downline IBOs losing money? Is it your dream to be wealthy by exploiting people who trust you and believe that they can achieve the same level of success, when the opposite is true?

What is your dream? Are you willing to hurt others to achieve it? Your answer to this will say a lot.

Friday, June 20, 2025

IBO Or Customer?

 I've been debating with others about the concept of customers. Amway's defenders argue that IBOs are customers and holds the position that there are a lot of people who register with Amway simply to be customers. Now I don't know how anyone can possibly make that determination, but regardless of whether it's true or not, these folks are still considered IBOs. I don't want to debate the legal ramifications about the 1979 FTC ruling and the 70& rule, although the spirit of the rule was to prevent IBOs from buying their bonus. in the 2016 FTC ruling against Herbalife, the FTC said sales to distributors do not count as retail sales and required Herbalife to changes their operations because of this rule.

Amway apologists apparently contends that IBOs who purchase and then resell to downline are meeting the sales requirements and the downline are customers. Okay, let's go with that. But wait, IBOs do not buy and then resell to their downline. IBOs order directly from Amway do they not? If IBOs order directly from Amway, their upline gets some volume credit for downline purchases but the upline doesn't buy and then resell anything to downline. So, are IBOs actually making any sales to non IBOs, save for sympathetic friends and family?

If in fact, IBOs are not selling their goods, and are primarily self consuming them, it means that most of the upline bonus is basically generated from the pockets of the downline. I believe the tools business is a product pyramid as only IBOs are buying standing orders and attending functions. The lack of selling Amway products to the public would put the Amway business opportunity in pretty much the same category. I wonder what the FTC would rule today if that were the case? I wonder what the FTC would rule on the tools systems as it is today?

Something to think seriously about. If you are an Amway business owner, and you are selling little or nothing, where do you think your bonus comes from? It either comes from your own pockets, or it comes from taking advantage of your downline, who then pony up a portion of your bonus from their pockets. In a system such as this, the only way to maximize your bonus is to recruit as many downline as possible. Because the more people you can leverage, the more bonus you can get. The problem with this system is that people realize they aren't making money, and that paying in some cases, ridiculous high prices for "prestigious" soap and vitamins is not worth it, and they quit. When these folks lose their Amway dream of mansions and jets, they somehow lose their desire to keep making purchases.

If former IBOs kept on buying Amway goods, then Amway sales would climb pretty much every year as the former IBO's purchases coupled with current IBO purchases should keep going up, not down. But that's not really the case is it? In what business can the employees or company owners be the primary customers and prosper. The answer is none and Amway is not an exception.

My Job Is A Pyramid?

 One of the funny things I take issue with is how Amway uplines will create an us versus them mentality in the business. Thus, friends and family who care about you suddenly become "negative" and association with them should be limited or eliminated.  In some cases, people are discouraged from excellence in their jobs or professions because it takes the focus off of their Amway business. What I was told was to do my job, but my radar should always be on for new prospects. Some cross line IBOs turned down promotions at work because they did not want to have to work longer hours or take the focus off of their Amway businesses.

In some cases, the speaker at open meetings or functions will put down people's jobs. A commonly used acronym was J-O-B = "Just Over Broke". Some leaders also would say that my job was a pyramid because you will never earn more than the boss. A completely ridiculous comparison because someone's job has no relationship with how people view the Amway business (i.e. an Amway pyramid) and in a job, every employee gets paid and has a net gain at the end of the month. Not true in Amway. If IBOs only use voicemail for example, an IBO at 100 PV or less will already be at a loss, and that is not considering any other expenses that IBO may have. And while a job may have a corporate hierarchy, or chain of command, the business owner and CEO or manager earns their salary from customers, not directly from the pockets of their employees.

Some uplines will laugh about people's jobs, stating that they wake up at the "crack of noon". What these same uplines may not tell you is that they wake up at noon because they are up at 3:00 in the morning doing night owls for their groups and looking for recruits. These same uplines possibly can't do much with their downlines during the weekdays since their downlines mostly tend to have 9-5 jobs. So a diamond's job is basically working the night shift and weekends.

So, if you are of the opinion that nobody should criticize the Amway opportunity or IBO behavior, maybe uplines and IBOs should not criticize family and friends who disagree with or are not interested in the opportunity, and maybe the same uplines and IBOs should not criticize people who choose to work jobs. Don't most IBOs rely on their jobs as their Amway income is not sufficient to even pay for their Amway business related expenses?

Thursday, June 19, 2025

Amway The Negative Sum Game?

 In my informed opinion, the Amway opportunity as taught and run by the AMOs such as WWDB or Network 21 is a negative sum game.  In other words, the IBOs have X amount of dollars but the system's expenses such as standing orders, function tickets and other training related expenses eat up the resources of the IBOs and it's a a constant and massive drain of the IBO's resources.  This is in contrast to a perhaps poker game where maybe 7 players each bring $100 to the game.  At the end of the day, there might be several winners and losers but when the game ends, $700 still sits in the hands of the players, even if some of them might not have their original stake of $100.

In the IBO world of the AMOs, "serious" IBOs are expected to consume or possibly sell some products but generally, this process reduces the pool of resources that IBOs may possess, but because they receive goods for it, I don't view this aspect of the business as a negative sum game, although there could be debate as to whether these generic in nature products are worth the "premium" price that is often charged.

Now when you get into the tools and functions, this is where the IBO's resources are systematically drained with little to no tangible results.  Those who participate have their resources drained week after week, month after month and year after year if they "don't quit" which is what upline teaches.  In my previous example, a group of poker players might start out with $100 each, and a group of 7 players would have $700 and at the end of the game, they collectively leave with $700, which is a zero sum game.

In contrast, let's say a group of 7 IBOs all start the month with $500.  It they all consume/sell their defacto 100 PV quota, they likely have approximately $250 left after consuming 100 PV's worth of products.  Now, if these IBOs are dedicated to CORE, which is the teaching system these uplines use, then IBOs will spend money on standing order, books, audios, function tickets, meeting tickets, gas money, and possible voicemail.  At the end of the month, these same IBOs have likely zero dollars left.  Amway profits from the sale of products and the uplines profit from the sale of tools and function.  A zero sum game because at the end of the month, IBOs all have less money than they started with even if you disregard the expenses of moving/consuming 100 PV or more.  

Yes, there are times some exceptional IBOs might sponsor and grow their group enough to scrape out a net profit, but if you factor in the business expenses of their downline, then you once again have a net loss.  You could almost compare the AMOs to a casino and IBOs as gamblers.  There are occasional winners, some might even be big winners, but in the end, the house always wins.  In this case, it's the AMOs who win because they profit handsomely despite the fact that their system is so ineffective that the outcomes (IBO's success) seems more coincidental than anything.  Sort of like seeing those infomercials on money making systems where they trot out someone who might have experienced some degree of success, and you'll see a tiny caption on the bottom of your TV screen that says "unique experience, your experience may vary".

And for these reasons, Amway's motivational groups such as WWDB, BWW or Network 21 are running negative sum games where it is inevitable that the upline diamonds always win and the downline loses because the tools and functions expenses heaped upon IBOs systematically drains their resources week after week and month after month.  The lottery is a negative sum game as well, but the sad this about all this is that any significant success in Amway is similar to the odds of a lottery despite the fact that Amway the opportunity is supposed to be a legitimate business opportunity rather than a game of chance.