Tuesday, January 26, 2016

Achieving Dreams Without Amway?

One of the things that many IBOs are badly misguided on is the concept of dreams and fighting for dreams. A dream is basically a long term goal. Someone might dream about playing in the National Football League. To accomplish that dream, one might play high school and/or college level football. For most, the dream will end unsuccessfully. No matter how much someone wants to play in the NFL, only so many people are proficient enough to be able to make the team. Even fewer are elite players that become stars. So while you might fight for your dreams, there is also an alternate reality.

In the Amway business, via the "systems" such as WWDB or Network 21, the leaders will often sell hopes and dreams to the downline. That the downline can be retired at the age of 29, walking the beaches of the world while the income just rolls in forever and ever. These kinds of "dreams" would be the same as hoping to win the powerball lottery. You may have seen a few who did it but the chance of you duplicating it is very unlikely. Slim to none is your chance in reality.

Another things uplines will often do is tell anecdotal stories about crabs keeping each other in a bucket when one tries to escape, or about monkeys preventing each other from grabbing bananas at the top of the pole. While the stories may be interesting and even true, it doesn't necessarily apply to the Amway business. While it is true that an IBO may have friends and family who are skeptical about Amway, it is with good reason. Many people have gone through the Amway business with no success. Many people have lost money doing everyting they were advised to do by upline. There is a track record of financial disasters associated with Amway and the attached "systems". It's not like there's a long list of people who have walked away from Amway with the cash rolling in and not a care in the world. Ever wonder why none of the crown ambassadors have exercised the option to "walk away"?

I think people should have dreams. I think people should pursue their dreams. I also think people need to know that certain dreams can come true. There also needs to be a degree of reality in their dreams. There will always be some inspirational person such as a "Rudy" who overcame great odds to accomplish a dream, but the untold reality is that there were probably many many young men who dreamed of playing for Notre Dame that year. Likely, no one else accomplished the unlikely dream like a Rudy. What I am saying is that earning a nice income and having the option of early retirement can be acomplished in many ways. You might be choosing to use Amway to accomplish your financial dreams and that is your right. But the reality is that very few people have made all their financial dreams come true due to the Amway opportunity, as compared to the tens of millions who have tried.

I would opine that saving money and investing it while you are young is a great way to get started in life. Luckily for me, I was given that advice when I just gout out of college and I started a 401K at the age of 22 when I started working full time. I had a second job at the time so that second income went into my 401K and now many years later, I have a small fortune saved up and along with some other sources of income that I developed, I'm looking at retiring early and being able to enjoy a nice retirement. And guess what? These dreams were accomplished without Amway, although the Amway opportunity wasted some of my time and money along the way (I was an IBO in the late 1990's).

Keep fighting for your dreams, but keep in mind that you might need a plan B and a dose of reality.

47 comments:

Anonymous said...

Everything in Amway is based on mindless enthusiasm and hype. But the sad fact is that the vast majority of Americans are trained from childhood to be suckers for mindless enthusiasm and hype. The country is too goddamned optimistic and Smiley-Face about everything!

Amway counts on that national failing.

Joecool said...

People see the "alleged" wealth and trappings and ge sucked into the hype.

Joecool said...

When you can see Amway without rose colored glasses, you can understand the psychology behind their teachings.

The upline gets the audience to make small and simple agreements such as taxes are too high and working 30 to 40 years before retirement is bad. Getting "easy" money and having financial freedom is good and for the average Joe, Amway might be their best and only opportunity to create wealth.

Then they show you sports cars or mansions so you can almost taste the success yourself.

Then they turn around and sell you tools and functions and claim you cannot succeed without them. And therein lies the scam.

jeremy young said...

I appreciate your opinion but it's just opinion if you would of stayed with it just think of what you would have became by now it's just a supplement of income that's not a get rich quick scheme and if you were on my team we could of rises quickly tithe top as I am on a team that has broke 17 diamonds which are rare 17 out of 60,000 ibo which are not great odds but are truly reachable with the correct mentor ship we never share the silly stories you faced and we only show I how to share this if you were trying toget there by volume of sales you went at it all wrong a sturdy a solid foundation of going deep and wide will only allow you to get there and stay there as it will be ongoing misconception of ongoing is just the way a person sees it not being fully educated in the buisness it's a shame you was 4000pv in the 90's you would have been very successful today and that small fortune you have saved would of been a big fortune saved but the ambition wasn't there and dedication and I hate to use the words a quitter never wins but when it fits wear it I've been told my whole life best of luck to you and your small fortune while I will be enjoying my retirement at the age of 40 not 65 and 3/4 the way dead best wishes to you all

Joecool said...

Jeremy, you sound misguided. 17 diamonds out of 60,000 IBOs is not good. Factor in that people are quitting daily so that 60,000 is actually a lot more people.

I had a 4000 PV business but I made no net profit so staying in the business would have just wasted my time and money. I would not have been successful by staying in the business that was not profitable.

Conversely, my quitting Amway and investing the money I was wasting on Amway, I have a sizable 401K and with other revenue streams, will be retiring at the age of 55.

Also, I've been involved with discussion about Amway since 2004 and have been running this blog since 2009. A lot of people like you have come here making claims be being free and retiring early. Not a single one of them have ever returned here to show me that they made it big in Amway and that they are now financially free. And there's a reason for that.

By this time next year, you will probably have quit Amway. Of course I welcome the opportunity for you to prove me wrong......... But you won't

Anonymous said...

Working with Amway you are also empowering others to achieve their dreams & goals... That's what makes the opportunity unique .. The Network Effect(Win-Win)..."People Helping People Help Themselves".
Anyway, if someone has guided you right, no one forces you to quit your job or don't go for your life dreams & goals other than building your business.

Joecool said...

Is it people's dreams and goals to lose time and money? Because that's what the vast majority of Amway IBOs end up with during their time in Amway.

Anonymous said...

It's like saying that "building friendship" was the reason of joining the "business" when in fact, profit is the main reason of the business. This is to keep IBOs motivated than ever to hide the fact that IBOs are losing money day by day.

Joecool said...

Our group was told that the business wasn't about money but about friends. I remember wondering WTH? I joined to make money.

Anonymous said...

Please note the very damning admission that Jeremy Young makes. Although his post is not particularly clear or grammatical, he manages to say "if you were trying to get there by volume of sales you went at it all wrong."

Bingo!

This Amway defender PUBLICLY ADMITS that retail sales of his product are NOT the source of a successful Amway business. Well then, what is?

Jeremy refers to "depth." That means the recruitment of more IBOs in his down-line to pay him for tools and other useless junk. It means forcing his IBOs in down-line to purchase crap like CommuniKate and Ditto and Standing Order and tickets to dumb "functions." It means compelling them to fill their garages and cellars with stuff just to pump up their monthly PV. That's how Jeremy plans to get rich and retire early.

As for Amway products, well... they are just a cover for this racket he runs. Jeremy admits it.

Anonymous said...

It's a sure sign of a religious cult when its promoters try to cover up your financial losses by telling you that you're in the cult for "something higher."

That's why Amway has latched on to this idiotic mantra that the business is about "building friendship."

What a load of horseshit. If you don't make a profit in a business, you're out of business. Period.

Anonymous said...

Money is by-product of empowering & serving people..
Like right now the distributor from where you get the product or service keeps the profit for providing you the same...
Again what was told is each individual "I" way of building their biz..
Every biz is more than making money otherwise Mr.Bezos would not have started his own when Mr.Walton was offering similar product..
Hope one day each "I" can understand and realize the potential they have in them and empower others to realize the same.

Anonymous said...

Business ownership is about mindset...the steps are geared towards providing that as most folks are "programmed" towards employee mindset (might be surprised by Biz owners--Recommended Read--The Second Chance)..
Reading a textbook in school/college.. Who made $$?, listening to professors who made $$$?... And bottom line they are approved BSM (Business Support Materials)and are not mandatory if you can build your team on your own and keep them focussed..
Let me give you point to ponder-- Who is Stopping you from Becoming Upline from IBO...Only the "I" aka the first circle and same for anyone.

Joecool said...

When you take a college class, you might buy a book or two written by the professor. But that book took research and work, and likely had peer reviews.

You aren't paying for voicemail, cds, and functions to attend college. And when you're done, you have a marketable skill or knowledge so you can seek employment.

Your upline gets a percentage of your sales as long as you move product, all because they signed up in Amway before you. That is a scam.

Anonymous said...

Professors spent years of experience and research before they teach their knowledge to future students.

Uplines spent years of dreaming and scheming before they teach their lies to future downlines.

What professors teach are mostly proven truths and facts.

What uplines teach are mostly questionable stuffs that are risky and dangerous.

Anonymous said...

Sorry but you are mis-informed... Those marketable skills go to sometime guys who are not formally & academically educated (good examples you must be aware of) called business owners (who got mindset of why they are in their own business).

The distributor who sells you product outside also gets a percentage of the profit, the difference his biz plan don't allow him to share profits for "word of mouth" marketing con-Sumer do...
Infact Two books that I recommend you read (get from public library) written by Professors only who are also entrepreneurs -- Household Gold, Pro-Sumer Power .

Joecool said...

Yes it's possible for someone not formally educated to get a job over someone with college. But it is a documented fact that college grads earn more than non college grads.

I find it interesting that people who support Amway like to point out the best case scenario or point out anomalies and pretend like that's the normal.

Yeah Bill Gates didn't graduate from Harvard but he's the richest man in the world. But he's one man out of 7 billion. Out of that 7 billions, the ones who invested in college are financially better off (on average) than those who didn't,

Anonymous said...

Sorry you are taking it in wrong way , the business opportunity is anyway about educating and empowering...so sure get educated, now think what is the best use of that education, in your own biz or just for someone else biz only... Yes Mr.Gates is richest person in the world today, and think he also had same 24hrs like others, what he did in those to build his net-work that made him what he is today, and if that's not enough for you get this, Microsoft is one of the global technology provider for Amway and not only that part of our affiliate partner stores program... Want more on how we are empowering con-Sumer to become pro-Sumer ,check this..
http://youtu.be/b83jmLNZ9E4

Stop your negative experience with a person (s), give bad impression to the business opportunity which represent #FreeEnterprise at its purest and what I consider as the "Best Export" of US to rest of the World.

I have provided enough information that will help you and anyone reading this make Informed & Educated choice about their future...Thank You.

Joecool said...

How is someone empowered by joining Amway? The average income of an Amway IBO is $202 a month, and that's only after Amway disregarded IBOs who did nothing. The real average would be less than $100 a month and that does include the diamonds and crown ambassadors.

The IBOs who are being "educated" are running their businesses at a loss because the Amway "education" can cost a lot of money.

Anonymous said...

The use of the words "empowerment" and "empowering" by Anonymous at 5:18 AM is pure New-Age jargon, and absolutely meaningless. These are fake, fraudulent terms invented by New Age gurus to make bullshit palatable.

You give someone a phony title ("Independent Business Owner"), you tell him how brilliant he is for joining Amway, you make him wear a business suit everywhere, you love-bomb him at endless meetings and briefings, you brainwash him to "be positive" and wear a stupid grin on his face all the time, and PRESTO! He's "empowered!"

In truth, you've taken away his power to make money, to have free time, to think for himself, and to be free of financial bleeding by up-line vermin. Calling this "empowerment" is what Geopge Orwell described in his book 1984: WAR IS PEACE, LOVE IS HATE. It's pure, mindless propaganda.

Wake up, Anonymous at 5:18 AM. You're not being "empowered," You're being fucked.

Anonymous said...

You forget average or otherwise the income of con-Sumer is ZERO.(actually in -ve).
And like I said earlier keep an eye on that number it's going to grow like you have never seen anything before...
Life is not about staying average, Life is about becoming better than we were yesterday and empowering others along the way...That is what Amway Business Opportunity Offers to anyone who is willing to become a better positive human being... #LifeEnricher.

I hope you find your calling in life of helping, empowering & serving people in a positive way.
Thank You.

Joecool said...

LOL, and you advocate for a PRO-sumer.

A consumer who buys something for say $5 can still earn income with a cash back credit card.

Whereas a prosumer buying that same $5 product for $15 "thinks" he's saving $10 because the $15 is IBO cost and full retail is $25. Then you get your rebate from the MLM company and get back maybe 45 cents (3%). In the end, you still paid $9.55 more than the consumer, but now you get to pay tax on your 45 cents rebate. LOL

In the end, the consumer is still better off financially.

Joecool said...

Your comments are spot on. These folks "think" they are empowered because they heard it at a function or on a CD but the reality is they are being slowly drained of the money one CD or one function at a time.

Anonymous said...

Forget it, Joe. This guy is a pure robotic android, with a mind as repetitious as one of those Amway CDs.

"Pro-sumer" is another one of those meaningless terms, the only function of which is to sound impressive in someone's mouth. As you point out, "pro-suming" is financial suicide for a buyer.

Notice also how this guy says "it's going to grow like you have never seen anything before." How many times have you heard that kind of glassy-eyed hyperbole at an Amway meeting? You can just see the guy with his face in a cloud of ecstasy, gazing up into the sky, and trembling with expectation.

I guess this is what they mean in Amway when they say that you're "fired up."

Joecool said...

Opportunities that "grow like you've never seen" are scams. I'd say that Amway fits that bill. Amway's been around more than 50 years and they've not had any massive growth. Most of their sales come from China where there are 7 billion people. So Amway's 11 billion in sales is not that impressive compared to big retailers like Walmart with nearly half a trillion in sales.

Anonymous said...

If you guys want to make educated & informed choices on learning cost per use, please check Amway website for yourself and learn how to use products from the videos itself(from official sources).
Well you miss that over 50 Billion dollars were distributed to IBO's also (based on performance), which FYI in Walton Family case(remember they are distributor only) stays to make them like you said trillion in sales..(we offer people their own mart without walls ;)).
So find out why they have such a huge business in China,let me give you hint-it's a people business (who got most people ;)), infact HBR-Harvard Business Review had article on it where they wanted to learn from growth Amway had to help other businesses.
Internet has transformed the Direct Selling Companies business model, as people can now go direct and check for themselves (FYI-68% growth from 2004-2014, Want to learn more check Direct Selling News website).
Like I said, I hope GOD give you something(even if not through platform Amway offers) that can help you to positively channelize your energy and time, which I am now going to do, another entrepreneur joining the growing team..

Anonymous said...

How do you become better when you lose money month after month?

Joecool said...

You only get better when you're brainwashed to think that losing money is success.

Anonymous said...

You realize that you have been loosing money buying as con-Sumer (And will if you don't change your buying location,as you will be working FOR other distributors instead of working WITH) and now you have opportunity to earn and help others ...need right education and for that first right mindset...

Joecool said...

Buying a product is not losing money. If that were true, you'd be losing money as a prosumer as well.

Qiunan Tang said...

True , we just try to no loss if we have the option.

Anonymous said...

"Positively channelize your energy"?

Who the hell talks like this? This guy really is brainwashed robot.

Joecool said...

A smart consumer still wins because Amway products are overpriced.

Anonymous said...

con-Sumer can only be "smart", Pro-sumers are smart & intelligent as they get more value for money.(learn cost per use).
If 11$ bottle gives you 8 bottles of what you buy for 2$ because it's concentrated product,i hope you are smart enough to calculate how much you going to spend for 8 bottles @2$ =16$ (Not to mention where you left the profit).

Joecool said...

The prosumer argument is silly. First of all, Amway products just cost more than comparable products. Take perfect water for example. IBO cost is $40 but bottled water at WalMart costs $4 or $5 a case. Then an IBO must also pay for shipping and an IBO will also have business expenses which easily outweigh any tiny benefit you might have as an IBO pr prosumer.

The prosumer argument is BS.

Qiunan Tang said...

Did you read the lable of amway "water"?

Anonymous said...

Bottled water(your tap water at home is better in quality or use espring to get purified water for yourself & your loved ones) is different than Perfect Water (http://www.drinkperfectwater.com/ )...similar to a Toyota's car is different than a Mercedes ...Quality is something that you will not hear from Walton family that they offer... And in North American market you see 6 months satisfaction guarantee.
You need to first realize Walton Family is "a distributor only" , they don't make the products..(atleast yet), so first some manufacturer distribute the product to them and then they do (indirect distribution), whereas we empower folks to go direct and help others do the same...

Need to learn supply chain, hope this can help-

In-Direct Selling
Manufacturer-Distribution Center-Wholesler-Retailer-Con-Sumer.... (con-Sumer pays everyone else makes)

Direct Selling--
Manufacturer-Distribution Center-Pro-Sumer & Network of them working Together. (pro-Sumer pays and everyone including prosumer makes based on their performance).

Every business owner including Walton Family pays shipping to get the product (FYI for most part they are hidden in the product price).

Anonymous said...

Listen and Read about some entrepreneurs who has changed the world positively and you will learn (including the one who are building Robots or autonomous cars)

Anonymous said...

Notice how Amway defenders always fall back upon the "It's concentrated!" argument whenever you point out the financial absurdity of their "pro-sumer" bullshit.

Buying something like water for $40 a case when you can get essentially the same thing for $5 a case is INSANE. But I suppose that's what Amway is -- self-sustaining insanity.

Anonymous said...

Joe, how about they will ingrained the audience to: hate their jobs, hate their boss for "dictating" their income, and most of all they will preach about people losing jobs due to business downturns.

Anonymous said...

During the last 50 years, there was no internet. That is the reason that amway was thriving for that 50 years, in a sense that the upline's practices went undetected.

When the internet made it to the mainstream, their growth was hindered when former IBO's posted their harrowing experiences on the internet and the rest followed.

Their growth was hindered when people started to post their unpleasant experiences in the internet and with it, the unethical practices and the abuse of the uplines.

Joecool said...

Amway IBOs are not entrepreneurs.

Joecool said...

The Amway stuff doesn't have shipping hidden in the cost. It's in additon to te already high prces.

Anonymous said...

Notice on the sentences they make?

Anonymous said...

Once again, Anonymous at 5:06 AM uses the stupid term "empower." It is basically meaningless, like "pro-sumer."

You are not "empowered" when you join Amway and buy from them. You are being fleeced of your money. If anything, being "empowered" just means that you are living in a dream world.

And "pro-sumer" is not just a phony word, but a phony idea as well. When you buy something you buy it, and THAT'S ALL. The only thing at issue is the price you pay. There is absolutely no difference between a consumer and a "pro-sumer" except that the so-called pro-sumer is an idiot who can't do math.

Joecool said...

Prosumer is just a BS term that was made by someone who wrote a nook promoting MLM. The concept is that you buy from yourself because the MLM "pays" you.

But why would you pay $10 more for a product just because you get paid a few cents for it? You are still better off just buying a product for less at a retailer.

Joecool said...

Definition of prosumer: ""A prosumer is a person who consumes and produces media. It is derived from "prosumption", a dot-com era business term meaning "production by consumers". These terms were coined by American futurist Alvin Toffler, and were widely used by many technology writers of the time.""

So the Amway leaders are also wrong about what a prosumer is.