Monday, April 11, 2016

Why Amway IBOs Fail?

So many IBOs quit and fail, I think the Amway corporation might need a calculator to keep track. And of the IBOs who work and try hard, most of those IBOs also end up in failure and losing money. After years of blogging about Amway, I believe it is because the uplines and the tools they sell to help IBOs are ineffective. When I was an IBO, I don't recall many tools that contained information teaching me how to run a business or how to run an Amway business. There was no talk about tracking income and expenses. In fact, our group was advised to ignore the facts. The scary thing about this is that it is evident that some groups are still teaching this.

Many IBOs and prospects are lured into the business by displays of wealth and not because of bonafide and verified business credentials. A friend of mine sold his franchise business a few years ago and part of what he provided to the prospective buyer was the last three years of his tax returns, personal and business returns. But try asking an upline to even see a business profit loss statement or a schedule C business tax return and you are likely to be told it is none of your business. Instead, upline may show off a photocopy of a bonus check which may be an annual or a once in a lifetime bonus. Or upline may show off a sports car as evidence that they are successful. Sadly, some of these uplines might be broke, they may owe back taxes to the IRS and/or they may even be in debt but simply showing off wealth.

Some uplines have the nerve to discourage young people from furthering their education because they would rather they channel their money into Amway and tools. Some people are told to make family sacrifices to attend more functions or to buy more standing orders. I will grant that not all uplines do this but based on my experience, I would say more uplines do this than not. They will apply subtle pressure on new IBOs and the newbies probably don't know much about Amway or business so they basically have to choice but to trust a diamond who has allegedly achieved the pinnavle of success in Amway. Then uplines will often betray their disciples by saying that failure is the personal responsibility of teh IBO. That advice needs to be discerned by the new IBO and bad advice should be discarded, as if a new IBO would know what is good or bad advice.

I aso see experienced IBOs who don't seem to know how taxes work. I see IBOs who were given the impression that Amway is easy and that they will work once and enjoy the fruits of their labor forever. Oddly, I don't know of a single IBO who did the work once and sat back collecting residual income forever. I find it odd that even tenured crown ambassadors continue to keep busy work schedules. I suppose they could just enjoy this lifestyle but still I find it odd that nobody I know of could specifically name an IBO who achieved diamond and higher and sat back collecting income while enjoying the beaches of the world.

Seems that IBO turnover and failure is more common than not in the AMO world. It also appears that incoming IBOs are like fuel to a fire. Without continuous recruitment and replacement of IBOs who quit, the organization would eventually fall apart along with the bonuses that the higher ups enjoy. It is my informed opinion that many IBOs fail because they aren't taught sound business principles. Despite the constant flow of cds, voice messages and functions and meetings, it doesn't seem as if any practical information is passed from upline to downline. Only messages of never quitting and continuing to dedicate themselves to the system. The result is inevitable and the expected result is failure.

27 comments:

Anonymous said...

(1) Anything taken out of context or not thought about can be misconstrued or misunderstood. "Ignore the facts" is a general phrase used in all forms of business mentorship, not just MLM's referring to thought process. You can't run any successful business, regardless of the vertical, if you obsess over losses in the first 5 years. In fact, Robert Kiyosaki, who is extremely successful and not involved with any MLMs, thoroughly discourages anyone getting involved with out resolving to stick it out for 5 years.

You are correct, there are bad people and morons in everything anyone can do. The police and the military and the government have their bad eggs too. I think your blog is an excellent example of this as well. In the critic world most critics lives revolve around an industry, not a company. From an outside looking in perspective, you're pretty butt hurt about getting in business with the wrong person. I understand that can ruin someone's experience. But try getting in business with an MLM that doesn't have an unlimited stair step break away plan, try a binary system like World Ventures. There you're charged a monthly membership fee until you have both legs filled. And you only get credit for your shallowest leg. But it's okay, because your blog is going to right the world of the largest and most successful direct sales opportunity internationally. Or so you've convinced yourself.

Again, I'm hearing nothing but your opinion on this, and I thank you for admitting that not every upline is a crook. And again, I'm going to turn this to the traditional business world. If you open up a store in a strip mall, and you're the only employee and your sisters daughter is having her first birthday party on Saturday, are you closing your store on the busiest day of the week? What if it's your mother's birthday? And people wonder why 9 out of 10 businesses fail in the first 5 years... they listen to moronic advice like your blog suggests. They get in business for themselves because they want more control of their time but overlook the fact that to get ANY business up and running successfully, there will be sacrifice and there will be events missed. And that sacrifice is to ensure that you and your family can live a comfortable life later. I worry about your separation from reality, Joe. That's not an Amway or even an MLM issue. And since education is a big topic, I want to point out last year the average college graduate left school with $32,000 in student loans. The only loans you cant claim bankruptcy on. And the average graduate found a job (actually they didnt find one in their area of study, on average) for $38,000/ year. That's gross, not net. Since 1989 the cost of college has gone up over 1100% and in the same time period the average American is making 5% less than they were. (average American made around $38,000 in 1989 and current averages are around $36,200). The only pitfall your blog overlooks is inflation. Now, I'm not even going to lie about those numbers, I don't know how much inflation has gone up since 1989. But I'd be willing to bet it's a lot more than 5%. So whether someone is in an MLM Business or not, unless you're going for a degree in the medical field or something that REQUIRES a higher level of training, you're a moron for hurting yourself, and hurting your parents. Because they work their butt off to get you through college and it doesnt get you further ahead. Look at the under-employed stats. I digress.

Anonymous said...

(2) That's because any intelligent business owner and anyone ambitious enough to make it past the 4000pv mark knows that their income goes up with the more people they help hit platinum. You got in business to build a better life, you keep building that business to have an even better life. There's something great about seeing someone else's life transformed. Now, you cant transform it for them, you can only lead a horse to water. Assume you were ambitious enough to achieve a Diamond pin, we all know you're too negative and selfish to do so, so we're just pretending now, nobody get upset. But let's pretend, I'd bet you become pretty good friends with the 6 people you've helped make an extra $50K-$75K per year. Now pretend they tell you, they want to do what you did, but they dont know how, they need some guidance. Would you help them? Or are you so selfish to say, "I'll do the best I can, I'm in Prague right now." No, you'd help your friend because it would be fricking SWEET to have them with you in Prague.

Anonymous said...

(3) Well, there's your problem right there. You expect failure. A small hint I want to offer you is go read ANY business book on expectation. Wait, I'll save you the time. You get what you expect. And your expectation should be equal to the work you're willing to put in. And that goes to ANYTHING in life. Baseball, raising kids, relationships, you name it. Turnover in any MLM is high, not just Amway, in fact, Amway is at record highs for retention. Your information is tainted by the negative opinion that you have. What's most heartbreaking is if you were half as consistent with your former Amway business that you are with this blog you would definitely be a lot more successful. And here's why I know that is fact. You probably live a good life compared to everyone else jumping out of the airplane without a parachute. But in every blog post you reiterate the same stale and tainted opinions that I'm not shocked you failed. If your upline mis-treated you so bad, why didnt you just report them? Why didn't you just ask Amway to transfer LOS? It's not something they do for just anybody, but if your situation was really that bad, I'm sure they would have. OR better yet, if you were ambitious enough to build any successful business, Amway or Traditional you would have stopped making excuses and just gone out and built your business your own way. You're not required to go to meetings to have your IBO number, you're not Required to go to the conferences, you're not required to do anything, so be a successful business owner and just go do it yourself. After all, you got in business to better your own life, right? Travel the beaches of the world. The reason I can confidently make fun of this blog is that I know you're not that ambitious. I know you're far too selfish to do anything significant because you signed up for the "You get in business and I'm going to make you rich without doing anything" program. And I know that because you never hit direct (same as Silver/Gold/Platinum for anyone reading this that doesn't know). You got stuck at 4000pv when most people have to start taking responsibility for their team and you wanted to live in the illusion that people are going to follow you just because. And that's exactly why you started a blog post about your butt pains. Your self image is so low, and your ego is so big that you have to find any way to try and maintain your narcissism even if that means stealing other peoples dreams. You are right, not everyone that gets started actually does it, but that doesnt mean it's bad.

Anonymous said...

(4) Steve Harvey was an IBO, he talked about it on his show last month. Even though he didnt build his business, he says he learned, from the Amway training system he was in and his upline, all the success principles he applies in his life today. And you know what, he's a lot more successful than you. I know that because his name is Steve Harvey and he's got his own show and he hosts Family Feud. His name isn't Joe(i'm going to use a crappy nom de plume that has the name "cool" in it because I need to stroke my ego and tell everyone how cool I am instead of just being cool). The issue with your blog sir, is that you are actively trying to force opinion down peoples throats. I'd understand if someone said "hey, I was thinking about getting in Amway" and you give your opinion then. They sought you out. If that were you I could call you a moron. But you take it to the next level and have to initiate, and that makes you a jerk. It makes you a jerk because there are little boys and little girls right now, who 10 years from now are going to think about doing something different with their life. And they're going to stumble upon your blog and be deterred away from what could be their one shot at a better future. It might not be that they do Amway, but you might have deterred them away from learning something that allows them to go on and do bigger and better things. I mean seriously, they could learn success principles like Steve and go start a traditional business and become successful. And they then take their success and go fund someone that develops the cure for cancer, or ALS, or AIDS, or you name it. The possibilities are endless. But it will never happen because Joecool was butt hurt that he signed up for Amway and was disappointed when he found out it wasn't a Pyramid Scheme. Joe, you wouldn't have succeeded at a Pyramid Scheme either, you actually need to apply effort to that too.

The best part is, I'd be shocked if you even read this. You probably have so many people respond and tell you you're a moron. With how long you've been blogging I'd be shocked if you still read them. But if you do and you're reading this now, congratulations! You've shown that you have put forth the same amount of consistency that it requires to go platinum. Too bad you quit on yourself at 4000pv. Keep blogging buddy!

Joecool said...

Anonymous, thanks for your humorous response. Funny, Steve Harvey isn't making money in Amway now is he?

How am I actively forcing my opinion down people's throats? I write articles on this blog and people find it on google. They come here on their own. They can read what's written and decide for themselves if what I've written is valid or not.

That's better than the Amway scammer who pretend everyone can go diamond when the reality is that only a small fraction of 1% of people ever reach diamond. Mostly everyone in Amway, including yourself are losing money because of the tools and functions.

But keep on losing money and smiling. You're making your upline proud.

Joecool said...

Your comments are so off base, I don't know where to start. Kiyosaki is a scammer. He made his money from the audiences of MLMs like Amway because they were suckered into buying his wares. There's no evidence that he's made any money using his own advice.

And you're comparing Amway with a brick and mortar business. Yeah, you may miss a few parties at first if you open a conventional store unless you find someone to cover for you. But why are Amway IBOs asked to make the same sacrifice? Why would it matter if someone missed a function to attend a birthday party? It only matters because upline doesn't make any profit from you if you skip the function. Unless that function directly results in you making more money, you wasted your time anyway.

I notice you tossed out some information about college student but of course you provided zero evidence to back your claim. I also noticed you didn't mention that it's a well documented fact that college grads earn more than people without college.

Joecool said...

Isn't that ironic? I did everything my upline told me plus I worked smart and hard but didn't make any net profit. I expected to succeed and it looked like it except where it counted - net profit.

For the record, after I left Amway, I reported the unethical practices and I didn't see or hear anything about any action taken and Amway didn't bother to respond to my complaint. After that I just forgot about Amway until I can across some forums where I saw the same BS coming from upline. That inspired me to start a blog about Amway and the unethical groups that sell tools and functions.

And while I'm actually laughing at your posts because it shows what a good brainwashing can do - turn off critical thinking.

I'll bet you're a fairly new IBO, losing money but fired up about Amway because you think you're going to get rich. In the meantime, you are losing money month after month and before you know it, the next major function is coming up and your losses start to get bigger, not to mention the 100 PV you are purchasing because you can't sell many products except to family and friends who feel sorry for you.

Thanks for visiting. You posts do more to promote my message than the actual articles I write. LOL

Jerry D. said...

By all means, don't ever quit, Anonymous! Keep sending thousands of your $$$$ up to your diamonds so they can wipe their asses with it! Don't let ANYBODY steal that dream from you! LOL!

Jerry D. said...

Steve Harvey has a J-O-B! He has a boss that he's a slave to!!! He's a loser according to WWDB!!! LOL : )

Joecool said...

Yes, those of us who don't promote Amway are dream stealers!

Joecool said...

That's right, he's "working for the man". LOL

The diamonds probably work the hardest trying to replace everyone who quits!

Anonymous said...

Its a scam. I was in BWW and the same old diamonds are working the system hard years later. Guess they cant retire...ever. It seems the few diamonds that are emerging are the children of the diamonds. Seems suspicious. I was lured to an open meeting under false pretense. Amway was never mentioned once. This should be illegal. Its a fake business scam. It is kind of sad that these old diamonds are still working putting up this front that they are free when they are anything but free.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous of April 11 (my God, what a talker!) is a lying hypocrite.

The entire gist of his long-winded argument is that Joe Cool "didn't try hard enough." Isn't that the typical Amway "Blame the victim" ploy? If you don't make it in Amway, it just HAS to be your own fault.

Then there comes all the canned Amway bullshit -- it's a waste of time to go to college; it's necessary to miss family events (yeah, sure -- a Las Vegas function listening to Diamonds lie about their wealth is an absolute requirement for your business); you're helping your down-line out of "love"; getting people into Amway will help cure cancer and AIDS. Jeez -- it's hard to believe that anybody can spout this sort of drivel with a straight face, but I guess it takes all kinds to make a world.

Anonymous drops his hypocritical mask in the last section of his interminable post, when his anger becomes very apparent. Joe Cool is "a dream-stealer!" He's preventing poor widdle kids in the future from signing up in an MLM! How dare Joe Cool do that! He ought to be censored!

That's the real motive behind this guy's post. He's furious at the exposure of the truth. And the truth is what Joe Cool and many other courageous bloggers have been putting up on the internet for many years now. Do you think they've spent their time and energy and money on these blogs for personal profit, Anonymous? No -- they want to warn people away from what is a CRIMINAL SCAM. They are performing a public service. And if you and your Amway buddies don't like it, you can just go fuck yourselves.

Got that, Anonymous? Good. Now you can go back to drawing chalk circles.

Joecool said...

I believe diamonds become a slave to the system. They can't walk away because their tool income would stop immediately if they stopped working. And with taxes and expenses, diamonds are not lliving in the lap of luxury unless they have tens of thousands of downline.

Joecool said...

Thanks for your supporting comments. That the danger of Amway. If you fail, theywant to blame the victim. Sure, if you did nothing then you got what you worked for. As an IBO, I worked super hard driving the miles and working for my group only to discover that the money wasn't there. I also started seeing through the upline lies such as get out of debt but go and charge your functions and whatnot.

And you are right. I don't earn anything to rn this blog. I do it in the hopes that sharing my insight and personal experience will help someone to avoid the traps of the upline or to at least join with full disclosure that the odds are astronomical against them. I consider it a pubic service and many people have written to thank me over the years because they received the information they needed to make a good decision about Amway.

About 405 years ago I tried putting adsense on this blog to make some money and guess what? My blog was sabotaged and the adsense revenue taken away before I received my first payment.

Ben Dover said...

Whew...just made it through the comments and WOW! That second anonymous really hit the nail on the head for the first anonymous's string of vitriol.

Joe, your blog is clearly working and you probably ruined an opportunity for that first anonymous to capture a prospect in his web of lies and turn them into an Ambot because they found your page. That first anonymous indirectly was saying...DANGIT JOE YOUR BLOG WORKS! So kudos to you for sticking it to guy!

I'll keep this short and sweet...thank you to the first anonymous for again proving how ridiculous the Amway logic is...Your assumptions are simply a reflection of yourself. When you say stuff like Joe is butthurt, and he can succeed, and college is a scam...blah blah blah it's coming through as, you are butthurt, your prospects are not joining, and you didn't have the determination or skills in high school to get into college and stick with it. It's sad to see, but these Ambots are SO uneducated that a lot of the damage is done by themselves.

Anonymous said...

So he said something about how he knows who Steve Harvey is because he has his own tv shows. Well that's great but now name someone in AMWAY that has actually made it to the top and is under 35. We'll wait.

-A

rocket said...

LOL Anonymous:

"because there are little boys and little girls right now, who 10 years from now are going to think about doing something different with their life. And they're going to stumble upon your blog and be deterred away from what could be their one shot at a better future. "

If Amway is their only shot at a better future, then we'll all be weeping for humanity. Lotsa words there, but very little in the way that demonstrates Amway is profitable.

I'm sure your upline loves you. Keep buying the motivation my friend. Come back when you get your head out of your ass and tell us all about it!

Joecool said...

LOL, yes, if Amway is their one shot, they are doomed.

Joecool said...

I used to be in WWDB and the same old tired diamonds are still there, but a bunch of them quit or left Amway and 1 or 2 new diamonds that I heard of. Not much progress in the last 20 years. Not to mention a diamond can be unqualified but can still parade on stage and get paid to speak at functions.

Joecool said...

Yes, it is reassuring to see that the blog is helping to spread information that was not accessible to most people back before the internet became widespread.

Jerry D. said...

Well, your blog clearly works, Joecool, because it's what saved me from being scammed, as well as Anna Banana's blog, the book 'Merchants of Deception', and the mockumentary 'Believe' (2007) [free on Hulu]. Your blog not only saved me, but inspired me to warn over a dozen of my friends against this scam so they are prepared for it. Lots of them had not yet heard about it, so now they're immunized against it : ) Your blog also inspired me to try to save a couple of Ambots and constantly try to harass them with facts and rebuttals to their bullshit arguments and tactics and show them official Amway documents that refute their WWDB bullshit. Thanks, Joecool! Don't let any Ambot steal your dream of saving people from Scamway! : )

Joecool said...

Thanks for the comments. I actually don't tell people not to join but to know the facts. Some people still join even after doing research. But my hope is that people can see the warning signs and can recognize the problems before getting too heavily involved.

Anonymous said...

they are just like those people who sit in the casino whole day playing slot machines...

Anonymous said...

Tens of thousands? you have to show "the plan" to about hundreds of thousands of people. I would rather be a mayor of a small town with hundreds of thousands of people.

Joecool said...

Yes, you are nearly assured of losing but once in a while, someone will hit a jackpot.

Joecool said...

The diamond's philosophy is to extract a little bit of money from a lot of people.