Wednesday, April 20, 2016

The Amway "Systems" Are Broken?

If you are an IBO or being recruited to be an IBO, it is almost certain that you are being recruited by an IBO in a "system". Now the system will likely have a name such as Network 21, WWDB, BWW, LTD or some others. Most if not all of these groups or systems will claim they are the best, fastest growing, or the most profitable. Now we know that they all cannot be the fastest growing or whatever. Most if not all of these systems will advise their IBOs to participate in their system. The system generally consists of websites, voicemail, books, cds, standing order cds, seminars and perhaps other workshops. The pressure to participate may varyt amongst groups, but it appears that the more you participate, the greater the pressure placed on you. Sort of like the analogy of boiling the frog.

All of these system companies are for profit companies, and generally the profits go to the diamonds and higher pins who own and run these companies. Some of the system diamonds earn most of their income from the sale of these tools. Now these system promoters may tell you that the system is vital to your success and some may claim that you cannot succeed without them. However, these system companies profit from selling you these materials whether you as an IBO profit or not. These systems profit even if you work hard and still go broke. While the system owners may claim that all success is attributable to the system, the same claim can be made of an even greater number of failures. Even the IBOs who put in an earnest amount of effort have an insignificant rate of success, perhaps lower than 1%. It is easy to conclude this because many and possibly most platinum businesses will consist of 100 or more IBOs. The platinum level is allegedly where an IBO breaks even or starts to make a small profit. Factor in the people who come and go (quit) and it is easy to conclude that the vast majority of IBOs either make nothing or lose money.

When you factor in the system expenses, then the number of IBOs who lose money goes up significantly. Looking at the 6-4-2 plan or whatever version your group uses, the lower levels of IBOs will earn less than $50 in a month, with most IBOs earning less than $20 per month. These IBOs won't even earn enough to cover the cost of their voicemail. If an IBO is participating in all of the system tools such as functions, it is nearly guaranteed that these IBOs will lose money due to the system expenses.

My conclusion is that the system just does not work. There is no unbiased documentation that suggests that the system works. Sure there may be some biased testimonials, but that would probably be it. If you are an active IBO, you can easily see if the system works as there would be new platinums, emeralds and diamonds emerging frequently, but that is not the case. It seems Amway is declining in the US and therefore, any new success (pins) will simply be replacing former pins who fall out of qualification or those who quit. The system does not work. However, I also came to the conclusion that nearly all of these financial systems do not work, including real estate gurus, Kiyosaki etal. It is why when they show success testimonials, there is usually a diaclaimer saying "unique experience".

In most if not all of these systems, including the Amway systems, apparently success is a unique experience. My conclusion? The system is broken. The system does not work. Some people can succeed in spite of the system, but rarely ever because of the system.

85 comments:

Ben Dover said...

This reminds me of death by Groupon. In one of my other professions (Gondoliering), Groupon can be very enticing for the slower months. The problem with Groupon is that it saturates your market AND it makes people expect to pay less than your normal retail pricing. One of my former companies utilized Groupon at the beginning, because the money came in before the people utilized their coupons, and a lot of people forget/don't go before it expires therefore you are essentially getting free money. However, they did not account for the fact that the gondola rides are a novelty, and most people only go once. After the first round, the regular business slowed dramatically, and they were forced to put out more Groupons to generate the loss in revenue. They are now living Groupon to Groupon, and they are not selling out like they were.

This is similar to Amway, because initially these subsidiary groups did not exist. It wasn't until Amway Diamonds realized the best way to keep people's skin in the game was to endlessly motivate them. Otherwise the churn rate was worse, and growth was inconsistent or declining. It however has gotten to the point where the motivation has taken over the monetary gains from the actual business, similar to that of Groupon. Now motivation has been more tainted than ever because of the internet and growth is again faltering. It appears to be only a matter of time before it comes crashing down, OR they find their next Groupon to latch onto.

Joecool said...

Good analogy. I have heard that venues for functions are getting smaller so it's possible that the tool money is drying up. Also, readily available information on the internet can deter some people from joining. That's why I haven't given up on blogging just yet.

Anonymous said...

It boils down to this, whether as applied to Amway or any other concern: If you're selling something that nobody really wants, your business will inexorably and inevitably dry up.

Now in the case of Amway, nobody really wanted the products to begin with. But the products were never anything but a fig leaf to cover up what Amway was REALLY selling -- namely, hopes and dreams. The various LOS organizations figured out pretty quickly that since these were Amway's only dependable and profit-making products, smart Amwayers ought to concentrate exclusively on the motivational tools and the hype.

But things have now changed radically. With the explosion of information and electronic instant communication, fewer and fewer people really want to buy those two old dependable Amway products called "hopes" and "dreams." They've figured out that the products are phony. They've visited the many blogs and websites that tell the horror stories and absurdities and downright lying and cheating of Amway. As Ben Dover might put it in his analogy, not too many people want to take gondola rides anymore!

In the long run, Amway is finished. Its reputation has taken so many hits since the coming of the internet that it has become a by-word for scams and rip-offs, even outside of the United States.

As for other MLMs, who knows? There seems to be a built-in need in some people to be cheated and duped.

Joecool said...

Last year, Amway saw a double digit drop in sales, from 11.8 down to 9.5 billion. Plus, Amway is in China and once the Chinese figure out the scam, sales will begin to slow down.

Anonymous said...

SYSTEM-Save Your Self Time, Efforts & Money, in educating people about the concept of Free Enterprise...
Again optional for every IBO, like buying products from their own distributorship, those who force, do so at their own peril, as sooner or later people will figure out what adds Value to their life & business.
Difference in Groupon they buy in bulk(aka spend $$$) and then pass on little discounts (trying all sorts of tactics), we don't encourage people to invest in buying bulk, we educate them to decide for themselves what adds more value -buying from your own distributorship biz or some other distributor biz...Simple.

Anonymous said...

To Anonymous at 3:13 --

WTF?

Jerry D. said...

As an IBO, you're not buying from your own business, you're buying from Amway, you dumb Anonymous asshole!

Joecool said...

I think that's what IBOs miss in the process. That ultimately they are buying from Amway and only the uppper uplines and Amway are making any money.

Anonymous said...

If Walton family buys items for their own home from their own business,that's called common-sense-every business owner is their own business first & best reference customer..
Wonder why so confused, business owners make profit when product & service is sold, same when shopping outside at other IN-Direct Distributors, Upline is a business owner to, so if they make profit what's wrong, what you miss and not yet realize is Downline too can make profit & opportunity to make MORE than the Upline .

Amway is a supplier that offers that opportunity to anyone looking for one to build their business network... Or by default folks are part of some other distributor's network...(your net-worth in life is equal to your productive net-work).

They buy DIRECTLY from them, unlike in traditional supply & distribution where folks buy IN-DIRECTLY from other fellow distributors (remember--behind the brand is a human-more specifically an entrepreneur), almost 80 plus of them in North America are now part of expanded ecosystem of affiliated partners and offer value to IBO's & their customers buying experience.....simple.

Upline( a fellow IBO) role is to guide, educate & empower & help grow Downline IBO business, if downline IBO wanted too ... Thanks to Internet IBO's can(and i encourage should) buy directly from Amway website.. So not only they buy product they can also learn more about the benefits-quality,value and the opportunity that comes alongwith and with official social media channels a vibrant community globally who share their experience and personal testimonials.

Ben Dover said...

Anonymous said, "SYSTEM-Save Your Self Time, Efforts & Money, in educating people about the concept of Free Enterprise..." Interesting...my definition for your SYSTEM is a bit different - Stuff you sell to eliminate marriage...I can see the confusion!

Anonymous said, "Again optional for every IBO, like buying products from their own distributorship, those who force, do so at their own peril, as sooner or later people will figure out what adds Value to their life & business."

I love this optional argument...it seems to come up constantly as of late. It is optional in the sense that jumping off of a bridge is optional...you can do it but it isn't rational. In fact, when I was trying to join, I was denied because I specifically said I would not pay for the tools. I would join only if I could pay for solely the Amway yearly membership and the products. The upline told me that is not how they conduct business...some kind of option eh?

Anonymous said, "Difference in Groupon they buy in bulk(aka spend $$$) and then pass on little discounts (trying all sorts of tactics), we don't encourage people to invest in buying bulk, we educate them to decide for themselves what adds more value -buying from your own distributorship biz or some other distributor biz...Simple."

First of all...what is your definition of a little discount? Groupon has a mandatory 50% off of products...that doesn't seem little. You don't encourage people to buy in bulk? You tell people to spend extra because it is more concentrated...sounds the same to me! Also, bulk primarily equals savings...is this your way of openly admitting that Amway doesn't have great value for their products?

I don't think you do much of any educating...it is more like commanding. Forcing people to attend meetings or suffer penalties/expulsion is not optional and it isn't educational to hear over and over again how great the diamond lifestyle is...its manipulation and evil...SIMPLE

Joecool said...

Upline will say "tools are optional, but so is success". Another one I heard was that "so and so is a multi millionaire and he says tools are vital to your success but if you think you know better....."
Or, "nobody has ever succeeded without tools, but you can try to become the first".

It's a defacto requirement.

Anonymous said...

Ben, that Anonymous guy is a doubletalking con-man. All he's trying to do is confuse people with a lot of jargon and Amway-speak. As you point out clearly, his "argument" is completely fallacious.

And yes -- Amway up-line simply WON'T deal with you if you refuse to buy the fucking "tools." It's no more optional than refusing an order in combat is optional. The fat-assed bigshots in Ada, Michigan may claim that tools are optional, but they won't lift a goddamned finger to stop the various LOS groups from compelling the purchase of tools.

Anonymous said...

SYSTEM - Sell Your Soul To EMpower. His doubletalking means that he is selling his soul to be "empowered" to fulfill his pipe dream of residual income.

Joecool said...

Yes, try not buying tools. Your upline will quickly disown you. Try it if you don't believe me.

Anonymous said...

Feel sorry for you and the folks who believe your posts and miss the opportunity to change their future, those who learn about Free Enterprise, importance of Education about Entrepreneurs Mindset and work together enjoy the rewards, and everyone has same OPPORTUNITY , not all of them started at same time but all reached a certain level and get opportunity to share their experience with each other and Njoy the rewards --
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/amway-china-chooses-queenstown-new-zealand-to-host-its-2018-leadership-seminar-300255931.html

Anonymous said...

IBO themselves are the consumers of Amway products and the tools. Any other jargons they say is nothing but a sugar-coated language.

Joecool said...

Yes, without self consumption by IBOs, I believe Amway sales would be very small.

Joecool said...

Amway is not free enterprise. You have been fooled by false teaching. And Amway is not a entrepreneurial endeavor. You are simply a commission only sales person for Amway and subject to all their rules and regulations.

And to make it worse, you have a defacto quota (100 PV) to earn any bonus in the first place.

Why would you feel sorry for me? I did much better financially AFTER I quit Amway.

Anonymous said...

You follow rules to keep the society you live in safe?.. Not crossing on red lights etc...

Amway is a platform for those with entrepreneurial ambitions with team of entrepreneurs working to share their experience...(unlike in outside world where they compete we educate on collobaration).
Everyone who is in sales is a commission only.. Methods may be different -fixed salary and/or bonus ..
There is no quota of 100PV... You are mistaken my friend... Yes performance bonus in NA market starts at 100PV at this point, in some markets it's different.. Nothing different , once IBO realize if they don't perform in their business by default they are doing it other business owner biz... Btw, in certain markets IBO can make 100PV without even buying single product that are exclusively made by Amway....
You might have done much better financially and good for you... But in most cases(E & S quadrants) ends with individual, we educate people on understanding the long term benefits of building their business network(as your net-worth in life is equal to your productive net-work)...so understand if you are not building your by default your part of other who understands this..

Joecool said...

I never said there was a quota. I said a defacto quota. It is taught and if you don't reach 100 PV then you are not "core". I doubt there are many IBOs who make 100 PV without making any of their own purchases. In fact it's probably the opposite where many purchase 100 PV and never sell a single item.

What is the long term benefit of Amway other than debt and financial losses? Most IBOs make nothing, or lose money if they are attending functions and buying tools.

I doubt that you are unique in this aspect of the business.

Anonymous said...

You are not working with entrepreneurs. You are on your own, hence the term "Independent", Anon at 4:15PM

Those "entrepreneurs" are leeching you dry before you know it. You have to pay these "entrepreneurs" before they are going to "help you" build the business.

Anonymous said...

Ever figure out WHY that is told? So new IBO can learn if they want Performance Bonus they need to perform in their business( as prior to that they have been performing in other (in-direct) distributor biz).
You missed one of my post earlier that you didn't approve which talks about common sense..so of course you control what get shows on this platform...

You are independent on making your decisions and choices what you want to do with the Opportunity..

What is the long term benefit of building your business... You should learn from associations with IBO's who have 3rd or 4th generation in business And look at other entrepreneurs outside also who have built long term businesses who their generations live compare to those who didn't build their but only helped others.

Ben Dover said...

I like how that anonymous says you need to learn an "Entrepreneurial Mindset", or whatever the heck that means...these useless terms to describe ambition/drive and a necessity to make money. The entrepreneurial mindset is another stupid term Amway uses to help brainwash people, and if you are trying to learn it by reading about the 4 quadrants from Kiyosaki...then you are in big trouble. That guy has never had success from a legitimate entrpreneurial venture, and has actually failed at Amway and his own businesses. Seems like the last person you should be taking advice from.

As far as the quadrants go, which quadrant do you think you are in currently? As an IBO at any level other than diamond, according to Kiyosaki rules, you are at best an S, since you are not considered big business until you have 500 employees (downline in this situation). My guess is that you are not a diamond, and therefore are not part of the quadrant you are claiming to be so wonderful, therefore you cannot pass judgments about people in the "E" or "S" quadrants. For all IBO's that are not Diamond or higher, and even those that are at those ranks to some degree, you are an E quadrant participant. You have to listen to upline (boss), you are not in charge of product distribution, marketing, manufacturing, your website etc. The only S class freedoms you get to enjoy are not having regular hours (in this case not a good thing, since you probably are making less than a minimum wage worker) and you have to provide your own benefits as Amway will not give you any, EVER. Congratulations on earning all those wonderful freedoms in your terrible business opportunity.

Joecool said...

I don't delete comments unless they are racist or laced with profanity. I have nothing to hide. Unless your comment went to the spam folder, which I do not really check.

You are not independent. You are at Amway's mercy all the way.

If you build your business long term, you greatly help your upline more than yourself since they make a lot of their income from tool purchases.

The Amway business is not entrepreneurial like you think. Sorry but that's the truth.

Joecool said...

Kiyosaki is like the diamonds. He makes his money off Amway IBOs selling books and seminars. There is no evidence I know of showing that Kiyosaki has made a cent by following his own advice.

People who sell you "financial" advice usually make their money that way rather than by applying their own advice. I believe Kiyosaki fits that category.

Anonymous said...

Here's the one that was not published earlier-
If Walton family buys items for their own home from their own business,that's called common-sense-every business owner is their own business first & best reference customer..
Wonder why so confused, business owners make profit when product & service is sold, same when shopping outside at other IN-Direct Distributors, Upline is a business owner too, so if they make profit what's wrong, what you miss and not yet realize is Downline too can make profit & opportunity to make MORE than the Upline .

Amway is a supplier that offers that opportunity to anyone looking for one to build their business network... Or by default folks are part of some other distributor's network...(your net-worth in life is equal to your productive net-work).

They buy DIRECTLY from them, unlike in traditional supply & distribution where folks buy IN-DIRECTLY from other fellow distributors (remember--behind the brand is a human-more specifically an entrepreneur), almost 80 plus of them in North America are now part of expanded ecosystem of affiliated partners and offer value to IBO's & their customers buying experience.....simple.

Upline( a fellow IBO) role is to guide, educate & empower & help grow Downline IBO business, if downline IBO wanted too ... Thanks to Internet IBO's can(and i encourage should) buy directly from Amway website.. So not only they buy product they can also learn more about the benefits-quality,value and the opportunity that comes alongwith and with official social media channels a vibrant community globally who share their experience and personal testimonials.

====
Keep saying "tools"-- elaborate what they are--Books (hope you read when in school), association (hope you attend some form or other), Tapes/CD/Streaming (hope you listen to those successful in the endeavor you want to pursue)... What's different? No IBO who joins get a chance to talk on stage unless they reach certain level of success...
Something even some "veterans" don't get, it's not Amway business, it's your business, Amway provides supplier platform to anyone who wants to build their business network...
When IBO buy from partner stores what you call that ?

Anonymous said...

FYI,Groupon is part of affiliate partner ecosystem in some NA markets too ;).
Educate yourself from right sources.. Business is of people empowering & serving people.

Joecool said...

Exactly how does anyone's Amway business empower or serve people? I'm sincerely curious about your answer to this.

Anonymous said...

So that 100PV defacto requirement. Does the PV accumulate overtime? So 100PV per month means 1200PV per year?

Joecool said...

You need to earn 100 PB to qualify for a 3% bonus (rebate) from Amway. It's a month to month qualification.

Anonymous said...

Serve customers and Empower IBO's to have business owner mindset.
Amway provides platform to anyone who wants to have their own business without typical challenges which stops most people from starting their own...(high startup cost, products stocking etc).
Just FYI, Many successful IBO's do have traditional business's too...

Anonymous said...

Buying from their own distributorship as IBO, rather than indirectly from other distributors,
What you miss is ,in indirect distribution you don't "see" your upper uplines..hope you realize they exists their too ;)...with the difference they don't give you OPPORTUNITY to improve your future...

Anonymous said...

What is wrong with self-consumption, every business owner is first & best customer of their own biz( simialrly every IBO should be)...

Anonymous said...

Let's say you earn 100PV on the first month, at the second month, does it reset back to 0PV?

Anonymous said...

So true, Joe, those "entrepreneurs" that he says are only interested to help if you buy tools from them. Once you decided to stop, you will get some shit kicking from them.

Joecool said...

That's right. The Amway folks will build you up and edify you only if you are buying tools and participating in the system. If not, you are a loser doomed for financial ruin.

Joecool said...

So if you earn 100 PV, you will earn about $10 for that month's performance and the next month you are reset to zero.

Joecool said...

If you really think about it, you pay for every bit of help you receive.

Joecool said...

Self consumption if fine. But it's not fine if you are actually selling to real customers (non IBOs). If you are you own best customer, your profit is coming from your own pocket. And without real sales, that's a red flag of a pyramid scheme.

Joecool said...

Practically the entire Amway business doesn't give you an opportunity to improve your future. The practical success rate in Amway is effectively zero percent.

Anonymous said...

No wonder thousands of IBO's fall out of qualification from time to time.

Joecool said...

Yes and that means diamonds and big pins must also fall out of qualification as well. All it takes is one platinum to fall and instead of a diamond, you're now an emerald. Or if you're an emerald, you're now a ruby.

What people don't see is that these high pins can also have very high business expenses. Flying to functions, etc can be very expensive.

Anonymous said...

Makes sense, Joe, if those PV accumulate from time to time then Amway itself will crumble because the more PV is accumulated, they have to pay more bonus money to IBO's.

Anonymous said...

You don't own your business, you are at the mercy of Amway's rules and regulations as an IBO. If start up costs are low then the business will reap profit in a short time.

How could an IBO have a traditional business when they have to travel around for functions?

Joecool said...

It's more like you're a commission only salesman. But it's worse that that. Say you got the 3% regardless of whether you reach 100 PV, that's a better deal. If not you have a quota. And why shouldn't Amway pay regardless of whether you reach 100 points? You take all the risk and time to sell their products. Why do you also need to meet a quota?

Joecool said...

There sould be no 100 PV quota because as an IBO, you take the time and expense to sell their products. Why should you also have a quota to get paid?

Anonymous said...

Just as FYI, Opportunity exists independent of System too in countries. System helps to keep the community of entrepreneurs together as they share their experience with each other... And that lead to quicker & sustained growth overall as its all about giving Faith to new IBO, that they are in business for themselves not by themselves.

Anonymous said...

What is real customers, we all are customers... Family,Friends,not yet Friends(strangers) are customers too ,if they are not buying from their own they buy from other distributors...
As for profit, my money is good in my pocket then other "indirect distributor"...
First define What is a pyramid? Then legal/illegal...
Traditional org Structures-- draw them and they will also look like pyramid.... Who makes more $$$,& who do most work, wherein we start here with only one level--CEO of your own business.
Get your facts straight, go to DSEF.org and learn.

Joecool said...

A real customer is someone who is not an Amway IBO. It's in the Amway rules. Go look it up.

An illegal pyramid? In my opinion, it's Amway. They were cleared by the FTC but the ruling hinged on a rule that Amway did not enforce. That the IBOs were supposed to have 10 customers. I believe they rule was not changed to 50 PV.

Joecool said...

The systems are the reason why most business building IBOs lose money. Do the math. I have several articles about this in my archives.

Anonymous said...

Those are "pity purchases".

Joecool said...

I believe most MLM sales are self consumption or pity purchases.

Anonymous said...

Facts and Opinions are different and over 100 countries approve of the business model, so opinions don't count much when people have closed mind and not willing to understand the potential of the opportunity...
Every biz is MLM--difference here we pay those who build the network based on their performance, others don't ;)...
Nothing wrong with self pro-sumption as they are FMCG (Fast Moving Consumable Goods)... Hope you use them too maybe buying from other "indirect distributors"...

Anonymous said...

System can only help, application and following what is recommended is upto each Individual (independent in making that change required for growth).

Anonymous said...

There is no quota... Sell more earn more.. simple business... First performance bonus in some markets starts at 100PV..
How do you think business pay salary to folks in "indirect sales"?..they have quota to sell and from that sale part of profit is their salary...

Joecool said...

There is a quota. If you move 99PV, you don't get a cent fro Amway. It may not be a requirement but it's a quota.

And I doubt that there are more than a few stragglers that can actually sell 100 PV worth of stuff.

Joecool said...

The system is the reason why most business builders lose money. The system costs money and frankly. the system is highly ineffective.

Joecool said...

So why do the vast majority of Amway IBOs make nothing or lose money? Signing up with Amway nearly assures that you will have less money than you started with.

Anonymous said...

Unless you are an effective salesmen, then it is difficult to sell amway products.

Joecool said...

Yes, because the prices are not competitive. And the products are generic in nature but premium in price.

Anonymous said...

As long as the system profits from you, they don't mind giving IBO a bad advice, dangerous advice, risky advice and illegal advice.

Joecool said...

Yes upline will give any advice - and hold downline accountable for it. LOL

Anonymous said...

Even in the meeting, when they say that Amway is distant #5. It's not what they practiced. What they really do is to prioritize Amway as the first and foremost #1 in their life. Family, Job and kids are distant last.

Joecool said...

Yes, vertical alignment. God #1, Spouse #2, Kids #3, Family #4, Amway #5. But funny how it's attend "all" meetings. All means all. Never mind church, your anniverssary or kids birthdays and things, attend all Amway meetings and functions. Bunch of BS.

Anonymous said...

That's your thoughts, as long as they are loyal to their business & before buying from other business buy from their own , I don't see them loosing money.. Infact if you study the business model carefully the opportunity starts where the options for con-Sumer ends.

Joecool said...

Buying from your own business is BS. When you buy from Amway, you are a customer of Amway. They make the profits and then give you some chump change back to make you think you are running a business.

Anonymous said...

So you don't see them loosing money then how do you earn by buying from yourself?

Anonymous said...

So, you said:

"Upline is a business owner too, so if they make profit what's wrong, what you miss and not yet realize is Downline too can make profit & opportunity to make MORE than the Upline."

That's full of BS. Even if you earn more than the upline, your upline will split the profit with others who are the same level as you.

Uplines are cunning and they won't be happy with anyone surpassing them

Joecool said...

That's right. Name 1 or 2 people who went diamond and surpassed their upline diamond?

Joecool said...

You don't earn by buying from yourself. Say an Amway product wholesale is $10 and retail is $15. You pay $15 and you made $5 profit but the profit came out of your own pocket and Amway made money from your purchase.

And perhaps you attended a function to learn this BS so you lost even more money

Anonymous said...

I am not going to name, I personally know the folks who are Crown whereas their Sponsor is at Diamond level.
And numerous examples, the only person you can guarantee is yourself, how you think you can guarantee your Upline sponsor will stay in business?.. Everyone has to have a strong WHY about why they want to build their business leveraging the platform Amway offers to everyone.

Anonymous said...

Think when you buy similar products(though they don't come close to cost per use, quality & value) from outside "retailers/wholesalers"-aka indirect distributors what you make? Or who make profit in that case-- a business owner...

You miss the business plan, profit is based on volume of products movement...so smart & intelligent people first do in their own business before they go to other business..

Anonymous said...

Got something for you & your readers so they get educated about what constitutes a pyramid scheme to what 's not-
http://www.worldofdirectselling.com/pyramids-in-10-questions/

Hope it clears their minds, as enlightened mind is an empowered mind.

Joecool said...

Thanks for the link!

Joecool said...

Like I said. Nobody can name a few people who went diamond and surpassed their upline diamond.

Anonymous said...

That means everything they say is just a claim.

Joecool said...

Just like nobody has named a single person who went diamond and walked away so they can drink mojitos on a beach all day while cash rolls into their bank accounts.

Anonymous said...

Achievemagazine.com will provide you & your readers some information about NA Market, other regions have similar publications too...
It depends on people, if they have an open mind to learn & grow via this opportunity or not.

Joecool said...

No matter how open your mind is, you still won't succeed in Amway. And achieve magazine tells you nothing about who sponsored who. This is a strawman argument.

Anonymous said...

You succeed in your business and that's a choice each I in IBO make, platform is same...

So you don't get the plan ... After a distributor becomes a platinum (aka Direct Distibutor), the name of the active sponsor is no longer mentioned, check the digital publications and they have name of sponsor mentioned upto platinum level...

Joecool said...

Succeeding in Amway is not a choice. It's a myth.

Anonymous said...

As a fellow entrepreneur once said--"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right."--Henry Ford....
It's each "I" individual thinking that determines their future, For you it might be a myth, not for the growing community of entrepreneurs who work together across the globe.
The role of the "tools" is to empower IBO's to Believe if others can do it, so can you ("You are in business for yourselves BUT not by yourself" & "People Helping People Help Themselves"-- these are powerful words on which the business grew last 50 plus years & will continue to grow ) , as platform remains the same, tools are same too, it's each "I" Faith, Belief & Work Ethics that are variables...and those who have successfully gone before you share that via associations & other means.

Joecool said...

Anonymous, nice rhetoric, but total BS. Even if everyone in Amway "thought they could", it still cannot happen because the system is designed that way. A platinum usually has 100 or more downline. So whenever a new platinum emerges, you have about 100 people who aren't. Thus it's true in Amway that there is only so much room at the top. Your thoughts and attitude doesn't change the math and the reality.

Anonymous said...

Because you are only limited by your thoughts... It's about Opportunity... All 100 have same opportunity as the person who becomes platinum.... Leadership Driven Business..

What you keep missing is you are in your own business on platform Amway provides, not just in business WITH Amway , as I mentioned earlier some of the businesses you shop outside anyway are also part of our extended affiliate ecosystem in NA market, so we beat any deal you get as con-Sumer.
Any of your readers or you interested to learn more & DIRECT, can go to offical website (have links at the bottom too to explain what we offer) and social media channels for the community of entrepreneurs working together.

Joecool said...

You are limited to your thoughts? Right, so if I think I can play in the NFL, my only limitation is my thought, even if I'm undersized and can't run?

All have the same opportunity? Yes, just like in a lottery where one wins and the rest lose. But you had the same opportunity.

You are being fooled. You are not in business with Amway. You are a commission only salesman for Amway. Every purchase you make, Amway profits from. There's no reciprocation. You only get a small bonus if you meet various quotas but Amway is still the winner.