Friday, June 9, 2017

The Obvious About Amway?

It is my feeling that most IBOs and prospects are likely nice people, motivated to want more out of life, and willing to do some work. Sadly for most, their experience in Amway is making nothing or losing money, likely because of the tools and functions that are promoted by the upline. I applaud IBOs and prospects for being willing to do something to make more money for their families, but all too many IBOs and prospects simply miss the obvious red flags and get sucked into a system where they cannot win.
I was an IBO at one time. I had ambitions and dreams, many of which I accomplished after leaving Amway.

Let me explain. If you buy some lottery tickets, you do so hoping to win but you know realistically that your chances of of winning the big jackpot or some significant prize is slim to none. While Amway isn't a game of chance, your chance of success is very slim. We know that many IBOs sign up and do nothing. We know that many IBOs may try but end up quitting very soon after starting. We know that few IBOs ever last more than a few years. Knowing that, you can assess that long term sustainable success in Amway is difficult at best.

But it's obvious to those in the know when you see the "plan". If you see one person become a platinum with 78 downline (in the common 6-4-2 plan), and you know that many do nothing or do a little and quit, then you know that you need to have maybe 200 IBOs go thru your business to become a platinum, and who knows how hard it will be to maintain that level. My former sponsor was a platinum but never hit Q12 and often fell below 7500 PV. Last I heard, he was 2500 PV after nearly 20 years in the business. Factoring in tools and business expenses, I believe the net losses of my former sponsor is staggering. And my former sponsor was able to personally sponsor over 100 downline.

The next obvious thing that IBOs and prospects miss is the functions. If you've been around or attended functions, you'll likely see an audience of thousands with one or a couple of speakers. That will probably never change. And if you can assess that situation, you can see that only 1 in thousands will ever reach thet coveted diamond level. And out of those who reach the level, there's a good chance that they cannot maintain the level for the reasons I have outlined above.

While Amway apologists claim that many people sign up to get products and to make a few dollars a month, I think that is total BS. Have any of you ever seen a presentation where your option was a buyers club membership or where you make a $100 a month? I saw yachts and mansions and talk about the diamond being financially free (a myth). To those who see thru the deception, the reality is obvious. It's just a matter of whether you see it or not.


Anonymous said...

I understand your issue here joe; however, it's hard to motivate a team when everyone is doing the bare minimum. Doing and teaching only to do 150PV is devastating to the newest IBO. An simple fix we have done is 1st: sold more products than the bare minimum of 50PV(which is approx $150) and bought products that we actually use on a month to month basis through our business rather than at the store such as cleaning supplies, laundry supplies, vitamins, energy drinks, etc. Any IBO that teaches their downline to buybuybuy all their PV & expect a paycheck is a huge disgrace to this company because you don't make money by buying your PV, you make money by servicing customers with the products we have. Yes, we also have overheads & other accounted for expenses to factor in as well, an simple fix for this is to map out a game plan on how much needs to be sold to customers to meet financial expectations. Once again, I understand your issue with this company, but I don't think it's Amway's fault for the losses you've accumulated over the years with the company, I can guarantee the plan you must of had mapped out didn't work. I've meet people at our functions(btw I'm apart of LTD and we have 18 couple diamonds in counting)that sell a ton and is making close to 2k monthly without a team.

Joecool said...

Thanks for your comments. Even if you manage to sell products and make your PV bonus without buying all the products yourself, the voicemail, cds, books and functions still guarantee that you operate at a net loss.

Anonymous said...

You obviously don't get it Joe, the person who you are responding to said, they have 18 Diamond legs. That would make them a Crown IBO. I highly doubt they operate at a net loss.
Ps; their 4% leadership bonus is going to 6% this coming September. That's a 50% raise. When was the last time you heard of a job giving a 50% raise? Just sayin'
You really need to find something better to do with your time besides bashing Amway.

Joecool said...

Anonymous, I get it. First off, I don't believe for a second that a crown is commenting on my blog. And number two, even if diamonds and higher ups make money, their downline is littered with dead bodies and people who are losing money each month chasing a dream that will never materialize for them. That's why I oppose Amway. Not because "nobody" makes money, but the few that do, make mone from the pockets of their downline. That is indisputable.

Anonymous said...

Joe, I use to trash the Amway geeks online. Noticed in parts of Canada a group growing. The Whalen's are now edc. Just wondering what you think of it? For me I'm not into scamming people or selling religion. Surprised they have taken off

Nathan Hale said...

The point that anonymous is trying to make is that everyone's success is determined by their actions and attitude. (Also apart of LTD and there are 18 diamond couples in our system, not all are personally sponsored by the founders of LTD). Yes there are people who have net loss, and some people come and go, as with any business in the world. The thing that Amway and more importantly the training system (LTD, BWW, ect) is that the atmosphere for success is provided.

Amway is honestly just a manufacturer with a compensation plan. If you started your own business with just having a product that you sell, without any know how, experience or anything, you would expect someone to fail wouldn't you? That is where the training system comes into play, people who have gone ahead, uplines that are there to better not only your finances but your life.

I have seen many people come and go through the Amway business, and even those that leave, say that Amway has taught them something about themselves or where they are in life (even you by writing this article have shown this to be true). Many more people have positive experiences even if they didn't make money. So basically in a nut shell, you had a bad experience so you want to see a bad seed on the internet about a successful 10+ billion dollar company. Instead of waisting time here, why don't you go out, back to your job, or your company or wherever you make a living and just quit complaining.

Joe2 or Joe3 said...

Joe, or Ray or you can call me Jay...
Just checked this blug. Heavy on the lug. 7 year itch. Face it, you quit like most things. That's ok, you be ok, once you get a recovery sponsor to run things by. You are eating up inside and will never forget what you saw. It will haunt you forever.

Anonymous said...

To Anonymous at 8:25 AM --

Do you actually believe that a Crown Diamond with 18 legs is going to show up at an anti-Amway website? Especially since it is the policy of all Amway up-line to tell members that they are forbidden to even consult the internet about Amway, much less take part in discussions about the company?

You give away your motive when you beg Joe Cool to stop writing his blog. You're scared shitless of what anti-Amway commentary and discussion are doing to your ability to recruit down-line.

Are YOU a Crown Diamond with 18 legs? I didn't think so. Tell us how much cash you've lost in Amway do far, if you have the honesty and courage to do so.

Anonymous said...

Sean --

Don't you see that what you say about gift-wrapped surprises could be said just as plausibly about a lottery ticket? You but the ticket, and then you wait in excited expectation to see if your number is announced as the winner.

What does any of that have to do with running a business?

Joecool said...

I really don't care if the Whalens went EDC or if someone went crown. Did anyone.notice that Amway sales are down about 25% over the last three years? Amway defenders were bragging about Amway doing 11.8 billion in sales and in 2016, Amway was down another 7% to 8.8 billion. Amway is reaching market saturation and while that doesn't mean Amway will collapse, it means that the good times are slowing down. People are realizing that Amway is a scam and the revenues back up my claim.

I do't care if someone went diamond or EDC or whatever. Greg Duncan was a triple diamond who went chapter 7 bankrupt in 2009. If there are new diamonds, all it means is they have hundreds if not thousands of downline losing money. Amway's own stats reveal how crappy of a business opportunity it it. The average income is $202 a month and that's after not counting people who did nothing. So out of those who try, they make an average of $202 and that includes crowns and diamonds. .26 or about 1 in 393 reach the Gold level where they might gross $1000 a month or so. After business expenses such as functions, I bet the golds operate at a loss.

This blog is probably the longest standing and still active blog that provides information about the Amway business and the systems so I can see why they would want me to quit. But I will be around for a while.

Anonymous said...

Look at "Nathan Hale" again, and notice the hidden agenda in his post. He wants to defend the absurd aspects of Amway, and -- more importantly -- get Joe Cool to stop writing this blog.

1. He says that "everyone's success is determined by their actions and attitudes." That's not always true -- some people fail in business because of larger economic factors beyond their control. Did the thousands of businesses that failed after the stock market crash of 1929 fail because of "the actions and attitudes" of their owners? How about businesses that failed because of unforeseen technological changes? Were blacksmiths and buggy-makers to blame for the collapse of their businesses after the invention of the automobile? Nathan Hale's entire mindset is corrupted by the poisonous MLM habit of thinking that all that matters is your "positive attitude" of "Think and grow rich."

2. He defends that Amway training systems (BWW, WWDB, Network, and all the other clones), while the fact is that these systems are nothing but methods of ripping off IBOs to purchase pointless CDs and tapes and books and CommuniKate and "function" tickets. If it's a "training system," Mr. Hale, why does it go on forever and forever? Why do your IBOs have to go on buying all this "training" crap for years? If any other business can train young beginners in a few weeks or months, why does Amway take decades to train people? Or are you trying to hide the fact that up-line gets rich off the tools scam?

3. Hale then goes on to make the fatuous claim that people who fail in Amway "have positive experiences even if they didn't make money?" HUH? What kind of bullshit is that, Mr. Hale? Do you go into a business enterprise for anything else except to make money? Are you living in a dream world? You don't invest money in a business to get "positive experiences."

4. The real purpose behind Hale's stupid post comes out in his last sentence. He begs Joe Cool to "stop wasting time" on this blog, and to "quit complaining." Why is it any concern of yours, Mr. Hale, what Joe Cool does with his time? Or are you simply enraged that Amway's business has collapsed by 25% as a result of all the anti-Amway blogs out there? Were you instructed by Ada, Michigan to come here and try to do some damage control?

I notice that a bunch of Amway defenders showed up her at one time. You can be pretty sure that this kind of attack was planned.

Keep on slugging, Joe Cool. These Amway freaks are obviously getting desperate.

Anonymous said...

Ambots, you are wasting time and money being on this blog.
Go read a book or show the plan to someone, that would be more productive for your "business"
By the way, how's your bank account looking?
I bet we all know.

Anonymous said...

Ambots come here because they can't resist a few glimpses of the Forbidden Truth.

Big Red One said...

I'm usually not one to reply to blogs, but this one caught my eye. I am one of those that came and went. What I loved the most is that everyone is mostly positively motivated. I followed the plan, can tell you the plan from memory. Did I win? NO I too lost money following the plan. Yes I taught others to purchase from their own store instead of shopping at Wal-Mart or other stores. The items that are sold are very expensive. Even the starter pack that gets a newbie started is pretty expensive. I have never bashed Amway, and am not doing so now. I simply contest that the information for a lot of the very lowest tier of the program is a lose lose. We spend money on products that are sometimes as much as 3 times the cost of the household budget and the goal is to teach these people to spend money to make money. A normal business is modelled to spend money to make money. You simply can't do that easily with this business and that is why most people drop out.