Upline Helps You?

Over the years, I have encountered many Amway IBOs and they often have a common theme. They trust their upline and in some cases, consider them mentors. Now in a business venture, it might be good to have a mentor or someone to guide you, but in the Amway opportunity, most of the upline mentors make money off those who they mentor. That is a major conflict of interest but IBOs simply fail to see it. Just about any "help" you receive results in compensation for someone upline. A mentor is not someone you compensate for their help. At least not to my way of thinking. Maybe a paid consultant is a better way to describe the upline/downline relationship.

When an IBO sees the plan in a big meeting or function, the speaker will often be built up as a financial guru, and possibly as an expert on how to succeed in Amway. An IBO may hear something about the trail was already blazed by upline and you just need to follow the trail. Don't re-invent the wheel, just copy what upline did. But as I have said many times before, duplication sounds easy and looks good on paper, but in real life, the vast majority of IBOs run into problems that they simply cannot overcome, such as the bad reputation that the Amway name has in the US. High prices for products don't help either. Sponsoring people is difficult and most IBOs never sponsor a downline.

What is troubling however, is that IBOs are taught to trust upline and do as they say (defacto requirement), but they are also taught that failure is their own shortcomings, even when they do exactly what upline told or advised them to do. It is also troubling that many uplines will tell their faithful followers that they need to purchase more and more tools (voicemail, cds, seminar tickets). In some cases, an upline may advise their downline to sacrifice basic family needs to buy these tools. I saw some IBOs who were advised to skip meals to buy a cd, or skip paying the mortgage to be able to attend the next big function. The results are devastating for some.

I might also add that as a newer IBO or prospect, you may have heard that "everyone starts at zero", or that it's a level playing field. It is not. As a new IBO, you will likely be in the 100 PV bracket. Since Amway pays out about 31% in bonuses, your upline(s) will split up about 28% in bonuses off your efforts while you get a 3%bonus. That doesn't sound very level to me. In addition, you as an IBO are paying for this privilege when you buy tools.

So each IBO should look at things objectively and see if your upline is actually helping you or simply helping himself by giving you advice that ends up in profit for himself with little or nothing for you.

Why People Believe In Amway?

Many IBOs cannot be convinced that Amway is not the best opportunity in the world, because they want to believe the lies/deception that is often used when they are recruited. They want to believe that 2-5 years of part time effort will result in lifelong residual income and that they will be traveling to the beaches of the world while cash keeps rolling in. They want to believe that they can ditch their (often) less than adequate jobs. They want to believe that a part time soap business will make all of this possible. The people (upline) who claim to have everyone's best interest at heart will sell them a proven system of success and all they need to do is follow the steps to success.

Many people sign up for Amway and do absolutely nothing. They may not ever order or try products. But these folks do not complain about Amway and the expenses they may incur are minimal. Most do not even bother to seek a refund on their starter kit. It makes me wonder why these folks even bother to sign up. Although, there are stories of people being pestered into registering. Anyway, the part where this business gets dicey is when people register and do put in an earnest effort, only to end up with financial losses. Sometimes the losses are in the tens of thousands of dollars. You get squeezed for a couple of hundreds of dollars a month and after a few years of effort, you can find yourself drowning in debt, even after doing everything your upline advised. The fact that uplines don't disclose their business financials speaks volumes. Former uplines who have come forward have shown that most of their income was from hawking standing orders and seminars, and not from Amway sales as they would imply.

I bought into the hype at one time. I believed the lies. I believed my upline that no profit was made from tools. At the time I was an IBO, I too, wanted to believe that I could work part time for 2-5 years and ditch my job. That I would retire at the age of 35 and live in luxury forever. I wanted to believe that. But having reached the 4000 PV level, the precipice of platinum, I also realized that I had no profit. I sat down and did the math and realized that they would be little profit at platinum. I cam to the realization that a second job would have suited me better. I finally quit when I realized this, along with my upline wanting total control of my life. But I hung in as long as I did because I wanted to believe that Amway would be the vehicle that delivered my financial freedom.

Having dropped out of Amway, my life quickly got back to normal. Friends that I had avoided returned to my life. My disposable income increased and my cash flow was positive once again, now that I was no longer obligated to purchase tools. I also noticed years later, that the same old leaders on stage were still working as hard as ever, and none of them had taken the option to retire and walk the beaches of the world. Perhaps these leaders also want to - or have to believe in Amway because they have already invested too much time and effort to call it quits and start something else. I wanted to believe, but the fact is that people were not succeeding. People were not getting free. What I saw was home foreclosures, bankruptcies and financial struggles made worse for people because of Amway and the tool systems. And apparently, these same issues apply to the diamonds. Do your research and you will likely find the same conclusion that I did. That Amway is an impossible dream.

I Can Earn More Than My Sponsor?

One of the silly defenses that Amway supporters use to defend their business is that it must not be a pyramid or it must be legitimate because you have the opportunity to earn more than your sponsor. While many downlines in fact do earn more than their sponsors, it's likely because about half of all IBOs quit in a year or less those who stay for even a year, when you factor in the business expenses for those who are on tools, the reality of suffering business losses also causes people to exit the business. It's not that hard to earn more than people who quit. But even at that, someone who quits is often better off than IBOs who continue because those on the system are losing money.

An IBO at the 100 PV level will earn about $10 in bonus income from Amway. If they are attending functions, buying standing orders and voicemail, they will operate at a loss. Thus, unless their business grows each month (highly unlikely, even if they do as upline advises) then they will suffer losses each month and those who quit will be better off. It is why I have stated that doing nothing or staying home and watching television can honestly be better options than joining Amway and the systems such as WWDB, N21 or BWW. It is why reasonable people can conclude that working for minimum wage, even a few hours a week makes you better off than joining Amway and the systems.

The defense that someone can out earn their upline is silly. The true benchmark of this statement would be for a new guy to start a business, and in 2-5 years, out earn someone like Bill Britt. It will never happen because upline has direct influence over the fortunes of their downline, even at the diamond level. It is why you have seen diamonds quit, or split from their upline to start their own training systems. They cannot affects change from downline, without upline consent, thus the breaking away from their "mentors" or leaders. At times there have even been lawsuits over the tools income. Do people really sue their mentors? Don't diamonds teach you that suing people is wrong? That you don't get something for nothing?

You can surely out earn your sponsor. All it takes is for your sponsor to quit. However, your sponsor quitting might mean you don't out earn your sponsor. See my example above. Taking losses is not out earning someone. Keep in mind that everyone in Amway is equal. You are all unpaid commissioned Amway salespeople, bound to Amway's terms and agreements. You don't own your downline. You don't really own much as an independent business owner. You can out earn your sponsor, but that means squidly diddly when your sponsor makes nothing or takes a loss. Come back and chirp when you out earn your upline diamond. Do I hear crickets chirping now? :-)

Instead Of A Job, Join Amway And Work For Free?

What happens to many unsuspecting people is they join Amway thinking they will attain wealth and riches by "owning their own business", but in reality, they have basically become unpaid commissioned employees of Amway. You don't get health insurance, vacation, or any fringe benefits. You get to work unlimited hours and you get commission by moving products. You can leverage your commissions by increasing this unpaid sales force by sponsoring others into your downline.

Some people do succeed employing this method, but you will need to be an elite recruiter in order to get people to sell Amway products for no salary. You are also handicapped right from the start because past IBO behavior has soiled Amway's reputation in the US and Canada. This point is supported by the fact that Amway's sales appear to be growing the most in foreign countries and not in North America. Seems that everyone I know has been at one time, involved with Amway (and had a bad experience) or knows of someone who had a bad experience (i.e. tricked into attending a meeting, or deceived in some way about the opportunity or the products).
Even if you are a great recruiter, your likelihood of attaining Amway success (emerald or higher) is a tiny fraction of 1%. And for those who attain Amway success, they have great difficulty in sustaining that level. It is why there are hoards of "former" emeralds, diamonds and platinums.

You may hear about how Amway was found "legal" by the FTC or that Amway is #1 in online health and beauty sales. All of this may be true, but it doesn't change the fact that an IBO is basically an unpaid commissioned Amway salesperson. You absorb all the business expenses, pay for your own training, and you get to share your commission with layers of upline (more middlemen), some of whom do not help your business, and some who don't even know you exist. It's a great deal for Amway but not for IBOs. You move their products and absorb the expenses and in doing so and they pay out a commission. As for any awards or credits Amway receives, it's great for Amway, but you are an IBO - an independent business owner. You are not Amway.

Bottom line - if you can get people to work for free, you can find numerous opportunities to get rich that are much better and more lucrative than Amway. :-)

The Amway Iceberg?

I was in discussion on another forum and a comment was made about Amway being an iceberg, because you see the shiny clean ice on the top but you do not see the majority of the iceberg. Or in other words, the diamonds show you the fancy suits, jewelry, care, mansions, jets and what you don't see is the financial carnage that takes place in their downlines at times. My former upline would tell audiences that they could skip meals to buy more standing orders because you might hear the one thing that could make your business explode.

Sure, on standing orders, you won't hear too much of the unethical and "wrong" teaching, because some of this is monitored by Amway, but it's the night owls and smaller group meetings where the real teaching is disseminated. This is where you are told to practically sell your soul to achieve in Amway. This is where the teaching comes in where you should be purchasing excessive amounts of tools in order to succeed. This is where you are told to never miss a function unless it's for your own funeral. A newbie or casual observer won't see these things but if you ever commit to becoming a business builder, this is likely to become your world.

You don't see the backstage at functions and meetings. Former rubies and platinums have made commentary about the diamonds literally laughing about how gullible the downline are. You don't see the where the cash collected at the meetings and functions go. There had been some past comments about literally, suitcases of cash leaving the premises. If your upline has a mansion and a fleet of nice cars, it's likely that your tools money played a significant part in your diamond obtaining it.

It's a simple conclusion. The tools have a higher markup than Amway products and have fewer beneficiaries to split up the bonus. A $7.00 Amway product might cost $3.00 or so to make and the rest will be bonus money split up by the layers of IBOs. Whereas a $7.00 cd might take 50 cents to produce and only platinums and higher receive any compensation from this source of income. But rank and file IBOs rarely ever see a true and transparent picture of this business. It is shrouded in secrecy, just like the underside of an iceberg. I challenge IBOs to be real businessmen and women and ask upline the tough questions about where the money is made. Do not accept rhetoric and anecdotal stories. In real business, schedule C business tax returns are the normal way for verification of business income. If you are going to "invest" your hard earned money into the system to the benefit of upline, you should demand this information.

Would any of you purchase a conventional business from someone without proof that it is profitable? Why would an Amway business be any different?

Becoming An Ambot?

Sometimes it happens to the nicest of people and it often happens slowly and subtly. These are the signs that you are becoming indoctrinated and you are likely annoying your loved ones at this point. I hope this helps:

*You're driven to recruit everyone you know. You may even resort to deception or outright lies to get people to meetings. Before you know it, your family and friends avoid you like the plague.

*You're encouraged to develop an unreasonable, irrational zeal for the products. Even so far as to justify the quality of toilet paper or to call the products prestigious. You may even argue the quality of energy drinks or about phyto-nutrients, something you may not even know about.

*A whole bunch of demands, promises, subtle threats of failure if you don't try hard enough are made in the promotional material and motivational seminars. i.e. If you quit, you are a loser destined to die broke and unhappy.

*Because the system is touted as the way you're going to make yourself fantastically rich, you're under pressure to drop any conflicting or competing interests such as your bowling league or golf club. Nothing else in life has importance except for the quest of financial freedom. All activities in your life must enhance your Amway business and have an affect on your financial future.

*Your upline soon becomes your most trusted friend. Your thoughts and feelings are shaped in part by the cds, meetings and functions.

Do you recognize these behaviors? Hopefully you aren't displaying these behaviors.

What Is CORE?

Analysis Of CORE?

Breakdown of CORE and why it doesn’t work. Here are the CORE steps. Some groups may have variations of CORE, but this is generally what many groups use:

1 - Show the Plan (10-15 per month)
2 - Retail the Products (10 customers @10 PV each)
3 – Tapes/cds
4 - Books
5- Functions (attend all)
6 - Accountability
7 - Counsel with Upline (Be teachable!)
8 - Buy 100% of your own products
9 – Communikate

Many upline will tell you that your success is nearly 100% guaranteed if you follow these steps for 2-5 years. Some Amway enthusiasts will tell you that 6 months of this activity will nearly assure you of a platinum level business. Certain steps are within the IBO’s control, such as reading every day and listening to cds, and attending functions. It is also easy enough to be accountable, counsel with upline, buy your own products, and use KATE (voicemail).

Here’s where an IBO’s efforts will break down. Showing the plan and retailing products. And remember, if you cannot do these steps then you are not considered “CORE” and your upline will likely tell you that it is your own fault and that you simply haven’t been CORE, therefore you did not achieve success. There is some truth in this but let me expose the system in a different angle.

Amway has a spotty reputation in the US. I don’t think anyone can dispute this fact. Therefore, for the vast majority of people, being able to show the plan 10-15 times per month is a nearly impossible task. If you are able to do this, you are a really good salesman or a good liar. In this scenario, the IBO is already successful, but not because of CORE, but simply because the IBO has the gift of being able to convince people into seeing the plan. But for many IBOs, they may contact hundreds of people and not be able to get anyone to see the plan. Even IBOs who follow upline advice on how to contact will probably not be able to show 10-15 plans per month. Thus this IBO, who is doing the work, will not be able to succeed. The system will blame the IBO, but the reality is that the IBO has too big of a disadvantage to overcome.

Secondly, with high prices (on average) and with a spotty reputation, most IBOs are unable to retail products. Amway itself has admitted that less than 4% of Amway products are sold to customers (non IBOs). Thus most IBOs are unable to sell products, therefore they are not CORE, therefore upline will blame the IBO for failure..

What if an IBO contacts 1000 people and cannot get 10 people to see the plan? Upline will claim that IBO is not CORE and therefore it is personal failure of the IBO. IMO, the only reason why upline can claim that CORE works is because in order to do the CORE steps consistently, you have to already be at a certain level of success. The vast majority of IBOs cannot and will never be able to reach that level.

That is the myth and the deception that many uplines will use to attract recruits. That each IBO can do the CORE steps. When only a fraction of 1% ever reach the level of platinum or higher, the numbers strongly support what is written here. Apologists are welcome to try and prove me wrong, but they can't.

Amway University?

One of the really dumb things that some Amway defenders do is to compare the teaching of WWDB or Network 21 (for example) to a real and legitimate college education. Some people even go as far as to encourage young people to skip or drop out of college so they can focus on Amway. That makes me really upset to know that these upline leaders so so greedy for a dollar that they would encourage a motivated young student to basically risk their future to build a business where you have a fraction of 1% of making any real money and possibly less than that percentage of keeping and maintaining it.

There is plenty of documentation available to show that college grads earn more than non college grads. I believe the difference on average was about $1000 a month more in favor of college graduates. While not all college students graduate, the rate is about 50%. College grads also earn about an average of $50,000 or so. According to Amway, the average IBO earns $115 a month or less than $1500 a year. The Amway earnings are gross, thus IBOs on the system (functions, standing orders) are probably ending up with a net loss. Try feeding your family with zero dollars.

While there may be some value in some of the material provided from upline to downline, it doesn't seem to translate into net profits. Thus an intangible benefits an IBO might receive from his/her Amway education can likely be found elsewhere, without having to run a losing business. Imagine a scenario where two people apply for a job. One candidate has on their resume, a degree from the University of Washington. The other one says they have four years of education from Worldwide Dream Builders. Which candidate is more likely to get a serious look? Do IBOs believe that the stuff they learn at functions is substantial enough to compete with a real and accredited college? If so, then they are likely to get laughed out of the room if the need to compete for a job.

Or how about using the 6-4-2 plan to get a business loan from a bank? What do IBOs learn that can be applied to something outside of the rose colored world of Amway? I find that uplines who get young people to funnel their education dollars towards WWDB or some other system instead of finishing college is a crime. I hope that information seekers find this information before they get persuaded into believing some of the lies told by some upline leaders. I find it ironic though, that many of these same leaders send their kids to college. Hypocrites?

What's Your Amway Business Worth?

Many many people see the Amway plan, sign up in the hopes that Amway income will help them fulfill their dreams and that they will walk away from their jobs and collect lifelong residual income while walking the beaches of the world. Sadly, most IBOs will never even sponsor a single downline. These IBOs may continue in the business for a while but will eventually quit when they see the writing on the wall. Someone mentioned on another forum that people who want to work 2-5 years and do nothing thereafter are probably lazy and therefore, are not capable of achieving in anything, much less in Amway. And in reality, in what business can you really "walk away" after 2-5 years and prosper?

But wait, you're an "independent business owner". So instead of quitting, why not sell your Amway business? I wonder if any IBOs actually think about what their business is worth? I mean a diamond could sell their business and live large and happily ever after right? Here's some food for thought. Why are there instance of diamonds quitting or resigning from Amway? Why would they just quit when they could either walk away and collect an income "forever" or sell the business? I mean do IBOs ever stop and think about this? It is an honest and serious question that should get some consideration.

I believe diamonds quit and resign because their business is worth very little or nothing. And most Amway businesses do not even generate a net profit. For IBOs who are seriously pondering on this very important message, try looking up this topic in Amway's rules. There are very complicated steps to be taken when selling your Amway business as each person upline must be offered ownership (To the best of my understanding). This process can go on for a long time and the attrition of your business could render it worthless before you can find a buyer, if you have a buyer at all. Also, if you quit, the downline in your group would be surrendered to the immediate upline anyway. So why would your upline want to buy your business?

So IBOs, I ask you. What is your Amway business worth? You don't own your downline. They are independent owners like yourself. You should not have inventory, employees or some warehouse storage complex. Aside from the ability to add downline volume to your own, your Amway business likely has very little value in the real world. So IBOs and prospects, think about it for a minute. What is the value of your Amway business?

Getting "Rich" In Amway?

One of the things upline used to say was that Amway is not "get rich quick". I suppose they say this because most people would more likely think scam if they promoted it that way. But when you stop and think about it, 2-5 years, build it right and you have will-able, residual income for life while walking the beaches of the world? That's not get rich quick? Or is it more of a disclaimer so that the opportunity doesn't sound "too good to be true"? One thing is for sure, even if uplines tell you that it's not get rich quick, it's obvious that IBOs think they will eventually get rich, even if it's not quick.

What most IBOs don't figure out quickly enough, is that they are unlikely to even make a profit, let alone getting rich in Amway. How many of these people exist? Where are all of these retired Amway IBOs who built a business in 2-5 years and then walked away from their business and will be collecting a significant residual income for many years to come afterwards? I don't know of a single person who has done this and none of the Amway defenders and zealots I have encountered over the years has been able to supply this information either.

I can acknowledge that Amway is a business opportunity and will definitely take some work to be able to achieve something. But thinking realistically, what business could you actually be able to walk away in 5 years and not work again? More than likely that business doesn't exist, whether it's Amway or not. Say you opened a conventional business. There wouldn't be many scenarios where you could walk away after a number of years. The business would still require work and maintenance. But form some reason, people are mislead to believe that you can do this in Amway where there is a high attrition rate and where your business can only expand by person to person.

Sadly, many of the people who are attracted to the Amway opportunity are often young people looking to get more out of life. They are often ambitious but may lack a means to gain wealth, thus the appeal of the opportunity is there. Unfortunately, these nice young people are more likely to end up channeling their hard earned dollars into standing orders and functions which will almost guarantee that they end up with a net loss. The bottom line is that not only is Amway not get rich quick. The more likely scenario is that your involvement with Amway will very likely be not getting rich at all. A net loss is the most likely result. I challenge anyone to try and prove me wrong on this point

Bigfoot, UFOs and Amway Retirees?

I was watching a show on Discovery channel the other night about Bigfoot/Sasquatch. It was followed by a show about evidence of UFOs. It made me start to think about these phenomena. It seems like everyone has heard about or knows something about Sasquatch (Big foot) and/or UFOs. There are many documentaries showing pictures and evidence of both, but to date, there is no bonafide evidence that these things exist. You'd think that a body or bones of a Sasquatch would turn up somewhere, sooner or later, or we would find compelling evidence of a spaceship from another galaxy.

It sounds just like stories of people who built a diamond ship, then "walked away" from their businesses, retired in the lap of luxury and did nothing while the money kept rolling in. I heard numerous scenarios about this happening, but looking back, all the diamonds kept working and since Joecool left the business, the diamond either kept working, or quit or got terminated. But I never heard anyone name some higher up Amway pin who built a business, and then walked away from it to travel the beaches of the world while hundreds of thousands of dollars kept rolling in. Many have heard about it but nobody seems to be able to name any of these folks. I mean after over 50 years in existence, you'd think some of these folks would exist, especially when it seems to be a selling point of the business for many AMOs.

It is my opinion that Sasquatch, UFOs and retired Amway's diamonds (with significant Amway income) are non existent. If these folks existed, there should be at least some shred of evidence of it. The lack of evidence indicates to me that it is either non existent or so rare that nobody can display bonafide proof. I mean there aren't any T-Rexs roaming the earth anymore but fossil evidence proves that they existed at one time.

Keeping in mind that the Amway business has a high attrition rate, coupled with low sales to non IBOs and you can easily conclude that residual and significant income is nearly impossible. An Amway business that is left alone will deteriorate like a sandcastle does as the waves wash it away. You (in theory) could possible walk away from an Amway business for a while and collect some income, but you won't be collecting enough income to live the "diamond lifestyle" as portrayed by diamonds in their functions and open meetings. I'm not even sure that active diamonds can comfortably afford that lifestyle even when building their businesses. There is ample evidence to support my claim. Diamonds losing homes to foreclosure, former diamonds revealing secrets about their income. If you really believe you can walk away from your Amway business and collect untold wealth, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. :-)

Pyramids Belong In Egypt?

Let me start out by saying that Amway is a perfectly legal company as far as I know, and therefore I am not saying or implying that Amway is illegal. But I believe that the way Amway businesses are run with AMO guidance, are run like illegal pyramids. In most groups, you will have the lowest level IBOs efforts and tool purchases being responsible for the upline bonuses and tools income. Many many IBOs are fooled into thinking that the ability to surpass your upline or that you don't get paid to recruit downline makes this a good deal. But this makes me wonder why IBOs are recruiting like their lives depended on it.

Unless you have a very very rare group where actual product sales to non IBOs in sufficient to cover the costs of running you business, functions and all, then it is true that the lower level IBO's jobs are likely the source of income for the uplines. How many groups are like that? None that I have ever seen or know of. In fact, how often do IBOs even sell enough products to cover their expenses for even one month out of the year? The groups that teach "buy from yourself" end up doing the most financial damage to their groups because the downline's expenses are then covered exclusively from the downlines jobs, bank accounts, or drive the downline into debt.

I've seen and discussed group structures in forums many times and I can only conclude that tool sales wipe out what little profits/bonuses some of the downlines might receive. Only when an IBO is able to sponsor enough downline to absorb the losses for them will they finally breal even or make a little profit. I would guess that the 4000 PV level or platinum is where a dedicated CORE IBO would breal even and possibly start to make a real profit. But we also know that most platinum groups have 100 or more IBOs in order to generate 7500 PV. Thus we can also conclude that less than 1% of IBOs make a net profit. The only way IBOs can earn a net profit at a lower level is to avoid purchasing tools and to avoid paying for functions. Those who get involved in a system such as WWDB or N21 almost guarantee that they will have a net loss.

Sure, my job may have a pyramid structure with the CEO making the most money. But the difference is that in a company, even the lowest paid employee still receives a paycheck and has money at the end of the month. The same claim cannot be made by IBOs. For these reasons, I believe Amway to be a legal pyramid. IBOs and information seekers are free to participate, but I challenge them to sit down and really analyze their ability to make a net profit. In most cases, the analysis won't be favorable. If you are in the US in particular, you may have great difficulty in even being able to discuss "Amway" without getting strange looks your way from others. Good luck in whatever you decide

2-5 Years To What?

One of the things I heard as an Amway IBO, and is still promoted is the concept of a 2-5 year plan to financial freedom. As a prospect, 2-5 years of hard work in your spare time sounds reasonable. After all, anyone can work an extra 12 hours a week for a couple of years with that kind of reward awaiting you at the end. The sad reality is that you are likely to suffer 2-5 years of financial losses without getting any closer to financial freedom.

When Amway morphed into Quixtar, a very relevent question was how many diamonds were "quixtar only", meaning they signed up in 1999 when quixtar was implemented and then became diamonds in the advertised 2-5 years. As far as I know, there were very few (if any) new diamonds. The new diamonds that were named all seemingly came from other countries, not the US or Canada. Even now, my former LOS (WWDB) is touting "double eagle rubies" which is not a recognized achievement by Amway (as far as I know), and there is no assurance that achieving such a level makes an IBO profitable.

Even today, I do not see a stead stream of new diamonds emerging from Amway. If the 2-5 year plan actually worked, there would be new diamonds constantly emerging. Instead, my former LOS (WWDB), actually has fewer diamonds now than back in my IBO days. And of those diamonds who remain, some of them had home foreclosed and it also appears that at least a few of them ran into some financial difficulties. Make me wonder what a diamond's finances actually look like. I suspect many of them live in debt, especially if they flaunt the "diamond lifestyle", which is probably not sustainable on diamond income as reported by Amway.

So while it might be possible to achieve diamond in 2-5 years (some have done it), but tens of millions have tried. It is much more likely that you will win the lottery (provided you have a ticket) than it is likely that you will join Amway and go diamond. It is also unlikely that people in the US and Canada who join will go diamond in the advertised 2-5 years. The 2-5 year plan is not promoted by Amway, but by the LOS leaders. I believe it is a hoax and the numbers back up my claim. You are much more likely to be better off working part time for 2-5 years and saving and investing for your future. If not, you will end up with 2-5 years of losing money on functions and standing orders.

As many Amway leaders will state: Look at the fruit on the tree. In the US and Canada, the trees are bare.

What Is A "Millionaire" Mentality?

A comment left by an anonymous site visitor:

"I love Amway. I just don't understand why people have to be negative about it. I don't hurt or steal from anyone yet I make money. I'm not a millionaire as of yet but working towards that goal. It's called "millionaire mentality". Joecool you will never succeed with penny mentality."

Joecool's commentary:

Most diamonds do not have a millionaire mentality. If you see how they spend money and how they flaunt excessive wealth, I see people who could win the power ball lottery and wind up broke. They might earn a nice income (even if it may come by lying and deceiving), but they spend it all, and possibly more by portraying the diamond lifestyle. In my opinion, the diamond lifestyle as portrayed in functions such as "dream night" are not sustainable For this reason, we are now seeing evidence of this such as a triple diamond who participated in chapter 7 bankruptcy proceedings, diamonds losing homes to foreclosures. We are seeing diamonds selling their mansions. Sure, they might be downsizing or liquidating their assets, but if these homes have been paid in cash as they claim, why sell them in a bad real estate market? Why not wait a few years?

In the past, I have posted some articles showing the traits and characteristics of millionaires. Many of these articles cite saving, investing, and living below your means. Many wealthy people drive regular everyday cars and live in the suburbs. They don't commonly have porsches, and jaguars. And for the record, the average diamond income, as reported by Amway, isn't all that much when you factor in business expenses and taxes. So why do diamonds try to show off wealth?

I believe diamonds show off wealth because it is a way to attract recruits. Because the Amway opportunity has a high turnover rate, nobody can reasonably "walk away" from their business and have cash rolling in for long. Attrition would eat away your business in a matter of days or weeks. It is why I believe diamonds do not walk away from their businesses, because they can't afford to. The business requires constant attention or it will crumble faster than stake cookies.

Most IBOs are simply fooled into thinking they are developing into having a millionaire mentality. An honest question for IBOs. How do you even know if your upline diamond is a millionaire? Anyone, even a broke guy can wear a nice suit and show off pictures of mansions and sports cars. For that matter, how do you know if your upline diamond is currently qualified as a diamond? Amway doesn't release that information except for new pins.

In my opinion, diamond's displays of excessive wealth and luxury portrays something, but it's not the millionaire mentality.

Amway IBOs "Choose" Success?

Many IBOs seem to think that success in the Amway business or in other aspects of life is simply a choice. They mistakenly believe that you can actually choose to succeed or not. They apparently believe that persistence and choosing to win will eventually land them a premiere spot at diamond club. If that were truly the case, wouldn't we see hoards of new diamonds each and every year? Instead, we see one here and one there, and while there are a few new diamonds in the US every so often, we see others quitting, dropping out or leaving Amway for greener pastures. Make you wonder if the prize is worth pursuing in the first place.

But IBOs and information seekers should understand quite clearly. You cannot simply "choose" to win or succeed. In a football game, both sides can believe and choose to win, but still, only one can be the victor. In Amway, it is common for a platinum to have 100 to 200 downline. Thus to be a platinum, you need to be in the top one half to the top one fourth of one percent of IBOs. To be a diamond, you will need to have about 600 to 1200 downline IBOs, not counting the masses of IBOs who register and do nothing or register and do a little and quit. Only one in about ten to twenty thousand will ever reach diamond in North America.

Sure, IBOs may cite some touching story like "Rudy". Basically a nobody who dreamed of playing for Notre Dame. He busted his butt and did whatever it took to make the team and the movie ends with him getting in a game, making a sack and being carried off the field by his teammates in a blaze of glory. A great and inspiring movie. But what you don't see is the possible tens of thousands of young men who had the same dream, may have worked every bit as hard but circumstances and situations prevented them from achieving the same limited success. Uplines want you to think these kinds of stories can happen to everyone, but the fact is that there is only a little room at the top. If stories like Rudy were common, then there would have been nothing special about it. An elite athlete like a Michael Jordan or a Tiger Woods only comes along once or twice in a lifetime. It is like achieving diamond. It happens but it is a rare occasion, especially in North America where Amway appears to be shrinking instead of growing.

In the Amway business, many prospects and IBOs are motivated and driven to succeed. Many of them are fine young men and women who want more in life. But the vast majority of those who try will not achieve their dreams via the Amway opportunity no matter how hard they work and no matter how badly they want it. The reason is because there are too many variables that are not in direct control of the IBO. The Amway reputation in North America is spotty at best so sponsoring downline is nearly impossible. And when you can sponsor, chances are your downline will do little or nothing. Many new IBOs will work hard, but quit because they are faced with the challenges I just mentioned. And even if you can overcome the overwhelming odds, you still need to keeping working hard constantly to maintain the business, all for an unstable average diamond income of $146,995, which doesn't consider taxes, medical insurance and other perks you may receive at a job. All told, I believe the diamond income is not all it's cracked up to be when you consider the charade you must play to display the diamond lifestyle. Do the math and you will be able to see for yourself.

In the end, it seems as though the prize isn't as great as it seems, and the trail to success is one that most cannot endure. And even if you achieve diamond, you can lose it quite easily as others have discovered. The bottom line is that you cannot simply choose to succeed in Amway or any other endeavor. Good luck if you decide to attempt it anyway.

Do Amway IBOs Have Any Clues About Business?

http://riles52.blogspot.com/2011/05/if-you-kill-your-parents-its-your-own.html

Roger S. Campbell, et ux. v. Commissioner, TC Memo 2011-42

There were a couple of issues in this case around substantiation, but the main thing was a hobby loss question on Amway activities. I remember going to some Amway presentations and it is really shocking to me that people can actually lose money on something that sounds like such a good deal.

Petitioners did not conduct the Amway activity in a businesslike manner. Although they maintained a separate bank account for the activity and maintained records for certain aspects of it, petitioners never used these records as an analytical tool for improving profitability. Mrs. Campbell testified that she did not know whether the Amway activity was profitable in any given year until she completed petitioners' tax return for that year which, for 2 of the taxable years in issue, did not occur until almost 2 years later. It is a fair inference that petitioners' record keeping was directed more towards substantiating deductions on a tax return than assessing the profitability of the Amway activity.


Considering all the facts and circumstances, including especially the confusing state of petitioners' Amway records, we conclude that a substantial portion of the costs of goods sold respondent disallowed for 1998 and 1999 represents Amway purchases that petitioners withdrew from inventory for personal use or use in their other businesses. This commingling of the Amway merchandise, resulting in substantial inaccuracies in reported costs of good sold, is further evidence that petitioners' Amway activity was not conducted in a businesslike fashion. It also resulted in petitioners' claiming business deductions for personal expenditures.


Although petitioners have prior entrepreneurial experience and both operated other businesses concurrently, they had no experience with operating a direct marketing distributorship before they were recruited as Amway distributors. Petitioners obtained advice only from their upline distributors and other interested Amway individuals, persons who had a direct financial interest in the maximization of petitioners' sales volume, without regard to petitioners' profitability.

In view of the foregoing, petitioners have failed to prove that they carried on their Amway activity with the requisite objective of making a profit. Consequently, their deductions arising from the Amway activity are limited by section 183.

In the presentations it was always about you recruiting people who recruit people and so on. It always seemed that somebody somewhere had to be selling an awful lot of soap for the thing to work.

Amway Excuses?

One thing I heard when seeing the plan was how people justify their place in life. Or as the diamond said, "making excuses". I would guess that this is still tossed in when people are showing the plan to potential recruits. What the speaker said was that people justify their place in life so that they feel better that they are doing okay or doing better than others. One such statement was how public school was okay for me so it's perfectly okay for my kids. Whereas diamonds can send their kids to exclusive private schools perhaps?

Or how a man would tell his wife to look in the freezer if she wanted to go on an Alaskan cruise. This is called justification. Another point made was that a man might say he's doing better than so and so, or that they are "doing okay". After all, why just settle for okay when you can work for 2-5 years and then retire? Why not put in that effort? Why continue to justify yourself (make excuses) when you can just get it done? On the surface, this may sound sensible, but keep in mind that most people, even those who put in an extensive effort, will never get the promised financial rewards shown in the 2-5 year plan. Most of these people, even those who work hard, will end up with losses, some will end up with life damaging financial losses.

The really sickening part of the whole thing is that the upline will credit the insignificant amount of success in the business while placing failure upon the IBOs, even if they put in an earnest effort. While this may go unnoticed to most, what uplines are doing is justifying their own shortcomings and the crystal clear failure of the system to deliver what they promote. My understanding is that maybe 1 in 20,000 ever get to the level of diamond in the US/Canada. With such an incredible reward (retirement, lifelong residual income), why do so many quit before attaining their goal? Most IBOs who put in effort are hard working and persistent. Certainly not all those folks were lazy. The only reasonable conclusion is that the diamonds deceive people about the system's success rate and that the system doesn't work. Even an occasional diamond is not evidence of system success. The overwhelming failure rate paints a more accurate picture. Add in the high prices in the Amway catalogs and you have an additional impediment to success.

It certainly seems to me that it is the upline and system promoters who must justify and make excuses for their systems that have no bonafide unbiased evidence of success. All they have to offer is justifications and excuses, something they accuse others of doing. If you are new or thinking of joining, are you making money or are you making excuses that your upline taught you?

The Amway Business Is Not Sustainable?

One of the selling points of the Amway business is for people to do the work once and then reap financial benefits for life. But that simply does not happen for the vast majority of IBOs. The reason why most IBOs do not have a sustainable business is because their business is not based on sales to genuine customers with a genuine need. Most IBOs themselves will not buy Amway products once their affiliation to Amway is over. Amway products are generally priced higher than competitors because the Amway "bonus" is built into the price. Ultimately, IBOs wind up self consuming the majority of their own products and hoping to recruit others to do the same.

If you are an IBO doing your 100 PV monthly, then your only way to increase volume is to sponsor downline in hopes that they will also do their 100 PV as shown in the plan. And even if you are somehow able to accomplish this and sponsor a bunch of people as shown in the plan, chances are that many IBOs will "do nothing" and of the remaining, some will move 100 PV, but they will likely quit in one year or less. Because the vast majority of Amway IBOs make nothing or lose money, often because of the tools system, there is no motivation for most to continue in the business because there is no stream of income, but a stream of expenses that never ends.

In many or possible most cases, IBOs are only selling the Amway opportunity and not Amway products. They sell the possibility or hope that they will build a business, walk away and collect untold wealth for the rest of their lives. It isn't going to happen. Say for example, you sold 100 PV monthly on a consistent basis to customers. These customers will automatically go online and make purchases when they run out of their products. If you are lucky, they will also refer friends to make purchases. But most IBOs do not sell products, they are selling the opportunity. And upline uses your hopes and dreams to sell you tools. That's the real business of the diamonds.

That brings up the next point about why an Amway business is not sustainable for most. The products cost more than most other retailers. That will limit the potential for customers and referrals. Amway defenders like to cite quality issues, but most customers who shop online aren't familiar with Amway products and have no way to know whether Amway has quality products or not. That leaves them to decide based on prices. And Amway in general, costs much more than Walmart for the same or similar products. A tough sell indeed. And for those reasons, the Amway business is not sustainable.