The Unseen?

I was in discussion on another related forum and a comment was made about Amway being an iceberg, because you see the shiny clean ice on the top but you do not see the majority of the iceberg. Or in other words, the diamonds show you the fancy suits, jewelry, cars, mansions, jets and what you don't see is the financial carnage that takes place in their downlines at times. My former upline would tell audiences that they could skip meals to buy more standing orders because you might hear the one thing that could make your business explode. 

Sure, on standing orders, you won't hear too much of the unethical and "wrong" teaching, because some of this is monitored by Amway, but it's the night owls and smaller group meetings where the real teaching is disseminated. This is where you are told to practically sell your soul to achieve in Amway. This is where the teaching comes in where you should be purchasing excessive amounts of tools in order to succeed. This is where you are told to never miss a function unless it's for your own funeral. A newbie or casual observer won't see these things but if you ever commit to becoming a business builder, this is likely to become your world.

You don't see the backstage at functions and meetings. Former rubies and platinums have made commentary about the diamonds literall laughing about how gullible the downline are. You don't see the where the cash collected at the meetings and functions go. There had been some past comments about literally, suitcases of cash leaving the premises. If your upline has a mansion and a fleet of nice cars, it's likely that your tools money played a significant part in your diamond obtaining it.

It's a simple conclusion. The tools have a higher markup than Amway products and have fewer beneficiaries to split up the bonus. A $7.00 Amway product might cost $3.00 or so to make and the rest will be bonus money split up by the layers of IBOs. Whereas a $7.00 cd might take 50 cents to produce and only platinums and higher receive any compensation from this srouce of income. But rank and file IBOs rarely ever see a true and transparent picture of this business. It is shrouded in secrecy, just like the underside of an iceberg. I challenge IBOs to be real businessmen and women and ask upline the tough questions about where the money is made. Do not accept rhetoric and anecdotal stories. In real business, schedule C business tax returns are the normal way for verification of business income. If you are going to "invest" your hard earned money into the system to the benfit of upline, you should demand this information. 

Would any of you purchase a conventional business from someone without proof that it is profitable? Why would an Amway business be any different?

The Real Information?

When I was an IBO, my upline used to advise us to recruit people who had a financial need or young people who were open minded as they may not have preconceived ideas about Amway. When I was recruited, I was not where I wanted to be financially as I was in my 20's when I first got recruited by my sponsor. I believe that this is still common practice today, to look for people who are in need and then offer Amway as a solution. Sadly, Amway and the tools systems will more likely become a problem than a solution for the vast majority who try.

In my opinion, this is why some people defend Amway so fiercely. They accept Amway as their solution for long term financial stability and to admit that they were in error is difficult as it would not only expose the error, but would leave the IBO as not having that "hope" of long term financial freedom. It's hard to admit you got fooled or scammed and some people will dig in and press on, hoping that success will eventually come. Hope is a powerful thing after all. However, for most, it is false hope that is pitched in recruitment meetings and functions. 

Many prospects see big dreams when the diamonds parade on stage with designer suits and talk about waking up at noon and enjoying a lifestyle chock full of luxuries. It's almost like dreaming about hitting it big in Las Vegas or winning the lottery. I can't fault prospects for wanting some of these things. I know I certainly had some of these same dreams when I was an IBO. The problem is that Amway is highly unlikely to be the vehicle that delivers these dreams. For most, a second job along with saving and investing will bring more long term success. The problem is that people don't like to wait for the long term and Amway is presented as a short cut to success. 

The sad reality is that some (maybe most) diamonds are simply putting on a show, like a illusionist or a magician. Diamonds may indeed earn a six figure income, but after taxes and other expenses such as medical insurance, a diamond is very likely to live a very middle class lifestyle. Now I'm fairly sure that a crown ambassador type may have a million dollar income, but these Amway crowns are very rare, and the ones who exist have been in the business for a long time. There is not much chance of any new IBO coming in and achieving that level. In fact as time rolls on, it seems that more diamonds drop out due to divorce, better MLM opportunities or simply quit. It is apparent that long term residual income is a myth. Why do crowns seemingly keep working (or die on the job) if they could "walk away" and live a life of luxury with no worries? 

Amway reports that the average IBO earns $202 a month. I believe that number is also questionable as "most" IBOs (as shown in 6-4-2) actually earn more like $9 or $10 a month. Is this what you are signing up for? Don't forget about the ongoing expenses for tools and functions which results in net losses for most who get involved. 

The Amway "Pitch"?

I’m not sure whether this plan was carefully crafted out or whether it just evolved, but the way some uplines show the plan is cleverly designed to suck people into their systems. If you aren’t aware or careful, it’s easy to get caught up in the excitement of the presentation. The presentation is full of deception and I will try to point out these items in my analysis.

The speaker may talk about how he once thought he was “doing okay” in life. That he was making a living and able to meet his financial obligations. But he thought there might be more. One day he saw the plan and it changed his life. He did not realize he had gotten into a rut of going to work and going home every day and looking forward to his 2 weeks off each year. (This is relatable for many) That time and money are so important in life. Control of time and money is the key to success. Many people have lots of money but work all day and nite. Or people have time but are broke and can’t do much. The speaker might mention dreams or goals such as having an extra $500 a month or more. What would you do for an extra $500 a month. What about an extra $50,000 a year? Wouldn’t it be nice to have the wife stay home with the kids instead of leaving the family to go to work? Like the “Leave it to Beaver” days? (This gets the women excited)

The speaker will likely mention something about the economy and how prices always go up. The speaker may mention the 4 “I’s” that suck money out of your paycheck. The four I’s are Interest, Income Tax, Insurance and Inflation. The speaker may talk about how the government will take their cut and so on until you get your “net”. The speaker may mention how so many Americans are dead or broke by age 65, and that social security will collapse. (This instills fear in many people). 

The speaker might also go on to mention how so many marriages are falling apart in the US because of financial stress. That couples work so hard that they have no family time and it hurts marriages. That people work so many hours these days that they are married to their desks. The “manager” of the office is the first one there and the last one to go home. That despite all of this work and effort, people are falling into debt. Credit cards maxed out, loans, trying to keep up with the Joneses. (Many people can relate to this)

But now, because he was looking for opportunity/open minded one day, he saw an opportunity. This opportunity changed his life and can do the same for you! The speaker now wakes up at the crack of noon. His wife stays home with him and the kids. They take nice vacations and they do what they want when they want. (Of course, who doesn’t? But is this true?) The opportunity takes advantage of the internet and allows you to leverage your time and money so that you can create a residual walk away income. (But nobody walks away do they?)

This is approximately the point in the presentation where they mention “Amway” At this point, the speaker will defend Amway, stating that if you can make money, does it matter.? If you can save money, does it matter? The speaker may go into the product line and mention partner stores and will likely show a 6-4-2 plan or a variation of it. In every case, they will show a best case scenario, not what is likely. Many prospects will leave thinking “all I need is six”. They don’t understand how unlikely it is to sponsor six platinums and there is no mention of the retention rates, the income most IBOs can expect, and firm questions will be deflected to the prospect’s inviter. The speaker may also discourage you from speaking to friends and family as they may have a bad experience but the diamond is successful and knows more about Amway than your family and friends.

Joe’s commentary: So the speaker becomes very relatable from the start. His situation in life will be like many in the audience. He will talk about doing okay,. But wanting more or looking for more. He talks about debts and many in the audience will also relate. They get people to think about dream cars or vacations. He talks about walk away income, but doesn’t mention that very very few ever make significant money and apparently, not many actually walk away either. They say you will make money and save money by doing the business. It’s hard to argue against that,.except most people will not make money or save money. In fact most people, if they participate fully or partially in the training system, they will lose money. For the dedicated IBOs, many of them LOSE LOTS OF MONEY. The plan is crafted out to sound sensible and relatable, but many IBOs will give it a try and shortly after, will realize that the system doesn’t work, that the reputation of Amway IBOs is soiled and sponsoring people or even getting people to see the plan is a barrier that most people simply cannot overcome. At least if you know what’s going on, you may be able to avoid the trap.

Who's A Loser?

One of the things that my upline taught, and I believe is still taught today in various groups is that winners join Amway and losers do not. Or that you were a winner because you were doing something to better your financial future and those who didn't were losers. or broke minded. Of course the upline who said this had no knowledge about those who were not in Amway. Some of them may already have been financially sound or may have been doing something to better their financial future. I'm not sure why these uplines, who promote "positive", had to resort to calling people losers simpy because they did not agree that Amway was the greatest thing since sliced bread. 

In many games or sporting events, there will be someone or a team that wins the game and someone or a team that loses the game. Losing a game doesn't make you a loser and certainly, a team that wins the game would not say the losing team were losers. Can you imagine a pro football team's coach taking the podium after a game and saying his team won because the other team was a bunch or broke minded gutless losers? That would never happen, yet we see that frequently in the Amway/IBO world. The owner of Amway, Rich DeVos had once said in a recorded message that just because people do not agree with you (paraphrased) about Amway, does not make them losers and that IBOs should not call people losers. 

In all of this, people's jobs are also criticized. That a job stand for "just over broke" or "jackass of the boss" and other blurbs. Many IBO's goals and dreams consist of ditching their job so they can sleep all day and live a life of luxury. Ironically, it is most IBO's jobs that continue to produce income so they can pay their bills and feed their family. It is also an IBO's job that funds their Amway and AMO expenses such as product purchases and functions and voicemail, etc. Without having a job, most people could not even join Amway or pay for any tools. Sadly, most IBOs won't make any money in Amway either, and will have to continue to work at their jobs. I do not believe that someone earning an honest living working a job is a loser. Ironically, the folks calling people losers are often not even netting a profit from their Amway business!

Yes, in this business or the sports world, there will be winners and there will be losers. The question is whether you are the one who is allowed to be the judge of who is and who isn't. I would also suggest that IBOs are completely shutting down potential future business by their behavior. What if I went to a store to purchase something but the item was not available on that particular day, so I don't purchase anything and leave. As I leave, the store owner says I am a loser for not buying something there. Will I go back? Very unlikely. If an IBO truly sees themselves as a store owner, all prospects should be seen as potential business, whether future or present. If your upline tells you that people not interested are losers, you should hand him a mirror. 

Upline Hypocrites?

Now that the internet is so accessible, tons of information flows freely and some of the dark secrets of the Amway Lines Of Sponsorship have been exposed. Also, as times passes, it is becoming clear that a bunch of upline leaders are major hypocrites, apparently motivated by greed and personal gain. I believe this trend will continue. It appears that these same Amway leaders have managed to get around Amway's accreditation guidelines, which appears to be toothless.

Many upline leaders appeal to their audience by talking about how the Amway business can save marriages. I remember sitting in an audience when some WWDB diamonds spoke about how couples who build the business have a less than 2% divorce rate as compared to the national figure of 50% or so. One major reason cited was the financial stress that J-O-B people had (not enough cash). But now we see some upline diamond leaders getting divorced and in some cases, no explanation is offered, as if the missing spouse was beamed up by aliens. Many leaders simply revise history or deny that certain events happened. Some leaders just pretend nothing happened and it seems like IBOs are very forgiving, thus no real accountability has ever been applied to upline leaders. (As if the stress of losing money in Amway doesn't hurt marriages either?)

People also found that some Amway diamonds make a lot of money from tools. When I was an IBO, we were told very clearly, that nobody made profits from tools. That profits went back into the functions to make them better and cheaper. (Has any function gotten cheaper in the last 20 years?) In fact, when I was an IBO, I was told that WWDB was a non-profit entity, which was a bold lie. I will admit that upline later changed their story to WWDB was a for profit company, but nobody kept profits, thus the channeling money to make events better and cheaper. Again, when have events ever been cheaper? Now I don't think that events should be run pro bono, but the leaders should be transparent about it rather than the lies and shroud of secrecy that often accompanies talk about tools and tool income. When you do the math for these conventions, you can easily see that millions can be made in a single weekend. (i.e. 20,000 IBOs attending a function and paying $125 each is 2.5 million gross, not including sales of cds and other materials that get peddled at the function)

Some upline leaders also spoke of how utterly stupid it was to take out a loan as the banks make so much money off the interest. We now see some of these very leaders having their homes foreclosed! Some of these diamonds were the very ones who said their pay cash for everything, including their homes and cars. It is not in the hopes for these folks to suffer, but it is exposing the lies and deception that leaders used to entice IBOs to join and to purchase tools that were supposed to help IBOs to attain the same lifestyle as the diamonds. However, rather than more diamonds, I believe WWDB and some other LOSs, at least in the US, have fewer diamonds now than 15-20 years ago. Where's the evidence of success? Where's the "fruit" on the tree that they talk about?

What's even more amazing is how the hypocrisy of some of these leaders are exposed to downline and the downline simply ignores it and continues to follow blindly without an explanation or questioning the leaders after the incidents are exposed. 

IBOs should ask their leaders questions when these kinds of issues arise. And you should think twice if the answer you receive is silence or deflections

Amway IBOs "Help" People?

When I was an Amway IBO, I remember at many meetings, the speaker would talk about how Amway IBOs are helping people by getting them in the business or at least by showing them the plan. Looking back, I fail to see how inviting someone into a business where they are virtually assured of losing money (in the systems) is helping them. This is also how some IBOs think that they are suddenly "better" people because they think they are helping people by being an IBO. 

On average, Amway products cost more than retailers so a prospect is not helped by purchasing Amway products because they are paying a premium price. For IBOs purchasing Amway products, they are taking away from their local economy by purchasing Amway goods, although I guess you could argue that the IBO is helping Amway to succeed. 

IBOs who are actively building a business usually have many meetings to attend, and hard core IBOs are taught not to miss any meetings. Therefore an IBO has less time to spend with his or her family and friends. The IBO has less time to spend at church, and less time to help with any community projects. The IBO will probably miss someone's wedding or birthday celebration because of the hectic schedule of an IBO. It's a part of being dedicated to the Amway business and the system of teaching.

While all of this activity is happening, IBOs also have less money because the voicemail, standing order, functions and books and other expenses eat away at an IBO's resources. Thus IBOs have less to contribute to charity or even for their entertainment and enjoyment.

So an honest question. How do IBOs help people by building an Amway business? How are they better people by showing someone the plan or sponsoring them into a business that nearly assures they will lose money?

Im my informed opinion, the nicer and better person is what upline teaches as a side note to distract an IBO from the FACT that they are losing money because of the defacto 100 PV and tools requirements. They also make it seem as if IBOs are "helping" people by showing them the business plan. When you think about it, perhaps just the opposite is happening. This is another tactic, IMO, that uplines use to justify an IBO's lack of progress, much like how they tell downline that they are successful just by getting themselves to a function. If you are an IBO or a prospect, please read this article carefully.

Amway Financial Disaster?

When I saw the Amway plan many years ago, it was presented sort of as a road to riches. Yes, the presenter was careful not o say it was "get rich quick", but 2-5 years is relatively quick when compared with working 40 hours a week for 40 years as the business plan was shown to us. And while some exceptional people do achieve diamond, there is a trail of Amway IBOs who suffer losses, some of them staggering. In our own group, I know of at least one couple who lost their home to foreclosure following upline advice, and another couple to ended up filing for chapter 7 bankruptcy. I must state that the bad advice leading to bankruptcy and foreclosure most likely came from upline leaders. I also know of a gal who quit her job to attend a function, faithfully following upline advice from WWDB. The thought was that the function would be so valuable and you can always find another job.

So what is the experience of many CORE IBOs? I'm not talking about those who "do nothing", but IBOs who actually make an earnest effort. Well, if they do their 100 PV, then they are spending about $300 a month and dedicated IBOs will typically spend about $200 to $300 a month on average for tools. Of course, your level of commitment can make this number higher or lower. This is for a single person. A couple or family would be expected to do more, thus spend more. So for these 100 PV IBOs, they will expend about $500 to $600 a month and get back maybe $10. Of course if they were not in Amway, they would still have some expenses for household goods, but not anywhere near $500 to $600 a month. 

Over the course of a few months or a few years, these expenses add up and can become staggering losses. Hard core IBOs might expend even more. The only way a rank and file IBO can gain relief is to sell products (which is difficult given the prices and the Amway name reputation) or to sponsor downline who wil then suffer some of the losses for you. It would be my estimate that an IBO might break even at about the 4000 PV level. However, at 4000 PV, you might have 30 to 40 downline. The catch is that only about 1 in 5 IBOs manage to sponsor another IBO. 

Over the years, I would suspect that millions of IBOs have come and gone through the Amway opportunity, and probably lost billions of dollars. But many of those who lose money think they are successful, because many upline will edify those who buy tools, regardless of IBO results. After a few months, if your group and PV are not growing consistently, it is highly unlikely that you are headed for success.

IBOs and newbies, are you on the road to riches or financial disaster? Keep in mind that a net loss is not success, despite what you upline mentor may tell you.

The Unseen?

I was in discussion on another related forum and a comment was made about Amway being an iceberg, because you see the shiny clean ice on the top but you do not see the majority of the iceberg. Or in other words, the diamonds show you the fancy suits, jewelry, cars, mansions, jets and what you don't see is the financial carnage that takes place in their downlines at times. My former upline would tell audiences that they could skip meals to buy more standing orders because you might hear the one thing that could make your business explode. 

Sure, on standing orders, you won't hear too much of the unethical and "wrong" teaching, because some of this is monitored by Amway, but it's the night owls and smaller group meetings where the real teaching is disseminated. This is where you are told to practically sell your soul to achieve in Amway. This is where the teaching comes in where you should be purchasing excessive amounts of tools in order to succeed. This is where you are told to never miss a function unless it's for your own funeral. A newbie or casual observer won't see these things but if you ever commit to becoming a business builder, this is likely to become your world.

You don't see the backstage at functions and meetings. Former rubies and platinums have made commentary about the diamonds literall laughing about how gullible the downline are. You don't see the where the cash collected at the meetings and functions go. There had been some past comments about literally, suitcases of cash leaving the premises. If your upline has a mansion and a fleet of nice cars, it's likely that your tools money played a significant part in your diamond obtaining it.

It's a simple conclusion. The tools have a higher markup than Amway products and have fewer beneficiaries to split up the bonus. A $7.00 Amway product might cost $3.00 or so to make and the rest will be bonus money split up by the layers of IBOs. Whereas a $7.00 cd might take 50 cents to produce and only platinums and higher receive any compensation from this srouce of income. But rank and file IBOs rarely ever see a true and transparent picture of this business. It is shrouded in secrecy, just like the underside of an iceberg. I challenge IBOs to be real businessmen and women and ask upline the tough questions about where the money is made. Do not accept rhetoric and anecdotal stories. In real business, schedule C business tax returns are the normal way for verification of business income. If you are going to "invest" your hard earned money into the system to the benfit of upline, you should demand this information. 

Would any of you purchase a conventional business from someone without proof that it is profitable? Why would an Amway business be any different?

Fruit On The Tree?

I had a good chuckle recently when some Amway apologists spoke about looking at the "fruit on the tree". One commentator said his parents were broke and he looked to his diamond since the diamond apparently had fruit on the tree. I thought about this concept and I agree, that perhaps we should look at fruit on the tree. My former LOS, WWDB had diamonds get divorced, , had homes foreclosed, go bankrupt, and some even left WWDB for greener pastures. That's some heavy duty fruit for sure.

IBOs and Amway prospects, please ask your upline platinum or diamond to show you the fruit on their tree. Ask them to see their (business) financial statements. This is actually a common practice in real business. When a friend of mine sold his business a few years back, he made three year's worth of income tax returns to show prospective buyers. If your upline dodges the issue or tell you to mind your own business, red flags should pop up all over the place.

As far as I know, not one single bigger pin has ever shown their business financials. In fact, if it made certain bigger pins look good, why wouldn't they want to "show their fruit". They certainly don't mind showing off diamond rings, fancy clothes, sports cars and the like. What many IBOs don't understand is that fancy cars and other toys is no evidence of fruit on the tree. Diamonds might be in debt or may not even own some of the toys they show off. 

It has been discussed that some diamonds may rent cars or fancy homes and try to imply that they own these items. Some diamonds, possibly many diamonds in the past have lied or embellished the truth about paying for everything in cash, including their homes and cars. They also at times, have given the audience the impression that these luxuries are all purchased with Amway income, and we know that many diamonds have probably had supplemental income from the systems, or other business ventures outside of Amway.

We also know that some diamonds are in debt, but simply try to portray an excessive lifestyle. (See Ruth Carter's Book: Amway Motivational Organizations, Behind the Smoke and Mirrors). Some diamonds may have a substantial income, but it doesn't mean they are financially free and able to live a jetset lifestyle that many portray. It is an illusion, possibly to be able to attract new prospects into the business. 

So yes, let us actually see the fruit on the tree. Most likely the tree is bare.

Spring Leadership Conference?

 Around this time of the year, the diamonds and various groups typically conduct their spring conference or spring leadership conference.   It’s allegedly where new platinums speak and tell their stories of being struggling IBOs who did whatever was needed to succeed.  I suppose it gives hope to newer or up and coming IBOs.  I guess you can say that these stories are relatable and inspiring.  

What goes unnoticed is that despite the limited success of these new “leaders”, there are still hoards of down lines who are operating at a loss.  My sponsor spoke at one of these conferences when I was an IBO and it seemed inspiring because it was someone I knew personally who was on the stage and it also felt like if he could succeed then why couldn’t I go the same?   

In fact I was on track to reach the platinum level at that time bud I had already begun to suspect that the tools and functions were a scam.  Looking back the tools are a massive scam.  It is IMO, the reason why tools and functions are a priority to the diamonds.   This is the reason why diamonds say never quit.  Because if you quit, they lose a loyal customer of their tools and functions business.  

This is also the reason why you are to never miss a function.  If you miss a meeting or function, the diamond gets less money.   For new IBOs and prospects, it may be hard to accept but the primary reason for tools and functions is the supplement the income of the diamonds, because perhaps Amway doesn’t pay as well as they lead you to believe.  Products are expensive and difficult to sell, which leads to a high attrition rate.   Thus diamonds need to peddle tools and functions.   Don’t believe me?  Do the math and follow the money. 

Your Job Sucks?

One of the ways that Amway diamonds would put down jobs was to toss in the phrase that a job was simply trading hours for dollars. As if it were demeaning to have a job where you got paid for your time. I believe it's all relative. Being that many IBOs are young and maybe working in more entry level types of jobs, then yeah, your hour's wage might not be that great. If you earn say $10 an hour, then you might be struggling financially and it may take time before your skills and knowledge increase to a point where your experience is worth more money. What if you had a job paying $1000 an hour and earned $160,000 a month? Is that a lousy deal trading hours for dollars? I don't think so! 

Conversely, having a business can be good or bad also. If you have an Amway business earnning less than $100 a month and you spend $200-$300 on functions, standing orders and other training and motivational materials, then you are losing money. You would be better off working for free. That is still a better alternative than working a business where you are losing money. I think most people agree that a platinum group typically has a 100 or more IBOs. Thus a platinum is in the top 1% of all IBOs. I have heard that the platinum level is where you start to break even or make a little profit, depending on your level of tool consumption. If platinums are barely making a profit, then the other 99+% of IBOs are losing money. How much is that worth per hour?

I think uplines cleverly trick IBOs into thinking that a job is bad. Trading hours for dollars, afterall, sounds like some kind of indentured servant of sorts. But in the end, what matters is your bottom line. If you are an IBO with little or no downline, and/or not much in terms of sales to non IBOs/customers, then you are losing money each and every month if you are attending functions and buying standing orders. Your 10-12 hours a week of Amway work is costing you money! But if you spend 10-12 hours a week, even at minimum wage, then you might be making about 300 to 350 a month gross income. After taxes, you make about 250 to 300. At least trading hours for dollars gets you a guaranteed net gain at the end of the month. You have money that can pay for your bills and expenses instead of the Amway business, which is simply false hope for most.

Uplines trick you into a "business mentality" where you think that working for a net loss is just a part of business. IBOs should realize that a business promoted as low risk and no overhead should be one where you can profir right away. Instead, IBOs are taught to delay gratification, or to reinvest any profit back into their business in the form of tools and functions, which results in a net loss. If that's the case I would choose trading hours for dollars.

Remember, trading hours for dollars is not a bad deal if you are making enough dollars per hour. And even those who make less, are better off that those who "run a business" but end up with a net loss. It's all relative and hopefully, this message will help new or prospective IBOs who are being enticed to join the Amway business opportunity. Good luck to those with jobs and those with businesses. You can be successful either way. Remember that!

What's Likely In Amway?

Many IBOs join Amway thinking they will go diamond and their lives will be easy after that. No more job, no more boss, and living in the lap of luxury. Afterall, uplines parade themselves on stage showing you slide shows and picture of jets, mansion, sports cars, etc. I suppose they don't aloways tell the audience that the trappings may not actually be owned by them. But still, it draws a great deal of excitement from the audience and the speaker may tell everyone to dream about having the same luxuries - if only you will listen to their advice and follow their system. 

Oddly, most IBOs don't do a thing. Many who sign up don't even bother to place an order and most who sign up won't renew their business after one year. But these folks who basically do nothing aren't the victims of deception. These folks who "do nothing" got what they put into the business. It is the IBOs who do put in an effort and purchase what is often promoted as "foolproof" tools that fall victim to the promoters of the system. Many new and ongoing IBOs who are determined to succeed are often told that they "need" the system, that they cannot possibly succeed without tools, just as a carpenter cannot build homes without a hammer and nails. So many IBOs, wanting a better life, will make the investment in the tools, thinking their success is assured with that investment and and some elbow grease tossed in.

Sadly, the system does not work. Of course there are some new diamonds emerging every now and then but they are the exception and not the rule. My former LOS, WWDB seems to be going backwards. I believe there are fewer diamonds today than when I was active some years ago. Furthermore, some WWDB diamonds were embroiled in home foreclosures, bankruptcy, and some actually walked away from WWDB altogether. 

There is ZERO, I repeat, ZERO unbiased evidence that any of these system tools help someone to build an Amway business. Showing a new diamond on stage as evidence of system success proves nothing. The diamonds don't show the hundreds of thousands of people who may have made the same effort only to fail. It's like showinng off the winners of the lottery. Sure there are winners but the reality and the typical result will be multitudes of losers contributing their money in order for one big winner to emerge. While the Amway business is not a game of chance, the ultimate outcome and results are just like a lottery.

Amway diamonds and promoters like to show people "what is possible", but they neglect to discuss with prospects "what is likely". If you are researching a business opportunity, you should be wanting to know "what is likely" or what are the typical results. If people only search for best case scenario results and ignore what is likely to happen, they are almost assured of failure. For most IBOs, the typical result is to spend $300 a month on products, many of which you never used before, and another $200 to $300 for training that doesn't work. That is typical and likely for many IBOs who work the business. Their return on their investment of time and money is about $10 in monthly income. Sure, there are some diamonds who earn over $100,000 a year from Amway, but that experience is unusual, not the likely result of joining the Amway business.

Someone researching a franchise opportunity such as McDonald's for example, will want to know what the average owner/operator earns. Knowing only the best case scenario doesn't help and while a real business owner may be interested in the best case situation, that same owner is likely to be more interested in the likely results. Why should Amway IBOs be different?

Pigs Don't Know Pigs Stink?

I once came across some comments on another forum indicating that they had heard comments about "Pigs don't know pigs stink". I'm certain it stems from a tape/cd/audio recorded by a diamond named Dave Severn (wife was Jan). This slogan was quite popular when I was an IBO in the 1990's and I'm sure that some Amway IBOs still toss around the phrase. It was basically used to describe people who wren't in Amway. They worked hard at their jobs but they were basically "broke" and weren't getting anywhere in life financially.   At least the IBOs (who were also broke) were doing something about their financial situation (Amway!). So the ignorant rest of the population didn't know any better, thus the term pigs don't know pigs stink. 

Having been out of the Amway business and having done a great deal of research about Amway and the Amway groups such as WWDB and BWW, I can say the exact same thing about IBOs. IBOs don't know IBOs stink. Of course I don't mean that literally, but business building IBOs order their products each month. The pay for their standing orders, book of the month, voicemail and attend all the functions. They desperately try to recruit new prospects and they use all the catchy phrases taught by their upline, either in person or off of a tape/cd/audio (thus the term "tape speak") They are very likely losing money each and every month, all the while thinking they are becoming successful and better or nicer people. At the end of the year, they sometimes suffer massive financial losses in the thousands because purchasing all of the tools and training materials add up to a tidy sum of cash after a while.  They might even think they are successful while losing money because it's what spline teaches.  That you are successful because you are trying to improve your financial situation, eve though the facts might prove otherwise.  

At the functions, the Amway IBOs smile and act positive, even when they are losing their shirts. Upline will edify their dedication to the system and teach them two very important, but self serving pieces of advice. They will teach IBOs to never quit, and that if IBOs quit or fail, it is always their own fault, even if they did everything upline taught them. In this manner, upline removes any responsibility for the IBO's failure. Ironically, upline is quick to accept responsbility for any success (even if there is little to none). All the while, IBOs are attending all the meetings, doing all the steps they have been taught. They act alike and in many cases, look alike. Most of them also share a common result. They are losing money, and many are losing lots of it. They are simply taught to ignore the losses and to remain positive. Most people eventually figure it out and walk away from Amway. Most will never mention their involvement again and because many are sponsored by friends and family, will never file any formal complaint or discuss their displeasure.

The Amway IBOs continue to associate with their positive and active fellow IBOs, all the while their bank accounts are shrinking and transfering funds to upline. Pigs don't know pigs stink indeed??

The Amway Pitch?

I’m not sure whether this plan was carefully crafted out or whether it just evolved, but the way some uplines show the plan is cleverly designed to suck people into their systems. If you aren’t aware or careful, it’s easy to get caught up in the excitement of the presentation. The presentation is full of deception and I will try to point out these items in my analysis.

The speaker may talk about how he once thought he was “doing okay” in life. That he was making a living and able to meet his financial obligations. But he thought there might be more. One day he saw the plan and it changed his life. He did not realize he had gotten into a rut of going to work and going home every day and looking forward to his 2 weeks off each year. (This is relatable for many) That time and money are so important in life. Control of time and money is the key to success. Many people have lots of money but work all day and nite. Or people have time but are broke and can’t do much. The speaker might mention dreams or goals such as having an extra $500 a month or more. What would you do for an extra $500 a month. What about an extra $50,000 a year? Wouldn’t it be nice to have the wife stay home with the kids instead of leaving the family to go to work? Like the “Leave it to Beaver” days? (This gets the women excited)

The speaker will likely mention something about the economy and how prices always go up. The speaker may mention the 4 “I’s” that suck money out of your paycheck. The four I’s are Interest, Income Tax, Insurance and Inflation. The speaker may talk about how the government will take their cut and so on until you get your “net”. The speaker may mention how so many Americans are dead or broke by age 65, and that social security will collapse. (This instills fear in many people). 

The speaker might also go on to mention how so many marriages are falling apart in the US because of financial stress. That couples work so hard that they have no family time and it hurts marriages. That people work so many hours these days that they are married to their desks. The “manager” of the office is the first one there and the last one to go home. That despite all of this work and effort, people are falling into debt. Credit cards maxed out, loans, trying to keep up with the Joneses. (Many people can relate to this)

But now, because he was looking for opportunity/open minded one day, he saw an opportunity. This opportunity changed his life and can do the same for you! The speaker now wakes up at the crack of noon. His wife stays home with him and the kids. They take nice vacations and they do what they want when they want. (Of course, who doesn’t? But is this true?) The opportunity takes advantage of the internet and allows you to leverage your time and money so that you can create a residual walk away income. (But nobody walks away do they?)

This is approximately the point in the presentation where they mention “Amway” At this point, the speaker will defend Amway, stating that if you can make money, does it matter.? If you can save money, does it matter? The speaker may go into the product line and mention partner stores and will likely show a 6-4-2 plan or a variation of it. In every case, they will show a best case scenario, not what is likely. Many prospects will leave thinking “all I need is six”. They don’t understand how unlikely it is to sponsor six platinums and there is no mention of the retention rates, the income most IBOs can expect, and firm questions will be deflected to the prospect’s inviter. The speaker may also discourage you from speaking to friends and family as they may have a bad experience but the diamond is successful and knows more about Amway than your family and friends.

Joe’s commentary: So the speaker becomes very relatable from the start. His situation in life will be like many in the audience. He will talk about doing okay,. But wanting more or looking for more. He talks about debts and many in the audience will also relate. They get people to think about dream cars or vacations. He talks about walk away income, but doesn’t mention that very very few ever make significant money and apparently, not many actually walk away either. They say you will make money and save money by doing the business. It’s hard to argue against that,.except most people will not make money or save money. In fact most people, if they participate fully or partially in the training system, they will lose money. For the dedicated IBOs, many of them LOSE LOTS OF MONEY. The plan is crafted out to sound sensible and relatable, but many IBOs will give it a try and shortly after, will realize that the system doesn’t work, that the reputation of Amway IBOs is soiled and sponsoring people or even getting people to see the plan is a barrier that most people simply cannot overcome. At least if you know what’s going on, you may be able to avoid the trap.

The Residual Income Lie?

One of the things that many Amway IBOs mistakenly believe is that they will build their Amway business and then they will have the ability to "walk away" from the business while the income continues to flow in. I believe if there was such an incredible benefit such as lifelong residual income that could be achieved from Amway, I'm fairly certain that Amway would advertise this as a benefit of being an IBO. But Amway does not. It is very likely that your LOS such as WWDB or one of the others will promote this benefit while telling you that your best chance to achieve it is by subscribing to their "system". 

One thing that goes unnnoticed all too often is that there seems to be nobody who is actually retired and living off the efforts of having built a big Amway business once upon a time. Seems that even the crown ambassadors still have busy lifestyles running from function to function and participating in other business related activities. While many of these leaders may claim they love their downlines or some other lie, it is my belief that these leaders keep working their Amway businesses for one reason only. That is they need to keep working in order to keep the income flowing in. 

The diamond lifestyle that is often portrayed may seem like a great goal or dream to achieve, but the fact of the matter is that a "diamond lifestyle" cannot be sustained on diamond income. The average diamond, according to Amway (non Q12), earns about $150,000 a year. While that may seem like a great amount of income, it's not nearly enough to sustain the kind of lifestyle portrayed by diamonds. Even if that income is supplemented by income from the sale of tools, you can't fly your family around the country first class to do all kinds of functions and still end up with much leftover to own fancy homes and cars. 

If I deposited $1000 in the bank and never touch the money, the bank would pay me a certain amount of interest each year, guaranteed. That is residual income.  Bank interest isn't much residual income, but it fits the definition.   That $1000, if left in the bank long enough, will generate some form of income, albeit very small.

In Amway, you can basically earn income in two ways. You can sell products for a profit, but there are problems with this. First off, Amway products in general are more expensive than local retailers, plus the products are generic in nature and thus, barely qualify to be sold at a premium price.  It is why you hear so many justifications about quality and concentration, because you are hard pressed to argue cost. Secondly, you are severely restricted from advertising, thus selling can be difficult. The other way to generate more income is to build a downline in hopes that the downline will help you to leverage your volume. But then your downline will have the same problem that you had in moving products. That being said, even if you achieve some level such as emerald or diamond, your business will immediately begin to fall apart once you stop working because attrition will take its toll. It is why there are hoards of "former" platinums. If platinums are not sustainable, then neither is any other level. 

Diamonds are not forever in Amway.  There are many many instances of diamonds quitting, resigning, or falling out of qualification. People come and go in this business every day. Do you really think you can bank on retirement and residual income under these circumstances? If you believe that, I have some swamp land in Florida to sell you. 

Amway Groupthink Phenomena?

I have read all of these posts. Interesting that practically everyone who supports Amway cannot seem to spell very well.  There are lots of typos and grammatical errors posted here by those who jump up and down reciting Amway's many virtues. It is a scam and a groupthink phenomenon of staggering proportions. From a psychological perspective, Amway does its best to separate people from those who would challenge its legitimacy and operations. This is not unlike how Hitler or any other leader would silence opponents or dissidents by having them "removed" from the equation. Same thing goes here, Amway teaches people to ignore and remove obstacles and people who challenge the system, even if said challenges are completely rational and offered by people with the IBO's best interest in mind. It hits IBO's in soft spots for family, friends, and freedom (the 3 F's), and it entices them to focus on emotional reasoning rather than very cognitive-based, rational dissection of information. 

Amway IBO's are taught emotionalism, not rationalism. From a business perspective, it is a farce. IBO's are no entrepreneurs, as they wear the collars of their uplines. Over and over, I have been told to do as my uplines say. What if my upline is a total moron and I have a law degree and an MBA?? I'm supposed to follow these uplines?? According to the system, yes, the uplines' words are paramount. So no, IBO's are not entrepreneurs and do not gain any real experience. IBO is a fancy name for distributor, pure and simple. 

I had the opportunity to meet a number of "diamonds" and "emeralds", all of whom had either left the business to get real jobs or were still struggling bringing in about $30,000 per year. Many of them are posting massive losses, and by the way, the IRS does not consider pro-suming OR tickets to a convention (to hear diamonds scream at you) to be business expenses. Good luck trying to recover those losses. It is a pyramid scheme simply because mathematically and considering the law of averages, a downline cannot really earn more than his upline. It just doesn't happen - it's a nice idea, but it doesn't happen. I worked through multiple scenarios with a friend, trying to see how I could out-earn my upline, and we found several variables that would keep that from happening.   Now you could outran your sponsor, but that's because most people in Amway do nothing and quit.  But I highly doubt that someone can jump in and out earn their spline diamond.   Highly unlikely as upline diamonds have a form of seniority and power.  

Finally, on a personal level, this Amway monkey business cost me a great friendship, an IBO who decided that taking a chance on some crazy dream was more important than those who loved him most. I think he will continue prospecting and pushing "the plan" until there isn't anyone left. If you know someone in Amway or who is thinking seriously about it, you need to realize that they will soon be lost. Amway people are very much like crack users (very similar to psychopathology, actually), and they will choose Amway over you, their family, their friends, and anything that gets in the way.  That is the reality of the Amway groupthink phenomena.  

The Result Of Joining Amway: Broken Dreams?

One of the things that Amway promoters commonly use to entice prospects into joining is to get them to think about financial dreams and goals that they would like to accomplish. After all, who wouldn't want to be retired at age 35 and walking on the exotic beaches of the world while sipping mai tais? Or who wouldn't want to live a life of leisure and excitement with unlimited barrels of cash rolling in to finance all of the fun and frivolity? Of course most people get excited by this. 

Sadly, the things that people get excited by, or the things that people join for, often become less accessible because of people's involvement in Amway. Because of the leach organizations that attach themselves to the Amway business, many IBOs get their bank accounts drained and wind up quitting with broken dreams. These organizations such as WWBD or BWW will promote their materials as the key to success in Amway. But in reality, these organizations reap handsome profits while basically bankrupting the downline IBOs. What is also sad is that the system does not deliver the success that is promoted. Less than one half of one percent even reach the platinum level, which is allegedly the level where you break even or make a small profit. That's nothing to brag about is it? Where's the fruit on the tree that upline leaders speak of?

During my tenure in the business, uplines taught us to buy all the materials. Books, standing orders tapes/cds/audios, functions, and other materials. In fact, in addition to standing order, upline wanted IBOs to purchase an additional 5-7 tapes or cds each week. Afterall, you should be listening to new material daily right? In fact, upline wanted people to "invest" or spend all of their income on these materials. In an open meeting setting, a diamond said that your family could skip a meal to get another tape/cd because the information was so valuable that you might hear the one thing that propels you to diamond. Almost as if buying a tape/cd was like some lottery ticket. 

And sadly, some IBOs did go "all in". They bought tools like there was no tomorrow. In my crossline, there was a couple who went bankrupt and a couple whose home was foreclosed. Now was this financial difficulty all due to their involvement in Amway? I don't know, but certainly, buying hundreds of dollars of materials on a monthly basis can certainly contribute to someone's financial problems. And these IBOs did this on upline's advice. Thus upline advised this even when they likely knew that these IBOs were in financial difficulty. If they would tell you to starve your kids, then surely they will not be concerned about your other issues. I also sat in a function where a diamond taught about how long you can put off paying a mortgage before foreclosure would occur. Probably so people could go in hock to attend a major function. 

It is a sad thing indeed when uplines will try to sell you dreams. What's worse is when they are actually selling you broken dreams.

Information Is A Buffet?

In the Amway business, most active IBOs are advised to trust upline unconditionally.  To think of upline as a coach or a mentor. These upline mentors or coaches are supposed to have your best interest at heart and they will guide you to success if only you will be open to learning. Many uplines, including my former uplines used to coin the term "copy" or duplicate. If you can do that you will be successful. Even the simplest of people can copy. The upline may crack a joke about getting thru school by copying. Thus, many IBOs follow exactly what their upline advises them to do. 

But then uplines turn the responsibility away from themselves. Many Amway defenders will also claim that downline should not simply follow the advice of upline. They may make a ridiculous claim that standing orders and functions contain advice that must be discerned. That information is like a buffet. You pick and choose what you need and discard the rest. If you are a new Amway IBO or prospect, let me tell you that is a load of guano (crap) that is being heaped on you. Your upline is touted as having experience and wisdom in the Amway business, which is why you are paying good money for voicemail, books, cds/audios and functions. So why would their advice be something you pick and choose? How would a new IBO know what to pick and choose?

Imagine hiring a guide for a trek in the wilderness. The guide is supposed to be an experienced outdoorsman, perhaps an expert. So if he recommends that you eat certain plants or fruits, you trust that he is going to guide you right. Imagine eating something that made you sick to your stomach, only to have the guide tell you that he just points out plants and fruits and you have to discern which is good for you and which is not. You would fire the guide and tell everyone you know not to use that guide anymore, and rightfully so. 

But here we have these "systems" such as Network 21, WWDB or BWW that have been "guiding" IBOs for up to 20 years or more in some cases, and the number of diamonds are negligible. Sure there are many new platinums, but many tool consuming platinums have been found to be losing money or making very little money for their efforts. What's more, it would appear that Amway is losing ground in North America based on sales and revenue.  One can reasonably guess that any new platinums that break are simply replacing the volume for a platinum that no longer exists or a platinum that no longer qualifies. My former upline diamond appears to have all new qualifying platinums from the time I was in the business and here's the kicker. My former diamond had 6 downline rubies. As far as I know, none of these rubies are qualified as platinum anymore, although I have heard that one or two of these are still active, but as customers and not as leaders in Amway.  

Uplines also program their downline to take responsibility for the failure. Thus you have IBOs who did everything that was asked of them, only to fail. Yet these IBOs often blame themselves for their failure. It is my opinion that former IBOs who did everything asked of them only to fail should file a formal complaint against their LOS with the better business bureau. Amway defenders like to think that a lack of formal complaints means that the system works when clearly, there is no unbiased substantial evidence to suggest that the system works. It looks like some succeed in spite of the system, not because of.  The vast majority go system IBOs lose money.  

The catch in all this is uplines skirting responsibility for the outcomes of those they "mentor" and profit from. IBOs should ask if upline really cared about their success, why do you have to pay for any help that you receive from your upline diamond?

IBOs Live In Denial?

One thing that appears to be common among Amway IBOs is how IBOs are in denial. They truly believe that their uplines are working in their best interest and that upline wants their success. I don't believe that to be true. If uplines were truly making a fortune from Amway, why would an downline IBO have to pay for practically every bit of help they get from upline leaders? Why are there endless numbers of cds and meetings at cost, to learn to buy and sell, and to recruit others. Is Amway that complicated that IBOs mist be continually trained or is it because uplines make the most profits fromt tools? 

To show the plan, you would need to pay to attend an open meeting, and pay for your guests, even if they do not register as a result of the presentation. You pay for voicemail to communikate with your upline and downlines. You pay for standing orders and you may end up paying twice if you were in attendance at the function when the standing order was recorded. You pay for books and other materials as well. And there is no end. If you are in Amway for ten years, you would get ten years worth of this material. If you are in for thirty years, you would get thirty years of this material. 

What's more, many IBOs turn their heads when ugly facts rear their heads. For example, some IBOs deny that a prominent triple diamond was involved in bankruptcy proceedings. They continue to edify and pay for financial advice from someone who could not even manage his own finances. They believe that Amway saves marriages even when the leaders who speak this may be getting divorced. It's like upline simply revises history and downlines buy it without question. Many IBOs do not even see it as a problem that some upline boldy lied and said there were no profits from tools in the past. I find this odd because tool profits are still shrouded in secrecy and downline simply believe that they will eventually get a cut, even without a written compensation plan and agreement. 

I believe too many IBOs are simply in denial. They give upline their trust and upline abuses it. IBOs are told they are successful for attending a function even when they might be losing money month after month. They may be told that the Amway business is not about money but about making friends. They may be told that they are nicer people because of their participation in Amway. What too many IBOs do not see is that they are in denial about their business. Most IBOs are losing money, a little at a time, perhaps $100 or $150 a month. For the hardcore, maybe more. But they are taught to ignore these simple facts and deny that there is a problem. They cling to hopes that success is right around the corner or that they will succeed if ony they will never quit. Most of this advice only serves the upline and not the IBOs. It is a sad thing.

It is my hope that exposure of some of these tactics will be beneficial to information seekers and perhaps new IBOs who have not yet been fully indoctrinated. I encourage people to ask tough questions, demand answers and use due diligence when checking out this opportunity. The fact is that very few people every make a profit and people should know this before getting involved. Don't deny the obvious. If the details don't add up, keep researching. The interenet is chock full of information about Amway. This website is just one source, but look high and low before committing your time and money. The fact is that less than 1% of IBOs make any money out of this opportunity. Don't deny the undeniable. Get the facts and act on them!