Its Tax Time?

 A sight visitor posted this link which I found interesting and humorous. I did not post the entire link, so there is more material. Check it out.

http://riles52.blogspot.com/2011/06/selling-soap-as-hobby-amway-ibos-in-tax.html

Selling Soap as a Hobby - Amway IBO's in Tax Court
Roger S. Campbell, et ux. v. Commissioner, TC Memo 2011-42

The Amway distributorship system is well known to respondent and this Court
Friscia Construction, Inc., et al. v. Commissioner, TC Memo 2000-192

I included the Campbell case in one of my group posts. It concerned someone whose Amway activities were considered a hobby by the Tax Court denying them deductions for losses. That portion of the post was picked up by someone who calls himself Joecool and posted on his blog under the title "Do IBO's have a clue about business?". I found that there are quite a few blogs dedicated to pointing out the downside of the Amway experience including Married To An Ambot by Anna Banana :

The other attraction of Amway to some people is that it might allow them to deduct as business expenses things like cars, part of their home or entertainment that they would have spent anyway. That's probably the aspect of Amway that the IRS finds most interesting. Joecool did a post on how some IBO's think of their income tax refunds (generated by Amway losses sheltering other income) as profit.

To me the most interesting thing that I found in my search is this excerpt from the Internal Revenue Manual for examiners who are doing information requests:

.4.4.3.39 — Amway Corporation
[Last Revised: 12-10-2007]
(1) Amway Corporation has waived the hand delivery requirements of 26 USC §7603 and will accept summonses by personal service, mail, or overnight service at Amway Corporation, 7575 E. Fulton, Ada, MI 49355, Attn.: Director, Legal Division. Direct distributors who further qualify for profit sharing bonuses receive the non-cash part of that bonus through a mutual fund account administered by Amway Mutual Fund, Inc., 7575 E. Fulton, Ada, MI 49355, which requires a separate summons

Now I am subject to the AICPA Statements of Standards on Tax Practice, which among other things forbids me from giving clients advice based on what I believe the audit selection process of a taxing authority is. I wouldn't do it anyway, because I think most people who give that type of advice are guessing. Even if you happen to be one of my clients, I'm speaking to you purely as a reader here when I give you this advice:

You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask off that old Lone Ranger

And you don't take no Schedule C losses from an arrangement with a company that IRS examiners have on speed-dial.

I found 23 cases of IBO's who fought the IRS in Court. (A couple appealed, but I only counted them once)They pretty much all lost. In these type of cases there are really three ways you are denied deductions. The first is substantiation. You didn't prove it. Next is that the expenses are not really ordinary and necessary expenses of the business. When you are talking about cars and business use of the home, those two issues can get blurred together. The third is that there really isn't any business there. Taxpayers fight the IRS and win on that issue frequently even a Vietnamese couple whose "business" was playing slot machines using the principles of Feng Shui. Amway IBO's who take on the IRS on the Section 183 "hobby loss" issue almost always lose.

One of the most common themes is that IBO's seek advice generally only from their "uplines", who of course are not disinterested. They also do not seem to put any energy into trying to control their expenses. I'm going to give you a little snippet from each of the cases and comment a bit on some of them.

LOPEZ v. COMM., Cite as 94 AFTR 2d 2004-7075
Jorge N. Lopez, et ux. v. Commissioner , TC Memo 2003-142

Tax Court properly determined that engineer and wife weren't entitled to business deduction for expenses incurred in connection with their Amway products distribution activity because they didn't engage in activity for profit: although taxpayers showed proof of profit motive, such wasn't sufficient to override govt.'s evidence that included their failure to keep businesslike records, their failure to alter unprofitable methods, their non-dependence on activity income, and their use of activity to socialize with friends and family.

In their own Amway activities, which began in 1996, the Lopezes sold products at cost to both their downline distributors and their customers, which practice eliminated retail sales as a source of gross income. They chose instead to focus their efforts on developing a network of downline distributors to generate performance bonuses. Relying on Amway brochures, the Lopezes concluded that they would need to achieve and maintain a monthly point value of 4,000 for their Amway activities to be profitable. In 1998 and 1999, the Lopezes' point value did not exceed 372 points in any month.


The only advice they sought for their Amway activities was from upline distributors, and when they received unsolicited advice from their accountant, they disregarded it. During the years in question, Mr. Lopez was employed full-time as a petroleum engineer, and Mrs. Lopez was a homemaker.

The tax court ultimately was not persuaded that the Lopezes' primary motive for conducting their Amway activities was for income or profit. It found that the conduct of their Amway activity “virtually precluded any possibility of realizing a profit.” The Lopezes' lack of a business plan for recouping losses and achieving profitable levels of activity indicated the absence of a profit motive. In the face of four consecutive years of losses, the Lopezes still did not change their approach to increase the likelihood of earning a profit. The tax court further found that the Lopezes did not conduct market research to help them assess the potential profitability of their activities. It also noted that, although the Lopezes had no prior business experience, they accepted the advice of upline distributors rather than seeking advice from unbiased, independent business sources.

Since the Mr and Mrs Lopez appealed, they got to lose twice.

OGDEN v. COMM., Cite as 87 AFTR 2d 2001-1299
Michael A. Ogden, et ux. v. Commissioner, TC Memo 1999-397
Contrary to the Ogdens' contention, evidence of profit is not determinative of whether a profit motive exists. See id. at 876 (no single tax regulation factor, nor the existence of a majority of factors, is determinative of whether a profit motive exists). There is overwhelming evidence in the record that, if believed, supports a conclusion that the Ogdens maintained their Amway activity for deductions, personal pleasure and to offset wages. The tax court did not abuse its discretion in denying the motion for reconsideration.

Amway does not have a quota for sales, its products do not have to be sold above cost, and its distributors are not required to sponsor downline distributors. An Amway brochure, The Amway Business Review, states that the potential for earning income increases as the number of distributors in a sponsor's group grows and as sales increase. Distributors devote as little or as much of their time to Amway activities as they desire. The eight page Amway Business Review in large blocks on four of its pages highlights the fact that “The Average Monthly Gross Income for “Active” Distributors was $88.”

We believe Amway distributors may be biased when discussing Amway because they have a natural desire to advance the organization and/or obtain income from a downliner.


ELLIOTT v. COMMISSIONER, 90 TC 960

Deductions denied for business expenses and depreciation connected with Amway distributorship. Activities were conducted in unbusinesslike manner, taxpayers maintained full-time jobs, and little distinction was made between Amway activities and personal social activities. Also, IRS properly imposed penalties for failure to timely file and negligent or intentional disregard of rules.

A further indication of the unbusinesslike fashion in which petitioners conducted their Amway activity was the thin line dividing business activities from personal and [pg. 973]recreational activities. Petitioners offered scant evidence that their Amway activity required them to do anything other than to maintain an active social life. Although they occasionally attended seminars, most of their activity involved giving parties and taking people out to restaurants. While there is no requirement that profit-oriented work be onerous and unpleasant, the evidence presented by petitioners does not indicate activity motivated by a profit objective. On the contrary, the evidence shows that petitioners made some small modifications in their routine social life, kept cursory notes about their activities, and claimed deductions for the cost of nearly everything they owned or did. On this record, we find as a fact that petitioners' activities were motivated by a desire to avoid tax rather than a desire to generate income.

Roger S. Campbell, et ux. v. Commissioner, TC Memo 2011-42

Activities not for profit—profit objective—distributorship and direct marketing activities. Code Sec. 183 deduction limits applied to expenses pro se married real estate and construction business operators claimed in connection with Amway distributorship activity that they engaged in without requisite profit objective. Lack of profit objective was shown by facts that taxpayers commingled expenses, had no idea if they were making profit for any given year until they filed that year's return, didn't keep complete records, and otherwise didn't conduct activity in businesslike manner. It was also telling that taxpayers didn't have experience in this type of activity, didn't seek out independent advice, used activity losses to offset their real estate and construction business income, and stated that they would continue with activity regardless of whether it ever turned profit. Countervailing facts that they spent significant time on activity and increased gross receipts during years at issue weren't dispositive considering overall record

Amway Testimony?

 A blog visitor sent me this email in the past. It might be helpful to some people, so I'll post it.  There are some spelling and grammatical errors, but so be it.  

We were part of what im coming to find out as a smaller more unknown team in our region. I’ve run into many Amroids since I first joined until now, and they’ve always seemed to be part of N21 or BWW or WWDB but im not sure if our group was any of those? We were part of something called the UR Association. I believe through some unspoken issues years ago in upline, our group was adopted either to Dexter Yagers organization or from his organization. Its never been fully or properly explained to us. Anyway, my upline always had CDs from multiple organizations teaching systems, and we purchased them all. This was because we partly refused to sign up with URA and partly because we just didn’t have to money for that type of monthly fee. We weren’t on Kate either because of this. When my significant other (SO) and I first joined almost 4 years ago, we were typical for this business; broke, unemployed, and young. We went through the paces or coming out to the meetings as guests for free, attending some product expos, etc, until one day it started costing us as guests (we were still evaluating at the time) to attend the regular open meetings. Foolishly, we figured “well we might as well sign up then!”



Looking back now, all the signs were there for us to see since the start. After we got in, our uplines group slowly fell apart. I don’t believe I’ve ever seen his group grow or be on the rise since I joined. I was told of the glory days just months before of how there were over 100 people in his group attending functions, all the pin levels on his team, the recognitions they’ve received, etc. When we joined and he was on the decline, we thought nothing of it, as it was played off as normal and that “Some Will, Some Wont, So What, Some Where, Six Will, so Stop Whining, and Start Working”. We also attended a major Family Reunion shortly after officially signing up and again, the signs were always there, but we just never noticed. That function that we went to was the largest our upline Diamonds organization was we’d ever see. Our open meetings slowly began getting smaller, and we had to increase ticket costs to “pay for the room”. It went from an open meeting every 2 weeks at $5 to an open meeting once a month at $10. Over the years it started switching locations as well, from one hotel conference room to another, and now it is currently held at a Condo, in the main floors’ lobby room (I believe there is still a cost incurred)



One of the CDs that we were always so “keen” to listen to was one by a young diamond from the US, who built a good portion of his organization in Hawaii and in the western states. He’s young, funny, relatable, and therefore an obvious hit with our young group. Anyway, on his CD he mentions that the only “negative thing that can be found online about Amway is that we allegedly make all our money off books and CDs”. Im loosely paraphrasing, but basically he went on saying “…like that’s a bad thing. Think about it, what's the first thing you do when you are successful at something? Golfing, any sport, a business? Don’t you write a book, cut a CD and go on public speaking events?!” Which of course when twisted around it does seem to make sense, so we never really questioned it. We thought Wow these are totally honest about it! Theres not really much else to write about at this point, like I said earlier, a lot of your blogs were 100% correct about what still goes on. The mind games, what uplines say, what's said at opens, all of it. My SO and I reached a max of I believe 300/400 PV and 200PV respectively. SO had a slightly larger group (we were building it separately at the time) with maybe 5-6 downline at its peak, and I had maximum 2. We’ve been in it for 4 years and have seen no results. Despite having no money for monthly subscriptions to books and CDs, we were core. We tried our best to get the proper 50/150, we always used all the products and promoted it like crazy. We tried contacting all the time and showed plans whenever we could. We listened, read, attended all functions, were accountable, honest, and the only thing we didn’t have was Kate. But the results were never there. Even with the amount of downline each of us had at our maximum, we still never broke more then 300-400PV. It just wasn’t happening. Since we’ve stopped, I have purchased a new(er) car, 2010 top trim, and with a 1 year delayed gratification goal, we saved enough money for a destination vacation paid for in cash. We spared no expense while we were there and bought all sorts of gifts for our friends and ourselves. We are also planning more trips in this coming year.


There are little details here and there im sure i could mention about the really crazy BS we've been through, but perhaps another time :) we're in a phase right now of not thinking about it or dealing with it.

Thanks for reading!

"Anon"

Business Principles Ignored?

 So many IBOs quit and fail, I think the Amway corporation might need a calculator to keep track. And of the IBOs who work and try hard, most of those IBOs also end up in failure and losing money. After years of blogging about Amway, I believe it is because the uplines and the tools they sell to help IBOs are ineffective. When I was an IBO, I don't recall many tools that contained information teaching me how to run a business or how to run an Amway business. There was no talk about tracking income and expenses. In fact, our group was advised to ignore the facts. The scary thing about this is that it is evident that some groups are still teaching this.

Many IBOs and prospects are lured into the business by displays of wealth and not because of bonafide and verified business credentials. A friend of mine sold his franchise business a few years ago and part of what he provided to the prospective buyer was the last three years of his tax returns, personal and business returns. But try asking an upline to even see a business profit loss statement or a schedule C business tax return and you are likely to be told it is none of your business. Instead, upline may show off a photocopy of a bonus check which may be an annual or a once in a lifetime bonus. Or upline may show off a sports car as evidence that they are successful. Sadly, some of these uplines might be broke, they may owe back taxes to the IRS and/or they may even be in debt but simply showing off wealth.

Some uplines have the nerve to discourage young people from furthering their education because they would rather, they channel their money into Amway and tools. Some people are told to make family sacrifices to attend more functions or to buy more standing orders. I will grant that not all uplines do this but based on my experience, I would say more uplines do this than not. They will apply subtle pressure on new IBOs and the newbies probably don't know much about Amway or business, so they basically have to choice but to trust a diamond who has allegedly achieved the pinnacle of success in Amway. Then uplines will often betray their disciples by saying that failure is the personal responsibility of the IBO. That advice needs to be discerned by the new IBO and bad advice should be discarded, as if a new IBO would know what good or bad advice is.

I also see experienced IBOs who don't seem to know how taxes work. I see IBOs who were given the impression that Amway is easy and that they will work once and enjoy the fruits of their labor forever. Oddly, I don't know of a single IBO who did the work once and sat back collecting residual income forever. I find it odd that even tenured crown ambassadors continue to keep busy work schedules. I suppose they could just enjoy this lifestyle but still I find it odd that nobody I know of could specifically name an IBO who achieved diamond and higher and sat back collecting income while enjoying the beaches of the world.

Seems that IBO turnover and failure is more common than not in the AMO world. It also appears that incoming IBOs are like fuel to a fire. Without continuous recruitment and replacement of IBOs who quit, the organization would eventually fall apart along with the bonuses that the higher ups enjoy. It is my informed opinion that many IBOs fail because they aren't taught sound business principles. Despite the constant flow of cds, voice messages and functions and meetings, it doesn't seem as if any practical information is passed from upline to downline. Only messages of never quitting and continuing to dedicate themselves to the system. The result is inevitable and the expected result is failure.

Legitimacy?

 I've debated with some IBOs about retail sales to customers in the past. While many Amway IBOs claim to have real customers and to teach retail, the reality seems to paint a different picture. Even an Amway corporate blogger at one time wrote a piece stating that sales to non IBOs were 3.4% of Amway (Quixtar) sales some years back.  I don't even believe that the Amway run blog/forum is even around right now.  Apologists will say that many IBOs are actually customers who only buy stuff and do not build the business. While there might be some IBO customers, I highly doubt that the majority of IBOs are paying renewal fees just to buy soap and overpriced vitamins.

I know some groups have their schtick down. They will say they "teach" their IBOs to have sales to about 20 customers which gives them a monthly income and allows them to qualify for a PV bonus. It certainly sounds great, but I would bet that IBOs with 20 actual regular customers are about as common as a founder's diamond. In many groups, the IBOs are taught to "buy from themselves" primarily. Thus, the income generated for the diamonds simply comes out of the pockets of their downline IBOs. Sadly, "serious" IBOs often wind up paying their upline (via tool sales) to learn that this sham is a good idea.

I can prove right here that IBOs are not focused on selling products. The focus is on selling the opportunity. How can I prove it? Very simple. Every single time I have seen or heard about the Amway business, there was talk about the economy, inflation, etc. The speaker talks about his easy lifestyle, and how he made it big by capitalizing on an opportunity, the Amway opportunity. Then the 6-4-2 plan or some similar variation is shown to the audience. It is shown as "simple", "reasonable" and "doable". The plan is about making money, typically six figures at the diamond level and a decent income at the platinum level. There is little mention about having to sell products, and little or no mention about the actual products that Amway carries. The hype in the meetings is to sell the opportunity. Sure, after the plan is over, a prospect might be given some samples and such, but the emphasis is still on the business opportunity. The products are usually a side note in the presentation.

While IBOs might talk a good game about selling products, the reality is that many active IBOs have very few actual customers. It is my informed opinion that even the few real customers are often sympathetic friends and family of the IBO, rather than people who are genuinely seeking Amway goods and services. I wonder if anyone in Amway has ever "shown the plan" by starting out with product presentations and samples? When you really think about it, unless the business has real customers, all you are doing is exploiting those you sponsor for their personal consumption, which might benefit your business a bit, but won't benefit your downline unless they can dupe others into joining them.

So, take a real look at your business. Are you actually selling goods to outside customers or are you engaged in a personal consumption game? My understanding is that an IBO does not qualify for a bonus without sales to actual customers. Are you legit or not?

You Need Amway To Fight The Four "I's"?

  One of the Amway pitches used by upline was the four Is.   The upline would give a recruitment speech about how the four Is (I) would suck the life out of you.  Now you might be wondering what the heck I’m talking about?   Well, the four Is are insurance, interest, income tax and inflation.  Each of these factors basically made your job futile as you would never be able to overcome these issues because of the limitations of a job.  Or at least that's what Amway leaders want you to believe.

Most everyone has various types of insurance, typically car, home (or renter's insurance) and possibly life insurance where you pay for something you hope you will never need to use.  This expense is depicted as a necessary evil that helps make people broke.  Next you have interest.  As many or most people are in debt, you wind up paying interest.   You pay interest on any debts you have but receive very little of it for your money in the bank.  Uplines often claim diamonds pay cash for everything, loans are stupid because you need to pay interest, and Amway will make you debt free and living a cash only lifestyle.  Total BS.

Then you have income tax.  The government makes sure they take a piece of your earnings to provide public services and taxes seemingly only go up but never down.  You can’t escape paying taxes.  It’s the only sure thing in life besides death.  Lastly there’s inflation.  Luckily with interest rates, they seem to be slowly coming down and inflation is also starting to get under control, but the common denominator is that all of the four Is take pieces of your income.

What gets weird from here is how upline will toss you a pitch to justify how someway somehow, Amway levels the playing field and by doing Amway you can overcome the four Is.  I find it odd how so many IBOs miss the fact that they are cash negative directly attributable to Amway and the related Amway tool and function sales.  But somehow this important point gets missed by so many IBOs sitting in the audience as if it goes right over their head, or upline downplays it as a nothing burger.

While the uplines may give a slippery way of pitching Amway, anyone with common sense and the ability to do some basic general math should be able to see right thru the charade.  How can a cash negative proposition help you with the four Is?  The answer is it can’t, but you need to be able to discern the forest from the trees to see through upline deception.   Also, when you sit and think about it, how does an Amway business help you to deal with these issues?    It only makes things worse if you have more negative cash flow.  This is why I've stated that doing nothing is likely better than Amway.  LOL

Most Do Nothing?

 I saw some recent discussion and some people were debating the average income of Amway IBOs and how $202 a month (average IBO income) as reported by Amway is a lot considering most IBOs do little or nothing. Well, that $202 a month average income survey many years old. Somewhat laughable when Amway defenders like to hang their hats on the possibility that Amway critics claims are outdated. Maybe Amway defenders should complain that Amway's own information is old and outdated. I wonder what updated numbers would reveal.  An even smaller average income?   

Also, what many people are not aware of is that the average income figure as published by Amway, excluded IBOs who did nothing. It only counted "active" IBOs, although Amway's definition of active can leave you scratching your head. Amway describes active as someone who attended a meeting or attempted to sell products. However, we know that unless you actually sell something, you won't make anything and certainly attending a meeting takes money away from you and is not a way to earn money in Amway. Let me also add that Amway diamonds are also a part of the average income, so the "average" is very likely inflated by the six-figure income of the diamonds.

To me, the biggest question is why do so many IBOs get interested enough to sign up and then do nothing? It is my informed opinion that there are several reasons why this happens. I believe that some IBOs are such pests, that their prospects sign up just to get their IBO sponsor to leave them alone. While it may not be common, I believe it happens. Also, I believe some IBOs go into shock when they see the prices of some products. This will cause newbies to realize that the business is nearly impossible before they even get started. Or, a new IBO will go and talk to family and friends about Amway and will get shot down because in North America, just about everyone seemingly had, or knows someone who's had a bad experience in Amway. Sadly, the experience may not be a result of Amway the corporation, but of unethical IBOs who may lie, cheat or trick people into attending meetings. Some IBOs actually get started but soon realize that that Amway opportunity along with the systems such as N21, WWDB or BWW, simply becomes a money pit with the tools and system expenses exceed the monthly Amway income. A few IBOs will bite hard and stay dedicated for a few years or more. Many of these IBOs end up reporting losses that may exceed tens of thousands of dollars.

Sadly, many IBOs and prospects are recruited by family and friends. Thus, even if they quit or have a very bad experience, they just quit and disappear. Folks generally will not file complaints with Amway or the Better Business Bureau (BBB). So IBOs, even if you did little or nothing in Amway, if you got ripped off or treated unethically, you may want to consider filing a formal complaint with Amway or with the BBB. So why do so many IBOs do little or nothing? I believe the answer is crystal clear. Most IBOs do little or nothing because it's not worth the effort for most as very few IBOs will ever attain any kind of significant income. In fact, doing nothing is likely to get you a more favorable result than someone who attends the functions or who subscribes to standing order because doing nothing is cheaper than being an IBO and paying for tools and functions.

Why Joecool Blogs?

 Over the years, I've had comments left here, some deleted and some published, with IBOs and/or Amway supporters calling me names and accusing me of "bashing" Amway. I believe that these folks are misguided. If you carefully read my blog posts, many are not about Amway the corporation, but are aimed at the abusive practices of certain AMOs, or the groups that sell their system of tapes, cds, books, KATE, and functions. I believe that Amway the corporation is somewhat culpable as they did not reign in the abusers, but still, it is certain LOSs who teach bad business practices and give IBOs bad advice, which incidentally, costs the IBOs money.

Joecool was once upon a time, an Amway IBO, and officially quit Amway sometime in 1998. The name quixtar was already floating around. I quit, got on with my life and basically forgot about Amway. But more and more, I discovered that my upline leaders had been liars and had seriously misrepresented the business. I am from the era where upline leaders told us that nobody made a cent from the tools, which is now known as a lie. They told us that diamonds pay cash for nearly everything, which includes homes. We know that is a lie. Based on what I heard about my sponsor, I believe it is still taught as my sponsor, who is a physician, is still renting a small home in a rural area on Oahu. I started to participate on the now defunct Quixtar blog to learn more about the tool scam, and I started blogging to be able to help others learn about what I had discovered. My blog used to get thousands of visitors each day, although that is no longer the case. I have helped many people over the years who benefited by the experiences and information that I have shared. I do not receive any financial compensation for blogging.

For those who call Joecool a loser, let me talk about some things I have accomplished in life sine I quit Amway. I received several promotions at work, and recently started a new job where I was offered a pretty nice salary.  I am now retired and I'm only in my 50's as of this writing.   I own my home (I did not pay in cash, LOL). I bowled a 300 game, made a hole in one, and ran several marathons. I'm just an average middle-class citizen in Hawaii. I started Joecool's blog in 2006 or so. My old blog has been deleted as the host did not maintain the site well and I eventually got hacked and sabotaged. I started this current site on blogger in late 2009.

I am not here to "steal" anyone's dream. I am not here to "bash" Amway. But Amway, the business opportunity is one where most people do not make money to begin with. Add in the expenses for tapes, cds, voicemail and functions and you have almost a 100% chance of failure. Yet some upline leaders will promote Amway as a easy shortcut to retirement with a surefire chance of success if you dedicate to the system. But the system does not work. There is no bonafide evidence that the system works. This is what Joecool's blog is about - primarily the systems and its problems.  And to expose the many lies uplines use to bait and hook their faithful downline into buying tools and functions.

Integrity?

 I used to follow the blog of a WWDB IBO named "Shaun". He runs the blog called "Expeditions Of Truth" http://expeditionoftruths.com/..  The blog is not running as Shaun has now quit Amway (imagine that?  He swore he would be a double eagle ruby making will over 100k.  What could possibly go wrong?)  Now to be fair, Shaun was likely a hard working guy trying to do what was best for his family.  But he got duped into selling out for Amway and probably saw the light and quit.

He seemed to think that not only is he in business with people full of integrity, he also thought that he was going to retire in November 2011. Is this now March 2026?  While I think doing business with people of integrity is a good thing, I also know of many successful people in business who are ruthless.  Sometimes in business, you have to be that way to survive and thrive.  So are Amway and in particular, WWDB people full of integrity or are they just as ruthless as other business people? Does it matter? In my opinion, it doesn't matter except for the fact that WWDB people seem to think that they have integrity filled leaders.

Well, let's look at some of these leaders. Back in the 1990's before the easy access of information on the internet, the current batch of WWDB leaders swore that nobody made a profit on tools. Nobody knew the truth at the time. We now know that this was a lie. Is this integrity? We know that a triple diamond in WWDB  was in chapter 7 bankruptcy proceedings. Not paying for your obligations is integrity? We know that the same triple diamond and another lesser diamond had homes foreclosed (Public information). Is that a move filled with integrity? With the tons of money that diamonds  make, couldn't they have made an effort to pay off their debts?
If you look at a blog linked to this one "Rocket's Rants", there's a YouTube video of a "crown" telling rank and file IBOs that they can make "hundreds of thousands of dollars" a month. First of all, I wonder if this crown has achieved this himself, let alone any others? Even if someone had achieved it, it would be illegal or unethical to portray that kind of success as achievable to a a prospect.  

A prominent double diamond used to talk about how WWDB had a low divorce rate. Is it full on integrity for WWDB leaders to separate or divorce when they talk about integrity and how Amway and WWDB saves marriages? What about other WWDB diamond divorcees?  Are they full of integrity? What say you diamonds in WWDB?  Is it integrity to say you built the business as a single when the diamond previously built the business with his former wife?  (The Danziks)

Amway's owner Rich DeVos acknowledged that the "tools" were likely a pyramid scam and Amway did nothing after sales dropped following some attempts to clean it up. Is that an integrity move? I don't know but it sure seems as if WWDB and Amway have issues where integrity is concerned.

Cash Only?

  When I was an Amway IBO, I was always taught that diamonds always pay cash for everything.  Paying interest on loans or financing is a bad idea right?  According to diamonds, even buying a home in cash is the way to go.   They also taught that one day, after following the foolproof WWDB system, that I too, would be strolling on the beaches of the world, with cash rolling into my bank account with no worries in the world. We were told that diamonds pay cash for all purchases, even homes and other large ticket items. As evidence, the diamonds would show slideshows of mansions and sports cars, golf club memberships and other lavish items. All paid for in cash we were told. I have reason to believe that WWDB still teaches this except that it is probably a bunch of lies.

First of all, in looking back, the group really had no way of knowing what was paid for or not. We just assumed that diamond made so much money that everything the diamonds spoke of were true. However, there have been events, some recent, that exposed some of the apparent lies told by these diamonds. There were two (2) diamonds whose home foreclosures became public knowledge and a prominent triple diamond who was involved in bankruptcy proceedings. Now your home cannot be foreclosed if it's paid for in cash right? Technically, nobody would care whether a diamond's home was mortgaged or paid for, but when diamonds parade in front of a crowd bragging about wealth, and then telling the audience that they too will achieve the same success by following the system and upline advice, well that's a bit misleading in my opinion. So many people in the audience are practically crying because they want what the diamonds are flaunting, except that possibly, many of these diamonds don't even have what they are selling.

A average diamond might make about $150,000 (according to Amway for non Q12 diamonds) and let's just say another $150,000 from selling support materials. When you factor in taxes and business expenses such as travel to and from functions, what's left over certainly is not going to allow you to purchase million dollar mansions and fancy sports cars, much less in cash.   Some higher up pins might make a bit more, but still, purchasing mansions and other luxuries in cash is a stretch. It would be my guess that most diamonds indeed have a mortgage on their homes and may even have car payments. That's not necessarily a crime but it is unethical to lie about your income in order to recruit new downlines.

For IBOs and other newbies, if your uplines are bragging about paying for homes and other things in cash, ask them to show proof of these claims. I can show you pictures of multi million dollar mansions and sports cars, it doesn't mean that I paid for them in cash. But then again, admitting to having a mortgage or having monthly car payments are not quite as attractive or exciting as claiming to pay for these things in cash.

Building Wealth On 8-12 Hours A Week?

  One of the myths that our upline used to, and likely still perpetuate is the silly claim that you can build an Amway mega empire on 8-12 hours per week. I'm venturing an educated guess that this number is used because while it still represents time, it is probably less hours than working a part time job. But let's take a closer look at this 8-12 hours per week.

If you listen to one (1) cd/audio per day as recommended by upline and read one of their "success" books 15 minutes each day, you already close to nine hours of time used and neither of these activities produces any income for your Amway business. In fact, both activities cost you money and produce no tangible result and no income. If you spend another 15 minutes a day contacting people, you are close to 12 hours per week. Where will you find additional time to show the plan and to expand your name and contact list? What about servicing customers, at least for IBOs who actually may have some customers. If you spend 8-12 hours of non income producing activities, how will that turn into financial freedom? The answer is simple. It doesn't. That activity primarily benefits your upline diamond who profits from selling you cds/audios or function tickets, or voicemail.

What about attending meetings and functions? These are also non income producing activities. It's no wonder the vast majority of IBOs don't make money. Their upline has them running around participating in activities that produce no income for their businesses. Ironically, there non income producing activities such as listening to a cd, produces a lot of income for certain uplines who produce and sell them. To me, it is just an elaborate game of bait and switch played by upline. Attending functions and meetings are promoted as learning activities but again, how does it benefit an IBO to spend money instead of making money?

You sell the prospect the dream of financial freedom. You tell that that Amway is their best chance. You tell them that you can help them and that the tools of the business (standing order, voicemail, books, functions) are the key to their success. Those who are serious enough to commit to the system likely won't quit without making some effort and will allow uplines to earn some nice profits before these downline eventually realize they aren't profitable and quit. Because many IBOs are sponsored by family and friends, you don't see many formal complaints about the business. Most people chalk it up as a life lesson and do not complain or file complaints.

But IBOs and information seekers, do not be fooled into thinking that you will create a financial empire by working 8-12 hours a week. Look at your return on investment and/or your profits and losses at the end of the month. What you will see is a consistent net loss because of the system and no profit, also because of the system.

How The IBOs Get Duped?

  In my informed opinion, Amway is a huge bait and switch scam run by the diamonds. The crowd sees the diamonds as someone to be worshipped. They arrive to standing ovations when they appear to show the plan and/or to speak at a function. The diamonds speak of untold wealth beyond the reach of most people. They show slide shows of fabulous trips and events that they attend and possibly golf outings and other fun things that are associated with people who have money. The diamond often has some sports car or a nice sedan such as a Lexus or Mercedes. And all of this alleged wealth comes from Amway. Just join and get the secrets to wealth from the diamonds and you too will be living in fabulous wealth. 2-5 years, build it right and build it once is what I heard.

But it's a bait and switch scam. They show you wealth and speak of their large incomes (without verification of course) and people tend to believe what they are told. The diamonds claim to have the key to the secret of success. All you need to do is get plugged into their system and you are nearly assured of success. Right? Listen to those diamonds. They are the pinnacle of success and all you need to do it copy what they have done. So simple even a dog can become a platinum. All you need is 2-5 years, do it right and do it once and you're set for life.

So, you subscribe to their system of voicemail, books, standing orders (audios/CDs), meetings and functions/seminars. In the teachings, the theme seems to be similar. Never quit, and the answer to most Amway problems are to consume more tools and functions. If you are struggling and losing money, the solution seems to be to invest more in tools and functions. It's like a struggling business spending more on overhead without simply trying to increase sales. This is why so many IBOs quit, because they struggle to make sales and/or to sponsor downline. Despite all of the teaching and tools and seminars, it is apparent that very few IBOs make any profit.

What people don't see is that the Amway business itself is just a shill for the real business. Amway IBOs unknowingly recruit prospects into Amway thinking they can make a fortune in Amway. In the meantime, the diamonds are raking in the dough by selling monthly subscriptions for voicemail, books, audios and meetings and seminars. Additionally, the diamonds put on a "major" function each quarter where they can make possibly hundreds of thousands of dollars in a single weekend. I believe some diamonds make way more income from the tools and functions than from Amway. A diamond is a lifetime achievement so someone could qualify diamond for 6 months, never qualify again, but still make a nice living from speaking honorariums and selling other tools. The tools business is the real business. The Amway business is like a "front" to conceal the real business, much like the Italian restaurant is a front for the mob. The restaurant is a legal business that helps conceal the illegal activity. And that my friends, is the Amway bait and switch scam.

The Loch Ness Monster And Sasquatch?

 "Build it right and build it once" and collect residual income. Work the business 2-5 years and go diamond and be able to walk away from Amway while collecting residual income. Now what does that have to do with the Loch Ness Monster or Sasquatch? Well, Amway retirees who walked away from Amway while rolling in the big bucks are legendary and many people have heard about them but like the other legendary monsters, nobody has ever provided Bonafide evidence of their existence. Sure, lots of people have heard about these things but in all my years, not a single shred of solid evidence.  That goes for Amway diamonds who "walked away" to collect residual income and the Loch Ness Monster and Sasquatch.  

I once had a debate with (at the time), Amway's biggest defender:  IBOFightback AKA David Steadson about these Amway retirees and he claimed there was a long tenured emerald who had a trust fund set up through Amway. So, I called it an unsubstantiated claim unless he could provide details about this trust fund. Of course, he couldn't provide any evidence other than his word, which is not worth a cent in my book. Also, we don't know what kind of income is derived from this alleged trust fund. Afterall, it takes big bucks to fly first class to exotic beaches around the world to sip mai tais while walking them. And isn't that what the diamonds and other big pins advertise in functions? It's all about lifestyle and financial freedom, right?

Well, in my opinion, these legendary Amway retirees do not exist. Why not? Because for one thing, an exotic lifestyle with mega luxuries cannot be had on 100K or 200K per year, which is what you would be lucky to have when you stop building Amway. Think about this, if about 50% of your downline quits each year, how can the residual income keep coming unless these IBOs are replaced?  Also, a large portion of a diamond's income comes from tools and functions, but I would presume that you would no longer receive speaking fees if you're not speaking. And there are other examples of diamonds quitting and resigning from Amway. Now why would anyone quit or resign and leave residual income on the table? It's because more than likely, there is no residual income. It's an urban myth.  You can easily google and look up diamonds who have quit or resigned.

So next time you see an IBO spouting off about Amway retirees and lifelong residual income, ask them to name 1 or 2 people who achieved it with some supporting evidence. That's when the insults, excuses or dead silence will begin. Is it possible there's someone out there collecting some residual income? Well, mathematically it's possible but when you factor in attrition and keeping in mind that 2 crown ambassadors died while still working Amway, you'd have to wonder where the truth lies. In my opinion, there is no true residual income. Because in Amway terms, that would be getting something for nothing, with IBOs claim doesn't exist. And these Amway retirees are as easy to find as a Sasquatch or the Loch Ness monster. Lots of people know about it, some claim to have seen them, but not a single shred of credible evidence.

Joecool out!

Trading Hours For Losses?

 One of the ways that upline diamonds would put down jobs was to toss in the phrase that a job was simply trading hours for dollars. As if it were demeaning to have a job where you got paid for your time. I believe it's all relative. Being that many IBOs are young and maybe working in more entry level types of jobs, then yeah, your hourly wage might not be that great. If you earn say $10 an hour, then you might be struggling financially, and it may take time before your skills and knowledge increase to a point where your experience is worth more money. What if you had a job paying $1000 an hour and earned $160,000 a month? Is that a lousy deal trading hours for dollars? I think your perspective would change if that were the case.

Conversely, having a business can be good or bad also. If you have an Amway business earning less than $100 a month and you spend $200 monthly or more, on functions, standing orders and other training and motivational materials, then you are losing money. You would be better off working for free. That is still a better alternative than working a business where you are losing money. I think most people agree that a platinum group typically has a 100 or more IBOs. Thus a platinum is in the top 1% of all IBOs. I have heard that the platinum level is where you start to break even or make a little profit, depending on your level of tool consumption. If platinums are barely making a profit, then the other 99+% of IBOs are likely losing money. How much is that worth per hour?

I think uplines cleverly trick IBOs into thinking that a job is bad. Trading hours for dollars, after all, sounds like some kind of indentured servant of sorts. But in the end, what matters is your bottom line. If you are an IBO with little or no downline, and/or not much in terms of sales to non IBOs/customers, then you are losing money each and every month if you are attending functions and buying standing orders. Your 10-12 hours a week of Amway work is costing you money! But if you spend 10-12 hours a week, even at minimum wage, then you might be making about 300 to 350 a month gross income. After taxes, you make about 250 to 300. At least trading hours for dollars gets you a guaranteed net gain at the end of the month.

Uplines trick you into a "business mentality" where you think that working for a net loss is just a part of business. IBOs should realize that a business promoted as low risk and no overhead should be one where you can profit right away. Instead, IBOs are taught to delay gratification, or to reinvest any profit back into their business in the form of tools and functions, which results in a net loss. If that's the case I would choose trading hours for dollars.

Remember, trading hours for dollars is not a bad deal if you are making enough dollars per hour. And even those who make less, are better off that those who "run a business" but end up with a net loss. It's all relative and hopefully, this message will help new or prospective IBOs who are being enticed to join the Amway business opportunity. Good luck to those with jobs and those with businesses. You can be successful either way. Remember that!

The Reality Of Amway?

 One of the things that keeps some Amway IBOs going is the "harsh reality". What I mean by that is for some IBOs, once you have been in Amway for a while, it can be hard to quit. You were possibly recruited with dreams of lifelong residual income and walking on all of the exotic beaches of the world. Retiring young and spending that time with your wife and family, and Amway friends. To quit means an IBO would have to face the reality that these dreams will not come true, at least not with the Amway business. The fact is that the Amway opportunity probably would not have delivered those dreams anyway. Even a diamond more than likely cannot afford those dreams. In fact I would estimate that most diamonds, if they flaunt some excessive lifestyle, are near broke or in heavy debt as a diamond income cannot sustain a jet set lifestyle, save for a founders double diamond or something similar. I believe the prominent WWDB triple diamond bankruptcy shed a lot of light into the finances of an upper level pin and it wasn't as impressive as I would have thought.

The triple diamond who filed for chapter 7 bankruptcy made about half a million dollars annually from Amway. That's a great income and more than most people earn, but seriously, a half million dollars income is not going to allow you to buy mansions paid for in cash, or a fleet of sports cars. After paying taxes and business expenses, I'm not even sure someone with that kind of income even lives a worry free life of leisure. And we're talking about a triple diamond, not your average run of the mill regular diamonds who I would safely assume, earns much less than a triple diamond.

But what really is the harsh reality? It's working hard only to drift between 100 and 500 PV. It's finally sponsoring a new IBO only to have a downline quit. It's talking to people about Amway and getting laughed at or getting rejected. It's your upline or sponsor pushing you to do more. Possibly your upline is one who questions your manhood if you aren't working hard enough. It's your upline or sponsor reminding you that a winner doesn't miss functions, especially the major ones. It's staying up late for team meetings or night owls when you need a good night's rest to do your job the next day. It's driving the miles to show a plan, only to have your prospect not show up. It's having to be deceptive about what you are doing. It's skipping functions with family and friends so you can be core to the business.

As IBOs, do you see any of this? I saw some of this during my involvement. While I have not been an IBO in some years now, I still see many testimonies and comments by more current and even some active IBOs to indicate that a lot of this still goes on. While Amway defenders will deny it, I see no reason why any of this would have changed over the years since Amway has made no significant changes to stop abusive uplines. If Amway did make any changes, they are not immediately apparent, and the continuous string of comments and testimonies do not confirm that any clean up has been done.

For active IBOs or prospects, these are the harsh realities that may be attached with the Amway opportunity. Much of it is because of motivational groups such as WWDB, but if you are seeing these traits in your group, ask the tough questions. If you happen to decide that the Amway opportunity is not for you, take heart! There are other ways to achieve your financial goals and dreams and there are more efficient ways out there. Sometimes, quitting something that isn't working is a wise business decisions and sometimes you can lose more by not quitting. Good luck in whatever you decide.