Upline Credentials?

 I recently read a comment from an Amway apologist on another forum. She mentions that someone's credentials must be considered when looking at information that is presented by critics. I will comment that showing me a sports car or a fancy suit is not proof of financial success. Telling the audience that you buy homes in cash is not proof either. In fact, some of these boasting diamonds were found to have their homes foreclosed and some had financial difficulty, even though they at times had shown off pictures of their lifestyles. I believe that many diamonds are likely to be more like the general US population - in debt. In debt trying to portray a lifestyle that is unsustainable with their Amway and Amway related income.

I find this subject ironic because not one single upline leader, as far as I know, has ever supplied bonafide credentials about themselves. The audience assumes that the person on stage has success and certain credentials, but do they really? I will say that certainly, if someone is wearing a diamond pin for example, that this person has at least achieved the diamond level as recognized by Amway, but the level may not be current, and the level doesn't indicate the kind of income this person earns from Amway. (Joecool is criticized for being outdated even though I was at 4000 PV at one point in my Amway career)

What many people assume is that the diamonds buy homes and cars in cash, that they wake up at noon every day and participate in leisure activities all day while the cash rolls in. I have heard from some new IBOs, that their upline makes more money taking a crap in the morning than a critic makes in a whole year at a job. That IBO became quiet when some critics offered to take that bet. (Do the math people)

But the truth of the matter is that as far as I know, only former diamonds have come clean about their Amway income. They are the only ones who spoke of credentials and accomplishments. Even critics of Amway will often openly speak about their experiences and achieved levels in the business. In the REAL business world, showing business tax returns and credentials are a normal part of doing business. It appears that only in the world of Amway is the supply of credentials and financial statements a big secret. Now I am not suggesting that IBOs or upline leaders should disclose their financials to the entire world, but certainly prospects and some downline should be able to see how their upline is doing financially in Amway, especially if that is the basis for purchasing their standing orders and function tickets. And I refer to business (Amway and Tools) income and expenses only, not from other personal sources.

I believe that IBOs and upline leaders do not disclose that information because it would not be beneficial to them. If it were, they would likely publish it freely, just as they flash around copies of checks. IBOs and prospects should take this to heart and ask upline the tough questions

Endless Training?

 I believe that Amway IBOs have approximately a 50% attrition rate for the first year alone. If you look at a 5 year window, I believe the attrition rate is something like 95%. So what we're saying is that out of 100 IBOs, only 5 will be around in 5 years, or out of 1000 IBOs, 50 will remain after 5 years. This is extremely significant because if you are a business builder, you will need to replace half of your IBOs every single year. For this reason, I am very doubtful that there are IBOs who "built the business right and built it once", who no longer do Amway related work, but still collect significant residual income. I would guess that significant income could be defined as being enough to live a lifestyle in the top tax bracket (for the US) without having to report to a J-O-B.

Now I understand that some IBOs take it personally when I bring up subjects like this. It is because they have been deceived by some upline diamond or big pin who has sold them on a dream of financial prosperity for life if they will only work hard for 2-5 years. I once thought so too, but realized that there isn't a single diamond that I know of who built the business right and walked away to enjoy the beaches of the world while truckloads of money rolls in. Kind of makes you wonder why you see Crowns still working, and diamonds actually quitting or resigning. I have asked the question many times and it has never been answered. Can anyone name a few people who built their business right and built it once who is currently enjoying these lifelong residuals? Also, if that were a benefit, why doesn't Amway say so?

Instead, you have a constant and endless flow of motivation being sold to IBOs. This motivation comes in the form of cds, books, meetings, functions and other things like voicemail messages. It's sad that IBOs have to continue to pay through the nose for motivation and "teaching" about the Amway business when there are cheaper and more efficient means of communication. For example, why would you need an expensive voicemail when a facebook group account can disseminate messages to your group in seconds at no cost? It is because the uplines want to extract every possible cent from their downline. Because of the internet, I believe people are starting to figure things out and avoid the systems altogether. I hope Joecool's blog contributes to this.

All the motivation IBOs truly need is to see a net profit at the end of the month. If IBOs actually earned an extra $200 a month, or $50 a month, or $600 a month as advertised, there would be no need for motivational speeches. The IBOs would simply look at the growth in their finances and they would keep going. The poor retention rate is easy to explain. IBOs are losing money because of the system expenses and they lose their motivation to continue. If you are an IBO or a prospect, stop and think for a minute. If you are making an extra $200 a month with minimal effort, would you need functions and other materials to motivate you? Or would you have intrinsic motivation from the profit? All the motivation you will ever need is a net profit. Take that to the bank

The Real Business?

  I have been reading some ongoing debates about whether the system income for higher pins is more than their Amway bonuses. I believe the systems such as BWW, WWDB, N21 or LTD, does generate more profit for upline than the sale of Amway products. How the system income is divided though, is still a mystery as it doesn't appear that there are bonafide written contracts explaining how tools income is split up among the higher pins. There is also the debate of whether diamonds themselves or their "corporations" receive the profit, which is laughable as a defense.

But it's very easy to determine that more income is made from the system than from Amway. If you move $100 worth of Amway products, Amway will pay about $33 back in the form of bonuses. These bonuses will be split among the Amway IBOs (middlemen), depending on your level. On the other hand, if your group bought say 20 cds at $5.00each, the system will profit about $90 as cds cost about 50 cents to a dollar each to produce in bulk. Some Amway apologists will cite the fact that some groups sell cds for $2.50 or $3.00. While this is true, there is a "member's fee", such as WWDB premiere club, which must be paid. And when you add in the member's fee, the profit for the system is the same or possibly higher! Even when you factor in the system employees, you can easily see the math and determine where the real money is made.

If you buy a major function ticket for $125, the cost of that function might be in the neighborhood of $25 to $30 per attendee, so the system may generate $100 profit on a $125 sale. I believe the smaller functions such as open meetings, books and voicemail have smaller profit margins, but still overall, it's easy to conclude that the profit from the system is greater than profits generated by moving Amway products. I might add that the sales on these functions are often made in cash, thus who knows if the diamonds are even paying the IRS taxes on these sales.

The only question is how much each individual earns. I have "heard" that platinums get a discount on the sale of standing orders and cds, but I have never heard of a platinum sharing any profit for functions, voicemail, or any of the other materials. This is puzzling to me as I believe the platinums do the most work in the system, helping downlines. The platinums are the backbone of the system but unless they break through and become a higher level, they earn pennies for their efforts.

So for the lower level IBOs, if you move $300 in Amway sales (Approximately 100 PV), you will receive about $10 or 3% while upline enjoys the rest of the $90+ in bonuses from Amway. And then when you purchase and move tools volume, you receive nothing and some of your uplines enjoy all of the profit. While I don't see any problem in upline making a profit for selling training materials, I see a problem in the fact that the tools are ineffective. So few IBOs progress to levels where an actual profit is earned that the use of tools cannot be justified. Amway supporters will point out the new platinums emerging each year, but do not mention the platinums who do not re-qualify and platinums who outright quit because they are bleeding money.

Based on my observations, I can only conclude (quite easily) that there is substantially more profit from the sale of support materials for upline to enjoy, and I can also conclude that the support materials are ineffective in training downline IBOs so they can progress to higher levels of the business. But as PT Barnum once said (allegedly), a sucker is born every minute.

Visit A Diamond?

 Some blog visitors have in the past, and recently, advised me to go and visit with a diamond or a platinum. That spending time with someone in the business would give me a different perspective. I'm not sure what my visitors thought I would accomplish by doing this. As an IBO, I spent countless hours with my upline platinum and on many occasions, my upline diamond. My honest opinion is that they were just average everyday people who made their living in a different manner than most. Their homes weren't fancier, they didn't drive special cars, they didn't have the kind of material wealth that's often portrayed in functions and meetings. and that's fine.

What I would challenge prospects and IBOs to do is just that. Ask to spend time with your upline platinum and/or diamond. You are likely to find ordinary people with ordinary lives outside of the business. So many people think that the upline platinums and higher live in the lap of luxury and it's not true, unless they are living beyond their means or unless they have other sources of income that is not Amway.  I do believe that many upline leaders do live beyond their means. It is because showing off material wealth is a vital part in attracting and retaining IBOs. You show them material wealth and get people to dream about achieving the same thing in order to sign them up for Amway and the associated tools and training business. Sadly, the vast majority who register and attempt to build an empire will end up quitting, and most of them, especially the ones who attended the functions will end up with a net loss, even if they put in extraordinary amounts of time and effort. Sure, some people may eventually achieve higher levels in the business but they are the exception and not the rule.

In normal and in real business, one way to prove your results is to open your books and show your financial details. Your upline of course, will tell you that it is none of your business, but if you are being asked to invest your time and money into a business opportunity, you have every right to demand this information. If your prospective sponsor refuses to supply this information, it should be a red flag that they have something to hide.  Now I'm not saying you should see their personal data, but a schedule C business filing seems a reasonable request.  It seems that many IBOs embellish their income claims or try to change the discussion. They may even produce a photo copy of an upline's bonus check, but that proves nothing. What prospects and IBOs should demand is a profit and loss statement. It would give an idea of what expenses someone can expect as an IBO and what kind of income can be expected at various levels.

Joecool has no reason to visit a diamond. But I would certainly say that IBOs and prospects should do so. You might be surprised to find that a diamond is not "all that" when you see them up close and personal.

Reap What You Sow?

 One of the things that many prospects and IBOs believe is that they will make an investment of time and money into their Amway business and that they will eventually get their time and money back in such abundance that they can walk off their jobs, and walk the beaches of the world while living in luxury because of lifelong residual income, all because of the Amway opportunity. For IBOs and prospects of Amway, I wonder if any of you can actually name even five people who have actually accomplished this? How about two? Keep in mind that there have probably been tens of millions of people who also wanted this and tried Amway and the systems, only to find that reality paints a different picture.

Many people they will reap what they sow. While that many sound true, I guess the next logical question is what are you sowing? Are you deceptive when prospecting people to see the plan? Are you having to justify and high priced Amway product comparisons that are not favorable? Are you actually selling goods to customers and actually qualifying for your Amway bonus or are you self consuming and getting others to do the same? Do you have a negative opinion (broke losers) about people who don't join Amway or are not interested in seeing the plan? Do you now think your boss and your job are evil? Do you leave your kids at home to attend endless numbers of functions and meetings? You reap what you sow correct? The questions is what kinds of seeds are you actually planting?

I wonder what some WWDB diamonds were sowing? At least the ones who had their homes foreclosed, and one in particular was involved in chapter 7 bankruptcy proceedings? Are they reaping what they sowed? What about the WWDB diamonds who got divorced? What were they sowing? Are IBO sure about wanting to make the claim of reaping and sowing? And yes, Joecool the person also has his own flaws, but the difference is that I am not on stage proclaiming to be flawless and many diamonds would imply when they speak (and profit from) their tens of thousands of downlines. I am not earning a living by deceiving people and profiting from people I am supposed to be helping. But your upline diamonds are. Take a close look at the fruit on the WWDB tree.

Things Prospects Should Know?

 When I was an Amway IBO, my upline used to advise us to recruit people who had a financial need or young people who were open minded as they may not have preconceived ideas about Amway. When I was recruited, I was not where I wanted to be financially as I was in my 20's when I first got recruited by my sponsor. I believe that this is still common practice today, to look for people who are in need and then offer Amway as a solution. Sadly, Amway and the tools systems will more likely become a problem than a solution for the vast majority who try.

In my opinion, this is why some people defend Amway so fiercely. They accept Amway as their solution for long term financial stability and to admit that they were in error is difficult as it would not only expose the error but would leave the IBO as not having that "hope" of long-term financial freedom. It's hard to admit you got fooled or scammed and some people will dig in and press on, hoping that success will eventually come. Hope is a powerful thing after all. However, for most, it is false hope that is pitched in recruitment meetings and functions.

Many prospects see big dreams when the diamonds parade on stage with designer suits and talk about waking up at noon and enjoying a lifestyle chock full of luxuries. It's almost like dreaming about hitting it big in Las Vegas or winning the lottery. I can't fault prospects for wanting some of these things. I know I certainly had some of these same dreams when I was an IBO. The problem is that Amway is highly unlikely to be the vehicle that delivers these dreams. For most, a second job along with saving and investing will bring more long-term success. The problem is that people don't like to wait for the long term and Amway is presented as a short cut to success.

The sad reality is that some (maybe most) diamonds are simply putting on a show, like a illusionist or a magician. Diamonds may indeed earn a six-figure income, but after taxes and other expenses such as medical insurance, a diamond is very likely to live a very middle-class lifestyle. Now I'm fairly sure that a crown ambassador type may have a million-dollar income, but these Amway crowns are very rare, and the ones who exist have been in the business for a long time. There is not much chance of any new IBO coming in and achieving that level. In fact, as time rolls on, it seems that more diamonds drop out due to divorce, better MLM opportunities or simply quit. It is apparent that long term residual income is a myth. Why do crowns seemingly keep working if they could "walk away" and live a life of luxury with no worries?

Amway reports that the average IBO earns $202 a month. I believe that number is also questionable as "most" IBOs (as shown in 6-4-2) actually earn more like $9 or $10 a month. Is this what you are signing up for? Don't forget about the ongoing expenses for tools and functions which results in net losses for most who get involved.

Amway prospects can benefit by knowing this before signing up.

You Love Your Job?

  One of the things I heard WWDB speakers say on more than one occasion was that nobody "loves" their job. They claimed that if you loved your job, you would do it for free. But that claim is silly. I could turn it around and ask the Amway diamonds if they loved Amway so much, would they do it for free? They might lie and say yes, but the fact remains that these folks are not traveling from function to function out of love. They do it because speaking at functions is a lucrative "job". Additionally, the functions are recorded and turned into a standing order, which is then sold to IBOs.

Truth be told, I am somewhat dedicated to giving information to Amway prospects and information seekers because I don't want them to get ripped off based on lies and deception by upline leaders, who apparently still teach the same old junk today, that was taught many years ago. Amway apologists have their heads so far up her fanny (ass) that they cannot tell up from down. Apologists claim that WWDB is changing for the better, despite participating on a blog by a WWDB IBO who repeats the same garbage I heard as an IBO 13 - 14 years ago. There's a seemingly nice kid named Shaun who runs his blog as a journal of his WWDB experiences. There he speaks about getting out of debt (No apparent thanks to Amway income) and saving up to purchase a home in cash, getting a bigger tax refund (despite claiming to make money in Amway) and he also mentioned that IBOs have a 2% divorce rate versus the rest of the world with a 60% divorce rate. All of these things were taught by WWDB uplines back in 1997 and 1998 when I was an IBO. It's all there for everyone to see, yet stupid people like Bridgett Baron continue to deny it. What is their agenda? Clearly, the vast majority of people who join Amway either do little or nothing and those who work hard usually end up losing money because of the system expenses such as voicemail, functions and standing orders. That is a fact. IBOFB and Bridgett Baron are apparently not interested in facts, but they want to promote their version of the "Truth About Amway".

I would also like to point out that my former uplines and WWDB leaders such as Greg Duncan and Brad Duncan apparently did not work out of love. Even though some WWDB leaders outright lied and said Diamonds did not earn anything from tools, we now know that they lied and that they are/were likely compensated for every single appearance and that rank and file struggling IBOs footed the bill.

Yes, people don't work their jobs out of love. Everyone needs to earn a living, but don't be fooled. Diamonds do not work for love either. They work, likely because they also have to earn a living, just like people who have jobs. Just because they may show you pictures of mansions and sports cars doesn't mean they own them outright or that they can even comfortably afford them.

It is very sad that so many people over the years, possibly tens of millions have suffered financial losses as a result of inaccurate information or deception and lies used to recruit people into Amway. While it may not be (directly) Amway's fault, the fact is that many these people had bad experiences and financial losses. The facts are there for those who seek the facts. It is why Joecool hasn't yet quit the blogging community.