Dreams?

 One of the things that Amway leaders use to attract new IBOs is to talk about the dreams that these folks have. They may talk about how having a job will wear you out and dreams that you once had as a child or young adult gets suppressed and/or completely forgotten. They try to revive some of these dreams in the hopes that they can convince prospects that Amway is the only way, or the easiest or best way to accomplish these dreams. They also try to instill the notion that people can choose to succeed in Amway. Being that success in Amway has so many variables out of the direct control of an IBO, nobody can simply choose to make it big in Amway anymore than they can choose to win the lottery. And by the way, the chances of going diamond and maintaining it is about as remote as winning a lottery.

What is somewhat cruel is reviving dreams that for many, will never come to fruition, no matter how much work is done, and no matter how many tools are consumed. There are many instances where no matter how big the dream, it will never come to pass because of physical and financial limitations. For example, as a child, many of us had dreams of playing professional football, hockey or basketball, and living in the glory of winning. However, no matter how many hours you put in and no matter how hard you work, the vast majority of people will never be pro athletes. And even out of the ones who become pro athletes, very few are considered "elite".

Yet the Amway promoters will have people believe that just buying a few products and selling a few products and 2-5 years of "hard" work, people will join the financially elite in the world. As if home care, beauty and nutritional products moved from person to person is going to make you achieve your dreams. That you will quit your jobs and walk the beaches of the world while the cash rolls in by the barrel full. Sadly, many young people become attracted to a proposition that allows them a shortcut to retirement instead of working until age 62 or whatever the standard retirement age is. They are basically promoting false hopes and promises to the vast majority of people who get involved. I believe those who are deemed as "dream stealers" might be doing their family and friends a favor by stealing their dream, which will not come to pass anyway.

With about 1 out of 240 IBOs reaching platinum (the alleged break even point) and about 1 in 20,000 IBOs reaching diamond, the dream is a stretch indeed. Even for the select few who can overcome major challenges and hurdles, maintaining their status often becomes impossible and and not worthwhile (many diamonds have quit).
Also, if you do make it, you will leave behind a trail of people who could not or did not come close to that level of success. It means that in many cases, your success will come at the expense of those you sponsor. It is why many claim that Amway is a legal pyramid.

Having dreams and goals is a good thing. But do you want to accomplish your ultimate dream by hurting (financially) those who trusted you and agreed to be your downline? Is it your dream to go diamond and have 500 to 1000 or more downline IBOs losing money? Is it your dream to be wealthy by exploiting people who trust you and believe that they can achieve the same level of success, when the opposite is true?

What is your dream? Are you willing to hurt others to achieve it?

A Letter To Amway?

 This is an open letter basically explaining Joecool's position and why in my opinion, criticism of Amway doesn't stop. 

Dear Amway,

Why does criticism of Amway continue Ad Nauseum? Because you have not taken any apparent visible action(s) against higher level IBOs (Usually Diamonds) who make their living by ripping off unsuspecting prospects and faithful downline by feeding them lines about how easy it is to build an Amway business and how they can ditch their jobs and live on easy street. I saw it and there are countless testimonies and experiences posted on the internet.

When I was an Amway IBO in WWDB, we were fed outright lies by upline. Nobody made any money from tools being the biggest. Downline were taught how long they could string out their mortgages or electric bills so they can attend functions and buy more tools. Yes, IBOs have culpability as well, but the culture of these groups is one of trust and loyalty to the diamonds. Amway's owner, Mr. DeVos acknowledged this in his 1983 speech "directly speaking". But despite the speech, no apparent visible action was taken, thus status quo continued. Even the accreditation system which seemed nice on the surface appears to be a farce. I believe that possibly millions of people over the years have been adversely affected financially because of some of these Amway IBO leaders.

Many of the same leaders who lied to benefit themselves are still at it. A fellow blogger named "Rocket" at one time, reported a possible violation where crown ambassador and IBOAI member, Brad Duncan is caught on tape claiming that IBOs can make "hundreds of thousands of dollars" a month in Amway. Your response was to make non sensical remarks and then eventually no response when pressed for one. I also reported a WWDB IBO who was making disparaging and false statements about some competitor's products while making misleading positive statements about Amway products. Your response was no response and my comment wasn't even published on your "Amway Answers" blog. Ironically, one of the topics on that blog was about how Amway doesn't turn a blind eye to problems. Yeah, you can say it but your actions show something else.

Maybe someone can explain why actions in other countries indicate that the folks who sell Amway tools are scammers. For some reason, the regulatory agencies in the US have not taken notice of the tools business. The Dateline segment in 2004 exposed the tools and systems. It became a big debate on the internet with critics and proponents. While Amway can claim innocence because the unethical actions were taken by IBOs, or "independent" business owners, I still believe that Amway has a responsibility to reign is some of the sales force that represents them.

Food for thought: Joe Paterno was an assistant and head coach, an icon at Penn State University for more than 60 years. He was fired some time ago because he had knowledge of child abuse occurring at the program under his watch. While he was not personally guilty of this, and did many good things for Penn State and the community, still his inactions may have caused harm to befall innocent children. Ultimately, he had the ability and power to stop the wrongdoing but did not. It is a sad ending for a man who many consider a legend. I wish his family well.

Amway can reign in the tool abuse and take control of some of the bad leaders, but apparently has not and will not. The fight goes on.....

The Phenomemon?

 http://scamadvocates.com/164-Amway.html

Other November 27 

"""I have read all of these posts. Interesting that everyone who supports Amway cannot spell very well. Lots of typos and grammatical errors in here by those who jump up and down reciting Amway's many virtues. It is a scam and a groupthink phenomenon of staggering proportions. From a psychological perspective, Amway does its best to separate people from those who would challenge its legitimacy and operations. This is not unlike how Hitler or any other leader would silence opponents or dissidents by having them "removed" from the equation. Same thing goes here, Amway teaches people to ignore and remove obstacles and people who challenge the system, even if said challenges are completely rational and offered by people with the IBO's best interest in mind. It hits IBO's in soft spots for family, friends, and freedom (the 3 F's), and it entices them to focus on emotional reasoning rather than very cognitive-based, rational dissection of information.

Amway IBO's are taught emotionalism, not rationalism. From a business perspective, it is a farce. IBO's are no entrepreneurs, as they wear the collars of their uplines. Over and over, I have been told to do as my uplines say. What if my upline is a total moron and I have a law degree and an MBA?? I'm supposed to follow these uplines?? According to the system, yes, the uplines' words are paramount. So no, IBO's are not entrepreneurs and do not gain any real experience. IBO is a fancy name for distributor, pure and simple.

I had the opportunity to meet a number of "diamonds" and "emeralds" recently, all of whom had either left the business to get real jobs or were still struggling bringing in about $30,000 per year. Many of them are posting massive losses, and by the way, the IRS does not consider pro-suming OR tickets to a convention (to hear Yager scream at you) to be business expenses. Good luck trying to recover those losses. It is a pyramid scheme simply because mathematically and considering the law of averages, a downline cannot really earn more than his upline. It just doesn't happen - it's a nice idea, but it doesn't happen. I worked through multiple scenarios with a friend, trying to see how I could out-earn my upline, and we found several variables that would keep that from happening.

Finally, on a personal level, this Amway monkey business cost me a great friendship, an IBO who decided that taking a chance on some crazy dream was more important than those who loved him most. I think he will continue prospecting and pushing "the plan" until there isn't anyone left. If you know someone in Amway or who is thinking seriously about it, you need to realize that they will soon be lost. Amway people are very much like crack users (very similar psychopathology, actually), and they will choose Amway over you, their family, their friends, and anything that gets in the way."""

Failure By Design?

 Many people, including Amway IBOs and prospects see the 6-4-2 plan or a similar version when they are being recruited into the Amway business. The plan consists of 79 IBOs, all who actually earned a bonus with 1 person being platinum and the rest earning significantly less. Now I can say with virtual certainty that nobody has ever built a group with that many people who all went out and actually earned a bonus. This is because most IBOs do little or nothing and many join and never order a single product.

Thus, we know that someone who actually achieves platinum PV). For round numbers, let's say an average platinum group has 150 IBOs. Already we can determine that a platinum is less than 1% of the Amway population and the rest mostly earn little or nothing. While the platinum might earn some decent money, a hardcore dedicated platinum can still lose money because of the "system" consisting of voice mail, CDs, books and functions.

Just by analyzing what I've discussed thus far shows that a platinum group would typically consist of 100 or more (most likely more) Amway down lines and therefore the platinum is firmly in the top 1% of IBOs. This demonstrates that Amway is failure by design. If there are 2 platinum groups, then it's 2 guys on the top each with a group of 100 or more downline making little or nothing. A diamond consists of 6 of these groups with the diamond making good money with hundreds if not thousands of downlines making little or nothing. If some day, the entire planet signed up for Amway, guess what? Nothing statistical will change.

When I used to see Amway announce 1000 new platinums, all it means is that there are 1000 new people with groups where the vast majority makes little or nothing. Many people get excited about Amway thinking they will be the platinum and "make it big" but even if they do, they have a group of downline making little or nothing and taking losses if they are on the system of CDs and functions. You can have smart, motivated downline but it doesn't change the fact that Amway leads to failure by design, as does most other MLMs where you are always recruiting new people. Recruiting is priority because in order for you to reach the top, you also need to find your 100 or more downline who make little or nothing (or losses) in order for you to succeed.

Many people think they have what it takes to "make it" in Amway but that doesn't change the reality in what can be extrapolated from Amway's own business disclosures.  For example, the average income of any IBO in Amway is $202 (last I checked).  But that $202 is only for "active" IBOs.  Approximately half of all IBOs are not considered "active, so the real average income is roughly $101 a month.  And that $101 a month include the diamonds, double diamonds and crown ambassadors.   I can't explain every nuance and "what if" about this average income, but I think you get the idea.  

Level Playing Field?

 The Amway business is a level playing field. At least that's what my upline told us when I was an IBO. That everyone starts at zero. While that is somewhat true, there were other factors that existed, that most IBOs did not know about. That factor is the possibility of PV manipulation. I believe that groups that are/were not on direct fulfillment (Groups still calling in and picking up) are able to transfer PV around. Thus, certain groups or favored downline could be manufactured into higher pins. I believe most groups are currently on direct fulfillment, but I did confirm, years ago that some groups still are on call in and pick up.  If not for products, they still did call in and pick up for tools.  

But let's examine the concept that everyone starts at zero. While this aspect may be true, certain people are simply better at selling, or better and more adept at socializing and talking to others. So while your PV count may be zero, the skills needed to start and run a business is not a level playing field for most. I believe uplines state this to give prospects the idea that everyone has an equal chance at succeeding in Amway. I just cannot believe this to be true. Even current diamonds, while having achieved a certain level, probably could not "start at zero" again and build a diamond business.

Thus, when you really think about it, the "old timers" of the diamonds should actually be given less credibility than the newer ones. Do you really believe that a diamond or higher pin who built his business in the 1970's can really teach people in 2026 how to build the business in a way to address people in 2026, and the fact that the business is mostly internet based as opposed to the old days, not to mention the advance of social media, text messaging and other modern forms of communication.

It is easy to stand on stage, tell people how great you are, show off material wealth and then tell prospects that everyone starts at zero and that anyone can build the business. I do not believe that it is true. I also strongly suspect that very few (if any) of the current diamonds would be able to "start at zero" and build a new diamond ship here in the US, where the reputation and shrinking sales would be handicaps too great to overcome for the vast majority of prospective IBOs. I recall back in 2005 or 2006, WWDB had a commitment for personal growth amongst the diamonds and above. I do not believe much fruit was grown out of that effort. The diamonds had committed to duplicating their groups to prove it could be done. Not a single one of them, as far as I know, advanced to a significantly higher level (i.e. diamond to double diamond).

The Symbiotic Relationship?

 Over my Amway and blogging experience, I have come to a conclusion which I will stand by. And this, in my informed opinion, is a significant problem with the Amway opportunity. The Amway owner, Rich Devos acknowledged this issue back in 1983 in his "directly speaking" tape and unfortunately, nothing apparently substantial was ever done and therefore, the problem exists today.

The Amway opportunity is one part of the issue, with the tools systems being the other prong. Over the years, the Amway opportunity and the tools systems have formed a symbiotic relationship. It is as if Amway needs the system and the system needs Amway. What I mean is that Amway provides the opportunity, and then the system uses the opportunity to sell the system. In the meantime, the system leaders teach 100 PV, product loyalty, and do most if not all of the new IBO recruiting. Amway benefits as the system teaches movement of PV whether by sales or self-consumption, and new IBO recruitment, and the system leaders benefit by having a captive audience to sell their cds, books, seminars, voicemail, and website fees.

A conflict of interest occurs when uplines tell their new IBOs that they "need" to attend a certain function, or that they "need" standing order to succeed. The upline is smart enough not to say the system is "required", but certainly, they will put a defacto requirement by saying things such as nobody has ever succeeded without the system, but you can try to be the first, or they may say the system is optional, but so is success. Or someone may say so and so diamond (insert) name is a multi-millionaire and he advocates the system, but you can go against his advice if you think you know better.  On the surface, you'd almost have to be nuts to avoid the system after hearing stuff like that.

The bigger problem is that these upline leaders will tell you that you basically cannot succeed without these tools, but at the same time, the more tools you buy, the more profit these uplines make. Some Amway apologists will justify this by saying a college professor may sell his own books to his students. But this is not the same thing. A college professor may spend years researching to write that one book. He will be teaching his expertise that is written in the book. When you attend seminars or listen to cds, you do not have one expert guiding you with clear documentation on how they succeeded. You have very general generic experiences coming from various speakers who may or may not have any common background with IBOs. Thus, these upline leaders will profit from their downline IBO volume and also from tools that they advise downline to purchase regardless of downline success or progress in the business.

As evidence of these bad practices by upline, consider this. If upline truly has "valuable" information that would help you succeed, they would get that information to you in whatever means they could. Either by email, Facebook, twitter, text message, MP3, YouTube or whatever. Why would they withhold trade secrets if they really wanted your success? Has it ever occurred to IBOs that maybe uplines don't want your success? Maybe it is why you must pay for any piece of advice or support you receive. Maybe upline is perfectly happy with people coming and going as long as there are tool purchases because then there are no new IBOs (platinums and up) to share the tool profits with.

There is a definite conflict of interest with profiting uplines advising you to buy tools. The question is whether you see it or not?

Just A Customer?

 I've been debating with others about the concept of customers. Amway's most prolific defender argues that IBOs are customers and holds the position that there are alot of people who register with Amway simply to be customers. Now I don't know how anyone can possibly make that determination, but regardless of whether it's true or not, these folks are still considered IBOs. I don't want to debate the legal ramifications about the 1979 FTC ruling and the 70& rule, although the spirit of the rule was to prevent IBOs from buying their bonus. in the 2016 FTC ruling against Herbalife, the FTC said sales to distributors do not count as retail sales and required Herbalife to changes their operations because of this rule.

Amway apologists apparently contend that IBOs who purchase and then resell to downline are meeting the sales requirements and the downline are customers. Okay, let's go with that. But wait, IBOs do not buy and then resell to their downline. IBOs order directly from Amway do they not? If IBOs order directly from Amway, their upline gets some volume credit for downline purchases but the upline doesn't buy and then resell anything to downline. So, are IBOs actually making any sales to non-IBOs, save for sympathetic friends and family?

If in fact, IBOs are not selling their goods, and are primarily self-consuming them, it means that most of the upline bonus is basically generated from the pockets of the downline. I believe the tools business is a product pyramid as only IBOs are buying standing orders and attending functions. The lack of selling Amway products to the public would put the Amway business opportunity in pretty much the same category. I wonder what the FTC would rule today if that were the case? I wonder what the FTC would rule on the tools systems as it is today?

Something to think seriously about. If you are an Amway business owner, and you are selling little or nothing, where do you think your bonus comes from? It either comes from your own pockets, or it comes from taking advantage of your downline, who then pony up a portion of your bonus from their pockets. In a system such as this, the only way to maximize your bonus is to recruit as many downlines as possible. Because the more people you can leverage, the more bonus you can get. The problem with this system is that people realize they aren't making money, and that paying in some cases, ridiculous high prices for "prestigious" soap and vitamins is not worth it, and they quit. When these folks lose their Amway dream of mansions and jets, they somehow lose their desire to keep making purchases.

If former IBOs kept on buying Amway goods, then Amway sales would climb pretty much every year as the former IBO's purchases coupled with current IBO purchases should keep going up, not down. But that's not really the case is it? In what business can the employees or company owners be the primary customers and prosper. The answer is none and Amway is not an exception.

Avoid The Name "Amway"?

 I often find it comical that to this day, I still see people who like to hide the Amway name when recruiting others. I believe this tactic has been a major factor in why Amway has a bad reputation in North America. When I was recruited, I was lied to as well. I was invited to a "beer bust" only to find out it was an Amway meeting. I went home that night thinking WTH was that? They lie to us and then expect us to join the business. And to this day, I believe this practice continues. They might use another name such as "Liberty Marketing" or "Worldwide Group" to mask the opportunity they are pitching. My question is why?

Over the years, IBOs have tried all kinds of ways to disguise the Amway opportunity. In the past, it was network marketing, e-commerce, online shopping mall and the corporation even changed Amway in North America to "Quixtar". Sadly, the name change to quixtar did not work, probably because the same tactics were used when recruiting new IBOs into Quixtar. Amway eventually changed the name back to Amway. I believe this bad reputation in North America is why Amway, in years past, enjoyed the most business growth overseas where people either do not know the Amway name, and likely because there haven't been enough former Amway/AMO victims to soil the name in other countries. As markets mature and people get to know about Amway, we se what is happening now. Amway revenues have plummeted from 11.8 billion in 2013 to 8.8 billion (global) in 2016. That's a serious decline!

So IBOs, how can you expect someone to trust you and do business with you if you are deceitful or outright lie about the Amway opportunity? Are you ashamed of the Amway name? If you are ashamed or scared to drop the "A bomb" on people, how will you ever be able to show any plans, let alone sponsoring anyone into the business? My former sponsor used to tell our group that the biggest challenge is overcoming the name Amway. To be fair, Amway the corporation is not the reason for the bad reputation. It is the unethical and bad behavior of IBOs that lead to a bad reputation but on the other hand, it's not the like Amway police have been cracking down and visibly taking action against the violators so Amway is also guilty to some degree.

Conversely, people who come right out and talk about Amway are unlikely to net any decent results either because of the past reputation. It's an almost no-win situation for IBOs and prospects. For these reasons, I believe it to be nearly impossible to build and maintain a group, especially if your goal is to reach diamond. It seems as if more diamonds have left Amway in recent years than there have been new diamonds. I believe this to be spot on for WWDB, my former LOS. So IBOs, are you ashamed of Amway? If not, why are there still so many IBOs using trickery and deception in recruiting prospects?

If you avoid using the Amway name, what are you ashamed of?

The Sad Reality?

 Comment left on Happy Franchisee blog:

http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/will-amway-make-you-annoying/

mary on December 5th, 2011 10:35 am

My husband and I were involved in the Amway/Quixtar business for 13 years. We worked very hard, attended all the meetings, reached the direct level, and made very little money. Thank God for Dateline. We were convinced that this was a reputable business,the people were great….so we thought. Then we found out the truth. The majority of the money that was told to us was suppose to be on the products and sponsoring /helping others,l was actually made on the books,tapes and seminars. You know they tell you that the speakers take the time from their families to give back to the business. Totally false ! The speakers are paid to perform. That is how they make money. Please believe me when I say that you are not being stupid just convinced by people you trust that you will make money. We went to our sponsors and told them we know how they are making money. We watched Dateline , years ago and still could not believe how we were tricked. It is sad that people will continue to believe this opportunity will produce millionaires. Most of the people in our upline were sued by other people and eventually went on to another scam. I know you will find this hard to believe. I did too. I am now reading all this information and at one time felt the same way. Again you are not stupid… just misinformed. We worked long hours, left our children with sitters, argued with our family , and listened to our upline to not believe the internet. If you make money at this business it will be on the books, tapes, seminars and speaking. We could not comprehend how our upline could have lied to us… they were good people that also got caught up in the lies. It is really difficult to listen to someone speak highly of this business, I know I would defend the products and the system too. I also thought I knew what was going on but I did not know the truth. Find another way to make money you, will be glad you found out now.

Uoline - The Root Of Many Evils?

 Over the many years of Amway's existence, their reputation in the US and North America in general, has tanked. And it's not all due to Amway the corporation, but rather Amway IBO leaders who teach and condone unethical behavior. Of course, I don't know of any significant measures that Amway has taken to discipline some of their wayward IBOs, but that's another story for another day.

During my blogging career, I've seen young people who were discouraged from attending college so they could build an Amway business. I've personally seen people go bankrupt and lose their homes because they followed the advice of their all-knowing uplines. Sure, people have some responsibility for their actions but I feel as if some of these kinds of actions by some IBOs and IBO leaders is predatory and focuses on people who can least afford to funnel money into the business and the leech teaching systems such as WWDB or Network 21.

I've seen ridiculous product claims such as people claiming that bottled water could cure ills and make you athletically superior. Of course, this water costs about $50 a case when you could buy 10 cases of water at Walmart for the same price. They claim superiority in their vitamins without unbiased scientific evidence to support their claims. Perhaps that is why the Amway vitamins seemingly are consumed nearly exclusively by IBOs themselves.

Despite claims by Amway supporters and IBOs that things are changing in Amway for the better, there is plenty of evidence that nothing has changed. Outrageous income claims. I thought the Dateline show exposed some crazy stuff with an IBO leader claiming that people could eanr $250K per year with a part-time effort, but then my friend Rocket finds this gem with an IBOAI member and crown ambassador in WWDB/Amway claiming you can make hundreds of thousands of dollars a month: http://rocketsrants.blogspot.com/2011/09/amway-guys-they-sure-say-stuff.html

I wonder if Brad Duncan himself even makes that kind of money. Ironically, his triple diamond brother wasn't even close to that when his bankruptcy papers were exposed a few years ago.

So, to Amway prospects and apologists, the Amway corporation itself may be perfectly legal and clean, but the root of many evils comes from Amway uplines and AMO leaders. It is for this very reason that many get turned off just at the mention of the Amway name. Amway can stop them, but will they?

IBOs And Taxes?

 I came across this blog and while I've seen similar posts by Amway business owners, this one was interesting because of the detail and the passion the blog author has. In a nutshell, he lost money in Amway but calls it success because after he received his tax refund, he's now claiming to have a net profit. It's amazing what these Amway/WWDB leaders can get people to believe.

https://transparencyofadreamer.wordp...sing-in-amway/

Below are excerpts. The blog owner claims to have made a net gain due to a tax refund. He doesn't explain how he arrived at that refund but apparently his losses in Amway lowered his tax liability for whatever income tax was already withheld from either his paycheck (job) or from paying estimated taxes in advance for a business or some other venture. It's quite scary and illustrates how some people can hang on in Amway for so long even when suffering losses. The IBO's are programmed to "think" they actually made money!

Based on what they have taught me, even though I barely had any increase in my overall organization (ie: I was pathetically lazy, didn’t put any work in and barely increased the size of organization – #sadface) I STILL DID NOT LOSE MONEY!

2013 total Cost Run Down:
Communikate: $443.40
Digital Delivery: $300.00
Premier Membership: $599.40
Major Functions: $595.00
Major Function Hotels: $750.00
Business Support Materials: $240.00
Total Business Cost: $2927.80

Lets bring it all together here, folks.

Total Amway Payout in 2013: $2112.36
Total Cost To Run Business: -$2927.80
= $-815.44

Just like I said last year – “Oh No! I’ve been scammed! I’ve lost money! My upline lied to me! I didn’t put in any work to sponsor anyone this last year and its everyone’s fault but mine! The business doesn’t work! What a total scam!!!”

Hold on now Mr. Negative – Due to running my own business in a country that incentivises business owners to run their own business I received tax benefits that entitled me to a refund for the 2013 year in the amount of $2409.76. Lets do this again, shall we?

Total Amway Payout in 2013: $2112.36
Total Cost To Run Business: -$2927.80
Total Tax Refund For 2013: $2409.76
= $1594.32

So, as I wrap up I hope I made my point very clear – you will not lose money running your own Amway Business powered by World Wide Dreambuilders…. IF you are diligent with your finances, if you don’t blow your budget your coach sets with you. You WILL lose money running your own Amway Business powered by ANY training system IF you don’t have a budget, if you don’t ask for help to set a budget, if you ignore your budget etc.

If your potential sponsor is affiliated with WWDB and is doing what they are taught, you should be educated on some of the numbers I shared above in regards to cost for access to your training and mentorship system.

A Viable Business?

 Over the years I have been debating with Amway supporters, I cannot see what is so great about the Amway opportunity. Are some of these Amway defenders that stupid or dense that they truly believe that a business where one out of a few hundred people might make a profit and most of the remaining IBOs will lose money is a good opportunity? I'm not talking about people who sign up and "do nothing". Many IBOs sign up and put in a great deal of time, effort and money, only to find out that the system simply does not work (especially in the US) and they make a business decision to quit and/or to do something else.

Of course there are some people who make money in Amway. If nobody made money, then the opportunity would cease to exist. But it is basically exploitation of the downline that accounts for upline success. Amway's admission that sales to non-IBOs are low, confirms this. Thus, certain upline make their income from their downline's PV volume, and on tool purchases. I mean even a lottery has winners. Even Ponzi schemes and other questionable opportunities have some winners. This is not to suggest that Amway in not legal. Amway is perfectly legal, but the way the opportunity is set up, those who profit, primarily do so at the expense of their trusted downline.

There are no groups that I know of where all the IBOs can win and earn a profit. I would guess that there might be a few rogue groups who only focus on retail sales, and while these groups can be profitable as a group, they are few and far between. This is because most IBOs fall under an LOS such as WWDB, BWW, LTD or N21, and these groups all seemingly focus on recruiting of new IBOs. Yes, they may sprinkle in some suggestions about selling goods, but generally speaking, their "training" materials consist of motivation speeches, feel good stories (whether true or not), and the theme of never quitting while continuing to purchase more tools.

Some upline have the nerve to start teaching downline that their Amway business is not about making money, but to save your marriage, make you a nicer person, or some other diversion to make you forget that you are losing money month after month after month. Some groups even mix in religion and politics into their functions and meetings. As far as I can see, the typical business building IBO signs up, gets some of the tools and attends a few functions, and finds that the products are hard to sell because they are not priced competitively with other retailers, and that a damaged reputation is nearly impossible to overcome. These IBOs realize they are not going anywhere, and they walk away, chalking up the losses as a life lesson. But apparently, many uplines who lied and deceived in the past are continuing to do so today, often just revising history for their benefit (i.e. lying about making any profit on tools).

Many IBOs, prospects, information seekers and critics read this blog. My question is very simple. What is so great about the Amway opportunity? For most, it is just a bad use of time and money. While some may exist, I don't know of a single person who "did the work once" and sat back collecting barrels of Amway money while sipping Mai Tais on the beaches of Jamaica. I see crown ambassadors working as hard today as they did many years ago. Diamonds losing homes to foreclosures, a prominent diamond in bankruptcy proceedings, and a hoard of WWDB diamonds apparently selling off mansions that they allegedly paid for in cash. (It is quite possible that their lifestyles are simply not sustainable).

Where is the benefit in the business for the typical IBO? Just as there are some diamonds, there are lottery winners. Displaying a lottery winner doesn't make it prudent to spend your money on lottery tickets. Displaying a diamond's lifestyle doesn't make Amway a good opportunity. While Amway is a business and not a game of chance, the results of either, sadly are eerily similar - that is a few winners and millions of non-winners.

What is so great about the Amway opportunity? I don't see it.

Be Accountable?

 Part of what Joecool perceives as the problem with the Amway opportunity is the utter lack of accountability of upline leaders. They may tell you to trust them, to submit to them and simply copy or duplicate what they have done, and they imply that you will get the same results. Many downlines over the years have put in blood sweat and tears into the business only to suffer massive losses following the system. Upline will then place the blame on the downline. Citing that they either did not try hard enough or they didn't put in enough time and effort, or they didn't do things just right. Despite a shockingly low success rate of system IBOs, nobody seems to fault the system and upline as being flawed. And nobody seems to question whether upline is at fault. It's a game of blaming the victim.

In my observations, I would say that many financial systems are similar. Whether it be BWW, N21, WWDB, real estate gurus or other systems, the success rate is low. Many systems that advertise on television will have a disclaimer that a success testimony is a rare or unique experience. I believe it is similar to the systems in Amway. Dedication or continued spending on the system is not the problem. The problem is often the system itself. It can work for some exceptional people. These people were likely to succeed in other venues anyway. The problem is that is does not work for the majority of people.

The bigger problem, is that for many many years, some uplines have lived high on the hog off of the dedicated tool purchases of their downline. All the while, quesitonable or bad advice was given to the faithful downline. Advice such as quitting a job to attend a function, skipping financial obligations such as the rent or electric bills to buy more tools. One upline even said your family can skip a meal because the standing order may contain the one thing you needed to hear to make your business grow. I have personally seen couples lose their homes and go bankrupt because they followed upline advice. Upline to "has their best interest at heart". Granted, the couple has some culpability in these decisions, but uplines who give this advice seem to get a pass.

Where is the accountability? Some of these uplines who give and gave bad advice, are still active today, and some are still giving bad advice to their downlines. Advice that profits upline and drains downline. Even with valid complaints, it appears that many uplines avoid any accountability. For some, perhaps there is poetic justice, such as diamonds having their homes foreclosed. But as many uplines have nobody to hold them accountable, do you really want to do business with these folks? Would you invest your retirement money with a broker who could not be held accountable? Would you have your car repaired by a shop whose mechanics could not be held accountable? I believe the answer is not to these questions, yet many people are asked to trust and follow the advice of an upline who is not held accountable for their advice.

The system is credited for the few successes that are visible, but the individual is held accountable for any shortcomings or failures. IBOs, I encourage you to hold your upline leaders accountable for the advice they give you. If they won't answer tough questions or take responsibility, then one should wonder why the upline should be given your trust.

Alternatives?

 One of the humorous things that IBOs often bring up is that someone who sees Amway in a critical eye should bring up viable alternatives. I mean if someone prevents you from falling over a cliff, they should have warned you and given you alternatives right? If I recognized you getting conned by a conman, I should find viable financial investments for you before warning you of the potential scam you are about to walk into? It sounds completely ridiculous, but Amway IBOs have actually made those comments on this blog and some other Amway related websites.

Well, let's explore a few anyway just for fun. How about you stay home and do nothing? For most IBOs, you would be better off financially than committing your time and resources into Amway's products and their ineffective training materials and functions. If you are really dedicated to tools, sending your upline a check for $50 monthly and not buying Amway goods or related training materials would make you better off.

A second job where you actually receive a paycheck is a better alternative. While there's no hype and hopes of getting rich in 2-5 years, you can do much for your future by saving a portion of that paycheck each month. If you are young, this especially applies to you. But anyone can help their future by saving and investing. Even someone who pan handles is more likely to have more net cash than most Amway IBOs. The vast majority of business building IBOs actually have a net loss because of the expenses they incur with training materials such as cds and seminars.

Sure, some people do make money in Amway and some make a lot of money. The problem is they make money by exploiting their downlines and those hopeful downlines basically have no hope. In other words, you profit by selling false hope and false dreams. Basically, you can gain wealth in Amway by being a conman. Can you live with yourself in order to profit at any cost? They sell you on Amway as a financial vehicle, but they turn around and tell you that cds, books and functions are the key to success and then make significant profits from those materials whether even if you make nothing or suffer huge business losses.

I haven't even gone into the amount of time lost chasing prospects and attending functions. Your time might be the most valuable commodity that is lost chasing the 2-5 year dream. Ask yourself this question. Where are these diamonds who did the 2-5 year plan living in luxury and doing nothing? I don't know of any/ Do you?

Climbing A Pyramid?

 Let me start out by saying that Amway, at least to the letter of the law, appears to be a perfectly legal company. Therefore, I am not saying or implying that Amway is illegal. But I believe that the way Amway businesses are run, are like pyramids. In most groups, you will have the lowest level IBOs efforts and tool purchases being responsible for the upline bonuses and tools income. Many many IBOs are fooled into thinking that the ability to surpass your upline or that you don't get paid to recruit downline makes this a good deal. Think about it for a bit. Aren't most Amway gatherings about motivation and recruiting?

Unless you have a very very rare group where actual product sales to non-IBOs is sufficient to cover the costs of running your business, functions and all, then it is true that the lower-level IBO's jobs are the primary source of income for the uplines. How many groups are like that where selling is nearly exclusively to retail customers and not downline? None that I have ever seen or know of. In fact, how often do IBOs even sell enough products to cover their expenses for even one month out of the year? The groups that teach "buy from yourself" end up doing the most financial damage to their groups because the downline's expenses are then covered exclusively from the downline's jobs, bank accounts, or drive the downline into debt. 

I've seen and discussed group structures in forums many times and I can only conclude that tool sales easily wipe out what little profits/bonuses some of the downlines might receive. Only when an IBO is able to sponsor enough downline to absorb the losses for them will they finally break even or make a little profit. I would guess that the 4000 PV level or platinum is where a dedicated CORE IBO would break even and possibly start to make a small profit.  On the other hand, a hard CORE dedicated IBO can still lose money at 4000 or at platinum.    But we also know that most platinum groups have 100 or more IBOs in order to generate 7500 PV. Thus, we can also conclude that less than 1% of IBOs make a net profit. The only way IBOs can earn a net profit at a lower level is to avoid purchasing tools and to avoid paying for functions. Those who get involved in a system such as WWDB or N21 almost guarantee that they will have a net loss. 

Sure, my job may have a pyramid structure with the CEO making the most money. But the difference is that in a company, even the lowest paid employee still receives a paycheck and has money at the end of the month. The same claim cannot be made by IBOs. For these reasons, I believe Amway to be a product pyramid. IBOs and information seekers are free to participate, but I challenge them to sit down and really analyze their ability to make a net profit. In most cases, the analysis won't be favorable. If you are in the US in particular, you may have great difficulty in even being able to discuss "Amway" without getting strange looks your way from others. Good luck in whatever you decide

Get Out Of Debt BS?

 One thing that many Amway/WWDB IBOs like to tout is how their upline teaches them to get out of debt. While on the surface that sounds like an awesome thing to do, it's not what WWDB mentors are actually doing. They want to give the appearance that they have your best interest in mind and that they want you to succeed. At least that's what they want you to think. Sadly, many IBOs get sucked into believing this. I will go on to explain why this is and to give prospects and information seekers some food for thought.

If you have an open mind, you will see my point. Prior to someone joining Amway, they most likely didn't buy any Amway products and certainly didn't focus on spending about $200 to $300 monthly on buying household products, especially if they are single people. So how is buying more stuff than you used to, supposed to help you get out of debt? All you are really doing is sacrificing things you used to enjoy spending on Amway stuff. If you actually made a net profit from your Amway business, that might be okay. But most IBOs are making nothing or losing money while being taught to never quit or that success is right around the corner.

If your upline or mentor is teaching you to get out of debt, are they also advising you to invest any "extra" money into investments? Are they teaching you to plan for the future, in case the Amway business doesn't pan out? Are they advising you to save money? More than likely, the answer is "no".

Your upline will be advising you to use any money you have available to invest in tools and functions. WWDB premiere club, download audios (at a charge), standing orders book of the month and attend all functions. You will be advised to do this even if your business has not made a cent in profit. But you say your sponsor or upline loans you tools and pays for your functions? That might be true, but guess what? Once you sponsor someone, you will be the one loaning tools (that you paid for) and/or paying for your downline's functions because with a downline, you are now a "real business owner". It's amazing how so many people get fools into believing that upline wants you out of debt for your own good. Upline wants to out of debt for upline's good. For that reason, you might be told to get to the next big function at any cost, no matter what. That your business will be set back months or years if you miss it. The reality is missing a big function might be your wisest financial decision.

Your upline may want you out of debt, but they more than likely have their own interest at heart and not yours. Look at it objectively and ask your trusted friends who are not in Amway what they believe. This is advice from someone who has no reason to lead anyone astray. I experienced this and fell for the trick as a young and hopeful dreamer. Now I am hopeful that my experience can prevent others from falling into the trap that I fell into.

Don't Quit?

 Never quit!  That's what some uplines will teach new Amway IBOs. They will make anecdotal comparisons about sports champions never quitting. For example, Tiger Woods will never quit in a golf tournament. While this may be true, the golf tournament will end and Tiger will play another day in another tournament. A football player may not quit, but the game will end and they will play another game on another day. The same thing happens in many sports. It's silly to compare a sport to a business in this manner.  Not to mention in sports, the players are worried about income and expenses during a live game or tournament.

When someone says never quit, they mean don't stop trying, but it doesn't necessarily mean never quit Amway or never quit the tools systems. Many business owners at one time, have found themselves in a losing position. At times a business owner may have to make a business decision to close his current business due to lack of business, rent/lease is too high, etc. It doesn't mean that the owner is a quitter. This very same owner may open a new and very different business. That new and different business might be very prosperous.   Don't quit trying is not the same as not quitting a losing business or a losing proposition.

It appears to me, that some uplines use the catch phrase of never quit, and puts a negative label on those who quit Amway, as a means to apply subtle pressure to IBOs. I believe it is because an IBO who quits will not continue to be a customer of their lucrative tools systems. More likely an upline could care less if you succeed or not, as long as you continue to purchase tools. It's why they want people to never quit. Do they assess your business or is this a blanket statement to a large audience?   In my own experience, it was just a blanket statement without individual analysis  of each IBO's business.

IBOs and prospects need to take a critical look at their businesses. Take a look at your income versus your expenditures. Are you netting a profit or are you seeing losses month after month? Another vital factor is whether you are suffering a loss almost exclusively because of the expenses associated with the standing orders and functions? Some uplines will encourage IBOs to ignore facts, or they will try to install hope with talk about success being around the corner, but these teachings are more likely self serving, to get IBOs to continue to buy tools, whether or not it is in the best interest of that IBO. You are an independent business owner and as such, need to make your own decision about taking on expenses if you do not have enough revenue to cover those expenses. 

This message is to provide an insight into the strategy that some uplines employ, simply to keep you in business longer for their (the upline) personal gain.

Amway Works?

 1. The Amway products are too expensive overall to compete with other brands. While IBO's claim high quality, that is subjective and for most consumers, Amway products are not well known and seen as generic in nature with a premium price. Many people consider Amway products "satisfactory" or "average". Some people do enjoy Amway products, but overall in the US market, it clearly indicates that price is a factor and people apparently choose Costco or WalMart to get consumables and cleaning products. Also, person to person advertising is not as effective as national advertising such as Proctor and Gamble. While Amway did some advertising recently, they are too far behind in the game and their spotty reputation precedes them.

2. The Amway compensation plan is very unfair to new IBO's. The new guy does the work but gets only a tiny fraction of the generous bonus Amway pays out. A new IBO who moves 100 PV would get back $10 or so while layers of uplines split up the remaining $90 or so on bonuses generated by the 100 PV. The only way an IBO can increase volume is to sponsor downline and hope that they will also buy into the system and dedicate themselves to moving volume consistently. But this will also fail due to reasons #3 and #4.

3. Amway's reputation is so bad that sponsoring downlline to build a group is nearly impossible. Even getting people to see the plan is a tough sell. It is why building a business without some deception is nearly impossible. It is why many uplines begin to teach that Amway saves marriages, or that you become nicer by building an Amway business, or that the Amway business is about friends and not money. That is a bunch of BS. Business is about making money. If not you have joined a social club. That should be a huge red flag if your upline is teaching you that your Amway business is not about making money. If money wasn't a factor, why do they always show (but not verify) pictures and slide shows depicting untold wealth and luxury? Why do they talk about retiring young? It's all about the money!

4. The uplines push the tools scam on their downline while they make handsome profits from these books, voicemails, standing orders and functions. What's more, these tools do not help an IBO build a business because of the reaons listed above. In fact, I believe that any IBO who actually succeeds, does so in spite of the system and not because of the system. There is zero unbiased evidence to indicate that the system tools have any relationship to IBO success. And most systems are more alike than not, despite what they may claim. Also, any "success" is also not sustainable. The road to Amway riches is littered with former success stories. There are also many former diamonds/ Why would there be any former diamonds if they could collect residual income?

It is for these reasons that I believe Amway is not a good business opportunity for the vast majority of people. When you factor in the system expenses, you nearly assure yourself of a losing proposition. Do the math and do the research. Your conclusion should be clear.

Business Owners?

 Amway IBOS call themselves business owners, but they seemingly know so little about business, despite their all-knowing upline's valuable insights and teaching.  Their knowledge is often clouded by the BS they are fed by their all-knowing upline.  Ironically, many IBOS refer to upline as mentors or coaches.  They see nothing wrong with the massive failures that upline produces and most don’t seem to think it’s a problem that many IBOS blame themselves despite following the paid fir arise that they received from upline.

For example, the upline may sell them on an Amway business by pitching the low cost and low overhead only to have upline later tell them that they need to invest in Amway like any other business.  They are told that Amway can give them quick profits, but when those profits don’t materialize, they are told that business owners often spend 5 years without making net profits.  So they compare Amway to quick profits when it suits them, then says your business is like a conventional business, meaning net profits takes time.  What about the low overhead?   Well, if tools and functions cost more than your entire Amway revenue, what does that tell you?

The reason why IBOS fall for the upline BS is because they really know little to nothing about actually owning and running a business.  They fall for the upline’s apparently faulty advice and although many make an earnest effort to build their business, Amway's business model is flawed, IMO,  and the upline advice is ineffective and flawed as well, sadly, the expenses of running an Amway business and the cost of the system can quickly turn into losses of thousands of dollars or tens of thousands and more, depending on the level of dedication.

The way to get around this is for IBOS to track their income and expenses very closely and to run a profit loss analysis weekly or at least monthly.  If there are no real prospects to increase income or reduce expenses, there is no point in continuing to run an Amway business because the math will tell you all you need to know.   If you attend functions, is there a direct relationship between attendance and increased business income?  If not, then why attend?  Same goes for other tools such as standing orders.

Quitting Amway is a good business decision if there are no profits and no concrete measurable plans to make a profit. Isn’t profit the reason you started an Amway business in the first place?

Bait And Switch?

 Many prospects an even Amway IBOs are apparently unaware that the Amway business along with the insidious "tools" business is a bait and switch scam. Prospects are told that with some part time effort, they can achieve untold wealth and retire early. Many people get "fired up" at the thought of a shortcut to early retirement and wealth beyond their dreams. If the prospect gets excited enough to actually sign up, that's when the bait and switch scam occurs.

You see, if you register to be an Amway IBO and get involved with purchasing support materials such as books, CDs, voice mail and seminar tickets, you think you are on the road to riches as an IBO. Don't feel bad, many people have made this mistake, including myself. But when you register as an Amway IBO, you think you will be an "independent business owner". But nothing can be further from the truth. This is just an illusion that the upline will use on prospects.

When you register for Amway, you actually become a customer of Amway and a customer of the tools business run by upline. YOu purchase products from Amway, and if you purchase enough product, you might receive a rebate of sorts. 100 PV, roughly $300 in cost, will get you a rebate of 3%, or roughly $10. Your 100 PV actually generates about $100 in Amway bonuses, but the remaining $90 goes to your uplines. If you can sponsor downline who also use and/or move products, you can earn a greater percentage of a rebate, but in the end, you are still basically an Amway customer. As an Amway business owner, you can't easily advertise or do things to generate more sales without Amway's permission. You are also at the mercy of Amway in the event of a dispute.

As an Amway IBO, you are also a customer of the tools. Your upline will sell you an endless supply of materials which I listed above. What IBOs also don't know is that these products/tools also carry and larger profit margin than Amway products and, the rank and file IBOs don't get to earn any bonus of the volume of tools. And I might add that the tools may cost more than the cost of your 100 PV worth of products. So you buy in and you get nothing. I might add that the tools are ineffective, otherwise there would be a constant movement of people achieving higher levels.

Sure, Amway apologists will point out all of the new platinums, but they fail to mention that there are also thousands of people who were, but no longer qualify as platinum or higher. Amway sales were at 11.8 billion in 2013 but sales have dropped more than 25% since then, with Amway doing in the neighborhood of 8.5 billion last year.

So for prospects and current IBOs, I hope you realize that you're not really an IBO, but a customer of Amway and a customer of the tools. How many customers do you know of that became wealthy by purchasing things? I can't think of any.